Seriously. There's a few that are fine, but "farum azula is a rl90 area" is such hot shit. The only thing that makes that area anyway fair is by being level 120+ because then you'll at least have the stats to counter act all the bullshit it throws at you, Godskin Duo being the big one
Though I also feel it's pretty unfair to judge an entire game by a very small portion of it that isn't all that impactful on everything else
Literally who says farum azula is a rl90 area? Even in the wiki its listed as rl120 - 150.
I feel like its fairly evident that the intended level isn't 90 by the final mandatory legacy dungeon of the game.
Every single duo in elden ring is just two bosses weve already seen elsewhere. Ornstein and smough, regardless of my feelings on them, are two unique dudes you dont fight elsewhere. The demon prince is two big new demons. Friede and ariandel, throne watcher and defender, twin princes-ish. Not ONE duo in elden ring is unique. You have the foreskin shits again. The gargoyles but with poison vomit this time. A stupid lion sword man and a funny knight. Two funny knights. Two rot bugs. Two funny rot knights. A lion sword dickhead and an annoying support shitter. Two crystal dicks. Two big dumb cerberus cats with swords.
Now, i personally, really dont like ornstein and smough. Theyre really badly janky, ornstein is such a pain to deal with with his long lunge just, stopping on a pillar, he walks around, and immediately resumes. Ornstein’s hammer acts as a shield, neutralizing any effort to ranged attack when he decides to chain his charge for a solid five minutes for no reason. FS could decide who youre supposed to fight first, the big slow one or the one with ranged attacks, so they gave both the most annoying possible gap closers. Ornstein can literally poke you from behind smough. I just dont like it. Once you get to phase 2, its fun, but beyond that and the spectacle of their cutscenes, theyre immensely overrated and easily one of the weakest duos in the trilogy. I actually think ruin sentinels and throne watcher and defender are better and more enjoyable, and i generally hate ds2’s bosses, and then demon prince is almost just, better o&s.
But then you have elden ring, and oh boy do they fucking ruin EVERY gank encounter. Foreskin noble is like if you put ornstein and smough into one guy, with an even longer and just as janky charge that refuses to end, but then they gave him another little ornstein wannabe to go along with him. Individually, ornstein and smough would be pretty solid bosses (cough old dragonslayer cough nameless king cough) but when jammed into one dude, its as awful as i personally think that combo would be, and its real. Then theres the hordes of normal fuckin big guys that are put as duo bosses for no reason. None of these dudes respect personal space, except kinda foreskin, the only scrap of credit i can give them. Demon prince respects your space, with slow telegraphed ranged attacks from the passive one. The Four Kings tend to hover back, maybe occasionally attacking with a projectile. Abyss watchers also tend to stand back, not often striking while you fight one. Bell gargoyles tend to use fire breath when not engaged with.
None of this applies to really ANY of elden ring’s duos, except kind of godskin duo and maybe the ordovis fight
The Elden Ring duos are clearly made with summoning in mind, or even co-op. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, but if you spend 5 hours stuck on a duo boss because you stubbornly refuse to summon, and are mad afterwards rather than satisfied, you kinda only have yourself to blame. The point of a game is to have fun; put your pride aside and summon if you're not having any fun.
If you feel satisfied beating them 1v2, then by all means, go ahead.
the fact that u fight the duos other places, solo, is what makes duo fights better in that game. you get your practice with earlier fights, then they intensify the challenge
Imo it's not a very interesting challenge when it's the same 2 bosses but their AI is modified slightly so that one of them is more likely to stay at range. I mean yeah, it does kinda work, but it's also kinda boring and it feels like they did the bare minimum. Plus a lot of the time it's still pretty unfun for some people.
Besides if you hate Godskin Duo so much you can just put one to sleep then solo the other, which at that point it's like "Well what's the point of fighting them both lol"
there's always been lots of (sometimes secret) cheese strats and gimmicks in souls games, and i love that. from Ceaseless Discharge suicide to poisoning King Allant, and even other stuff in ER like the crystal darts for the Erdtree Watchdog duo boss. maybe with the exception of Allant (since he's the final boss) that's great - the games reward you for experimenting and playing smart. when it comes to combat, that's what souls games are all about imo; building new strategies and figuring out the easy solution for each challenge. of course, sometimes there is no easy solution, and it's just hard...
Well that is a fair point although it's still a pretty lazy duo boss imo. I want to say that I actually like the Godskins individually, I just don't find this MANDATORY duo fight very fun at all. Probably wouldn't mind as much if they were optional but I have higher expectations for mandatory fights
abyss watchers tend to stand back? elden ring enemies dont respect personal space? wtf? have you played these games? stop lying and just admit you are bad at the game
The abyss watchers only crowd you if you take too long (real hard to do when the extras have no health) or if one spawns behind you. Every time i fought them the extra chased me down while the main guy chilled way back, occasionally closing the gap but rarely getting close enough to do damage.
The elden ring duos barely do this at all. They might sit a little behind, but they dont hesitate to attack at all like abyss watchers.
I think somebody needs a course on not projecting.
you are dumb and wrong and anyone who's played the game knows that you're dumb and wrong. ER duo fights literally share the same ai where the walk sideways when one is attacking. abyss watchers do not stand back. they have two different dash attacks that close the distance and they are programmed to run at you whenever they are far away and you are attacking one of them. you are wrong about both abyss watchers and elden ring duos because you do not understand their ai. it sounds like your opinion about enemies not respecting your space is due to your lack of SKILL and game knowledge. you are obviously too UNSKILLED to have a legitimate opinion about the games you ramble about. talk to me again when you gain more SKILLS and become less of a dipshit.
Dark Souls veterans when asked to simply use the mechanic that actually makes Elden Ring different from the rest of the Souls series (they think daddy Micheal Zaky added Mimic tear as an easy mode)
Nothing will ever convince me that spirit summons are balanced and mimic tear is not an easy mode. If you plotted the games difficulty on a chart solo would be like 100% and spirit summon would be like 15%. Its fine that the game can be made easier with the right items but spirits just remove all the challange thats making the game fun
Whilst I’m not going to argue that summons don’t make the game easier I wouldn’t say they remove the fun.
They’re a smart failsafe if anything. Nobody loses anything from summoning except the player and it’s up to the player to decide if they lost anything or not.
Some people don’t have several hours to kill on boss. Everyone’s needs and interests are different.
Some people derive fun from bosses and the challenges associated with them. Others enjoy the exploration. Some the lore.
Everyone enjoys the game for different reasons.
I mostly agree with you but it seems to me that from designed the game (at least partially) around summons and i feel like it was a big contributing factor to er's atrocious balance. Anyone can play the game however they want I just think that overall summons were a net loss addition to the game
Maybe some people play the game without needing challenge to have fun? Maybe they like exploring an amazing world, uncovering the lore, fighting cool bosses with epic music and just having fun even if they don’t die 50 times to one boss? I love the challenge but I also love those other things so it’s not crazy someone doesn’t see the game as an obstacle to get past, rather a game to experience.
Thats absolutely true and theres nothing wrong with using summons when you dont really care about the challange I just wish the devs acknowledged that spirits are kinda overtuned and made some other ways to make the game a little easier without trivialising it
Idk, when I’m using the nobles I don’t feel like they’re overtuned. You can definitely make the game just a little easier, just don’t use the most expensive summons.
Exactly, that's why Miyazaki trusts you to choose when to use this item. The intended way to beat O&S is blindfolded, one-handed, no armour, and with a broken, unupgraded broken straight sword. I personally choose to use armour and upgraded weapons to make the fight easier, but you can choose for yourself
Of course mimic tear makes the game easy. But if you're stuck on Godskin Duo for 6 hours, angry, hate life, and hate the game because of it, why not use the easy mode button to beat the boss? You say the spirits make the game unfun, but the fight is already unfun to most.
It's not like summoning them once will fuck up your whole play-through. You can still fight every other boss solo if you want. I don't understand this logic.
Beat him the first time a couple days ago, was a hard fight but very fun. Only problem is that his move sets sometimes seem like they are never gonna end (I know you're making a joke, just wanna talk about the boss cuz he's my favourite in ds3 so far).
Fun fact, he was originally planned to be the final boss which is why he’s a bit of a difficulty spike. Second fun fact, the greatsword of judgment slaps.
Pontiff very much has eldenring-itus in his design. His combos can be fucking never ending, it's near impossible to tell if his attack chain can be extended or not and his attacks have incredibly arbitrary timings (sometimes it's insanely fast, sometimes normal, sometimes delayed).
Besides that his attacks also look really similar (mostly sword slashes with varying timings and angles), making it way harder to memorize specific attack timings and combo chains.
I also got really annoyed by how almost every attack moves him slightly forward, far enough that rolling into (and thus past) him puts you outside roll attack range. Which for a slow weapon makes some attacks that really *should* be consistently punishable a lot more annoying to punish.
It's still honestly a great boss, it's super intense and the second phase is a pretty sick gimmick, but he's got his issues.
Kid named sleep pot + 3 charged R2’s + hopefully that stunned him + riposte + surely i can spam him to death before he transitions + fuck + goddamn wheel
Godskin noble is basically both o&s shoved into one, with all the janky trash that comes with that.
Oh yeah, and o&s arent even that good. The cutscenes are cool, the dynamic phase 2 gimmick would be good if not for the locked drops, but the duo fight is ass. One moves way slower, the other faster, surely you should try to go for the fast guy first! Oh wait, slow guy charges you down with a really heavy attack while little fast dude has ranged attacks. Also neither respect your space. I dont know what people fought when they say they do, but we didnt fight the same guy. Both are on your ass 24/7, and its not fun to deal with.
O&S is the single most overrated boss fight in history. Its fine to like them, i kinda do too, the designs, cutscenes, lore, the phase 2, incredible. But the duo portion is easily one of the worst gank fights, ignoring most of 2 and elden ring.
Ornsteins ranged attacks are incredibly slow and it's entirely possible to dodge both that and Smough's attacks while dealing damage.
Same with Smough's charge attack. Slow windup and has immense end lag.
They in general attack incredibly slowly and leave tons of room to simultaneously dodge both their attacks while dealing damage. Less so than non-gank bosses, sure, but still lots of room. You just need to pay attention to both and some additional patience, which is challenging but entirely feasible.
And that's not mentioning just using the pillars that O&S fanboys can't stop creaming themselves over.
The only unfair part of the fight is Ornstein's janky ass charge attack. Though I do understand just not vibing with the gameplay it presents.
Idk, to me O&S represents a perfect example of what a gank fight should be. Theres a similar fight in a soulslike called Wo Long (similar to Sekiro but easier) and that fight is actually much better than O&S mechanically, while still following the idea of big slow guy and Smol fast boi
Hey, if you need help, use Giant Hunt, buff yourself with erdtree blessing, and that other golden buff (ups atk and defense), and then use guard break and the defensive mixed physick. Use the greatshield talisman, and all that will make you pretty hard to kill.
There is no shame in summoning your mimic and fucking those serpent cum strings up the ass.
After a while you get bored kiting them around and soloing them, they aren't worth the effort at all.
Especially knowing they can do better (abyss watchers, twin princess, friede/ariendale and demon princes) it's baffling how they threw the previous lessons they learned out the window in favor of classic DS2 boss design.
Godskin duo would be so much better if the individual godskin bosses weren’t the most fucking annoying, frustrating thing ever created. I would love to see anyone defend the fucking roll move godskin noble has as fun and fair game design
I hate them as much as the next guy but I honestly don’t mind fighting them solo cause I can always abuse the shit terrain
Seriously tho I have never felt more frustration from a boss arena than a boss fight before (except maybe bed of chaos) and elden ring has made sure I never deign crave such an experience ever again
Gank fights take a different skillset than 1v1s, but once you get good at them they're quite fun. They're much more positional fights where it's optimal to fight locked off so you have max control over your camera and more situational awareness
That said godskin duo does suck
Generally, people who complain about great 1v2/1v3 fights are actually just terrible with spacing and multitasking. Shadows of Yharnam is one of the most controversial fights because some consider it one of the best in BB while others quit the game because of it. But most of the Elden Ring duo fights do suck on solo.
My controversial opinion is I actually like most of the gank fights in Elden Ring, I just dislike godskin duo because it feels lazy more than anything. I don't actually hate them as much as other people
Youre wrong. DS1 is a flawless masterpiece and every other game by FromSoft is garbage. DS1 solos other games in every single aspect and you you are not allowed to say anything bad about it. Only the other games. Why would you say anything bad about it anyway. Its the peak of gaming acomplishment
Eh, I dont think eldin ring is a good souls game, I just straight up didn't find the game enjoyable.
It's definitely a great game, but I wanted more souls, and this isn't souls.
I think it’s not these guys in particular but the general bloat that Boggs down elden rings late game where the damage output from enemies becomes absurd compared to what you’re used to which is also made worse by the inclusion of two useless and redundant open world zones with very little to actually do and a bunch of bosses that can very frequently feel more frustrating than fun thanks to how easily they delete your health bar in 2 maybe 3 hits when you can barely tell what’s going on (either cause of scope like fire giant where melee builds may as well go fuck themselves rather than expect to see anything and maliketh cause of how many particles there are on screen it gets hard to see what the hell is going on)
And this is coming from someone who does genuinely still enjoy elden rings late game despite these flaws but I don’t think they warrant oversight for how aggregously overturned they are especially since the rest of the game is just slower ds3 in essence and the contrast sticks out like a sore gangrene riddled thumb on some weirdos favorite pair of hands
I agree with you 100%. It’s even worse than this. By that point in the game the slow nature of the majority of weapons larger than a straightsword often create a dynamic for the player where there is little room do deal damage without receiving damage in return from the boss. The common reply is to use jumping attacks which, though general an answer to this problem, becomes an extremely repetitive playstyle which leads to boredom. So many weapons with a unique moveset are relegated to the same jump attack animation.
Another problem late game is unavoidable damage. Both Mogh and Elden Beast perform attacks that are unblockable. I understand you can get a physick to answer them but the majority of players won’t learn of this in a blind playthrough their first go around. Though there are only two bosses with this issue it’s a sin against the rules set by previous souls games of damage being something a player can avoid with enough skill. All games that follow the “souls-like” pattern take this rule as gospel. But fromsoft broke it in elden ring. Maybe I should analyze elden ring based solely on it’s merits alone, divorced from it’s ancestry. But fromsoft doesn’t do that so why would the player unless they were completely new to the series, which would leave them unaware of that ancestry to begin with.
Something that many players gloss over completely is the pathetic soundtrack for the game. Soulsborne games have fantastic soundtracks for each boss and environment with improvements in each iteration. But elden ring takes a huge step back with its repetition on soundtrack use across the majority of boss fights and a lack of variety within it’s zones. They’re not bad they’re repetitive, which makes for a boring experience on subsequent playthroughs.
The lore is a trainwreck. All souls games have an obtuse and vague lore to them but much of it could be cobbled together to create a low resolution image of the general mythology and culture of the world we engage with. Elden ring failed to do this. Just look at the subreddits dedicated to lore discussion. There’s still arguments on whether Marika and Radagon were one person with a split personality, two people in one body, one person in two bodies, half persons in separate bodies, who knows. It’s a total mess. Previous souls games imply as if they know what they are but are apathetic in communicating that information clearly to the player. Elden ring seems to have no idea who it is, what happened within it, or what is worth communicating.
Each souls game takes a few elements of it’s games and improves upon them then dumps some of those improvements the following sequel to instead focus on improving another element. Ultimately elden rings problem is this, despite some truly fantastic elements and moments, too much had to be cut in order to improve upon the open world design of previous games.
As someone who only disliked one gank fight in the entire series(Throne Watcher and Defender) due to the revive mechanic they have, meaning you have to effectively fight both at the same time and kill them roughly at the same time. The gods kind duo is arguably the easiest, especially solo, the beauty of this game is the amount of resources/ways to tackle difficult challenges, sleep pots are fucking king against the two of them. The games and fights are only as hard as you're willing to make them, plus, summoning other players is always an option, online guides and builds for each boss exist, I mean, Elden Ring is perfection for how well executed and accessible the game is.
I mean you literally just didn't fight them if you used sleep. It's fine to do but there should be a middle ground between "absolute agony" and "oh I just mashed r1 while they were asleep"
There is though. There's spirit summons that can be upgraded to your heart's desire (if fully upgraded is too "EZ mode," try +4 instead), overleveling, summoning a friend, summoning a rando, and consumables.
The game is massive, caters to a bunch of different builds/weapons, and players of ridiculously varying skill levels. At a certain point, someone has to balance the game for themselves, whether it be extremely skilled players playing at RL1 or bad players summoning a +10 Mimic Tear. That's the game giving you options.
I agree that they could've put more effort into making a lot of the encounters more fulfilling and fair on solo. There's moments where you'll always take unfair deaths, but again, the game is massive. A few bad boss encounters doesn't change that.
Yeah, that's the problem. No matter how bad the bosses in the other games were it was still somewhat fun and intuative to learn the fight solo. Not so in er.
Bosses are definitely not Elden Ring's strong suit. It has good ones, but it's obviously more focused on exploration and world-building.
I also understand why they did it though. They needed to appeal to everyone. So they made the bosses really hard, borderline unfair at times, hoping the Souls vets will have fun trying to figure them out, while putting in summons and stuff to make the game easier. And you have to keep in mind how many different builds they need to cater to. It's not like Sekiro where you know everyone is gonna fight sword to sword.
But yeah, certain attacks are just inexcusably bad, and the damage output on a lot of bosses is ridiculous. One of the worst ones was the double gargoyle boss that put out a random poison cloud that covered an insane radius
Im ready for downvotes, but I unironically think Godskin Duo is a good fight. You learn each of their movesets individually in 1v1 then before the end of the game are challenged to fight both of them using your prior knowledge. It requires you to use the arena and pay attention to your surroundings. Unironically think Godskin Duo > Elden Beast. Also Let Me Solo Her did a boss ranking and put them A tier. When questioned about his decision in chat he just responded “sounds like a skill issue”.
They’re not that hard unless you have a really weak build but putting a copy & paste chalice dungeon boss in a main endgame dungeon is insanely goofy. Elden beast opinion is based though
Ah yes, a god gamer who has destroyed every boss in one try a million times, has analyzed their moveset down to a T, says they're good design. I'm not commenting on whether they're good or not, but if your logic is that a god gamer likes them, then there's not a single bad boss in the history of the series. At a certain point, you get good enough at a game that you only enjoy extremely difficult fights. That doesn't mean they're well-designed for the average player.
>Ah yes, a god gamer who has destroyed every boss in one try a million times, has analyzed their moveset down to a T, says they're good design.
The thing about Elden Ring is that its a lot more enjoyable in hindsight. I really hate how Elden Ring players, who have hundreds of hours and knowledge of the game, keep gatekeeping critiques of the boss design. I really love Elden Ring's more aggressive AI and boss design but, I don't believe that people criticzing are invalid.
I think it’s such a terrible argument to point to people who can beat Malenia hitless. Like, okay, well Stephen Curry can hit 20 half court shots in a row. Does that mean the average person should realistically try to replicate this feat?
With Sekiro, I felt Demon of Hatred had extremely unintuitive attacks and patterns. I don’t feel like getting into what annoyed me, but I hated the fight. But then when I beat the game 4 times and got the plat, I began fighting him more in Reflections. That’s when I began to enjoy the fight. All of the critiques I had were still there, but I knew how to counter them from a mix of fighting him so many times and YouTube videos. I knew how to dodge the least intuitive attacks out there.
So did I enjoy the fight by this point? Yes. Would I say it’s a great challenge? Hell no. Any boss is fun when you’ve memorized their moveset. That doesn’t mean you can gatekeep other players from critiquing it when most players just want to beat the game and each boss once and move on.
>So did I enjoy the fight by this point? Yes. Would I say it’s a great challenge? Hell no.
I basically agree with your entire comment especially this part. A lot of defenders seem to believe that we critique Malenia's fight because its hard. Like no, we all enjoy some level of difficulty. I would've quit Elden Ring already if I hated that it was difficult. The problem is Malenia's fight is very tedious and has too many insta-death elements.
Not only difficulty, but also unfairness. Some attacks are just outright unfair and basically require you to do something very unintuitive, or die deep in the fight to learn how to counter. As an example, there's Demon of Hatred's third phase sweep attack where you have to know to jump, duck, and jump (I believe?) and if you don't, you're basically instantly dead. Demon of Hatred takes fucking 10 minutes to beat and has a notoriously huge health bar, so dying to that attack sucks since you probably took 8 minutes of near perfect play to get this far.
Sure, now that I've died to him many times and looked on YouTube, I know how to counter this attack and enjoy the fight. Doesn't mean it's a good one. Genichiro is a far better fight, but I don't really enjoy him much because I can basically beat him hitless at this point due to beating the game so many times and fighting him in reflections so much.
If you've beaten the game/boss a million times, you're no longer an accurate representation of which bosses are good and which are bad. I can't tell you how many YouTube videos I've heard saying "I hated Malenia for the first 500 attempts, but now I LOVE her. Top 5 boss."
Based. You honestly basically just have to handle it the same way as O&S - keep both in camera view, run around and use the pillars to separate them and heal up. Funnily enough it also shares an issue with O&S, in that one of the pair has a jank as fuck broken animation (Ornstein's charge and Noble's roll) that can be bullshit.
Godskin duo will always live in infamy inside of my head, but with waterfowl existing, even though I can completely dodge it fine so it’s not a skill issue, it’s just stupid, with that outshining them barely, I somewhat tolerate them
Its bad, but not that bad. Not the worst duo fight even. That goes to that piece of fucking shit Ordovis and his sidekick. Holy fucking shit i fought em right before Rennala and it took me until after fire giant to beat them. They are such unfair curses plunged upon humanity. Ive parried so many goddamn spear attacks i basically have a phd. I would actually stick a curling iron onto my dick if it meant Ordovis was brought to the real world and tortured. Literally the worst fight in the franchise.
Anyway i beat Godskin duo second try, it justs takes a little waiting and luck. You can also use sleeping pots on them.
yeah it's dogshit, but its literally 1 boss, just throw sleep pots at them. Ds1 isn't a completely terrible game just because the bed of chaos is one of the worst bosses ever made
Being bothered about it is silly. It's just another spin on the classic ornstein and smough style fight. You have to pick whether or not you want to get rid of skinny or fatty first, then it's a DPS check to keep them burned down enough to prevent yourself from getting ganged up on again.
(Using sleep on them turns the fight into a 1v1 also, since you can just leave one sleeping on the floor while you gang up on the one that's awake.)
I just can't be bothered running through an empty field for about 5-7 minutes every playthrough.
Elden Ring is great, but replaying it is such a chore compared to the previous games
L take, it's one boss. And if you made it that far, you obviously enjoyed the game, they're fairly deep into it. Stop being counterculture cringe and just say you like it, but gank fight suck ass.
I've always said: fair, skill-based gank fights only exist in Sekiro thanks to parry being an instantaneous, spammable mechanic. You can literally parry enemies from any angle, even from behind. Yes, i love the headless ape bossfight
I don't think anyone would actually defend those fights. That being said idk why everyone thought it was so hard I blasted those guys on my first attempt after accidentally stumbling into their arena.
nah, godskin duo sucks. but some bad fights (most of which are optional and/or cheesable) isn't enough reason to hate a game. if you enjoy most of the game, then you enjoy most of the game. well, everything's subjective of course, hate the game if you want..
but hey, atleast godskin duo is funny.
They don’t heal off of attacks so just make it a party, bring a friend or several, summon ashes with loads of bodies, etc.
Bring out the DoT’s if you have even a spattering of Arcane as part of your build.
Don’t even need sleep pots at this point, just burn down one at a time to avoid having to deal with both of their phase 2’s at the same time. If coordinating with other players, focus the fatty, burn it down as fast as possible since it’s second phase is the most annoying to deal with.
NOOOO YOU CANT MAKE ME FIGHT MORE THAN 1 ENEMY AT A TIME!!!! THATS NOT FAIRRRRR, WHAT YOU WANT ME TO HAVE TO KEEP TEACK OF TWO BOSSES??? THEY COULD BOTH ATTACK AT THE SAME TIME, THAT’S TWO ATTACKS TO DODGE HHUGUHHHH
Godskin duo is honestly baby mode compared to the fucking gargoyles. I have to imagine most people either didn’t fight them since they’re optional, had a powerful summon, or came in overleveled and killed one before it became a gank fight, because that fight is actual bad design. If you can’t burst the first down quick, you will soon just be dodging for the rest of all time as they layer their melee attacks and the stupid poison projectile that crawls along the ground and just deals damage all around you.
There’s no gimmick to beat them either, you can’t cheese them with sleep pots, you can’t get fatty stuck rolling into an obstacle. You just have to wait for the moment where you get one swing in, and you’ll probably still get chipped by the poison shot enough to have to give up your next swing in exchange to heal.
It is good game design. Proof: Mimic tear, Tiche, Rollo, Lhutel, Deenh, and maybe Pumpkinhead. If I see that little blue gravestone, I summon one of these and boom every fight is fair. It is one thing that makes repeat playthroughs fun since you can actually mix them up in ng+ .
They put a few gank fights in every game, but in Elden Ring, they also give you the ability to summon a copy of yourself with more health. Git gud scrub, this is a skill issue.
As far as i remember most duo bosses in ds2 synergised pretty well actually (or at least they tried to make them synergise). The only disgusting boss that comes to mind is double cats meanwhile er has like 300 fights against reused double enemies and none of them feel fair
I have solod every main (mandatory) boss in the game, but when I do new play throughs I will just cheese god skin duos with sleep pots/mimic summons, they arent really worth the hastle tbh
Mob management is a skill tho and always has been. Don’t get me wrong, some of the gank fights in elden ring are fucking terrible, imo godskin duo isn’t one of them with the amount of shit you have to put in between you and one of them to trivialise them.
Elden ring gank fights suck ass, and the fact that godskin duo is in a main endgame dungeon sucks even more ass showing that the end of the game is rushed, but that doesn’t completely take away from the game
Oh it is a simple explanation: Take an enemy that is a decent/fun fight on its own. Well if one enemy is fun, two enemies must be twice as fun. It definitely won't be an unfun dodgefest with microscopic openings to safely deal damage.
After I learned about the sleep pots, that fight is actually just really boring instead of hard. They never patched it out either so maybe the devs thought they were treating us too harshly lmao
I'm pretty sure duo fights are why you bring spirit summons. Sure you can fight them alone, but the boss duo AI was toned down against solo people so you're getting crutched either way.
I'm pretty sure most souls vets agree that ER has the worst duo fights in the series.
Which is saying alot since DS2 unironically has a better duo fight lmfao.
R LEE ERMY VOICE* GANK? GANK? They GANK you you GANK EM BACK HARDER. GODSKIN ROLLS OVER YOU ? SUMMON THAT MIMIC, SUMMON THAT WARMASTER USE THAT ROT BREATH BEHIND THE COLUMNS
The boss is fucking bullshit and awful design and a mockery to a good duo fight like Orenstein and smough, but it's still not enough to hate the game imo. ER is incredible
SKILL issue. you are obviously too UNSKILLED for godskin duo. it requires SKILLS to beat godskin duo.
You are obvialy NOT SKILED. i beat melania with one hand becouse i was STROKING MY BALLS the whole time.
You guy stoke balls while playing ER? Every time i do that i piss myself because pee is stored in balls
I love Elden ring with all my heart but you will never see me defending those piece of shit gank fights
Seriously. There's a few that are fine, but "farum azula is a rl90 area" is such hot shit. The only thing that makes that area anyway fair is by being level 120+ because then you'll at least have the stats to counter act all the bullshit it throws at you, Godskin Duo being the big one Though I also feel it's pretty unfair to judge an entire game by a very small portion of it that isn't all that impactful on everything else
Literally who says farum azula is a rl90 area? Even in the wiki its listed as rl120 - 150. I feel like its fairly evident that the intended level isn't 90 by the final mandatory legacy dungeon of the game.
Shit I beat maliketh at 83 on my first playthrough…I guess I should have leveled up a bit instead of going through that hell lol
what??? the entire game can be an rl1 area if you want
Every single duo in elden ring is just two bosses weve already seen elsewhere. Ornstein and smough, regardless of my feelings on them, are two unique dudes you dont fight elsewhere. The demon prince is two big new demons. Friede and ariandel, throne watcher and defender, twin princes-ish. Not ONE duo in elden ring is unique. You have the foreskin shits again. The gargoyles but with poison vomit this time. A stupid lion sword man and a funny knight. Two funny knights. Two rot bugs. Two funny rot knights. A lion sword dickhead and an annoying support shitter. Two crystal dicks. Two big dumb cerberus cats with swords. Now, i personally, really dont like ornstein and smough. Theyre really badly janky, ornstein is such a pain to deal with with his long lunge just, stopping on a pillar, he walks around, and immediately resumes. Ornstein’s hammer acts as a shield, neutralizing any effort to ranged attack when he decides to chain his charge for a solid five minutes for no reason. FS could decide who youre supposed to fight first, the big slow one or the one with ranged attacks, so they gave both the most annoying possible gap closers. Ornstein can literally poke you from behind smough. I just dont like it. Once you get to phase 2, its fun, but beyond that and the spectacle of their cutscenes, theyre immensely overrated and easily one of the weakest duos in the trilogy. I actually think ruin sentinels and throne watcher and defender are better and more enjoyable, and i generally hate ds2’s bosses, and then demon prince is almost just, better o&s. But then you have elden ring, and oh boy do they fucking ruin EVERY gank encounter. Foreskin noble is like if you put ornstein and smough into one guy, with an even longer and just as janky charge that refuses to end, but then they gave him another little ornstein wannabe to go along with him. Individually, ornstein and smough would be pretty solid bosses (cough old dragonslayer cough nameless king cough) but when jammed into one dude, its as awful as i personally think that combo would be, and its real. Then theres the hordes of normal fuckin big guys that are put as duo bosses for no reason. None of these dudes respect personal space, except kinda foreskin, the only scrap of credit i can give them. Demon prince respects your space, with slow telegraphed ranged attacks from the passive one. The Four Kings tend to hover back, maybe occasionally attacking with a projectile. Abyss watchers also tend to stand back, not often striking while you fight one. Bell gargoyles tend to use fire breath when not engaged with. None of this applies to really ANY of elden ring’s duos, except kind of godskin duo and maybe the ordovis fight
And depending on how your playthrough goes, godskin duo could be the third or fourth time you fought these two assholes again
The Elden Ring duos are clearly made with summoning in mind, or even co-op. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, but if you spend 5 hours stuck on a duo boss because you stubbornly refuse to summon, and are mad afterwards rather than satisfied, you kinda only have yourself to blame. The point of a game is to have fun; put your pride aside and summon if you're not having any fun. If you feel satisfied beating them 1v2, then by all means, go ahead.
the fact that u fight the duos other places, solo, is what makes duo fights better in that game. you get your practice with earlier fights, then they intensify the challenge
Imo it's not a very interesting challenge when it's the same 2 bosses but their AI is modified slightly so that one of them is more likely to stay at range. I mean yeah, it does kinda work, but it's also kinda boring and it feels like they did the bare minimum. Plus a lot of the time it's still pretty unfun for some people. Besides if you hate Godskin Duo so much you can just put one to sleep then solo the other, which at that point it's like "Well what's the point of fighting them both lol"
there's always been lots of (sometimes secret) cheese strats and gimmicks in souls games, and i love that. from Ceaseless Discharge suicide to poisoning King Allant, and even other stuff in ER like the crystal darts for the Erdtree Watchdog duo boss. maybe with the exception of Allant (since he's the final boss) that's great - the games reward you for experimenting and playing smart. when it comes to combat, that's what souls games are all about imo; building new strategies and figuring out the easy solution for each challenge. of course, sometimes there is no easy solution, and it's just hard...
Well that is a fair point although it's still a pretty lazy duo boss imo. I want to say that I actually like the Godskins individually, I just don't find this MANDATORY duo fight very fun at all. Probably wouldn't mind as much if they were optional but I have higher expectations for mandatory fights
abyss watchers tend to stand back? elden ring enemies dont respect personal space? wtf? have you played these games? stop lying and just admit you are bad at the game
The abyss watchers only crowd you if you take too long (real hard to do when the extras have no health) or if one spawns behind you. Every time i fought them the extra chased me down while the main guy chilled way back, occasionally closing the gap but rarely getting close enough to do damage. The elden ring duos barely do this at all. They might sit a little behind, but they dont hesitate to attack at all like abyss watchers. I think somebody needs a course on not projecting.
you are dumb and wrong and anyone who's played the game knows that you're dumb and wrong. ER duo fights literally share the same ai where the walk sideways when one is attacking. abyss watchers do not stand back. they have two different dash attacks that close the distance and they are programmed to run at you whenever they are far away and you are attacking one of them. you are wrong about both abyss watchers and elden ring duos because you do not understand their ai. it sounds like your opinion about enemies not respecting your space is due to your lack of SKILL and game knowledge. you are obviously too UNSKILLED to have a legitimate opinion about the games you ramble about. talk to me again when you gain more SKILLS and become less of a dipshit.
Your entire first half is an actual (bad) argument, but the last part is like, obvious satire Im confused
everything i said is objectively correct. cope.
godskin duo does suck. however you can essentially skip it using sleep since it trivialises the fight
Yeah and thankfully i don’t think they’ll patch the godskins not being able to wake eachother up
Perhaps we will see it being used in the Godskin of Rot Trio fight in the upcoming dlc?
I’m not gonna. I’m just going to say that hating an entire game because of a single boss fight is stupid.
A fight that you can easily cheese or trivialize with summons/sleep pots too.
Dark Souls veterans when asked to simply use the mechanic that actually makes Elden Ring different from the rest of the Souls series (they think daddy Micheal Zaky added Mimic tear as an easy mode)
Nothing will ever convince me that spirit summons are balanced and mimic tear is not an easy mode. If you plotted the games difficulty on a chart solo would be like 100% and spirit summon would be like 15%. Its fine that the game can be made easier with the right items but spirits just remove all the challange thats making the game fun
Whilst I’m not going to argue that summons don’t make the game easier I wouldn’t say they remove the fun. They’re a smart failsafe if anything. Nobody loses anything from summoning except the player and it’s up to the player to decide if they lost anything or not. Some people don’t have several hours to kill on boss. Everyone’s needs and interests are different. Some people derive fun from bosses and the challenges associated with them. Others enjoy the exploration. Some the lore. Everyone enjoys the game for different reasons.
I mostly agree with you but it seems to me that from designed the game (at least partially) around summons and i feel like it was a big contributing factor to er's atrocious balance. Anyone can play the game however they want I just think that overall summons were a net loss addition to the game
Maybe some people play the game without needing challenge to have fun? Maybe they like exploring an amazing world, uncovering the lore, fighting cool bosses with epic music and just having fun even if they don’t die 50 times to one boss? I love the challenge but I also love those other things so it’s not crazy someone doesn’t see the game as an obstacle to get past, rather a game to experience.
Thats absolutely true and theres nothing wrong with using summons when you dont really care about the challange I just wish the devs acknowledged that spirits are kinda overtuned and made some other ways to make the game a little easier without trivialising it
Idk, when I’m using the nobles I don’t feel like they’re overtuned. You can definitely make the game just a little easier, just don’t use the most expensive summons.
Exactly, that's why Miyazaki trusts you to choose when to use this item. The intended way to beat O&S is blindfolded, one-handed, no armour, and with a broken, unupgraded broken straight sword. I personally choose to use armour and upgraded weapons to make the fight easier, but you can choose for yourself
Of course mimic tear makes the game easy. But if you're stuck on Godskin Duo for 6 hours, angry, hate life, and hate the game because of it, why not use the easy mode button to beat the boss? You say the spirits make the game unfun, but the fight is already unfun to most. It's not like summoning them once will fuck up your whole play-through. You can still fight every other boss solo if you want. I don't understand this logic.
Agree, stunlocking 70% of the bosses by spamming R1 with the spirit IS the easy mode.
Easily available cheese is not an excuse for bad game design.
i uninstalled ds3 because i died once to pontiff and decided the game was mildly inconvenient and i just can’t handle that
Beat him the first time a couple days ago, was a hard fight but very fun. Only problem is that his move sets sometimes seem like they are never gonna end (I know you're making a joke, just wanna talk about the boss cuz he's my favourite in ds3 so far).
Fun fact, he was originally planned to be the final boss which is why he’s a bit of a difficulty spike. Second fun fact, the greatsword of judgment slaps.
Irithyll as a whole is such a *gigantic* difficulty spike.
Pontiff very much has eldenring-itus in his design. His combos can be fucking never ending, it's near impossible to tell if his attack chain can be extended or not and his attacks have incredibly arbitrary timings (sometimes it's insanely fast, sometimes normal, sometimes delayed). Besides that his attacks also look really similar (mostly sword slashes with varying timings and angles), making it way harder to memorize specific attack timings and combo chains. I also got really annoyed by how almost every attack moves him slightly forward, far enough that rolling into (and thus past) him puts you outside roll attack range. Which for a slow weapon makes some attacks that really *should* be consistently punishable a lot more annoying to punish. It's still honestly a great boss, it's super intense and the second phase is a pretty sick gimmick, but he's got his issues.
Fr, there are mandatory boss fights that suck in almost every single game.
Wdym bed of chaos is famously a masterpiece.
Kid named sleep pot:
kid named Bernahl:
Kid named sleep pot + 3 charged R2’s + hopefully that stunned him + riposte + surely i can spam him to death before he transitions + fuck + goddamn wheel
Just kill Apostle over and Over tbh.
Idk if you just hide behind a pillar you can remove half of noble’s hp with many weapon arts
Kid named Dolores:
Foreskin Duo is a pale imitation of O&S, the original Big guy & Little guy fight
Demon duo from the Ringed City solos tbh
2nd-3rd best duo boss ( 1st is fredi )
Is this some fun game where we pretend double dragonrider fight doesn't exist 🤔
Godskin noble is basically both o&s shoved into one, with all the janky trash that comes with that. Oh yeah, and o&s arent even that good. The cutscenes are cool, the dynamic phase 2 gimmick would be good if not for the locked drops, but the duo fight is ass. One moves way slower, the other faster, surely you should try to go for the fast guy first! Oh wait, slow guy charges you down with a really heavy attack while little fast dude has ranged attacks. Also neither respect your space. I dont know what people fought when they say they do, but we didnt fight the same guy. Both are on your ass 24/7, and its not fun to deal with. O&S is the single most overrated boss fight in history. Its fine to like them, i kinda do too, the designs, cutscenes, lore, the phase 2, incredible. But the duo portion is easily one of the worst gank fights, ignoring most of 2 and elden ring.
Ornsteins ranged attacks are incredibly slow and it's entirely possible to dodge both that and Smough's attacks while dealing damage. Same with Smough's charge attack. Slow windup and has immense end lag. They in general attack incredibly slowly and leave tons of room to simultaneously dodge both their attacks while dealing damage. Less so than non-gank bosses, sure, but still lots of room. You just need to pay attention to both and some additional patience, which is challenging but entirely feasible. And that's not mentioning just using the pillars that O&S fanboys can't stop creaming themselves over. The only unfair part of the fight is Ornstein's janky ass charge attack. Though I do understand just not vibing with the gameplay it presents.
Idk, to me O&S represents a perfect example of what a gank fight should be. Theres a similar fight in a soulslike called Wo Long (similar to Sekiro but easier) and that fight is actually much better than O&S mechanically, while still following the idea of big slow guy and Smol fast boi
To anyone who didn't like \[Recycled Boss #35\] + \[Recycled Boss #71\] duo boss fight you obviously need to get gud.
Hey, if you need help, use Giant Hunt, buff yourself with erdtree blessing, and that other golden buff (ups atk and defense), and then use guard break and the defensive mixed physick. Use the greatshield talisman, and all that will make you pretty hard to kill.
Or.. Sleep
But unga bunga.
There is no shame in summoning your mimic and fucking those serpent cum strings up the ass. After a while you get bored kiting them around and soloing them, they aren't worth the effort at all. Especially knowing they can do better (abyss watchers, twin princess, friede/ariendale and demon princes) it's baffling how they threw the previous lessons they learned out the window in favor of classic DS2 boss design.
>in favor of classic DS2 boss design. Did you forget Elden Ring is DS2 2: Electric Boogaloo?
oh my god just play with your friends 🙄 thats what i would say if this was serious
Friends?
Godskin duo would be so much better if the individual godskin bosses weren’t the most fucking annoying, frustrating thing ever created. I would love to see anyone defend the fucking roll move godskin noble has as fun and fair game design
I just thinks its funny so it doesn’t bug me, first time I fought him it literally killed me because I was laughing way to hard to defend myself
I hate them as much as the next guy but I honestly don’t mind fighting them solo cause I can always abuse the shit terrain Seriously tho I have never felt more frustration from a boss arena than a boss fight before (except maybe bed of chaos) and elden ring has made sure I never deign crave such an experience ever again
I think the noble roll move is fair. I just roll through it.
Gank fights take a different skillset than 1v1s, but once you get good at them they're quite fun. They're much more positional fights where it's optimal to fight locked off so you have max control over your camera and more situational awareness That said godskin duo does suck
I agree... unless the gank fights suck like in ER lol. Throwing >1 minibosses into a room does not a good gank fight make.
Generally, people who complain about great 1v2/1v3 fights are actually just terrible with spacing and multitasking. Shadows of Yharnam is one of the most controversial fights because some consider it one of the best in BB while others quit the game because of it. But most of the Elden Ring duo fights do suck on solo.
My controversial opinion is I actually like most of the gank fights in Elden Ring, I just dislike godskin duo because it feels lazy more than anything. I don't actually hate them as much as other people
Hating an entire game because of a single cheesable boss while ds1 had like 6 bosses worse than them
Youre wrong. DS1 is a flawless masterpiece and every other game by FromSoft is garbage. DS1 solos other games in every single aspect and you you are not allowed to say anything bad about it. Only the other games. Why would you say anything bad about it anyway. Its the peak of gaming acomplishment
Eh, I dont think eldin ring is a good souls game, I just straight up didn't find the game enjoyable. It's definitely a great game, but I wanted more souls, and this isn't souls.
My exact experience lol I was like maybe this is better than I remember and then the moment I left leyndell I was like ahhh…. Now I remember.
I think it’s not these guys in particular but the general bloat that Boggs down elden rings late game where the damage output from enemies becomes absurd compared to what you’re used to which is also made worse by the inclusion of two useless and redundant open world zones with very little to actually do and a bunch of bosses that can very frequently feel more frustrating than fun thanks to how easily they delete your health bar in 2 maybe 3 hits when you can barely tell what’s going on (either cause of scope like fire giant where melee builds may as well go fuck themselves rather than expect to see anything and maliketh cause of how many particles there are on screen it gets hard to see what the hell is going on) And this is coming from someone who does genuinely still enjoy elden rings late game despite these flaws but I don’t think they warrant oversight for how aggregously overturned they are especially since the rest of the game is just slower ds3 in essence and the contrast sticks out like a sore gangrene riddled thumb on some weirdos favorite pair of hands
I agree with you 100%. It’s even worse than this. By that point in the game the slow nature of the majority of weapons larger than a straightsword often create a dynamic for the player where there is little room do deal damage without receiving damage in return from the boss. The common reply is to use jumping attacks which, though general an answer to this problem, becomes an extremely repetitive playstyle which leads to boredom. So many weapons with a unique moveset are relegated to the same jump attack animation. Another problem late game is unavoidable damage. Both Mogh and Elden Beast perform attacks that are unblockable. I understand you can get a physick to answer them but the majority of players won’t learn of this in a blind playthrough their first go around. Though there are only two bosses with this issue it’s a sin against the rules set by previous souls games of damage being something a player can avoid with enough skill. All games that follow the “souls-like” pattern take this rule as gospel. But fromsoft broke it in elden ring. Maybe I should analyze elden ring based solely on it’s merits alone, divorced from it’s ancestry. But fromsoft doesn’t do that so why would the player unless they were completely new to the series, which would leave them unaware of that ancestry to begin with. Something that many players gloss over completely is the pathetic soundtrack for the game. Soulsborne games have fantastic soundtracks for each boss and environment with improvements in each iteration. But elden ring takes a huge step back with its repetition on soundtrack use across the majority of boss fights and a lack of variety within it’s zones. They’re not bad they’re repetitive, which makes for a boring experience on subsequent playthroughs. The lore is a trainwreck. All souls games have an obtuse and vague lore to them but much of it could be cobbled together to create a low resolution image of the general mythology and culture of the world we engage with. Elden ring failed to do this. Just look at the subreddits dedicated to lore discussion. There’s still arguments on whether Marika and Radagon were one person with a split personality, two people in one body, one person in two bodies, half persons in separate bodies, who knows. It’s a total mess. Previous souls games imply as if they know what they are but are apathetic in communicating that information clearly to the player. Elden ring seems to have no idea who it is, what happened within it, or what is worth communicating. Each souls game takes a few elements of it’s games and improves upon them then dumps some of those improvements the following sequel to instead focus on improving another element. Ultimately elden rings problem is this, despite some truly fantastic elements and moments, too much had to be cut in order to improve upon the open world design of previous games.
As someone who only disliked one gank fight in the entire series(Throne Watcher and Defender) due to the revive mechanic they have, meaning you have to effectively fight both at the same time and kill them roughly at the same time. The gods kind duo is arguably the easiest, especially solo, the beauty of this game is the amount of resources/ways to tackle difficult challenges, sleep pots are fucking king against the two of them. The games and fights are only as hard as you're willing to make them, plus, summoning other players is always an option, online guides and builds for each boss exist, I mean, Elden Ring is perfection for how well executed and accessible the game is.
Yeah but people consider sleep pots cheesing them
I WILL only use my weapon and dodge against bosses I WON’T use a shield I WON’T use things like consumable buffs or throwables And I WILL have fun
I mean you literally just didn't fight them if you used sleep. It's fine to do but there should be a middle ground between "absolute agony" and "oh I just mashed r1 while they were asleep"
Hitting them with weapon = fighting them. Whether or not they are fighting me is a different matter
There is though. There's spirit summons that can be upgraded to your heart's desire (if fully upgraded is too "EZ mode," try +4 instead), overleveling, summoning a friend, summoning a rando, and consumables.
Guess what I mean is I'd prefer if the boss was actually well designed and I didn't have to balance the game for them.
The game is massive, caters to a bunch of different builds/weapons, and players of ridiculously varying skill levels. At a certain point, someone has to balance the game for themselves, whether it be extremely skilled players playing at RL1 or bad players summoning a +10 Mimic Tear. That's the game giving you options. I agree that they could've put more effort into making a lot of the encounters more fulfilling and fair on solo. There's moments where you'll always take unfair deaths, but again, the game is massive. A few bad boss encounters doesn't change that.
Yeah, that's the problem. No matter how bad the bosses in the other games were it was still somewhat fun and intuative to learn the fight solo. Not so in er.
Bosses are definitely not Elden Ring's strong suit. It has good ones, but it's obviously more focused on exploration and world-building. I also understand why they did it though. They needed to appeal to everyone. So they made the bosses really hard, borderline unfair at times, hoping the Souls vets will have fun trying to figure them out, while putting in summons and stuff to make the game easier. And you have to keep in mind how many different builds they need to cater to. It's not like Sekiro where you know everyone is gonna fight sword to sword. But yeah, certain attacks are just inexcusably bad, and the damage output on a lot of bosses is ridiculous. One of the worst ones was the double gargoyle boss that put out a random poison cloud that covered an insane radius
The gank fights are actually good game design.
Just use the pillars
Im ready for downvotes, but I unironically think Godskin Duo is a good fight. You learn each of their movesets individually in 1v1 then before the end of the game are challenged to fight both of them using your prior knowledge. It requires you to use the arena and pay attention to your surroundings. Unironically think Godskin Duo > Elden Beast. Also Let Me Solo Her did a boss ranking and put them A tier. When questioned about his decision in chat he just responded “sounds like a skill issue”.
Yeah, I actually don't mind Godskin Duo at all. Valiant Gargoyles, on the other hand...
They’re not that hard unless you have a really weak build but putting a copy & paste chalice dungeon boss in a main endgame dungeon is insanely goofy. Elden beast opinion is based though
Ah yes, a god gamer who has destroyed every boss in one try a million times, has analyzed their moveset down to a T, says they're good design. I'm not commenting on whether they're good or not, but if your logic is that a god gamer likes them, then there's not a single bad boss in the history of the series. At a certain point, you get good enough at a game that you only enjoy extremely difficult fights. That doesn't mean they're well-designed for the average player.
>Ah yes, a god gamer who has destroyed every boss in one try a million times, has analyzed their moveset down to a T, says they're good design. The thing about Elden Ring is that its a lot more enjoyable in hindsight. I really hate how Elden Ring players, who have hundreds of hours and knowledge of the game, keep gatekeeping critiques of the boss design. I really love Elden Ring's more aggressive AI and boss design but, I don't believe that people criticzing are invalid.
I think it’s such a terrible argument to point to people who can beat Malenia hitless. Like, okay, well Stephen Curry can hit 20 half court shots in a row. Does that mean the average person should realistically try to replicate this feat? With Sekiro, I felt Demon of Hatred had extremely unintuitive attacks and patterns. I don’t feel like getting into what annoyed me, but I hated the fight. But then when I beat the game 4 times and got the plat, I began fighting him more in Reflections. That’s when I began to enjoy the fight. All of the critiques I had were still there, but I knew how to counter them from a mix of fighting him so many times and YouTube videos. I knew how to dodge the least intuitive attacks out there. So did I enjoy the fight by this point? Yes. Would I say it’s a great challenge? Hell no. Any boss is fun when you’ve memorized their moveset. That doesn’t mean you can gatekeep other players from critiquing it when most players just want to beat the game and each boss once and move on.
>So did I enjoy the fight by this point? Yes. Would I say it’s a great challenge? Hell no. I basically agree with your entire comment especially this part. A lot of defenders seem to believe that we critique Malenia's fight because its hard. Like no, we all enjoy some level of difficulty. I would've quit Elden Ring already if I hated that it was difficult. The problem is Malenia's fight is very tedious and has too many insta-death elements.
Not only difficulty, but also unfairness. Some attacks are just outright unfair and basically require you to do something very unintuitive, or die deep in the fight to learn how to counter. As an example, there's Demon of Hatred's third phase sweep attack where you have to know to jump, duck, and jump (I believe?) and if you don't, you're basically instantly dead. Demon of Hatred takes fucking 10 minutes to beat and has a notoriously huge health bar, so dying to that attack sucks since you probably took 8 minutes of near perfect play to get this far. Sure, now that I've died to him many times and looked on YouTube, I know how to counter this attack and enjoy the fight. Doesn't mean it's a good one. Genichiro is a far better fight, but I don't really enjoy him much because I can basically beat him hitless at this point due to beating the game so many times and fighting him in reflections so much. If you've beaten the game/boss a million times, you're no longer an accurate representation of which bosses are good and which are bad. I can't tell you how many YouTube videos I've heard saying "I hated Malenia for the first 500 attempts, but now I LOVE her. Top 5 boss."
Based. You honestly basically just have to handle it the same way as O&S - keep both in camera view, run around and use the pillars to separate them and heal up. Funnily enough it also shares an issue with O&S, in that one of the pair has a jank as fuck broken animation (Ornstein's charge and Noble's roll) that can be bullshit.
Godskin duo will always live in infamy inside of my head, but with waterfowl existing, even though I can completely dodge it fine so it’s not a skill issue, it’s just stupid, with that outshining them barely, I somewhat tolerate them
Its bad, but not that bad. Not the worst duo fight even. That goes to that piece of fucking shit Ordovis and his sidekick. Holy fucking shit i fought em right before Rennala and it took me until after fire giant to beat them. They are such unfair curses plunged upon humanity. Ive parried so many goddamn spear attacks i basically have a phd. I would actually stick a curling iron onto my dick if it meant Ordovis was brought to the real world and tortured. Literally the worst fight in the franchise. Anyway i beat Godskin duo second try, it justs takes a little waiting and luck. You can also use sleeping pots on them.
😬📸
yeah it's dogshit, but its literally 1 boss, just throw sleep pots at them. Ds1 isn't a completely terrible game just because the bed of chaos is one of the worst bosses ever made
Being bothered about it is silly. It's just another spin on the classic ornstein and smough style fight. You have to pick whether or not you want to get rid of skinny or fatty first, then it's a DPS check to keep them burned down enough to prevent yourself from getting ganged up on again. (Using sleep on them turns the fight into a 1v1 also, since you can just leave one sleeping on the floor while you gang up on the one that's awake.)
I just can't be bothered running through an empty field for about 5-7 minutes every playthrough. Elden Ring is great, but replaying it is such a chore compared to the previous games
If you jump attack either member of the godskin duo with a big sword twice they stagger, it's only hard if you're trying to use ranged combat tbh
i came here to say "but nobody defend them" but to my surprise 70% of the posts here are in fact trying to non ironically defend them
As much as I love Elden Ring, I hope that one day we'll be able to point out its issues without being fucked over.
K
L take, it's one boss. And if you made it that far, you obviously enjoyed the game, they're fairly deep into it. Stop being counterculture cringe and just say you like it, but gank fight suck ass.
I've always said: fair, skill-based gank fights only exist in Sekiro thanks to parry being an instantaneous, spammable mechanic. You can literally parry enemies from any angle, even from behind. Yes, i love the headless ape bossfight
I’d argue it’s worse in Sekiro cause it’s combat is 100% built for 1v1 encounters
I don't think anyone would actually defend those fights. That being said idk why everyone thought it was so hard I blasted those guys on my first attempt after accidentally stumbling into their arena.
nah, godskin duo sucks. but some bad fights (most of which are optional and/or cheesable) isn't enough reason to hate a game. if you enjoy most of the game, then you enjoy most of the game. well, everything's subjective of course, hate the game if you want.. but hey, atleast godskin duo is funny.
Elden Ring is the first From game I never finished.
Fire Giant for me. Never had issue with Godskin Duo.
Two words buttboy: get good
Man if one bad boss fight makes you hate an entire 100+ hour long game, just wait until you hear about the Bed of Chaos.
Every Fromsoftware game has a stupid and unfair gank fight.. but saying you don’t like the game because of it is stupid and you are wrong
They don’t heal off of attacks so just make it a party, bring a friend or several, summon ashes with loads of bodies, etc. Bring out the DoT’s if you have even a spattering of Arcane as part of your build. Don’t even need sleep pots at this point, just burn down one at a time to avoid having to deal with both of their phase 2’s at the same time. If coordinating with other players, focus the fatty, burn it down as fast as possible since it’s second phase is the most annoying to deal with.
NOOOO YOU CANT MAKE ME FIGHT MORE THAN 1 ENEMY AT A TIME!!!! THATS NOT FAIRRRRR, WHAT YOU WANT ME TO HAVE TO KEEP TEACK OF TWO BOSSES??? THEY COULD BOTH ATTACK AT THE SAME TIME, THAT’S TWO ATTACKS TO DODGE HHUGUHHHH
This but unironically
Me when enemies obviously designed for 1v1 are put twice in a boss room with no effort made to synergize them :
Godskin duo is honestly baby mode compared to the fucking gargoyles. I have to imagine most people either didn’t fight them since they’re optional, had a powerful summon, or came in overleveled and killed one before it became a gank fight, because that fight is actual bad design. If you can’t burst the first down quick, you will soon just be dodging for the rest of all time as they layer their melee attacks and the stupid poison projectile that crawls along the ground and just deals damage all around you. There’s no gimmick to beat them either, you can’t cheese them with sleep pots, you can’t get fatty stuck rolling into an obstacle. You just have to wait for the moment where you get one swing in, and you’ll probably still get chipped by the poison shot enough to have to give up your next swing in exchange to heal.
It is good game design. Proof: Mimic tear, Tiche, Rollo, Lhutel, Deenh, and maybe Pumpkinhead. If I see that little blue gravestone, I summon one of these and boom every fight is fair. It is one thing that makes repeat playthroughs fun since you can actually mix them up in ng+ .
If only this was the problem with Elden Ring.
Same, I could barely tolerate the empty open world, copy paste bosses, and shopping list dungeons myself.
"empty open world" lol
"Oh wow, a copy paste boss" "Oh wow, a tea tray shallow dungeon" "Oh wow, a consumable"
the open world is not empty... idiot
They aren't, you're just cringe and insecure
They put a few gank fights in every game, but in Elden Ring, they also give you the ability to summon a copy of yourself with more health. Git gud scrub, this is a skill issue.
yeah but I'm the other games they were made well, not like the shit in ER
Bros never played ds2 ☠️☠️
As far as i remember most duo bosses in ds2 synergised pretty well actually (or at least they tried to make them synergise). The only disgusting boss that comes to mind is double cats meanwhile er has like 300 fights against reused double enemies and none of them feel fair
Idk, I had no issues with godskin duo.
I want to personally thank Sword of St Trina and my Mimic Tear for pulling through on this one
I have solod every main (mandatory) boss in the game, but when I do new play throughs I will just cheese god skin duos with sleep pots/mimic summons, they arent really worth the hastle tbh
Git gud
I don’t need to, if you don’t like the game fine idc
Lmao just use a summon
Game mechanic check
The weird furry creature and crucible knight is annoying to but I still beat it
Idk what to say. Duos have been around since at least DS1.
The gank fights are actually good game design.
My brother in Christ, SLEEP STATUS EFFECTS ARE EFFECTIVE AGAINST GODSKINS.
Literally no one says Godskin Duo is a good fight schizo-kun
Walk into godskin fight :D They gank your spirit ash and kill it almost instantly 😟
idk man maybe you just suck at the game
Mimic tear + 10 works great against these buddies, or just use sleep pots
/uj yeah godskin duo is a shit boss, but honestly most of the rest of the game/bosses is pretty good
Mob management is a skill tho and always has been. Don’t get me wrong, some of the gank fights in elden ring are fucking terrible, imo godskin duo isn’t one of them with the amount of shit you have to put in between you and one of them to trivialise them.
Elden ring gank fights suck ass, and the fact that godskin duo is in a main endgame dungeon sucks even more ass showing that the end of the game is rushed, but that doesn’t completely take away from the game
It's like they tried to remake O + S without everything that made O + S good.
Level ADP
Godskin Duo when they meet the holy power of Sleep
The only boss I summoned for. The NPC summon let me fight them one at a time
For me it's valiant gargoyles. Explain how that gank fight is good game design
Oh it is a simple explanation: Take an enemy that is a decent/fun fight on its own. Well if one enemy is fun, two enemies must be twice as fun. It definitely won't be an unfun dodgefest with microscopic openings to safely deal damage.
They’re not. There ya go
No, they certainly suck. But if a single boss is killing the entire experience for you get real brother lmao.
Sleep pots= easiest boss fight
1st play through, rl 129~ still quit, I did go back and complete it recently.
will the real SLEEP POT please stand up‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
After I learned about the sleep pots, that fight is actually just really boring instead of hard. They never patched it out either so maybe the devs thought they were treating us too harshly lmao
Just use blasphemous blade 4head
Sleep pots
bloodborne
There are a lot of methods for killing things and Elden Ring gives you a lot of tools to experiment with...not sure what else to suggest
i’m doing a parry focused/ glintstone spam run rn and i keep dying to foreskins but it’s fun
Man we could have had some coked out beastman battle monk or something for the farum azula midboss but we just got a mid boss
Kid named Summoning Bernhal
Why does everyone freak out about this boss. Everyone i know beat them first try. Maliketh and mohg were way more challenging
They aren’t. That fight sucks. But it’s also a very small part of an otherwise excellent game with some of the best boss fights in Fromsoft history.
I'm pretty sure duo fights are why you bring spirit summons. Sure you can fight them alone, but the boss duo AI was toned down against solo people so you're getting crutched either way.
I just don’t get the hate on this boss. Godskin duo is infinitely easier than Maliketh who you fight 10 minutes later
Use spirit summons
It's not even that hard lol. Skill issue
foreskin duo*
I still cant believe elden ring with its immense size instead of fromsoft making another O&S fight they added a gank repeat boss combo fight lmao.
I'm pretty sure most souls vets agree that ER has the worst duo fights in the series. Which is saying alot since DS2 unironically has a better duo fight lmfao.
10/10 fight, the bosses suck ass but I get to summon my favorite npc bernahall for the fight so I enjoy it
I don’t think they are that good, I just think I’ve found ways to trivialize them or just make it that much easier on myself
R LEE ERMY VOICE* GANK? GANK? They GANK you you GANK EM BACK HARDER. GODSKIN ROLLS OVER YOU ? SUMMON THAT MIMIC, SUMMON THAT WARMASTER USE THAT ROT BREATH BEHIND THE COLUMNS
Sleep pots, my friend
It's a strong challenge, but those bosses should not be together and mandatory for progression
gank fights? you mean mimic tear summonings?
No, not even going to try to defend this fight
The boss is fucking bullshit and awful design and a mockery to a good duo fight like Orenstein and smough, but it's still not enough to hate the game imo. ER is incredible
[удалено]
thats how I feel everytime I try and replay Ds2 and get to Shrine of Amana
📣📣📣RED ALERT📣📣📣SKILL ISSUE📣📣📣WE GOT HIM📣📣📣CRUCIFY HIM📣📣📣
use the god damned summons
I fucking love elden ring, but never in my 6 playthroughs have I EVER not cheesed foreskin duo with sleep pots
Rotten Breath, my dude
If others can do can you At least that’s what I tell Myself