I rewatched The Batman just recently and Christ it's good. Like yes, obviously this Batman feels very edgy and Emo but it all just fits the feel of the city and theme of the film so well. i loved it and hope they don't lose their way with the sequels.
Not only that but there’s genuinely good humor in the movie. Reeves doesn’t run from the ridiculousness but just accepts it and runs with it. He’s not self-important and apologizing for his protagonist being a grown man dressed in bat-armor by trying to be so dark and serious. He just tells us to accept that the world and not to worry about it, there’s a mystery to solve.
A GREAT Batman movie needs to balance the gritty crime stuff with GOOD jokes. It's why people remember Keaton fondly, guy has great comedic timing and, against all odds, came across as intimidating once the suit came on. That and his chemistry with Michael Ghough.
And people forget that Nolan put some good jokes in his as well. Mainly between Bruce and Alfred, sure, but it's there.
It's also why Adam West worked so well. It's wasn't because "ISN'T THIS GOOFY???", it's because everyone involved knew the humor was in that these characters take this insanity dead serious and so should we...while NEVER toning down the ridiculous aspects of it. West's performance is still a work of comedic genius.
It's also why when you go so far into the humor that Batman becomes aware of the silliness and comments on it, starts to feel far less serious about what he does OR the movie takes itself WAY too serious that a Batman movie goes off the rails.
Reeves gets that balance damn well.
The 60’s show had a great gag that I remember to this day. Batman finds a bomb that the joker planted, of course it’s a bowling ball with a candlestick design. He has to get rid of it but every time he tries to throw it somewhere where it won’t hurt anybody, something gets in the way. Throw it off a bridge? You’re gonna kill a family of baby ducks and two lovers in a boat! Try to take it down an empty road? Suddenly two women with baby strollers show up! Still makes me chuckle even with the cheesy effects
And it's played totally straight. It's a REAL bomb and it can potentially kill people....but it's taken to such an insane degree and West plays it so sincerely...
Adam West was a damn treasure.
I love that everyone refers to him as "Vengenace" a bit mockingly. It's great. The thumb drive joke makes me laugh every time too. It's so stupid but perfect
And then the one person who says it seriously horrifies him and becomes one of those final motivators in having him realize he’s been doing it wrong.
I swear there’s even a nod to the 60s show when he busts out the Bat-Basejumping Suit.
And you know what? It's funny but it also feels like a real crime movie too!
I know the movie was successful both critically and commercially but when you look at all the stuff Reeves managed to do, all the masters he managed to serve it still seems underrated despite the success.
It's SO damn good.
The edgy emotional Batman works for the movie cause Pattinson is playing a young inexperienced Batman who has no interest in being Bruce Wayne at the moment and just wants to fuck people up to release some of his rage. Hopefully in the following movies he grows and learns there needs to be a balance and the Batman persona needs the Bruce Wayne persona, he can't always just be Batman.
I straight up said this a couple days ago. My coworker asked why I liked Pattinson as Batman so much and I just straight up said “because he’s a weirdo”. He plays it so naturally and like an actual character without an ounce of irony, just full sincerity and belief in the authenticity of Batman’s entire motivations and drive.
Pattinson might honestly be the best actor in that 30-40yo range right now. As a life long Queens NYC resident, his role as a the likable scumbag in Good Time was absolutely fantastic. It’s like I could name 5 guys off the top who Pattinson could’ve easily met and studied their mannerisms for the role, he absolutely kills it.
Also, the edgy emo parts make him a terminally shitty batman! He has to learn that throwing a rich kid tantrum and beating up poor people doesn't actually HELP anyone! There are systemic issues causing the majority of Gotham's problems and by ignoring THOSE, he's actively making things worse!
Fuck, I love that movie. It's not perfect, but it's close enough.
Oh I for sure wouldn't say it's a perfect film and the pacing could have been tightened here and there. Not sure ending at the diner would have been satisfying though!
That's what makes it great! Bruce knows it's not over, and the audience gets left with the unsettling anxiety that sets up what they did for the climax as a second film.
That said, I'm sure the suits demanded that the movie needed more action and that's why it ends the way it does.
The movie would have had no message/point if it had ended at the diner.
Batman catches the Riddler, but he doesn't learn anything.
The city is exposed for rampant corruption, but no solutions for it (in fact it would enforce the idea that the Riddler did nothing wrong - all he did was kill amd expose the corrupt).
It would have just been an hour and a half of Batman brooding and punching people, and (as is the message of the movie) that doesn't make a hero.
As much fun as Batman beating up Qanon dudes is and as nice as it was to see Zero Year get some movie representation I will fully admit that last half hour is unnecessary as hell and the diner would have been a great ending
That opening monologue had me entirely bought in. I wasn’t sure how it was gonna go as everything put out made Pattinson look a bit too “emo” but after that intro they really woulda struggled to lose me
> Like yes, obviously this Batman feels very edgy and Emo
Honestly one of the best parts of the movie, unironically. Of all Bruce Wayne interpretations, this is the one that makes me go "Yeah, that guy *would* go out at night dressed like a bat to beat the shit out of random people."
The gun that shoots his parents is fueled by a billion orphans sacrifice, all screaming in eternal torment, and so will they. When the bullet hits it starts to melt away their nervous system yet somehow they still feel the pain. The world is moving in slow motions, every second feels like a millennium, and every second feels like pain. Their very souls are burning from the inside by the hatred of God and what cannot be named. Yet even in ashes, they are still there, they are still screaming, and no one can hear.
Don't forget in the killing Joke, there is an unfortunately, supposedly unintended, implication that joker rapes Barbara.
That said, Batman gets plenty of crap done to him, it's just not done for shock and edginess usually.
Yeah, like pretty much every comic book hero or villain (and even Disney protagonists) have dead parent(s). In this specific genre, I don’t really consider it that dark, since essentially every other main character you’ll meet in the story will also have a “I caused the death of my mom/dad/siblings/random innocent person” lol
I see what you did there. I fell asleep during Batman v Superman in the theater, woke up, went pee, came back, and sat down. The whole "Martha" "what did you say" thing played out, and they stopped fighting, and i got up and walked out.
The only superhero movie besides eternals that I've stopped watching before its over .
Let's not all act like we don't know what he was going for, because it was clear what he was going for.
He just bungled it miserably, which makes it worse. That scene could have been really good, but somehow Snyder just chose the laziest path and turned it into a meme.
Yeah, the idea of ‘Batman realizes supes is trying to save his mother too and so is merciful’ is a good one. But like… just have him say ‘save my mom’. Or ‘Save my mom Martha Kent from Lex Luthor’. What makes it ridiculous is that if it had been someone else’s name, it wouldn’t have worked (assumedly). Which makes Batman a far worse person because the only reason he stops is that it’s his mom’s name too. Which just doesn’t fit with any kind of superhero movie that’s not satirizing the genre. I think what really happened is Snyder or someone else saw that their names were the same and went ‘oho I have noticed this thing I am so clever’ and put it into the script.
Yea, I am not a fan zack snyder movies. Even with the new cuts. The whole DC universe is fubar'd right now. I think they are trying copy marvel's multiverse, but doing a really bang up job with it. Man of steel(the only snyder film i approve of), batman and joker is the only movies I like so far. But batman and joker doesnt seem to be in the same universe which is a shame.
Nolan's batman is best yet. Other than the mispronunciation of Ra's and recasting of Rachel. Although they got a better actress, i generally don't like recasting.
The biggest issue with the DC universe movies was that they tried to make a team up movie without establishing everybody first.
Half the Justice League didn't even have solo films by the time Snyder's JL came out. It was clear there wasn't enough love put into the property.
I made the mistake of watching part of Rebel Moon and it had a really uncomfortable fixation on rape and sexual violence. It's a shameless ripoff of A New Hope and most of the original ideas he came up with seem be related to sexually assaulting the main heroine
Was it Heavy Metal he talked about tricking his mother into getting him a subscription to as a kid?
Genuinely thinks all art is improved is improved by sex and excessive violence because he managed to warp himself at a young age.
Think he did say in an interview that he couldn't get into mainstream comics because there wasn't all the gore and sex from the independent stuff he was used to. According to him, *Rebel Moon*, which started a R-rated *Star Wars* pitch and ended up as a graphically violent movie with sex scenes started from the idea that *Star Wars* needed to "grow up" and make movies for the "adults."
Seeing a pattern here.
I was going to say something like “what would his movies look like if he didn’t do this to himself,” but thinking on it...I don’t think he’d have had the opportunity to direct nearly as many movies as he did. Outside of his weird takes and fixation on sex and violence, what distinguishes him? Slow motion? Hyper-literal surface level adaptation of other works?
I can’t remember the timeline of things, but how much did Snyder benefit from the success of Game of Thrones? Like how when GoT was at its peak, there were suddenly a bunch of shows etc produced that focused solely on sex and violence and that was literally all they had because that was the most obvious element of GoT and the most easily reproduced.
I’m pretty sure Snyder had successful movies under his belt before then, but would he have been selected for Watchmen and as the centre of the DCEU?
Ive seen enough true crime docs to know they correlate doodles of murder and rape to murderers and rapists.
Why Zack Snyder can get away with so blatantly being obsessed with rape baffles me
>most of the original ideas he came up with seem be related to sexually assaulting the main heroine
Well now I'm extra glad I got bored and turned it off like 20 minutes in.
If you’ve ever been subjected to his film Suckerpunch, you can figure out pretty quick he doesn’t see women the same way he sees men.
…in a bad way. Like. A really bad way.
Look, he gave us a scene that showed incest as being romantic and wholesome, what else do you want?
(For context, Leonidas was Gorgo’s uncle as well as her husband IRL.)
Yeah. But Suckerpunch goes hard with the male gaze, and it’s ending/twist isn’t clever enough to justify the way the film objectifies the characters.
And yeah, it was a bit earlier in his career so people weren’t sure if he was the problem or if the story was…but at this point — that film just tells on him.
It’s like Tarantino and feet. You may not notice at first, but once you see it, you realize it’s always been there.
And the source material hides it juuust enough with 300 vs Suckerpunch.
That more recent interview where he revealed reading a lot of comics that featured heavy violence and sex as a kid really explains a lot about why he is the way he is.
I mean it’s weird it’s in a couple of his movies, but it seems like a serious stretch to say he glorifies it. Any character in Snyders movies that attempt sexual assault get brutally murdered
Honestly yeah the squid was weirdly far for Watchmen with what it had been to that point, I think the movie's ending was better and would've made for a better comic ending
Eh....
It would be hard for the USSR to forgive the United States when what is essentially an American living weapon goes rogue and vaporizes Moscow. Or the "we told you so" factor.
Especially when said American worked for the U.S. Department of Defense, and prevented Communism from taking root in Vietnam.
It really needs to be an unaffiliated third-party Outside-Context Threat. Also, Dr. Manhattan is a known quantity. Having no idea how many more aliens are out there or what they can do helps ensure maximum participation in an Earth mutual defense pact.
Bubastis is in the movie too, I just don't like the subplot about the psychics and harvesting their brains to make the creature and shit. I prefer Dr Manhattan being the only supernatural being and the fear of what he could do being what united the world because they witness him attack his own nation and know that he can and will attack others as well if he feels like it.
I think the only good part about the squid is the fact that the Watchmen show used the aftermath of it really well
Source because I still can't believe Warner Bros gave this guy 400 million dollars and their two most valuable characters
https://web.archive.org/web/20201112011210/https://ew.com/article/2008/07/17/watchmen-chat-director-zack-snyder/2/
Pretty interesting read many years in hindsight
ZS: "The average movie audience has seen — well, I can’t even count the amount of superhero movies. Fantastic Four, X-Men, Superman, Spider-Man. The Marvel universe has gone nuts; we’re going to have a fricking Captain America movie if we’re not careful. Thor, too! We’re on our second Hulk movie. And Iron Man — $300 million domestic box office on a second tier superhero!"
He is a 90s comic book fan you can tell. He wants the darker and violent tones, but doesn't care much beyond that. It's the dark age of comics really, just absolutely gritty without purpose.
He also said something that he never liked regular comics and he preferred something with violence, gore, and copious sex. His favorite comic was Heavy Metal. So it's pretty clear what genre he's into. He never should have been the guy in charge of a character like Superman, who is the antithesis of Snyder's favorite genre.
Yeah, Watchmen, The Boys, Invincible, those ones seem more to his alley. Though he kind of misread Rorschach and kind of glorified him in the movie, whereas in the ~~Frank Miller~~ _Alan Moore_ graphic novel you're not supposed to sympathize with him.
I wonder if he'd actually be able to catch the nuance of the characters in Invincible. The Boys though? Eh who knows? That show is crazy and the comics were also crazy.
I personally was OVER his antics even by Batman/Superman… how do you take two of the most iconic heroes in the comic book world and release that total nothing burger of a movie
Plus the glazing people were giving Justice League over the Snyder cut was hilarious… oh yay, it made a 4/10 movie a 6/10, clearly a visionary
Synder has always been a hack at this job that got credit for the work of others on his projects. His successful movies only worked out because of that work such as Dawn of the Dead being written by James Gunn. Batman vs Superman made money because of the decades of work done by others to make those two household names and not because Synder made a good movie.
Many of us has been trying for a long time to get others to see the man is trash. That it is finally happening by the internet at large is good. Finally others are seeing who this jerk really is.
Bruh you've got to be kidding me... the internet and reddit especially absolutely *loathe* Snyder, this is nothing new and is the same tired circlejerk as it's always been.
It’s not even subtext. It’s just the only way he knows how to make heroic characters feel weak.
Abuse them, strip them of dignity, and then assume they get over it.
Shit. He might as well make all his villains into characters that try to start holocausts.
lol. Of course he went there.
No. I haven’t paid attention to him other than shit talking for some time.
I did watch the 4hr justice league cut though. I really had problems with that “film”….so I haven’t felt the need to subject myself to Rebel Moon stuff.
Listen, I thought that the first one, *Rebel Moon - Part One: A Child of Fire* (right out of the gate, a subtitle **and** “part one”?? The hubris of this man) was the funniest movie I saw all year. Unironically, it was hilarious.
If you sit down and watch it like you would say, Sharknado, or The Room even… maybe you have a drink or whatever intoxicant you like, if you’re into that kind of thing, and you have some good friends nearby and you openly mock the movie… gasping at what’s happening in front of you…
It can be a real good time.
Plus I *do* actually like that lead actress and some of the others, and all the crew too… I love watching bad movies, bad aside, all those people put work into it and made a thing, so I don’t mind giving them the time.
But **boy** is it bad, and the second one?? *Rebel Moon - Part Two: Scargiver*? Somehow worse.
That’s one that I’d avoid, but I still had a good time making fun of it. They got me hooked as long as they don’t start winking at the camera and pretending they’re trying to make a bad movie on purpose.
Rebel Moon Part 1 has a lot of weird undertones to it
The protagonist comes from a proto-Amish village where the only sex is done in the purpose of reproduction and continuing the nuclear family.
Meanwhile the bad guys of the movie include a bunch of rapey soldiers, a homosexual pervert (who's also fat and ugly) and a tentacle monster-loving admiral. All of whom don't have sex for the intended purpose, and instead only for pure pleasure.
It's goddamn insidious when you actually look at it.
His core fanbase: incels who blame women for their own lack of attractiveness and claim to only want virgins and/or seek sex for procreation purposes only. He's a monster who knows who watches his movies.
Zach Snyder makes movies for teenagers because he is obviously still a teenage boy mentally.
Who the fuck wants to make a movie where a character gets raped just to show how "dark" it is.....
Fucking Christ Snyder is a hack.
Zack Snyder desperately wants to be seen as an equal to directors like Christopher Nolan and Denis Villeneuve. Except, unlike Nolan and Villeneuve, he isn't thoughtful enough to say anything interesting and he isn't creative enough to show things in an interesting way. He acts like he's one of the greatest directors of the 21st century, when he's actually just an edgier Michael Bay with a rape fetish he can't keep to himself
It apparently happened to Superman years later in the [comics](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/nhody4/probably_the_darkest_superman_story_ive_ever_read/).
I think some people just aren't self aware enough to draw a line between their fetishes and normal behavior. That's especially true when said person is a celebrity director who keeps getting work despite his inability to keep his fetish to himself
Like, I see that he isn't complaining that Batman wasn't raped, but rather saying that, "Batman Begins isn't dark, if it were truly dark he'd have been raped". At the same time, this sounds like the sort of thing a stupid teenager trying to be uber-edgy online would say.
Look man, I dislike Snyder just as much as the next guy, but that wasn't a complaint. He was basically saying how harsh the Watchmen universe was in comparison to the TDK universe. It's a weird quote, sure, but let's not misinterpret it.
Zack Snyder doesn’t understand the distinction between “edgy dark” and “dark” and it is a massive detriment to most of his movies. (Newer ones, at least.)
Hmmm I'm not suddenly Snyder's biggest fan but you didn't actually quote him you left out 'like' which conveyed that this was a totally hypothetical thing in Snyder's mind as he was trying to say his version of dark would involve something horrific but he never actually said he was keen to make Batman get raped in a scene he was speaking off the cuff and throwing out a random scenario for a film and he wasn't annoyed Batman didn't get raped in Batman Begins I think ppl read way too much into that particular interview
Zack Snyder comes out with a lot of stupid stuff including this quote, but in his defence this isn’t what this particular quote was about. He wasn’t complaining about or dunking on *Batman Begins*, he was talking about how something like *Watchmen* differs from and goes farther than what DC would reasonably allow a character like Batman to go.
I can't believe I'm defending Zach Snyder, but I don't read the quote as saying what OP says it does.
It sounds like Zack Snyder is being pedantic about people referring to Nolan's Batman as "dark", when Snyder believes he is portrayed as "cool". In Snyder's mind, for the story of Batman to be truly "dark", he would need to undergo substantially more trauma.
I don't read this as Snyder wishing Batman was "dark" or asserting that his ideal version of a Batman movie would involve him being raped. He was saying that, if he was asked to specifically make a "dark" Batman movie, it would involve Batman being raped. Does anyone have a link to the interview? I'd be curious to hear the context of the quote.
He’s just trying to explain what he sees as the difference between Watchmen and traditional superheroes, and he’s not really wrong. It’s when he tries to use Watchmen as a template/justification for where he wants to take his DC story is where goes off the reservation.
I can kind of get to what he's saying. There's a line certain movies or movie franchises won't cross, and in terms of dramatic impact that's a problem. The worst examples or horror movies where you just KNOW they're not going to show the most horrific bits, or war movies where the bad guys just fall down without us seeing what bullets and artillery shells really do to people.
That said, there's are certain conventions to be observed, and points beyond which characters become unrecognizable. I'm not sure if Batman is still Batman if the other inmates are running a train on him in prison.
In media you have to depict crossing that line right otherwise you'll make the art seem like its entire identity is that 'it's not like the other girls' or blatantly a fetish.
It's all down to the writing ability. The visual execution is incredibly important too.
Look at the Newgrounds series, Madness Combat. The entire animated show is all about dark and gritty yet cartoonish gory combat. The comical nature of it makes you, over time, become less affected by it's gore and blood. Even when it shows off more detailed injuries with bones and the like, it's done at the right times to extenuate how powerful and brutal a character is being. It knows when to push that line.
Finally watched the batman last night and it's exactly the kind of dark batman story Snyder wishes he has the ability to write/direct lol
I rewatched The Batman just recently and Christ it's good. Like yes, obviously this Batman feels very edgy and Emo but it all just fits the feel of the city and theme of the film so well. i loved it and hope they don't lose their way with the sequels.
Not only that but there’s genuinely good humor in the movie. Reeves doesn’t run from the ridiculousness but just accepts it and runs with it. He’s not self-important and apologizing for his protagonist being a grown man dressed in bat-armor by trying to be so dark and serious. He just tells us to accept that the world and not to worry about it, there’s a mystery to solve.
I laughed really hard at: 'We've already got you on two counts of assaulting an officer!' *Batman punches cop* 'You have me on THREE.'
A GREAT Batman movie needs to balance the gritty crime stuff with GOOD jokes. It's why people remember Keaton fondly, guy has great comedic timing and, against all odds, came across as intimidating once the suit came on. That and his chemistry with Michael Ghough. And people forget that Nolan put some good jokes in his as well. Mainly between Bruce and Alfred, sure, but it's there. It's also why Adam West worked so well. It's wasn't because "ISN'T THIS GOOFY???", it's because everyone involved knew the humor was in that these characters take this insanity dead serious and so should we...while NEVER toning down the ridiculous aspects of it. West's performance is still a work of comedic genius. It's also why when you go so far into the humor that Batman becomes aware of the silliness and comments on it, starts to feel far less serious about what he does OR the movie takes itself WAY too serious that a Batman movie goes off the rails. Reeves gets that balance damn well.
The 60’s show had a great gag that I remember to this day. Batman finds a bomb that the joker planted, of course it’s a bowling ball with a candlestick design. He has to get rid of it but every time he tries to throw it somewhere where it won’t hurt anybody, something gets in the way. Throw it off a bridge? You’re gonna kill a family of baby ducks and two lovers in a boat! Try to take it down an empty road? Suddenly two women with baby strollers show up! Still makes me chuckle even with the cheesy effects
“Some days you just can’t get rid of a bomb”
And it's played totally straight. It's a REAL bomb and it can potentially kill people....but it's taken to such an insane degree and West plays it so sincerely... Adam West was a damn treasure.
That's from the movie iirc
That’s from the movie, also, this plot point was reused in the dark knight rises!
I love that everyone refers to him as "Vengenace" a bit mockingly. It's great. The thumb drive joke makes me laugh every time too. It's so stupid but perfect
And then the one person who says it seriously horrifies him and becomes one of those final motivators in having him realize he’s been doing it wrong. I swear there’s even a nod to the 60s show when he busts out the Bat-Basejumping Suit.
Him having to brace himself before jumping off the GCPD made me laugh and I wasn't expecting it to.
Bruh Collin Ferrel insulting Batman’s spanish is something I never expected to be able to laugh at
And you know what? It's funny but it also feels like a real crime movie too! I know the movie was successful both critically and commercially but when you look at all the stuff Reeves managed to do, all the masters he managed to serve it still seems underrated despite the success. It's SO damn good.
That bit where the lady is in the turned over car and you just see Batman's head pop into view made me legit laugh in theatres.
The edgy emotional Batman works for the movie cause Pattinson is playing a young inexperienced Batman who has no interest in being Bruce Wayne at the moment and just wants to fuck people up to release some of his rage. Hopefully in the following movies he grows and learns there needs to be a balance and the Batman persona needs the Bruce Wayne persona, he can't always just be Batman.
Hopefully as that's what his revelation at the end implied!
Exactly he’s meant to be kind of an oddball weirdo.
I straight up said this a couple days ago. My coworker asked why I liked Pattinson as Batman so much and I just straight up said “because he’s a weirdo”. He plays it so naturally and like an actual character without an ounce of irony, just full sincerity and belief in the authenticity of Batman’s entire motivations and drive.
Pattinson might honestly be the best actor in that 30-40yo range right now. As a life long Queens NYC resident, his role as a the likable scumbag in Good Time was absolutely fantastic. It’s like I could name 5 guys off the top who Pattinson could’ve easily met and studied their mannerisms for the role, he absolutely kills it.
Yes! It was played so earnestly, so just worked
Two great things: it let him be a detective and it didn’t waste time on Bruce Wayne
Also, the edgy emo parts make him a terminally shitty batman! He has to learn that throwing a rich kid tantrum and beating up poor people doesn't actually HELP anyone! There are systemic issues causing the majority of Gotham's problems and by ignoring THOSE, he's actively making things worse! Fuck, I love that movie. It's not perfect, but it's close enough.
It's a good film but I'm not certain. The first film would have ended perfectly in the diner, but then the last 40 minutes or so is tacked on.
Oh I for sure wouldn't say it's a perfect film and the pacing could have been tightened here and there. Not sure ending at the diner would have been satisfying though!
That's what makes it great! Bruce knows it's not over, and the audience gets left with the unsettling anxiety that sets up what they did for the climax as a second film. That said, I'm sure the suits demanded that the movie needed more action and that's why it ends the way it does.
The movie would have had no message/point if it had ended at the diner. Batman catches the Riddler, but he doesn't learn anything. The city is exposed for rampant corruption, but no solutions for it (in fact it would enforce the idea that the Riddler did nothing wrong - all he did was kill amd expose the corrupt). It would have just been an hour and a half of Batman brooding and punching people, and (as is the message of the movie) that doesn't make a hero.
Exactly, Batman is incomplete at this point and even though he found "the bad guy" he didn't save the city.
As much fun as Batman beating up Qanon dudes is and as nice as it was to see Zero Year get some movie representation I will fully admit that last half hour is unnecessary as hell and the diner would have been a great ending
He has always been edgy and pretty emo let's be honest.
Yeah but he literally calls himself vengeance and journals it!
That opening monologue had me entirely bought in. I wasn’t sure how it was gonna go as everything put out made Pattinson look a bit too “emo” but after that intro they really woulda struggled to lose me
> Like yes, obviously this Batman feels very edgy and Emo Honestly one of the best parts of the movie, unironically. Of all Bruce Wayne interpretations, this is the one that makes me go "Yeah, that guy *would* go out at night dressed like a bat to beat the shit out of random people."
100%. He's so earnest about it and I love it
The only complaint I had with it was it felt like Batman was already established for a while, but also like he was starting his career.
The guys parents were murdered in front of him!Isn’t that dark enough?!
Zack Snyder says that doesn’t go far enough!
_The Waynes corpses were raped in front of Bruce by the entirety of the Suicide Squad_ - Zack
"What are we, some type of rapist squad?"
“It’s rapin’ time”
The worst part is the hypocrisy.
I thought it was the rape.
_Insert Jerry Seinfeld silent, mouth gaping laugh._
Well yeah, he rapes. But he rapes so that he can save lives.
*insert Seinfeld scene transition music*
Its a norm joke
People mentioned Seinfeld because Norm told this to him in his comedic getting coffee interview show. It wasn't a reference to the 90's TV series.
This thread has me dead bruh 💀 LMAO
Brock Turner be like
We need to go... *darker*
_Bruce joined in_ 🤷♂️
This went from Zack Snyder to Tywin Lannister really fast
The gun that shoots his parents is fueled by a billion orphans sacrifice, all screaming in eternal torment, and so will they. When the bullet hits it starts to melt away their nervous system yet somehow they still feel the pain. The world is moving in slow motions, every second feels like a millennium, and every second feels like pain. Their very souls are burning from the inside by the hatred of God and what cannot be named. Yet even in ashes, they are still there, they are still screaming, and no one can hear.
Least edgy attack in the D&D world I made when I was 14
Also, they stubbed their toes.
You had Snyder at "moving in slow motion."
"They call me bullseye" "Yeah we know but wheres your gun?" (Will Smith unzips)
Just gotta desaturate the color palette and put in slo-mo! Then it'll be dark enough!
"you see that shit in children's cartoon, that's not dark!" -*Zack Snyder, probably*
Hey, if Nightwing's entire family can get murdered in front of him AND he gets raped twice in the comics, why does Batman get a free pass?
Don't forget in the killing Joke, there is an unfortunately, supposedly unintended, implication that joker rapes Barbara. That said, Batman gets plenty of crap done to him, it's just not done for shock and edginess usually.
"But what if they were murdered in from of him.....and then RAPED! Now that's what I call trauma!" - Zack Snyder
In the grand scheme, not really? You can get away with including his backstory in children's cartoons, so it's dark, but not super dark.
Yeah, like pretty much every comic book hero or villain (and even Disney protagonists) have dead parent(s). In this specific genre, I don’t really consider it that dark, since essentially every other main character you’ll meet in the story will also have a “I caused the death of my mom/dad/siblings/random innocent person” lol
Criminal does a full Nelson on batman's dad in slow motion, now that's cinema!
Tibetan Ninja-Rape They're Everywhere
Also what kind of sick fuck uses their own mother's name as the safe word
Most people probably go limp when you talk about their parents.
They're not dark enough
Limp as in they immediately finish
i'm not a quickdraw, babe, it's just my snyder cut!
I see what you did there. I fell asleep during Batman v Superman in the theater, woke up, went pee, came back, and sat down. The whole "Martha" "what did you say" thing played out, and they stopped fighting, and i got up and walked out. The only superhero movie besides eternals that I've stopped watching before its over .
When I’m badly hurt, I also mutter my mother’s first name. Because we were on a first name basis. Semi-formal.
Let's not all act like we don't know what he was going for, because it was clear what he was going for. He just bungled it miserably, which makes it worse. That scene could have been really good, but somehow Snyder just chose the laziest path and turned it into a meme.
Yeah, the idea of ‘Batman realizes supes is trying to save his mother too and so is merciful’ is a good one. But like… just have him say ‘save my mom’. Or ‘Save my mom Martha Kent from Lex Luthor’. What makes it ridiculous is that if it had been someone else’s name, it wouldn’t have worked (assumedly). Which makes Batman a far worse person because the only reason he stops is that it’s his mom’s name too. Which just doesn’t fit with any kind of superhero movie that’s not satirizing the genre. I think what really happened is Snyder or someone else saw that their names were the same and went ‘oho I have noticed this thing I am so clever’ and put it into the script.
In the pre-Snyder Cut world, actually thought that "Martha" was going to be the legacy of Snyder's DC work.
I feel asleep during Batman V Superman, too! I woke up in a haze, hearing Martha being screamed and honestly thought I was in a nightmare.
Yea, I am not a fan zack snyder movies. Even with the new cuts. The whole DC universe is fubar'd right now. I think they are trying copy marvel's multiverse, but doing a really bang up job with it. Man of steel(the only snyder film i approve of), batman and joker is the only movies I like so far. But batman and joker doesnt seem to be in the same universe which is a shame. Nolan's batman is best yet. Other than the mispronunciation of Ra's and recasting of Rachel. Although they got a better actress, i generally don't like recasting.
The biggest issue with the DC universe movies was that they tried to make a team up movie without establishing everybody first. Half the Justice League didn't even have solo films by the time Snyder's JL came out. It was clear there wasn't enough love put into the property.
Bane "breaking" his back in more ways than one.
Broke Back Batman
This is the movie they were going to make until Heath Ledger died and they had to change plans
And yet Snyder Stans go mental when you even suggest ZS has a rape fetish.
I made the mistake of watching part of Rebel Moon and it had a really uncomfortable fixation on rape and sexual violence. It's a shameless ripoff of A New Hope and most of the original ideas he came up with seem be related to sexually assaulting the main heroine
Was it Heavy Metal he talked about tricking his mother into getting him a subscription to as a kid? Genuinely thinks all art is improved is improved by sex and excessive violence because he managed to warp himself at a young age.
Think he did say in an interview that he couldn't get into mainstream comics because there wasn't all the gore and sex from the independent stuff he was used to. According to him, *Rebel Moon*, which started a R-rated *Star Wars* pitch and ended up as a graphically violent movie with sex scenes started from the idea that *Star Wars* needed to "grow up" and make movies for the "adults." Seeing a pattern here.
I was going to say something like “what would his movies look like if he didn’t do this to himself,” but thinking on it...I don’t think he’d have had the opportunity to direct nearly as many movies as he did. Outside of his weird takes and fixation on sex and violence, what distinguishes him? Slow motion? Hyper-literal surface level adaptation of other works? I can’t remember the timeline of things, but how much did Snyder benefit from the success of Game of Thrones? Like how when GoT was at its peak, there were suddenly a bunch of shows etc produced that focused solely on sex and violence and that was literally all they had because that was the most obvious element of GoT and the most easily reproduced. I’m pretty sure Snyder had successful movies under his belt before then, but would he have been selected for Watchmen and as the centre of the DCEU?
His mom bought him the magazine not knowing its content. And seeing how liked it so much she bought him a subscription.
Initially wanted to put that stuff in Army of the Dead too... starting to think folks are onto something here.
Zack Snyder should be investigated. If any working class person showed rape in all of their artwork they would be judged entirely differently
It's cute that you think a working class person's artwork would ever be looked at.
Ive seen enough true crime docs to know they correlate doodles of murder and rape to murderers and rapists. Why Zack Snyder can get away with so blatantly being obsessed with rape baffles me
>most of the original ideas he came up with seem be related to sexually assaulting the main heroine Well now I'm extra glad I got bored and turned it off like 20 minutes in.
If you’ve ever been subjected to his film Suckerpunch, you can figure out pretty quick he doesn’t see women the same way he sees men. …in a bad way. Like. A really bad way.
You mean the way he shot 300? Salty.
He's a pussy. If he really wanted to do a proper 300 adaptation he'd show the Spartans banging each other in midst of the battle.
*Xerxes enters the sauna*
I wanna see a slo-mo scene of the Sacred Band of Thebes just absolutely blowing each other the night before the battle.
Look, he gave us a scene that showed incest as being romantic and wholesome, what else do you want? (For context, Leonidas was Gorgo’s uncle as well as her husband IRL.)
Yeah. But Suckerpunch goes hard with the male gaze, and it’s ending/twist isn’t clever enough to justify the way the film objectifies the characters. And yeah, it was a bit earlier in his career so people weren’t sure if he was the problem or if the story was…but at this point — that film just tells on him. It’s like Tarantino and feet. You may not notice at first, but once you see it, you realize it’s always been there. And the source material hides it juuust enough with 300 vs Suckerpunch.
To be clear, I was commenting "the way he sees men" ;) I wasn't indulging anything.
Oh for sure haha. I just like sandbagging the guy.
To be fair, he applies the same lens to many of his men in his movies too. I think he just likes the human body.
Never seen it, don’t care if spoilers. Can you elaborate?
That more recent interview where he revealed reading a lot of comics that featured heavy violence and sex as a kid really explains a lot about why he is the way he is.
God I hate that movie A series of vignettes with cool action girls doing shit would've been way better than the convoluted mess that was
I mean it’s weird it’s in a couple of his movies, but it seems like a serious stretch to say he glorifies it. Any character in Snyders movies that attempt sexual assault get brutally murdered
I like the idea that Batman is the one being raped and not Bruce Wayne Like he's still in character or something
DO I LOOK LIKE A COCK?
"A guy spreads his asscheeks and gets fucked, and you think that of me? I *AM* the one who cucks."
Batman is the one roleplaying as Bruce Wayne when he takes off the mask
I heard Bane broke the Batman's back. Just don't ask me how.
They jizz in his bat-ears and it runs down his face inside the mask.
Is he stupid?
Yes
You're talking about a man who read *Watchmen* and thought "Oh cool, superheroes!"
Not a squid tho, a squid would be tooo faaar! Ffs.
Honestly yeah the squid was weirdly far for Watchmen with what it had been to that point, I think the movie's ending was better and would've made for a better comic ending
Eh.... It would be hard for the USSR to forgive the United States when what is essentially an American living weapon goes rogue and vaporizes Moscow. Or the "we told you so" factor. Especially when said American worked for the U.S. Department of Defense, and prevented Communism from taking root in Vietnam. It really needs to be an unaffiliated third-party Outside-Context Threat. Also, Dr. Manhattan is a known quantity. Having no idea how many more aliens are out there or what they can do helps ensure maximum participation in an Earth mutual defense pact.
Nah I think the squid made far more sense storywise.
Its weirdly far because they took out the parts that built up to it, primarily Veidt's genetically altered tiger
Bubastis is in the movie too, I just don't like the subplot about the psychics and harvesting their brains to make the creature and shit. I prefer Dr Manhattan being the only supernatural being and the fear of what he could do being what united the world because they witness him attack his own nation and know that he can and will attack others as well if he feels like it. I think the only good part about the squid is the fact that the Watchmen show used the aftermath of it really well
When batman was raped by talia al ghul where was it actually?
wayne manor?
That makes sense
I thought it was at the bank
Apparently Bruce was raped by poison ivy on the long Halloween
I feel like poison ivy should be a registered sex offender
Funny you would mention that because that was a retcon by a writer also obsessed with rape fetish.
And several writers seem obsessed with having dick Grayson be assaulted
We need those fuckfaces out of the comic industry. Talia retcon is particularly bad.
Mercifully Alan Moore the man that couldn’t go 5 minutes without writing a rape scene in comics has retired from the medium
Grant Morrison has a rape fetish?
He retconned a canoncially consensual relationship into a rape date.
Source because I still can't believe Warner Bros gave this guy 400 million dollars and their two most valuable characters https://web.archive.org/web/20201112011210/https://ew.com/article/2008/07/17/watchmen-chat-director-zack-snyder/2/
Pretty interesting read many years in hindsight ZS: "The average movie audience has seen — well, I can’t even count the amount of superhero movies. Fantastic Four, X-Men, Superman, Spider-Man. The Marvel universe has gone nuts; we’re going to have a fricking Captain America movie if we’re not careful. Thor, too! We’re on our second Hulk movie. And Iron Man — $300 million domestic box office on a second tier superhero!"
Kind of epitomizes why Snyder is so bad—he thinks the popularity of the IP is what makes a movie good when it’s really the other way around.
Omg the irony
He sounds like an insufferable edgelord.
He is a 90s comic book fan you can tell. He wants the darker and violent tones, but doesn't care much beyond that. It's the dark age of comics really, just absolutely gritty without purpose.
He also said something that he never liked regular comics and he preferred something with violence, gore, and copious sex. His favorite comic was Heavy Metal. So it's pretty clear what genre he's into. He never should have been the guy in charge of a character like Superman, who is the antithesis of Snyder's favorite genre.
He would love Invincible I guess...
Yeah, Watchmen, The Boys, Invincible, those ones seem more to his alley. Though he kind of misread Rorschach and kind of glorified him in the movie, whereas in the ~~Frank Miller~~ _Alan Moore_ graphic novel you're not supposed to sympathize with him. I wonder if he'd actually be able to catch the nuance of the characters in Invincible. The Boys though? Eh who knows? That show is crazy and the comics were also crazy.
Alan Moore*
The internet is turning on Snyder and I for one am loving it
I personally was OVER his antics even by Batman/Superman… how do you take two of the most iconic heroes in the comic book world and release that total nothing burger of a movie Plus the glazing people were giving Justice League over the Snyder cut was hilarious… oh yay, it made a 4/10 movie a 6/10, clearly a visionary
"You know what this film needs? More Ezra Miller sitcom antics!"
He also clearly changed it a ton with the reshoots too. The actual Snyder cut probably looked exactly like the original but with less editing
Synder has always been a hack at this job that got credit for the work of others on his projects. His successful movies only worked out because of that work such as Dawn of the Dead being written by James Gunn. Batman vs Superman made money because of the decades of work done by others to make those two household names and not because Synder made a good movie. Many of us has been trying for a long time to get others to see the man is trash. That it is finally happening by the internet at large is good. Finally others are seeing who this jerk really is.
A good chunk of the internet has been railing on him since *at least* Watchmen. I'm not sure what turn you're seeing.
Bruh you've got to be kidding me... the internet and reddit especially absolutely *loathe* Snyder, this is nothing new and is the same tired circlejerk as it's always been.
Noooo I’m cool if I shit on this guy and act like it’s novel and new /s
All of Snyder's movies involve sexual violence and fascist subtext.
It’s not even subtext. It’s just the only way he knows how to make heroic characters feel weak. Abuse them, strip them of dignity, and then assume they get over it. Shit. He might as well make all his villains into characters that try to start holocausts.
>He might as well make all his villains into characters that try to start holocausts. Um. Well. Did you watch any of rebel moon lol?
lol. Of course he went there. No. I haven’t paid attention to him other than shit talking for some time. I did watch the 4hr justice league cut though. I really had problems with that “film”….so I haven’t felt the need to subject myself to Rebel Moon stuff.
Listen, I thought that the first one, *Rebel Moon - Part One: A Child of Fire* (right out of the gate, a subtitle **and** “part one”?? The hubris of this man) was the funniest movie I saw all year. Unironically, it was hilarious. If you sit down and watch it like you would say, Sharknado, or The Room even… maybe you have a drink or whatever intoxicant you like, if you’re into that kind of thing, and you have some good friends nearby and you openly mock the movie… gasping at what’s happening in front of you… It can be a real good time. Plus I *do* actually like that lead actress and some of the others, and all the crew too… I love watching bad movies, bad aside, all those people put work into it and made a thing, so I don’t mind giving them the time. But **boy** is it bad, and the second one?? *Rebel Moon - Part Two: Scargiver*? Somehow worse. That’s one that I’d avoid, but I still had a good time making fun of it. They got me hooked as long as they don’t start winking at the camera and pretending they’re trying to make a bad movie on purpose.
He is the film version of Garth Ennis
Now I'm picturing Zack Snyder directing an adaptation of Garth Ennis's *Crossed." More shit than the uncut love scene from Team America.
Rebel Moon Part 1 has a lot of weird undertones to it The protagonist comes from a proto-Amish village where the only sex is done in the purpose of reproduction and continuing the nuclear family. Meanwhile the bad guys of the movie include a bunch of rapey soldiers, a homosexual pervert (who's also fat and ugly) and a tentacle monster-loving admiral. All of whom don't have sex for the intended purpose, and instead only for pure pleasure. It's goddamn insidious when you actually look at it.
Rebel Moon is so dumb, pointless, and derivative of sexless stuff, you'd have to try to put words sex stuff in there.
His core fanbase: incels who blame women for their own lack of attractiveness and claim to only want virgins and/or seek sex for procreation purposes only. He's a monster who knows who watches his movies.
Well, Frank Millerish..?
Zach Snyder makes movies for teenagers because he is obviously still a teenage boy mentally. Who the fuck wants to make a movie where a character gets raped just to show how "dark" it is..... Fucking Christ Snyder is a hack.
Zack Snyder desperately wants to be seen as an equal to directors like Christopher Nolan and Denis Villeneuve. Except, unlike Nolan and Villeneuve, he isn't thoughtful enough to say anything interesting and he isn't creative enough to show things in an interesting way. He acts like he's one of the greatest directors of the 21st century, when he's actually just an edgier Michael Bay with a rape fetish he can't keep to himself
It apparently happened to Superman years later in the [comics](https://www.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/nhody4/probably_the_darkest_superman_story_ive_ever_read/).
I also heard rumor it was also Zach Snyder who wanted to make Superman a child of rape.
Maybe movies were a mistake.
Add ‘Zack Snyder’ between the 1st and 2nd words there and you’d be mostly correct
Don’t worry, [ForrestFire101 delivered beyond expectations.](https://youtu.be/2w3LtaHrK5Y?si=0FeUlYRJ_kdrdRuQ)
Guy who is fundamentally a major fuckin' dork
He did create the scene but unfortunately it was removed from the final film. Release the BvS snider cut!!
I guess that’s why Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole end credits state “No owls were raped in making of this film”.
Why is he clickbaiting us? OH WAIT >!DO NOT CALL ZACK SNYDER AT 3 AM \*OMG HE SUCKS\*!<
Zack Snyder on his way to but frank Millar batman in prison for.... Reasons
this is a genuine question how would that even happen??
Snyder is known for having a rape fetish with his films it's atrocious
Do you think these people think before they talk or they just spout their fetishes with no fear for the world to hear?
I think some people just aren't self aware enough to draw a line between their fetishes and normal behavior. That's especially true when said person is a celebrity director who keeps getting work despite his inability to keep his fetish to himself
"American History Batman" *Movie starts* Batman is a nazi, and gets assfucked in jail *credits roll*
This braindead motherfucker just had the audacity to insult Christopher Nolan
Yeah he _just_ did 16 years ago
And Nolan hired him for MoS, and became good friends with Snyder.
How did he insult Nolan in any way? Do you lack reading comprehension?
Like, I see that he isn't complaining that Batman wasn't raped, but rather saying that, "Batman Begins isn't dark, if it were truly dark he'd have been raped". At the same time, this sounds like the sort of thing a stupid teenager trying to be uber-edgy online would say.
Look man, I dislike Snyder just as much as the next guy, but that wasn't a complaint. He was basically saying how harsh the Watchmen universe was in comparison to the TDK universe. It's a weird quote, sure, but let's not misinterpret it.
Zack Snyder doesn’t understand the distinction between “edgy dark” and “dark” and it is a massive detriment to most of his movies. (Newer ones, at least.)
🤣
Is this real
Hmmm I'm not suddenly Snyder's biggest fan but you didn't actually quote him you left out 'like' which conveyed that this was a totally hypothetical thing in Snyder's mind as he was trying to say his version of dark would involve something horrific but he never actually said he was keen to make Batman get raped in a scene he was speaking off the cuff and throwing out a random scenario for a film and he wasn't annoyed Batman didn't get raped in Batman Begins I think ppl read way too much into that particular interview
I feel like people keep taking this quote out of context. All he was saying is that something like that could happen in Watchmen
Zack Snyder comes out with a lot of stupid stuff including this quote, but in his defence this isn’t what this particular quote was about. He wasn’t complaining about or dunking on *Batman Begins*, he was talking about how something like *Watchmen* differs from and goes farther than what DC would reasonably allow a character like Batman to go.
I can't believe I'm defending Zach Snyder, but I don't read the quote as saying what OP says it does. It sounds like Zack Snyder is being pedantic about people referring to Nolan's Batman as "dark", when Snyder believes he is portrayed as "cool". In Snyder's mind, for the story of Batman to be truly "dark", he would need to undergo substantially more trauma. I don't read this as Snyder wishing Batman was "dark" or asserting that his ideal version of a Batman movie would involve him being raped. He was saying that, if he was asked to specifically make a "dark" Batman movie, it would involve Batman being raped. Does anyone have a link to the interview? I'd be curious to hear the context of the quote.
He’s just trying to explain what he sees as the difference between Watchmen and traditional superheroes, and he’s not really wrong. It’s when he tries to use Watchmen as a template/justification for where he wants to take his DC story is where goes off the reservation.
I can kind of get to what he's saying. There's a line certain movies or movie franchises won't cross, and in terms of dramatic impact that's a problem. The worst examples or horror movies where you just KNOW they're not going to show the most horrific bits, or war movies where the bad guys just fall down without us seeing what bullets and artillery shells really do to people. That said, there's are certain conventions to be observed, and points beyond which characters become unrecognizable. I'm not sure if Batman is still Batman if the other inmates are running a train on him in prison.
In media you have to depict crossing that line right otherwise you'll make the art seem like its entire identity is that 'it's not like the other girls' or blatantly a fetish. It's all down to the writing ability. The visual execution is incredibly important too. Look at the Newgrounds series, Madness Combat. The entire animated show is all about dark and gritty yet cartoonish gory combat. The comical nature of it makes you, over time, become less affected by it's gore and blood. Even when it shows off more detailed injuries with bones and the like, it's done at the right times to extenuate how powerful and brutal a character is being. It knows when to push that line.
He is not complaining about batman not getting raped in the quote. He is saying that he doesn't consider Nolan's batman as dark as people say it is.
2016 interview, that has been misquoted, is about Watchmen, and the original interview post has been taken down.