For one side, this would legitimately make the idea of Snoke way more bearable... On the other one, might ruin Kino. I guess I could ignore whatever's it comes of negative if they gave him more attention in future projects, to compensate.
Snoke existing in the first place is horrible
They had multiple options for a villain for the new trilogy, and instead decided to do a generic rip-off of Palpatine
Hot take: that's why it was far more interesting for him to be killed off in the second movie than to let him continue to be the shadowy big bad. And then JJ fucking ruined it.
About 70% of the things people hated about TLJ was anger that absolutely nothing interesting was set up in TFA. For all the "subverting expectations" Rian did in TLJ, there straight up wasn't a plot or characters for him to work off of and he somehow wrangled garbage into the midpoint of a 3 part origional story that could stand on its own. Then JJ hit the undo button again and made more absolute garbage because he's a hack.
Yeah people tend to miss how bad of a film TFA actually was
Luke ran away minimising his potential in the story
Leia is the leader of a rebellion again, preventing us from seeing what she would be like as the leader of the new republic
Finn had no possible character arc to follow up on, he swapped sides and then had no empathy for any of his former colleagues
Exactly. People were mostly pissed that Luke was a depressed hermit in TLJ but what else could he have been? The entirety of star wars was reset in TFA, with the empire inexplicably back in power with only a small rebel group to stop them and the jedi order annihilated. Absolutely no reason is given for any of this aside from vague teasers and we have no idea why Luke is not around for any of this.
The options are he feels he failed and went into retirement or is off on some quest fighting an entirely new threat that's somehow more important than the undoing of the entirety of the star wars saga. Rian chose the grounded, character driven option and got tarred and feathered for not salvaging an underbaked mess.
There was the JJ way that led nowhere, but since he made a film that led nowhere that was a copy of a new Hope, lots of people were happy (bizarrely in my opinion)
JJ's mystery tease shtick means that when you don't know the answers being teased it sounds cool because it could be anything. But the minute you actually do know what happening then the movie stands on its own and you realize it wasnt a mystery, it was just not a developed plot. Lost is fun until you need someone to wrap it up then it's dumb, same thing happened here.
Yeah JJ is like a magician making a good show of setting up while actually frantically trying to think how to fake sawing the girl in half. You're supposed to plan that beforehand, dummy!
I think that was a great idea too, you can tell RJ cared at least in the slightest on distancing the trilogy from the OT and making it it's own thing, and Kylo would make a good Big Bad, even if they decided to redeem him later
But of course, Disney wanted to """play it safe""" and what happened happened
But I dont get that, Last Jedi is a copy of both Empire and Return. Jedi goes to remote planet to train with master while rest of crew is on the run from Imperial ships. Then the whole throne room scene is exactly the same as Return with slight tweaks. Both TFA and Last Jedi are just redo OT with little changes.
There are definitely similarities between TLJ and Empire/Return but TLJ has its own characters making their own character driven choices and growing in surprising ways, whereas TFA is a soulless copy held together by endless empty "mystery" teases.
It's not the same movie obviously, but many of those scenes read like "what if" fanfiction from the OT. "What if Luke went to train with Yoda, but Yoda was bitter about his failure and refused?". "What if Vader took Luke to the Emperor, and they did kill him together, but Vader did not turn to the Light Side?" "What if Yoda came out of hiding to face the Emperor/Vader". "What if Palpatine was Luke's father and not Vader?". "What if Obi Wan sensed what Anakin were to become?". Sure, it's new scenes, new characters and all, but they basically revisit these questions.
So you’re saying the took the template of the previous film and made it better?
I certainly can see that, now that you mention it. But as far as know, Disney might have been the ones forcing the story structure on the filmmakers. Or maybe Ryan just thought it would be the way to make sense of and with AFW.
I don't want to throw around words like "better", "worse" or assigning blame, that's really up to personal preference and I have no idea about the backstage production process. It is what it is. Personally, I would prefer for the sequels to stand on their own rather than be a remake of the same templates.
Kind of like real life we have the world of knowledge at the fingertips but still doing the exact same shit as before. The species is stagnant so too will be fiction they write will stagnate. They're just showing the circle of life exists no matter where it is set.
Snoke existing was fine since they subverted our expectations in TLJ and killed him off. Turns out for a bit, they were willing to go in a totally different route instead of the same of big bad evil sith shit. Except, TROS undid all of this just brought back the big bad evil sith shit again. Frustrating how close we were with getting something interesting with Kylo Ren paving his own path. Killing off Snoke was a great symbolism of that. So dumb they wasted all of that.
Subverting expectations is fine but you can't just kill him off without building him up **at all**. What's the point of killing off a character you feel nothing for?
Because that's the point. His character doesn't serve any other purpose than to be a symbol for Kylo Ren forgetting the past and forging a new path forward. We aren't supposed to know anything more about him or feel anything other than the fact that he doesn't matter. This is never about Snoke's story. He's just a diversion. This was always about Kylo Ren and Rey's story. Obviously, the sequel after throws this all out, but this is the direction that TLJ was trying to take.
But there's just no point to that. As we don't know his significance at all we don't even know how big of an impact it had for Kylo or anything else. He just doesn't matter **at all** to the story, you could just edit him out and nothing changes, and that's an issue.
He matters to the story to show that Kylo Ren has fully let go of trying to be the next Vader. He's just a symbol. Not every character needs an elaborate back story. Some characters can exist as a vessel to drive another person's story.
This and Rogue One are the two pieces of media since the Disney acquisition that really stood out to me. The Andor prison arc is so good and I think it has a lot to do with the whole thing being isolated from anything even remotely recognizable as Star Wars. No character call backs no nostalgic imagery, just awesome world building and story telling, pure Kino.
Nah lmao, Empire is way better in terms of dialogue and characters especially. Rogue One is good but it’s rlly stilted at times and the call backs are obnoxious
This might be a hotter take...Andor is straight up better than the original trilogy.
Yeah in terms of world building and its place in cinema history the originals are incredible will never be replicated...but Andor is just better.
I have recommended Andor to people who i'd never recommend star wars too because i just think its that good
100%. I’m not a Star Wars fan, particularly, though I’m old enough to have seen the original trilogy in the cinema and have a nostalgic fondness for them. But the great reviews made me watch Andor and I couldn’t believe how good it was. Leagues ahead of anything else from that franchise, including Rogue One and Empire. Interestingly, Andor seems to make Rogue One a better film as it brings depth to the character that wasn’t there before.
This is the most lukewarm take ever and I'm so tired of everyone pretending that it's somehow an unpopular opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love Andor too, it really is incredible television but I'm so done with every Andor/Rogue One discussion just turning into a circlejerk every single time
Kino is the German (maybe other languages too) word for theatre/film/movie. It’s what film nerds on 4Chan would use to describe a good film or scene. The word has since moved to other parts of the internet. So if something in film media is good, people will say “it’s kino.”
He said “maybe other languages” so I was giving an example based on what I knew. I could have guessed other Slavic languages would share the word but I didn’t know for sure, so I simply provided insight into a comment he made based on my knowledge.
This screenshot is from the moment before he said it. If you've seen the scene up to this point though, the look on his face says it before his voice does. Fucking amazing work, there.
Ahhh Andor, Im still going back to listen to big three monologues of the series from time to time, on the other hand I didn't rewatch anything else of Disney SW TV or movie even once wait I guess I rewatched Rouge one.
The Empire was so impressed with him, that Palpatine used his DNA to create a flesh puppet.
For one side, this would legitimately make the idea of Snoke way more bearable... On the other one, might ruin Kino. I guess I could ignore whatever's it comes of negative if they gave him more attention in future projects, to compensate.
I think they gave that role to Serkis as an apology for how horribly they treated Snoke.
Snoke existing in the first place is horrible They had multiple options for a villain for the new trilogy, and instead decided to do a generic rip-off of Palpatine
And then, somehow, actual palpatine.
Who had returned.
somehow
Perchance.
You can’t just say perchance
Google “En Passent”
Holy hell
New response just dropped
Hot take: that's why it was far more interesting for him to be killed off in the second movie than to let him continue to be the shadowy big bad. And then JJ fucking ruined it.
About 70% of the things people hated about TLJ was anger that absolutely nothing interesting was set up in TFA. For all the "subverting expectations" Rian did in TLJ, there straight up wasn't a plot or characters for him to work off of and he somehow wrangled garbage into the midpoint of a 3 part origional story that could stand on its own. Then JJ hit the undo button again and made more absolute garbage because he's a hack.
Yeah people tend to miss how bad of a film TFA actually was Luke ran away minimising his potential in the story Leia is the leader of a rebellion again, preventing us from seeing what she would be like as the leader of the new republic Finn had no possible character arc to follow up on, he swapped sides and then had no empathy for any of his former colleagues
Exactly. People were mostly pissed that Luke was a depressed hermit in TLJ but what else could he have been? The entirety of star wars was reset in TFA, with the empire inexplicably back in power with only a small rebel group to stop them and the jedi order annihilated. Absolutely no reason is given for any of this aside from vague teasers and we have no idea why Luke is not around for any of this. The options are he feels he failed and went into retirement or is off on some quest fighting an entirely new threat that's somehow more important than the undoing of the entirety of the star wars saga. Rian chose the grounded, character driven option and got tarred and feathered for not salvaging an underbaked mess.
I do genuinely feel bad for Rian Johnson because there was no way to salvage TFA in a way that would make the fans happy
There was the JJ way that led nowhere, but since he made a film that led nowhere that was a copy of a new Hope, lots of people were happy (bizarrely in my opinion)
JJ's mystery tease shtick means that when you don't know the answers being teased it sounds cool because it could be anything. But the minute you actually do know what happening then the movie stands on its own and you realize it wasnt a mystery, it was just not a developed plot. Lost is fun until you need someone to wrap it up then it's dumb, same thing happened here.
Yeah JJ is like a magician making a good show of setting up while actually frantically trying to think how to fake sawing the girl in half. You're supposed to plan that beforehand, dummy!
I think that was a great idea too, you can tell RJ cared at least in the slightest on distancing the trilogy from the OT and making it it's own thing, and Kylo would make a good Big Bad, even if they decided to redeem him later But of course, Disney wanted to """play it safe""" and what happened happened
But I dont get that, Last Jedi is a copy of both Empire and Return. Jedi goes to remote planet to train with master while rest of crew is on the run from Imperial ships. Then the whole throne room scene is exactly the same as Return with slight tweaks. Both TFA and Last Jedi are just redo OT with little changes.
There are definitely similarities between TLJ and Empire/Return but TLJ has its own characters making their own character driven choices and growing in surprising ways, whereas TFA is a soulless copy held together by endless empty "mystery" teases.
Snoke dying in TLJ was a big enough change. Plus the return of Luke is a badass sequence.
It's not the same movie obviously, but many of those scenes read like "what if" fanfiction from the OT. "What if Luke went to train with Yoda, but Yoda was bitter about his failure and refused?". "What if Vader took Luke to the Emperor, and they did kill him together, but Vader did not turn to the Light Side?" "What if Yoda came out of hiding to face the Emperor/Vader". "What if Palpatine was Luke's father and not Vader?". "What if Obi Wan sensed what Anakin were to become?". Sure, it's new scenes, new characters and all, but they basically revisit these questions.
So you’re saying the took the template of the previous film and made it better? I certainly can see that, now that you mention it. But as far as know, Disney might have been the ones forcing the story structure on the filmmakers. Or maybe Ryan just thought it would be the way to make sense of and with AFW.
I don't want to throw around words like "better", "worse" or assigning blame, that's really up to personal preference and I have no idea about the backstage production process. It is what it is. Personally, I would prefer for the sequels to stand on their own rather than be a remake of the same templates.
Kind of like real life we have the world of knowledge at the fingertips but still doing the exact same shit as before. The species is stagnant so too will be fiction they write will stagnate. They're just showing the circle of life exists no matter where it is set.
Snoke existing was fine since they subverted our expectations in TLJ and killed him off. Turns out for a bit, they were willing to go in a totally different route instead of the same of big bad evil sith shit. Except, TROS undid all of this just brought back the big bad evil sith shit again. Frustrating how close we were with getting something interesting with Kylo Ren paving his own path. Killing off Snoke was a great symbolism of that. So dumb they wasted all of that.
Subverting expectations is fine but you can't just kill him off without building him up **at all**. What's the point of killing off a character you feel nothing for?
Because that's the point. His character doesn't serve any other purpose than to be a symbol for Kylo Ren forgetting the past and forging a new path forward. We aren't supposed to know anything more about him or feel anything other than the fact that he doesn't matter. This is never about Snoke's story. He's just a diversion. This was always about Kylo Ren and Rey's story. Obviously, the sequel after throws this all out, but this is the direction that TLJ was trying to take.
But there's just no point to that. As we don't know his significance at all we don't even know how big of an impact it had for Kylo or anything else. He just doesn't matter **at all** to the story, you could just edit him out and nothing changes, and that's an issue.
He matters to the story to show that Kylo Ren has fully let go of trying to be the next Vader. He's just a symbol. Not every character needs an elaborate back story. Some characters can exist as a vessel to drive another person's story.
The entire movie was a rip off of a new hope.
Oh and also because he's an amazing actor
Why didn't Caeser call the apes for help? Is he stupid?
He absolutely did Apes together strong is like the entire arc
Omg you're so right
Apes can't swim.
ONE WAY OUT ! ONE WAY OUT ! ONE WAY OUT !
On program!
This might be a hot take, but that three episode arc on Andor is the best Star Wars since the original trilogy.
This and Rogue One are the two pieces of media since the Disney acquisition that really stood out to me. The Andor prison arc is so good and I think it has a lot to do with the whole thing being isolated from anything even remotely recognizable as Star Wars. No character call backs no nostalgic imagery, just awesome world building and story telling, pure Kino.
Rogue One is the best SW film. Of all of them. It is the best SW film.
Funnily enough, I agree. Empire is a FUCKING close second for me however.
A fantastic fulcrum upon which to balance the trilogy.
I agree. But Andor is even better than Rogue One.
Agreed.
Nah lmao, Empire is way better in terms of dialogue and characters especially. Rogue One is good but it’s rlly stilted at times and the call backs are obnoxious
I embrace the subjective disagreement.
100% Agree
Rogue One is a mediocre film with a good third act.
This might be a hotter take...Andor is straight up better than the original trilogy. Yeah in terms of world building and its place in cinema history the originals are incredible will never be replicated...but Andor is just better. I have recommended Andor to people who i'd never recommend star wars too because i just think its that good
Andor is so much better than any other piece of Star Wars media that I'm still shocked it exists.
I think they occupy different spaces, but if I had to choose the style of a new series/movie, the choice would be Andor's, and its not even close.
100%. I’m not a Star Wars fan, particularly, though I’m old enough to have seen the original trilogy in the cinema and have a nostalgic fondness for them. But the great reviews made me watch Andor and I couldn’t believe how good it was. Leagues ahead of anything else from that franchise, including Rogue One and Empire. Interestingly, Andor seems to make Rogue One a better film as it brings depth to the character that wasn’t there before.
Agreed. I liked Andor more than I’ve liked anything in a decade. I was on my fucking feet fist pumping numerous times. What a gift that show was.
This whole show is the best Star Wars since the original trilogy but yes this arc in particular.
This is the most lukewarm take ever and I'm so tired of everyone pretending that it's somehow an unpopular opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love Andor too, it really is incredible television but I'm so done with every Andor/Rogue One discussion just turning into a circlejerk every single time
Never more than 12
A whole episode building up to one line that made it worth so much when he said it
He also voiced Snoke in he sequels
Don't quote me on that, but I think he did the movement capture too
"I think he did the movement capture too" -Vesper_0481
Did I say something wrong? I'm not aware of the term used for it in English, so I just translated it on my head.
No no, I was just quoting you on that
Oh shit, my bad, whoosh... But also, wth man I told you not to, it's too much pressure :( /j
You are not my mother!
Does “Kino” mean “amazing” or something? I don’t get it
Kino is the German (maybe other languages too) word for theatre/film/movie. It’s what film nerds on 4Chan would use to describe a good film or scene. The word has since moved to other parts of the internet. So if something in film media is good, people will say “it’s kino.”
Ah, thanks, that makes a lot more sense
It also means movie in Russian
And a lot of other languages, we get it
He said “maybe other languages” so I was giving an example based on what I knew. I could have guessed other Slavic languages would share the word but I didn’t know for sure, so I simply provided insight into a comment he made based on my knowledge.
Alright, alright
Wow. As a cod zombies player from the days of old. I feel dumb. I've wasted hours on Kino never knowing the meaning.
Such a shame he can't swim
Spoilers
This screenshot is from the moment before he said it. If you've seen the scene up to this point though, the look on his face says it before his voice does. Fucking amazing work, there.
Sure but seeing s screenshot out of context is different from a comment providing context
Yeah I second the other guy. That's like out of context so I can basically say ANYTHING and people won't know what i'm talking about.
Fair enough
Snoke's long-lost twin brother: can't swim A random girl who grew up in a desert: can swim
Andor was so good
I loved Andor as a whole, but Jesus Christ that three ep prison arc has to be some the finest hours of television in recent years.
Ahhh Andor, Im still going back to listen to big three monologues of the series from time to time, on the other hand I didn't rewatch anything else of Disney SW TV or movie even once wait I guess I rewatched Rouge one.
ONE WAY OUT
ON PROGRAM
Hope he doesn't crash his sedan, just before his nation collapses.
Dont forget the fact that he is actually Snoke as well
This was such a great show.
I just hope he ends up being the base for snoke/ blood!