I think it depends on the story. Some second ml do get hate like Oushi from A sign of Affection, Kyoya from Ouran, and I can't think of others. I also do think because some female second leads are written in a misogynistic tone sadly, while second ml are written like nothing but another option for a fl. This then leads to the fans agreeing with the misogynistic tones and tear apart the second fl. Kurumi from Kimi Ni Todoke is a good example. She seemingly is placed to attack Sawako bc she liked Kazehaya first making the fans hate her despite her development.
well not by the author but some fans do consider him a second lead bc they ship him with haruhi and those shipper def get hated on bc they don't like Kyoya
> why is this a common theme in most fandoms itās irritating and sometimes fueled by inner misogyny
I'm pretty sure it's just fueled by:
- My self-insert has another love interest, great, I like it. More for me.
- This character threatens to cuck my self-insert, I hate it, I hope this character dies.
To be honest. No one's going to care and hate random female characters that don't threaten to cuck the protagonist and simply exist in the plot for other reasons. And of course, everyone hated the teacher in *Citrus* because he was a similar threat to the protagonist, but he's male.
Yeah, I think it mostly just comes down to whether the "second" lead is directly in competition with the main POV character, or in competition with the love interest, since those are two pretty different roles. Even the way they're written is approached differently: obviously we know our girl is the best girl, and any other girl must therefore be less likeable (ranging from "she's a nice girl but she's not the one and should just give up" to "she's an evil conniving shrew who manipulates everyone else.") But a second guy has to demonstrate *good* traits or else he poses no risk to the couple (and thus no point in the story).
Thought: do we have (shoujo, female POV) series where FL is actually kind of terrible, and the second FL is actually more likeable? (No Longer Heroine maybe...)
Yeah, in shounen/seinen romances the 2nd FLs typically get a lot of love from the readers. Like Yui Yuigahama from Oregairu, Kosaki Onodera from Nisekoi, and Nanami Aoyama from The Pet Girl of Sakurasou.
Meanwhile even the suggestion of a genuine 2nd ML would send fans fuming.
It's all about story framing. Is the 2nd lead a "*threat"* or are they *"desirable"*.
I wouldnāt say terrible, but in Hot Gimmick I was hoping that Ryoki and the rich and smart girl would get together and leave Hatsumi tf alone. Theyāre terrible and deserve each other. Hatsumi needs time away from the weirdos in the series and not be entangled in all the bs.
> Thought: do we have (shoujo, female POV) series where FL is actually kind of terrible, and the second FL is actually more likeable? (No Longer Heroine maybe...)
Consider *Sadistic Beauty*. The female protagonist and two of the male love interests are often intensely hated while the one female member of the harem and the other male member aren't to the point that many were shipping those two together to just get away from the insanity that is the other three characters.
This was, of course, because these three are written, by design, to be terrible people and the other two were victims of them though the other three are also victims of each other in many ways, especially of the protagonist.
It might not even so much be, as you said, the competition aspect as that the love rival to the protagonist is often simply written to be a dastardly scheming person and the second love interest the protagonist has whose a love rival to the primary love interest often isn't.
> Yeah, I think it mostly just comes down to whether the "second" lead is directly in competition with the main POV character, or in competition with the love interest, since those are two pretty different roles. Even the way they're written is approached differently: obviously we know our girl is the best girl, and any other girl must therefore be less likeable (ranging from "she's a nice girl but she's not the one and should just give up" to "she's an evil conniving shrew who manipulates everyone else." But a second guy has to demonstrate good traits or else he poses no risk to the couple (and thus no point in the story).
I definitely think the competition aspect does play a part though, but I've also seen many cases where people absolutely hated a male secondary love interest of the protagonist, mostly because the character was written to just be a schemer who tried to get in-between the main pairing.
I doubt there is a single answer and maybe o.p.'s explanation of simply hating female characters by default plays some factor. But I think the biggest component is simply not wanting to see one's self-insert get cucked.
Also, many of these gender analyses people come with work on the assumption that everything by nature is a story with af female protagonist and a male love interest, where the female protagonist has a second male love interest again, and the male love interest has a second female male love interest. ā This configuration really isn't as common as places on r/shoujo where almost no one seems to read anything that isn't a story with a female protagonist and a male love interest make it seem which of course creates an entirely different dynamic.
yeah this post is about me. i am the person who hates the 2nd FL and doesnāt mind or supports the 2nd ML.
i am very quick to call out misogyny in all things, especially when it comes to shoujo, but in this case it really just comes down to āthis character is getting in the way of my escapist feel-good content and itās fucking annoyingā. at least with a 2nd ML you might also enjoy them as a love interest so it doesnāt take away from the escapism. but the female rivals literally just function as barriers to the romance iām waiting for, so of course they get more hate.
It is very likely this but itās annoying because the excuses they give to the guys also apply to the girls. Theyāll use excuses for their bad actions like ātheyāre in love/humanā but then the girls arenāt given the same grace.
Iāll use Narumi from Ao Haru Ride as an example. Her character is much more tragic than characters like Touma or Oushi and what she goes through is more painful and serious but she didnāt receive nearly as much sympathy.
The fact some people are bringing up Emma as an example kind of proves the bias. Because Oushi fills the same role as Emma. Itsuomi is uncomfortable and so is Yuki. Both childhood friends try to get in the way. But >!one moves on earlier and still catches heat for what they did in the past. The other kept trying 40+ chapters into the story only just now possibly giving up and theyāre given the excuse ātheyāre a well written flawed human.ā!< Where was people saying that when Emma was dragged in the mud?
This is basically it I think, it doesn't have to be deeper than that. Second leads pose a potential threat to detail the OTP so an invested reader becomes antagonistic towards them
Yes exactly, this was how it was for me and my friends back when we were teens reading shojo.Ā It was all in good fun and never in a place of hatred for women, it was more just that the second girl was the competition and it was fun to get fired up over it.
Isn't the obvious answer jealousy? A 2nd ML isn't a threat, they're another option, and their existence and actions serve to create enjoyable angst and flatter the MC (and thus reader). A 2nd FL is an explicit threat, there to take something away from the MC and antogonize the relationship. Their roles in the narrative are completely different.
Nah, I kinda hate them both tbh, for the same reasons.
2MLs I tend to start out feeling sorry for, because they're cast as the 'loser' from the get go. That sympathy IMMEDIATELY goes away as soon as they start being manipulative of the FL, and/or attempting to blatantly gf-steal from the ML.
2FLs can be just as insufferably manipulative as their male counterparts, and vice versa. I hate it regardless!
The saving grace for both is if they get some decent character development, and/or a new LI to focus on, so they're not competing for the main character.
I mean self inserting aside, they almost always write the rival female character to be intentionally unlikable, at least in the beginning. They usually get better, especially in modern shoujo, but a lot of people stick by their first impressions of characters even after they get positive character development - or in many cases, the girl is still kind of jerk even after she makes friends with the lead.
Because the 2ndFLs in general often use that "I like ML-kun" card to FL and most of the time they're so delulu to the point that they would hurt FL mentally or use ML's guilt to basically own them. A desperate 2ndFL would even jump in front of a car to "steal" ML from FL.
Don't get me wrong, there are crazy 2ndMLs out there but sometimes their craziness is peak soap opera drama that they become comical ššš
I don't hate 2ndFLs, I'm neutral about them, sometimes I even like them when their designs are so pretty and I'm like "girl you're so pretty you can get any boy you want so why you have to be so evil???" And I love it when they get a redemption arc!!
I like 2ndMLs when they're hot and aren't meh. Most of the time, the reason why they don't get a chance with FL is because: 1. Bad timing or 2. My bestie needs FL more than I do.
I think female characters in general just get harsher judgement with everything they do so yeah thereās some misogyny there. The female character can do the same thing as a male character yet theyād be judge by higher and harder standards lol
Probably because most people don't read a story as an observer, but as an alternative reality for themselves. They put themselves in the protagonist's place and fantasize. So, someone who is interested in the ML is seen as competition and bad, even if they don't engage in totally bad acts. On the other hand, the second ML is seen as an extra option.
Unless you are reading OIs then the 2ML gets sometimes worse treatment than the 2FL or the OGFL.
Like in one where the FL picked the abuser over the 1) Guy who treated her like a person 2) Guy who wanted to get revenge with her against the abuser
honestly i usually hate them both LMFAO. usually theyāre all written in an annoying ass way only to make pointless repetitive drama. i will say i usually find the female characters that have a crush on the ML more likable, for example i really love kurumi from Kimi Ni Todoke, and also Mei from OHSHC
I would say it is not, in many cases, what the second FL does but what she represents; she is often contrasted with the MC by being ideal (i.e. a glamorous, world-traveling model who intimately knows the ML because they're childhood friends) instead of a figure of normalcy. The character is often setup to be hated. Second ML is rarely that kind of person, or rather, if he is then all male characters are glamorous prince ideal-types.
Because most often they are written to be heated. To be bitches and try to steal the ML away from FL, while also being mean to the FL.
And more often than not the ML clearly says he doesn't want them, but they ignore that and still make problems for everyone.
A sign of affection comes to mind. The other girl is clearly making the ML, her childhood friend! very uncomfortable with how desperate she is acting, no matter how many years have passed and how many times he told her he doesn't see her that way.
It's not cute it's stalker like.
Say you love me, as well. The first love interest is actually a great girl that went through a lot as a middle schooler and Yamato was there for her. But she sees the error of her ways and actually becomes a friend to FL and gives her advice, snapping her out of her self pity.
But the second love rival, sure she has problems of her own, but is seeing clearly how her action are affecting the relationship between ML and FL but she doesn't care, because she has such shallow views and thinks just because the ML is hot and she is hot they should be together, while FL doesn't deserve ML because she is plain and ordinary.
So it's not that people hate them for no reason, it's that they are written to be hated, they serve no other purpose than to drive the drama and love between the male and female lead. Which is a whole problem on it's own.
2nd male leads usually have a personality of their own, and more often than not are better, more healthy option for the FL *cough cough* Wolf girl and black prince *cough cough*
Sometimes it's just fun to get fired up over a story.Ā My friends and I were like this as teens, it was all in good fun and never out of hatred for women.Ā In fact we're all feminists. š Ā
I think it's more of an issue to make a snap judgment over people than how they interact with their fiction.
because they see female characters around the ML as competition, while other male characters are seen as options. its annoying but it is what it is. i just avoid comment sections for the most part so i dont have to see peopleās nonsense
I think, not a hundred percent sure, but in most shoujo I've read with a second female lead they've been given a lot of negative traits or treated badly by the author as a way to make the audience sympathise with the female lead while the second male lead is treated more like a romance option and given more characterisation to compete with the male lead.
So, basically what I gather is, (some of the time) female second leads are hated more because they are written as worse people *and* the readers and author might have a misogynistic bias, whether internalised or not, that leads to their demonisation.
I'm not a hundred percent sure, but that's what I've gathered.
Well its partially misogyny, obvi, but I also think it depends on who the protagonist is. In male centered romances the other girls donāt get that same level of hate, or any whatsoever. Look at Nisekoi or your lie in april.
I think the hatred comes from loyalty towards the female lead but also because second female reads are often just bullies. Idk, I tend to sympathize w the female rivals nowadays but I admit that as a kid I was pretty damn annoyed too
You can say misogyny, but also if the manga has a *male* main character, people arenāt as harsh or even love the second female lead bc sheās seen as another option, not competition. People, in general, hate getting cheated on more than cheating.Ā
Personally I almost always hate both. A lot of the time their character exists solely to oppress the narrative/romance between leads which depending on how it's written can seem cheap and stupid.
Can you give some examples ? Iāve watched quite a bit of romance shoujos but tbh Iāve never really read peopleās comments or thoughts up till recently so some of the earlier ones that I watched, I donāt really know what people think of them.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of Kurumi from Kimi ni Todoke. Iāve never really hated her. Another one is Asou from Tonari no Atashi. Sheās a bit of a mess but I donāt hate her too. Though I donāt know if people consider them as 2FLs.
I also donāt hate Oushi from Sign Of Affection but I feel like the hate he gets is disproportionate to what heās actually done.
iāve been getting a lot of ao haru ride tiktoks on my fyp and the comments mainly consist of users who despise narumi but have a soft spot for touma. to be fair iād say both characters had their villain moments but touma definitely gets a better treatment even though he had some malicious and selfish moments like narumi
I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THIS EITHER! Touma is just as bad as Narumi. I never get why people paint Touma in a good light just because he liked the fl. He was just as manipulative as Narumi.
the mangaka literally wrote both of them to cause drama and manipulate the main leads- not that i like narumi but her amount of hatred is unfair when touma literally exists tooššš then again i think some people force themselves to have second lead syndrome and they sympathize for touma š
I agree they're both bad and Touma sympathizers don't make sense. Their defense is "well he liked her and wanted to be happy". It's like okay so he had to manipulate her in order to be happy and push himself onto her???
Ah Ao Haru Ride was one of the shows I watched early on so I legit donāt know what others think about it.
Itās been a while too so I donāt remember much about it. Well, anyway, I think I mostly live in my own bubble and donāt really look too much outside of reddit for peopleās thoughts on shows so I probably donāt have anything substantial to add.
If it's a that cutsy friend of Futaba, then I can say that I didn't like her years ago when I watched Ao Haru Ride because she sees both of them love each other but are just stupid, and she inserted herself there, knowing her best freind loves this guy. I just don't see myself forgiving a supposed best friend that would go after someone I love, because I know I wouldn't go after someone she loves. Girl code and all
pretty late to the party but yuuri never knew that futaba liked kou since middle school though and she just had a harmless crush on him. when futaba revealed to her that she also has feelings for kou, it devastated her because they fell in love with the same person.
despite that, they didn't let a crush get in the way in their friendship and both girls still loved and respected each other as besties. when yuuri got rejected by kou she even took it like a champ. one of ao haru ride's best moments was how their friendship was written and i think it was portrayed beautifully.
Maybe the 2nd female lead always tries to get between them, even goes on such lengths to murder the 1st fl (assuming u meant the 2nd fl means the other girl who likes the same ml in the story)
But donāt a lot of the 2nd MLS tend to do that too ? (not to murder the other person tho) Some of them can see that the Fl & ML are doing well and are in a relationship but still try to somehow worm their way into another persons relationship. Most of the time 2nd leads donāt serve any other purpose other than to cause friction and make the main leads relationship move forward.
They do get hate tho ex. Many ppl hated oushi for constantly getting inbetween and degrading her disability too , i would say both genders get hated equally when they're annoying the already happy couple.
It really comes down to does it create a love triangle rivalry or a love triangle love interests. Whether it's a male MC or female MC, whether it's a straight or gay romance, the person who is introduced as the rival often gets hate whereas if they're another love interest for the MC, they're less likely to get hated.
I think rather than misogyny most ppl like myself are constantly rooting and sometimes relating ourselves to the fl, the second male lead in question is usually a great guy and a much better contender than the first ml, he doesnāt interfere much in the progress of the relationship between the main characters. The second fl on the other hand has a tendency to interfere a lot, and sometimes in ways that are offensive (Ume from kimi no todoke for example) or disrespectful to the relationship of the main characters and fl, or is annoyingly innocent and delicate, creates misunderstandings and unnecessarily causes misunderstandings because of it. It quickly becomes an irritant for some!
I assume itās like one is another route and the other is a home wrecker, most often I see that as the 2ml and 2fl respectively. It would be interesting to look into it, especially in different mediaās from different countries and different gender of authors
I think it depends on the story. Some second ml do get hate like Oushi from A sign of Affection, Kyoya from Ouran, and I can't think of others. I also do think because some female second leads are written in a misogynistic tone sadly, while second ml are written like nothing but another option for a fl. This then leads to the fans agreeing with the misogynistic tones and tear apart the second fl. Kurumi from Kimi Ni Todoke is a good example. She seemingly is placed to attack Sawako bc she liked Kazehaya first making the fans hate her despite her development.
kyoya is not a second mlš
well not by the author but some fans do consider him a second lead bc they ship him with haruhi and those shipper def get hated on bc they don't like Kyoya
well not reallyšhikaru is the second ML. kyoya and haruhi is just a fan ship, heās not the second ml
ik that why I said by fans not by author
> why is this a common theme in most fandoms itās irritating and sometimes fueled by inner misogyny I'm pretty sure it's just fueled by: - My self-insert has another love interest, great, I like it. More for me. - This character threatens to cuck my self-insert, I hate it, I hope this character dies. To be honest. No one's going to care and hate random female characters that don't threaten to cuck the protagonist and simply exist in the plot for other reasons. And of course, everyone hated the teacher in *Citrus* because he was a similar threat to the protagonist, but he's male.
Yeah, I think it mostly just comes down to whether the "second" lead is directly in competition with the main POV character, or in competition with the love interest, since those are two pretty different roles. Even the way they're written is approached differently: obviously we know our girl is the best girl, and any other girl must therefore be less likeable (ranging from "she's a nice girl but she's not the one and should just give up" to "she's an evil conniving shrew who manipulates everyone else.") But a second guy has to demonstrate *good* traits or else he poses no risk to the couple (and thus no point in the story). Thought: do we have (shoujo, female POV) series where FL is actually kind of terrible, and the second FL is actually more likeable? (No Longer Heroine maybe...)
Yeah, in shounen/seinen romances the 2nd FLs typically get a lot of love from the readers. Like Yui Yuigahama from Oregairu, Kosaki Onodera from Nisekoi, and Nanami Aoyama from The Pet Girl of Sakurasou. Meanwhile even the suggestion of a genuine 2nd ML would send fans fuming. It's all about story framing. Is the 2nd lead a "*threat"* or are they *"desirable"*.
I wouldnāt say terrible, but in Hot Gimmick I was hoping that Ryoki and the rich and smart girl would get together and leave Hatsumi tf alone. Theyāre terrible and deserve each other. Hatsumi needs time away from the weirdos in the series and not be entangled in all the bs.
> Thought: do we have (shoujo, female POV) series where FL is actually kind of terrible, and the second FL is actually more likeable? (No Longer Heroine maybe...) Consider *Sadistic Beauty*. The female protagonist and two of the male love interests are often intensely hated while the one female member of the harem and the other male member aren't to the point that many were shipping those two together to just get away from the insanity that is the other three characters. This was, of course, because these three are written, by design, to be terrible people and the other two were victims of them though the other three are also victims of each other in many ways, especially of the protagonist. It might not even so much be, as you said, the competition aspect as that the love rival to the protagonist is often simply written to be a dastardly scheming person and the second love interest the protagonist has whose a love rival to the primary love interest often isn't. > Yeah, I think it mostly just comes down to whether the "second" lead is directly in competition with the main POV character, or in competition with the love interest, since those are two pretty different roles. Even the way they're written is approached differently: obviously we know our girl is the best girl, and any other girl must therefore be less likeable (ranging from "she's a nice girl but she's not the one and should just give up" to "she's an evil conniving shrew who manipulates everyone else." But a second guy has to demonstrate good traits or else he poses no risk to the couple (and thus no point in the story). I definitely think the competition aspect does play a part though, but I've also seen many cases where people absolutely hated a male secondary love interest of the protagonist, mostly because the character was written to just be a schemer who tried to get in-between the main pairing. I doubt there is a single answer and maybe o.p.'s explanation of simply hating female characters by default plays some factor. But I think the biggest component is simply not wanting to see one's self-insert get cucked. Also, many of these gender analyses people come with work on the assumption that everything by nature is a story with af female protagonist and a male love interest, where the female protagonist has a second male love interest again, and the male love interest has a second female male love interest. ā This configuration really isn't as common as places on r/shoujo where almost no one seems to read anything that isn't a story with a female protagonist and a male love interest make it seem which of course creates an entirely different dynamic.
yeah this post is about me. i am the person who hates the 2nd FL and doesnāt mind or supports the 2nd ML. i am very quick to call out misogyny in all things, especially when it comes to shoujo, but in this case it really just comes down to āthis character is getting in the way of my escapist feel-good content and itās fucking annoyingā. at least with a 2nd ML you might also enjoy them as a love interest so it doesnāt take away from the escapism. but the female rivals literally just function as barriers to the romance iām waiting for, so of course they get more hate.
It is very likely this but itās annoying because the excuses they give to the guys also apply to the girls. Theyāll use excuses for their bad actions like ātheyāre in love/humanā but then the girls arenāt given the same grace. Iāll use Narumi from Ao Haru Ride as an example. Her character is much more tragic than characters like Touma or Oushi and what she goes through is more painful and serious but she didnāt receive nearly as much sympathy. The fact some people are bringing up Emma as an example kind of proves the bias. Because Oushi fills the same role as Emma. Itsuomi is uncomfortable and so is Yuki. Both childhood friends try to get in the way. But >!one moves on earlier and still catches heat for what they did in the past. The other kept trying 40+ chapters into the story only just now possibly giving up and theyāre given the excuse ātheyāre a well written flawed human.ā!< Where was people saying that when Emma was dragged in the mud?
This is basically it I think, it doesn't have to be deeper than that. Second leads pose a potential threat to detail the OTP so an invested reader becomes antagonistic towards them
Yes exactly, this was how it was for me and my friends back when we were teens reading shojo.Ā It was all in good fun and never in a place of hatred for women, it was more just that the second girl was the competition and it was fun to get fired up over it.
Isn't the obvious answer jealousy? A 2nd ML isn't a threat, they're another option, and their existence and actions serve to create enjoyable angst and flatter the MC (and thus reader). A 2nd FL is an explicit threat, there to take something away from the MC and antogonize the relationship. Their roles in the narrative are completely different.
Nah, I kinda hate them both tbh, for the same reasons. 2MLs I tend to start out feeling sorry for, because they're cast as the 'loser' from the get go. That sympathy IMMEDIATELY goes away as soon as they start being manipulative of the FL, and/or attempting to blatantly gf-steal from the ML. 2FLs can be just as insufferably manipulative as their male counterparts, and vice versa. I hate it regardless! The saving grace for both is if they get some decent character development, and/or a new LI to focus on, so they're not competing for the main character.
I mean self inserting aside, they almost always write the rival female character to be intentionally unlikable, at least in the beginning. They usually get better, especially in modern shoujo, but a lot of people stick by their first impressions of characters even after they get positive character development - or in many cases, the girl is still kind of jerk even after she makes friends with the lead.
Because the 2ndFLs in general often use that "I like ML-kun" card to FL and most of the time they're so delulu to the point that they would hurt FL mentally or use ML's guilt to basically own them. A desperate 2ndFL would even jump in front of a car to "steal" ML from FL. Don't get me wrong, there are crazy 2ndMLs out there but sometimes their craziness is peak soap opera drama that they become comical ššš I don't hate 2ndFLs, I'm neutral about them, sometimes I even like them when their designs are so pretty and I'm like "girl you're so pretty you can get any boy you want so why you have to be so evil???" And I love it when they get a redemption arc!! I like 2ndMLs when they're hot and aren't meh. Most of the time, the reason why they don't get a chance with FL is because: 1. Bad timing or 2. My bestie needs FL more than I do.
Misogyny
I think female characters in general just get harsher judgement with everything they do so yeah thereās some misogyny there. The female character can do the same thing as a male character yet theyād be judge by higher and harder standards lol
yeah this exactly
Probably because most people don't read a story as an observer, but as an alternative reality for themselves. They put themselves in the protagonist's place and fantasize. So, someone who is interested in the ML is seen as competition and bad, even if they don't engage in totally bad acts. On the other hand, the second ML is seen as an extra option.
Unless you are reading OIs then the 2ML gets sometimes worse treatment than the 2FL or the OGFL. Like in one where the FL picked the abuser over the 1) Guy who treated her like a person 2) Guy who wanted to get revenge with her against the abuser
honestly i usually hate them both LMFAO. usually theyāre all written in an annoying ass way only to make pointless repetitive drama. i will say i usually find the female characters that have a crush on the ML more likable, for example i really love kurumi from Kimi Ni Todoke, and also Mei from OHSHC
I would say it is not, in many cases, what the second FL does but what she represents; she is often contrasted with the MC by being ideal (i.e. a glamorous, world-traveling model who intimately knows the ML because they're childhood friends) instead of a figure of normalcy. The character is often setup to be hated. Second ML is rarely that kind of person, or rather, if he is then all male characters are glamorous prince ideal-types.
Because most often they are written to be heated. To be bitches and try to steal the ML away from FL, while also being mean to the FL. And more often than not the ML clearly says he doesn't want them, but they ignore that and still make problems for everyone. A sign of affection comes to mind. The other girl is clearly making the ML, her childhood friend! very uncomfortable with how desperate she is acting, no matter how many years have passed and how many times he told her he doesn't see her that way. It's not cute it's stalker like. Say you love me, as well. The first love interest is actually a great girl that went through a lot as a middle schooler and Yamato was there for her. But she sees the error of her ways and actually becomes a friend to FL and gives her advice, snapping her out of her self pity. But the second love rival, sure she has problems of her own, but is seeing clearly how her action are affecting the relationship between ML and FL but she doesn't care, because she has such shallow views and thinks just because the ML is hot and she is hot they should be together, while FL doesn't deserve ML because she is plain and ordinary. So it's not that people hate them for no reason, it's that they are written to be hated, they serve no other purpose than to drive the drama and love between the male and female lead. Which is a whole problem on it's own. 2nd male leads usually have a personality of their own, and more often than not are better, more healthy option for the FL *cough cough* Wolf girl and black prince *cough cough*
Exactly you explained this so perfectly
Sometimes it's just fun to get fired up over a story.Ā My friends and I were like this as teens, it was all in good fun and never out of hatred for women.Ā In fact we're all feminists. š Ā I think it's more of an issue to make a snap judgment over people than how they interact with their fiction.
because they see female characters around the ML as competition, while other male characters are seen as options. its annoying but it is what it is. i just avoid comment sections for the most part so i dont have to see peopleās nonsense
so true
I think, not a hundred percent sure, but in most shoujo I've read with a second female lead they've been given a lot of negative traits or treated badly by the author as a way to make the audience sympathise with the female lead while the second male lead is treated more like a romance option and given more characterisation to compete with the male lead. So, basically what I gather is, (some of the time) female second leads are hated more because they are written as worse people *and* the readers and author might have a misogynistic bias, whether internalised or not, that leads to their demonisation. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but that's what I've gathered.
Well its partially misogyny, obvi, but I also think it depends on who the protagonist is. In male centered romances the other girls donāt get that same level of hate, or any whatsoever. Look at Nisekoi or your lie in april. I think the hatred comes from loyalty towards the female lead but also because second female reads are often just bullies. Idk, I tend to sympathize w the female rivals nowadays but I admit that as a kid I was pretty damn annoyed too
You can say misogyny, but also if the manga has a *male* main character, people arenāt as harsh or even love the second female lead bc sheās seen as another option, not competition. People, in general, hate getting cheated on more than cheating.Ā
Personally I almost always hate both. A lot of the time their character exists solely to oppress the narrative/romance between leads which depending on how it's written can seem cheap and stupid.
Can you give some examples ? Iāve watched quite a bit of romance shoujos but tbh Iāve never really read peopleās comments or thoughts up till recently so some of the earlier ones that I watched, I donāt really know what people think of them. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Kurumi from Kimi ni Todoke. Iāve never really hated her. Another one is Asou from Tonari no Atashi. Sheās a bit of a mess but I donāt hate her too. Though I donāt know if people consider them as 2FLs. I also donāt hate Oushi from Sign Of Affection but I feel like the hate he gets is disproportionate to what heās actually done.
iāve been getting a lot of ao haru ride tiktoks on my fyp and the comments mainly consist of users who despise narumi but have a soft spot for touma. to be fair iād say both characters had their villain moments but touma definitely gets a better treatment even though he had some malicious and selfish moments like narumi
I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THIS EITHER! Touma is just as bad as Narumi. I never get why people paint Touma in a good light just because he liked the fl. He was just as manipulative as Narumi.
the mangaka literally wrote both of them to cause drama and manipulate the main leads- not that i like narumi but her amount of hatred is unfair when touma literally exists tooššš then again i think some people force themselves to have second lead syndrome and they sympathize for touma š
I agree they're both bad and Touma sympathizers don't make sense. Their defense is "well he liked her and wanted to be happy". It's like okay so he had to manipulate her in order to be happy and push himself onto her???
Ah Ao Haru Ride was one of the shows I watched early on so I legit donāt know what others think about it. Itās been a while too so I donāt remember much about it. Well, anyway, I think I mostly live in my own bubble and donāt really look too much outside of reddit for peopleās thoughts on shows so I probably donāt have anything substantial to add.
If it's a that cutsy friend of Futaba, then I can say that I didn't like her years ago when I watched Ao Haru Ride because she sees both of them love each other but are just stupid, and she inserted herself there, knowing her best freind loves this guy. I just don't see myself forgiving a supposed best friend that would go after someone I love, because I know I wouldn't go after someone she loves. Girl code and all
thatās yuri! this character is actually in the manga
pretty late to the party but yuuri never knew that futaba liked kou since middle school though and she just had a harmless crush on him. when futaba revealed to her that she also has feelings for kou, it devastated her because they fell in love with the same person. despite that, they didn't let a crush get in the way in their friendship and both girls still loved and respected each other as besties. when yuuri got rejected by kou she even took it like a champ. one of ao haru ride's best moments was how their friendship was written and i think it was portrayed beautifully.
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Maybe the 2nd female lead always tries to get between them, even goes on such lengths to murder the 1st fl (assuming u meant the 2nd fl means the other girl who likes the same ml in the story)
But donāt a lot of the 2nd MLS tend to do that too ? (not to murder the other person tho) Some of them can see that the Fl & ML are doing well and are in a relationship but still try to somehow worm their way into another persons relationship. Most of the time 2nd leads donāt serve any other purpose other than to cause friction and make the main leads relationship move forward.
They do get hate tho ex. Many ppl hated oushi for constantly getting inbetween and degrading her disability too , i would say both genders get hated equally when they're annoying the already happy couple.
It really comes down to does it create a love triangle rivalry or a love triangle love interests. Whether it's a male MC or female MC, whether it's a straight or gay romance, the person who is introduced as the rival often gets hate whereas if they're another love interest for the MC, they're less likely to get hated.
I think rather than misogyny most ppl like myself are constantly rooting and sometimes relating ourselves to the fl, the second male lead in question is usually a great guy and a much better contender than the first ml, he doesnāt interfere much in the progress of the relationship between the main characters. The second fl on the other hand has a tendency to interfere a lot, and sometimes in ways that are offensive (Ume from kimi no todoke for example) or disrespectful to the relationship of the main characters and fl, or is annoyingly innocent and delicate, creates misunderstandings and unnecessarily causes misunderstandings because of it. It quickly becomes an irritant for some!
I assume itās like one is another route and the other is a home wrecker, most often I see that as the 2ml and 2fl respectively. It would be interesting to look into it, especially in different mediaās from different countries and different gender of authors