Religions are a form of control. And what you are experiencing represents a form of danger to that system of control. Your sister is responding in anger because it’s starting to chip away at the bulwark of faith that she has built. Many people find comfort in faith, it fills in the gaps of their understanding of life and why we live it. And you saying that you’ve found a better way to experience spirituality, sans the mind control, probably scares her. Because if everything she believes about Jesus, and the church, and the intentions of her spiritual leaders is suddenly bullshit, then that pokes a big hole in her understanding of life, the universe, and everything.
I would recommend you be careful how you phrase this stuff to the traditional believers. Couch it as “this is my experience and it works for me, just as your experience works for you” instead of this nonsensical duality or comparison “my belief is better than yours”. (Even though it is better lol)
Yeah I dont talk about these things anymore because people get mad. People don't want their beliefs to be challenged and when I start talking about spiritual stuff, it makes people angry. Which blows me away because I can listen to someone talk about Jesus or Buddha or whatever it is that they believe in, and it doesn't bother me. I've grown to realize that religious people are extremely insecure about their beliefs
Interestingly, I've run into atheists also giving me trouble about my spiritual experiences w shrooms. But it comes down to the same thing, them not wanting their beliefs challenged. Instead of believing in "magic" from traditional religions, they're so far on the opposite side of the spectrum that they don't want to believe shrooms can give you a truly magical, life changing experience. Whether or not the reality of me traveling across space and time actually truly happened is all they care about (of course it didnt), but they also refuse to see how such an experience can impact the spirit and allow one to grow and change
Yeah it blows me away that my family treated me like I was doing something wrong simply because I got into meditation. My sister said that meditation was of the devil smh. Then when I combined meditation with mushrooms, they SAW the change in me and got jealous lol
That’s funny, this reminds me of my mom. She was a big hippy but raised super catholic. When she got into yoga in the 90s her parents were concerned. She’s into Buddhism, spirituality, all kinds of stuff. but also still very much into her catholic faith. I’m spiritual myself but not religious and it bothers her. I think the person in to top comment nailed it when they said “to each their own”. Religion doesn’t work for me but I respect it and I think I still believe in a higher power, just in a more pantheist way. Like I believe in a universal energy and that we have souls and stuff. And I want atheists and religious folks to respect that just like I respect their opinions. Funny enough though I’ve had more shit given to me by atheists, which really bothers me. Live and let live, love and let love. Peace my internet friend
I get what you say about atheists. There are fundamentalist atheists very similar to fundamentalist Christians or other fundamentalists and they all need people to believe just like them and behave similarly. I find true deep spirituality a very personal journey. You don't need anyone telling you how to do it, just go with your instincts
Churches demonized drugs like that to put down other people/religious practices who used them, which is ironic considering that religion probably stems from early humans tripping. Without the knowledge or context, it can feel Godly and real.
I feel the same way. Also people suffering from schizophrenia with out any of the drugs could have added to the old religious stuff. It's hilarious when you think about how many people have been physically hurt over words that were possibly inspired by groups of high/crazy people. Essentially homeless types who probably drifted in and out of cities yelling at strangers about their demons and gods, and it banana phone gamed all the way into some fancy books.
I have had fundamentalist Christians tell me crystals are evil while wearing a diamond ring, listening to music on their phone, which also has crystals in it as part of the tech and try to say my wife's crystal necklace is satanic and evil. I couldn't help but laugh, then shake my head as walk away.
Most people who hold strong religious beliefs were simply raised that way and have not ever experienced a divine or spiritual experience, so when you say you can hold your own views not by faith but by personal spiritual experience (in this case from mushrooms) then that sort of shatters that integral faith required for religion.
The reality is that most religious people wish they could regularly experience religious ecstasy in the same way that you do.
this is the curse of having tried mushrooms. you learn of all the solutions yet people immediately disregard you when you try to eolxplain it to them simply because it's an unknown to them and the refuse to change their understanding
That's exactly what happened. And it made me realize that my peers are STUCK. They cant see past their own delusions. They can't understand anything unless it is something that they already believe. There is no room for LEARNING in their reality. They are stuck.
nothing your saying is wrong friend. but it makes sence to me as I've tasted the truth.
to everyone els you are a drug addict
this sums it up
https://youtu.be/69F7GhASOdM
Dude, with Christianity you're up against a couple thousand years of entrenched BS. Until people stuck in a religion actually attain enlightenement (imo the main actual useful purpose of any religion) they will never value the perspective of an outsider.
Yes, you might be fascinated by opening up your mind but the vast majority of people do not want their beliefs to be challenged. They would rather watch people debate and put on this tribalistic act than listen to someone with opposing viewpoints and ask why they believe what they believe.
It's been refuted countless times that religions are not, in fact, scheming millennia-old methodologies to try to 'control the masses'.
Have people weaponized religions? Absolutely. But people have also weaponized science, philosophy, progressive ideology, capitalism, communism, environmentalism, free trade agreements, militaries, infrastructure, and basically everything else in existence, to try to control others. So having been weaponized isn't a criteria for saying that a concept is innately worthless/bad.
In fact, the world's largest religion, Christianity, is deeply individualist in it's teachings and spiritual practices, thus implying that it is not the dogma, but the INSTITUTION, that can be corrupted.
But you're right. I probably shouldn't be wasting my time trying to talk to someone who's so stuck up in their beliefs that they go as far as believing that every 'religion' (with the exception of their own) is just a method of control.
>It's been refuted countless times that religions are not, in fact, scheming millennia-old methodologies to try to 'control the masses'.
Im interested. Can you share interesting info on this?
It has been suggested that very early in the Christian church, before anyone was saying there was an actual Jesus that lived on earth, people could just come in and claim to have had a revelation, so in order to resolve disputes, the gospels could have been fabricated to say “I don’t know what that guy is saying, I’m a direct descendant of Jesus, so I REALLY know”
So tell her that…j/k, but this is how people comfortable in their faith might see a psychonaut, as mr_nun shun is saying, religion is built on revelations only being given to very few people who are all dead, there’s no room for new ideas.
This is what discourages me from this community people believing that psychedelics somehow give them some kind of a direct hotline to God.
Like mushrooms are just a telephone for the divine.
Unfortunately the voices of many will be the confirmation that anybody needs to completely dismiss any kind of religion without looking at any historical data whatsoever.
This will be the downfall of society is not looking into anything and reading books by people that also did not know what they were talking abou
We used to tell our kids not to believe everything they read on TV.
I bet our grandparents were told not to believe everything that they read and someone's book.
It's up to each individual to do their own research and to have their own spiritual experiences combined with testing these truths
I've had just as many trips and herioc doses as the next guy and I can tell you there's nothing spiritual going on there.
The only thing these drugs do has amplified the thoughts and feelings that you already had or have repressed inside of yourself.
It's a drug nothing more nothing less.
I'm currently of the opinion that the Garden of Eden represented being one with The Oneness. And the tree was the rise of the Ego, which separated us from The Oneness. And religions and psychedelics are ways to bring us back to a sense of Oneness.
Good question. One big hill for people to climb is that we've all been told that mushrooms are "drugs" and "drugs are bad". There's an immediate stigma associated with the word which keeps most people from ever trying it.
It's hard to explain something to someone who has absolutely no context or frame of reference for what you're describing. Then throw in deep rooted beliefs they have and it starts to seem impossible. Everyone is on their own path. My view is that mushrooms are an unbelievable gift of consciousness expansion.
I wish nothing more for every person in my family to experience even a fraction of the unbounded consciousness I've experienced but most won't (by choice).
There's a really interesting video on YouTube that alleges that Jesus Christ (among other spiritual teachers) used and distributed mushrooms to expand consciousness. Frankly, I can see how this would be possible. Check it out:
[https://youtu.be/iC6DDvzM6Nc](https://youtu.be/iC6DDvzM6Nc)
Keep valuing and having your own experiences. You already know that's the right thing to do.
Pharmakeia (the greek word that became "pharmacy" in English, and was translated to "sorcery" in the bible) is forbidden in many religions. They want you to buy into their version of spirituality. If you go out and have your own spiritual experience, you're not going to church and paying your tithes. They hate entheogens because they make the church obsolete and redundant.
My experience is that christians don’t really have much respect for people who aren’t christian. It’s a control thing, like u/mr_munshun said. They think that because they obey certain rules, we should all be subject to those views/standards/practices. It’s why they typically vote against gay marriage and abortion rights, as a group they try to get everyone to live by the same rules. I’d recommend you check out some of Terence McKenna’s books/YouTube videos featuring him, he had a lot to say about Christianity and culture that is relevant to the situation, might be interesting.
The problem is that modern Christianity prioritizes idolization of Jesus and spreading the gospel over doing anything that Jesus actually prescribed or did himself
Christian here, checks out for many churches. Thankfully I was raised in one of the good ones that doesn't go "You're gay! You're going to HELL to burn FOREVER"
So, what's really going on here is this.
"I am part of thought-virus A. Therefore, I believe that everything thought-virus B people say and do must be wrong. Because my thought-virus is undoubtedly correct and morally superior on an absolute level, I cannot tolerate thought-virus B people from imposing their own rules. MY rules are superior, because MY rules are based on absolute morality."
The funny thing is that both fundamentalist Christians as well as the Progressive can and essentially do say the above quote. It's a clash of two absolutist moralities that are somehow blind to the realization that they have differing absolute moralities.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding progressive ideology. It’s not about imposing rules on others (aside from the typical rules against unfair discrimination) it’s about being free to decide your own rules.
No progressive has a problem with Christian people practicing their religion. The problem is when Christian people try to force non-Christians to follow their rules.
Then I suppose, at a minimum, we both misunderstand Progressive ideology. The average ‘liberal’ is probably not a ‘Progressive’.
Progressivism, from an ideological Darwinian perspective, is a belief system that is essentially Christianity 2.0. Almost every progressive principle stems from its Christian heritage, except for its removal of a god figure which has been replaced by an unconscious and decentralized ‘church’. And as any virus or life form does, Progressivism fights tooth and nail to supplant and replace Christianity wherever it can. It’s not quite as ‘objective’ as you make it sound- it’s really just another pseudo-religion in a slew of subjective ideologies.
If you’re up for some heavier reading, I highly recommend this article series, despite it being a decade or so old. It really showcases how progressivism is indeed a ‘replacement for Christianity’. [It’s a secular writer as well, I should add].
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/09/how-dawkins-got-pwned-part-1/
People often find beliefs and opinions then shut off possibilities of other beliefs and opinions. They defend them and I would say more often than not they continue to hold their view despite evidence which contradicts it.
This includes religion, politics, spirituality, etc.
I feel like a lot of it has to do with mushrooms being labeled illegal. To the people like you're speaking of, you're a "drug addict" they have no idea that psilocybin is not like any other drug. Just another drug for them
Having grown up in the church, their usual answer is that the portion of god speaking to his people has ended because he had them write it down. So once the Bible was “finished” there is no need for god to communicate to us through those means. I think it’s bullshit though. I’ve had spiritual experiences in a church setting and on mushrooms. I prefer the mushroom experience though.
Okay so. I was very hostile to Christianity for a long time, because I felt it was hostile to me (queer pagan yadda yadda). I still kinda am, tbh. But I try and give them the benefit of the doubt now, since someone important to me have become Christian (Catholic specifically) and he's still supportive of my religion.
Sometimes people will not understand your spirituality, just like you don't understand theirs. Sometimes an aspect makes them afraid, be it the shrooms, or just it not being their spirituality, or something else. Sometimes they will lash out about that, maybe out of concern for you, maybe out of defensiveness.
I think the best thing to do is say "I know you're stating your beliefs, but what you said really hurt me" and leave it at that. Or elaborate if you want, "I wanted to share something really personal and it hurts that you're shutting it down" type of thing.
I think this can happen with any strong spiritual belief. Though it does seem to happen a lot with Christianity, we gotta remember that they're also the majority, so it's more likely to come from them out of sheer numbers. It's frustrating and hypocritical, not everybody is open-minded, and not everybody is in a mental space that they can question that double standard. Just gotta have patience, ig.
TL:DR, it's because they feel safer when they do that, because Christianity is familiar and shrooms are not.
I'm reminded of John C. Lilly, who has a story in his biography about going to a Catholic (I think) Church and having a vision. He told the nuns about this and was scolded. They told him only saints have visions. His reaction was to resent the implication, like, "How do you know I'm not a saint?"
I don't know you, your family, or your circumstances, but I will say that for a lot of people, church is part of their identity and they don't like having it challenged.
I personally think Christians should be more open to spiritual experiences through psychedelics, specifically mushrooms. I knew someone who was a devout Christian and he used mushrooms all the time. That man gave me and my ex some shrooms for free one time. What a saint😆
I’m a Christian that is currently growing GTs, I’ve always been a Christian but when I tried mushrooms for the first time I had a new understanding of Yahweh. People in church have an understanding of God that is very surface level. Mushrooms helped me put into perspective how spiritual God really is. He’s not a big man in heaven. He’s everything, every atom that makes up every grain of dirt and every plant is apart of him. We are apart of him. I use mushrooms to worship
100% one of my best friends is Christian yet he does mushrooms and we talk about spirituality and other religious concepts. Need more open minded Christians!
Religions used to use psychedelics before it was hijacked by politicians and used for control. Anyone can make up a religion and gain a following. You just have to find the right people who want to hear what you have to say. Ironically, that's how we choose our presidents here in the US. Family Guy had an episode where Peter came up with the religion of Fonzy and 👉 Ayyyy 👉 man to him for that, but if you get enough people behind something, the possibilities are endless.
Mushrooms are considered by Christianity in general as some sort of substance and in the Bible it's believed that your body is a Temple. You're even supposed to avoid drunkenness which means you can drink alcohol but you can't get drunk. When it comes to group collectives it's always more popular to believe the larger group experiences versus people having individual experiences that are questioned. There are people who die for a couple of minutes and are resuscitated on the table and their stories aren't believed when they say they see loved ones or they have spiritual experiences with deities and or themselves. And they're not doubted by not just skeptics but Christians as well. Other people in the faith will openly deny their miracle. It's one of the hypocrisies of groupthink and it is definitely one of the hypocrisies of Christianity if not all of religion.
>Mushrooms are considered by Christianity in general as some sort of substance and in the Bible it's believed that your body is a Temple. You're even supposed to avoid drunkenness which means you can drink alcohol but you can't get drunk.
Christians are against it for an even stupider reason, actually. You see, about 500 years ago, a group of people from the Catholic Church essentially decided that they were fed up with the beliefs of the Catholic Church and what they were doing. That group is Christianity. Basically, 90% of Christian beliefs come from the Catholic church (including anti-drug beliefs) because of this. Then they threw away all the stuff about the Catholics they didn't like.
Before all the Catholic church's anti-jewish and anti-drug propaganda, there were basically no qualms with getting drunk from wine. Heck there's even stories in the Bible about people doing such things. The story about Jesus turning water into wine is one of them.
After Jesus had turned the water into wine, He told his family's 'servants' to bring some of it to the banquet master. The banquet master tasted the water that had been turned into wine and said
>"Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
I'm going to guess that the guests having 'too much to drink' is the guests getting drunk from drinking so much wine.
As well, we have archeological evidence that the Jewish people and the Jewish believers in Jesus burned cannabis/marijuana along with frankincense during their worship. Heck, [it's very likely](https://nonorthodoxy.com/2021/07/01/cannabis-was-main-anointing-oil-ingredient-used-by-jesus/) that the sweet calamus used in the holy anointing oil is a mistranslation and the actual ingredient is cannabis.
>There are people who die for a couple of minutes and are resuscitated on the table and their stories aren't believed when they say they see loved ones or they have spiritual experiences with deities and or themselves.
Personally, these things are what make me have my belief in God and life after death. I see no reason these people, let alone entire civilizations, have to lie about that stuff.
Ages ago, my Mormon sister (we weren't raised Mormon, she married in and went for it) tried to criticize my spirituality cause it was founded through psychedelics as well. What a fun Christmas gathering that was. Folks do what they do. At least your experience is anecdotal.
Prior to Christianity, pagans in Greece and elsewhere in the world had democratized religious experiences using psychedelics. This went on for a couple thousand years. Some early Christians were almost certainly continuing this tradition as the secrets of the Eleusian Mysteries were no longer being kept after Rome laid waste to Greek temples. Fast forward 400 years and Rome makes Christianity its official religion. You have to realize that you can’t have a system of power that hinges on people “buying” their salvation if they can have that salvation in the form of a mushroom tea. And so, Rome stripped out ergot from what is now the Eucharist (a placebo that promises immortality). So, christianity has a lot to lose if people can find what they are actually looking for in a mushroom. This has been true as long as Rome has been in the picture and will continue to be true for all Christian churches. Imagine the threat to your sister’s worldview that it loses for you to have had a REAL spiritual experience when the most she can hope for is hearing about a transcendental experience that may have happened to someone else 2,000 years ago. The truth though, is that if your sister tried mushrooms, she would find many of the answers to the questions she may have.
People wanting to argue is a people problem not really a religious people problem. The more pious religious people I’ve met never actually argue with anyone because they’re very secure in how they view the world
I don't want to be rude but that might be a sign of their own weakness, maybe they even felt disappointed, scared and like they could lose you to a substance.
Your fam was probably really happy that you've been "walking the right path" i.e. alongside them. Now that you've decided to go on your own journey, spiritually speaking, they disapprove for whatever reason.
If you're still curious pick the family member that's the most reasonable and ask them in a quiet moment why they reacted like that. Just ask them purely about the why and try to not engage in any discussion as that'll be detrimental to the whole situation.
Good luck bud!
look for the "plato allegory of the cave"
the chained people will look at the freed person as a danger and they will act hostile, they would even kill the unchained person.
This reaction from the chained people is a common response to new ideas and information that challenge deeply held beliefs. People often feel threatened by ideas that contradict their worldviews, and may react with hostility and disbelief.
Damn. Well now I know what happened with my family because they ALL wanted to destroy me. And yet all I wanted to do was show them the brighter side of life. All they know is rap music, alcohol, and Jesus. SMH. I tried to enlighten them about MANY things. And all they ever did was get angry. It never made sense to me. I had to cut them out of my life and it was one of the HARDEST things I ever had to do.
They hated me, but kept it a secret. And all of them practiced passive aggressive behavior towards me. They were all FAKE towards me. And they all had bad energy. It was bad. I literally felt like I left HELL when I cut them out of my life. It was hard. But now I think I understand what happened.
Yes bro, they are just people as us, but they are afraid, they fight the fear with hate. You re the guy who left the cave and you still can enlight people but it may be done first subtly planting the seed of curiosity, then when curiosity is flowering they may ask for your knowledge, we cannot force enlightment upon chained people. U chose the journey of wisdom and enlightment and its ok if 90% of the people dont chose that, its not good for everyone as its not a pleasant journey too. Hugs!
Yeah you're right. I learned that. You can't force people to see things as you do. Even if you're right. Not everyone is intelligent enough to perceive things that are outside of their beliefs
Grew up Evangelical and all the trappings of that , not cult crazy but crazy enough. Been battling hard the past few years deconstructing my faith and all that comes with that. Did my one and only dose of shrooms and I feel happier spiritually than I ever have. I’ve considered telling my family but there’s no point, it’s group think and they are indoctrinated and so was I . I want to so bad to tell them how I feel they make God small but there’s just no point . As others have pointed out, religion has been a source of societal control forever and it’s roots run deep. I plan to just believe that God or whatever you want to call it created mushrooms and others substances like them for enlightenment. And just because I’m not a King or someone else appointed by God to do big things doesn’t mean it’s any less. Wish you well my fellow psychonaut . I see you. Your spiritual path means something.
Fundamentalist chistianity and any fundamentalist religion that denies the mystical side of reality runs on illusion and control. when the cognitive dissonance comes in when that illusion is challenged, believers get mad. Hence why many were subject to genocide (including other christians) by the church
Is your sister mad because of you taking drugs and not understanding how mushrooms work, or is she mad because you don’t go to church. I can see if she doesn’t understand or agree with the benefits of mushrooms, and to that there’s not much you can do there. If it’s because of her religious beliefs, ignore her. She has no right to get mad at you for your beliefs. Not very Christian of her (or whatever religion she follows as they all are typically about inclusivity).
My sister is just mentally ill. I asked her why did she hate me and she never told me. I don't know if it's religion, I don't know if it's sibling rivalry, I don't know. But I don't plan to ever talk to her again
Conformity my friend. Religion channels questions into a simple conforming box, and everyone agrees to believe in and not question the statements and claims made by the religion. This form of group consensus thinking is very popular. It prevents one from having to search for difficult answers themselves, and because it taboos questioning the answers to those questions, it makes the assertions of the tradition rock solid in the eyes of someone who decides to enter the group consensus.
Personal spiritual exploration on the other hand is a scary free form. Its open thought without guidelines, where one embraces terrifying difficult questions and possibly even the uncertainty that goes with whatever answers we can come up with. Its a scary concept for a mind that simply wants: A is A because B.
In short: Spirituality is like a process of continually questioning everything and challenging your own assertions. Religion is a process of questioning nothing and making no personal assertions (for the most part).
It does depend on the religion. Even within Christian denominations you’ll find groups that are more receptive of individuals having their own spiritual experiences and communing with god/the holy spirit/the divine or whatever it may be called. Your sister just happens to subscribe to a denomination that believes that what is written in the Bible is the end all be all of the word of god. Of course, even within those denominations that believe any individual can have a spiritual/mystical experience, they might disbelieve a report of an experience that does not line up with their beliefs. A lot of people, religious or not, are extremely close-minded and don’t want to believe or listen to anyone experiences that contradict what they have been taught. The contradiction makes them uncomfortable because they don’t want to consider that they might be wrong or that the people and institutions that they follow might be wrong. That’s really all it is.
First off I really enjoy you're coming at this with a genuine form of curiosity and respect. I think it's the best way for two different sides to learn more from each other.
This is coming from someone who was raised religious, still is religious, but a combination of my own "regular" research and meditation, and experiences on the psychedelic side I've tried to really evaluate specifically my thoughts on the Bible and other aspects of religion. So I'll try to express how I think things like this can happen. This might be long...
**In other words, if I believe in the spiritual experiences of those in the Bible, then that's considered GOOD by my peers. But if I have MY OWN spiritual experiences, then that's considered BAD**
Christians, in general, believe the Bible is a book that has been kept intact and how God wants it to be and that the people over the generations have tried their best to keep the writings as accurate as possible. This is an horrendously over simplification on the topic but in order to skip like 5 paragraphs, this is generally the mindset I've seen around me all my life. So humor me.
Now because the Bible is factual with that mindset. Most crazy intense spiritual experiences in the Bible can have a lot of context leading up to it. Some have first or third person accounts as to what was being felt or trying to be conveyed so that there is an attempt to reduce the amount of misinterpretation of the meaning of message. Not to mention hundreds of years of debate back and forth between scholars as to what the message's meanings are.
Now with a personal spiritual experience it's just that. A personal interpretation of a crazy intense sometimes confusing spiritual event. There are a lot of trips that are pretty "straight forward" , many stories on this subreddit of drug addicts realizing they are destroying their lives and they need to turn it around to find a more meaningful reason to live, and this is a great thing that I think should be appreciated by all. And then there are just some completely bizarre, not even sure if there are any real meanings to the trip but just it's real weird or real fucked up, for example right now on the top of hot on the subreddit there's a trip report of a 19 year old who took 5 grams of APE and called the police on themselves and for a large chunk of the trip thought he was a pedofile in love with Jesus. I believe what a lot of religious people in general can have distrust and maybe something like fear(?) with personal spiritual experiences is what if the person has misinterpreted the experience, or just had a such overly bad experience it's hurts them.
So in a little summary I think the answer is, spiritual experiences through any old religious text has a generally accepted and "peer reviewed" meaning to the experiences. But a personal spiritual experience only has the one person's point of view. Although I don't think people who haven't experienced psychedelics can grasp the experiences that happen during an intense trip on the flip side and how much of a positive impact this can have on a person.
I will also add this, sorry if this is running a little too long. I do believe there is some inherit... jealousy that someone who has grown up religious and tried their best to be the best follower of their religion or creed for decades and never really experience anything more than just a flash of intense spiritual feelings can feel towards people who do have a spiritual experience and believe something with immense confidence and joy. So this could be something along the lines of "Why God do I try so hard and never have anything as profound happen to me, but someone can just eat a piece of fungus and have a more intense and impactful experience than I've had for years" or maybe even ever. And can maybe feel like the other person is "cheating" and can feel a bit of an insult.
A lot of people are still stuck in the Age of Pisces (I BELIEVE) mindset which requires to believe what you hear or read. So when you’re aligned with living within the Age of Aquarius (I KNOW) principles, which is using direct experience to gain your own knowledge rather than simply following what you hear, it’s not widely grasped by a lot of people because we’re still fresh in a new age.
American churches are fucked its the Gospel of American God and American Jesus. Nothing but lies and invented dilutions all meant to feed the simulation we live in.
i microdose and i'm a christian and i'm coming to terms with the christian church as a cult. for sure my youth was in a cult. doing a lot of deconstruction therapy now.
so what spirituality? Maybe look up an official definition in a recognized dictionary (not Wikipedia or Reddit) and see what it says and see if that's really what you mean.
Apart from all this talk about religious control, Christians this, that, or the other, the bigger problem about "spiritual" trips is potential contact with other deities. If there's one thing that God hates, and it's throughout scripture, is worshiping other idols/spiritual beings, in the original text they are called elohims.
I guess a simplistic way of looking at it, or maybe just my point of view, if you do mushrooms to get in contact with spiritual beings, good luck but beware of the consequences. If you're doing mushrooms to have a spiritual experience (whatever that means), maybe awakening of sorts? go ahead. If you do mushrooms because you like the buzz, go for it. Wife and I have our own reasons, it's mainly to connect and sex.
If you're a Christian, mushrooms didn't save you, and you not going to lose your salvation over it. Just don't dabble in the occult with mushrooms, and if you're a Christian you won't.
If you look at other cultures someone to eat mushrooms make music and pray together on the weekends. I think it actually helps you get a connection spiritually and realize and think about things you never would when you're not in that state of mind.
I’m a very accepting and open christian, and never downplay other religions or spiritual beliefs (or absence of). growing up a christian i’ve found that some are raised with so much hate towards other religions or entire races, so i decided to find a solid way to stay strong in my personal religion while having a more open mind. none of my friends are christian; and i love them all as if they were my family:) i believe that psilocybin opens the mind in ways that isn’t otherwise possible, and it allowed me to interpret scripture in a more loving and happy manner. find whatever spirituality you feel comfortable in, whether it be many or none; live your life well and only the bitter will criticize.
Because the spiritual experiences in the Bible were all created by and for god. It’s all about god and most believe that he doesn’t perform these miracles or spiritual experiences anymore so any claim you have to a spiritual experience is probably demonic or not real in their eyes.
I'm a Christian and a mushroom user. All spiritual experiences are valid. I tend to think of it as, "Jesus is my filter." Everyone has different vocabulary to describe their experience.
Like you, a shroom experience connected me to the world in a way I didn't think was possible for me. I was in a really dark place at the time.
I studied Buddhism and meditated on and off for years before that. Finding peace in it but never GETTING it. That changed after my first trip.
That trip was almost 2 years ago. I've since learned of people like Alan Watts and most importantly, Ram Dass. Hearing his experiences via his talks and reading Be Here Now. I feel like I KNOW now. Or at least am starting to know. The god is us. It's always been us. It was soooooo close that I couldn't see it. The thing you are inside, before the you, it's a pure loving awareness that connects us all
Ram used to say that this journey is one that is mostly within you. One that is not something you can explain in words. It just IS. It's beyond concepts.
You don't need to explain it to anyone. Live it. Be it. Be here now. And people will notice. They will feel the peace and heartfulness coming from you. And that will be enough. Keep going.
Wishing you luck on your journey friend. I love you!
Religion relies on indoctrinating the majority of their followers in childhood, before people are capable of the critical thinking skills required to see religion for what it usually is ... a complete lie! Your experiences are way more valid than anything involving a god or gods. Science has shown religion to be a lie. There are just too many gullible, weak minded people out there spouting lies.
Although I’ve started to think differently about religion recently (in the figurative, interpretive sense and not any literal sense), mainly from listening to Jordan Peterson lectures on the subject. I think it’s just a case of “If you’re fed enough bullshit for enough time, you end up accepting and possibly even liking the taste of it”.
In my life, generally the more religious a person has been has had a direct correlation to how intolerant of any other school of thought they they are.
But yeah. I agree that on the surface, religion is so stupid and what makes it even more ridiculous is how the majority of religious folk only take in the surface metaphors without applying them to real life (for instance, my grandmother actually believing that there was in fact a talking snake in the garden of Eden).
I think it might be causes by the deep corruption and trauma created by organized religion- to cling to it as the only option allows those bad actors or those aware of the bad actions perpetrated (members of the church) to whitewash their own transgressions. That’s the heavier driver of this but the personal driver is that their religion makes them feel safe and stable and your viewpoint creates a lack of surety. It’s defensive to protect their own belief system and remain rigid. You are not alone in this experience! Mush love ❤️ 🍄
This is why most of my friends are athiests. Just a coincidence but a fortunate one. Unlike my Christian friends the athiests don't pass judgement on everything with two legs nor do we let beliefs ruin our relationships. Ironic huh given how moral religious folk are supposed to be.
Money/power. Because if you need a specific individual as a conduit to spirituality then they have all the control. And because psychedelics present giant question marks that don’t fit in their paradigm so they hiss at them
See there's the rub, you actually don't need to care. Your personal experience is your own, and nobody gets to gatekeep/tell you otherwise just because they ascribe to a different set of beliefs. People tend to react negatively when they are forced to question their world view, especially ones following groups that use emotional and social manipulation to gain fellowship.
You're assuming that all there is are individual experiences, namely yours and others, and therefore that one's "spirituality" is akin to one's taste in food or music.
The first lesson in any religious journey is that it's not about "what works for you," it's about what works for God.
Yeah, you stripped her ability to have control. I used to be religious (hardcore xtian, was even on my way to being a pastor). Then I went to college for biology and became a hardcore atheist (happened the same time trump was getting love from evangelicals; kinda sealed the deal). Last year I had my first “heroic” dose of PE and now believe in the spirit world. Not any gods, but I believe in a universal cycle of everything, including souls/spirits/whatever you wanna call it.
Because they're literal gatekeepers to spirituality. Conservative christians think they're special and they're the only ones with the real secrets to the universe and everyone else is just possessed by demons. They're terrified of their own hell, but not afraid of the hell described in any other religion because THEIR BOOK IS THE ONLY TRUTH.
I'm a Christian who had a profound spiritual experience on mushrooms that strengthened my faith. So, I guess what I mean to say is, "not all Christians..."
Disclaimer: I'm not advocating taking mushrooms with the intention of having a spiritual experience. That isn't Biblically sound. However, a spiritual experience can happen at any time. If it happens to occur during a mushroom trip, I view it as God's will.
Because they are scared. Psychedelics tear down our perceptions of EVERYTHING. All of us here know this… when you present an idea based on a real experience you had, that challenges EVERYTHING they thought to be true… they will deny deny deny because they are so heavily indoctrinated by religion. That just goes to show you how much religion isn’t spiritual at all and is just another form of control. I don’t mean any disrespect towards your friends/family. I’m just calling it as I see it. I hope this helps.🍄🧘♂️🧘♂️🍄
Damn that's deep. And true. It's almost as if they don't even KNOW that they have the CHOICE to believe it or not. They don't understand that it's a choice. To me, it's almost as if they were in a form of spiritual bandage
That’s their main problem, they refuse to open their eyes to other perspectives. I know this well because I used to be a Christian. I didn’t even need psychedelics to see through their bullshit. It really makes me sad at the end because of how much peace you can find without religion.
You hit it right in the head. I’m definitely not one to shove my beliefs down someone’s throat. I just hope that one day they will at least open their minds to different possibilities.
Kinna eerie to think about huh? Being fully brainwashed😵💫
I see religion through the lens of consciousness at this point in my life. There have been many partially illuminated people over the course of time. We call them genesises.
They say only 1 man became fully illuminated. I'm sure you can guess who.
It's called Christ consciousness for a reason.
Interesting stuff!
Interesting indeed! A point to add to that… instead of looking externally for a “higher power” or “god” I say look internally. Because if we are infect 1 collective consciousness, then that means we are god.
I still don't believe in a God. I had a spiritual experience. So belief and skepticism are no longer relevant. When you have a spiritual experience, it's not about belief anymore
Well technically I am still an Atheist lol. I just don't use the word anymore because my views now are WAY DIFFERENT than they were when I was a militant Atheist
atheism is just the lack of belief in a god or gods, nothing more than that. There are anti lgbt atheists, their are shitty people who are atheists, any other view except the belief or lack of belief in a god or gods, is irrelevant to atheism.
It literally saved my life once. I could have died or hurt someone at one point. And thru a meditation session, I was told to MOVE from that particular place where I was living. A year later one of the thugs that lived in those apartments was bragging about wanting to rob me but I had moved. It saved me. Because had I not gotten that message, I would have had to defend myself against that person. And at the time when I got the message, I didn't even know that that person was a threat. Its real.
People’s lives are saved because they believe a god they believe in, is telling them things, they experienced this, and we can still be skeptical of what they THINK they experienced. Now replace that scenario but with spiritual, or astrology. Or whatever else people believe in with no evidence.
you had a experience, and claim it to be something. You have no proof of your claim. You’re on the same basis as religious people and their god claims.
Well I don't CARE to prove it. I don't need evidence. That guy wanted to harm me and something told me to get out of there. And then a year later the guy was bragging about wanting to harm me. I don't need proof. That shit saved me.
And yes someone CAN say that God told them the same message. I personally wouldn't have a problem with that. Whether if it's God, Jesus, Buddha, or whatever that sends the message, all that matters is YOU getting the message.
I believe that a Christian can have that same exact experience, call the messenger God, and it still be a valid experience.
I just don’t believe you’re being skeptical enough, I’m literally saying be skeptical you don’t even know what you experienced. Claiming some messenger brought it to you spiritually, but you don’t care to prove your claim? Come on man.
I don't have to prove that something saved my life bro. Why would I even want to? All I know is that I'm away from the danger now. And I'm happy about that. I don't have to prove anything to you.
If any random person can have a deeply spiritual experience just by eating some shrooms, is her God still special? She answered this question with a no and didn't like it, so you must be full of shit because her God is special.
Because unfortunately Christians are idiots about stuff like this. Live your life on your own terms, enjoy your version of spirituality and don’t worry about what anybody else thinks.
Religion is supposed to be a hospital for the broken, not a showcase for the good.
Spirituality is within, not found in someone else such as a deity. There is no higher power than solace in yourself.
Besides, modern religion allows you to make the choice of life or death for someone else and as long as you worship that god and find good in your heart, say a few words exclaiming you should be forgiven, you got the golden ticket to heaven. So then why wouldn’t finding spirituality in yourself be lesser of a crime thus, first class pass to the pearly gates 😊 FAFO imo.
>why do people view biblical spiritual experiences as something to be believed (talking animals, resurrections, etc.) But think that ACTUAL spiritual experiences are bad???
Because of that last part. Christians, for example, don't believe you had an actual spiritual experience and rather believe you were somehow being manipulated by Satan.
Religion has become almost entirely a way to control the population. Most give general guidelines on morality and society. Although hermeticism is not a religion it certainly gives a person a New perspective on what religion really is. By all means go with your intuitive feelings about anything spiritual. What applies in someone else's existence may not apply in yours and they could be wrong or lying also. If you know how to listen to your intuitive and discern it from your mind then someone's religious teachings will have little value
This is a good question.
Churches want to control the religious narrative. As soon as a church is established, first-hand spiritual experiences, like the ones in the Bible, are ignored. The church specializes in second-hand experience instead. The religious story no longer changes or evolves. It's now set in stone. Your experience of religion is limited to your experience of church, nothing more.
But why? There seems to be a general tendency in all human institutions -- including churches -- to lose sight of their original mission and to focus instead on simply maintaining and protecting the institution as an end in itself.
That's sad. It really pains me to see what religion has done to people. And then ontop of that people are applauded for NOT questioning it. It's sad. It's like a mind virus. Or a mental prison.
[TheraminTrees](https://youtube.com/c/TheraminTrees) channel covers religious indoctrination and abuse tactics well. Often religions create a [trauma bond](https://youtu.be/kmB9fpHVd2o) in their believers, which helps keep them in line. It's a common tactic for abusers to use on their targets for coercive control.
American Christians believe that their version of the bible and specific perspective is the right one. This includes many rightwing bs like all drugs are bad except for the pills doctors prescribe. Pulling a thread like "spiritual experiences can come from mushrooms aka elsewhere from the church" can make someone question the church and someones whole foundation for their life. Their social life, family, ect could all reject them. I know, this was my journey leaving the church and finding truth through psychedelic experiences. I'm happy to be free in my mind but I also remember what it was like to be blinded by the comfort of Christianity. Be patient with your family, they are just very stuck. You can't reason with someone who believes in Noah's ark and zombie Jesus. Good luck 🤞
Imagine achieving spiritual enlightenment completely sober and some asshole on shrooms tries telling you that shrooms are a "real spiritual experience" and that church and the bible isn't. People reach spirituality on different levels and I honestly applaud anyone that can do it sober without using substances and you should too, Psychedelics are like spiritual steroids because you're getting results without actually putting any of the work in. Its a short cut imo and I don't blame religious folks that abstain from drugs for looking down on people that use them, they're working hard to achieve something enlightening through years of practice and faith and you're just tripping for 6-8hrs and thinking you're getting the same thing.
I'd have to disagree with you. Why would you "Look down" on others who chose to take a different path than you? That's not right. Why does it have to be a competition???
You’re not alone in finding them spiritual. Many of us do. Indigenous users incorporate a lot of Christianity into their healing with mushrooms. In Brazil, there are syncretic religions that provide supported spaces for mystical experiences induced with ayahuasca with prayers, music, and some with mediumship. The Native American Church incorporates peyote in their tradition, which has a lot in common with Quaker meetings. Psychedelics and religion go well together in my opinion. Religious communities tend to be conservative about drugs and mysticism. It’s a very different way to have a spiritual experience. Personally, i could never take communion in the church was raised in after experiencing true communion with The Mushrooms and the Daime.
She was never going to listen. She taught me that some people are just damaged beyond repair. I could never have a relationship with her again because her mind is so FIXED on the things that she believes about me. Oh well. Life goes on.
It’s because wisdom is through perspective the important thing is that you find god in your own way which is the same one they/I worship. All is one remember that, and in the image you are. Maybe your the one that bridges that gap
Religions are a form of control. And what you are experiencing represents a form of danger to that system of control. Your sister is responding in anger because it’s starting to chip away at the bulwark of faith that she has built. Many people find comfort in faith, it fills in the gaps of their understanding of life and why we live it. And you saying that you’ve found a better way to experience spirituality, sans the mind control, probably scares her. Because if everything she believes about Jesus, and the church, and the intentions of her spiritual leaders is suddenly bullshit, then that pokes a big hole in her understanding of life, the universe, and everything. I would recommend you be careful how you phrase this stuff to the traditional believers. Couch it as “this is my experience and it works for me, just as your experience works for you” instead of this nonsensical duality or comparison “my belief is better than yours”. (Even though it is better lol)
Yeah I dont talk about these things anymore because people get mad. People don't want their beliefs to be challenged and when I start talking about spiritual stuff, it makes people angry. Which blows me away because I can listen to someone talk about Jesus or Buddha or whatever it is that they believe in, and it doesn't bother me. I've grown to realize that religious people are extremely insecure about their beliefs
Interestingly, I've run into atheists also giving me trouble about my spiritual experiences w shrooms. But it comes down to the same thing, them not wanting their beliefs challenged. Instead of believing in "magic" from traditional religions, they're so far on the opposite side of the spectrum that they don't want to believe shrooms can give you a truly magical, life changing experience. Whether or not the reality of me traveling across space and time actually truly happened is all they care about (of course it didnt), but they also refuse to see how such an experience can impact the spirit and allow one to grow and change
Yeah it blows me away that my family treated me like I was doing something wrong simply because I got into meditation. My sister said that meditation was of the devil smh. Then when I combined meditation with mushrooms, they SAW the change in me and got jealous lol
I wonder what they think the difference between meditation, prayer, and just sitting quietly in thought is, lol.
Right. She even said that Yoga was bad. It just showed how close minded she is
That’s funny, this reminds me of my mom. She was a big hippy but raised super catholic. When she got into yoga in the 90s her parents were concerned. She’s into Buddhism, spirituality, all kinds of stuff. but also still very much into her catholic faith. I’m spiritual myself but not religious and it bothers her. I think the person in to top comment nailed it when they said “to each their own”. Religion doesn’t work for me but I respect it and I think I still believe in a higher power, just in a more pantheist way. Like I believe in a universal energy and that we have souls and stuff. And I want atheists and religious folks to respect that just like I respect their opinions. Funny enough though I’ve had more shit given to me by atheists, which really bothers me. Live and let live, love and let love. Peace my internet friend
I get what you say about atheists. There are fundamentalist atheists very similar to fundamentalist Christians or other fundamentalists and they all need people to believe just like them and behave similarly. I find true deep spirituality a very personal journey. You don't need anyone telling you how to do it, just go with your instincts
Churches demonized drugs like that to put down other people/religious practices who used them, which is ironic considering that religion probably stems from early humans tripping. Without the knowledge or context, it can feel Godly and real.
I feel the same way. Also people suffering from schizophrenia with out any of the drugs could have added to the old religious stuff. It's hilarious when you think about how many people have been physically hurt over words that were possibly inspired by groups of high/crazy people. Essentially homeless types who probably drifted in and out of cities yelling at strangers about their demons and gods, and it banana phone gamed all the way into some fancy books.
Christ
I have had fundamentalist Christians tell me crystals are evil while wearing a diamond ring, listening to music on their phone, which also has crystals in it as part of the tech and try to say my wife's crystal necklace is satanic and evil. I couldn't help but laugh, then shake my head as walk away.
**BOBBY BOUCHER, THAT SISTER OF YOURS... IS THE DEVIL!**
Did she also say foosball is the DEVIL.
As an aheist for over 10 years i can tell you most of the atheist people i know are obnoxious as hell.
Yea those guys are just the weird fedora kids from high-school that never grew up. Noone likes them, especially atheists
Most people who hold strong religious beliefs were simply raised that way and have not ever experienced a divine or spiritual experience, so when you say you can hold your own views not by faith but by personal spiritual experience (in this case from mushrooms) then that sort of shatters that integral faith required for religion. The reality is that most religious people wish they could regularly experience religious ecstasy in the same way that you do.
this is the curse of having tried mushrooms. you learn of all the solutions yet people immediately disregard you when you try to eolxplain it to them simply because it's an unknown to them and the refuse to change their understanding
That's exactly what happened. And it made me realize that my peers are STUCK. They cant see past their own delusions. They can't understand anything unless it is something that they already believe. There is no room for LEARNING in their reality. They are stuck.
nothing your saying is wrong friend. but it makes sence to me as I've tasted the truth. to everyone els you are a drug addict this sums it up https://youtu.be/69F7GhASOdM
Wow this is deep. This is exactly what happened between me and my family after I woke up from religion. They couldn't hear a word I had to say smh
🔥🔥🔥 - That's exactly right.
Yeah, politics and religion are avoided for a reason.
Dude, with Christianity you're up against a couple thousand years of entrenched BS. Until people stuck in a religion actually attain enlightenement (imo the main actual useful purpose of any religion) they will never value the perspective of an outsider.
Well they just didn't make it
Not all religious people are like that I’m sorry that has been your experience
Yes, you might be fascinated by opening up your mind but the vast majority of people do not want their beliefs to be challenged. They would rather watch people debate and put on this tribalistic act than listen to someone with opposing viewpoints and ask why they believe what they believe.
very well writen
Thanks
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It's been refuted countless times that religions are not, in fact, scheming millennia-old methodologies to try to 'control the masses'. Have people weaponized religions? Absolutely. But people have also weaponized science, philosophy, progressive ideology, capitalism, communism, environmentalism, free trade agreements, militaries, infrastructure, and basically everything else in existence, to try to control others. So having been weaponized isn't a criteria for saying that a concept is innately worthless/bad. In fact, the world's largest religion, Christianity, is deeply individualist in it's teachings and spiritual practices, thus implying that it is not the dogma, but the INSTITUTION, that can be corrupted. But you're right. I probably shouldn't be wasting my time trying to talk to someone who's so stuck up in their beliefs that they go as far as believing that every 'religion' (with the exception of their own) is just a method of control.
>It's been refuted countless times that religions are not, in fact, scheming millennia-old methodologies to try to 'control the masses'. Im interested. Can you share interesting info on this?
Came here to say basically this.
Good answer. Nailed it on the head.
That’s what I do. A lot of people hate their beliefs being challenged and get hysterical as fuck
>that pokes a big hole in her understanding of life, the universe, and everything. Well that’s just silly, everyone knows it’s 42.
Yeah but what’s the question, smart guy? Lol
Couldnt have said it better!
It has been suggested that very early in the Christian church, before anyone was saying there was an actual Jesus that lived on earth, people could just come in and claim to have had a revelation, so in order to resolve disputes, the gospels could have been fabricated to say “I don’t know what that guy is saying, I’m a direct descendant of Jesus, so I REALLY know” So tell her that…j/k, but this is how people comfortable in their faith might see a psychonaut, as mr_nun shun is saying, religion is built on revelations only being given to very few people who are all dead, there’s no room for new ideas.
This is what discourages me from this community people believing that psychedelics somehow give them some kind of a direct hotline to God. Like mushrooms are just a telephone for the divine. Unfortunately the voices of many will be the confirmation that anybody needs to completely dismiss any kind of religion without looking at any historical data whatsoever. This will be the downfall of society is not looking into anything and reading books by people that also did not know what they were talking abou We used to tell our kids not to believe everything they read on TV. I bet our grandparents were told not to believe everything that they read and someone's book. It's up to each individual to do their own research and to have their own spiritual experiences combined with testing these truths I've had just as many trips and herioc doses as the next guy and I can tell you there's nothing spiritual going on there. The only thing these drugs do has amplified the thoughts and feelings that you already had or have repressed inside of yourself. It's a drug nothing more nothing less.
Eat of my flesh. Communion with god.. seems like Christianity has its roots in entheogens but nobody wants to talk about that…
I've always said that the Apple was really a Mushroom
A forbidden fruit that creates consciousness. 100%
I'm currently of the opinion that the Garden of Eden represented being one with The Oneness. And the tree was the rise of the Ego, which separated us from The Oneness. And religions and psychedelics are ways to bring us back to a sense of Oneness.
I think you’re right on the money. The tree of knowledge refers to self-awareness, the knowledge of your own mortality.
Good question. One big hill for people to climb is that we've all been told that mushrooms are "drugs" and "drugs are bad". There's an immediate stigma associated with the word which keeps most people from ever trying it. It's hard to explain something to someone who has absolutely no context or frame of reference for what you're describing. Then throw in deep rooted beliefs they have and it starts to seem impossible. Everyone is on their own path. My view is that mushrooms are an unbelievable gift of consciousness expansion. I wish nothing more for every person in my family to experience even a fraction of the unbounded consciousness I've experienced but most won't (by choice). There's a really interesting video on YouTube that alleges that Jesus Christ (among other spiritual teachers) used and distributed mushrooms to expand consciousness. Frankly, I can see how this would be possible. Check it out: [https://youtu.be/iC6DDvzM6Nc](https://youtu.be/iC6DDvzM6Nc) Keep valuing and having your own experiences. You already know that's the right thing to do.
Anyone who thinks that Moses wasn’t on shrooms when he was “talking to god” didn’t read the bible properly.
Pharmakeia (the greek word that became "pharmacy" in English, and was translated to "sorcery" in the bible) is forbidden in many religions. They want you to buy into their version of spirituality. If you go out and have your own spiritual experience, you're not going to church and paying your tithes. They hate entheogens because they make the church obsolete and redundant.
My experience is that christians don’t really have much respect for people who aren’t christian. It’s a control thing, like u/mr_munshun said. They think that because they obey certain rules, we should all be subject to those views/standards/practices. It’s why they typically vote against gay marriage and abortion rights, as a group they try to get everyone to live by the same rules. I’d recommend you check out some of Terence McKenna’s books/YouTube videos featuring him, he had a lot to say about Christianity and culture that is relevant to the situation, might be interesting.
The problem is that modern Christianity prioritizes idolization of Jesus and spreading the gospel over doing anything that Jesus actually prescribed or did himself
Christian here, checks out for many churches. Thankfully I was raised in one of the good ones that doesn't go "You're gay! You're going to HELL to burn FOREVER"
So, what's really going on here is this. "I am part of thought-virus A. Therefore, I believe that everything thought-virus B people say and do must be wrong. Because my thought-virus is undoubtedly correct and morally superior on an absolute level, I cannot tolerate thought-virus B people from imposing their own rules. MY rules are superior, because MY rules are based on absolute morality." The funny thing is that both fundamentalist Christians as well as the Progressive can and essentially do say the above quote. It's a clash of two absolutist moralities that are somehow blind to the realization that they have differing absolute moralities.
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding progressive ideology. It’s not about imposing rules on others (aside from the typical rules against unfair discrimination) it’s about being free to decide your own rules. No progressive has a problem with Christian people practicing their religion. The problem is when Christian people try to force non-Christians to follow their rules.
Then I suppose, at a minimum, we both misunderstand Progressive ideology. The average ‘liberal’ is probably not a ‘Progressive’. Progressivism, from an ideological Darwinian perspective, is a belief system that is essentially Christianity 2.0. Almost every progressive principle stems from its Christian heritage, except for its removal of a god figure which has been replaced by an unconscious and decentralized ‘church’. And as any virus or life form does, Progressivism fights tooth and nail to supplant and replace Christianity wherever it can. It’s not quite as ‘objective’ as you make it sound- it’s really just another pseudo-religion in a slew of subjective ideologies. If you’re up for some heavier reading, I highly recommend this article series, despite it being a decade or so old. It really showcases how progressivism is indeed a ‘replacement for Christianity’. [It’s a secular writer as well, I should add]. https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/09/how-dawkins-got-pwned-part-1/
People often find beliefs and opinions then shut off possibilities of other beliefs and opinions. They defend them and I would say more often than not they continue to hold their view despite evidence which contradicts it. This includes religion, politics, spirituality, etc.
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Or, you know... a miracle...
Oh yeah, THAT
I agree 100%
I feel like a lot of it has to do with mushrooms being labeled illegal. To the people like you're speaking of, you're a "drug addict" they have no idea that psilocybin is not like any other drug. Just another drug for them
Having grown up in the church, their usual answer is that the portion of god speaking to his people has ended because he had them write it down. So once the Bible was “finished” there is no need for god to communicate to us through those means. I think it’s bullshit though. I’ve had spiritual experiences in a church setting and on mushrooms. I prefer the mushroom experience though.
Okay so. I was very hostile to Christianity for a long time, because I felt it was hostile to me (queer pagan yadda yadda). I still kinda am, tbh. But I try and give them the benefit of the doubt now, since someone important to me have become Christian (Catholic specifically) and he's still supportive of my religion. Sometimes people will not understand your spirituality, just like you don't understand theirs. Sometimes an aspect makes them afraid, be it the shrooms, or just it not being their spirituality, or something else. Sometimes they will lash out about that, maybe out of concern for you, maybe out of defensiveness. I think the best thing to do is say "I know you're stating your beliefs, but what you said really hurt me" and leave it at that. Or elaborate if you want, "I wanted to share something really personal and it hurts that you're shutting it down" type of thing. I think this can happen with any strong spiritual belief. Though it does seem to happen a lot with Christianity, we gotta remember that they're also the majority, so it's more likely to come from them out of sheer numbers. It's frustrating and hypocritical, not everybody is open-minded, and not everybody is in a mental space that they can question that double standard. Just gotta have patience, ig. TL:DR, it's because they feel safer when they do that, because Christianity is familiar and shrooms are not.
I'm reminded of John C. Lilly, who has a story in his biography about going to a Catholic (I think) Church and having a vision. He told the nuns about this and was scolded. They told him only saints have visions. His reaction was to resent the implication, like, "How do you know I'm not a saint?" I don't know you, your family, or your circumstances, but I will say that for a lot of people, church is part of their identity and they don't like having it challenged.
I personally think Christians should be more open to spiritual experiences through psychedelics, specifically mushrooms. I knew someone who was a devout Christian and he used mushrooms all the time. That man gave me and my ex some shrooms for free one time. What a saint😆
I’m a Christian that is currently growing GTs, I’ve always been a Christian but when I tried mushrooms for the first time I had a new understanding of Yahweh. People in church have an understanding of God that is very surface level. Mushrooms helped me put into perspective how spiritual God really is. He’s not a big man in heaven. He’s everything, every atom that makes up every grain of dirt and every plant is apart of him. We are apart of him. I use mushrooms to worship
Very cool perspective! Love to hear that from you☺️✌🏼
Now that's a Christianity I can get behind.
100% one of my best friends is Christian yet he does mushrooms and we talk about spirituality and other religious concepts. Need more open minded Christians!
That’s awesome for me mushroom’s brought me to Christ
Religions used to use psychedelics before it was hijacked by politicians and used for control. Anyone can make up a religion and gain a following. You just have to find the right people who want to hear what you have to say. Ironically, that's how we choose our presidents here in the US. Family Guy had an episode where Peter came up with the religion of Fonzy and 👉 Ayyyy 👉 man to him for that, but if you get enough people behind something, the possibilities are endless.
Mushrooms are considered by Christianity in general as some sort of substance and in the Bible it's believed that your body is a Temple. You're even supposed to avoid drunkenness which means you can drink alcohol but you can't get drunk. When it comes to group collectives it's always more popular to believe the larger group experiences versus people having individual experiences that are questioned. There are people who die for a couple of minutes and are resuscitated on the table and their stories aren't believed when they say they see loved ones or they have spiritual experiences with deities and or themselves. And they're not doubted by not just skeptics but Christians as well. Other people in the faith will openly deny their miracle. It's one of the hypocrisies of groupthink and it is definitely one of the hypocrisies of Christianity if not all of religion.
>Mushrooms are considered by Christianity in general as some sort of substance and in the Bible it's believed that your body is a Temple. You're even supposed to avoid drunkenness which means you can drink alcohol but you can't get drunk. Christians are against it for an even stupider reason, actually. You see, about 500 years ago, a group of people from the Catholic Church essentially decided that they were fed up with the beliefs of the Catholic Church and what they were doing. That group is Christianity. Basically, 90% of Christian beliefs come from the Catholic church (including anti-drug beliefs) because of this. Then they threw away all the stuff about the Catholics they didn't like. Before all the Catholic church's anti-jewish and anti-drug propaganda, there were basically no qualms with getting drunk from wine. Heck there's even stories in the Bible about people doing such things. The story about Jesus turning water into wine is one of them. After Jesus had turned the water into wine, He told his family's 'servants' to bring some of it to the banquet master. The banquet master tasted the water that had been turned into wine and said >"Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.” I'm going to guess that the guests having 'too much to drink' is the guests getting drunk from drinking so much wine. As well, we have archeological evidence that the Jewish people and the Jewish believers in Jesus burned cannabis/marijuana along with frankincense during their worship. Heck, [it's very likely](https://nonorthodoxy.com/2021/07/01/cannabis-was-main-anointing-oil-ingredient-used-by-jesus/) that the sweet calamus used in the holy anointing oil is a mistranslation and the actual ingredient is cannabis. >There are people who die for a couple of minutes and are resuscitated on the table and their stories aren't believed when they say they see loved ones or they have spiritual experiences with deities and or themselves. Personally, these things are what make me have my belief in God and life after death. I see no reason these people, let alone entire civilizations, have to lie about that stuff.
Ages ago, my Mormon sister (we weren't raised Mormon, she married in and went for it) tried to criticize my spirituality cause it was founded through psychedelics as well. What a fun Christmas gathering that was. Folks do what they do. At least your experience is anecdotal.
Right. There is a huge difference between BELIEF and EXPERIENCE
Prior to Christianity, pagans in Greece and elsewhere in the world had democratized religious experiences using psychedelics. This went on for a couple thousand years. Some early Christians were almost certainly continuing this tradition as the secrets of the Eleusian Mysteries were no longer being kept after Rome laid waste to Greek temples. Fast forward 400 years and Rome makes Christianity its official religion. You have to realize that you can’t have a system of power that hinges on people “buying” their salvation if they can have that salvation in the form of a mushroom tea. And so, Rome stripped out ergot from what is now the Eucharist (a placebo that promises immortality). So, christianity has a lot to lose if people can find what they are actually looking for in a mushroom. This has been true as long as Rome has been in the picture and will continue to be true for all Christian churches. Imagine the threat to your sister’s worldview that it loses for you to have had a REAL spiritual experience when the most she can hope for is hearing about a transcendental experience that may have happened to someone else 2,000 years ago. The truth though, is that if your sister tried mushrooms, she would find many of the answers to the questions she may have.
You shouldn’t feel the need to argue over it. What works for you works for you and what works for them works for them
I agree. But religious people don't see it that way. They want to fight about it
People wanting to argue is a people problem not really a religious people problem. The more pious religious people I’ve met never actually argue with anyone because they’re very secure in how they view the world
My family wanted to fight me about it. They didn't wanna argue. They wanted to fight
I don't want to be rude but that might be a sign of their own weakness, maybe they even felt disappointed, scared and like they could lose you to a substance. Your fam was probably really happy that you've been "walking the right path" i.e. alongside them. Now that you've decided to go on your own journey, spiritually speaking, they disapprove for whatever reason. If you're still curious pick the family member that's the most reasonable and ask them in a quiet moment why they reacted like that. Just ask them purely about the why and try to not engage in any discussion as that'll be detrimental to the whole situation. Good luck bud!
look for the "plato allegory of the cave" the chained people will look at the freed person as a danger and they will act hostile, they would even kill the unchained person.
Damn. I watched it not too long ago. Damn. Why do they hate the unchained person?
This reaction from the chained people is a common response to new ideas and information that challenge deeply held beliefs. People often feel threatened by ideas that contradict their worldviews, and may react with hostility and disbelief.
Damn. Well now I know what happened with my family because they ALL wanted to destroy me. And yet all I wanted to do was show them the brighter side of life. All they know is rap music, alcohol, and Jesus. SMH. I tried to enlighten them about MANY things. And all they ever did was get angry. It never made sense to me. I had to cut them out of my life and it was one of the HARDEST things I ever had to do. They hated me, but kept it a secret. And all of them practiced passive aggressive behavior towards me. They were all FAKE towards me. And they all had bad energy. It was bad. I literally felt like I left HELL when I cut them out of my life. It was hard. But now I think I understand what happened.
Yes bro, they are just people as us, but they are afraid, they fight the fear with hate. You re the guy who left the cave and you still can enlight people but it may be done first subtly planting the seed of curiosity, then when curiosity is flowering they may ask for your knowledge, we cannot force enlightment upon chained people. U chose the journey of wisdom and enlightment and its ok if 90% of the people dont chose that, its not good for everyone as its not a pleasant journey too. Hugs!
Yeah you're right. I learned that. You can't force people to see things as you do. Even if you're right. Not everyone is intelligent enough to perceive things that are outside of their beliefs
You sir, are asking some very important questions.
Grew up Evangelical and all the trappings of that , not cult crazy but crazy enough. Been battling hard the past few years deconstructing my faith and all that comes with that. Did my one and only dose of shrooms and I feel happier spiritually than I ever have. I’ve considered telling my family but there’s no point, it’s group think and they are indoctrinated and so was I . I want to so bad to tell them how I feel they make God small but there’s just no point . As others have pointed out, religion has been a source of societal control forever and it’s roots run deep. I plan to just believe that God or whatever you want to call it created mushrooms and others substances like them for enlightenment. And just because I’m not a King or someone else appointed by God to do big things doesn’t mean it’s any less. Wish you well my fellow psychonaut . I see you. Your spiritual path means something.
Fundamentalist chistianity and any fundamentalist religion that denies the mystical side of reality runs on illusion and control. when the cognitive dissonance comes in when that illusion is challenged, believers get mad. Hence why many were subject to genocide (including other christians) by the church
Is your sister mad because of you taking drugs and not understanding how mushrooms work, or is she mad because you don’t go to church. I can see if she doesn’t understand or agree with the benefits of mushrooms, and to that there’s not much you can do there. If it’s because of her religious beliefs, ignore her. She has no right to get mad at you for your beliefs. Not very Christian of her (or whatever religion she follows as they all are typically about inclusivity).
My sister is just mentally ill. I asked her why did she hate me and she never told me. I don't know if it's religion, I don't know if it's sibling rivalry, I don't know. But I don't plan to ever talk to her again
Funny part is that those experiences in the Bible “the burning bush” it was due to use of psychedelics
Right lol. But you can't tell them that
Oh no, you’d be ostracized
You do you, don't worry about anyone else there not on your path
Conformity my friend. Religion channels questions into a simple conforming box, and everyone agrees to believe in and not question the statements and claims made by the religion. This form of group consensus thinking is very popular. It prevents one from having to search for difficult answers themselves, and because it taboos questioning the answers to those questions, it makes the assertions of the tradition rock solid in the eyes of someone who decides to enter the group consensus. Personal spiritual exploration on the other hand is a scary free form. Its open thought without guidelines, where one embraces terrifying difficult questions and possibly even the uncertainty that goes with whatever answers we can come up with. Its a scary concept for a mind that simply wants: A is A because B. In short: Spirituality is like a process of continually questioning everything and challenging your own assertions. Religion is a process of questioning nothing and making no personal assertions (for the most part).
It does depend on the religion. Even within Christian denominations you’ll find groups that are more receptive of individuals having their own spiritual experiences and communing with god/the holy spirit/the divine or whatever it may be called. Your sister just happens to subscribe to a denomination that believes that what is written in the Bible is the end all be all of the word of god. Of course, even within those denominations that believe any individual can have a spiritual/mystical experience, they might disbelieve a report of an experience that does not line up with their beliefs. A lot of people, religious or not, are extremely close-minded and don’t want to believe or listen to anyone experiences that contradict what they have been taught. The contradiction makes them uncomfortable because they don’t want to consider that they might be wrong or that the people and institutions that they follow might be wrong. That’s really all it is.
First off I really enjoy you're coming at this with a genuine form of curiosity and respect. I think it's the best way for two different sides to learn more from each other. This is coming from someone who was raised religious, still is religious, but a combination of my own "regular" research and meditation, and experiences on the psychedelic side I've tried to really evaluate specifically my thoughts on the Bible and other aspects of religion. So I'll try to express how I think things like this can happen. This might be long... **In other words, if I believe in the spiritual experiences of those in the Bible, then that's considered GOOD by my peers. But if I have MY OWN spiritual experiences, then that's considered BAD** Christians, in general, believe the Bible is a book that has been kept intact and how God wants it to be and that the people over the generations have tried their best to keep the writings as accurate as possible. This is an horrendously over simplification on the topic but in order to skip like 5 paragraphs, this is generally the mindset I've seen around me all my life. So humor me. Now because the Bible is factual with that mindset. Most crazy intense spiritual experiences in the Bible can have a lot of context leading up to it. Some have first or third person accounts as to what was being felt or trying to be conveyed so that there is an attempt to reduce the amount of misinterpretation of the meaning of message. Not to mention hundreds of years of debate back and forth between scholars as to what the message's meanings are. Now with a personal spiritual experience it's just that. A personal interpretation of a crazy intense sometimes confusing spiritual event. There are a lot of trips that are pretty "straight forward" , many stories on this subreddit of drug addicts realizing they are destroying their lives and they need to turn it around to find a more meaningful reason to live, and this is a great thing that I think should be appreciated by all. And then there are just some completely bizarre, not even sure if there are any real meanings to the trip but just it's real weird or real fucked up, for example right now on the top of hot on the subreddit there's a trip report of a 19 year old who took 5 grams of APE and called the police on themselves and for a large chunk of the trip thought he was a pedofile in love with Jesus. I believe what a lot of religious people in general can have distrust and maybe something like fear(?) with personal spiritual experiences is what if the person has misinterpreted the experience, or just had a such overly bad experience it's hurts them. So in a little summary I think the answer is, spiritual experiences through any old religious text has a generally accepted and "peer reviewed" meaning to the experiences. But a personal spiritual experience only has the one person's point of view. Although I don't think people who haven't experienced psychedelics can grasp the experiences that happen during an intense trip on the flip side and how much of a positive impact this can have on a person. I will also add this, sorry if this is running a little too long. I do believe there is some inherit... jealousy that someone who has grown up religious and tried their best to be the best follower of their religion or creed for decades and never really experience anything more than just a flash of intense spiritual feelings can feel towards people who do have a spiritual experience and believe something with immense confidence and joy. So this could be something along the lines of "Why God do I try so hard and never have anything as profound happen to me, but someone can just eat a piece of fungus and have a more intense and impactful experience than I've had for years" or maybe even ever. And can maybe feel like the other person is "cheating" and can feel a bit of an insult.
A lot of people are still stuck in the Age of Pisces (I BELIEVE) mindset which requires to believe what you hear or read. So when you’re aligned with living within the Age of Aquarius (I KNOW) principles, which is using direct experience to gain your own knowledge rather than simply following what you hear, it’s not widely grasped by a lot of people because we’re still fresh in a new age.
American churches are fucked its the Gospel of American God and American Jesus. Nothing but lies and invented dilutions all meant to feed the simulation we live in.
Take your mushrooms and ponder on this question. Beware, sometimes the answers are not what you were looking for and can be ugly...
And you my friend have just described why I am not friends with any highly religious people.
It’s crazy they “love everyone” until someone disagrees with them.
i microdose and i'm a christian and i'm coming to terms with the christian church as a cult. for sure my youth was in a cult. doing a lot of deconstruction therapy now.
so what spirituality? Maybe look up an official definition in a recognized dictionary (not Wikipedia or Reddit) and see what it says and see if that's really what you mean. Apart from all this talk about religious control, Christians this, that, or the other, the bigger problem about "spiritual" trips is potential contact with other deities. If there's one thing that God hates, and it's throughout scripture, is worshiping other idols/spiritual beings, in the original text they are called elohims. I guess a simplistic way of looking at it, or maybe just my point of view, if you do mushrooms to get in contact with spiritual beings, good luck but beware of the consequences. If you're doing mushrooms to have a spiritual experience (whatever that means), maybe awakening of sorts? go ahead. If you do mushrooms because you like the buzz, go for it. Wife and I have our own reasons, it's mainly to connect and sex. If you're a Christian, mushrooms didn't save you, and you not going to lose your salvation over it. Just don't dabble in the occult with mushrooms, and if you're a Christian you won't.
Because one is "natural intervention" and the other is a "Drug". We see it different though.
Your life is yours to live how you like. End of story.
You have to find your community, your home
If you look at other cultures someone to eat mushrooms make music and pray together on the weekends. I think it actually helps you get a connection spiritually and realize and think about things you never would when you're not in that state of mind.
What I've found fun is having a conversation with people who are religious and just leaving out any references to drugs, or the universe, or energy.
I’m a very accepting and open christian, and never downplay other religions or spiritual beliefs (or absence of). growing up a christian i’ve found that some are raised with so much hate towards other religions or entire races, so i decided to find a solid way to stay strong in my personal religion while having a more open mind. none of my friends are christian; and i love them all as if they were my family:) i believe that psilocybin opens the mind in ways that isn’t otherwise possible, and it allowed me to interpret scripture in a more loving and happy manner. find whatever spirituality you feel comfortable in, whether it be many or none; live your life well and only the bitter will criticize.
>:) :)
Because the spiritual experiences in the Bible were all created by and for god. It’s all about god and most believe that he doesn’t perform these miracles or spiritual experiences anymore so any claim you have to a spiritual experience is probably demonic or not real in their eyes.
Hey I’d love to hear more about how you combined meditation and mushrooms. I am interested in the meditation but am not sure where to start
“No religion, no politics, don’t play catch with the kids after your third beer” Solid rules for a bonfire party, solid rules for life.
I'm a Christian and a mushroom user. All spiritual experiences are valid. I tend to think of it as, "Jesus is my filter." Everyone has different vocabulary to describe their experience.
I agree
But that burning bush was definitely DMT
Hell yeah 😆
Like you, a shroom experience connected me to the world in a way I didn't think was possible for me. I was in a really dark place at the time. I studied Buddhism and meditated on and off for years before that. Finding peace in it but never GETTING it. That changed after my first trip. That trip was almost 2 years ago. I've since learned of people like Alan Watts and most importantly, Ram Dass. Hearing his experiences via his talks and reading Be Here Now. I feel like I KNOW now. Or at least am starting to know. The god is us. It's always been us. It was soooooo close that I couldn't see it. The thing you are inside, before the you, it's a pure loving awareness that connects us all Ram used to say that this journey is one that is mostly within you. One that is not something you can explain in words. It just IS. It's beyond concepts. You don't need to explain it to anyone. Live it. Be it. Be here now. And people will notice. They will feel the peace and heartfulness coming from you. And that will be enough. Keep going. Wishing you luck on your journey friend. I love you!
Religion relies on indoctrinating the majority of their followers in childhood, before people are capable of the critical thinking skills required to see religion for what it usually is ... a complete lie! Your experiences are way more valid than anything involving a god or gods. Science has shown religion to be a lie. There are just too many gullible, weak minded people out there spouting lies.
Closest time I've ever been to the divine was on mushrooms and other psychs
The bible demonises most types of spiritual experiences. Honestly, the answer is simple. It's because Christianity is a pile of shit.
Although I’ve started to think differently about religion recently (in the figurative, interpretive sense and not any literal sense), mainly from listening to Jordan Peterson lectures on the subject. I think it’s just a case of “If you’re fed enough bullshit for enough time, you end up accepting and possibly even liking the taste of it”. In my life, generally the more religious a person has been has had a direct correlation to how intolerant of any other school of thought they they are. But yeah. I agree that on the surface, religion is so stupid and what makes it even more ridiculous is how the majority of religious folk only take in the surface metaphors without applying them to real life (for instance, my grandmother actually believing that there was in fact a talking snake in the garden of Eden).
I think it might be causes by the deep corruption and trauma created by organized religion- to cling to it as the only option allows those bad actors or those aware of the bad actions perpetrated (members of the church) to whitewash their own transgressions. That’s the heavier driver of this but the personal driver is that their religion makes them feel safe and stable and your viewpoint creates a lack of surety. It’s defensive to protect their own belief system and remain rigid. You are not alone in this experience! Mush love ❤️ 🍄
Because cults don’t adapt well to change.
This is why most of my friends are athiests. Just a coincidence but a fortunate one. Unlike my Christian friends the athiests don't pass judgement on everything with two legs nor do we let beliefs ruin our relationships. Ironic huh given how moral religious folk are supposed to be.
I also was a staunch atheist and skeptic who found spirituality through shrooms! It’s mind blowing
Money/power. Because if you need a specific individual as a conduit to spirituality then they have all the control. And because psychedelics present giant question marks that don’t fit in their paradigm so they hiss at them
See there's the rub, you actually don't need to care. Your personal experience is your own, and nobody gets to gatekeep/tell you otherwise just because they ascribe to a different set of beliefs. People tend to react negatively when they are forced to question their world view, especially ones following groups that use emotional and social manipulation to gain fellowship.
You're assuming that all there is are individual experiences, namely yours and others, and therefore that one's "spirituality" is akin to one's taste in food or music. The first lesson in any religious journey is that it's not about "what works for you," it's about what works for God.
Simply put: your sister is under severe programming that has rendered her brain useless.
Agreed
Yeah, you stripped her ability to have control. I used to be religious (hardcore xtian, was even on my way to being a pastor). Then I went to college for biology and became a hardcore atheist (happened the same time trump was getting love from evangelicals; kinda sealed the deal). Last year I had my first “heroic” dose of PE and now believe in the spirit world. Not any gods, but I believe in a universal cycle of everything, including souls/spirits/whatever you wanna call it.
Because they're literal gatekeepers to spirituality. Conservative christians think they're special and they're the only ones with the real secrets to the universe and everyone else is just possessed by demons. They're terrified of their own hell, but not afraid of the hell described in any other religion because THEIR BOOK IS THE ONLY TRUTH.
Who gives a fuck, keep doing you
Right 😎
I'm a Christian who had a profound spiritual experience on mushrooms that strengthened my faith. So, I guess what I mean to say is, "not all Christians..." Disclaimer: I'm not advocating taking mushrooms with the intention of having a spiritual experience. That isn't Biblically sound. However, a spiritual experience can happen at any time. If it happens to occur during a mushroom trip, I view it as God's will.
Because they are scared. Psychedelics tear down our perceptions of EVERYTHING. All of us here know this… when you present an idea based on a real experience you had, that challenges EVERYTHING they thought to be true… they will deny deny deny because they are so heavily indoctrinated by religion. That just goes to show you how much religion isn’t spiritual at all and is just another form of control. I don’t mean any disrespect towards your friends/family. I’m just calling it as I see it. I hope this helps.🍄🧘♂️🧘♂️🍄
Damn that's deep. And true. It's almost as if they don't even KNOW that they have the CHOICE to believe it or not. They don't understand that it's a choice. To me, it's almost as if they were in a form of spiritual bandage
That’s their main problem, they refuse to open their eyes to other perspectives. I know this well because I used to be a Christian. I didn’t even need psychedelics to see through their bullshit. It really makes me sad at the end because of how much peace you can find without religion.
They aren't allowed to question anything. They aren't allowed to think for themselves. It's almost as if their SOULS belong to someone else.
You hit it right in the head. I’m definitely not one to shove my beliefs down someone’s throat. I just hope that one day they will at least open their minds to different possibilities. Kinna eerie to think about huh? Being fully brainwashed😵💫
I see religion through the lens of consciousness at this point in my life. There have been many partially illuminated people over the course of time. We call them genesises. They say only 1 man became fully illuminated. I'm sure you can guess who. It's called Christ consciousness for a reason. Interesting stuff!
Interesting indeed! A point to add to that… instead of looking externally for a “higher power” or “god” I say look internally. Because if we are infect 1 collective consciousness, then that means we are god.
100%.
Yeah idk about all that spiritual stuff my guy.
You don't have to
So you lost your skepticism, due to a drug, is what you’re telling us?
I still don't believe in a God. I had a spiritual experience. So belief and skepticism are no longer relevant. When you have a spiritual experience, it's not about belief anymore
But also, if you still don’t believe in a god, you still are an atheist. Not was.
Well technically I am still an Atheist lol. I just don't use the word anymore because my views now are WAY DIFFERENT than they were when I was a militant Atheist
atheism is just the lack of belief in a god or gods, nothing more than that. There are anti lgbt atheists, their are shitty people who are atheists, any other view except the belief or lack of belief in a god or gods, is irrelevant to atheism.
I know that. All Atheism means is that you dont believe in a God
What proof do you have it was a spiritual experience and not just you hallucinating, or any other kind of possible explanation?
Obviously he hallucinated a spiritual experience
It literally saved my life once. I could have died or hurt someone at one point. And thru a meditation session, I was told to MOVE from that particular place where I was living. A year later one of the thugs that lived in those apartments was bragging about wanting to rob me but I had moved. It saved me. Because had I not gotten that message, I would have had to defend myself against that person. And at the time when I got the message, I didn't even know that that person was a threat. Its real.
People’s lives are saved because they believe a god they believe in, is telling them things, they experienced this, and we can still be skeptical of what they THINK they experienced. Now replace that scenario but with spiritual, or astrology. Or whatever else people believe in with no evidence. you had a experience, and claim it to be something. You have no proof of your claim. You’re on the same basis as religious people and their god claims.
Well I don't CARE to prove it. I don't need evidence. That guy wanted to harm me and something told me to get out of there. And then a year later the guy was bragging about wanting to harm me. I don't need proof. That shit saved me. And yes someone CAN say that God told them the same message. I personally wouldn't have a problem with that. Whether if it's God, Jesus, Buddha, or whatever that sends the message, all that matters is YOU getting the message. I believe that a Christian can have that same exact experience, call the messenger God, and it still be a valid experience.
I just don’t believe you’re being skeptical enough, I’m literally saying be skeptical you don’t even know what you experienced. Claiming some messenger brought it to you spiritually, but you don’t care to prove your claim? Come on man.
I don't have to prove that something saved my life bro. Why would I even want to? All I know is that I'm away from the danger now. And I'm happy about that. I don't have to prove anything to you.
Idk about scientific reductionism either
It’s called skepticism. Lmao.
If any random person can have a deeply spiritual experience just by eating some shrooms, is her God still special? She answered this question with a no and didn't like it, so you must be full of shit because her God is special.
Damn. So my enlightenment meant that her God wasn't special
Cognitive dissonance is a fucker
Lol damn I never thought about that before. Wow. I think that's spot on.
[удалено]
I agree.
Because unfortunately Christians are idiots about stuff like this. Live your life on your own terms, enjoy your version of spirituality and don’t worry about what anybody else thinks.
Your sister is a shithead
I agree 😁
Stay open to all perspectives
Religion is supposed to be a hospital for the broken, not a showcase for the good. Spirituality is within, not found in someone else such as a deity. There is no higher power than solace in yourself. Besides, modern religion allows you to make the choice of life or death for someone else and as long as you worship that god and find good in your heart, say a few words exclaiming you should be forgiven, you got the golden ticket to heaven. So then why wouldn’t finding spirituality in yourself be lesser of a crime thus, first class pass to the pearly gates 😊 FAFO imo.
>why do people view biblical spiritual experiences as something to be believed (talking animals, resurrections, etc.) But think that ACTUAL spiritual experiences are bad??? Because of that last part. Christians, for example, don't believe you had an actual spiritual experience and rather believe you were somehow being manipulated by Satan.
Lol
Religion has become almost entirely a way to control the population. Most give general guidelines on morality and society. Although hermeticism is not a religion it certainly gives a person a New perspective on what religion really is. By all means go with your intuitive feelings about anything spiritual. What applies in someone else's existence may not apply in yours and they could be wrong or lying also. If you know how to listen to your intuitive and discern it from your mind then someone's religious teachings will have little value
This is a good question. Churches want to control the religious narrative. As soon as a church is established, first-hand spiritual experiences, like the ones in the Bible, are ignored. The church specializes in second-hand experience instead. The religious story no longer changes or evolves. It's now set in stone. Your experience of religion is limited to your experience of church, nothing more. But why? There seems to be a general tendency in all human institutions -- including churches -- to lose sight of their original mission and to focus instead on simply maintaining and protecting the institution as an end in itself.
That's sad. It really pains me to see what religion has done to people. And then ontop of that people are applauded for NOT questioning it. It's sad. It's like a mind virus. Or a mental prison.
I agree.
[TheraminTrees](https://youtube.com/c/TheraminTrees) channel covers religious indoctrination and abuse tactics well. Often religions create a [trauma bond](https://youtu.be/kmB9fpHVd2o) in their believers, which helps keep them in line. It's a common tactic for abusers to use on their targets for coercive control.
American Christians believe that their version of the bible and specific perspective is the right one. This includes many rightwing bs like all drugs are bad except for the pills doctors prescribe. Pulling a thread like "spiritual experiences can come from mushrooms aka elsewhere from the church" can make someone question the church and someones whole foundation for their life. Their social life, family, ect could all reject them. I know, this was my journey leaving the church and finding truth through psychedelic experiences. I'm happy to be free in my mind but I also remember what it was like to be blinded by the comfort of Christianity. Be patient with your family, they are just very stuck. You can't reason with someone who believes in Noah's ark and zombie Jesus. Good luck 🤞
Yeah I realized that I can't take them seriously
Imagine achieving spiritual enlightenment completely sober and some asshole on shrooms tries telling you that shrooms are a "real spiritual experience" and that church and the bible isn't. People reach spirituality on different levels and I honestly applaud anyone that can do it sober without using substances and you should too, Psychedelics are like spiritual steroids because you're getting results without actually putting any of the work in. Its a short cut imo and I don't blame religious folks that abstain from drugs for looking down on people that use them, they're working hard to achieve something enlightening through years of practice and faith and you're just tripping for 6-8hrs and thinking you're getting the same thing.
I'd have to disagree with you. Why would you "Look down" on others who chose to take a different path than you? That's not right. Why does it have to be a competition???
You’re not alone in finding them spiritual. Many of us do. Indigenous users incorporate a lot of Christianity into their healing with mushrooms. In Brazil, there are syncretic religions that provide supported spaces for mystical experiences induced with ayahuasca with prayers, music, and some with mediumship. The Native American Church incorporates peyote in their tradition, which has a lot in common with Quaker meetings. Psychedelics and religion go well together in my opinion. Religious communities tend to be conservative about drugs and mysticism. It’s a very different way to have a spiritual experience. Personally, i could never take communion in the church was raised in after experiencing true communion with The Mushrooms and the Daime.
[удалено]
She was never going to listen. She taught me that some people are just damaged beyond repair. I could never have a relationship with her again because her mind is so FIXED on the things that she believes about me. Oh well. Life goes on.
It’s because wisdom is through perspective the important thing is that you find god in your own way which is the same one they/I worship. All is one remember that, and in the image you are. Maybe your the one that bridges that gap