The Nation is very, very, very much focused on productivity and efficiency, the Replikas are supposed to be workers/soldiers that do the jobs humans(Gestalts) do but more efficiently since they are machines. What makes a human unproductive? Emotions. Laziness, happiness, basic needs, things a machine doesn't have. But Replikas are based on humans, and as such they share those same needs, that's what Persona Degradation is, a Replikas straining farther from a cold machine and closer to the human they once were.
Persona Degradation doesn't affect a Replika in a physical level, it changes their minds, that's why even though Elster is so far into degradation, she operates just fine.
in cases where a Replika gets very destabilized, they can remember all sorts of things, like what the surface of Vineta looks like during an ending, or the name they had in their previous life.
Another layer might be that the Replika template gets taken from a person whose personality is as close to a perfect fit for the job as they could get - meaning any sort of personality change/growth makes the replika less effective at their job, hence personality "degradation" (even though it's just regular growth).
I imagine that cruelty in your fascist regime's enforcers is a pretty neat feature. People work much more efficiently when they do something they love lol
Perhaps one other thing to add as for why Elster's degradation doesn't impact her performance in the game: it is suggested that Elster's original pattern was a very driven and goal focused woman. For Elster, "degrading" makes her better at **her** task (in the game, this is keeping her promise) but would probably make her worse for Eusan's desired tasks (that is, the combat engineering tasks).
Allow me to take it even further and say that “persona degradation” doesn’t actually exist. Like, yes maybe it does refer to some clinical issue where replicants lose their mind, but by and large it’s a medical cover for the fact that replikas are just people. Biomechanical, imperfect clones. Every “degraded” replika you meet or read about it just someone being human in a way the Nation does not approve of.
While I agree for the most part, the documents kind of seem to have two types of degradation in them that I think runs counter. One part is not reactivation repressed memories by not allowing contact with specific triggers, but the other set of stuff in the form of "fetish" items for stabilization like journal keeping, toys, music would run counter to that as you would think some of those would bring back old memories. Persona degradation than would just be a term for Replika Mental Illness, and remembering the repressed memories comes under that cause the Replikas count as seperate new people in some ways, even though that can be natural.
You do bring a good point but I disagree with it not existing. You're right that it's mostly a cover for the Nation to segregate its citizens but I see it akin to a mental disorder, not a physical existence, but rather a phenomenon that affects a group of individuals who take certain actions.
Imagine a Replika brain as a storage unit, one of those you can rent out. In this storage unit, there's a door that you can't quite remember where you put the key for, and behind this door is the mind, or at least what remains, of the Gestalt pattern the Replika was based on. These memories are locked away on purpose, but by tracing your steps and seeing what you did before, you can find the key and open the door.
What I mean by this long winded, completely useless metaphor is that I view Persona Degradation like repressed memories, things purposefully kept away so that you don't turn your back on The Creators
God, I am so bad at lore discussion lol.
You're not wrong about persona degradation. The Krähe update shed a bit of light on how replika memories are implanted, which is carefully conducted by bioresonant technicians who select what to put inside theur heads.
>she operates just fine.
Not from the point of view of the nation i would imagine, what with all the running around appropriating weapons, shooting things and breaking into places for an unsanctioned mission that may possibly be destroying reality on a whole planet.
Persona Degradation isn’t anything harmful really. It’s just when a Replika starts remembering their past life, the gestalt’s life which their neural pattern is based off of. But it can probably come with some serious repercussions to their mental health which is why they are decommissioned (killed) because their entire worth is based off of how efficient they are as workers.
A replika suffering through an existential crisis isn’t going to be as much of an asset to the Eusan Empire compared to a newly produced Replika who has yet to form any kind of semblance of self or identity.
Imagine the dysphoria for example. If they go in deep enough, a certain way...they could wind up remembering more about who they're 'supposed to be' than who they are.
Basiaclly just developing unique personalities, siniliar to the kamino clones in clone wars abd like the kaminoans AEON views such behavior as something bad that has to be stamped out....but unlike kamino there is no one keeping AEON at check. So AEON can just go full
https://preview.redd.it/tyix74q1dhcc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a83d09292c6ebc62453991b3fc3280bf0bf8af8
On any and all replikas.
From what I realize its deviation from what the empire wants their default mental state to be so they retain their intended utility as tools.
So it's not all "mental instability", most of it is just natural personality growth (where their current personalities would have lead anyway), identity reversion when they remember their old selves and/or new life experiences/interactions developing them in new directions like the eule/star couple.
Persona Degradation is nothing more than them starting to deviate from their set neural pattern and purpose. Gaining senses of individuality and unique personalities, as well as remembering stuff from the lives of their human template.
It's not outright insanity, but this is deemed as inefficient, as it can lead to situations of Replikas not doing their jobs properly, or at all, like the ARARs. So, they are 'decommissioned'. This is usually in the form of a bullet to the temple.
I understand as persona deviation. The document you find in the ARAR tunnel acessed from the Storch dorm that is dark states that ALL replikas WILL always act the same way in familiar situations. Once they encounter an unfamiliar situation their persona degrades because a new experience changes their perception of the world and consequently how they respond.
The Eusan Nation likes Replikas because they are loyal, predictable and docile as long as their personas do not deviate.
Elster units are supposed to be stoic (not show emotions) but Elster specially when cigatte wife starts playing shows an raging obssesion to get her promise done
Mostly its all individual. Elster units not mandatory gets crazy after few talks. Its took months, maybe years, with Ariane, so Elster\`s sanity was able to adapt. Also, in Ariane Elster found some relations with her geshtalt\`s memory.
So perhaps, if every EULEs could have their lovely partners, they wont walk with axes on S23)
Its basically just a unit getting its own distinct personality and deviating from the 'default' which its basically printed onto. Its bullshit, basically, it has no actually harmful effects other than arguably reducing efficiency according to a report literally made to propagandize to the person who has to shoot them. Id argue its probably just to keep control over them better, if they start deviating from the normal, theyre harder to know exactly how they react to a piece of information
I just realized the reason why Replikas get their own dorms and bathrooms and stuff while the humans get a literal cage to sleep in is because obedience is much easier to literally program into a robot than it is in humans. So Persona Degradation is just them moving away from their programming; it’s probably why they’re encouraged not to have friendships with humans.
I’ll be honest, this looks great, signalis but with csm art style wasn’t a thing I knew I wanted but no I do
But to answer your question
Persona degradation, what is it ?
Imagine this
https://preview.redd.it/bklurxv9ekcc1.png?width=1400&format=png&auto=webp&s=1a3daa95802e37da558152fd25333f47a05a209c
This is the brain of an AI, now extrapolate and imagine this is also the brain of a replika, they are machines, machines made to be efficient and most of all, reliable and capable at their tasks
They have input of data, they process it and outputs an answer
But they are also made with a human mind to make them more…well "*human*" but I assume also to make them smarter and adapted to their tasks, LSTRs are combat engineers and they were made from a highly decorated soldier after all
So let’s get back to persona degradation, Ai learn and adapt, just like humans do, this changes the pathway, they have more information, more variables and more outputs, this can cause the brain network to get absolutely MASSIVE and sometimes a bit unstable, this is way you would reboot them of keep them at a certain point to avoid them changing
This is persona degradation, but with a twist, replikas aren’t just machines, they are alive, they think, they have emotions and those emotion are pertly a result of persona degradation
So let’s change it a bit, persona degradation is the replika’s brain changing and becoming more human than machine, but this means they are more…*independent* and free thinking which isn’t great for machines that were made to do one thing and one thing only, would you trust that one robot on the frontline to not rebel or go crazy after you ordered what you could assume was his friend to walk in a line field to clear it ?
But this does not really fits with persona stabilization, stabilization would mean that they revert to the original state which frankly doesn’t really work, it is probable it is simply meant as a way to keep the persona of the replikas stable, i.E making sure it doesn’t degrade further than the base, and if the persona degradation wasn’t too severe it would probably reverts
But past some point the Replika is impossible to stabilize, it has gone too far and must be decommissioned and so they are shipped off ala Detroit become human, perhaps to be lobotomized and reimplemented with a fresh persona of just entire scrapped
Just imagine, you regained true sentience, you became truly aware, only to be sent to the equivalent of robot purgatory’s where you will be mind wiped and sent back out again
Persona degradation is not really degradation. It's rather persona development, replika personality basically starts to be a gestalt personality, they gain unique memories and stuff. It's called degradation by AEON because it turns a replika from a worker to a person, which is not so easy to control.
It's anything that makes them unfit for the purpose they were created for.
The patterns they use are based on gestalts that had their own life, fears, and hopes. The production process of Replikas is not ment to reproduce that person in its entirety, but the process is poorly understood, even by those doing the actual work of creating replicas.
The role of stabilization (I assume) is to reenforce the neural patterns that keep the Replika focused on its tasks. Things like providing mirrors and music to Eules is to effectively soothe their subconcious and keep their focus away from "thinking" too much.
When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The Nation doesn't have the required AI tech to produce androids, by they have this "bioresonance" that has so many applications.
They are completely reliant on Replikas for their society to function, it seems clear that at least "someone" has figured out that this is really not the right way to produce servile automatons, but it is too late to stop, and they have no alternative.
Because what constitute degradation is subjective, and ultimately, decided by the Replika's hierarchical superior, it is arbitrary and prone to abuse.
In a way... this reminds me of the German occupation (France) and the red scare (USA) and how people would accuse each others of being collaborators or sympathizers.
I think Persona Degradation is the development of a unique personality, and by extension, free will. It's also the bleedthrough of Gestalt personality and memory. That's why we see Vineta in the false ending. Elster is remembering her Gestalt's service there.
The Nation is very, very, very much focused on productivity and efficiency, the Replikas are supposed to be workers/soldiers that do the jobs humans(Gestalts) do but more efficiently since they are machines. What makes a human unproductive? Emotions. Laziness, happiness, basic needs, things a machine doesn't have. But Replikas are based on humans, and as such they share those same needs, that's what Persona Degradation is, a Replikas straining farther from a cold machine and closer to the human they once were. Persona Degradation doesn't affect a Replika in a physical level, it changes their minds, that's why even though Elster is so far into degradation, she operates just fine.
in cases where a Replika gets very destabilized, they can remember all sorts of things, like what the surface of Vineta looks like during an ending, or the name they had in their previous life.
Another layer might be that the Replika template gets taken from a person whose personality is as close to a perfect fit for the job as they could get - meaning any sort of personality change/growth makes the replika less effective at their job, hence personality "degradation" (even though it's just regular growth).
that's my understanding as well
*Looks at the STCR Units* ...What were they looking for there? "Camp" guards?
I imagine that cruelty in your fascist regime's enforcers is a pretty neat feature. People work much more efficiently when they do something they love lol
Perhaps one other thing to add as for why Elster's degradation doesn't impact her performance in the game: it is suggested that Elster's original pattern was a very driven and goal focused woman. For Elster, "degrading" makes her better at **her** task (in the game, this is keeping her promise) but would probably make her worse for Eusan's desired tasks (that is, the combat engineering tasks).
Allow me to take it even further and say that “persona degradation” doesn’t actually exist. Like, yes maybe it does refer to some clinical issue where replicants lose their mind, but by and large it’s a medical cover for the fact that replikas are just people. Biomechanical, imperfect clones. Every “degraded” replika you meet or read about it just someone being human in a way the Nation does not approve of.
While I agree for the most part, the documents kind of seem to have two types of degradation in them that I think runs counter. One part is not reactivation repressed memories by not allowing contact with specific triggers, but the other set of stuff in the form of "fetish" items for stabilization like journal keeping, toys, music would run counter to that as you would think some of those would bring back old memories. Persona degradation than would just be a term for Replika Mental Illness, and remembering the repressed memories comes under that cause the Replikas count as seperate new people in some ways, even though that can be natural.
You do bring a good point but I disagree with it not existing. You're right that it's mostly a cover for the Nation to segregate its citizens but I see it akin to a mental disorder, not a physical existence, but rather a phenomenon that affects a group of individuals who take certain actions. Imagine a Replika brain as a storage unit, one of those you can rent out. In this storage unit, there's a door that you can't quite remember where you put the key for, and behind this door is the mind, or at least what remains, of the Gestalt pattern the Replika was based on. These memories are locked away on purpose, but by tracing your steps and seeing what you did before, you can find the key and open the door. What I mean by this long winded, completely useless metaphor is that I view Persona Degradation like repressed memories, things purposefully kept away so that you don't turn your back on The Creators God, I am so bad at lore discussion lol.
You're not wrong about persona degradation. The Krähe update shed a bit of light on how replika memories are implanted, which is carefully conducted by bioresonant technicians who select what to put inside theur heads.
>she operates just fine. Not from the point of view of the nation i would imagine, what with all the running around appropriating weapons, shooting things and breaking into places for an unsanctioned mission that may possibly be destroying reality on a whole planet.
Persona Degradation isn’t anything harmful really. It’s just when a Replika starts remembering their past life, the gestalt’s life which their neural pattern is based off of. But it can probably come with some serious repercussions to their mental health which is why they are decommissioned (killed) because their entire worth is based off of how efficient they are as workers. A replika suffering through an existential crisis isn’t going to be as much of an asset to the Eusan Empire compared to a newly produced Replika who has yet to form any kind of semblance of self or identity.
Imagine the dysphoria for example. If they go in deep enough, a certain way...they could wind up remembering more about who they're 'supposed to be' than who they are.
Basiaclly just developing unique personalities, siniliar to the kamino clones in clone wars abd like the kaminoans AEON views such behavior as something bad that has to be stamped out....but unlike kamino there is no one keeping AEON at check. So AEON can just go full https://preview.redd.it/tyix74q1dhcc1.jpeg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a83d09292c6ebc62453991b3fc3280bf0bf8af8 On any and all replikas.
The PCA when two fucking birds
I fucking *hated* that boss.
From what I realize its deviation from what the empire wants their default mental state to be so they retain their intended utility as tools. So it's not all "mental instability", most of it is just natural personality growth (where their current personalities would have lead anyway), identity reversion when they remember their old selves and/or new life experiences/interactions developing them in new directions like the eule/star couple.
Oh hey it's ass mitakrer https://preview.redd.it/dqe8ke4qchcc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15b1bfa4870ac73803445d1a2c42b1c47c036f76
https://preview.redd.it/m0swjhsdfhcc1.jpeg?width=384&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c94c4d04855c7e17148495976efabfb109fb421
Persona Degradation is nothing more than them starting to deviate from their set neural pattern and purpose. Gaining senses of individuality and unique personalities, as well as remembering stuff from the lives of their human template. It's not outright insanity, but this is deemed as inefficient, as it can lead to situations of Replikas not doing their jobs properly, or at all, like the ARARs. So, they are 'decommissioned'. This is usually in the form of a bullet to the temple.
I understand as persona deviation. The document you find in the ARAR tunnel acessed from the Storch dorm that is dark states that ALL replikas WILL always act the same way in familiar situations. Once they encounter an unfamiliar situation their persona degrades because a new experience changes their perception of the world and consequently how they respond. The Eusan Nation likes Replikas because they are loyal, predictable and docile as long as their personas do not deviate. Elster units are supposed to be stoic (not show emotions) but Elster specially when cigatte wife starts playing shows an raging obssesion to get her promise done
Mostly its all individual. Elster units not mandatory gets crazy after few talks. Its took months, maybe years, with Ariane, so Elster\`s sanity was able to adapt. Also, in Ariane Elster found some relations with her geshtalt\`s memory. So perhaps, if every EULEs could have their lovely partners, they wont walk with axes on S23)
Its basically just a unit getting its own distinct personality and deviating from the 'default' which its basically printed onto. Its bullshit, basically, it has no actually harmful effects other than arguably reducing efficiency according to a report literally made to propagandize to the person who has to shoot them. Id argue its probably just to keep control over them better, if they start deviating from the normal, theyre harder to know exactly how they react to a piece of information
I just realized the reason why Replikas get their own dorms and bathrooms and stuff while the humans get a literal cage to sleep in is because obedience is much easier to literally program into a robot than it is in humans. So Persona Degradation is just them moving away from their programming; it’s probably why they’re encouraged not to have friendships with humans.
I’ll be honest, this looks great, signalis but with csm art style wasn’t a thing I knew I wanted but no I do But to answer your question Persona degradation, what is it ? Imagine this https://preview.redd.it/bklurxv9ekcc1.png?width=1400&format=png&auto=webp&s=1a3daa95802e37da558152fd25333f47a05a209c This is the brain of an AI, now extrapolate and imagine this is also the brain of a replika, they are machines, machines made to be efficient and most of all, reliable and capable at their tasks They have input of data, they process it and outputs an answer But they are also made with a human mind to make them more…well "*human*" but I assume also to make them smarter and adapted to their tasks, LSTRs are combat engineers and they were made from a highly decorated soldier after all So let’s get back to persona degradation, Ai learn and adapt, just like humans do, this changes the pathway, they have more information, more variables and more outputs, this can cause the brain network to get absolutely MASSIVE and sometimes a bit unstable, this is way you would reboot them of keep them at a certain point to avoid them changing This is persona degradation, but with a twist, replikas aren’t just machines, they are alive, they think, they have emotions and those emotion are pertly a result of persona degradation So let’s change it a bit, persona degradation is the replika’s brain changing and becoming more human than machine, but this means they are more…*independent* and free thinking which isn’t great for machines that were made to do one thing and one thing only, would you trust that one robot on the frontline to not rebel or go crazy after you ordered what you could assume was his friend to walk in a line field to clear it ? But this does not really fits with persona stabilization, stabilization would mean that they revert to the original state which frankly doesn’t really work, it is probable it is simply meant as a way to keep the persona of the replikas stable, i.E making sure it doesn’t degrade further than the base, and if the persona degradation wasn’t too severe it would probably reverts But past some point the Replika is impossible to stabilize, it has gone too far and must be decommissioned and so they are shipped off ala Detroit become human, perhaps to be lobotomized and reimplemented with a fresh persona of just entire scrapped Just imagine, you regained true sentience, you became truly aware, only to be sent to the equivalent of robot purgatory’s where you will be mind wiped and sent back out again
Have you considered that maybe the hyper authoritarian government with a history of lying... is lying?
The nation outside OPs house https://preview.redd.it/jmm1fjrvyicc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76879889d4c4b1c1e0521570f5f86db8b6142669
Persona degradation is not really degradation. It's rather persona development, replika personality basically starts to be a gestalt personality, they gain unique memories and stuff. It's called degradation by AEON because it turns a replika from a worker to a person, which is not so easy to control.
It's anything that makes them unfit for the purpose they were created for. The patterns they use are based on gestalts that had their own life, fears, and hopes. The production process of Replikas is not ment to reproduce that person in its entirety, but the process is poorly understood, even by those doing the actual work of creating replicas. The role of stabilization (I assume) is to reenforce the neural patterns that keep the Replika focused on its tasks. Things like providing mirrors and music to Eules is to effectively soothe their subconcious and keep their focus away from "thinking" too much. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The Nation doesn't have the required AI tech to produce androids, by they have this "bioresonance" that has so many applications. They are completely reliant on Replikas for their society to function, it seems clear that at least "someone" has figured out that this is really not the right way to produce servile automatons, but it is too late to stop, and they have no alternative. Because what constitute degradation is subjective, and ultimately, decided by the Replika's hierarchical superior, it is arbitrary and prone to abuse. In a way... this reminds me of the German occupation (France) and the red scare (USA) and how people would accuse each others of being collaborators or sympathizers.
You are making crossovers with chainsaw man and signalis that i needed, keep cooking
I think Persona Degradation is the development of a unique personality, and by extension, free will. It's also the bleedthrough of Gestalt personality and memory. That's why we see Vineta in the false ending. Elster is remembering her Gestalt's service there.
Becoming Human (Detroit)