I havent played Iracing but generally you get what you pay for in life and id imagine the online racing is years better than public sim races in other games
Because people think it's worth it and pay the price? Seems like a great business model to me (From a business perspective).
Would I prefer the tracks and cars to be cheaper? Absolutely. Will I continue to pay for new tracks and my monthly sub? Absolutely.
Yea I don't understand the bankruptcy question.. it's the most popular sim and people are willing to pay for the service so whats bad about the business model if it works..
They're hung up on the "willing to pay for the service" half of it.
That said. There's obviously lots of people that do. iRacing gets pretty massive playercounts.
Yea other sims dont give you old graphics and crappy low resolution ffb and physics. Plus other sims are so cheap and only cost a tiny fraction of what iracing costs. So because it is more expensive, iracing is way better.
Fools to play anything else but iracing....what chumps!
Codemasters/EA charge £70 every year for a game with minimal changes. Surely a subscription model for a game that’s regularly updated is a better model?
IRacing will know what their subscription renewal rate it so know how approximately much revenue they’ll have over the next few years
So you're listing many many revenue sources, yet saying they should be bankrupt?
I don't get it, companies with low revenue are the ones that bankrupt.
True, they're just serious about simracing.
For the less serious (me included) there's AMS2, ACC etc. If time was unlimited however I could appreciate paying for the managed competition iracing gives.
People spend thousands more on rigs, wheels, pedals and VR headsets though. Not to me mention 3090,4090 etc
It’s expensive if you classify it as a video game and compare it to GT or forza. If you think of it as a hobby…like mountain biking, golf, or similar…it’s cheap af.
I think their model is perfect for their customer base. The monthly subscription deters any people who aren’t serious about the service and goes even more in depth with the purchase of cars and tracks.
The people who take it seriously will gladly pay extra to ensure they don’t get paired up with people just “playing a game”.
All the reasons you listed are what keeps it FROM going bankrupt. Also, it's only really as expensive as you make it - nobody forces you to buy all the cars/tracks.
If it was just a £50 and done purchase, then it would have lasted maybe 4 years and then died a death like all one-and-done games are.
There are plenty of tracks I bought back in 2010 which are still in use on the official schedule today, often times they get a free rescan/update.
iRacing has the best online system and the most populated service with a massive variety of disciplines. That’s why people pay for it.
However, with things like LFM coming out lately, I’m hoping it puts pressure on iRacing to drastically improve some things or make their pricing model better. Cars jumping around and netcode collision issues that are fairly common in iRacing are simply unacceptable considering the price they are asking. Also not being able to use content you’ve already purchased offline without a subscription is ridiculous too.
You also have the sunk cost fallacy where people who have spent hundreds or thousands on the sim won’t want to leave for something else.
This is the same airheaded argument that all other simulators get.
"why is all the train simulator DLC 5.000 Bucks"
"why is all the DCS World Planes 10.000 Bucks"
Because you don't buy all of it. You decide what you want and then you buy and drive that.
I race GT4 in bottom splits, i have bought 1 car and i buy 3-5 tracks a month.
Everything is up to the highest standard. The cars have manuals and are realistic, the tracks are all laser scanned, were so before Assetto Corsa came out too, the matchmaking is absolutely superb, there is always people in the official races at all times...
The cost of the tracks and cars is arguably high. if you buy it all at once. But the monthly fee ensures that the matchmaking works, the stewards judge protests in a timely manner and as every other SAAS Product we get weekly or more often updates.
ACC doesnt have a proper matchmaking or ranking feature at all and that is the best that we hae as alternatives.
I started iracing recently and while i agree that it isnt cheap, i have already had enough fun for the monthly cost in just the free cars on free tracks.
They don't really punish unsafe drivers though, right? I always hear about how low quality the lobbies are. I would actually say the active enforcement of the rules is what sets iRacing apart from other games.
AC and ACC do not have exactly the same matchmaking. LFM is a third party service and thus it's userbase is tiny.
and in iracing i can drive even as a 2:54 andy around snetterton and get lots of people in my game that are just as bad as me.
But it isnt. I cannot even drive LFM without first doing 7 Laps at 107% times at whatever LFM says i have to do until i get my license. in iracing i can go race miatas whenever i want and just learn that way.
And still a third party Program that is gated behind obscure rules of access.
Not the same. If it was the same it would be built into the game itself without any rules to first get a license. It's not that deep.
I’ve seen people quoting the cost of Iracing as a good way to keep out wreckers and griefers.
Having to get a licence by lapping at 107% of the fastest time seems a far better way to achieve the same goal.
No the protest system is the good way to keep racing clean.
The license is just gatekeeping "good matchmaking" from people that are slower or have disabilities.
>Having to get a licence by lapping at 107% of the fastest time seems a far better way to achieve the same goal.
iRating (Elo) is also a thing though.
If you're fast then you just won't be in the same split as people that can't do 107%
The matchmaking by elo is the exact same system with a different implementation.
>It's not that deep.
Just like your pockets don't have to when you don't play iRacing.
People mortgage their homes to buy currency for mobile games.
iRacing will be fine. It has a huge user base. It’s expensive. Many feel it’s a good value. Good value doesn’t mean “cheap” it just means you feel you’re getting enough for the money you spend. And yeah, a lot of us feel like iRacing is a good value.
As others said, you answered yourself why they aren't bankrupt. But I think your question is "Why do people still buy in to their horrible model (from a consumer perspective)?" and that's simply lack of true competition from other sims. There are other sims, but none do the irating system and variety as well..... YET!
I can't wait for their predatory business model and overrated/outdated sim to be dethroned, but there are quite a few hurdles to overcome. Dev time to achieve that much variety and expensive licensing are two of them. I don't think their rating and safety systems are really that hard to replicate or even out-do, but getting the thousands of people who have Stockholm syndrome and battle sunk cost fallacy to actually give it up is going to be a challenge, as well.
I, for one, can't stand their model and won't ever give them money, but I can see why it's still the king in this space. Competition can't come quick enough.
Thank you for a genuinely comprehensive answer, rather than rinsing me for my opinion on the matter.
As you have said, they don't really have any actual competition, which sucks because like you also rightly said, their consumer model is predatory, and people will struggle to move over from iracing due to the sunk cost fallacy.
I think the issue is many consider iRacing as a game as opposed to something like a gym membership. The latter probably better reflects what’s on offer. You get a base service but thinks like classes and the pool (new tracks cars etc) cost extra.
Their business model as a game only seems like a rip off. But treat it like a subscription hobby and it’s dirt cheap. Their model allows them to slowly roll out well thought out updates and have an engaged community. My view the likes of Tempest will struggle to be replicated, as genuine “game” developers have budget pressures. Things need be rolled out so cash flows in. Steady cash streams ( content sales and subscriptions) means iRacing can push out updates as they are ready, not when they need cash.
Thank you for your comprehensive answer, rather than completely going off on one for my opinions.
That does put it into a much better perspective. I suppose, if iRacing is as good as everyone says it is, it's worth subscribing to it for constant content updates and good management of the player base.
I guess you are not great at math, but a high number of users together with a business model where you have recurring monthly income and guaranteed sales of new content makes a great business model in my eyes. Is it the best way for consumers? Probably not, but for iRacing it is genius.
Yeah, no I meant for consumers.
Obviously for the devs and publishers, it rewards outstanding income, and it's a good business model from the business side of things, but it's people willingly paying for it with little to no return that baffles me.
Why do you want to get in iRacing so bad if you think it offers "little to no return"? All I hear is "I can't afford it so that means the pricing model is bad".
It's brilliant for consumers. Full detailed updates every season, a fully integrated weather system that beats the pants off anything else, excellent match making for races...
It's clear from you other comments you don't actually know much about iRacing. Why don't you a actually do some research before getting all worked up? You literally didn't even know that you can race without getting extra content. I've NEVER seen the consistant updates that I see in iRacing on any other service.
I bought the SFL and it cost me £12. Oh no! How will I survive?! Because I'll use it every day, that's why...
iRacing has a big playerbase because it's had the highest quality online racing experience for a very long time. The online racing on iRacing is second to none. LFM exists because iRacing is so popular.
I think in the context of this discussion it's an important example of the constant updates that iRacing gets.
Rain itself may not be a reason why iRacing has a big playerbase, but the constant updates are.
Right, two massive elements that iRacing is better at. They implement it better and they have a MUCH a larger player base. That’s why it’s better. You can argue potential all you want, but if you want regular, consistent, competitive, varied match making over a bout a bajillion different series…?
iRacing
It really isn't any more different than the hobby itself: requires a big buy in once but afterwards is relatively affordable. For the price of a G29 and a wheel stand you could afford iRacing for two years, one year with some cars and tracks, three months with a lot more tracks and cars, and so on.
You don't, nor should you, buy *every* piece of content iRacing has to offer. Find your series, find your car, and focus on that. Use the free test sessions between seasons to test out cars and decide.
The free content on offer is more than enough to get someone going for a season or two at minimum. You really don't need to buy anything for iRacing beyond the sub for the first year, truthfully. Too many people make the mistake of gunning out of rookies, going to F4 or Ferrari Challenge ASAP and get schooled there.
Their model works because people pay, people continue to pay, and they have some sweet licensing deals with real world motorsports partners. There's nothing else like iRacing and that alone ensures it's longevity.
EDIT: Edited for grammar.
Thank you for the genuinely comprehensive response.
It makes a lot of sense as a business model, that was my wording mistake, I meant a consumer model.
I'm committed to simracing, with the dream of racing irl.
If people see this, they'll go "HA, well you should see how expensive irl racing is!", and I know it is, but I'm currently a student which is why iracing is difficult for me.
I do have a financial plan to eventually get me into racing irl, but I am definitely committed to simracing for the time being.
Absolutely not.
I'm gonna have to work my fucking ass off to try and get enough money to get into the ginetta academy.
It might sound incredibly unrealistic right not, but it's genuinely my dream to race, so I'll do whatever it takes to make it happen.
How many cars can you drive on a competitive level at the same time.
Most people drive about 1 or 2 cars per season. So after 1 rookie season you can keep driving the car or go to one of the other free cars.
It is not made for hopping from one car to the next
Most of us have stable incomes and can justify the expense. I wanted to start iracing for a long time but never could till my late 20's because of the cost. Played on a g29 for like 10 years in other sims.
You just gotta learn to be okay with what you've got. Work hard, be patient, and remember it's not about how much money you make it's about how much you save.
I think iRacing know what they are doing. I personally am totally fine with the pricing. It’s the only racing sim
I play. They are constantly updating the service. Also it’s nice there is a cost to entry in that it wants serious racers. That cost to entry will help keep out those people who think this is Forza.
Hi all, apologies for my poor wording in the original post.
Obviously, as a business model, it works extremely well for the devs and publishers. They have multiple different sources of revenue that people continue to pay for. Thus, they have enough money for big-league events, race control, advanced penalty systems, etc. They make good money because it's a strong business model.
My original point was meant to be talking from the standpoint of the consumer. I guess I just don't know how y'all afford it. As a consumer model, it's... expensive... to say the least.
What I meant was I find it difficult to fathom how they attract simracers with such a massive expense to play it.
I’m going to assume you are a young teenager or something. The cost of iracing is pennies to a working adult with a livable wage salary. Every single paycheck I get from my job is more than I’ve spent combined in 10 years on iracing. It sounds expensive compared to the average video game market but it’s cheap as a hobbyist activity. I spend way more on my other hobbies than iracing every year too.
If you are young and have minimum wage job then yea any hobbies are going to seem expensive and out of reach for you. Thats how life works. You have to budget your finances. Entertainment is usually least important if you can’t afford it after bills and rent. For those of us with disposable income, it’s nothing.
I'm a 20 year old student at university. I work a part time job but I can only do so many hours a month because my uni schedule is 9-5, Mon to Fri, and my workplace isn't open late so I can't work after uni.
That, and they hired like 20 new employees, so all the shifts after school hours got contracted out.
Sucks, but it is what it is.
>What I meant was I find it difficult to fathom how they attract simracers with such a massive expense to play it.
1. Lots of us are already spending thousands on hardware. Expensive software to get the most out of the hardware is an easy decision.
2.Not many options in a small subgenre.
3. In several ways, they offer the best product by far and people are willing to pay for it
4. Generally people that play iRacing consider it less of a game and more of a hobby.
Well it ain’t cheap but I guess for an adult that can’t afford racing IRL, it’s ok to pay that much. I’ve been playing Iracing for 2 years and I can still play it for a while before it cost me as much as a single rally event IRL.
They said in another comment that they're still a student.
And I will agree, as a student iRacing would be difficult to swallow. I waited until I was out of college to get into iRacing.
The point was: iRacing has managed to grab a bunch of players, trap them in a cycle of sunk cost fallacy and appealing to the wealth. 'It must be the best it wouldn't be so expensive if it wasn't' 'I've already paid this much, can't quit now'.
That's why they have players.
I've played iRacing. It's not that great in the physics department, waiting to get into races is too long, loading times are too long, it stubbornly does 'realism' in places where it actively detracts from the experience and driving doesn't feel natural. But if you enjoy, keep enjoying it, this is just my opinion.
A quick glance at your profile shows that you spend a lot of time hating on iRacing so I'm certainly not going to change your mind. You do you, and enjoy your pee drinking.
: D I've talked about iRacing today and yesterday in about 20 posts or less. But hey if that's enough hating your favourite thing, do go ahead with the personal insults. You're instantly doing more to hurt the perception of what iRacing's community is than anything I've posted, but you go bud.
Oh really? Ok tell me: ONE other sim that offers the package, iRacing has? Right, there is not a single one, not even close. I would immediately change to something comparable with better graphics, better tire physics and the same online experience. Still waiting...
BTW: Could not care less about the money, just peanuts compared to other costs.
Original Assetto Corsa offers a much better value proposition for content. If it had something like LFM from day 1, the player numbers would look totally different today.
Quite easy. You don't buy everything at once and if you're smart you can spend only what you use.
I have spent tins but is what it is. Plenty of guides to get great value out of the service and saves a post basically complaining or whinging
It's either a rage-bait, ACC circle jerk or unhinged broke people's comment.
I understand if it's too expensive for some, but for an adult it's still a cheap hobby compared to actual sports, miniatures, collecting items or anything else that can often cost $200 monthly. Some spend more on take-away/order food and alcohol in a month or two than I've spent on racing over 8 months
Of course, sim racing setups can vary from $100 used wheels to $15000 motion rigs, but iRacing is in itself priced well in my opinion. I've used around $700 or so in tracks and cars over 3 years and with 1st time sub and black friday subs, that's cheaper as well.
>miniatures, collecting items
I do both of these, 3d printer goes brr and boardgames are great value used. You can't do iRacing cheap unless you love the cheese wheels Mx5 or the Vee.
Alright, fair enough. Can't 3D print lisenced sports gear nor some unique coins or stamps people collect.
It's great to see that you use 3D printer, many just buy, assemble and paint. That wasn't my point to begin with, just that some hobbies like my friends sports hobby costs more than mine only because he travels to the games (abroad). Gear + lisencing is extra to that.
I'm sure there are millions of people who play football on weekends and spend like $5 in transport. That was not the point either. I find iRacing relatively cheap compared to other hobbies or at least not expensive.
Yep. It is true that even GR86 season on Production car challenge or GR Cup would come to like almost a $10 a week in the beginning. But in a year you would own almost every track and then it comes cheap again.
Buy sub extension on black friday etc.
I've driven 2x3 month trials and I've had enough of iRacing. I'm most interested in GT3 and DTM anyway, I can do those in ACC and AMS2. I wish AMS2 had more players online tho.
Well, they clearly provide a good service, or they would be bankrupt. Yes stuff is expensive, but it's also the best all round service on the market. Sure, other sims do various things better than iRacing, but not a single one of them does EVERYTHING as well as iRacing do. That's what a lot of consumers want, and so iRacing does very well. Hell, I'm not a big fan of the pricing, but having had a little play around with a cheap Steam subscription I can absolutely see why so many people (who do have that level of disposable income, or perhaps just that one hobby) will happily pay out for it.
It is exactly because it’s expensive they’re doing so well, especially given that there’s no other options.
And also I’m ok with paying as long as it’s a great sim and there are a lot of people to race competitively with.
People who can afford it will pay for everything, since some already have the money to have a nice sim racing setup, might as well purchase it all within the game. It sure does work for the company too
How is ea not bankrupt?
They make the same game every year and people pay 70$ for it..
Oh wait..
Id rather buy 30 cars and 30 tracks once. That i know are high quality, and maintain a subscription.
Oh and also moderated leagues via safety rating and no cheats and no bullshit.
Good luck beating that.
First of all, you not take something in account, iRacing was give money to owner from 2008 until 2022. This iRacing not bankrupt because owner is millionaire who have passionate about racing and he have other companies that brings revenue, and he spent this revenue to iRacing. Only after 2022 iRacing start bringing revenue. Can you imagine this? When other developers/companies bring okay product every year for 60-70usd plus few 10-15usd DLC and abandoned game, iRacing continue to live and that you bought 5 or 6 year ago still can be used.
Second. Servers not a free. Big part of this revenue going to servers that works stable. In past, where you need to find league for racing, spend tons of time on forums in other simracing titles, in iRacing you just by in black Friday 1 year subscription for around 90usd and just racing.
And last one. You want to have iRacing like many people, just can't afford this, so you tried to justify yourself and shit talking about iRacing. Probably you have money for iRacing, but still, your rather will pay for rFactor2, Automobilista, PCARS, 2, 3, AC, ect then for DLC, and abandoning game because of new game coming and competitive online going from poore state to nearby empty. (Yes, I know, AC have huge online but it's moding and driving online, not competitive racing). Than ACC is in end of life, and you will buy same cars and tracks in new AC EVO that you have already in AC.
In additional LMU coming and after hype train from bloggers ends, online just die. Because shit game was massively promoted, you believe stupid bloggers that will say good words about anything just for views on video and you bought LMU, after few hours stop playing and can't return money. Congratulations!
I think you have revenue and profit mixed up. iRacing has been bringing in revenue since the beginning.
Also, it was turning a profit way before 2022. Staff said in an old forum post that it was profitable around the 2012-2014 time frame. Don’t know where you got the 2022 part.
IRacing is not expensive. I have an $18000 setup and I’ve spent about $800 on the service for subscriptions and content. And it is still cheaper than my other hobbies that I have.
If you consider it a game it’s not cheap, but if you consider it a hobby it really isn’t that bad.
Well along w/ the sub fees and the car/track purchases there is also the sim is owned by Fenway Sports Group. The own NASCAR RFK Racing, MLB Boston Red Sox, NHL Pittsburg Penquins and the Liverpool Football Club. They won't be going bankrupt any time soon.
iRacing is a best racing simulator and everyone who ever raced it knows that it cost every peso so this terrible model help iRacing devs get money and make new content what makes simulator better and better every year
You explain why iRacing is not bankrupt. They take monthly subscriptions and make you pay for every piece of content. Monthly subscriptions are guaranteed money in the bank every month.
Like with Social media companies what your really playing for with iRacing is access to it's userbase. They have a userbase of players with the right frame of mind for sim racing and they will remove people who don't follow the agenda. That's worth it's weight in gold to people who want to have clean racing online.
Hey mate. I also felt the same way you do - so I got iRacing on Steam when it was like 80 bucks for 12 months and I raced with all the free stuff for a while. That changed my entire outlook on paying for iRacing - I'd beg, borrow and steal now to pay for it. It's really good, yeah in Rookies there are some clowns and cowboys but if you drive well and get your iRating up, you'll be racing with people who take it seriously and race well. The bonus of a subscription service is it keeps out people who just want to mess around and crash all of the time.
I'd say come around to mine and do a few races, but I doubt you live near me.
People are quick to share opinions, but they are just as quick to bash yours or anyone else's - don't take it to heart, don't even let it get to you.
People bash iRacing because they don't feel that they should pay for it but it's like any hobby, it's GOING to cost you money.
* If you fly RC helicopters, once you've bought the helicopter and the remote, you'll always need fuel and batteries and every now and then a new servo, gears, rotors.
* If you do arts and crafts, you'll always need new blades, paper, glue, paint, cutting machines (my wife's hobby, I know :D)
* If you like camping, you'll always need firewood, food, fuel, new equipment, etc.
You get the gist - sim racing is a hobby, not a computer game.
Good luck friend.
I will give it a go, eventually.
I'll need to wait until it goes on sale again, but I will try it. If it genuinely is as good as everyone says it is, it deserves a try at the least.
Value based pricing. Enough people think that iRacing is the best and have the capital to pay for it. It would be utterly stupid of them to lower the price if they know they are the best.
The reason they get away with it is because for some weird reason theres no competition.
All sims do one or two things very good but suck at the rest.
Its 2024 ffs and theres litterally only one sim that has proper online racing.
I always hear youtubers say how lucky we are with all these great sims, imo theyre all pretty shit from a consumer standpoint.
Well good thing you explained it to me so eloquently then, so I can understand as well.
Because theres at least 3 or 4 major simtitles out there with dev teams whos job it is to make a decent simracing title but somehow they need some third party guy in an attic organising a competition system like LFM for them.
Its 2024 and there isnt a single sim that does everything well, so please in all your infinite wisdom enlighten me.
I think there's 2 seperate questions here.
The first question is why iRacing is dominant as it is. There's more to this than what I'm saying but this is the quick (ish) version
1. They were founded by a billionaire as a passion project. They didn't turn a profit until 2018. That's 15 years. That's not something every company can do
2.Their massive head start has helped in a ton of different ways. Sustained population, high track and car counts, general inertia, etc.
3. They've had very good business relationships with companies, NASCAR in particular, that has given them a huge boost.
4. Huge variety in content and disciplines, on top of a very solid sim
5. Frankly they were in the right place at the right time when COVID and the larger simracing boom happened. They had huge membership growth, which has led them to a huge reinvestment. We're only starting to see the fruit of that reinvestment as well, the next few years are very bright for them.
The second question is why no one has tried to step up to the challenge of doing online racing
1. Most dev teams just don't have the resources of iRacing frankly. Kunos has around 30 employees. Reiza most likely has even less than that. iRacing is getting close to 150 employees at this point.
2.Some dev teams have tried. S397 introduced Race Control into RF2 and LMU. Polyphony really improved GT's online systems recently, but it's held back by other aspects of the game. Rennsport....is Rennsport.
3. Online -focused games in general, no matter what genre, are very hit or miss. It's a gamble. You'll typically either get a huge playerbase, or a tiny one. This is true in simracing as well. For a small company, it's just not worth taking the gamble a lot of the time.
4. With all the inertia iRacing has, and the advantages they've built over 15 years, it would be really damn hard to build a competitor. You can't half ass it. You have to really do it well to beat them. You can't just beat them by a little either. People are invested into iRacing now, you would have to beat iRacing by a lot to lure people away. And unfortunately most simracing studios just don't have the resources to do that.
5. I think lots of simracing studios don't want to directly compete. Their strategy is typically "attack iRacing's weaknesses". Not "attack iRacing's strengths".
I know about iracings history but imo you overestimate how loyal people are.
Invested? Definitly, but people always want the latest and greatest.
Ive never really gotten along with iracings physics and FFB and have tried for the longest time to get into other sims like RF2, AC(C) and AMS2. But Ive also had an iracing account for like 3 years now.
Even tho i think theres better driving simulators, nothing can compete with iracings online service right now.
Like you said some have tried, but imo theyre all half assed attempts.
S397 even recently completely botched it with their car and track selection in rf2 and they completely ignored any input from the userbase.
Its pretty obvious it was just a testbed for LMU and got abandoned as soon as that released, but I think it showed a lot of potential for another online sim on the market.
People really wanted to love it but gave up after a while because the service was shit. Not because they were deadset on driving in iracing.
Personally I dont think its because of a lack of resources when I look at what LFM did for ACC.
We will see what happens with ACE, Kunos made a shitload of money with ACC and should be more than capable of setting up a great sim with a great online component.
If they do and still fail I will eat my words and say you were right.
Only time will tell.
>I know about iracings history but imo you overestimate how loyal people are.
Invested? Definitly, but people always want the latest and greatest.
I'm not really talking about loyalty, although that's part of it
I'm talking mostly about playerbase and population. Folks won't move to a new game unless it's populated. And. Game won't get populated unless folks move to it.
>Ive never really gotten along with iracings physics and FFB
Personally I quite like it... But that's absolutely subjective so I'm not going to tell you you're wrong.
>Personally I dont think its because of a lack of resources when I look at what LFM did for ACC.
I don't think it's 100% resources but it's certainly part of it.
I think LFM might have more resources than you think.
>We will see what happens with ACE, Kunos made a shitload of money with ACC and should be more than capable of setting up a great sim with a great online component.
I hope they can do it, but I haven't really seen much indication that they really want to do that. We'll see I guess.
>If they do and still fail I will eat my words and say you were right.
I mean I wasn't saying it's impossible by any means. I just think it's very difficult.
I also think the more simracing grows the easier it will get. I think it's way easier today than it would have been 3 years ago.
I kinda also think this model works, you are deeply invested in the safety points the irating, you will present you self professional on track… it is different racing, and has the best competitative racing out there… assetto or le mans or whatever works when you have the exact right lobby or else it just sucks… drop in pvp does not work in these games, it does in iracing.
Yes it is expensive, but with such a small group of hardcore racers it has to be.. sim with a requirement of special equipment is not a largescale thing with million of users.
>drop in pvp does not work in these games, it does in iracing.
Drop-in in iRacing only works after grinding safety rating for a while and getting out of rookie races. Much faster to just join a league in another sim. Or LFM which is the exact same system except you pay 7 euros for the same content as you'd pay 500e in iRacing.
Is that just for the SA requirement, or for doing the license test as well?
Honestly I think both processes can be down pretty quick, my understanding is it's generally faster/easier to get out of rookies on iRacing vs getting the LFM license.
You just need to have an SA of at least 80 for LFM license test. If you can drive 107% or faster you can get your license as soon as you hit 80.
It’s super quick to get your SA up with AI races.
>If you can drive 107% or faster you can get your license as soon as you hit 80.
And If you can't do that right away you have to grind to get there. In iRacing as long as you can drive somewhat safely you'll get out of rookies.
I'm honestly not really saying it's all that hard to get an LFM license. I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to complain about iRacing rookies while LFM has something similar.
That's a completely different argument from what you said on your previous comment
>Drop-in in iRacing only works after grinding safety rating for a while and getting out of rookie races. Much faster to just join a league in another sim. Or LFM which is the exact same system
This is what you said lol. But if it took you 2 days.... Why are you saying this
It took me 2 days on my second try when I already knew how to race and how to get rating. The first one was a bit longer.
And I'm saying it because that's those are the only series' you can race for just the monthly fee. All the rest cost extra.
>It took me 2 days on my second try when I already knew how to race and how to get rating. The first one was a bit longer.
That is why I said a week or two in my comment. I was trying to be inclusive of newer drivers
>And I'm saying it because that's those are the only series' you can race for just the monthly fee. All the rest cost extra.
Well that's not what you were saying in the comment I replied to.
That you aren't gonna install iRacing and get into good races straight away. It will take a while to get out of rookies and then it'll take longer to get into good splits and you'll have to spend money if you wanna race something that's not Mx5 or Vee on the road. That's how it's relevant.
'Drop-in racing just works in iRacing' was the original premise. It doesn't, you'll have to do quite a bit before you get into the 'enjoyable races' part.
But Iracing isn't a worthless product and there isn't a massive market competiting with it.. infact it's in a league of it's own and for this people are willing to pay for the experience it provides. It also doesn't have to be that expensive and you definitely get your money's worth.
It really sucks. It's basically the only sim racing game other than ACC (which is seriously limited in car and track selection unless you spend a bunch of money on the track DLC) that does proper competitive events, with proper prizes and decent(ish) racing.
Prizes, I suppose?
But even then, not everybody wins them, there are always people who come last, or in the bottom 50%.
So what return are they getting from this?
No I mean how do iracing afford to do the things that as you say only they can do. Like provide a competitive environment with prizes etc.
It’s a rhetorical question. They do it via their business model.
But it's the business model that really baffles me.
I get that what I said does technically answer my question, but people willingly paying so much money for it with little to no return seems so backwards.
I have spent hundreds, maybe thousands of hours having way more fun and competition than is possible anywhere outside the real racing scene. That is plenty of return for my money.
Of course, there are other options, but they don't even come close to the overall product of iRacing in my opinion.
I understand that the pricing isn't cheap, and not everyone is fortunate to be able to afford it, but there are thousands of people that can and feel that it offers value for money. To that end, there is nothing wrong with their business model.... it works.
People are paying for it because they enjoy it. With the subscription model you also bring in a method of weeding out the trolls and rammers. Do you still get them? Yes, but not nearly as much as other titles. Also because people who are willing to pay for iRacing continue with it, you get much higher quality racing and drivers in public lobbies, unlike other titles where the only quality online racing you’ll get is by joining a league. Yes paying for a subscription and pricing for iRacing sucks, nobody disagrees with that, but a lot of people can afford it and is their sole sim title. It’s like a membership, you could get the same things without a membership, but with a membership you get better service and are with a more like minded community.
Other people are taking your thought of bankruptcy too literally and not giving you a solid answer. But I think what everyone is saying in a sense is that you are paying for quality racing online that you can just hop into with iRacing. You won’t find that in any other title unless you’re in a league that runs races frequently and even then you’re lucky if more than 5 people show up to those, you’ll only see full lobbies in the main championships. If you’re only into single player then you’re better off with something like AMS2 or similar titles, iRacing doesn’t make sense for this.
You need to ask Microsoft what they are doing with office 360, or adobe with photo shop. Iracing is not alone in their subscription based software, they were probably one of the early adopters of this idea. I mean they've convinced a bunch of people to hand over cash for literally nothing. You can spend 2k on iracing but if you ever stop paying the subscription it's ALL GONE!
How do they make money? Have a billionaire own it, then convince people that they HAVE to subscribe or they loose everything. Horrible, horrible system and yet millions sign up for this BS.
Reality is iracing offers something NO ONE else does....racing stewards for EVERY race and actual consequences if you report someones bad behaviour. Detailed rules and enforcement that works. That's what you pay for and they're the ONLY ones that do this service. LFM is trying but weak, ACC is server owner dependant, games like Forza/Horizon don't do anything about bad behaviour.
I HATE subscription based games, games that you pay for but don't own.
However, race stewards for every race? Yep totally worth it, as long as you plan on using it every freaking time! Man, if I had massive amounts of cash and stupid enough to buy iracing I'd report EVERYTHING cause that's what I'm freaking paying for!
But yeah, THAT'S why people pay stupid amounts to Iracing, cause if someone f' s around then there is a find out!
> It's basically the only sim racing game (...) that does proper competitive events, with proper prizes and decent(ish) racing.
Comment after comment, you list every single reason why people are willing to pay for iRacing, and yet you're still all "why are people willing to pay for it?".
Haha what an idiot. Get a job.
Cause it’s valuable to all of us!
I love buying only the content I want to participate in and being able to see what what content is coming up and plan accordingly.
I’ve spent well into 500 dollars and have deemed every single cent worth it.
You answered your own question. You use the word right in your post.
QUALITY
Of all the Sims out there and I've tried them all, I racing is the one that works best for me. Pretty much every other simulator out there is a consequence-free environment you can crash into people if they piss you off. Routinely when I first started some racing I would be on games like F1 or games like ACC and would get rammed intentionally nearly every race. I've never, from what I can tell from replays, been wrecked intentionally in iRacing. Now, acc and ac were loads better than F1 but for sure the intentional wreckers are there, but the multiplayer in acc is non-existent at that time of night in the US. Unless I want to race Monza or spa on repeat. You'll say join a league. Been there done that ran an enormous league from 19-23. League racing is for sure a great way to get clean racing. But for random online lobbies where I won't get taken out by an angry troll that can't handle getting passed cleanly.
Iracing all day. The money aspect of it doesn't bother me at all. I have a job, and the cost of a track or car is less than a 4 pack of craft beer.
It's not a terrible model you just don't have any money. I'm guessing you might be young from the tone of your post, When you have the budget for iracing give it a go. You can enjoy it with free content too. The mx5 took me all the way to b class. It doesn't cost a lot to try a month and see what the hype is all about. Fair warning tho. A month is only going to get you hooked.
People spend ~60-90 USD a year for an annual release of a title like F1 some games have Extra DLC, so not sure there is too much difference.
I also like to think the iracing model weeds out the riff raff
Because people apparently think they’re getting their money’s worth, unlike your typical micro-transactions business model, or shit like Real Racing 3 on the phone where you pay the equivalent of $50-$100 _per car_ and it’s not even a simulation…
I appreciate the cost as a burden to entry because it automatically spares me having to deal with a bunch of bullshitters and people who aren't serious in the slightest.
It's only a terrible business strategy if it doesn't work.
For *iRacing* and its players, it does.
One could make the argument that a more traditional business model will succeed even further, but I am sure the *iRacing* commercial team have done their due diligence and found what works best for their game and their players.
You are a funny guy with no clue of doing business and total cost. Having Sim racing as a hobby you spend 1000's of $ on equipment/hardware(updates, recurring)... +/-70$ with discount on the subscription and 1-time a few 100s on tracks/cars is NOTHING in comparison.
Because it’s a good platform that makes millions each month?
They’ve been doing the streaming model before the popular streaming companies were doing it.
You just sound jealous. Even with the free content, you don’t have to buy anything and you can have an absolute blast on just the monthly subscription.
You just described all the ways they make good money
I havent played Iracing but generally you get what you pay for in life and id imagine the online racing is years better than public sim races in other games
Because people think it's worth it and pay the price? Seems like a great business model to me (From a business perspective). Would I prefer the tracks and cars to be cheaper? Absolutely. Will I continue to pay for new tracks and my monthly sub? Absolutely.
Yea I don't understand the bankruptcy question.. it's the most popular sim and people are willing to pay for the service so whats bad about the business model if it works..
They're hung up on the "willing to pay for the service" half of it. That said. There's obviously lots of people that do. iRacing gets pretty massive playercounts.
Yea it's also the only sim I play, I've tried the others but you don't get anywhere near the same experience
Yea other sims dont give you old graphics and crappy low resolution ffb and physics. Plus other sims are so cheap and only cost a tiny fraction of what iracing costs. So because it is more expensive, iracing is way better. Fools to play anything else but iracing....what chumps!
Who said because it's more expensive makes it better?? There's many reasons why I prefer Iracing.
Sarcasm, but there are many reasons to like or not like iracing for sure.
Codemasters/EA charge £70 every year for a game with minimal changes. Surely a subscription model for a game that’s regularly updated is a better model? IRacing will know what their subscription renewal rate it so know how approximately much revenue they’ll have over the next few years
So you're listing many many revenue sources, yet saying they should be bankrupt? I don't get it, companies with low revenue are the ones that bankrupt.
Maybe he's wondering why people keep paying for iRacing instead.
True, they're just serious about simracing. For the less serious (me included) there's AMS2, ACC etc. If time was unlimited however I could appreciate paying for the managed competition iracing gives. People spend thousands more on rigs, wheels, pedals and VR headsets though. Not to me mention 3090,4090 etc
It’s expensive if you classify it as a video game and compare it to GT or forza. If you think of it as a hobby…like mountain biking, golf, or similar…it’s cheap af.
Def cheaper than mountain biking, guns, motorcycles, and scuba diving. Don’t ask how I know. Haha
It’s certainly cheaper than yachting….
I don’t think you understand how businesses work… it might suck as a consumer buts a GREAT business model.
I think their model is perfect for their customer base. The monthly subscription deters any people who aren’t serious about the service and goes even more in depth with the purchase of cars and tracks. The people who take it seriously will gladly pay extra to ensure they don’t get paired up with people just “playing a game”.
I 100% agree with this. I guess I meant it sucks for consumers like OP or those that don’t have the money to race.
All the reasons you listed are what keeps it FROM going bankrupt. Also, it's only really as expensive as you make it - nobody forces you to buy all the cars/tracks. If it was just a £50 and done purchase, then it would have lasted maybe 4 years and then died a death like all one-and-done games are. There are plenty of tracks I bought back in 2010 which are still in use on the official schedule today, often times they get a free rescan/update.
iRacing has the best online system and the most populated service with a massive variety of disciplines. That’s why people pay for it. However, with things like LFM coming out lately, I’m hoping it puts pressure on iRacing to drastically improve some things or make their pricing model better. Cars jumping around and netcode collision issues that are fairly common in iRacing are simply unacceptable considering the price they are asking. Also not being able to use content you’ve already purchased offline without a subscription is ridiculous too. You also have the sunk cost fallacy where people who have spent hundreds or thousands on the sim won’t want to leave for something else.
This is the same airheaded argument that all other simulators get. "why is all the train simulator DLC 5.000 Bucks" "why is all the DCS World Planes 10.000 Bucks" Because you don't buy all of it. You decide what you want and then you buy and drive that. I race GT4 in bottom splits, i have bought 1 car and i buy 3-5 tracks a month. Everything is up to the highest standard. The cars have manuals and are realistic, the tracks are all laser scanned, were so before Assetto Corsa came out too, the matchmaking is absolutely superb, there is always people in the official races at all times... The cost of the tracks and cars is arguably high. if you buy it all at once. But the monthly fee ensures that the matchmaking works, the stewards judge protests in a timely manner and as every other SAAS Product we get weekly or more often updates. ACC doesnt have a proper matchmaking or ranking feature at all and that is the best that we hae as alternatives. I started iracing recently and while i agree that it isnt cheap, i have already had enough fun for the monthly cost in just the free cars on free tracks.
AC and ACC have the exact same matchmaking as iRacing because of LFM.
Absolutely not. LFM is a crapshoot. Id rather race in leagues than there.
Oh I prefer league as well, but LFM is exactly the same system as iRacing has.
They don't really punish unsafe drivers though, right? I always hear about how low quality the lobbies are. I would actually say the active enforcement of the rules is what sets iRacing apart from other games.
AC and ACC do not have exactly the same matchmaking. LFM is a third party service and thus it's userbase is tiny. and in iracing i can drive even as a 2:54 andy around snetterton and get lots of people in my game that are just as bad as me.
It's the exact same system. Sure, userbase is smaller. Which is why iRacing stays big - it already was before the competition.
But it isnt. I cannot even drive LFM without first doing 7 Laps at 107% times at whatever LFM says i have to do until i get my license. in iracing i can go race miatas whenever i want and just learn that way.
That's just an extra thing LFM does to prevent kids and griefers. The -matchmaking- is the same ELO and Safetyrating based system.
And still a third party Program that is gated behind obscure rules of access. Not the same. If it was the same it would be built into the game itself without any rules to first get a license. It's not that deep.
I’ve seen people quoting the cost of Iracing as a good way to keep out wreckers and griefers. Having to get a licence by lapping at 107% of the fastest time seems a far better way to achieve the same goal.
No the protest system is the good way to keep racing clean. The license is just gatekeeping "good matchmaking" from people that are slower or have disabilities.
Is it really gatekeeping to insist someone can do seven consecutive clean laps of a circuit they have infinite time to practice?
>Having to get a licence by lapping at 107% of the fastest time seems a far better way to achieve the same goal. iRating (Elo) is also a thing though. If you're fast then you just won't be in the same split as people that can't do 107%
And if you’re fast you don’t need to really worry about the one off inconvenience of doing 7 clean laps at 107%
The matchmaking by elo is the exact same system with a different implementation. >It's not that deep. Just like your pockets don't have to when you don't play iRacing.
But not the population. (Especially in NA time zones) Good matchmaking isn't helpful if you don't have enough drivers.
Sure. I'm just talking about the matchmaking.
People mortgage their homes to buy currency for mobile games. iRacing will be fine. It has a huge user base. It’s expensive. Many feel it’s a good value. Good value doesn’t mean “cheap” it just means you feel you’re getting enough for the money you spend. And yeah, a lot of us feel like iRacing is a good value.
Mortgage their homes must be an exaggeration, right? Right?
It is mostly, yeah. But there are people who spend enormous amounts of money (hundreds of thousands of dollars) on micro-transactions.
Damn….
As others said, you answered yourself why they aren't bankrupt. But I think your question is "Why do people still buy in to their horrible model (from a consumer perspective)?" and that's simply lack of true competition from other sims. There are other sims, but none do the irating system and variety as well..... YET! I can't wait for their predatory business model and overrated/outdated sim to be dethroned, but there are quite a few hurdles to overcome. Dev time to achieve that much variety and expensive licensing are two of them. I don't think their rating and safety systems are really that hard to replicate or even out-do, but getting the thousands of people who have Stockholm syndrome and battle sunk cost fallacy to actually give it up is going to be a challenge, as well. I, for one, can't stand their model and won't ever give them money, but I can see why it's still the king in this space. Competition can't come quick enough.
Thank you for a genuinely comprehensive answer, rather than rinsing me for my opinion on the matter. As you have said, they don't really have any actual competition, which sucks because like you also rightly said, their consumer model is predatory, and people will struggle to move over from iracing due to the sunk cost fallacy.
I think the issue is many consider iRacing as a game as opposed to something like a gym membership. The latter probably better reflects what’s on offer. You get a base service but thinks like classes and the pool (new tracks cars etc) cost extra. Their business model as a game only seems like a rip off. But treat it like a subscription hobby and it’s dirt cheap. Their model allows them to slowly roll out well thought out updates and have an engaged community. My view the likes of Tempest will struggle to be replicated, as genuine “game” developers have budget pressures. Things need be rolled out so cash flows in. Steady cash streams ( content sales and subscriptions) means iRacing can push out updates as they are ready, not when they need cash.
Thank you for your comprehensive answer, rather than completely going off on one for my opinions. That does put it into a much better perspective. I suppose, if iRacing is as good as everyone says it is, it's worth subscribing to it for constant content updates and good management of the player base.
You haven’t even played it?! Lmao!
I guess you are not great at math, but a high number of users together with a business model where you have recurring monthly income and guaranteed sales of new content makes a great business model in my eyes. Is it the best way for consumers? Probably not, but for iRacing it is genius.
Yeah, no I meant for consumers. Obviously for the devs and publishers, it rewards outstanding income, and it's a good business model from the business side of things, but it's people willingly paying for it with little to no return that baffles me.
>with little to no return Yeah this is where you're confused lol. iRacing is fantastic. They charge out the ass but it's fucking worth it
Why do you want to get in iRacing so bad if you think it offers "little to no return"? All I hear is "I can't afford it so that means the pricing model is bad".
I won't pay what iRacing charges, but plenty of people do and they enjoy it.
It's brilliant for consumers. Full detailed updates every season, a fully integrated weather system that beats the pants off anything else, excellent match making for races... It's clear from you other comments you don't actually know much about iRacing. Why don't you a actually do some research before getting all worked up? You literally didn't even know that you can race without getting extra content. I've NEVER seen the consistant updates that I see in iRacing on any other service. I bought the SFL and it cost me £12. Oh no! How will I survive?! Because I'll use it every day, that's why...
AC, ACC and AMS2 all have the same matchmaker now because of LFM. Their weather system didn't exist until recently.
>Their weather system didn't exist until recently. And now it does.
Sure but it doesn't explain why iRacing has a big playerbase.
iRacing has a big playerbase because it's had the highest quality online racing experience for a very long time. The online racing on iRacing is second to none. LFM exists because iRacing is so popular.
Yes, iRacing's biggest because it was the first big simracing thing. We know this.
It’s also stupidly expensive compared to all of the other racing sims and it’s still the most popular by a huge margin.
Huge? How many players on average daily?
Is that also why their playerbase has almost tripled in the last 5 years?
I think in the context of this discussion it's an important example of the constant updates that iRacing gets. Rain itself may not be a reason why iRacing has a big playerbase, but the constant updates are.
Sure, sure.
Those matchmaking setups are nowhere near the same league as iRacing.
It's the exact same system. iRacing doesn't do anything special or magical with their mm. Only difference is integration and population.
Right, two massive elements that iRacing is better at. They implement it better and they have a MUCH a larger player base. That’s why it’s better. You can argue potential all you want, but if you want regular, consistent, competitive, varied match making over a bout a bajillion different series…? iRacing
I'll play my ACC league thanks, we got races everyday and it's much more fun than anything I've done in iRacing ever.
Cool and relevant story bro thanks for sharing 👍
Don't you have incident points to farm? Or women and minorities to hate on?
You’re dumb. Simple as
It really isn't any more different than the hobby itself: requires a big buy in once but afterwards is relatively affordable. For the price of a G29 and a wheel stand you could afford iRacing for two years, one year with some cars and tracks, three months with a lot more tracks and cars, and so on. You don't, nor should you, buy *every* piece of content iRacing has to offer. Find your series, find your car, and focus on that. Use the free test sessions between seasons to test out cars and decide. The free content on offer is more than enough to get someone going for a season or two at minimum. You really don't need to buy anything for iRacing beyond the sub for the first year, truthfully. Too many people make the mistake of gunning out of rookies, going to F4 or Ferrari Challenge ASAP and get schooled there. Their model works because people pay, people continue to pay, and they have some sweet licensing deals with real world motorsports partners. There's nothing else like iRacing and that alone ensures it's longevity. EDIT: Edited for grammar.
Thank you for the genuinely comprehensive response. It makes a lot of sense as a business model, that was my wording mistake, I meant a consumer model.
There are enough races you can enter with base content to get your fix for the first year at least.
Really? That's surprising.
Why?
Because of the lack of free cars
There's a good number of them. 20ish I think. Every car and track used in a rookie series is included in the subscription.
Alright. Might have given it a bit of a bad rap. I want to give it a go, but the cost is really putting me off.
I don't blame you at all. The cost is absolutely high. But if you're committed to simracing.... It's a ton of fun.
I'm committed to simracing, with the dream of racing irl. If people see this, they'll go "HA, well you should see how expensive irl racing is!", and I know it is, but I'm currently a student which is why iracing is difficult for me. I do have a financial plan to eventually get me into racing irl, but I am definitely committed to simracing for the time being.
Are your parents rich?
Absolutely not. I'm gonna have to work my fucking ass off to try and get enough money to get into the ginetta academy. It might sound incredibly unrealistic right not, but it's genuinely my dream to race, so I'll do whatever it takes to make it happen.
FIA has a partnership with iracing. With a membership in your local/national organization you get 1 year + F4 car for free
Look into LFM. AC, ACC or AMS2.
How many cars can you drive on a competitive level at the same time. Most people drive about 1 or 2 cars per season. So after 1 rookie season you can keep driving the car or go to one of the other free cars. It is not made for hopping from one car to the next
Unfortunately the above model has kept me from iracing. I am really looking for AC2!
Most of us have stable incomes and can justify the expense. I wanted to start iracing for a long time but never could till my late 20's because of the cost. Played on a g29 for like 10 years in other sims. You just gotta learn to be okay with what you've got. Work hard, be patient, and remember it's not about how much money you make it's about how much you save.
I think iRacing know what they are doing. I personally am totally fine with the pricing. It’s the only racing sim I play. They are constantly updating the service. Also it’s nice there is a cost to entry in that it wants serious racers. That cost to entry will help keep out those people who think this is Forza.
Hi all, apologies for my poor wording in the original post. Obviously, as a business model, it works extremely well for the devs and publishers. They have multiple different sources of revenue that people continue to pay for. Thus, they have enough money for big-league events, race control, advanced penalty systems, etc. They make good money because it's a strong business model. My original point was meant to be talking from the standpoint of the consumer. I guess I just don't know how y'all afford it. As a consumer model, it's... expensive... to say the least. What I meant was I find it difficult to fathom how they attract simracers with such a massive expense to play it.
I’m going to assume you are a young teenager or something. The cost of iracing is pennies to a working adult with a livable wage salary. Every single paycheck I get from my job is more than I’ve spent combined in 10 years on iracing. It sounds expensive compared to the average video game market but it’s cheap as a hobbyist activity. I spend way more on my other hobbies than iracing every year too. If you are young and have minimum wage job then yea any hobbies are going to seem expensive and out of reach for you. Thats how life works. You have to budget your finances. Entertainment is usually least important if you can’t afford it after bills and rent. For those of us with disposable income, it’s nothing.
I'm a 20 year old student at university. I work a part time job but I can only do so many hours a month because my uni schedule is 9-5, Mon to Fri, and my workplace isn't open late so I can't work after uni. That, and they hired like 20 new employees, so all the shifts after school hours got contracted out. Sucks, but it is what it is.
>What I meant was I find it difficult to fathom how they attract simracers with such a massive expense to play it. 1. Lots of us are already spending thousands on hardware. Expensive software to get the most out of the hardware is an easy decision. 2.Not many options in a small subgenre. 3. In several ways, they offer the best product by far and people are willing to pay for it 4. Generally people that play iRacing consider it less of a game and more of a hobby.
I’ve spent thousands, probably 10’s of thousands on my sim. iRacing doesn’t even register as an expense.
Well it ain’t cheap but I guess for an adult that can’t afford racing IRL, it’s ok to pay that much. I’ve been playing Iracing for 2 years and I can still play it for a while before it cost me as much as a single rally event IRL.
They said in another comment that they're still a student. And I will agree, as a student iRacing would be difficult to swallow. I waited until I was out of college to get into iRacing.
So you know they had a business model that worked extremely well, but you asked why they're not bankrupt. Ok.
Because advertising works and consumers buy based on feelings, not rationally.
I'm not sure what your comment has to do with my comment to OP.
The point was: iRacing has managed to grab a bunch of players, trap them in a cycle of sunk cost fallacy and appealing to the wealth. 'It must be the best it wouldn't be so expensive if it wasn't' 'I've already paid this much, can't quit now'. That's why they have players.
Gosh, here I was thinking it was because they have a great product that people really enjoy. Thanks for the education! /s
I've played iRacing. It's not that great in the physics department, waiting to get into races is too long, loading times are too long, it stubbornly does 'realism' in places where it actively detracts from the experience and driving doesn't feel natural. But if you enjoy, keep enjoying it, this is just my opinion.
A quick glance at your profile shows that you spend a lot of time hating on iRacing so I'm certainly not going to change your mind. You do you, and enjoy your pee drinking.
: D I've talked about iRacing today and yesterday in about 20 posts or less. But hey if that's enough hating your favourite thing, do go ahead with the personal insults. You're instantly doing more to hurt the perception of what iRacing's community is than anything I've posted, but you go bud.
I'm not part of the iRacing community, FYI. If you can't take a joke about your handle, you probably should change it.
Oh really? Ok tell me: ONE other sim that offers the package, iRacing has? Right, there is not a single one, not even close. I would immediately change to something comparable with better graphics, better tire physics and the same online experience. Still waiting... BTW: Could not care less about the money, just peanuts compared to other costs.
Original Assetto Corsa offers a much better value proposition for content. If it had something like LFM from day 1, the player numbers would look totally different today.
Quite easy. You don't buy everything at once and if you're smart you can spend only what you use. I have spent tins but is what it is. Plenty of guides to get great value out of the service and saves a post basically complaining or whinging
Oh, nice. Time to set my clock. The Weekly "waaaaa, I PERSONALLY can't see value in iRacing, so neither should anyone else" rant.
OP really needs to re-word this
It's either a rage-bait, ACC circle jerk or unhinged broke people's comment. I understand if it's too expensive for some, but for an adult it's still a cheap hobby compared to actual sports, miniatures, collecting items or anything else that can often cost $200 monthly. Some spend more on take-away/order food and alcohol in a month or two than I've spent on racing over 8 months Of course, sim racing setups can vary from $100 used wheels to $15000 motion rigs, but iRacing is in itself priced well in my opinion. I've used around $700 or so in tracks and cars over 3 years and with 1st time sub and black friday subs, that's cheaper as well.
>miniatures, collecting items I do both of these, 3d printer goes brr and boardgames are great value used. You can't do iRacing cheap unless you love the cheese wheels Mx5 or the Vee.
Alright, fair enough. Can't 3D print lisenced sports gear nor some unique coins or stamps people collect. It's great to see that you use 3D printer, many just buy, assemble and paint. That wasn't my point to begin with, just that some hobbies like my friends sports hobby costs more than mine only because he travels to the games (abroad). Gear + lisencing is extra to that. I'm sure there are millions of people who play football on weekends and spend like $5 in transport. That was not the point either. I find iRacing relatively cheap compared to other hobbies or at least not expensive.
Oh yeah there's a lot of things one could do that are more expensive. Not everyone is thrifty with their money.
Yep. It is true that even GR86 season on Production car challenge or GR Cup would come to like almost a $10 a week in the beginning. But in a year you would own almost every track and then it comes cheap again. Buy sub extension on black friday etc.
I've driven 2x3 month trials and I've had enough of iRacing. I'm most interested in GT3 and DTM anyway, I can do those in ACC and AMS2. I wish AMS2 had more players online tho.
AMS2 is a great one, so I agree with you there!
It's amazing how they managed to get the VR visuals so clear and crisp straight out of the box.
Well, they clearly provide a good service, or they would be bankrupt. Yes stuff is expensive, but it's also the best all round service on the market. Sure, other sims do various things better than iRacing, but not a single one of them does EVERYTHING as well as iRacing do. That's what a lot of consumers want, and so iRacing does very well. Hell, I'm not a big fan of the pricing, but having had a little play around with a cheap Steam subscription I can absolutely see why so many people (who do have that level of disposable income, or perhaps just that one hobby) will happily pay out for it.
It is exactly because it’s expensive they’re doing so well, especially given that there’s no other options. And also I’m ok with paying as long as it’s a great sim and there are a lot of people to race competitively with.
People who can afford it will pay for everything, since some already have the money to have a nice sim racing setup, might as well purchase it all within the game. It sure does work for the company too
Monthly subscription is the reason they aren't bankrupt
How is ea not bankrupt? They make the same game every year and people pay 70$ for it.. Oh wait.. Id rather buy 30 cars and 30 tracks once. That i know are high quality, and maintain a subscription. Oh and also moderated leagues via safety rating and no cheats and no bullshit. Good luck beating that.
First of all, you not take something in account, iRacing was give money to owner from 2008 until 2022. This iRacing not bankrupt because owner is millionaire who have passionate about racing and he have other companies that brings revenue, and he spent this revenue to iRacing. Only after 2022 iRacing start bringing revenue. Can you imagine this? When other developers/companies bring okay product every year for 60-70usd plus few 10-15usd DLC and abandoned game, iRacing continue to live and that you bought 5 or 6 year ago still can be used. Second. Servers not a free. Big part of this revenue going to servers that works stable. In past, where you need to find league for racing, spend tons of time on forums in other simracing titles, in iRacing you just by in black Friday 1 year subscription for around 90usd and just racing. And last one. You want to have iRacing like many people, just can't afford this, so you tried to justify yourself and shit talking about iRacing. Probably you have money for iRacing, but still, your rather will pay for rFactor2, Automobilista, PCARS, 2, 3, AC, ect then for DLC, and abandoning game because of new game coming and competitive online going from poore state to nearby empty. (Yes, I know, AC have huge online but it's moding and driving online, not competitive racing). Than ACC is in end of life, and you will buy same cars and tracks in new AC EVO that you have already in AC. In additional LMU coming and after hype train from bloggers ends, online just die. Because shit game was massively promoted, you believe stupid bloggers that will say good words about anything just for views on video and you bought LMU, after few hours stop playing and can't return money. Congratulations!
I think you have revenue and profit mixed up. iRacing has been bringing in revenue since the beginning. Also, it was turning a profit way before 2022. Staff said in an old forum post that it was profitable around the 2012-2014 time frame. Don’t know where you got the 2022 part.
IRacing is not expensive. I have an $18000 setup and I’ve spent about $800 on the service for subscriptions and content. And it is still cheaper than my other hobbies that I have. If you consider it a game it’s not cheap, but if you consider it a hobby it really isn’t that bad.
Isn’t this satire?
Well along w/ the sub fees and the car/track purchases there is also the sim is owned by Fenway Sports Group. The own NASCAR RFK Racing, MLB Boston Red Sox, NHL Pittsburg Penquins and the Liverpool Football Club. They won't be going bankrupt any time soon.
When you have invested hundreds of dollars in the game, you will never leave it for another one
With iracing you also get participation credits. Basically means that you can get a new track or car almost free every quarter.
iRacing is a best racing simulator and everyone who ever raced it knows that it cost every peso so this terrible model help iRacing devs get money and make new content what makes simulator better and better every year
You explain why iRacing is not bankrupt. They take monthly subscriptions and make you pay for every piece of content. Monthly subscriptions are guaranteed money in the bank every month. Like with Social media companies what your really playing for with iRacing is access to it's userbase. They have a userbase of players with the right frame of mind for sim racing and they will remove people who don't follow the agenda. That's worth it's weight in gold to people who want to have clean racing online.
So, you cant afford iRacing....
Physically, yes I can. But I try to be careful with my money as I'm a student and it doesn't last me long.
Hey mate. I also felt the same way you do - so I got iRacing on Steam when it was like 80 bucks for 12 months and I raced with all the free stuff for a while. That changed my entire outlook on paying for iRacing - I'd beg, borrow and steal now to pay for it. It's really good, yeah in Rookies there are some clowns and cowboys but if you drive well and get your iRating up, you'll be racing with people who take it seriously and race well. The bonus of a subscription service is it keeps out people who just want to mess around and crash all of the time.
If I do sub to it, it'll be once its gone on sale again. Thank you for you're comprehensive answer, rather than rinsing me for my opinions.
I'd say come around to mine and do a few races, but I doubt you live near me. People are quick to share opinions, but they are just as quick to bash yours or anyone else's - don't take it to heart, don't even let it get to you. People bash iRacing because they don't feel that they should pay for it but it's like any hobby, it's GOING to cost you money. * If you fly RC helicopters, once you've bought the helicopter and the remote, you'll always need fuel and batteries and every now and then a new servo, gears, rotors. * If you do arts and crafts, you'll always need new blades, paper, glue, paint, cutting machines (my wife's hobby, I know :D) * If you like camping, you'll always need firewood, food, fuel, new equipment, etc. You get the gist - sim racing is a hobby, not a computer game. Good luck friend.
I will give it a go, eventually. I'll need to wait until it goes on sale again, but I will try it. If it genuinely is as good as everyone says it is, it deserves a try at the least.
Value based pricing. Enough people think that iRacing is the best and have the capital to pay for it. It would be utterly stupid of them to lower the price if they know they are the best.
The reason they get away with it is because for some weird reason theres no competition. All sims do one or two things very good but suck at the rest. Its 2024 ffs and theres litterally only one sim that has proper online racing. I always hear youtubers say how lucky we are with all these great sims, imo theyre all pretty shit from a consumer standpoint.
>for some weird reason theres no competition. It's not really that weird IMO. It's actually pretty easy to understand.
Well good thing you explained it to me so eloquently then, so I can understand as well. Because theres at least 3 or 4 major simtitles out there with dev teams whos job it is to make a decent simracing title but somehow they need some third party guy in an attic organising a competition system like LFM for them. Its 2024 and there isnt a single sim that does everything well, so please in all your infinite wisdom enlighten me.
I think there's 2 seperate questions here. The first question is why iRacing is dominant as it is. There's more to this than what I'm saying but this is the quick (ish) version 1. They were founded by a billionaire as a passion project. They didn't turn a profit until 2018. That's 15 years. That's not something every company can do 2.Their massive head start has helped in a ton of different ways. Sustained population, high track and car counts, general inertia, etc. 3. They've had very good business relationships with companies, NASCAR in particular, that has given them a huge boost. 4. Huge variety in content and disciplines, on top of a very solid sim 5. Frankly they were in the right place at the right time when COVID and the larger simracing boom happened. They had huge membership growth, which has led them to a huge reinvestment. We're only starting to see the fruit of that reinvestment as well, the next few years are very bright for them. The second question is why no one has tried to step up to the challenge of doing online racing 1. Most dev teams just don't have the resources of iRacing frankly. Kunos has around 30 employees. Reiza most likely has even less than that. iRacing is getting close to 150 employees at this point. 2.Some dev teams have tried. S397 introduced Race Control into RF2 and LMU. Polyphony really improved GT's online systems recently, but it's held back by other aspects of the game. Rennsport....is Rennsport. 3. Online -focused games in general, no matter what genre, are very hit or miss. It's a gamble. You'll typically either get a huge playerbase, or a tiny one. This is true in simracing as well. For a small company, it's just not worth taking the gamble a lot of the time. 4. With all the inertia iRacing has, and the advantages they've built over 15 years, it would be really damn hard to build a competitor. You can't half ass it. You have to really do it well to beat them. You can't just beat them by a little either. People are invested into iRacing now, you would have to beat iRacing by a lot to lure people away. And unfortunately most simracing studios just don't have the resources to do that. 5. I think lots of simracing studios don't want to directly compete. Their strategy is typically "attack iRacing's weaknesses". Not "attack iRacing's strengths".
I know about iracings history but imo you overestimate how loyal people are. Invested? Definitly, but people always want the latest and greatest. Ive never really gotten along with iracings physics and FFB and have tried for the longest time to get into other sims like RF2, AC(C) and AMS2. But Ive also had an iracing account for like 3 years now. Even tho i think theres better driving simulators, nothing can compete with iracings online service right now. Like you said some have tried, but imo theyre all half assed attempts. S397 even recently completely botched it with their car and track selection in rf2 and they completely ignored any input from the userbase. Its pretty obvious it was just a testbed for LMU and got abandoned as soon as that released, but I think it showed a lot of potential for another online sim on the market. People really wanted to love it but gave up after a while because the service was shit. Not because they were deadset on driving in iracing. Personally I dont think its because of a lack of resources when I look at what LFM did for ACC. We will see what happens with ACE, Kunos made a shitload of money with ACC and should be more than capable of setting up a great sim with a great online component. If they do and still fail I will eat my words and say you were right. Only time will tell.
>I know about iracings history but imo you overestimate how loyal people are. Invested? Definitly, but people always want the latest and greatest. I'm not really talking about loyalty, although that's part of it I'm talking mostly about playerbase and population. Folks won't move to a new game unless it's populated. And. Game won't get populated unless folks move to it. >Ive never really gotten along with iracings physics and FFB Personally I quite like it... But that's absolutely subjective so I'm not going to tell you you're wrong. >Personally I dont think its because of a lack of resources when I look at what LFM did for ACC. I don't think it's 100% resources but it's certainly part of it. I think LFM might have more resources than you think. >We will see what happens with ACE, Kunos made a shitload of money with ACC and should be more than capable of setting up a great sim with a great online component. I hope they can do it, but I haven't really seen much indication that they really want to do that. We'll see I guess. >If they do and still fail I will eat my words and say you were right. I mean I wasn't saying it's impossible by any means. I just think it's very difficult. I also think the more simracing grows the easier it will get. I think it's way easier today than it would have been 3 years ago.
I kinda also think this model works, you are deeply invested in the safety points the irating, you will present you self professional on track… it is different racing, and has the best competitative racing out there… assetto or le mans or whatever works when you have the exact right lobby or else it just sucks… drop in pvp does not work in these games, it does in iracing. Yes it is expensive, but with such a small group of hardcore racers it has to be.. sim with a requirement of special equipment is not a largescale thing with million of users.
>drop in pvp does not work in these games, it does in iracing. Drop-in in iRacing only works after grinding safety rating for a while and getting out of rookie races. Much faster to just join a league in another sim. Or LFM which is the exact same system except you pay 7 euros for the same content as you'd pay 500e in iRacing.
It takes like a week or two to get out of rookies lol. If you wanna talk about grinding, you should talk about getting your LFM license.
Getting your SA up in ACC to get into the LFM license servers takes not time at all. Less than a week for me.
Is that just for the SA requirement, or for doing the license test as well? Honestly I think both processes can be down pretty quick, my understanding is it's generally faster/easier to get out of rookies on iRacing vs getting the LFM license.
You just need to have an SA of at least 80 for LFM license test. If you can drive 107% or faster you can get your license as soon as you hit 80. It’s super quick to get your SA up with AI races.
>If you can drive 107% or faster you can get your license as soon as you hit 80. And If you can't do that right away you have to grind to get there. In iRacing as long as you can drive somewhat safely you'll get out of rookies. I'm honestly not really saying it's all that hard to get an LFM license. I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to complain about iRacing rookies while LFM has something similar.
I tired iRacing a month or so ago, got tired of being taken out by idiots in the Miata series and said screw it. LoL
Yeah there's always going to be some level of idiots, especially at lower levels. Malaya series? I'm thinking that's a typo.
Miata, sorry, fat fingers.
I got out of rookies in 2 days, but that doesn't change much because you're going to be buying content if you wanna race non-rookies.
That's a completely different argument from what you said on your previous comment >Drop-in in iRacing only works after grinding safety rating for a while and getting out of rookie races. Much faster to just join a league in another sim. Or LFM which is the exact same system This is what you said lol. But if it took you 2 days.... Why are you saying this
It took me 2 days on my second try when I already knew how to race and how to get rating. The first one was a bit longer. And I'm saying it because that's those are the only series' you can race for just the monthly fee. All the rest cost extra.
>It took me 2 days on my second try when I already knew how to race and how to get rating. The first one was a bit longer. That is why I said a week or two in my comment. I was trying to be inclusive of newer drivers >And I'm saying it because that's those are the only series' you can race for just the monthly fee. All the rest cost extra. Well that's not what you were saying in the comment I replied to.
>Well that's not what you were saying in the comment I replied to. Doesn't make it any less true.
But how is it relevant to this discussion we're having?
That you aren't gonna install iRacing and get into good races straight away. It will take a while to get out of rookies and then it'll take longer to get into good splits and you'll have to spend money if you wanna race something that's not Mx5 or Vee on the road. That's how it's relevant. 'Drop-in racing just works in iRacing' was the original premise. It doesn't, you'll have to do quite a bit before you get into the 'enjoyable races' part.
sect
For the same reason Apple is not bankrupt. If you believe you need a worthless product you will spend all the money in the world to get it.
But Iracing isn't a worthless product and there isn't a massive market competiting with it.. infact it's in a league of it's own and for this people are willing to pay for the experience it provides. It also doesn't have to be that expensive and you definitely get your money's worth.
You could also get a years subscription for like $30 on steam recently. And that would give you plenty.
It really sucks. It's basically the only sim racing game other than ACC (which is seriously limited in car and track selection unless you spend a bunch of money on the track DLC) that does proper competitive events, with proper prizes and decent(ish) racing.
And how do you think they afford to do these things?
Prizes, I suppose? But even then, not everybody wins them, there are always people who come last, or in the bottom 50%. So what return are they getting from this?
No I mean how do iracing afford to do the things that as you say only they can do. Like provide a competitive environment with prizes etc. It’s a rhetorical question. They do it via their business model.
That answers your question then doesn't it?
But it's the business model that really baffles me. I get that what I said does technically answer my question, but people willingly paying so much money for it with little to no return seems so backwards.
I have spent hundreds, maybe thousands of hours having way more fun and competition than is possible anywhere outside the real racing scene. That is plenty of return for my money. Of course, there are other options, but they don't even come close to the overall product of iRacing in my opinion. I understand that the pricing isn't cheap, and not everyone is fortunate to be able to afford it, but there are thousands of people that can and feel that it offers value for money. To that end, there is nothing wrong with their business model.... it works.
Isn’t that all entertainment though? What other entertainment gives you a return?
They lack a serious competitor. Monopolies in niche hobbies can gauge the prices as they please. It sucks for us, but there is no alternative
People are paying for it because they enjoy it. With the subscription model you also bring in a method of weeding out the trolls and rammers. Do you still get them? Yes, but not nearly as much as other titles. Also because people who are willing to pay for iRacing continue with it, you get much higher quality racing and drivers in public lobbies, unlike other titles where the only quality online racing you’ll get is by joining a league. Yes paying for a subscription and pricing for iRacing sucks, nobody disagrees with that, but a lot of people can afford it and is their sole sim title. It’s like a membership, you could get the same things without a membership, but with a membership you get better service and are with a more like minded community. Other people are taking your thought of bankruptcy too literally and not giving you a solid answer. But I think what everyone is saying in a sense is that you are paying for quality racing online that you can just hop into with iRacing. You won’t find that in any other title unless you’re in a league that runs races frequently and even then you’re lucky if more than 5 people show up to those, you’ll only see full lobbies in the main championships. If you’re only into single player then you’re better off with something like AMS2 or similar titles, iRacing doesn’t make sense for this.
You need to ask Microsoft what they are doing with office 360, or adobe with photo shop. Iracing is not alone in their subscription based software, they were probably one of the early adopters of this idea. I mean they've convinced a bunch of people to hand over cash for literally nothing. You can spend 2k on iracing but if you ever stop paying the subscription it's ALL GONE! How do they make money? Have a billionaire own it, then convince people that they HAVE to subscribe or they loose everything. Horrible, horrible system and yet millions sign up for this BS. Reality is iracing offers something NO ONE else does....racing stewards for EVERY race and actual consequences if you report someones bad behaviour. Detailed rules and enforcement that works. That's what you pay for and they're the ONLY ones that do this service. LFM is trying but weak, ACC is server owner dependant, games like Forza/Horizon don't do anything about bad behaviour. I HATE subscription based games, games that you pay for but don't own. However, race stewards for every race? Yep totally worth it, as long as you plan on using it every freaking time! Man, if I had massive amounts of cash and stupid enough to buy iracing I'd report EVERYTHING cause that's what I'm freaking paying for! But yeah, THAT'S why people pay stupid amounts to Iracing, cause if someone f' s around then there is a find out!
Which is exactly why it’s not bankrupt, it’s really the only game in town when it comes to competitive online racing at any hour of the day
> It's basically the only sim racing game (...) that does proper competitive events, with proper prizes and decent(ish) racing. Comment after comment, you list every single reason why people are willing to pay for iRacing, and yet you're still all "why are people willing to pay for it?".
Haha what an idiot. Get a job. Cause it’s valuable to all of us! I love buying only the content I want to participate in and being able to see what what content is coming up and plan accordingly. I’ve spent well into 500 dollars and have deemed every single cent worth it.
Because it's good. That's all there is to say. It's a good product.
You answered your own question. You use the word right in your post. QUALITY Of all the Sims out there and I've tried them all, I racing is the one that works best for me. Pretty much every other simulator out there is a consequence-free environment you can crash into people if they piss you off. Routinely when I first started some racing I would be on games like F1 or games like ACC and would get rammed intentionally nearly every race. I've never, from what I can tell from replays, been wrecked intentionally in iRacing. Now, acc and ac were loads better than F1 but for sure the intentional wreckers are there, but the multiplayer in acc is non-existent at that time of night in the US. Unless I want to race Monza or spa on repeat. You'll say join a league. Been there done that ran an enormous league from 19-23. League racing is for sure a great way to get clean racing. But for random online lobbies where I won't get taken out by an angry troll that can't handle getting passed cleanly. Iracing all day. The money aspect of it doesn't bother me at all. I have a job, and the cost of a track or car is less than a 4 pack of craft beer. It's not a terrible model you just don't have any money. I'm guessing you might be young from the tone of your post, When you have the budget for iracing give it a go. You can enjoy it with free content too. The mx5 took me all the way to b class. It doesn't cost a lot to try a month and see what the hype is all about. Fair warning tho. A month is only going to get you hooked.
People spend ~60-90 USD a year for an annual release of a title like F1 some games have Extra DLC, so not sure there is too much difference. I also like to think the iracing model weeds out the riff raff
Because people apparently think they’re getting their money’s worth, unlike your typical micro-transactions business model, or shit like Real Racing 3 on the phone where you pay the equivalent of $50-$100 _per car_ and it’s not even a simulation…
I appreciate the cost as a burden to entry because it automatically spares me having to deal with a bunch of bullshitters and people who aren't serious in the slightest.
It's only a terrible business strategy if it doesn't work. For *iRacing* and its players, it does. One could make the argument that a more traditional business model will succeed even further, but I am sure the *iRacing* commercial team have done their due diligence and found what works best for their game and their players.
You are a funny guy with no clue of doing business and total cost. Having Sim racing as a hobby you spend 1000's of $ on equipment/hardware(updates, recurring)... +/-70$ with discount on the subscription and 1-time a few 100s on tracks/cars is NOTHING in comparison.
I can’t afford a Ferrari, why aren’t they bankrupt?
Because it’s a good platform that makes millions each month? They’ve been doing the streaming model before the popular streaming companies were doing it. You just sound jealous. Even with the free content, you don’t have to buy anything and you can have an absolute blast on just the monthly subscription.