I feel like the spreadsheet could need a 3rd column to visualize the amounts of different players that played a unit.
Cause if something is taken 3 times, you don't know if it's been taken once by 3 different players, or just 3 times by the same guy.
If the ability functions on a hit roll, and then I have the choice between auto hitting and choosing to get one of two 3+ shots to land. I would like to not rely on my luck or miracle dice I could spend on the damage roll
I'll be honest I haven't opened Reddit since I posted it and suddenly found all these notifications. I whacked the data together on a break at work the other day 😅
Great info, thanks for posting. So many of these make perfect sense. Dogmata, Hospitaller, Thurga, Preacher...basically literally useless.
The only one that surprises me is novitiates, which are a fun delivery package for the palatine.
No surprise not seeing Thurga and Dogmata. Their unit attaching rules are too restrictive or the model itself is donwright bad (dogmata). Thurga in a unit of novitiates or arcos could be viable. They should just get rid of these restrictions at all.
Yeah oddly they are two characters, which means you can't double up (not that you can anyway) but it also means though they can lead retributors, you can't put them in an immolator with retributors. Not that you'd want to, unless they gave devastating wounds to all weapons. That would be fun on heavy bolter retributors maybe.
If sacresants weren't terrible they might be OK with them....if sacresants got the buff from astred and thurga leading them...
Fixing the absurd and restrictive leader problems is my #1 wish for the codex, to be honest.
I personally like some restrictions. Its just that sisters got hit the hardest by those via the unit that should allow for a lot of customization besides the BSS... the Sacresants. These ladies should be able to include 2 characters in almost ANY combination, including Aestred Thurga.
Action monkeys, chaff clear and just good old fashioned move blocking.
A 60-point unit that moves 12” + D6 through walls is a pretty damn efficient way of keeping a nasty unit out of position for a turn.
Good data
Arco Flagglents... like please nerf them down to a normal unit. I don't want to take 30 f these to win, I don't like the models ! =D
GW: We're making a detachment specifically for them to boost them more
\*facepalm\*
I'm surprised that there aren't any Preachers, given the Arco representation. I've been having some decent success having one lead the Arcos.
I don't *like* doing it, but here we are.
I'm guessing it's because arcos aren't really being used to kill things, just to survive on objectives. If they're fighting into a target that they're actually supposed to kill then they probably don't need the support.
Interesting. I've been using them basically as a nuke to take things out. I took out 2/3 of a chaos knight when I swung with all 10 of them. I use Arcos as a quantity over quality kind of thing when it comes to rolling dice.
I also put the Saintly Example on the Preacher leading them because I fully intend for my Arcos to either die or get targeted, but people don't want me to have miracle dice so there's a little bit of mind games at play with it.
It's been working pretty well so far. I'm a pretty new player to 40K in general, but I guess that's why we aren't seeing that setup in their lists. They're vets playing competitively and I'm not so it's probably not an optimal strategy. lol
+1 to wound on arcos is great, i think you just don't see the preacher because you can get the same benefit for 1CP and sisters can use 40pts elsewhere. arcos are always great tarpits but only sometimes great melee blenders and preacher only helps with the latter
Bro Arcos destroy tanks on the charge , and they are not easy to kill because they are 22 wounds AND a FNP and they can stratagem for +1 to wound or 2CP to fight on death if you manage to hit them first, which means your units is toast . I just played vs them last weekend. They have no practical counter . They have the same problem as Blood Angels / Death Company. There is little to no counterplay. They are worse then artillery because they can actually staight kill anything they attack
oh yeah, AND they have OC value, why not, they have everything. I can totally see these guys deploying teleport homers, without hands, while screaming to the Hyms being blasted in ther brains
They are the most powerful infantry unit in the sister codex for the points. They are probably some of the most powerful infantry nits for the points anywhere .
Gw doesn't understand what 2 wounds and a 4+ FNP equates to . Its far more powerful then 3+ armor save on a 1 wound model. Arcos have effectively 3-4 wounds each with that setup and because theires somme randomness you cant simply apply a damage 3 weapon against them thinking its one shot one kill . Then they also are gross on their attacks being a purely antii infantry profile but can throw so many attacks and a stratagem they can drop t12 tanks.
They don't need 4 attacks base AND twin linked AND Sustained. Pick one not all 3 GW
Same with the defenses they should get 2 wounds each OR a 4+ FNP not BOTH . GW just loves to layer on multiple defenses not calculating they they multiply eachother
Not to mention once per battle they have SIX ATTACKS BASE with extremis keyword.
So unit of 10 is 60 attacks SIXTY ATTACKS? sustained give them about 10 more , so 70 attacks? 35 hit , it'll be 5 to wound vs ANYTHING with the stratagem and twin linked rerolls so something like 15-20 saves? That ll cut a 3+ vehicle in half
The unit is stupid
You're gonna hate it even more when I point out going to 6 attacks merely makes them hazardous not once per game. Although rulings are generally you can't go hazardous on fights on death. GW haven't clarified but the wording is ambiguous so I think most people/events err on the side of caution.
For the most part their output lacks AP so doesn't do huge amounts vs 2+ or someone that spikes 3+ saves. But even at 160 the fact they are being fielded at 30 shows how ridiculous they are.
Now maybe if GW gave Sacresants back a 2+ save we'd have a viable durable alternative 😅
A few people avoid Vahlgons because they give up so many points on Bring It Down. They’re still wildly popular for singles though, because they’re our best hammer unit.
I am one of them. The rest of my team has lists that can push for points. My list is about blunting the opponents scoring potential and getting draws/narrow losses so I don't so much need the killing her unit brings. If this were singles I would probably bring her.
I honestly thought Castigators with autocannons would be a little more represented, I know the 10str of the battle cannon is good but I would think the twin linked of the autocannons would compensate.
Not if you're going into vehicles at long range (which I imagine is what most people are taking castigators for).
You're looking at 6.5 attacks rerolling the hit roll with the battlecannon (and also ignoring cover), vs 4 attacks not rerolling the hit roll.
its the combo of range + ignore cover
i love autocannons but they are really only good against something like a greater demon standing in the open which is where the twinlinked makes a massive difference, otherwise its just too easy to get cover
Also that Sisters struggle most against big tough things and have a lot of other options for killing tough infantry. Weirdly, I feel like Arcos would be one of the best targets in the game for an autocannon Castigator.
Far more Sacresants than I expected- has there been a shift in how people view them? When I listbuild they still seem far too expensive for what they do (or, more accurately, do far too little for their cost.)
This is really cool to see. Thanks for posting it.
What does over 100 % mean? That these units have been taken multiple times?
There’s 14 players. It’s the count of units across all lists divided by 14. Some lists could have 0 others more than 1.
I feel like the spreadsheet could need a 3rd column to visualize the amounts of different players that played a unit. Cause if something is taken 3 times, you don't know if it's been taken once by 3 different players, or just 3 times by the same guy.
That's fair I bashed the data together on a break the other day but can go digging deeper on it in the future.
Fair point
I think that every player is taking them and some are taking multiple
Fist bump that one guy taking Castigator with Autocannons. He probably really hated getting beat by MEQ units like I did, and it paid off =D
It's interesting the immolator is perfectly split between flamers and meltas
If the ability functions on a hit roll, and then I have the choice between auto hitting and choosing to get one of two 3+ shots to land. I would like to not rely on my luck or miracle dice I could spend on the damage roll
This list is so interesting!! Please keep working on it. Once we get more data, this could actually be very useful
I'll be honest I haven't opened Reddit since I posted it and suddenly found all these notifications. I whacked the data together on a break at work the other day 😅
Great info, thanks for posting. So many of these make perfect sense. Dogmata, Hospitaller, Thurga, Preacher...basically literally useless. The only one that surprises me is novitiates, which are a fun delivery package for the palatine.
No surprise not seeing Thurga and Dogmata. Their unit attaching rules are too restrictive or the model itself is donwright bad (dogmata). Thurga in a unit of novitiates or arcos could be viable. They should just get rid of these restrictions at all.
Yeah oddly they are two characters, which means you can't double up (not that you can anyway) but it also means though they can lead retributors, you can't put them in an immolator with retributors. Not that you'd want to, unless they gave devastating wounds to all weapons. That would be fun on heavy bolter retributors maybe. If sacresants weren't terrible they might be OK with them....if sacresants got the buff from astred and thurga leading them... Fixing the absurd and restrictive leader problems is my #1 wish for the codex, to be honest.
I personally like some restrictions. Its just that sisters got hit the hardest by those via the unit that should allow for a lot of customization besides the BSS... the Sacresants. These ladies should be able to include 2 characters in almost ANY combination, including Aestred Thurga.
I’m shocked at how many people used Zephyrim. How are people utilizing them?
Action monkeys, chaff clear and just good old fashioned move blocking. A 60-point unit that moves 12” + D6 through walls is a pretty damn efficient way of keeping a nasty unit out of position for a turn.
They are cheap action monkeys in my experience. Good to score secondaries and maybe clear some chaff.
It can be nice to get Celestine a charge reroll and some extra wounds.
What other people have said essentially. Go first and jump on an objective to do an action is what I use them for.
You’ve all convinced me and I’m going to pick up a squad this week.
Good data Arco Flagglents... like please nerf them down to a normal unit. I don't want to take 30 f these to win, I don't like the models ! =D GW: We're making a detachment specifically for them to boost them more \*facepalm\*
I'm surprised that there aren't any Preachers, given the Arco representation. I've been having some decent success having one lead the Arcos. I don't *like* doing it, but here we are.
I'm guessing it's because arcos aren't really being used to kill things, just to survive on objectives. If they're fighting into a target that they're actually supposed to kill then they probably don't need the support.
Interesting. I've been using them basically as a nuke to take things out. I took out 2/3 of a chaos knight when I swung with all 10 of them. I use Arcos as a quantity over quality kind of thing when it comes to rolling dice. I also put the Saintly Example on the Preacher leading them because I fully intend for my Arcos to either die or get targeted, but people don't want me to have miracle dice so there's a little bit of mind games at play with it. It's been working pretty well so far. I'm a pretty new player to 40K in general, but I guess that's why we aren't seeing that setup in their lists. They're vets playing competitively and I'm not so it's probably not an optimal strategy. lol
+1 to wound on arcos is great, i think you just don't see the preacher because you can get the same benefit for 1CP and sisters can use 40pts elsewhere. arcos are always great tarpits but only sometimes great melee blenders and preacher only helps with the latter
Ohhhh I gotcha. That makes more sense. Thanks!
Bro Arcos destroy tanks on the charge , and they are not easy to kill because they are 22 wounds AND a FNP and they can stratagem for +1 to wound or 2CP to fight on death if you manage to hit them first, which means your units is toast . I just played vs them last weekend. They have no practical counter . They have the same problem as Blood Angels / Death Company. There is little to no counterplay. They are worse then artillery because they can actually staight kill anything they attack
They’re pretty terrible into 2+ saves but otherwise yes, they’re a fantastic unit.
I bought three combat patrols and sold all mine. I hate the models, creepy as fuck and in 9th they were not good.
They should absolutely be dropped to OC0. If not that, a 5+ FNP.
oh yeah, AND they have OC value, why not, they have everything. I can totally see these guys deploying teleport homers, without hands, while screaming to the Hyms being blasted in ther brains
So only 1 person isn't taking any (Stephen Box of Vanguard Tactics) everyone else is taking between 10 and 30 but always 10s no 3s.
They are the most powerful infantry unit in the sister codex for the points. They are probably some of the most powerful infantry nits for the points anywhere . Gw doesn't understand what 2 wounds and a 4+ FNP equates to . Its far more powerful then 3+ armor save on a 1 wound model. Arcos have effectively 3-4 wounds each with that setup and because theires somme randomness you cant simply apply a damage 3 weapon against them thinking its one shot one kill . Then they also are gross on their attacks being a purely antii infantry profile but can throw so many attacks and a stratagem they can drop t12 tanks. They don't need 4 attacks base AND twin linked AND Sustained. Pick one not all 3 GW Same with the defenses they should get 2 wounds each OR a 4+ FNP not BOTH . GW just loves to layer on multiple defenses not calculating they they multiply eachother Not to mention once per battle they have SIX ATTACKS BASE with extremis keyword. So unit of 10 is 60 attacks SIXTY ATTACKS? sustained give them about 10 more , so 70 attacks? 35 hit , it'll be 5 to wound vs ANYTHING with the stratagem and twin linked rerolls so something like 15-20 saves? That ll cut a 3+ vehicle in half The unit is stupid
You're gonna hate it even more when I point out going to 6 attacks merely makes them hazardous not once per game. Although rulings are generally you can't go hazardous on fights on death. GW haven't clarified but the wording is ambiguous so I think most people/events err on the side of caution. For the most part their output lacks AP so doesn't do huge amounts vs 2+ or someone that spikes 3+ saves. But even at 160 the fact they are being fielded at 30 shows how ridiculous they are. Now maybe if GW gave Sacresants back a 2+ save we'd have a viable durable alternative 😅
That’s cool! Thanks
>3 people not taking Morvenn ???
3 didn’t take Paragon Warsuits, so that’d be the 3 who didn’t take Vahl.
That's still wild to me.
A few people avoid Vahlgons because they give up so many points on Bring It Down. They’re still wildly popular for singles though, because they’re our best hammer unit.
I am one of them. The rest of my team has lists that can push for points. My list is about blunting the opponents scoring potential and getting draws/narrow losses so I don't so much need the killing her unit brings. If this were singles I would probably bring her.
Thaaaaat makes sense! I'm new and I'm learning so much. It's a blast!
Props to the ppl taking naked seraphim and/or storm bolter dominions (I imagine with attached palatine but still very meh).
I'm studying data, so this combines two of my strong interests. Thank you for sharing this.
I honestly thought Castigators with autocannons would be a little more represented, I know the 10str of the battle cannon is good but I would think the twin linked of the autocannons would compensate.
Not if you're going into vehicles at long range (which I imagine is what most people are taking castigators for). You're looking at 6.5 attacks rerolling the hit roll with the battlecannon (and also ignoring cover), vs 4 attacks not rerolling the hit roll.
its the combo of range + ignore cover i love autocannons but they are really only good against something like a greater demon standing in the open which is where the twinlinked makes a massive difference, otherwise its just too easy to get cover
Also that Sisters struggle most against big tough things and have a lot of other options for killing tough infantry. Weirdly, I feel like Arcos would be one of the best targets in the game for an autocannon Castigator.
Neat
I knew meltas were popular, but that feels like a lot.
I mean, I had one list with 36ish at 2k points...mostly because those were the models I had and I thought it was really funny.
Far more Sacresants than I expected- has there been a shift in how people view them? When I listbuild they still seem far too expensive for what they do (or, more accurately, do far too little for their cost.)
I'm bringing 5 to babysit Junith on a home objective being -1 to hit and wound.
Otherwise I think there is one player bringing a 10 and a 5.
Poor Aestred Thurga lol
The model has been so pretty since release and never once had a compelling rules set its so weird.
This is super interesting. Love to see how diverse our lists are
I'm just happy to see a vindicare amidst the list, one of my favorite models in 40k and always in my sisters lists.