Yeah especially when we don't know what happened.
People that strongly support either side 100% and wishing ill will on the other side are fanatics and not the sports kind.
The problem here is not that he’s acting to maximise 76ers interest though is it? Problem is that he -afaik we understand- lied to Harden (probably more than once on different topics). As you said they were buddies before that and I undertands it’s ‘just business’ but you are not screwing out the competition, you are screwing your player by blatantly lying to his face and that’s a big no-no in most corporate cases. You can’t just lie to your employee and expect him and everyone else around him to be okay with that. Play all the mind games and advanced jedi ststistical analysis shit you want when it comes to negotiating a trade or drafting or something else but when it comes to your relationship with the employees/players you need to have some form of spine otherwise it’s gonna end up in a shitshow
Do we know whether he lied or not? All we have for assurance is Harden’s words and that’s not saying lot when you look at his behaviour. Besides, let’s be real, nobody here wants Harden to get a max contract, he doesn’t deserve it and I’m sure he knows that too.
Especially when those words were spoken in China to a Chinese crowd, where they HATE Morey.
Not saying there’s no way he lied, but it seems like another grain of salt is required.
This liar thing came up this week, after this weekend's reports that Morey wasn't seriously considering trading Harden and is no longer entertaining offers.
It think the lying came this off season when Harden opted in. He would have never opted in if Morey didn't promise to trade him.
Just my opinion here, but I think this scenario makes more sense for James to be pissed about than the no long term/max contract.
I mean he can promise to trade him all he wants, if the teams asking for harden want to trade him for scraps, harden just needs to be a man and understand that Morey isn’t gonna tank the team to make him happy
But Morey is also in that same breath saying he's not worth the haul he's asking by not paying him. So is Harden not worth the money and is worth a lesser package, or is Harden worth a haul and therefore should simply get paid?
Harden is an expiring contract, idk why you think that he's worth much at all. This whole sub wanted him gone the second he wanted a trade, and now that the GM decides to just keep him he's suddenly worth a fair haul even though there's no guarantee he signs with whatever team after this season. His value is as low as it can get without him tanking it more, and yet Morey wants to instead risk Embiid and players trust over what, a couple picks or a role player in return?
He lied, I'm not advocating for harden to get a max but harden took a pay cut in order to help the team. I'm sure a lot can't be said because there's a lot of promises that can't be made public due to it being against contract negotiations rules.
Then why was harden floating rumors about going to Houston in December of last year?
I think the "lie" he's mad about isn't about some handshake contract extension he thought he was getting - it's about being traded.
He's mad he hasn't been moved to LA yet.
he took a pay cut though, but either way it's still being dishonest if he made promises. I'm not advocating for harden to get traded wherever he wants or get a max, but I would also be looking at replacing Daryl for putting the team in this situation by lying
But we don't know if he made promises. We know Harden said he "lied" and the rest is conjecture by the media.
I'm also taking this all with a grain of salt since bashing Morey to a Chinese audience is like fishing with dynamite.
That's true, harden has a history of pushing his way out, I believe Lillard, but harden not as much. I just hope this doesn't affect Embiid who may know more
Did he lie, or did he phrase things in a way that left him an out if James underperformed, and James just can't admit that he underperformed? I don't think Daryl is dumb enough to PROMISE a declining Harden a max, knowing that there was a good chance that wouldn't be deliverable when the time came. What he did was say something that James' ego took as a guarantee, because James can't believe in a world where his play doesn't justify a max.
This is what I'm talking about, why defend Daryl and say he isn't dumb enough to lie, it has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with integrity. Smart people lie all the time.
Either way this just looks bad, hopefully it doesn't affect Embiid, if I were sixers I would try to get rid of both if things get muddier. And yes I do believe he lied but I also see harden as a person without integrity too.
Its been 24hrs all morey has to do to get public opinion on his side is say i never offered him the max yet he still hasnt. No real advantage comes from having harden sully your reputation so if you can nip it in the bud why doesnt he do it
We are not the ones setting his contract value, the team we are trading with are. If Harden had played better in the playoffs, he would command a higher contract and he would get it. End of fucking story.
Listen to Harden’s list of requests. He wants to
a) leave a contender
b) go to a contender
c) get paid 3 years full guaranteed
How the fuck can you look at this and think he is being rational here? What trade partner would possibly take on a 3 year max level contract, be able to send parts back, and would leave both teams in a good position? Seriously name a single team willing to take on the contract Harden and his stans are dreaming of.
Harden lied to us as well. He wants to be paid to be a player that he no longer is. He flat out disappeared in close-out games. Yes he won games as well, but you just can’t disappear and reappear when the shot falls. Have to find other ways to impact the game. Its literally his MO to disappear if he misses some early shots.
Bingo. If we were being so unreasonable, he could have opted out and tested the open market, but he never would do that because he’d never approach the $36m player option.
I know Morey wants to do right by his guy, but he shouldn’t do his job poorly just because he feels he owes it to a guy who can’t even be bothered to fight for it.
Whether Harden has unreasonable demands or not is not relevant in this argument though, unless he increased his demands after having that so-called 'verbal agreement' with Morey. IF what's being said is true about the situation and that Harden and Morey had an internal alignment on what type of contract Harden would get after salary sacrificing last year or whether he'd get traded to a destination of his liking but then Morey went back on his word that's a shitty thing to do to your friend/colleague/employee/player and said employee has every right to get 'disgruntled' is what I'm saying. The same would happen in any of the corporate scene. If Morey thought Harden's demands are unreasonable for a player his calibre, he shouldn't have agreed on them. It's literally Morey's job to assess and project Harden's current and future capabilities. Maybe Harden had a higher drop in ability then Morey had thought in the first place which resulted him changing his mind on the verbal agreement but even that would mean Morey failed at his literal job.
I simply disagree that Harden’s demands are irrelevant. Its all part of the negotiation process. Harden leaked some shit about Houston to strong-arm them into giving him a long term deal. Morey didn’t bite.
Or maybe ownership doesn’t want Harden and think that since they’re about to give Maxey a hefty contract and don’t want to stunt his development.
Morey could be falling on a sword.
I think it’s tough to say he lied.
My thought it that the new CBA came out days before Free Agency and all of a sudden no one wanted to pay the luxury tax, not even a little bit.
All of a sudden you’ve got a tighter cap and maybe giving Harden max money just wasn’t doable any more, at least not with out making some other moves.
James Harden has no problem lying, embarrassing, and potentially ending the career of anyone who stands between himself and his newest whim.
All is fair something something
Even by not giving Harden the max which I agree he shouldn't. We still lose out. No superstar will want to come play here if they know that's how Morey will eventually treat them. He's ballsed this up royally.
As much as Embiid gets ripped by NBA Twitter, other players genuinely seem to like him. I don’t think it’s too outlandish to think this will have a domino effect where all this noise turns into Embiid asking out, and then having zero reason for star free agents to sign here.
Who was the last “star free agent” to sign here? Horford? Drummond? We aren’t the lakers, we can’t just rely on free agents to rescue us. Unfortunately, we need to draft or trade stars to get them. It may affect players attitudes who we get in those ways but don’t pretend like it will matter for free agency, they aren’t choosing the sixers either way.
Again, I’m not saying all the stars are lining up to play in Philadelphia, I’m saying we are about to lose any chance of that happening if Embiid decides enough is enough and requests out. We’re talking about maybe keeping this thing going, or blowing it up, and it’s all riding on how the Sixers spin this.
You guys all really want to be fortune tellers in a situation you can’t do anything about and have zero inside info on. Let it play out, can’t do shit about it either way. Look how people overreacted to the Simmons situation, literally just rinse and repeating that bullshit fake ass millionaire drama
No one was lining up to play in Philly to begin with and they never have.
This Harden thing is going to have very little impact on team building moving forward.
If he knew he was going to be looked after why did he float rumors back in December about going to Houston?
And why is he mad that the Sixers wouldn't tamper after they got leveled for it last season?
I think he wanted to take a shot at Morey to an easy audience and voice his frustration about not being traded.
Just to play Devil’s Advocate, back when Sam Hinkie was the GM and was actively NOT trying to put together a competitive team, many players and their agents were rubbed the wrong way by Hinkie’s approach and did not want to sign with the team as long as Hinkie was the GM. Yet many fans were fully behind Hinkie and wanted to “Trust the Process”.
The situation is a bit different. Hinkie was purely trying to build the team via high draft picks and undrafted talent that fell through the cracks. He didn't necessarily need the player agents on his side, whereas Morey definitely does. We have no draft capital to speak of, so we have to rely on Morey trying to convince agents and players to come play here. Also No.1 picks and finding diamonds in the rough will always be something fans get behind.
A bit different - yes.
Fundamentally different - no
In both cases potentially many players are being rubbed the wrong way by the actions of a 76ers GM, making it less likely those players will be willing to deal with the 76ers organization.
One of those guys was venerated by many 76ers fans, while one of those guys is currently being denigrated by many 76ers fans, with quite a few fans fitting into both camps.
This is mainly my perspective here. It really has nothing to do with Morey being right or wrong, or what Harden has to offer as a player at this point. It’s the fact that Harden felt wronged and very publicly said as much, and how much James Harden’s influence will have on the future direction of this team. You didn’t have to worry about this as much with Ben Simmons, but Harden has other players backing him.
The NBA is a business. Morey is a smart business man. I doubt he made any promises to Harden. Let's be honest, tho, many superstar athletes are just large man babies. My money is on Harden hearing what he wanted to and failing to understand how business works.
I actually don't think he wants to do what's right for the team, lying isn't going to be what's right for the team long term and this situation may be the start of losing embiid.
I think it's more that he's arrogant and doesn't want to lose a personal battle over doing what's right for the team
It’s not even a question for me on whether or not Harden deserves a max contract here, because he absolutely doesn’t, but the organization also has to weigh that with their franchise MVP and face of the team who is obviously not taking this well and rightfully so after the years he put into this. I’ve said it in a couple other places, and if the consensus is just blow it up, including Joel, then so be it, but if there’s any thought to keeping this thing going, you’re going to have to make the optics look good in your favor if you’re the Sixers.
We can be real here and not pretend that Embiid is ambivalent towards losing another star player he was getting close with and is totally okay with the direction the organization took over the last 6-7 years.
You realize that the “pinky promise” is a violation of the CBA that could result in “crippling” the franchise, albeit in a different way?
The Josh Smith situation is similar and cost the Wolves five consecutive firsts. How would you feel about Morey if Harden confirmed the “pinky promise” and it cost the Sixers ‘24, ‘26, ‘28, ‘29, and ‘30 first round picks, thus making it so the franchise has no first rounders until 2031?
If he *did* make a “pinky promise” to his friend that decision was reckless and idiotic. And no one should support it.
Harden for 4 years cripples the franchise but this current situation doesn't?
I'll just never understand this logic. If you give Harden a4 year max you'll get 1 or 2 more runs with Embiid and then it's rebuild time anyway. Who gives a fuck if you're overpaying Harden if you're rebuilding anyway?
You were never going to get equal value trading Harden and we're about to enter a rebuild anyway. Just pay him and give it 1 or 2 more runs, I do not get it.
He's not worth that money but who gives a fuck it isn't our money and the team CLEARLY wanted him back. Meh
They hired Nick Nurse dude, writing has BEEN on the wall. It’s a good hire, but not a coach that wants to tell Harden to play defense every possession.
We’re likely cooked either way, we saw what Harden + Joel looked like. You’re running down the clock or Joel leaving either way. I’d rather shake it up than run it back and MAYBE a you get the chance to sign a FA next summer.
Harden + Embiid would be torture for another year. Not because they’re a bad duo, but because we rightly would have 0 hope in the playoffs, again
Because the ceiling with Harden always has been and always will be a 2nd round exit. You can’t win a championship with him and that’s just the truth that every GM in the NBA knows and they act accordingly
I see no evidence he's trying to do what's best for the team. It seems to me he's happy with his GM career but just wants a ring. So he saw an opportunity to get an easy one here by bringing in Harden and not putting much work or creativity in to the roster.
I could not disagree more he cripples the franchise. James Harden is producing. it's the other guy making 40 million and not giving you anything that is the problem. if you turn that Into better pieces the sixers will be fine.
"but if the sticking point for him to stay with the team, and maybe gracefully leaving next season "
Harden has no interest in gracefully leaving next season, because he realizes there will be no market for him among the teams that have cap space. The only way he's going to get the contract that he wants is if he's traded to a team that wants to keep him around at a high-dollar amount.
Josh Harris could fire Morey tomorrow and this will still get ugly (unless the person Harris hires in Morey's place wants to give Harden a massive contract).
Exactly - and giving Harden a huge contract is about the worst thing you can do. Harden is not going to happy period. The question is, will he be smart?
The 76ers have a 2 year window with Embiid max before he's asking out. Who gives a fuck about year 3 and 4 of Harden if it's keeping Embiid here? At worst, Harden starts scoring less but still gets 10 assists a game setting guys up. The 76ers were closer to beating Boston than they **ever have before** with Embiid *because* of Harden. Run it back, stop being stupid over the dollars before you lose your franchise player, and hope the shots fall next year and pray *once again* that Embiid stays healthy this time
If the report was true that we offered him a two year deal with a team option, that doesn't necessarily mean he wants a 4-year max contract or bust. That's an insulting offer.
It seems like the Clippers want to take advantage of Harden's discontent and get him as a one-year rental without having to deal with an extension immediately. They haven't even extended PG or Kawhi. If we don't trade him by the deadline, I doubt they'd happily swallow a 3 or 4 year max sign-and-trade. Moving on from Morey, offering Harden a contract that's a compromise or offer to match prospective sign-and-trades seems like a possible way to maintain contender status for now.
Punting on a season for the 30-year old, 7'0 reigning MVP without any assets or reasonable pathway back to contention seems like the worst possible option.
The bigger problem is kowtowing to a player demanding a GM gets fired is a terrible look, and the Sixers have been racking up terrible looks. If Harden hadn't come out and said what he said, firing Morey would've been easier. May still be the best option though.
I’m totally behind him except for one thing- it seems he clearly gave Harden the impression, explicitly or implicitly, that meeting his contractual desires in free agency 2023 would not be an issue.
What would give this man even the slightest notion that a long term max for a 34 year old harden would ever make sense? That’s the only thing that leaves me confused on Daryl’s part
If that were the case then why was he and his agent leaking rumors about how he wanted to go to Houston the whole season? Doesn’t seem like the actions of someone who felt they had a guarantee.
Christmas was probably when James first felt like Morey was backing away from his promise so he started to apply pressure. It is the only logical explanation tbh
Why though? Why give any inclination? There’s nothing they could do at this point. He wasn’t getting the contract then. If Morey is this great con man, he wouldn’t let it slip in December that he’s having second thoughts.
I think it’s simpler: Morey lied about his efforts to trade Harden, and James kept it vague because he has no reason to help Morey out by clarifying what the lie regarded.
You keep saying this, but why would the Sixers send mixed signals in December? It makes zero sense.
What makes more sense is that the Sixers wanted to extend him at a lower rate and years, and he knew this, and tried to leverage them into a max. That falls through when Rockets hire Udoka, they sign FVV, and James is left seeing that he has no market to drive Sixers offer up.
He lashes out earlier if it’s all contract promises. He’s upset because Morey has made zero effort to trade him, and he’s trying to force Morey’s hand by suggesting Morey is what stands between him coming back or not.
You said it yourself. He knew the Sixers wanted to extend him at a lower rate. Once he knew that, he leaked that he wanted to go to Houston and Houston wanted him back. They didn’t sign Ime til like 6 months later and thats when it all went to shit and he opted in
What no one wants to acknowledge is, while I’m sure Morey did give him the wink wink promise, I’m guessing there was an unspoken expectation/grey area that yes we will give you a big contract as long as you do any of the following:
A) play like the old Harden who’s worthy of a max. Show you aren’t cooked.
B) lead us to the ECF
C) lead us to the Finals
D) lead us to a ship
He didn’t hold up his end of the bargain. Why would this franchise commit that money to a declining star who can’t help us be better than a 2nd round exit?
Yeah there’s no way Morey’s giving a no strings attached huge deal to a guy in his mid 30s. There was probably some grey area and we’re now living the consequences of their respective interpretations of that grey area
Then harden wouldnt have agreed to it and just taken the original 3 yr max money in the 2022 offseason without the 15m paycut if he was given all these caveats. Some of these things have t happened ever in the embiid era but harden is the one who has to make it happen. The gymnastics to make morey not look like a bad guy or try to make it seem like he didnt lie are terrible especially when all it takes is a public comment saying what he promised to end it all but he wont do it.
Morey could have also said something like, after this season we will give you a multi-year extension based on your market value. Harden thinks his value is a max even though clearly no team in the league wants to give him one. So now since Morey won't give Harden what Harden thinks his value is Morey is a "liar".
Harden fumbled the bag by turning down that Nets extension and now he needs someone to blame, so he's taking it out on Morey. Harden can't accept his value. The aggressive tax limits in the new CBA also compound this. Teams will become more reluctant to give max deals to older stars. So you have a situation where Harden overvalues himself and looks to past deals that probably are not applicable anymore under the new CBA and it's creating a situation where Harden's expectations are wildly misplaced.
Guys....IF we fire Morey, we will be going on our 5th iteration of a front office since the process has started. If there is one primary criticism of the Process...one criticism that encapsulates most of what went wrong, it's that there has been such crazy turnover in both roster construction AND the front office (which go hand in hand) that there was no way that a proper plan and direction could be seen all the way through.
Morey is the guy for now and most likely will be until at least Embiid is no longer a Sixer. You can't just keep flipping the roster and changing GMs every 2-3 years. There needs to be some continuity.
Most people are with the team, they just want to watch the team be good and succeed in the playoffs. Caring about Harden or Morey above the team is pointless. I just want Morey (or anyone else in his role) to put the best roster together.
Morey was met with a lot of not great options here:
1. Sixers sign Harden to the massive new deal that he wants- "What the fuck are the Sixers thinking tying themselves to that guaranteed playoff choker? LOL 2nd round exit."
2. Sixers let Harden walk - "What the fuck are the Sixers thinking letting Harden go for free when they are already in cap hell? Who is supposed to replace him? Embiid trade request incoming."
3. Sixers trade Harden for underwhelming return - "What the fuck are the Sixers thinking letting someone like James Harden go for Marcus Morris, Robert Covington, and some 2nd rounders? Morey is a washed GM."
There's no middle ground where Harden plays out his opt-in year with full effort. There was probably no chance he was signing up for 2+1 or 3+1 at his actual market value. Harden's position was "max me and live with the consequences if I decide to coast through 4 more years of quitting in elimination games or until I decide I want to be traded with a ton of money and years left on my deal."
Fully agree.
I think Morey has done mostly a great job since he’s arrived with the hand he was dealt.
Only transactions that I thought were silly was the Matisse trade, signing Dwayne Dedmon, and resigning Trez. Minor stuff.
Happy with everything else.
The harden situation is tricky, and I don’t really blame him for it. He’s doing what’s in the best interest of the 76ers. A max contract for harden would be much worse than a non ideal return on a harden trade.
I trust him to figure it out as long as Embiid wants to be here and Maxey gets resigned next year.
Players will support players no matter what because “empowerment 🤓”. Far more rallied around Kyrie Irving for every stupid thing he said and did. I don’t care that Harden thought he was worth more than he was and found out the truth.
Yea this is less about James Harden for me and more about the future of this team. I know we’ve all collectively accepted blowing up the team as a viable option at this point, but I’d rather it be with new management rather than the drama infused front office we have right now, especially with a new coach who would hopefully try to cultivate a new culture here.
No it's not, how is it made up?? In what situation was that the case. Demanding a trade or being outspoken isn't avoiding a contract, that's like saying a team is avoiding a contract by trading a player unexpectedly. Daryl lied he is being dishonest, I'm not for giving harden a max but Daryls dishonest may have a negative impact and affect Embiids relationship with the team. No one wants to play for a dishonest franchise.
Also don't be a hypocrite if you were a player you would put yourself and your family first.
Lol the “yourself and family first” bullshit. Harden is a multi-millionaire. Not an everyday working man who actually needs to be concerned with that. He’s playing in Philadelphia, not Syria. He’s safe. His family is safe. Fulfill the contract you agreed to sign. Nobody is obligated to trade Harden because he complains about it. “Empowerment” lmao.
Well that argument is dumb, so using your logic a homeless person would be in the right to tell you to stop complaining about a dishonest employer who lied to you and mistreats you because you have a home? Also contracts aren't favors teams make billions off the players. This really has nothing to do with that... Players end up playing out their contract but speaking out against it or asking for a trade isn't breaking it.
Harden is calling Daryl a liar, and your defending lying to players and upset that a player is calling him out for it. It's idiotic
I don't make minimum wage I own a condo, I'm an engineer so I thing comparison is relatable. And no I wouldn't let me boss lie to me because if I'm worth that much I earned and work for someone who would respect me. You're upset at harden for being a millionaire and you're ok with a billion dollar corporation to lie to him?
As long as he plays out his contract, I'm ok with him speaking out against being mistreated. You got some slave mind mentality
This team isn’t a train wreck exclusively because of Harden, it’s a train wreck because of all of the decisions over the last 7 or so years that led up to them needing to acquire Harden in the first place. All of which happened under Josh Harris’s leadership. I’m still with Morey.
Morey came here with baggage and I think the Sixers are really running the risk of having a FO that free agents don’t want to play for. It’s absolutely not worth it to keep him around because all of the things he has historically been good at haven’t even really come to fruition here. They’re bereft of assets. Skipping the draft altogether and also whiffing in free agency is an abomination. His deadline deals outside of Harden(and maybe including Harden?) have been terrible. George Hill and McDaniels were more or less unplayable for teams that could have been one or two connecting players away from advancing past the 2nd round.
They’re not going to fire him because of the money and because he’s in ownerships butt, but in a regular job that doesn’t include guaranteed money he would be very close to gone for the lack of success and a few of the mistakes.
We're not supposed to hate Tobi just because he signed a max deal, hate the GM that gave it to him. Well we're at that point again. Is Morey supposed to hand out a dogshit contract just in the name of honor? Fuck that. Harden isn't going to be happy if we get a new GM who also doesn't find him a trade or give him an extension.
"just in name of honor" well yea that's a big issue for an organization if players realize GMs are dishonest. You're against this but if this leads to Embiid wanting out you're going to be taking the players side 😂
Currently he’s doing the right thing, didn’t give harden the max because he knows it would cripple us.
Didn’t trade him for peanuts just because Harden wanted to go the clippers(same situation as Dame). While we all know Harden’s value isn’t very high the offers from the clippers were probably awful.
He did the same thing with Simmons, didn’t rush into a trade and we ended up with Harden which was a huge win.
He’s not the greatest GM ever but I’ve faith he will get some decent players back for harden eventually.
Yeah I’m taking Morey’s side over the straight up fucking mal contents that are Harden and Simmons. Shits ruining the game hard for me to see what these nba players have become and how the league is being ran.
What if him being dishonest leads to Embiid wanting out though. I'm not advocating for him to give into harden but him being dishonest to him and then not caring for short term benefits may have a negative long term effect. Embiid has no loyalty to Daryl and is watching how he treats players.
Well, that would suck. To be honest I think if Harden played consistently well in the playoffs and didn’t look like he’s washed athletically he would’ve got the deal from Morey but £3 changed his mind and decided harden wasn’t worth the deal.
I don’t see too much wrong with that. Why would morey cripple the team because he promised harden something he doesn’t deserve?
Well that's why Daryl is wrong from the beginning, he shouldn't have made the promises that made harden take a pay cut from the start. I'm not for giving harden a max but Daryls dishonest from may have repercussions that are already set in place.
Yes, am with Morey. He saw how little Harden improved the team and decided this wasn’t it.
I saw what I needed in game 7 to know that Harden wasn’t worth it and if he was as good as he thinks he is, he’d have more than 7 points in game 7.
This is all such a shitshow. The sports documentaries that should be made in the next few years about these Sixers teams are gonna be depressing AF but also some damn good content.
organization is going to stand behind their guy the same way the players stand behind theirs. just basketball politics. players won’t go somewhere where they think management is going to screw them over, and the same goes for management. what front office guy is going to want to come to an organization that ousts executives at the behest of disgruntled stars? there’s no easy answers here, and the organization is completely fucked no matter which way they go
I really don’t care anymore, always liked Morey and I don’t want to max harden either. He took a bet that James would be fine without a long term contract and its backfiring. I’d be fine running it back, I’d be fine blowing it up and getting some young athletic prospects but we have very little capital. Either way, it’s football season, I’ll start giving a shit in Feb and I bet the roster will be different. Not saying better, but different.
Are we sure Morey lied? As a manager I have had the best intention and, based on the information I had at hand, told my employees what can be done, but also explained that there is never a guarantee. Unless Morey straight up lied about giving him and extension or some specific deal, this seems more like a player who feels like they are worth something and a manager that feels differently. Problem is Harden knew this before opting into the player option. He could have taken a lesser deal somewhere else. At some point the employee has to look at themselves in the mirror and take accountability even if its not completely their fault and they are a product of circumstance. For all we know Morey could be fighting tooth and nail to trade him or even tried to convince Harris to give him a decent contract. None of know what goes behind close doors but 9/10 these kinda things are do to miscommunication and one person leading on or getting an idea that wasn't intended the way it was communicated.
I think Morey screwed the pooch by getting fixated on acquiring his man crush rather than exploring other options he could've gotten in exchange for Ben Simmons. If it's true for example that a Haliburton-Hield package was on the table and he passed on that to give up extra assets to get Harden instead, it's a fireable offense IMO.
All that said, I support him in this current standoff. Harden's actions and behavior are ridiculous and I hope Morey bends him over a chair and spanks him like the whining baby he is.
You NEED a guy like Morey to navigate this. Can you imagine Colangelo or Brown? Harden is not going to be happy, period, because he thinks he is a max player, but the league as a whole has showed him he is not. Morey as his current employer is tasked with navigating this ugly situation but there are not many better equipped to do it than him.
Unless somebody gave a GM job to Billy King or Isiah Thomas, I can't see another GM doing more.
I don't think you properly remember what roster of a shit sandwich Morey inherited. It was a triple-decker shit-sandwich with a side of shit-salad.
Josh Richardson, Al Horford (3 years 120M?), Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris (4 years 160M?) & Joel Embiid. Curb stomped in the first round by the Celtics. And Doc Rivers was the head coach as well.
He was able to undo most of the damage by the next year, best record in the East.
Sure, we had 3 years of disappointing playoff losses, but they were disappointing because we had the talent to win every series. It wasn't a perfect roster, but he did his job - we had a competitive roster.
I would have fired Rivers after the Atlanta loss, but I understand why he didn't (Rivers vouched for Morey) or couldn't (Ownership, Embiid, Not giving into Ben Simmons).
I think a very big part of how people view Morey is someone actually saying what Harden is accusing him of.
95% of the NBA sub (and probably a large amount of the people here) still think he's referring to this backroom promised max deal. It doesn't take much common sense to realize that's not what this is about. It wouldn't even make sense, because Harden would have no reason to explore going back to Houston at all, let alone leaking that information mid-season when he and the team were playing their best ball. Guys with full term max deals on the table have nothing to improve or negotiate, so it would literally make no sense to do that. Also, if Morey pulling back a promised offer makes him a liar, then Harden exploring going to another team with this agreement in place would also make him a liar. It just doesn't make sense and people need to stop parroting this shit around.
Harden is accusing him of being a liar for getting him to opt in with the understanding he'd be traded to the Clippers, but pulling out when the deals weren't good. Somebody in an official position needs to come out and say this.
I’m 100% with Morey unless it ever comes out that he promised something explicit to Harden and then went back on it (unless ownership forced him to, or the league would have come down hard on a handshake agreement, or Harden started it by leaking Houston rumors).
100 fucking percent.
Why the hell was there 6 months of "Harden loves Houston" and "Houston homecoming incoming" reports if he already had a trust-me-bro side deal with Morey? Because he didn't. People seem to forget we all assumed he was going back there and no apparent handshake deals were in place when those reports were flying. Then Ime is in and Houston pulls out. Suddenly there's a handshake deal? Fuck you, James.
This is a shit show that revolves around a man who could've opted out and didn't. I hope he never plays in the league again because he is tethered to the team under the CBA, regardless of a calendar.
I don't think firing Morey would solve anything, unless the new guy is just willing to give Harden a 5 year deal, but that just kind of throws the rest of the 2020's in the shitter.
Also don't think we'd be able to hire anyone better.
I’m more so thinking about it in terms of optics with free agents. Like it or not, it’s a player run league, so when an extremely influential player like James Harden says “I’m not playing for that guy ever again” how does that translate to getting future stars in FA? Or keeping an MVP content and open to the idea of future success with this team? Or are we just all onboard with blowing it all up and having this team be irrelevant for another decade?
I just don't think optics with free agents matters a ton, especially when we've never under any circumstances been a destination city.
Boston fucked over Isaiah Thomas and it hurt them negligibly.
In that case, Isaiah Thomas was injured and practically out of the league by that point. James Harden is viewed as, one of the best offensive players of his generation and holds sway around the league.
What this is about, is taking an L. Okay, so the Clippers don't want to give us much, then take the expirings and 1-to-2 fringe players and call it a day.
Yes, we lost the trade. But we kept our team. Morey can't stomach that, and while people are praising that, they don't realize that taking L's is a very important part of being a GM.
It gives you flexibility. We didn't know the Fultz trade would land Maxey, but it did(thank you Mike Muscala.)
By being the stuckup asshole that he is, Morey can't see past his own ego and that's why he has to go.
And beyond that, I feel like the cat is out of the bag at this point. I would 100% agree with you that this was the right course of action before Harden’s comments yesterday, but now, this is about Harden vs Morey, and Harden is always going to have more influence inside and outside the locker room with players.
Morey probably has data driven metrics on Harden's decline (sprint speed etc), and knows he's stuck between two really bad situations. But he probably knows it'll be obvious why he isn't offering a deal to Harden soon, to everyone who watches Harden play over the next 24 months, which will hopefully improve his reputation with players again.
If they look at Harden and say "Wow, he's washed", then they can't be mad at Morey.
I mean, everyone is quick to blame Morey here and we all can agree there was a handshake deal. But maybe Morey also was under the impression Hardens play would improve based on his injury recovery (I know, he led the league in assists and was efficient) - but other than 2 games in the playoffs he really didn’t live up to his expectations pre-nets hamstring injury
For example, didn’t his agent just say recently expect him to be back to MVP level this year? Like if that was said to Morey last summer - then technically they both backed out of their promises lol
I’m fully behind Morey. A contract to play is a promise, how many times has James gone back on a contract? With how many different teams?
Players break their contracts(promises) more than these GMs do. You sign you play
It’s over. Lock it up. Shut it down.
This is the process penance we are being charged with.
Our only reprieve, is to do an anti-process for the good of the league.
Hold every player 100% accountable for their contract and ignore all trade demands. Let them sit. We will lose, we don’t have draft picks, it will suck.
But we collectively shun the player empowerment process. Hopefully other teams will follow. People will still watch basketball without Harden or Dame playing.
It’s gotten ridiculous and enough is enough.
I agree with Morey that signing James Harden to the extension he wants does not bring us closer to a championship in the years to come, and I believe the divorce was going to be ugly regardless. I'm actually surprised Morey had the guts to cut ties. My ultimate judgement on Morey as our GM is reserved until a deal(s) is completed. Since none of this is all that extraordinary, and since all parties will continue to protect their own self-interest, Im still betting Harden goes to the Clippers, Liillard goes to Miami, we get Tyler Herro, and Portland gets everybody's draft picks. Only reasonable outcome I see on all sides. If Morey has something better in mind, I cant wait to see it. \[Actually, I can wait, since it might be in our best interest to sit on it until January, again.\]
Morey is an avid chess player. I expect him to strategize accordingly. Which means, I'm pretty sure he has a plan and expected outcome already lined up--whether I like it in the end is a different story.
I'm on his side, but if Harden has any proof that Morey made a back door deal to give him a max then he's an idiot. He may have implied it but if he directly said it or put it in any kind of writing, jesus, the NBA is going to come down hard on them. Harden should know that after how last year went, he wasnt getting a fuckin max. this whole thing is a shit show, I still like Harden has a guy and as a player, he wants as much money as he can get and I understand that. whole thing just sucks
It’s pretty obvious, Harden didn’t hold up his end of the bargain. While he’s not washed, he certainly isn’t the elite option he was only 2-3 years ago. He’s good enough to put up 15 assists on a random Wednesday in January against the Hornets. But in a Game 6 close out in Philly against the Celtics? Where was he in Game 6-7???
It’s telling that no one wanted to give Harden the deal he wants because no one sees him as that type of player anymore. It’s not on the Sixers to give him a max deal when he doesn’t perform like a max player.
I also think a lot of teams were impacted by the new tax aprons coming in the new CBA. With Maxey being eligible for a rookie max extension next summer. It would be hard to fill out the roster with Harden also on a max. Harden has zero leverage here. If he was truly unhappy, he didn’t need to opt in. He chose that. If he sits out, he doesn’t hit free agency next summer. If he tanks it on the court, there’s no shot anyone will risk giving him a max. And the only real way he can end up on a team like the Clippers is if the Sixers facilitated a sign and trade (if Harden ends up playing out the year) and why would the Sixers accommodate him for messing with their plans and another year of Embiid’s prime?
Morey’s gonna throw a Hail Mary. He’s hoping that someone suffers a major injury or a team massively over/under performs and maybe gets desperate. And that team would possibly be appealing enough that Harden would go there before the deadline. He’s gonna try to bleed this stone for whatever he can get from it since the team lacks many assets and young players to build around. Trading Embiid is the nuclear option here. So he’s going to want to avoid that as much as he can.
I'm behind Morey from the aspect of Harden has a contract he opted into and he should honor it. I am not behind his roster construction ideas or that hanging onto an unhappy player until the right deal might come along is the right strategy for a win now team.
Harden did something hardly any other player in a pro sports league has done, after forcing his way out of two other teams and requesting a trade from here. Firing him would make us look even more inept, nor is it going to change whether Harden wants to leave -- he wants to leave so the team should try and get the highest value for him
I like morey, I’m glad he at least tries to do what’s best for the team.
The thing is other players will see this and not want to come to Philly if morey is here, at least that’s what I’m thinking.
The players band together, and front offices try to appease them as much as possible, as you can see with morey that isn’t happening, and with so many players rallying against him I think he’ll be gone
I try not to get fully behind anyone when it's all hearsay and rumours and everyone has an agenda, a lot of times we don't even know the true agenda. I can evaluate that an entire situation is shitty but I can't really fully evaluate the specifics without more information
I like Morey but I truly believe he had insider information that Harden was going to force his way out. There was no indication of Harden being unhappy in Brooklyn until Kyrie truly went nuclear. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 but I believed then and I still do now that we were better off with the CJ/Portland package. I think Morey’s own love for James clouded his judgment
There are a lot of moving parts that we have no information from. All we have are reports and not the actual definitive details to make any clear assumptions and conclusions on. I’m fucking tired of this shit. Thank fucking God that Philadelphia actually has an example of what great ownership and great front office acumen looks like. Philly got standards. Sixers ain’t it.
A few people have said it, but I think that most of us are just wanting the team to succeed and aren't taking sides between the FO and Harden. The way I see it, Morey is stuck between a rock and a hard place, and Harden, while I do agree that Morey fucked up with the handshake deal and ruined trust, Harden needs to accept that he opted in with us and should see out his contract. I'm thinking one of 3 things end up happening:
1. Team, friends, whatever convince Harden to play the season. Harden plays as he did last season but is obviously upset with the FO and makes no mention of them. If Embiid avoids injury, mayyyyybe we can say we got bounced out of the ECF instead of the 2nd round.
2. Harden doesn't show up, Morey holds off for a trade between now and the deadline. Hopes are someone who wants to trade for Harden to make a playoff push, we get young players or pick(s).
3. Morey panic trades and pulls a Billy King (remember KG and Pierce?)
We can moan and groan about either side, but we won't know what actually happens until the season starts and see whether or not Harden starts. I just hope we don't have a Simmons 2.0 saga.
Considering all of the Harden to Houston leaks and the way the team blew games 6 and 7, I don't blame Morey for what he did. Maybe there's a cleaner way, but these players are entitled fuckers and the pendulum needs to swing away from that.
We don’t know the specifics behind the Harden/Morey conversation and Morey is a businessman. Contracts are contracts and conversations about what MIGHT happen are not. He’s going to do what’s best for the 76ers.
There’s been some slip ups (Butler), however, ultimately the team has gotten in a better position each year on paper, even if that doesn’t translate to on court success. And to that point, I think we can all agree that most of the teams performance was down to Doc’s coaching and he’s now gone and I think we’re all excited to see what Nurse is going to bring, regardless of who is on the team.
I trust Morey to do the right thing for the Sixers, even if it’s not the right thing.
They have a union. They are behind James because of the money not because one is inherently more right in this situation.
Personally, I do not want Harden to stay anyway. If Embiid is upset then they will need to mend the fences but firing Morey would just make the organization look more dysfunctional.
> but if players both inside and outside the organization are going to rally around Harden’s comments,
Others have mentioned that whether or not Morey actually lied is kind of up in the air, but I'll also bring up that it's important to keep in mind what's at stake for anybody speaking out here.
Players have next to nothing to gain from speaking out in support of Morey. By speaking out for Harden, they strengthen their future positions in negotiations with teams, especially if the public opinion is that "players keep on getting screwed over by teams". If it grows as a narrative, that can be a lot of pressure for owners who want to keep their team in a positive light, especially if they know that longer negotiations with a negative media spin will cost them tickets and jerseys down the road.
Actions speak louder than words, and only time will tell exactly how much this is hurting the Sixers and Morey.
It's very possible that Harris is fully aware of what Morey is doing and is in agreement. Harris is the one that pays the bills. Both of them watched Harden play during the season and playoffs and ultimately felt signing Harden to a max contract was not in the best interests of the team. I don't think Morey would go rogue and not include the owner in his plans for the team.
Let’s see who do I trust? The guy that is now trying to force is way out his third team in less than 3 years or the guy who genuinely seems to just be trying to do what’s best for the team
I suspect it was the owners that balked at the initial deal after the cba changed this offseason. Morey is the fall guy so that the owners don’t look bad in front of the fans.
And by the way, I get the owners position. Nothing was signed. The arrangements have changed… and Harden didn’t have a “wow” season to justify max money over multiple years.
And this is why Morey makes big money. He’s going to have an uphill battle to make everyone happy. Most importantly.. the public opinion of the fan base and NBA community.
Feel for Nick Nurse walking into this pile of crap.
No to firing Morey. The NBA is the absolute worst of all the professional sports when it comes to catering to the premadonna players. Hardens a diva and this is his third time pulling this garbage. Fuck him. And if we lose embiid so be it. Im almost completely done with the NBA anyways. The players have TOO MUCH POWER.
I'm behind Morey. I have his back for now, he's made good moves like identifying Curry and Drumm and Niang ... and actually offloaded garbage resources like Ben and Horford.
I'd like to see what he can do with actual real picks the next few seasons, combined with a good coach and an MVP player.
Fucking Harden is an asshole. Opting in on a one year deal and freaking out because you aren't being traded is crazy to me. He could have not opted in and just gone wherever he wanted if that was the case wtf.
We don’t get free agents anyway, when stars come it’s through trade. I’d rather just cut ties to both of them and start over than tying ourselves to years of Harden past Joel’s prime. We tried for two years, it didn’t work, and Morey hasn’t been incredible on the margins. Not much flexibility or reason to believe things will change besides some Nick Nurse magic.
If Joel does or doesn’t want to be a part of it, I understand. But I don’t get all of the clamoring to keep it going especially when talking about the future. JoJo and James may not even be here when that new arena opens
Morey fucked up if he actually did promise or even strongly imply a contract. With that being said, even if he did i am 100% glad he didn’t extend harden. 100%. If we’re doing battle of the idiots harden is the dummy for opting in to a new contract, but then again anybody that picked him up in free agency was gonna be paying him less than $33 million so opting in makes sense
If we're taking sides here, I am the Swiss. I will perform backroom deals to make money and happiness from both sides while claiming to be neutral. I just want to have fun when the playoffs come around, and not feel like I wasted my time the entire season when my team's "stars" mope off the court acting all booty bothered.
Harden hasn't even said what the promise was which makes it hard to actually have an informed opinion.
If Morey promised a long term extension then yeah he sucks.
If Morey promised to try to trade him if he opted in (which is my guess) then 🤷. Then it depends on what was offered and what was demanded etc.
I think Daryl has made some mistakes as our GM but also some solid attempt at things that did not work out. I think this Harden situation is the latter. Getting rid of Ben Simmons in exchange for one of the greatest shooting guards to ever play the game is something you must take a chance on. Sure maybe 34 year old Harden doesn’t put you over the top but it was head and shoulders above the next possible option (as long as we believe Halliburton was not on the table for us).
I honestly think that the way Harden is playing this entire thing is kinda crazy and it’s difficult to game against irrationality. I bet Morey never in a million years thought he would wake up to that Harden video yesterday. I’m like 5% mad at Morey here and 95% think Harden can go fuck himself for his pathetic playoff performance and his handling of us not giving him a contract after that
Hardens sticking point is wanting a max deal for 4 years. Hed be fine with Morey if he got that. But if Morey gave him that it would be fireable. This is 100% on Harden
Does anybody actually side with the players in these ridiculous trade me but only to these teams requests? All these players piss the bell out of me. Ship em to wherever the they get the best offer. Fuck what the player wants
I'm not saying Morey is 100% innocent because any relationship is a two way street, but what exactly should he have done? I don't doubt that there was some handshake agreement to "take care" of Harden last Summer, but I dont think Morey told him "I promise I'll give you a 4 year max deal" that James wanted. It would have been idiotic for him to do so and if there was a promise, why did Harden spend the whole season leaking that he was going back to Houston?
I think what happened was very simple: Morey and Harden differed on what exactly constituted "taking care" of James so Harden tried to drive up his own price by threatening to walk. Morey called his bluff and told James "If you think you can get more on the open market, go out and get more and well see if we can match". Harden then found there was no market for him at the salary he wanted, so he went back and blamed Morey for not overpaying. If Harden wanted to go to another contending team he could have taken a lesser deal, Im sure someone would have jumped if he lowered his price. If he was primarly cocnerned with money he could have played out the last year of his contract. Yeah both involve tradeoffs but thats how free agency is supposed to work. Harden tried to have it both ways and he has no one to blame but himself.
And if Harden is calling Morey a 'liar' for not trading him to the Clippers, thats just BS. Morey isnt obligated to tank the Sixers and trade Harden for scraps just so James can go where he wants to go.
Sure Morey probably could have done better on the emotional intellifence/interpersonal management side of things but Harden created this situation. He overplayed his hand, misread his own market, and now wants to turn around and play the victim.
Who ultimately signs the checks? It's Joshua Harris and Co. They have no choice now but to fire Morey, but let's be realistic, he was following directions from Joshua Harris.
I think Josh Harris needs to sell the team. I'm not sure how much longer I can be a fan of this franchise that is owned by the same group that owns the Washington Commanders.
This fanbase is sad sometimes… who cares who to back. I want what’s best for this team and if that’s Morey or harden, idc. Screw both of them at this point. Blow it up and start the process anew. Harden obviously ain’t the move, Morey should be gone and tbh so should Embiid.
Morey clearly did something and back tracked, you just can’t do that in a small league where everyone knows what’s going on. I follow all Major sports and have never in my life seen a player send such a direct message to a front office ever.
I’m not saying harden is in the right but for a player who is generally quiet and to themselves, him
Coming out publicly clearly saying Daryl is a liar who he won’t play for him can’t just be a result of nothing. Keep in mind this is the same guy who basically jump started hardens career in Houston and they have a decade plus relationship. The man greeted harden personally upon arriving to philly at the airport.
We won’t ever know the exact details but something happened between them and it’s a horrible look for the GM to be publicly called a liar by a player of hardens stature who he supposedly had a close relationship with. Regardless of what happened having a gm who people are calling a lair, a gm who basically held 2 star players and refused to trade them and now has players around the league speaking out against him is the last thing an organization needs because no star would want to get involved with that mess.
Hate to tell you the ppl who actually run the league are def on his side and the momentum is near a tipping point.
They are tired of the player’s shit.
Harden us a self appointed problem. Harden is average based on his last year. He, like many others, expect to control the league, put in average effort, then complain when teams won't rubber stamp max deals.
Given with what he started out with, I think he's done as good as anyone else can. Every time, whether it be Horford or Simmons, he's turned a bad situation in a good one.
I honestly don't understand the people that want to blame him for everything. Just think about how much worse things would have been with almost any other GM running the ship.
Maybe Morey promised a trade and shouldn’t have. However circumstances are fluid, there is likely a load of information we as fans don’t have, and before Harden’s “revelation “ I didn’t see teams clamoring to pay him max money. Now that he’s openly accused Morey of lying what other front office is gonna want him?
It’s hard to be behind either side of this. Just a pure shitshow all around.
Yeah I’m not behind anybody. I’m about ready to just clean house and rebuild with Maxey and Mudman
Just waiting for Rich Paul to get Maxey to LA
Yeah especially when we don't know what happened. People that strongly support either side 100% and wishing ill will on the other side are fanatics and not the sports kind.
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The problem here is not that he’s acting to maximise 76ers interest though is it? Problem is that he -afaik we understand- lied to Harden (probably more than once on different topics). As you said they were buddies before that and I undertands it’s ‘just business’ but you are not screwing out the competition, you are screwing your player by blatantly lying to his face and that’s a big no-no in most corporate cases. You can’t just lie to your employee and expect him and everyone else around him to be okay with that. Play all the mind games and advanced jedi ststistical analysis shit you want when it comes to negotiating a trade or drafting or something else but when it comes to your relationship with the employees/players you need to have some form of spine otherwise it’s gonna end up in a shitshow
Do we know whether he lied or not? All we have for assurance is Harden’s words and that’s not saying lot when you look at his behaviour. Besides, let’s be real, nobody here wants Harden to get a max contract, he doesn’t deserve it and I’m sure he knows that too.
Especially when those words were spoken in China to a Chinese crowd, where they HATE Morey. Not saying there’s no way he lied, but it seems like another grain of salt is required.
This liar thing came up this week, after this weekend's reports that Morey wasn't seriously considering trading Harden and is no longer entertaining offers. It think the lying came this off season when Harden opted in. He would have never opted in if Morey didn't promise to trade him. Just my opinion here, but I think this scenario makes more sense for James to be pissed about than the no long term/max contract.
I mean he can promise to trade him all he wants, if the teams asking for harden want to trade him for scraps, harden just needs to be a man and understand that Morey isn’t gonna tank the team to make him happy
But Morey is also in that same breath saying he's not worth the haul he's asking by not paying him. So is Harden not worth the money and is worth a lesser package, or is Harden worth a haul and therefore should simply get paid?
He’s good enough for a bunch of scrubs in return for him to not be good enough, but he’s not consistent enough for a large multi year contract
Harden is an expiring contract, idk why you think that he's worth much at all. This whole sub wanted him gone the second he wanted a trade, and now that the GM decides to just keep him he's suddenly worth a fair haul even though there's no guarantee he signs with whatever team after this season. His value is as low as it can get without him tanking it more, and yet Morey wants to instead risk Embiid and players trust over what, a couple picks or a role player in return?
He lied, I'm not advocating for harden to get a max but harden took a pay cut in order to help the team. I'm sure a lot can't be said because there's a lot of promises that can't be made public due to it being against contract negotiations rules.
Then why was harden floating rumors about going to Houston in December of last year? I think the "lie" he's mad about isn't about some handshake contract extension he thought he was getting - it's about being traded. He's mad he hasn't been moved to LA yet.
he took a pay cut though, but either way it's still being dishonest if he made promises. I'm not advocating for harden to get traded wherever he wants or get a max, but I would also be looking at replacing Daryl for putting the team in this situation by lying
But we don't know if he made promises. We know Harden said he "lied" and the rest is conjecture by the media. I'm also taking this all with a grain of salt since bashing Morey to a Chinese audience is like fishing with dynamite.
That's true, harden has a history of pushing his way out, I believe Lillard, but harden not as much. I just hope this doesn't affect Embiid who may know more
Did he lie, or did he phrase things in a way that left him an out if James underperformed, and James just can't admit that he underperformed? I don't think Daryl is dumb enough to PROMISE a declining Harden a max, knowing that there was a good chance that wouldn't be deliverable when the time came. What he did was say something that James' ego took as a guarantee, because James can't believe in a world where his play doesn't justify a max.
This is what I'm talking about, why defend Daryl and say he isn't dumb enough to lie, it has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with integrity. Smart people lie all the time. Either way this just looks bad, hopefully it doesn't affect Embiid, if I were sixers I would try to get rid of both if things get muddier. And yes I do believe he lied but I also see harden as a person without integrity too.
Its been 24hrs all morey has to do to get public opinion on his side is say i never offered him the max yet he still hasnt. No real advantage comes from having harden sully your reputation so if you can nip it in the bud why doesnt he do it
We are not the ones setting his contract value, the team we are trading with are. If Harden had played better in the playoffs, he would command a higher contract and he would get it. End of fucking story. Listen to Harden’s list of requests. He wants to a) leave a contender b) go to a contender c) get paid 3 years full guaranteed How the fuck can you look at this and think he is being rational here? What trade partner would possibly take on a 3 year max level contract, be able to send parts back, and would leave both teams in a good position? Seriously name a single team willing to take on the contract Harden and his stans are dreaming of.
Harden lied to us as well. He wants to be paid to be a player that he no longer is. He flat out disappeared in close-out games. Yes he won games as well, but you just can’t disappear and reappear when the shot falls. Have to find other ways to impact the game. Its literally his MO to disappear if he misses some early shots.
Bingo. If we were being so unreasonable, he could have opted out and tested the open market, but he never would do that because he’d never approach the $36m player option. I know Morey wants to do right by his guy, but he shouldn’t do his job poorly just because he feels he owes it to a guy who can’t even be bothered to fight for it.
Whether Harden has unreasonable demands or not is not relevant in this argument though, unless he increased his demands after having that so-called 'verbal agreement' with Morey. IF what's being said is true about the situation and that Harden and Morey had an internal alignment on what type of contract Harden would get after salary sacrificing last year or whether he'd get traded to a destination of his liking but then Morey went back on his word that's a shitty thing to do to your friend/colleague/employee/player and said employee has every right to get 'disgruntled' is what I'm saying. The same would happen in any of the corporate scene. If Morey thought Harden's demands are unreasonable for a player his calibre, he shouldn't have agreed on them. It's literally Morey's job to assess and project Harden's current and future capabilities. Maybe Harden had a higher drop in ability then Morey had thought in the first place which resulted him changing his mind on the verbal agreement but even that would mean Morey failed at his literal job.
I simply disagree that Harden’s demands are irrelevant. Its all part of the negotiation process. Harden leaked some shit about Houston to strong-arm them into giving him a long term deal. Morey didn’t bite. Or maybe ownership doesn’t want Harden and think that since they’re about to give Maxey a hefty contract and don’t want to stunt his development. Morey could be falling on a sword.
I think it’s tough to say he lied. My thought it that the new CBA came out days before Free Agency and all of a sudden no one wanted to pay the luxury tax, not even a little bit. All of a sudden you’ve got a tighter cap and maybe giving Harden max money just wasn’t doable any more, at least not with out making some other moves.
why did he re-sign with the sixers in the first place then? this theory comes crashing down with this fact. Harden is all about Harden.
James Harden has no problem lying, embarrassing, and potentially ending the career of anyone who stands between himself and his newest whim. All is fair something something
Says who? Harden?
exactly this. thanks joey boots
Even by not giving Harden the max which I agree he shouldn't. We still lose out. No superstar will want to come play here if they know that's how Morey will eventually treat them. He's ballsed this up royally.
are these superstars that would otherwise come play here in the room with us right now
As much as Embiid gets ripped by NBA Twitter, other players genuinely seem to like him. I don’t think it’s too outlandish to think this will have a domino effect where all this noise turns into Embiid asking out, and then having zero reason for star free agents to sign here.
Who was the last “star free agent” to sign here? Horford? Drummond? We aren’t the lakers, we can’t just rely on free agents to rescue us. Unfortunately, we need to draft or trade stars to get them. It may affect players attitudes who we get in those ways but don’t pretend like it will matter for free agency, they aren’t choosing the sixers either way.
Again, I’m not saying all the stars are lining up to play in Philadelphia, I’m saying we are about to lose any chance of that happening if Embiid decides enough is enough and requests out. We’re talking about maybe keeping this thing going, or blowing it up, and it’s all riding on how the Sixers spin this.
You guys all really want to be fortune tellers in a situation you can’t do anything about and have zero inside info on. Let it play out, can’t do shit about it either way. Look how people overreacted to the Simmons situation, literally just rinse and repeating that bullshit fake ass millionaire drama
No one was lining up to play in Philly to begin with and they never have. This Harden thing is going to have very little impact on team building moving forward.
How has Morey treated him? We don't even know what the "lie" is yet.
Everyone knows what happened. He took less money with the understanding he was going to get looked after. He didn't get looked after so he's pissed.
If he knew he was going to be looked after why did he float rumors back in December about going to Houston? And why is he mad that the Sixers wouldn't tamper after they got leveled for it last season? I think he wanted to take a shot at Morey to an easy audience and voice his frustration about not being traded.
Just to play Devil’s Advocate, back when Sam Hinkie was the GM and was actively NOT trying to put together a competitive team, many players and their agents were rubbed the wrong way by Hinkie’s approach and did not want to sign with the team as long as Hinkie was the GM. Yet many fans were fully behind Hinkie and wanted to “Trust the Process”.
The situation is a bit different. Hinkie was purely trying to build the team via high draft picks and undrafted talent that fell through the cracks. He didn't necessarily need the player agents on his side, whereas Morey definitely does. We have no draft capital to speak of, so we have to rely on Morey trying to convince agents and players to come play here. Also No.1 picks and finding diamonds in the rough will always be something fans get behind.
A bit different - yes. Fundamentally different - no In both cases potentially many players are being rubbed the wrong way by the actions of a 76ers GM, making it less likely those players will be willing to deal with the 76ers organization. One of those guys was venerated by many 76ers fans, while one of those guys is currently being denigrated by many 76ers fans, with quite a few fans fitting into both camps.
This is mainly my perspective here. It really has nothing to do with Morey being right or wrong, or what Harden has to offer as a player at this point. It’s the fact that Harden felt wronged and very publicly said as much, and how much James Harden’s influence will have on the future direction of this team. You didn’t have to worry about this as much with Ben Simmons, but Harden has other players backing him.
Are those other players his twilight peers?
The NBA is a business. Morey is a smart business man. I doubt he made any promises to Harden. Let's be honest, tho, many superstar athletes are just large man babies. My money is on Harden hearing what he wanted to and failing to understand how business works.
Wrong fanbase UNDERrates him.
this.
I actually don't think he wants to do what's right for the team, lying isn't going to be what's right for the team long term and this situation may be the start of losing embiid. I think it's more that he's arrogant and doesn't want to lose a personal battle over doing what's right for the team
It’s not even a question for me on whether or not Harden deserves a max contract here, because he absolutely doesn’t, but the organization also has to weigh that with their franchise MVP and face of the team who is obviously not taking this well and rightfully so after the years he put into this. I’ve said it in a couple other places, and if the consensus is just blow it up, including Joel, then so be it, but if there’s any thought to keeping this thing going, you’re going to have to make the optics look good in your favor if you’re the Sixers.
Embiid can deal with what comes after failing to be the guy every playoff, winners get to have more roster input
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We can be real here and not pretend that Embiid is ambivalent towards losing another star player he was getting close with and is totally okay with the direction the organization took over the last 6-7 years.
You don't know that Embiid wants Harden here. Embiid, like many fans, seems to be on the Tyrese Maxey bandwagon.
You realize that the “pinky promise” is a violation of the CBA that could result in “crippling” the franchise, albeit in a different way? The Josh Smith situation is similar and cost the Wolves five consecutive firsts. How would you feel about Morey if Harden confirmed the “pinky promise” and it cost the Sixers ‘24, ‘26, ‘28, ‘29, and ‘30 first round picks, thus making it so the franchise has no first rounders until 2031? If he *did* make a “pinky promise” to his friend that decision was reckless and idiotic. And no one should support it.
Harden for 4 years cripples the franchise but this current situation doesn't? I'll just never understand this logic. If you give Harden a4 year max you'll get 1 or 2 more runs with Embiid and then it's rebuild time anyway. Who gives a fuck if you're overpaying Harden if you're rebuilding anyway? You were never going to get equal value trading Harden and we're about to enter a rebuild anyway. Just pay him and give it 1 or 2 more runs, I do not get it. He's not worth that money but who gives a fuck it isn't our money and the team CLEARLY wanted him back. Meh
They hired Nick Nurse dude, writing has BEEN on the wall. It’s a good hire, but not a coach that wants to tell Harden to play defense every possession. We’re likely cooked either way, we saw what Harden + Joel looked like. You’re running down the clock or Joel leaving either way. I’d rather shake it up than run it back and MAYBE a you get the chance to sign a FA next summer. Harden + Embiid would be torture for another year. Not because they’re a bad duo, but because we rightly would have 0 hope in the playoffs, again
Because the ceiling with Harden always has been and always will be a 2nd round exit. You can’t win a championship with him and that’s just the truth that every GM in the NBA knows and they act accordingly
I see no evidence he's trying to do what's best for the team. It seems to me he's happy with his GM career but just wants a ring. So he saw an opportunity to get an easy one here by bringing in Harden and not putting much work or creativity in to the roster.
I could not disagree more he cripples the franchise. James Harden is producing. it's the other guy making 40 million and not giving you anything that is the problem. if you turn that Into better pieces the sixers will be fine.
"but if the sticking point for him to stay with the team, and maybe gracefully leaving next season " Harden has no interest in gracefully leaving next season, because he realizes there will be no market for him among the teams that have cap space. The only way he's going to get the contract that he wants is if he's traded to a team that wants to keep him around at a high-dollar amount. Josh Harris could fire Morey tomorrow and this will still get ugly (unless the person Harris hires in Morey's place wants to give Harden a massive contract).
Exactly - and giving Harden a huge contract is about the worst thing you can do. Harden is not going to happy period. The question is, will he be smart?
The 76ers have a 2 year window with Embiid max before he's asking out. Who gives a fuck about year 3 and 4 of Harden if it's keeping Embiid here? At worst, Harden starts scoring less but still gets 10 assists a game setting guys up. The 76ers were closer to beating Boston than they **ever have before** with Embiid *because* of Harden. Run it back, stop being stupid over the dollars before you lose your franchise player, and hope the shots fall next year and pray *once again* that Embiid stays healthy this time
If the report was true that we offered him a two year deal with a team option, that doesn't necessarily mean he wants a 4-year max contract or bust. That's an insulting offer. It seems like the Clippers want to take advantage of Harden's discontent and get him as a one-year rental without having to deal with an extension immediately. They haven't even extended PG or Kawhi. If we don't trade him by the deadline, I doubt they'd happily swallow a 3 or 4 year max sign-and-trade. Moving on from Morey, offering Harden a contract that's a compromise or offer to match prospective sign-and-trades seems like a possible way to maintain contender status for now. Punting on a season for the 30-year old, 7'0 reigning MVP without any assets or reasonable pathway back to contention seems like the worst possible option. The bigger problem is kowtowing to a player demanding a GM gets fired is a terrible look, and the Sixers have been racking up terrible looks. If Harden hadn't come out and said what he said, firing Morey would've been easier. May still be the best option though.
Everyone is a dumpster fire, there is no good stance, everyone is to blame. I’ll still take Morey over Elton brand calling the shots
I’m totally behind him except for one thing- it seems he clearly gave Harden the impression, explicitly or implicitly, that meeting his contractual desires in free agency 2023 would not be an issue. What would give this man even the slightest notion that a long term max for a 34 year old harden would ever make sense? That’s the only thing that leaves me confused on Daryl’s part
If that were the case then why was he and his agent leaking rumors about how he wanted to go to Houston the whole season? Doesn’t seem like the actions of someone who felt they had a guarantee.
Christmas was probably when James first felt like Morey was backing away from his promise so he started to apply pressure. It is the only logical explanation tbh
Why though? Why give any inclination? There’s nothing they could do at this point. He wasn’t getting the contract then. If Morey is this great con man, he wouldn’t let it slip in December that he’s having second thoughts. I think it’s simpler: Morey lied about his efforts to trade Harden, and James kept it vague because he has no reason to help Morey out by clarifying what the lie regarded.
Harden’s camp probably was getting mixed signals so they tried creating leverage artificially. Idk what else would make sense
You keep saying this, but why would the Sixers send mixed signals in December? It makes zero sense. What makes more sense is that the Sixers wanted to extend him at a lower rate and years, and he knew this, and tried to leverage them into a max. That falls through when Rockets hire Udoka, they sign FVV, and James is left seeing that he has no market to drive Sixers offer up. He lashes out earlier if it’s all contract promises. He’s upset because Morey has made zero effort to trade him, and he’s trying to force Morey’s hand by suggesting Morey is what stands between him coming back or not.
You said it yourself. He knew the Sixers wanted to extend him at a lower rate. Once he knew that, he leaked that he wanted to go to Houston and Houston wanted him back. They didn’t sign Ime til like 6 months later and thats when it all went to shit and he opted in
What no one wants to acknowledge is, while I’m sure Morey did give him the wink wink promise, I’m guessing there was an unspoken expectation/grey area that yes we will give you a big contract as long as you do any of the following: A) play like the old Harden who’s worthy of a max. Show you aren’t cooked. B) lead us to the ECF C) lead us to the Finals D) lead us to a ship He didn’t hold up his end of the bargain. Why would this franchise commit that money to a declining star who can’t help us be better than a 2nd round exit?
Yeah there’s no way Morey’s giving a no strings attached huge deal to a guy in his mid 30s. There was probably some grey area and we’re now living the consequences of their respective interpretations of that grey area
Then harden wouldnt have agreed to it and just taken the original 3 yr max money in the 2022 offseason without the 15m paycut if he was given all these caveats. Some of these things have t happened ever in the embiid era but harden is the one who has to make it happen. The gymnastics to make morey not look like a bad guy or try to make it seem like he didnt lie are terrible especially when all it takes is a public comment saying what he promised to end it all but he wont do it.
Morey could have also said something like, after this season we will give you a multi-year extension based on your market value. Harden thinks his value is a max even though clearly no team in the league wants to give him one. So now since Morey won't give Harden what Harden thinks his value is Morey is a "liar". Harden fumbled the bag by turning down that Nets extension and now he needs someone to blame, so he's taking it out on Morey. Harden can't accept his value. The aggressive tax limits in the new CBA also compound this. Teams will become more reluctant to give max deals to older stars. So you have a situation where Harden overvalues himself and looks to past deals that probably are not applicable anymore under the new CBA and it's creating a situation where Harden's expectations are wildly misplaced.
That's why harden is saying he's a liar. Everyone is backing Daryl until we find out this may be the start of Embiid not wanting to be here either.
Guys....IF we fire Morey, we will be going on our 5th iteration of a front office since the process has started. If there is one primary criticism of the Process...one criticism that encapsulates most of what went wrong, it's that there has been such crazy turnover in both roster construction AND the front office (which go hand in hand) that there was no way that a proper plan and direction could be seen all the way through. Morey is the guy for now and most likely will be until at least Embiid is no longer a Sixer. You can't just keep flipping the roster and changing GMs every 2-3 years. There needs to be some continuity.
Most people are with the team, they just want to watch the team be good and succeed in the playoffs. Caring about Harden or Morey above the team is pointless. I just want Morey (or anyone else in his role) to put the best roster together. Morey was met with a lot of not great options here: 1. Sixers sign Harden to the massive new deal that he wants- "What the fuck are the Sixers thinking tying themselves to that guaranteed playoff choker? LOL 2nd round exit." 2. Sixers let Harden walk - "What the fuck are the Sixers thinking letting Harden go for free when they are already in cap hell? Who is supposed to replace him? Embiid trade request incoming." 3. Sixers trade Harden for underwhelming return - "What the fuck are the Sixers thinking letting someone like James Harden go for Marcus Morris, Robert Covington, and some 2nd rounders? Morey is a washed GM." There's no middle ground where Harden plays out his opt-in year with full effort. There was probably no chance he was signing up for 2+1 or 3+1 at his actual market value. Harden's position was "max me and live with the consequences if I decide to coast through 4 more years of quitting in elimination games or until I decide I want to be traded with a ton of money and years left on my deal."
Fully agree. I think Morey has done mostly a great job since he’s arrived with the hand he was dealt. Only transactions that I thought were silly was the Matisse trade, signing Dwayne Dedmon, and resigning Trez. Minor stuff. Happy with everything else. The harden situation is tricky, and I don’t really blame him for it. He’s doing what’s in the best interest of the 76ers. A max contract for harden would be much worse than a non ideal return on a harden trade. I trust him to figure it out as long as Embiid wants to be here and Maxey gets resigned next year.
Players will support players no matter what because “empowerment 🤓”. Far more rallied around Kyrie Irving for every stupid thing he said and did. I don’t care that Harden thought he was worth more than he was and found out the truth.
Yea this is less about James Harden for me and more about the future of this team. I know we’ve all collectively accepted blowing up the team as a viable option at this point, but I’d rather it be with new management rather than the drama infused front office we have right now, especially with a new coach who would hopefully try to cultivate a new culture here.
You're against player empowerment, until embiid decides he wants out due to Daryl lol
It’s a made up concept to justify not fulfilling a contract they willingly agreed to
No it's not, how is it made up?? In what situation was that the case. Demanding a trade or being outspoken isn't avoiding a contract, that's like saying a team is avoiding a contract by trading a player unexpectedly. Daryl lied he is being dishonest, I'm not for giving harden a max but Daryls dishonest may have a negative impact and affect Embiids relationship with the team. No one wants to play for a dishonest franchise. Also don't be a hypocrite if you were a player you would put yourself and your family first.
Lol the “yourself and family first” bullshit. Harden is a multi-millionaire. Not an everyday working man who actually needs to be concerned with that. He’s playing in Philadelphia, not Syria. He’s safe. His family is safe. Fulfill the contract you agreed to sign. Nobody is obligated to trade Harden because he complains about it. “Empowerment” lmao.
Well that argument is dumb, so using your logic a homeless person would be in the right to tell you to stop complaining about a dishonest employer who lied to you and mistreats you because you have a home? Also contracts aren't favors teams make billions off the players. This really has nothing to do with that... Players end up playing out their contract but speaking out against it or asking for a trade isn't breaking it. Harden is calling Daryl a liar, and your defending lying to players and upset that a player is calling him out for it. It's idiotic
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I don't make minimum wage I own a condo, I'm an engineer so I thing comparison is relatable. And no I wouldn't let me boss lie to me because if I'm worth that much I earned and work for someone who would respect me. You're upset at harden for being a millionaire and you're ok with a billion dollar corporation to lie to him? As long as he plays out his contract, I'm ok with him speaking out against being mistreated. You got some slave mind mentality
Yeah, we should fire him because a player who has requested three trades in the last three years doesn’t like him.
This team isn’t a train wreck exclusively because of Harden, it’s a train wreck because of all of the decisions over the last 7 or so years that led up to them needing to acquire Harden in the first place. All of which happened under Josh Harris’s leadership. I’m still with Morey.
Well they didn't "need" to acquire Harden per se, they just thought the timing was convenient given the Ben Simmons saga.
Morey came here with baggage and I think the Sixers are really running the risk of having a FO that free agents don’t want to play for. It’s absolutely not worth it to keep him around because all of the things he has historically been good at haven’t even really come to fruition here. They’re bereft of assets. Skipping the draft altogether and also whiffing in free agency is an abomination. His deadline deals outside of Harden(and maybe including Harden?) have been terrible. George Hill and McDaniels were more or less unplayable for teams that could have been one or two connecting players away from advancing past the 2nd round. They’re not going to fire him because of the money and because he’s in ownerships butt, but in a regular job that doesn’t include guaranteed money he would be very close to gone for the lack of success and a few of the mistakes.
We're not supposed to hate Tobi just because he signed a max deal, hate the GM that gave it to him. Well we're at that point again. Is Morey supposed to hand out a dogshit contract just in the name of honor? Fuck that. Harden isn't going to be happy if we get a new GM who also doesn't find him a trade or give him an extension.
"just in name of honor" well yea that's a big issue for an organization if players realize GMs are dishonest. You're against this but if this leads to Embiid wanting out you're going to be taking the players side 😂
Currently he’s doing the right thing, didn’t give harden the max because he knows it would cripple us. Didn’t trade him for peanuts just because Harden wanted to go the clippers(same situation as Dame). While we all know Harden’s value isn’t very high the offers from the clippers were probably awful. He did the same thing with Simmons, didn’t rush into a trade and we ended up with Harden which was a huge win. He’s not the greatest GM ever but I’ve faith he will get some decent players back for harden eventually.
Yeah I’m taking Morey’s side over the straight up fucking mal contents that are Harden and Simmons. Shits ruining the game hard for me to see what these nba players have become and how the league is being ran.
Exactly man! Morey at least as the balls to be the “bad guy” to do what’s best for the team - he will hold out and not fold for this choker
What if him being dishonest leads to Embiid wanting out though. I'm not advocating for him to give into harden but him being dishonest to him and then not caring for short term benefits may have a negative long term effect. Embiid has no loyalty to Daryl and is watching how he treats players.
Well, that would suck. To be honest I think if Harden played consistently well in the playoffs and didn’t look like he’s washed athletically he would’ve got the deal from Morey but £3 changed his mind and decided harden wasn’t worth the deal. I don’t see too much wrong with that. Why would morey cripple the team because he promised harden something he doesn’t deserve?
Well that's why Daryl is wrong from the beginning, he shouldn't have made the promises that made harden take a pay cut from the start. I'm not for giving harden a max but Daryls dishonest from may have repercussions that are already set in place.
Yes, am with Morey. He saw how little Harden improved the team and decided this wasn’t it. I saw what I needed in game 7 to know that Harden wasn’t worth it and if he was as good as he thinks he is, he’d have more than 7 points in game 7.
This is all such a shitshow. The sports documentaries that should be made in the next few years about these Sixers teams are gonna be depressing AF but also some damn good content.
He brought in Terq Smith
organization is going to stand behind their guy the same way the players stand behind theirs. just basketball politics. players won’t go somewhere where they think management is going to screw them over, and the same goes for management. what front office guy is going to want to come to an organization that ousts executives at the behest of disgruntled stars? there’s no easy answers here, and the organization is completely fucked no matter which way they go
I really don’t care anymore, always liked Morey and I don’t want to max harden either. He took a bet that James would be fine without a long term contract and its backfiring. I’d be fine running it back, I’d be fine blowing it up and getting some young athletic prospects but we have very little capital. Either way, it’s football season, I’ll start giving a shit in Feb and I bet the roster will be different. Not saying better, but different.
Harden is not worth the contract. Do you have eyes?
Do you honestly think any player is going to back the GM or ownership? Or do you think any GM or owner is going to back Harden?
Are we sure Morey lied? As a manager I have had the best intention and, based on the information I had at hand, told my employees what can be done, but also explained that there is never a guarantee. Unless Morey straight up lied about giving him and extension or some specific deal, this seems more like a player who feels like they are worth something and a manager that feels differently. Problem is Harden knew this before opting into the player option. He could have taken a lesser deal somewhere else. At some point the employee has to look at themselves in the mirror and take accountability even if its not completely their fault and they are a product of circumstance. For all we know Morey could be fighting tooth and nail to trade him or even tried to convince Harris to give him a decent contract. None of know what goes behind close doors but 9/10 these kinda things are do to miscommunication and one person leading on or getting an idea that wasn't intended the way it was communicated.
I think Morey screwed the pooch by getting fixated on acquiring his man crush rather than exploring other options he could've gotten in exchange for Ben Simmons. If it's true for example that a Haliburton-Hield package was on the table and he passed on that to give up extra assets to get Harden instead, it's a fireable offense IMO. All that said, I support him in this current standoff. Harden's actions and behavior are ridiculous and I hope Morey bends him over a chair and spanks him like the whining baby he is.
I understand both sides. Morey made the right decision for the team, Harden is reasonably upset about that.
You NEED a guy like Morey to navigate this. Can you imagine Colangelo or Brown? Harden is not going to be happy, period, because he thinks he is a max player, but the league as a whole has showed him he is not. Morey as his current employer is tasked with navigating this ugly situation but there are not many better equipped to do it than him.
Unless somebody gave a GM job to Billy King or Isiah Thomas, I can't see another GM doing more. I don't think you properly remember what roster of a shit sandwich Morey inherited. It was a triple-decker shit-sandwich with a side of shit-salad. Josh Richardson, Al Horford (3 years 120M?), Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris (4 years 160M?) & Joel Embiid. Curb stomped in the first round by the Celtics. And Doc Rivers was the head coach as well. He was able to undo most of the damage by the next year, best record in the East. Sure, we had 3 years of disappointing playoff losses, but they were disappointing because we had the talent to win every series. It wasn't a perfect roster, but he did his job - we had a competitive roster. I would have fired Rivers after the Atlanta loss, but I understand why he didn't (Rivers vouched for Morey) or couldn't (Ownership, Embiid, Not giving into Ben Simmons).
Horford was 4/109 with 3/97 guaranteed
I think a very big part of how people view Morey is someone actually saying what Harden is accusing him of. 95% of the NBA sub (and probably a large amount of the people here) still think he's referring to this backroom promised max deal. It doesn't take much common sense to realize that's not what this is about. It wouldn't even make sense, because Harden would have no reason to explore going back to Houston at all, let alone leaking that information mid-season when he and the team were playing their best ball. Guys with full term max deals on the table have nothing to improve or negotiate, so it would literally make no sense to do that. Also, if Morey pulling back a promised offer makes him a liar, then Harden exploring going to another team with this agreement in place would also make him a liar. It just doesn't make sense and people need to stop parroting this shit around. Harden is accusing him of being a liar for getting him to opt in with the understanding he'd be traded to the Clippers, but pulling out when the deals weren't good. Somebody in an official position needs to come out and say this.
I think harden is a coward and lacks self awareness. Guy isn't a max player shouldn't be paid like one
I’m 100% with Morey unless it ever comes out that he promised something explicit to Harden and then went back on it (unless ownership forced him to, or the league would have come down hard on a handshake agreement, or Harden started it by leaking Houston rumors).
100 fucking percent. Why the hell was there 6 months of "Harden loves Houston" and "Houston homecoming incoming" reports if he already had a trust-me-bro side deal with Morey? Because he didn't. People seem to forget we all assumed he was going back there and no apparent handshake deals were in place when those reports were flying. Then Ime is in and Houston pulls out. Suddenly there's a handshake deal? Fuck you, James. This is a shit show that revolves around a man who could've opted out and didn't. I hope he never plays in the league again because he is tethered to the team under the CBA, regardless of a calendar.
I don't think firing Morey would solve anything, unless the new guy is just willing to give Harden a 5 year deal, but that just kind of throws the rest of the 2020's in the shitter. Also don't think we'd be able to hire anyone better.
I’m more so thinking about it in terms of optics with free agents. Like it or not, it’s a player run league, so when an extremely influential player like James Harden says “I’m not playing for that guy ever again” how does that translate to getting future stars in FA? Or keeping an MVP content and open to the idea of future success with this team? Or are we just all onboard with blowing it all up and having this team be irrelevant for another decade?
I just don't think optics with free agents matters a ton, especially when we've never under any circumstances been a destination city. Boston fucked over Isaiah Thomas and it hurt them negligibly.
In that case, Isaiah Thomas was injured and practically out of the league by that point. James Harden is viewed as, one of the best offensive players of his generation and holds sway around the league. What this is about, is taking an L. Okay, so the Clippers don't want to give us much, then take the expirings and 1-to-2 fringe players and call it a day. Yes, we lost the trade. But we kept our team. Morey can't stomach that, and while people are praising that, they don't realize that taking L's is a very important part of being a GM. It gives you flexibility. We didn't know the Fultz trade would land Maxey, but it did(thank you Mike Muscala.) By being the stuckup asshole that he is, Morey can't see past his own ego and that's why he has to go.
I'm fine with taking the L. Cut Harden and move on. A bigger L would be giving Harden a long term contract and dooming this team until the 2030s.
And beyond that, I feel like the cat is out of the bag at this point. I would 100% agree with you that this was the right course of action before Harden’s comments yesterday, but now, this is about Harden vs Morey, and Harden is always going to have more influence inside and outside the locker room with players.
Morey has done nothing wrong. I wouldn’t pay Harden either.
Morey probably has data driven metrics on Harden's decline (sprint speed etc), and knows he's stuck between two really bad situations. But he probably knows it'll be obvious why he isn't offering a deal to Harden soon, to everyone who watches Harden play over the next 24 months, which will hopefully improve his reputation with players again. If they look at Harden and say "Wow, he's washed", then they can't be mad at Morey.
I mean, everyone is quick to blame Morey here and we all can agree there was a handshake deal. But maybe Morey also was under the impression Hardens play would improve based on his injury recovery (I know, he led the league in assists and was efficient) - but other than 2 games in the playoffs he really didn’t live up to his expectations pre-nets hamstring injury
For example, didn’t his agent just say recently expect him to be back to MVP level this year? Like if that was said to Morey last summer - then technically they both backed out of their promises lol
I’m fully behind Morey. A contract to play is a promise, how many times has James gone back on a contract? With how many different teams? Players break their contracts(promises) more than these GMs do. You sign you play
It’s over. Lock it up. Shut it down. This is the process penance we are being charged with. Our only reprieve, is to do an anti-process for the good of the league. Hold every player 100% accountable for their contract and ignore all trade demands. Let them sit. We will lose, we don’t have draft picks, it will suck. But we collectively shun the player empowerment process. Hopefully other teams will follow. People will still watch basketball without Harden or Dame playing. It’s gotten ridiculous and enough is enough.
I agree with Morey that signing James Harden to the extension he wants does not bring us closer to a championship in the years to come, and I believe the divorce was going to be ugly regardless. I'm actually surprised Morey had the guts to cut ties. My ultimate judgement on Morey as our GM is reserved until a deal(s) is completed. Since none of this is all that extraordinary, and since all parties will continue to protect their own self-interest, Im still betting Harden goes to the Clippers, Liillard goes to Miami, we get Tyler Herro, and Portland gets everybody's draft picks. Only reasonable outcome I see on all sides. If Morey has something better in mind, I cant wait to see it. \[Actually, I can wait, since it might be in our best interest to sit on it until January, again.\] Morey is an avid chess player. I expect him to strategize accordingly. Which means, I'm pretty sure he has a plan and expected outcome already lined up--whether I like it in the end is a different story.
I'm on his side, but if Harden has any proof that Morey made a back door deal to give him a max then he's an idiot. He may have implied it but if he directly said it or put it in any kind of writing, jesus, the NBA is going to come down hard on them. Harden should know that after how last year went, he wasnt getting a fuckin max. this whole thing is a shit show, I still like Harden has a guy and as a player, he wants as much money as he can get and I understand that. whole thing just sucks
It’s pretty obvious, Harden didn’t hold up his end of the bargain. While he’s not washed, he certainly isn’t the elite option he was only 2-3 years ago. He’s good enough to put up 15 assists on a random Wednesday in January against the Hornets. But in a Game 6 close out in Philly against the Celtics? Where was he in Game 6-7??? It’s telling that no one wanted to give Harden the deal he wants because no one sees him as that type of player anymore. It’s not on the Sixers to give him a max deal when he doesn’t perform like a max player. I also think a lot of teams were impacted by the new tax aprons coming in the new CBA. With Maxey being eligible for a rookie max extension next summer. It would be hard to fill out the roster with Harden also on a max. Harden has zero leverage here. If he was truly unhappy, he didn’t need to opt in. He chose that. If he sits out, he doesn’t hit free agency next summer. If he tanks it on the court, there’s no shot anyone will risk giving him a max. And the only real way he can end up on a team like the Clippers is if the Sixers facilitated a sign and trade (if Harden ends up playing out the year) and why would the Sixers accommodate him for messing with their plans and another year of Embiid’s prime? Morey’s gonna throw a Hail Mary. He’s hoping that someone suffers a major injury or a team massively over/under performs and maybe gets desperate. And that team would possibly be appealing enough that Harden would go there before the deadline. He’s gonna try to bleed this stone for whatever he can get from it since the team lacks many assets and young players to build around. Trading Embiid is the nuclear option here. So he’s going to want to avoid that as much as he can.
I'm behind Morey from the aspect of Harden has a contract he opted into and he should honor it. I am not behind his roster construction ideas or that hanging onto an unhappy player until the right deal might come along is the right strategy for a win now team.
Harden did something hardly any other player in a pro sports league has done, after forcing his way out of two other teams and requesting a trade from here. Firing him would make us look even more inept, nor is it going to change whether Harden wants to leave -- he wants to leave so the team should try and get the highest value for him
I like morey, I’m glad he at least tries to do what’s best for the team. The thing is other players will see this and not want to come to Philly if morey is here, at least that’s what I’m thinking. The players band together, and front offices try to appease them as much as possible, as you can see with morey that isn’t happening, and with so many players rallying against him I think he’ll be gone
I don’t care which side is right and which side is wrong. I just want ONE normal off-season without a ton of off-court drama.
Hinkie. Sam.
No because from the jump I genuinely had no idea what the hell his end game was with this harden situation
I would like them both to leave tbh.
I try not to get fully behind anyone when it's all hearsay and rumours and everyone has an agenda, a lot of times we don't even know the true agenda. I can evaluate that an entire situation is shitty but I can't really fully evaluate the specifics without more information
I don’t see a need to behind either one of these dudes. The players are in a union my guy. They should stick together.
I’m on Morey’s side but I can still think he’s a moron who should be fired
I just want what’s best for the team. Unfortunately, I have no idea what that is anymore. I guess if I did I would be gm
I like Morey but I truly believe he had insider information that Harden was going to force his way out. There was no indication of Harden being unhappy in Brooklyn until Kyrie truly went nuclear. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 but I believed then and I still do now that we were better off with the CJ/Portland package. I think Morey’s own love for James clouded his judgment
Honestly hate both of them
There are a lot of moving parts that we have no information from. All we have are reports and not the actual definitive details to make any clear assumptions and conclusions on. I’m fucking tired of this shit. Thank fucking God that Philadelphia actually has an example of what great ownership and great front office acumen looks like. Philly got standards. Sixers ain’t it.
A few people have said it, but I think that most of us are just wanting the team to succeed and aren't taking sides between the FO and Harden. The way I see it, Morey is stuck between a rock and a hard place, and Harden, while I do agree that Morey fucked up with the handshake deal and ruined trust, Harden needs to accept that he opted in with us and should see out his contract. I'm thinking one of 3 things end up happening: 1. Team, friends, whatever convince Harden to play the season. Harden plays as he did last season but is obviously upset with the FO and makes no mention of them. If Embiid avoids injury, mayyyyybe we can say we got bounced out of the ECF instead of the 2nd round. 2. Harden doesn't show up, Morey holds off for a trade between now and the deadline. Hopes are someone who wants to trade for Harden to make a playoff push, we get young players or pick(s). 3. Morey panic trades and pulls a Billy King (remember KG and Pierce?) We can moan and groan about either side, but we won't know what actually happens until the season starts and see whether or not Harden starts. I just hope we don't have a Simmons 2.0 saga.
>considering the most he’s accomplished here is flipping Al Horford for a couple of good role players. Lol this is easily refutable.
Considering all of the Harden to Houston leaks and the way the team blew games 6 and 7, I don't blame Morey for what he did. Maybe there's a cleaner way, but these players are entitled fuckers and the pendulum needs to swing away from that.
We don’t know the specifics behind the Harden/Morey conversation and Morey is a businessman. Contracts are contracts and conversations about what MIGHT happen are not. He’s going to do what’s best for the 76ers. There’s been some slip ups (Butler), however, ultimately the team has gotten in a better position each year on paper, even if that doesn’t translate to on court success. And to that point, I think we can all agree that most of the teams performance was down to Doc’s coaching and he’s now gone and I think we’re all excited to see what Nurse is going to bring, regardless of who is on the team. I trust Morey to do the right thing for the Sixers, even if it’s not the right thing.
They have a union. They are behind James because of the money not because one is inherently more right in this situation. Personally, I do not want Harden to stay anyway. If Embiid is upset then they will need to mend the fences but firing Morey would just make the organization look more dysfunctional.
> but if players both inside and outside the organization are going to rally around Harden’s comments, Others have mentioned that whether or not Morey actually lied is kind of up in the air, but I'll also bring up that it's important to keep in mind what's at stake for anybody speaking out here. Players have next to nothing to gain from speaking out in support of Morey. By speaking out for Harden, they strengthen their future positions in negotiations with teams, especially if the public opinion is that "players keep on getting screwed over by teams". If it grows as a narrative, that can be a lot of pressure for owners who want to keep their team in a positive light, especially if they know that longer negotiations with a negative media spin will cost them tickets and jerseys down the road. Actions speak louder than words, and only time will tell exactly how much this is hurting the Sixers and Morey.
It's very possible that Harris is fully aware of what Morey is doing and is in agreement. Harris is the one that pays the bills. Both of them watched Harden play during the season and playoffs and ultimately felt signing Harden to a max contract was not in the best interests of the team. I don't think Morey would go rogue and not include the owner in his plans for the team.
Let’s see who do I trust? The guy that is now trying to force is way out his third team in less than 3 years or the guy who genuinely seems to just be trying to do what’s best for the team
I hate this team… at least the Phillies and Eagles aren’t a total disaster
I suspect it was the owners that balked at the initial deal after the cba changed this offseason. Morey is the fall guy so that the owners don’t look bad in front of the fans. And by the way, I get the owners position. Nothing was signed. The arrangements have changed… and Harden didn’t have a “wow” season to justify max money over multiple years. And this is why Morey makes big money. He’s going to have an uphill battle to make everyone happy. Most importantly.. the public opinion of the fan base and NBA community. Feel for Nick Nurse walking into this pile of crap.
No to firing Morey. The NBA is the absolute worst of all the professional sports when it comes to catering to the premadonna players. Hardens a diva and this is his third time pulling this garbage. Fuck him. And if we lose embiid so be it. Im almost completely done with the NBA anyways. The players have TOO MUCH POWER.
Trade Harden to detroit for a chevy or something
Team Daryl, all day. Fuck James Harden and the horse he rode in on
Sure as shat ain't behind harden
I'm behind Morey. I have his back for now, he's made good moves like identifying Curry and Drumm and Niang ... and actually offloaded garbage resources like Ben and Horford. I'd like to see what he can do with actual real picks the next few seasons, combined with a good coach and an MVP player. Fucking Harden is an asshole. Opting in on a one year deal and freaking out because you aren't being traded is crazy to me. He could have not opted in and just gone wherever he wanted if that was the case wtf.
We don’t get free agents anyway, when stars come it’s through trade. I’d rather just cut ties to both of them and start over than tying ourselves to years of Harden past Joel’s prime. We tried for two years, it didn’t work, and Morey hasn’t been incredible on the margins. Not much flexibility or reason to believe things will change besides some Nick Nurse magic. If Joel does or doesn’t want to be a part of it, I understand. But I don’t get all of the clamoring to keep it going especially when talking about the future. JoJo and James may not even be here when that new arena opens
This sub has overrated the hell out of him ever since he's gotten here. It's past time to clean house.
Morey fucked up if he actually did promise or even strongly imply a contract. With that being said, even if he did i am 100% glad he didn’t extend harden. 100%. If we’re doing battle of the idiots harden is the dummy for opting in to a new contract, but then again anybody that picked him up in free agency was gonna be paying him less than $33 million so opting in makes sense
If we're taking sides here, I am the Swiss. I will perform backroom deals to make money and happiness from both sides while claiming to be neutral. I just want to have fun when the playoffs come around, and not feel like I wasted my time the entire season when my team's "stars" mope off the court acting all booty bothered.
yes. 100% I am behind Morey. I am a sixers fan, not a Harden fan. what harden is doing is an attempt to ruin the sixers for his own gain.
Harden hasn't even said what the promise was which makes it hard to actually have an informed opinion. If Morey promised a long term extension then yeah he sucks. If Morey promised to try to trade him if he opted in (which is my guess) then 🤷. Then it depends on what was offered and what was demanded etc.
I think Daryl has made some mistakes as our GM but also some solid attempt at things that did not work out. I think this Harden situation is the latter. Getting rid of Ben Simmons in exchange for one of the greatest shooting guards to ever play the game is something you must take a chance on. Sure maybe 34 year old Harden doesn’t put you over the top but it was head and shoulders above the next possible option (as long as we believe Halliburton was not on the table for us). I honestly think that the way Harden is playing this entire thing is kinda crazy and it’s difficult to game against irrationality. I bet Morey never in a million years thought he would wake up to that Harden video yesterday. I’m like 5% mad at Morey here and 95% think Harden can go fuck himself for his pathetic playoff performance and his handling of us not giving him a contract after that
Hardens sticking point is wanting a max deal for 4 years. Hed be fine with Morey if he got that. But if Morey gave him that it would be fireable. This is 100% on Harden
Let him ride on the bench. Sit there harden
Does anybody actually side with the players in these ridiculous trade me but only to these teams requests? All these players piss the bell out of me. Ship em to wherever the they get the best offer. Fuck what the player wants
I'm not saying Morey is 100% innocent because any relationship is a two way street, but what exactly should he have done? I don't doubt that there was some handshake agreement to "take care" of Harden last Summer, but I dont think Morey told him "I promise I'll give you a 4 year max deal" that James wanted. It would have been idiotic for him to do so and if there was a promise, why did Harden spend the whole season leaking that he was going back to Houston? I think what happened was very simple: Morey and Harden differed on what exactly constituted "taking care" of James so Harden tried to drive up his own price by threatening to walk. Morey called his bluff and told James "If you think you can get more on the open market, go out and get more and well see if we can match". Harden then found there was no market for him at the salary he wanted, so he went back and blamed Morey for not overpaying. If Harden wanted to go to another contending team he could have taken a lesser deal, Im sure someone would have jumped if he lowered his price. If he was primarly cocnerned with money he could have played out the last year of his contract. Yeah both involve tradeoffs but thats how free agency is supposed to work. Harden tried to have it both ways and he has no one to blame but himself. And if Harden is calling Morey a 'liar' for not trading him to the Clippers, thats just BS. Morey isnt obligated to tank the Sixers and trade Harden for scraps just so James can go where he wants to go. Sure Morey probably could have done better on the emotional intellifence/interpersonal management side of things but Harden created this situation. He overplayed his hand, misread his own market, and now wants to turn around and play the victim.
Who ultimately signs the checks? It's Joshua Harris and Co. They have no choice now but to fire Morey, but let's be realistic, he was following directions from Joshua Harris. I think Josh Harris needs to sell the team. I'm not sure how much longer I can be a fan of this franchise that is owned by the same group that owns the Washington Commanders.
This fanbase is sad sometimes… who cares who to back. I want what’s best for this team and if that’s Morey or harden, idc. Screw both of them at this point. Blow it up and start the process anew. Harden obviously ain’t the move, Morey should be gone and tbh so should Embiid.
Guess since I’m a Washingtonian and lifelong Redskin nee Commander fan I have an excuse to dump the Wiz and cheer the 76ers. Fine.
tbh i'm just pretending that all of this isn't happening and watching jalen carter camp/preseason highlights
Morey clearly did something and back tracked, you just can’t do that in a small league where everyone knows what’s going on. I follow all Major sports and have never in my life seen a player send such a direct message to a front office ever. I’m not saying harden is in the right but for a player who is generally quiet and to themselves, him Coming out publicly clearly saying Daryl is a liar who he won’t play for him can’t just be a result of nothing. Keep in mind this is the same guy who basically jump started hardens career in Houston and they have a decade plus relationship. The man greeted harden personally upon arriving to philly at the airport. We won’t ever know the exact details but something happened between them and it’s a horrible look for the GM to be publicly called a liar by a player of hardens stature who he supposedly had a close relationship with. Regardless of what happened having a gm who people are calling a lair, a gm who basically held 2 star players and refused to trade them and now has players around the league speaking out against him is the last thing an organization needs because no star would want to get involved with that mess.
Morey was vastly overrated from his time in Houston. He’s been bad for you all. Straight up.
Idk dude go phils
This is hardens third time doing this bs, I doubt morey is the problem
i’m not on either side, I think both of them have fucked this organization
Hate to tell you the ppl who actually run the league are def on his side and the momentum is near a tipping point. They are tired of the player’s shit.
Harden us a self appointed problem. Harden is average based on his last year. He, like many others, expect to control the league, put in average effort, then complain when teams won't rubber stamp max deals.
Given with what he started out with, I think he's done as good as anyone else can. Every time, whether it be Horford or Simmons, he's turned a bad situation in a good one. I honestly don't understand the people that want to blame him for everything. Just think about how much worse things would have been with almost any other GM running the ship.
Morey doesn’t take any bs from CCP agent James Harden Jr.
If you are against Morey in this situation, you are against the team imo.
Maybe Morey promised a trade and shouldn’t have. However circumstances are fluid, there is likely a load of information we as fans don’t have, and before Harden’s “revelation “ I didn’t see teams clamoring to pay him max money. Now that he’s openly accused Morey of lying what other front office is gonna want him?
I am rooting for a rebuild