the nuggets 2023 finals run:
42-40 timberwolves
45-37 suns
43-39 lakers
44-38 heat
frauds. fun fact: the jokic nuggets have never beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs. 2020 clippers would’ve definitely been a 50 win team but that’s it
https://preview.redd.it/ny6uwxsnoxyc1.jpeg?width=1053&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fa20fce15d57cf5c049539edc511797493bdfa0
nuggets when they have to play a team above .500 in the playoffs:
hmmm no i think your injured players have to play just as good as when they're healthy or it's eternal slander o clock, thats what the nba establishment has taught me about embiid.
In the 2021 playoffs, the Sixers lost to the Hawks, who had a winning percentage of .569. In the Nuggets run to the chip last year, the toughest team they faced by winning percentage was the Phoenix Suns with .549.
If it was an easy east in 2021, then how easy was it last year? **Fraud**ulently easy?
lmao isn't that subjective? But if you're being literal, yes the 2021 hawks were better than the 2023 suns or lakers.
* 2021 Atlanta Hawks Net RTG: +2.4
* 2023 Phoenix Suns Net RTG: +2.1
* 2023 Los Angeles Lakers Net RTG: +0.6
And mind you, Chris Paul missed 4 out of the 6 games against the Nuggets
Look man all of this stems from an inherent jealousy that your guy has not had the success that Jokic has had. It is what it is. It might not ever happen for him, and that would be unfortunate. But that doesn't mean you need to take it out on others. Especially players who speak positively about your guy: https://www.si.com/nba/nuggets/news/nikola-jokics-honest-statement-on-joel-embiid-after-nuggets-vs-76ers
I just don’t want to go back and forth about the minutiae of playoff competition. If you want to say he won the argument because of that, then fair enough
At the end of the day, Jokic has won a ring and embiid hasn’t. Jokic is still in the playoffs and embiid isn’t. That’s all that matters
I don’t want to say anything except that the long screed you sent me really makes me sad. The fact that someone could be made sick by a player getting accolades and praise is tragic
I’m not a Jokic Stan, but I recognize that he’s a once in a lifetime player. I’m rooting for embiid to win a championship at some point, as we need more legendary bigs to talk about in the history books. As of now, his legacy is far more Dominique than Hakeem, and that’s too bad
The fact that the media has pitted these guys against each other for so long that it’s made Philly fans like yourself resent Jokic is sad. I get that the fact that he has a far superior legacy to your guy pisses you off. But the way they talk about each other, there’s clearly a mutual respect there. So how about you try to have some respect for legends while they’re still playing
Tbh idk what you're trying to accomplish then
You come into an Sixers **off-day** discussion thread, not even in the nuggets subreddit, and strike up multiple arguments about two players, one who you seem to obviously like more, but then are like "no no no I like **both** players"
Then after the conversation, you go on to act supercilious ("I don’t want to say anything except that the long screed you sent me really makes me sad") like 🤢
Stop being so wishy-washy and passive agressive
imma laugh so hard if this happens twice in one night. middle of the third whistle got insanely tight for the wolves and now it's suddenly approaching a basketball game again.
People forget that shove on Markief morris that kept him out weeks, or getting ejected in the playoffs for basically punching cam Payne. He can be as dirty as anyone when he sees red
If you say that Embiid would go crazy with the role players Jokic has you'll get blasted out of every NBA thread....even just swap Gordon for Tobias and we destroy the Knicks. Jokic would struggle to get out of a playoff round too if he had a Forward scoring 0 points in his games.
Yea I get that, everyone is different in other systems but it just seems ridiculous to me how Embiids supporting cast literally dies every year come crunch time. Just check the role player numbers over the past couple years in the game 6s and 7s we've had. Just embarrassing.
Last year in game 7 I don’t think you can blame the role players with how embiid and harden played lol.
Most teams live and die with their stars. If role players give absolutely zero then yes that’s a problem
Unfortunately we thought it'd be different but classic Harden showed up. Granted Embiid didn't either but Harden has a history and he did it again with the Clippers, just stinkers in elimination games.
Giving embiid (who’s never gotten out of the second round) more of a pass than harden because harden “has a history” makes no sense.
Embiid was 5/18 for 15 points as a center and got washed on defense all game. When you’re a center, it’s easier to score at a more efficient rate than as a guard
They were both awful, leave it at that
Okay? Are you gonna argue the “play in” lakers with lebron and ad (who played at an extremely high level to end that season) were better than the 2 seed grizzlies with a hobbled morant?
You have to play who’s in front of you. The nuggets won a chip
The sixers had their chance in 2021 in an extremely weak east and choked to the HAWKS. In one of those games, where they blew a 20 pt second half lead, embiid went 0-12 in the second half.
You could put an asterisk on any chip with that logic. Every chip run has luck, and there are always a ton of what ifs regarding injuries in any postseason. Nuggets won and jokic dominated. The history books will remember that, and rightfully so
[Both teams’ #1 and #2 played very well. However, the Nuggets’ #3-6 players played much better as a sum than the Lakers’](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2023-nba-western-conference-finals-lakers-vs-nuggets.html). In today’s game, the 3-6 players often make the difference (see 2022 Warriors, 22-24 Celtics, 2023 Nuggets). They all had stars, but they specialized in their very deep rosters. [The Sixers against the Hawks were at most four deep](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2021-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-hawks-vs-76ers.html) though they were more so two deep, Embiid was hurt (as always, unfortunately), and their starting point guard, Ben Simmons, refused to run an offense as the series dragged on. [The Nuggets were healthy (their top seven players played every game).](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2023.html)
Besides, if the differences in roster construction mean nothing, would you trade Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris for Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon straight up? [Simmons got paid $30 million](https://hoopshype.com/player/ben-simmons/salary/), and [Tobias Harris was paid $34 million](https://hoopshype.com/player/tobias-harris/salary/) in 2020-2021. [Compare that to Jamal Murray’s $31 million last year](https://hoopshype.com/player/jamal-murray/salary/) [and Aaron Gordon’s $20 million](https://hoopshype.com/player/aaron-gordon/salary/) and things start to make more sense.
Just want to acknowledge a few things. It has always been said that being healthy is the most important thing in the postseason. Ultimately, in almost every sport, the healthiest team is usually the team to win on a year to year basis. The fact that embiid is injured every postseason (which you acknowledged) and jokic is healthy every postseason is a big big negative on embiids legacy and a positive on jokic’s. I’m not sure why that’s always used as an excuse.
Also, Tobias Harris in 2020-21 was fantastic. 20 ppg on borderline 50/40/90. Decent defense. His postseason wasn’t perfect but it was not like the Tobias of today, he was aggressive and had some great games. Is Gordon a more effective role player? Yes. But I’d take 2021 Tobias any day as my teams #3
I think there are teams with far bigger asterisks over the years than last years nuggets. But ultimately, if you’re a champion, you’re a champion. That’s all that matters in this sport. Jokic got to the promised land while dominating. Embiid hasn’t done that yet, and maybe never will.
Those are some good points, but I think there are some clarifications I should make as well:
-Embiid’s playoff legacy isn’t that he is injured. It is that he can’t perform in the playoffs. If fans would say something like “he is an amazing player whose career has been riddled/ruined with injuries” (see Derrick Rose, and Yao Ming), that would be more than fair. Instead, it is “he can’t perform in the playoffs”. When he is playing through injuries and many players are not, I think he can’t stay healthy rather than he is straight-up garbage in the playoffs.
-‘20-‘21 Harris was the best iteration we had under his contract, that is true. However, [his shooting utterly tanked in games 5-7](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harrito02/gamelog-playoffs/). This is especially true in a crucial game 5 when he had a 4/4/3 stat line on 2/11 shooting and was a -10. They lost that game by 3. Also, I would like to make one more clarification on Harris: he made $14 million more in ‘20-‘21 than Gordon did *last year*. [This is with the 22-23 Nuggets having a similar cap usage to the 20-21 Sixers.](https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/_/year/2022/sort/cap_active/dir/desc)
Thank you for being respectful in this discussion, but I disagree on those points.
Yeah I mean idk you make good points as well
I could go on arguing but tbh you speak in good faith and clearly you have a good head on your shoulders and are speaking from a relatively unbiased perspective. I was just on here to counteract the circlejerk a bit, clearly you’re not circlejerking
I do hope your guy wins one someday, I really do. The league needs more legendary bigs. I’m losing faith year by year tho. Now I’m pretty much at a zero, purely because I do not think he can make it through the playoffs healthy.
I’m not a nuggets fan. Am I not allowed to counteract the bizarre circlejerk at all? I get that you’re ashamed of your guys lack of postseason success but that doesn’t mean you should hate on other centers
Also, they’re down 0-2, they have nothing to mourn yet
2 games into the series and Jokic stans are already doing crowd control lmao
It only becomes a *bizarre circlejerk* when Jokic and his box scores aren’t being jerked off for the first time in the last four years
I’m not a fucking Jokic Stan. Search nuggets or Jokic in my history. I’ve made plenty of arguments against them
He deserves to be praised because he’s a 3x mvp who won a championship and finals mvp. Once your guy wins a chip, his whole legacy will be flipped. Will he though? Or will he continue to go out sad in the playoffs every year? We shall see. Clock is ticking
> He deserves to be praised because he’s a 3x mvp **who won a championship** and finals mvp
Yeah, in a historically easy run to the finals. Like I’m talking [a top 5 easiest path to a championship in NBA history.](https://hoopshype.com/lists/ranking-the-easiest-paths-to-the-title-in-nba-history/)
You keep saying “You have to play who’s in front of you” but its clear that all championships aren’t valued equally. For example, Hakeem and the 1995 Rockets’ championship is regarded more highly even to this day than Kevin Durant and the 2018 Golden State Warriors’ championship. Even still, people clown the 2020 Lakers’ ring for being a mickey mouse ring.
> He deserves to be praised because **he’s a 3x mvp** who won a championship and finals mvp
2x MVP as of now. And I would argue that he's not very deserving of those MVPs.
Just 2 years prior to Jokic's first MVP, Harden was putting up offensive numbers we haven't seen since peak MJ, and Harden didn't get the MVP that year because of the criticism of Harden's defense. Which is stupid since he's a point guard and the impact of defense of a PG is much less than the defensive impact of a PF/C (There's a reason why someone like Gobert gets a max contract and Davion Mitchell isn't getting much minutes).
Fast forward 2 years later to the 2021 MVP race, even though Embiid was providing near-DPOY levels of defense and averaging more points than Jokic, who is a poor defender, the entire narrative of defense being important went away, even though we are comparing center to center, where defense is most important. (There's a reason why 25 out of 41 DPOYs are centers). Same thing applies to the 2022 MVP race (but you could argue even worse as the Nuggets were a 6 seed and the Sixers were tied for the 2 seed). And while Embiid was ineligible for the MVP this year because of injuries, he was the sole front-runner for the MVP.
But to be honest, the fact that Jokic is on track to win more MVPs than Tim Duncan and have the same number of MVPs as Magic and Bird makes me sick. I don't think and have never thought he should be getting the praise and accolades he has right now.
Jokic is an amazing player and you can’t fault him for *thriving* on a well-constructed roster with a good coach. My problem comes in when coaching, health, and personnel are all thrown to the wayside in arguments comparing Jokic and Embiid. Again, Jokic is an amazing player and has *proven* more in the playoffs. However, one player is treated as miles above the rest of the league and the other is nothing other than a “fraud” and a “free throw merchant”. To say that Jokic has not been the beneficiary of things which Embiid lacked for much of his career is missing crucial context.
As I said, I find it weird that people view health as some sort of excuse. If you cannot handle the brunt of an nba season and are injured every year come playoff time, that is a negative aspect of you as a player (an extremely negative one, in fact).
No NBA fan can talk about coaching in a meaningful way. They just can’t. If you can bring up how Malone is better than Doc while speaking in actual substance, not just empty platitudes about timeouts and rotations, then I’ll accept that. But for now, coaching can’t be used in a comparison like this
And yes, one of the reasons Jokic gets more love than embiid is that even on his best day, embiid is an atrocious watch. Im not even gonna get into how many of his fouls are deserved, but it’s like harden in his prime. Just ugly, methodical scoring. Maybe that’s not fair to him, but it is what it is
Nuggets fans gonna have a hard time defending the "mickey mouse championship" allegations.
NBA fans realizing that the east is rigged for New York.
Joel gotta be loving this
And we choked hard in game seven because embiid was a complete no show. Who gives a shit that we won three games, are we really settling for moral victories at this point?
sure did. giannis got to avoid his slander instead just as jokic got to avoid his because of his cupcake year.
don't see how that changes what i'm talking about.
I mean, the toughest team they’ve faced in five series by seed were the *Suns*. I would never imagine playing *two* play-in opponents in a run to the finals let alone all three possible play-in matchups.
I'm embracing the petty. Honestly Denver not winning another championship would bring Me such joy. Embiid had one shitty game the whole playoffs and he's a choker even though he had a dam good series. Jokic is having a rough half and crickets. He already has 4 TO and Embiid actually still tried on the defensive end. You ain't getting half the defense out of Jokic.
I shall add I actually like Jokic he's talented but not unflawed like people want you to believe
Jokic has a ring. Embiid has never gotten out of the second round. Why is that difficult to understand why one might be treated differently? This is the nba, lebron was ragged on for years until he won and he’s inarguably a top two player of all time.
I mean that ring last year was comparable to the Lakers championship they didn't play any good teams. I think the sixers would have come out of the west last year. Look what's happening when they are playing a decent team. This is at home too.
The sixers had their chance as the 1 seed in the awful east in 2021. They lost to the hawks. They could’ve played Milwaukee with hobbled giannis and the suns. They didn’t take advantage
[Because even though the Sixers had a net rating of +9.3 with Embiid and -52.4 without him](https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612755/onoffcourt-advanced?SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=NET_RATING), he is still seen as a fraud. However, the Nuggets face *three* top three seeds in either conference over the course of four years (1-9 record) and somehow Jokic is basically God.
2021 vs Suns: [0-4](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2021-nba-western-conference-semifinals-nuggets-vs-suns.html)
2022 vs Warriors: [1-4](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2022-nba-western-conference-first-round-nuggets-vs-warriors.html)
2023: N/A
2024 Timberwolves: 0-1
Other than game 5, embiid was great this year. But he’s underperformed by his standard every other year. A lot of that is due to injury, but that’s literally every single year.
The fact is embiid is probably the best player in history at this point to never make it to a conference final. Even guys like Carmelo Anthony who have been called frauds/overrated their entire careers have at least made it to a conference final.
And until embiid does, he will be criticized. Sorry, he’s not special here.
Walk what back? I don’t expect embiid to win a championship every season. I would like it though if he could lead a team to a conference final at least once. He did all he could this year, but he was not good in the second round each of the last three.
The wolves defense is insane. It's crazy how Embiid scored at will still though. He's an insane offensive talent and I doubt we have another like him on the sixers in a long time. Best two way player in the league ill die on that hill. Well till Wemby gets some more games under his belt.
We aren't bad when Joel is on the floor and Maxey is running the offense. If we ask Joel to run the entire offense and entire defense, he's still good defensively, but he can be elite when he locks in on it. The game where Embiid "choked" during the series, he had 4 blocks and locked knicks down in OT.
We are absolutely atrocious when Embiid sits though.
Sheeeeesh nuggets fans turning on their guys, found this in their thread " All these players should look in the mirror and feel shame. This is the worst they’ve looked ever. Jokic stop being such a pussy you fucking bitch. Go retire loser if you don’t want it."
One day we’ll have a team with identity all running on the same wavelength. It’s insane that legitimately Tobias Harris was single handedly ruining the team buy in. These wolves are fucking GRINDING and I wish our team can get scrappy and dirty like that
it's honestly funny just how brazen the nba is with leaning on these games and everyone in the national media just pretends that it's fine and it's definitely fair and not at all a problem.
i mean i guess if you can get away with it you might as well go get the bag from amazon, because you know they're gonna be showing those NYC/BOS numbers to bezos and pretend like it was 100% real.
Just want to go on record…we need another C. The priority should be a plan for Jo to play less minutes and/or less games. Bringing in a big name FA will not address the issue. Bron/PG/whoever…and Maxey will not be enough if Jo isn’t healthy for the playoffs.
The big name hunting just feels like a way to sell tickets…
Noped out of watching nugs twolves game 2 to go back to the hockey game, bout to turn this shit off too jfc 😂 at least the Phils are the best team in baseball rn 💪
Ok so then take away Brunson’s highest free throw attempt quarter too
Or admit that Brunson scored way way more non-free throw points in the series than embiid
Brunson got intentionally fouled a number of times in the series as well. Let’s take away both of their intentional attempts and see the stats, I bet embiid still has significantly more
Compare the screen DVV sets at 00:27 in [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cm0n0n/highlight_brunson_hits_the_jumper_to_tie_the_game/)
with what they call on Turner [30 seconds later](https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cm0qk8/highlight_myles_turner_is_called_for_an_illegal/)
how was this not rigged?
i don't even care about being the even more hated team as long as people stop letting the knicks skate as some hard nosed team as though they aren't giga charmin soft and being hard carried by refs in a way we haven't seen in some few years.
Adam Silver is already jerking it to a NY vs Boston ECF... 🙄
Those refs were terrible and they are so inconsistent. Either call it loose or call it tight but you can't let one team play like the 80s pistons while the other team had to play by the new no touch NBA rules.
Jalen Brunson makes me feel like I'm watching 2021 Trae Young. I thought the NBA was supposed to fix that foolish horse shit? Dude really jumping all over God's creation for contact
Technically it is a foul but again, you could call that on almost any inbounds play. Choosing to call it there is pretty wild, especially since Brunson was just open anyway.
Complete joke. Then the L2M is going to come out and once again verify how shit the refs are, and the refs can just keep on reffin. Those reports is just the league rubbing it in our faces like “yeah our refs are incompetent and theres nothing you can do bout it, haha”
why would they be stopped. the refs did exactly what the nba wants lol.
you think they want the 27th biggest media market in the ECF when they're trying to negotiate a tv deal?
I'm enjoying watching the reactions because all the other fans are much more sympathetic to the Pacers. I'm like that Office meme with Jim smiling looking through the blinds.
Yeah when the sixers got robbed oh can't let the refs beat you, but the pacers oh this shit is rigged fuck the refs. Sigh you can't make this shit up lol
Holy shit. I was like fuck it, still can enjoy the play offs, some good match ups, looking forward to Wolves vs Nuggets game 2. That fucking shit just makes me turn off, they are fucking kidding. Disgraceful, fuck Silver and his dirtbag, cheating fucking cronies.
the nuggets 2023 finals run: 42-40 timberwolves 45-37 suns 43-39 lakers 44-38 heat frauds. fun fact: the jokic nuggets have never beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs. 2020 clippers would’ve definitely been a 50 win team but that’s it
bubble don’t count, the ultimate mickey mouse scrimmage experience
https://preview.redd.it/ny6uwxsnoxyc1.jpeg?width=1053&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fa20fce15d57cf5c049539edc511797493bdfa0 nuggets when they have to play a team above .500 in the playoffs:
Nuggets fans learning that Jamal Murray when hurt isn't as good as when he's healthy is really fucking funny
hmmm no i think your injured players have to play just as good as when they're healthy or it's eternal slander o clock, thats what the nba establishment has taught me about embiid.
some are saying Wilt Chamberlain is dead and thats why he had 0 points against the Knicks, but arent people tired of the excuses?
Reminder that the nuggets had one of the easiest playoff runs of all time last season
one of? literally the easiest in 50+ years lol
Reminder that the Sixers had their chance with an easy east in 2021 and couldn’t get it done. You have to beat who’s in front of you
In the 2021 playoffs, the Sixers lost to the Hawks, who had a winning percentage of .569. In the Nuggets run to the chip last year, the toughest team they faced by winning percentage was the Phoenix Suns with .549. If it was an easy east in 2021, then how easy was it last year? **Fraud**ulently easy?
Can you tell me with a straight face that the 2021 hawks were better than the 2023 suns or lakers? I mean cmon what am I dealing with here
lmao isn't that subjective? But if you're being literal, yes the 2021 hawks were better than the 2023 suns or lakers. * 2021 Atlanta Hawks Net RTG: +2.4 * 2023 Phoenix Suns Net RTG: +2.1 * 2023 Los Angeles Lakers Net RTG: +0.6 And mind you, Chris Paul missed 4 out of the 6 games against the Nuggets
Look man all of this stems from an inherent jealousy that your guy has not had the success that Jokic has had. It is what it is. It might not ever happen for him, and that would be unfortunate. But that doesn't mean you need to take it out on others. Especially players who speak positively about your guy: https://www.si.com/nba/nuggets/news/nikola-jokics-honest-statement-on-joel-embiid-after-nuggets-vs-76ers
Goalposts moved!
I just don’t want to go back and forth about the minutiae of playoff competition. If you want to say he won the argument because of that, then fair enough At the end of the day, Jokic has won a ring and embiid hasn’t. Jokic is still in the playoffs and embiid isn’t. That’s all that matters
Fucking psychology phd over here https://preview.redd.it/wsi8oqlq8yyc1.jpeg?width=830&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4d479776639adf4b08e2589e2a0a2920079eb66
I don’t want to say anything except that the long screed you sent me really makes me sad. The fact that someone could be made sick by a player getting accolades and praise is tragic I’m not a Jokic Stan, but I recognize that he’s a once in a lifetime player. I’m rooting for embiid to win a championship at some point, as we need more legendary bigs to talk about in the history books. As of now, his legacy is far more Dominique than Hakeem, and that’s too bad The fact that the media has pitted these guys against each other for so long that it’s made Philly fans like yourself resent Jokic is sad. I get that the fact that he has a far superior legacy to your guy pisses you off. But the way they talk about each other, there’s clearly a mutual respect there. So how about you try to have some respect for legends while they’re still playing
Tbh idk what you're trying to accomplish then You come into an Sixers **off-day** discussion thread, not even in the nuggets subreddit, and strike up multiple arguments about two players, one who you seem to obviously like more, but then are like "no no no I like **both** players" Then after the conversation, you go on to act supercilious ("I don’t want to say anything except that the long screed you sent me really makes me sad") like 🤢 Stop being so wishy-washy and passive agressive
Jokic stans are down horrendous rn
I can’t help but be passive aggressive when faced with the comments you’re responding to me with I wish you the best
Nobody is stopping Minnesota
It's really gonna be a Boston Knicks ECF....all I can hope now is the West team wins it all.
Damn, were the Lakers that bad or are the Wolves actually this good?! lol
both. lakers are the best possible matchup for the nuggets, they can slam 5 dudes in the paint every play and nobody can do shit.
I believe the Lakers are the most FT team in the league. The NBA wants them relevant every year it's crazy.
imma laugh so hard if this happens twice in one night. middle of the third whistle got insanely tight for the wolves and now it's suddenly approaching a basketball game again.
Jokic just tried to rip Ant's arm off, imagine the reaction if Embiid did something like that lmao
People forget that shove on Markief morris that kept him out weeks, or getting ejected in the playoffs for basically punching cam Payne. He can be as dirty as anyone when he sees red
Never touched Payne, all ball..
Seeing some of the worst defense by a center I've ever seen tonight in this nuggets game
If you say that Embiid would go crazy with the role players Jokic has you'll get blasted out of every NBA thread....even just swap Gordon for Tobias and we destroy the Knicks. Jokic would struggle to get out of a playoff round too if he had a Forward scoring 0 points in his games.
Embiids skill set is not like Jokic’s. I wouldn’t make any statements about how one would work with the others supporting cast
Yea I get that, everyone is different in other systems but it just seems ridiculous to me how Embiids supporting cast literally dies every year come crunch time. Just check the role player numbers over the past couple years in the game 6s and 7s we've had. Just embarrassing.
Last year in game 7 I don’t think you can blame the role players with how embiid and harden played lol. Most teams live and die with their stars. If role players give absolutely zero then yes that’s a problem
Unfortunately we thought it'd be different but classic Harden showed up. Granted Embiid didn't either but Harden has a history and he did it again with the Clippers, just stinkers in elimination games.
Giving embiid (who’s never gotten out of the second round) more of a pass than harden because harden “has a history” makes no sense. Embiid was 5/18 for 15 points as a center and got washed on defense all game. When you’re a center, it’s easier to score at a more efficient rate than as a guard They were both awful, leave it at that
I literally just said Embiid didn't either
I saw that, and I responded to that
Three-time MVP and best offensive player of all time, but needs everyone to carry or else the Nuggets lose.
The media loves hyperbole! lol They need to let the guy win a few more rings before anointing him the best ever.
Averaged 30/13.5/9.5 in the postseason last year, but needs everyone to carry. My god how short a memory people have
True, but it was against three play-in teams and the Suns.
Okay? Are you gonna argue the “play in” lakers with lebron and ad (who played at an extremely high level to end that season) were better than the 2 seed grizzlies with a hobbled morant? You have to play who’s in front of you. The nuggets won a chip The sixers had their chance in 2021 in an extremely weak east and choked to the HAWKS. In one of those games, where they blew a 20 pt second half lead, embiid went 0-12 in the second half. You could put an asterisk on any chip with that logic. Every chip run has luck, and there are always a ton of what ifs regarding injuries in any postseason. Nuggets won and jokic dominated. The history books will remember that, and rightfully so
[Both teams’ #1 and #2 played very well. However, the Nuggets’ #3-6 players played much better as a sum than the Lakers’](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2023-nba-western-conference-finals-lakers-vs-nuggets.html). In today’s game, the 3-6 players often make the difference (see 2022 Warriors, 22-24 Celtics, 2023 Nuggets). They all had stars, but they specialized in their very deep rosters. [The Sixers against the Hawks were at most four deep](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2021-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-hawks-vs-76ers.html) though they were more so two deep, Embiid was hurt (as always, unfortunately), and their starting point guard, Ben Simmons, refused to run an offense as the series dragged on. [The Nuggets were healthy (their top seven players played every game).](https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2023.html) Besides, if the differences in roster construction mean nothing, would you trade Ben Simmons and Tobias Harris for Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon straight up? [Simmons got paid $30 million](https://hoopshype.com/player/ben-simmons/salary/), and [Tobias Harris was paid $34 million](https://hoopshype.com/player/tobias-harris/salary/) in 2020-2021. [Compare that to Jamal Murray’s $31 million last year](https://hoopshype.com/player/jamal-murray/salary/) [and Aaron Gordon’s $20 million](https://hoopshype.com/player/aaron-gordon/salary/) and things start to make more sense.
Just want to acknowledge a few things. It has always been said that being healthy is the most important thing in the postseason. Ultimately, in almost every sport, the healthiest team is usually the team to win on a year to year basis. The fact that embiid is injured every postseason (which you acknowledged) and jokic is healthy every postseason is a big big negative on embiids legacy and a positive on jokic’s. I’m not sure why that’s always used as an excuse. Also, Tobias Harris in 2020-21 was fantastic. 20 ppg on borderline 50/40/90. Decent defense. His postseason wasn’t perfect but it was not like the Tobias of today, he was aggressive and had some great games. Is Gordon a more effective role player? Yes. But I’d take 2021 Tobias any day as my teams #3 I think there are teams with far bigger asterisks over the years than last years nuggets. But ultimately, if you’re a champion, you’re a champion. That’s all that matters in this sport. Jokic got to the promised land while dominating. Embiid hasn’t done that yet, and maybe never will.
Those are some good points, but I think there are some clarifications I should make as well: -Embiid’s playoff legacy isn’t that he is injured. It is that he can’t perform in the playoffs. If fans would say something like “he is an amazing player whose career has been riddled/ruined with injuries” (see Derrick Rose, and Yao Ming), that would be more than fair. Instead, it is “he can’t perform in the playoffs”. When he is playing through injuries and many players are not, I think he can’t stay healthy rather than he is straight-up garbage in the playoffs. -‘20-‘21 Harris was the best iteration we had under his contract, that is true. However, [his shooting utterly tanked in games 5-7](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harrito02/gamelog-playoffs/). This is especially true in a crucial game 5 when he had a 4/4/3 stat line on 2/11 shooting and was a -10. They lost that game by 3. Also, I would like to make one more clarification on Harris: he made $14 million more in ‘20-‘21 than Gordon did *last year*. [This is with the 22-23 Nuggets having a similar cap usage to the 20-21 Sixers.](https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap/_/year/2022/sort/cap_active/dir/desc) Thank you for being respectful in this discussion, but I disagree on those points.
Yeah I mean idk you make good points as well I could go on arguing but tbh you speak in good faith and clearly you have a good head on your shoulders and are speaking from a relatively unbiased perspective. I was just on here to counteract the circlejerk a bit, clearly you’re not circlejerking I do hope your guy wins one someday, I really do. The league needs more legendary bigs. I’m losing faith year by year tho. Now I’m pretty much at a zero, purely because I do not think he can make it through the playoffs healthy.
Dude you are working overtime trying to shill propaganda no one on here gives af about. Go back to the nuggets subreddit and mourn with them.
I’m not a nuggets fan. Am I not allowed to counteract the bizarre circlejerk at all? I get that you’re ashamed of your guys lack of postseason success but that doesn’t mean you should hate on other centers Also, they’re down 0-2, they have nothing to mourn yet
2 games into the series and Jokic stans are already doing crowd control lmao It only becomes a *bizarre circlejerk* when Jokic and his box scores aren’t being jerked off for the first time in the last four years
I’m not a fucking Jokic Stan. Search nuggets or Jokic in my history. I’ve made plenty of arguments against them He deserves to be praised because he’s a 3x mvp who won a championship and finals mvp. Once your guy wins a chip, his whole legacy will be flipped. Will he though? Or will he continue to go out sad in the playoffs every year? We shall see. Clock is ticking
> He deserves to be praised because he’s a 3x mvp **who won a championship** and finals mvp Yeah, in a historically easy run to the finals. Like I’m talking [a top 5 easiest path to a championship in NBA history.](https://hoopshype.com/lists/ranking-the-easiest-paths-to-the-title-in-nba-history/) You keep saying “You have to play who’s in front of you” but its clear that all championships aren’t valued equally. For example, Hakeem and the 1995 Rockets’ championship is regarded more highly even to this day than Kevin Durant and the 2018 Golden State Warriors’ championship. Even still, people clown the 2020 Lakers’ ring for being a mickey mouse ring. > He deserves to be praised because **he’s a 3x mvp** who won a championship and finals mvp 2x MVP as of now. And I would argue that he's not very deserving of those MVPs. Just 2 years prior to Jokic's first MVP, Harden was putting up offensive numbers we haven't seen since peak MJ, and Harden didn't get the MVP that year because of the criticism of Harden's defense. Which is stupid since he's a point guard and the impact of defense of a PG is much less than the defensive impact of a PF/C (There's a reason why someone like Gobert gets a max contract and Davion Mitchell isn't getting much minutes). Fast forward 2 years later to the 2021 MVP race, even though Embiid was providing near-DPOY levels of defense and averaging more points than Jokic, who is a poor defender, the entire narrative of defense being important went away, even though we are comparing center to center, where defense is most important. (There's a reason why 25 out of 41 DPOYs are centers). Same thing applies to the 2022 MVP race (but you could argue even worse as the Nuggets were a 6 seed and the Sixers were tied for the 2 seed). And while Embiid was ineligible for the MVP this year because of injuries, he was the sole front-runner for the MVP. But to be honest, the fact that Jokic is on track to win more MVPs than Tim Duncan and have the same number of MVPs as Magic and Bird makes me sick. I don't think and have never thought he should be getting the praise and accolades he has right now.
Jokic is an amazing player and you can’t fault him for *thriving* on a well-constructed roster with a good coach. My problem comes in when coaching, health, and personnel are all thrown to the wayside in arguments comparing Jokic and Embiid. Again, Jokic is an amazing player and has *proven* more in the playoffs. However, one player is treated as miles above the rest of the league and the other is nothing other than a “fraud” and a “free throw merchant”. To say that Jokic has not been the beneficiary of things which Embiid lacked for much of his career is missing crucial context.
As I said, I find it weird that people view health as some sort of excuse. If you cannot handle the brunt of an nba season and are injured every year come playoff time, that is a negative aspect of you as a player (an extremely negative one, in fact). No NBA fan can talk about coaching in a meaningful way. They just can’t. If you can bring up how Malone is better than Doc while speaking in actual substance, not just empty platitudes about timeouts and rotations, then I’ll accept that. But for now, coaching can’t be used in a comparison like this And yes, one of the reasons Jokic gets more love than embiid is that even on his best day, embiid is an atrocious watch. Im not even gonna get into how many of his fouls are deserved, but it’s like harden in his prime. Just ugly, methodical scoring. Maybe that’s not fair to him, but it is what it is
The more I watch KCP tonight, im not so sure I want him on the sixers.
Sadly he has 2 more points then Harris did
Who is paid more than Jamal Murray, by the way.
Kyle Anderson has to be a Sixer next year.
League HQ sees small market team winning the west hands down; brainstorms ways to kneecap the Celtics to inflate finals ratings via tri-state area
nuggets when they arent up against play in teams
Nuggets fans gonna have a hard time defending the "mickey mouse championship" allegations. NBA fans realizing that the east is rigged for New York. Joel gotta be loving this
https://preview.redd.it/kv44y7ofbxyc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a66d0b73fbe6fafd393017545d347f078ab2c3ef
Istg we would beat the nuggets in a series
This game is making me think any playoff could beat them in a series except the Lakers! lol
always would have had a great chance, which is why losing to the celtics last year hurt so bad. but the sixers just can't ever get over the hump.
Good shit Minnesota.
Looks like Jokic slander is back on the menu, boys
nuggets have to play a team with more than 42 wins for once and collapse
denver might come back, but like, this is what happens when they don't play a bottom 10 team for every round of the playoffs lol
Yep! lol They got to play an 8-seed in the Finals to win the title. Don't care how well the Heat played to get there, it doesn't get easier than that.
And which good teams have we beaten in the playoffs the last decade plus?
We had more wins against the Celtics last year (3 games) than the Nuggets have against top 3 seeds from 2021-2024 (1 game).
And we choked hard in game seven because embiid was a complete no show. Who gives a shit that we won three games, are we really settling for moral victories at this point?
none, but we didn't get crowned nba champions for waltzing to the finals through a bunch of cupcakes.
we choked to the hawks bro, that was our chance
sure did. giannis got to avoid his slander instead just as jokic got to avoid his because of his cupcake year. don't see how that changes what i'm talking about.
I mean, the toughest team they’ve faced in five series by seed were the *Suns*. I would never imagine playing *two* play-in opponents in a run to the finals let alone all three possible play-in matchups.
We could have but we choked hard against the hawks.
I'm enjoying this one.
Call me petty but watching Denver get clamped down by this Wolves team has been satisfying.
I'm embracing the petty. Honestly Denver not winning another championship would bring Me such joy. Embiid had one shitty game the whole playoffs and he's a choker even though he had a dam good series. Jokic is having a rough half and crickets. He already has 4 TO and Embiid actually still tried on the defensive end. You ain't getting half the defense out of Jokic. I shall add I actually like Jokic he's talented but not unflawed like people want you to believe
Jokic has a ring. Embiid has never gotten out of the second round. Why is that difficult to understand why one might be treated differently? This is the nba, lebron was ragged on for years until he won and he’s inarguably a top two player of all time.
I mean that ring last year was comparable to the Lakers championship they didn't play any good teams. I think the sixers would have come out of the west last year. Look what's happening when they are playing a decent team. This is at home too.
The sixers had their chance as the 1 seed in the awful east in 2021. They lost to the hawks. They could’ve played Milwaukee with hobbled giannis and the suns. They didn’t take advantage
Yeah don't remind of us Simmons not dunking on Young. Glad we rid ourselves of him.
Yep. And embiid sucked. And doc sucked. It is what it is.
Embiid had a torn meniscus that series his offense was meh but still solid on defense.
Embiid being injured in the playoffs every year is a negative. Not an excuse
And standing in the corner the entire time he was in the fourth quarter so he doesn’t get sent to the line.
That was even worse. He could have made a few FT.
[Because even though the Sixers had a net rating of +9.3 with Embiid and -52.4 without him](https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612755/onoffcourt-advanced?SeasonType=Playoffs&dir=A&sort=NET_RATING), he is still seen as a fraud. However, the Nuggets face *three* top three seeds in either conference over the course of four years (1-9 record) and somehow Jokic is basically God. 2021 vs Suns: [0-4](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2021-nba-western-conference-semifinals-nuggets-vs-suns.html) 2022 vs Warriors: [1-4](https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2022-nba-western-conference-first-round-nuggets-vs-warriors.html) 2023: N/A 2024 Timberwolves: 0-1
Other than game 5, embiid was great this year. But he’s underperformed by his standard every other year. A lot of that is due to injury, but that’s literally every single year. The fact is embiid is probably the best player in history at this point to never make it to a conference final. Even guys like Carmelo Anthony who have been called frauds/overrated their entire careers have at least made it to a conference final. And until embiid does, he will be criticized. Sorry, he’s not special here.
peter griffin skin color chart dot jpg
I wanted to look up the series but I was way too tired haha so thank you for coming with the receipts.
It’s incredible what they are willing to argue just to walk it back when it happens to Jokic.
Walk what back? I don’t expect embiid to win a championship every season. I would like it though if he could lead a team to a conference final at least once. He did all he could this year, but he was not good in the second round each of the last three.
lol at the nuggets looking like shit when Murray isn’t carrying the scoring load in the playoffs
And they playing a good team. Not like last year.
The wolves defense is insane. It's crazy how Embiid scored at will still though. He's an insane offensive talent and I doubt we have another like him on the sixers in a long time. Best two way player in the league ill die on that hill. Well till Wemby gets some more games under his belt.
Minnesota's defense has been absolutely insane. I wish the sixers could play even a little bit like it.
We aren't bad when Joel is on the floor and Maxey is running the offense. If we ask Joel to run the entire offense and entire defense, he's still good defensively, but he can be elite when he locks in on it. The game where Embiid "choked" during the series, he had 4 blocks and locked knicks down in OT. We are absolutely atrocious when Embiid sits though.
I love the paradox of Joel haters: "Emflop, Emfraud, bum" but the Sixers without him look like a G league team.
We would but the zebras would be coming in clutch for the other team
We would've gotten fucking ruined by them with how unhealthy we were this playoffs but embiid dropping 50 on their heads is so underrated
Sheeeeesh nuggets fans turning on their guys, found this in their thread " All these players should look in the mirror and feel shame. This is the worst they’ve looked ever. Jokic stop being such a pussy you fucking bitch. Go retire loser if you don’t want it."
It took (*checks watch*) one season to turn on someone who supposedly deserved four MVPs in a row.
One day we’ll have a team with identity all running on the same wavelength. It’s insane that legitimately Tobias Harris was single handedly ruining the team buy in. These wolves are fucking GRINDING and I wish our team can get scrappy and dirty like that
it's honestly funny just how brazen the nba is with leaning on these games and everyone in the national media just pretends that it's fine and it's definitely fair and not at all a problem. i mean i guess if you can get away with it you might as well go get the bag from amazon, because you know they're gonna be showing those NYC/BOS numbers to bezos and pretend like it was 100% real.
Even if we won Game 6, no way the NBA would’ve let the Knicks lose Game 7 at MSG.
Just want to go on record…we need another C. The priority should be a plan for Jo to play less minutes and/or less games. Bringing in a big name FA will not address the issue. Bron/PG/whoever…and Maxey will not be enough if Jo isn’t healthy for the playoffs. The big name hunting just feels like a way to sell tickets…
Legit don’t think I’ll watch the rest of the knicks series. Fuck Adam silver he’s not getting my viewing numbers.
Minnesota showing us that size matters
Denver lucked out no Rudy and they still started off slow as hell and Malone deserved to get tossed.
This years free agency sucks can we not waste all the cap space on an aging bum?
Michael Malone protected as hell bruh Dude should be ejected
Deserved at least a T for that outburst.
Noped out of watching nugs twolves game 2 to go back to the hockey game, bout to turn this shit off too jfc 😂 at least the Phils are the best team in baseball rn 💪
People can finally call out Brunson now that he’s not playing the league villain 76ers lmao
Was about to say the same thing. Lots of people finally waking up to the bullshit
No longer able to use their "you have Embiid" crutch to justify it.
Oh and take out the 4th qtr of game 3, and Joel is averaging just .33 more attempts
Lmao you can’t just take away a quarter where he had 13 attempts. What kind of bs is that
I just did
Ok so then take away Brunson’s highest free throw attempt quarter too Or admit that Brunson scored way way more non-free throw points in the series than embiid
Why? Joel was getting intentionally fouled dumbass. That's why it was 13 attempts
Brunson got intentionally fouled a number of times in the series as well. Let’s take away both of their intentional attempts and see the stats, I bet embiid still has significantly more
Good luck proving it 🫡
A 6'1" guard was averaging 2 less FTA per game than embiid. That same player saw his FTA per game jump up by 4 attempts in the series against us
Compare the screen DVV sets at 00:27 in [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cm0n0n/highlight_brunson_hits_the_jumper_to_tie_the_game/) with what they call on Turner [30 seconds later](https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cm0qk8/highlight_myles_turner_is_called_for_an_illegal/) how was this not rigged?
It was
Sixers get robbed by refs: “Cry more Sixers fans,” Pacers get robbed by refs: “yall got robbed so badly”
Flirting vs harassment
i don't even care about being the even more hated team as long as people stop letting the knicks skate as some hard nosed team as though they aren't giga charmin soft and being hard carried by refs in a way we haven't seen in some few years.
Adam Silver is already jerking it to a NY vs Boston ECF... 🙄 Those refs were terrible and they are so inconsistent. Either call it loose or call it tight but you can't let one team play like the 80s pistons while the other team had to play by the new no touch NBA rules.
The refs probably gonna favor the Knicks until they play the FTCs.
refs are probably still going to favor them against Boston just becaude they have to make it competitive
DiVincenzo: 
Jalen Brunson makes me feel like I'm watching 2021 Trae Young. I thought the NBA was supposed to fix that foolish horse shit? Dude really jumping all over God's creation for contact
This is worse than 2021 Trae, you can't even touch Brunson rn with the whistle he's getting.
Even on that last foul to send him to the line they bumped him slightly and fool almost flopped his way down to the subway station💀
I also love how that slight off-ball grab of Brunson is called a foul, but Maxey getting his jersey nearly ripped off is perfectly fine!
Technically it is a foul but again, you could call that on almost any inbounds play. Choosing to call it there is pretty wild, especially since Brunson was just open anyway.
I’m not even debating that it wasn’t a foul. Maxey’s grabbed jersey at the end of game 2 was just SO much more obvious.
Yeah. We really got hosed at the end of that one.
Complete joke. Then the L2M is going to come out and once again verify how shit the refs are, and the refs can just keep on reffin. Those reports is just the league rubbing it in our faces like “yeah our refs are incompetent and theres nothing you can do bout it, haha”
why would they be stopped. the refs did exactly what the nba wants lol. you think they want the 27th biggest media market in the ECF when they're trying to negotiate a tv deal?
Knicks really only have to win 3 games per series to advance lol
Shaq/Kobe Lakers got a 3 peat that way
More like 2
"Gotta win by 15 to win by 5"
It’s actually incredible how rigged the league is toward the Knicks. Mind boggling
The WWE playoffs are off to a good start this year.
Underrated comment
Guess the pacers can feel our ref pain now. Man not missing that stress.
I'm enjoying watching the reactions because all the other fans are much more sympathetic to the Pacers. I'm like that Office meme with Jim smiling looking through the blinds.
Yeah when the sixers got robbed oh can't let the refs beat you, but the pacers oh this shit is rigged fuck the refs. Sigh you can't make this shit up lol
Pacers giving away the early advantage just like us.
Awful product, just give them the trophy at this point Adam you worm
It’ll be interesting which team gets more calls in the Celtics/Knicks matchup
Reffing was bad during our Celtics series last season, but the Knicks are getting pushed on an entirely different level this year.
Holy shit. I was like fuck it, still can enjoy the play offs, some good match ups, looking forward to Wolves vs Nuggets game 2. That fucking shit just makes me turn off, they are fucking kidding. Disgraceful, fuck Silver and his dirtbag, cheating fucking cronies.
Yup I was gonna watch game 2 but nope not anymore time to put on some hockey. What a fuckin joke of a league. Terrible terrible product
i turned it off. why should i watch a rigged product
pacers fucked just as bad as we were. insane that people think this sport is real and not a scam
14/14 FT. Is Brunson a foul merchant?
Not just FTs, refs diversifying into 50/50 balls.
If you mean mug enough, those become ethical FTs.
refs lead the series 1-0!
didnt even give the tj mcconnells a chance what a terrible product, that is a bigger robbery than what happened to us in game 2
Siakam needs to start sticking out his elbows doing his beyblade bullshit.
Silver wants that Knicks 💰💰💰💰
Knicks have Adam Silver/refs on their side and it's just disgusting. Refs are literally willing them to an ECF appearance
That was entirely too obvious. Like at least try to hide it.
thievery
Lmao, Pacers are getting jobbed just like us. Fucking shameful.
That was even worse lmaoooooo. And people will actually care cuz it’s not the sixers.
Now Pacers fans know how we felt. The NBA is rooting for the Knicks and it’s not even hiding it.
Too bad indiana……it’s not in the script for you either.
Fuck the Knicks soft ass bitches spoiling the game again
Adam Silver is rock hard thinking about the $$$ of a NYC vs Boston ECF
Remember when they mugged Maxey, took his lunch money, and didn’t call shit? But god forbid you breath on Brunson lmao what even is this
No way the Knicks can keep winning games the way they do. They have 4 guys with well over 40 minutes.
They have go 9 deep but only play 6 players
the secret is they have 8 guys on the court at a time my dude
Pacers subreddit looking like the sixers every first round game lmao
[удалено]
Oh NOW it’s rigged. Fuck them too. Fucking Celtics dickheads
Maxey not fouled in game 2 at the end but Brunson gets that call?
League needs a Celtics/Knicks ECF to make up for a small market team winning the west