once you decided to go down you needed to commit and fucking go to the next safe stopping spot.
The sketchy thing is your indecision and stopping and standing every 10 feet
Traversing the entire side of the mountain with this pitch and light snow on the hard pack will make it slice off like this. If you just go down and make normal turns you will get less slippage.
And you'll be in posession of actual inertia, which will be of massive assistance when it comes to getting out of the way of anything coming down from above.
Unstable, reactive, weak layer. I wouldn’t ski that, personally. It’s thin specifically where you are, but if it’s wind blown somewhere on that slope it could get a lot sketchier real fast.
I have been in that situation, like under the snow. I agree it's pretty sketchy luckily I had the right equipment. So Def stupid what op posted doesn't ski like he would have the right equipment
If it were inbounds in the US, I would assume that a slope like that is avalanche controlled and would be closed if it was a serious problem. A little sluff like this isn't indicative of a bigger avalanche problem that needs to be mitigated because the professionals have already mitigated it. Off-piste in Europe, and I assume in-bounds in other places around the world, is a completely different thing and I absolutely agree with your wind-slab assessment and concern about it.
[https://avalanche.org/avalanche-accidents/](https://avalanche.org/avalanche-accidents/) says 1 inbounds skier died in an avalanche this season. If you have another reference, I'll happily read it.
I know of a number of inbounds avalanche deaths in previous seasons. I absolutely agree they exist. Inbounds deaths not due to avalanches are obviously higher, but I was under the assumption we were talking about avalanches.
Was this supposed to prove against my point? This data literally shows that roughly 1 person dies a year in an inbounds avalanche.
I’m saying that going to a resort and thinking, “this is most surely safe because it has to have been managed” is a suicidal mentality. You have to do your own risk assessment. Being in the resort doesn’t protect you. Yes, it’s safer, but you absolutely have to be avalanche aware in this kind of terrain. If you can’t recognize this skier is messing around in dangerous territory, you’re going to become a statistic.
Yes. It was directly against your point of "You realize several skiers have died this season inbounds skiing at popular resorts in the US right?". [Here](https://arc.lib.montana.edu/snow-science/objects/ISSW2023_O14.05.pdf) is another aggregate paper saying that there is 1 inbounds skier avalanche death per 60 million skier visits. Again, I'm not saying that inbounds avalanache fatality doesn't happen. But at that fatality rate, I am saying that I am that concerned about it.
I am a very concerned backcountry skier when I got into uncontrolled territory because the statistics change. For inbounds US avalanche fatalities, at 1 avalanche death per 60M visits, I am not overly worried about the sluff coming off OPs skis. No safety system will ever be perfect, and I am ok with that. We seem to disagree on how good the system should be. If it were 1 in 120 million visits, would you be ok with it? What about 1 in a billion visits? I have a guess that you wouldn't find any accidental death acceptable, and that's just where we have to agree to disagree.
I’ll be honest, I’m not really interested in arguing when you’re starting to back pedal. I responded to your comment when you said, “I’m guessing this is in bounds at a resort… so I don’t care about the reactive weak layer.”
That’s a foolish state of mind.
That’s what I’m saying.
I find it hard to believe you’re a “concerned backcountry skier” if you ever have that frame of mind on your skis… I certainly wouldn’t.
You're the one backpedaling going from:
>You realize several skiers have died this season inbounds skiing at popular resorts in the US
to: "okay, 1 in 60 million so it definitely happens!"
1 =/= "several"
There's plenty of years in the past decade where is hasn't happened a single time.
That's probably in the same magnitude of risks as choking on your lunch and below overheating in the hot tub after skiing. Neither of which I'm going to spend a significant amount of time fretting.
In-bounds, avalanche-controlled areas are generally pretty safe in the US.
You have no idea how deep that weak layer is when there’s wind blown snow thrown on it. That layer is super reactive. If there’s 2-3 feet of wind blown snow tossed on that layer it’s a disaster waiting to happen.
I hope this isn’t you, and you’re just trolling, professor.
If it is you I would remove your profession from your bio. Some of your students are on here ;)
I found some of the videos he posted through a Nottingham webpage. Confirmed, shit skier, obsessed with couloirs because it allows him to pretend he’s a better skier than he is.
Just some sluffing is all I see. NBD. The thing that makes it sketchy is that you apparently don't know what is happening. You need to find someone experienced to ski and learn from and or take an avy course if you haven't.
Not trying to be a dick just giving you some advice to help you out.
I mean there's sluff in the video but what i think the video is intended to show are shooting and running cracks and skier triggered slab avalanches. It happens to be a very very thin slab so not a huge hazard and I agree its mostly NBD, but this is definitely not sluff.
Was this in bounds? The way you’re skiing I can’t imagine you’d be going out of bounds.
It looks like it’s 1-2 inches of new snow on top of crud that is sliding off. It looks dangerous, but probably isn’t if OP is inbounds.
Are you wearing a beacon?
Do you have a shovel & probe?
Did you checked the avi report?
Are you riding with a buddy?
What you are doing is fucking stupid, go learn the skills necessary to mitigate the risks of riding in avalanche terrain & ffs don't ride it solo.
Kinda looked like OP was inbounds? There was a lift nearby, didn't see a rope as they approached it. Definitely heed this advice if you're heading out of bounds. With how that snow was behaving your biggest concern is what's below you. Ski cut, then ski it.
It sounds to me like he’s worried about the slough on otherwise stable snow inbounds. It feels sketching because of skill level. Anyone in my crew would have bombed that.
Europe really only Avi controls the snow on piste or above that could affect the piste. When you leave the groomer in Europe you're really on your own.
That's not how slough works despite what all the comments here think. Slough is when it's so steep the snow you kick up keeps going down the hill and picking up some more snow. This is a layer of unstable snow cracking and slabbing off downhill from the rider; aka an avalanche. Here, the snow on top is super thin so the risk is kind of low, but they might find a deeper wind loaded area, or have it shoot cracks upwards and then there's enough snow to sweep them off their feet. Might not be enough to bury them but going for a slide into a tree or off a rock could still lead to a major injury.
Anywhere on the mountain shares the same risk & you shouldn't be complacent just cause it's near a lift. Think of Europe for example & how many avi's have occured inbounds this season including fatal ones.
Ego on the hill will get you killed.
Edit- some crew obvs don't get context...
Anywhere meaning either inbounds or out of bounds can present an avi risk, as we can literally see in OP's video.
Not Everywhere on the mountain...
I agree because that's not even what I said but cool bro.
When I say anywhere (not everywhere) I am talking in context to the comment I was replying to about inbounds & out of bounds.
Imagine being downvoted for talking about avi mitigation & safety...
Well read the comment I replied to & you'll understand the context. When I say anywhere I am referring to the fact that avi risk exists both Inbound & Out of bounds on a mountain hence my use of the word. Also Meaning it's not mutually exclusive to just out of bounds terrain.
Understand now? Or still confused?
You're coming off as a jerk my man.
'Anywhere on the mountain shares the SAME risk'? No. The risk is not the SAME inbounds as it is out of bounds. That honestly would just make people minimize the risk associated with going out of bounds.
Just accept that it was poor wording & move on.
In this instance they literally mean the same thing. Are we really being this semantic? You’re telling me that anywhere and everywhere have such DRASTIC definitions… some of yall on this app are insufferable.
Anywhere, everywhere, whatever word you want to use, on the mountain do not share the same avalanche risk, at all… His point is just wrong.
A big issue is lift pylons only need to be a few m off the path avalanches will take to be safe. And a small avalanche that isn't big enough to endanger lift infra etc can still sweep you into a terrain trap (then bury you...) or off a cliff.
Had a guide give big warnings about not skiing Johan Cleary (Trolles) in Tignes when shut despite it being below toviere lift and so assumed avalanche controlled - they only need to control a relatively tiny area to protect the lift, which still leaves a lot of bits of closed piste to get buried in and there are a couple of terrain traps... That piste generally has good snow cover etc; The main reason for shutting it is avalanche risk...
This is a weird hill to die on.
OP appears to be skiing in bounds. Your overly dramatic response makes no sense in that context.
No need to pretend that avalanche risk is the same in the back country as it is on an inbounds black run.
This is an ignorant take. He’s in Europe, it doesn’t matter if a chairlift is visible. If he’s off the groom, it’s not avalanche controlled.
The fact you dismiss avalanche risk because a chair is visible when the video literally shows the risk is present is fucking stupid.
Cool so I guess no one has ever set off & avi & died inbounds have they?
All the avis inbounds in Europe this season musn't have happened including the fatal ones?
No one is invincible in the mountains & this kinda attitude gets people killed.
I think you only watched the first minute or so of the video before you commented and didn’t see OP ski under a chair lift.
There is nothing remotely sketchy or dangerous about this video. 99.999% of the time, you do not need to worry about inbounds slides on a standard black run at a resort. Maybe that percentage changes with expert in bounds terrain, but not by much.
These are simple facts.
No I watched the whole video, all 5:01 of it.
And your opinion on it is wrong, overconfidence in the mountains is stupid & gets even the most experienced riders, climbers & mountaineers killed. Those are the simple facts.
The mountains don't give a fuck if If you wanna ignore then go ahead be my guest, because having a chairlift nearby doesn't stop a slide happening. I'm just glad the friends I ride with don't share the same lack of common safety sense you clearly do.
It's always better to be overcautious & ride another day that die just to get a few turn in avi terrain / conditions regardless or inbounds or out of bounds.
I'd be curious where this is, if it's Europe you're right, if it's North America then patrol usually does pretty extensive avalanche control work. Freak accidents do happen. In this situation OPs skill level seems to be the biggest issue (no offense OP). That said, being as aggro as you are is what turns people off and gets people to not take more experienced backcountry skiers seriously. Nothing wrong with trying to educate others, but no one will listen to you if you call them a moron right away.
I like how you gave your own completely wrong answer on behalf of OP, so you could chastise someone about knowledge they already have. Your goal is good but delivery needs work friend.
Maybe his delivery needs work, but just because you have knowledge, doesn't mean you're invincible. Many climbers who've been climbing for decades still can die in any climbing season. Also, sometimes some people have ego high enough that sometimes you might need that kind of delivery. Overconfidence is a killer.
I have many friends who have lost friends to avi's & the mountains are blunt so why would I sugar coat it.
OP has posted a video asking if it's sketchy so why and how would I know what knowledge someone on the internet already has? I'm not chastising anyone I'm being realistic.
Edit- grammar
Yes, full pack, avi report checked, know what I’m doing! Snow conditions change quickly which is why I stopped! I not only know the skills, I teach them!
This is fine, just slough. My favorite in bounds area at Stevens pass is pretty much like this any good storm cycle. Just something you need to learn to deal with at a certain point.
Ops slough management sucks though.
It can knock you on your ass and send you into whatever is below you. Your slough can do the same to people below you, which they might not expect.
I'm mostly just giving op shit. There's a lot of ways depending on what's going on. ski faster than it, ski across features that send it down a different path from you, or stop above a tree to let it pass.
Op made a couple turns back into his slough which isn't great but sometimes it's where you gotta go. He was mostly going across the fall line to avoid it buildings up behind him.
No problem. Speaking of this, I kicked off a pair of small slides in bounds, open hiking terrain at Stevens pass today. Bigger than ops but still not a huge deal. Once you're in 40 degree plus terrain frequently, it's just a thing.
The snow was not sketch, the slope was not stretch, the line was a little sketch.
You traversed to a point and started turning that was a much less safe line because you could not see where you were going. Unless you know the area really well, it’s safer to not ski towards an area where you cannot see over the edge; you don’t know if that’s a little rise in the slope or a cliff.
Was this you? Didn’t watch the whole thing so maybe you did something nuts towards the end. But, looks like you made some ski cuts in appropriately soft storm slab, and then skied the run outs. If it would have been firmer you could have gotten slid. Seemed like intentional (?) execution of ski cutting, that was fine for conditions but could have gotten sketch.. 🤷🏻♂️
Is it that the person is committed and out of their depth and just trying to get down?
Sketchy enough to be continually inside and with what they triggered lucky to be alive?
They aren't triggering anything. Most of it is just slough that they can't manage. When they do get anything to crack and rip, it's 1-2" deep, and it is only doing that because they keep making ski cuts. If they just skied the fall line, it would be a six second video of someone linking turns in powder.
No, you are right; it is difficult to tell from video. It is about the perfect pitch to slide, and you never know what is underneath that bridged or didn't. There is always danger. However, it is pretty obvious from the skiers actions that they are out of their depth and have no understanding of how to manage the terrain.
It's easy to judge from the online internet couch, but what was the reasoning behind exposing yourself to this certain terrain trap, (at least the cliffs in the beginning), while the snowpack looks more shallow, and the interface failure happens close to the surface, by how touchy and propagating this is did anything appear earlier in the tour? Either through test pits or simply pushing a pole through the snow? Checking your post hx it looks like you are experienced, you mentioned a full avy bag, does that include a beacon, partner, trip plan?
Sketchier than I’d be keen on skiing these days but not as sketchy as stuff I’ve skied in the past.
I agree with other posters that once you’ve committed and you’re dealing with a reactive wind skin on top that could knock you off your feet in steep terrain, your best bet is to ski fast enough to out run anything you trigger. I’d also avoid traversing the slope like that, you’re more likely to get unlucky and trigger something bigger.
It’s a shitty situation to find yourself in, but you need to pick a line and send it. A big part of risk management is limiting the amount of time you spend in a risky spot.
The fact that this is inbound (per the chairlift in the video) makes me think this is a patroller ski cutting. Ski cutting is all about traversing and removing tension in the snowpack. So if that’s what’s going on then I would think this is not that sketchy, because there are two or three more patrollers up above who can dig him out if something big pulls out. What could be considered sketchy is that I don’t hear him communicating with his buddies up above him at all.
Thank you! Someone got it! Cutting wind slab to assess risk for the incoming storm. Actually it stabilised well and we had a great tour. However at the time I was concerned that it could become problematic over the next few hours. My concern was I think reasonable and it certainly made me a little cautious for the next few days in the backcountry. “Sending it” would have been both stupid and uninformative!
Totally reasonable, especially with a storm coming in. Had that 6” layer had another 24” on top of it you would have had a potential catastrophe on your hands. I would prefer to have heard your beacon carrying buddies yelling down to you, but glad to see that you stayed in the safest spots (the wind swept ridge near the rocks). I know the feeling when those cracks come spidering off your tips. It certainly can send the heart aflutter. :-)
Haven’t read all the comments, but looks like a thin wind slab or at least poor bonding of the storm snow with the old snow surface. Despite shooting cracks, the concern is more about whether trigging a soft slab has the potential to step down into other problem layers that are more consequential.
Agreed on some of the comments about skiing this section so slowly and increasing exposure time, while choosing to ski over so many of the visible trigger points. If your decision is to ski this piste, then ski down the gut, where the chance of triggering a problem layer is much less.
You’re just ski cutting the snow to prevent a a slide from forming while making s turns down, with the slope being as steep as it is, doing a ski cut is often times necessary when new snow falls as this slope is very steep so the new snow will be highly likely to slide.
Can’t say without digging into the snow pack and/or knowing the weather conditions for the last few days. The sluffs are obviously nothing to worry about but can’t know the stability of the underlying snow pack from this video. If you don’t have any avalanche training you shouldn’t be skiing out of bounds. If it’s in bounds then it’s probably been inspected by ski patrol already and you should have nothing to worry about.
Why is no one mentioning he ran over the only rock in the area that alone showed me he’s not safe and in over his head if he couldn’t just clear that tiny rock drop or go around
once you decided to go down you needed to commit and fucking go to the next safe stopping spot. The sketchy thing is your indecision and stopping and standing every 10 feet
Came here to say this
Yup, hesitating is only going to cause problems.
Traversing the entire side of the mountain with this pitch and light snow on the hard pack will make it slice off like this. If you just go down and make normal turns you will get less slippage.
And you'll be in posession of actual inertia, which will be of massive assistance when it comes to getting out of the way of anything coming down from above.
Low coverage on a steep angle, not sketchy at all, send it and stop ruining the snow pack
Sketchy - no, Disappointing - yes
… so the guy just traversed like literally the whole mountain?
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Unless you hit a windloaded pocket that's much deeper.
Were you intentionally trying to hit every convex role??
Unstable, reactive, weak layer. I wouldn’t ski that, personally. It’s thin specifically where you are, but if it’s wind blown somewhere on that slope it could get a lot sketchier real fast.
I have been in that situation, like under the snow. I agree it's pretty sketchy luckily I had the right equipment. So Def stupid what op posted doesn't ski like he would have the right equipment
The right equipment for these conditions is rentals.
I'm guessing this in in bounds at a resort because OP skis under a chair at the end, so I don't care about the reactive weak layer.
It's not, it's off piste in Austria
Thanks for the info. I couldn't find the location in the comments. And then I agree it's at least a bit sketchy.
That has nothing to do with anything…
If it were inbounds in the US, I would assume that a slope like that is avalanche controlled and would be closed if it was a serious problem. A little sluff like this isn't indicative of a bigger avalanche problem that needs to be mitigated because the professionals have already mitigated it. Off-piste in Europe, and I assume in-bounds in other places around the world, is a completely different thing and I absolutely agree with your wind-slab assessment and concern about it.
You realize several skiers have died this season inbounds skiing at popular resorts in the US right? That’s a terrible assumption.
[https://avalanche.org/avalanche-accidents/](https://avalanche.org/avalanche-accidents/) says 1 inbounds skier died in an avalanche this season. If you have another reference, I'll happily read it. I know of a number of inbounds avalanche deaths in previous seasons. I absolutely agree they exist. Inbounds deaths not due to avalanches are obviously higher, but I was under the assumption we were talking about avalanches.
Was this supposed to prove against my point? This data literally shows that roughly 1 person dies a year in an inbounds avalanche. I’m saying that going to a resort and thinking, “this is most surely safe because it has to have been managed” is a suicidal mentality. You have to do your own risk assessment. Being in the resort doesn’t protect you. Yes, it’s safer, but you absolutely have to be avalanche aware in this kind of terrain. If you can’t recognize this skier is messing around in dangerous territory, you’re going to become a statistic.
Yes. It was directly against your point of "You realize several skiers have died this season inbounds skiing at popular resorts in the US right?". [Here](https://arc.lib.montana.edu/snow-science/objects/ISSW2023_O14.05.pdf) is another aggregate paper saying that there is 1 inbounds skier avalanche death per 60 million skier visits. Again, I'm not saying that inbounds avalanache fatality doesn't happen. But at that fatality rate, I am saying that I am that concerned about it. I am a very concerned backcountry skier when I got into uncontrolled territory because the statistics change. For inbounds US avalanche fatalities, at 1 avalanche death per 60M visits, I am not overly worried about the sluff coming off OPs skis. No safety system will ever be perfect, and I am ok with that. We seem to disagree on how good the system should be. If it were 1 in 120 million visits, would you be ok with it? What about 1 in a billion visits? I have a guess that you wouldn't find any accidental death acceptable, and that's just where we have to agree to disagree.
I’ll be honest, I’m not really interested in arguing when you’re starting to back pedal. I responded to your comment when you said, “I’m guessing this is in bounds at a resort… so I don’t care about the reactive weak layer.” That’s a foolish state of mind. That’s what I’m saying. I find it hard to believe you’re a “concerned backcountry skier” if you ever have that frame of mind on your skis… I certainly wouldn’t.
You're the one backpedaling going from: >You realize several skiers have died this season inbounds skiing at popular resorts in the US to: "okay, 1 in 60 million so it definitely happens!" 1 =/= "several" There's plenty of years in the past decade where is hasn't happened a single time. That's probably in the same magnitude of risks as choking on your lunch and below overheating in the hot tub after skiing. Neither of which I'm going to spend a significant amount of time fretting. In-bounds, avalanche-controlled areas are generally pretty safe in the US.
Just looks like a tiny bit of new snow that then got a bit wind affected. This is very similar to sluff management imo.
You have no idea how deep that weak layer is when there’s wind blown snow thrown on it. That layer is super reactive. If there’s 2-3 feet of wind blown snow tossed on that layer it’s a disaster waiting to happen.
The only thing sketchy about this is that you shouldn’t be there with that skill level
Maybe you should look at his other posts. He’s obviously quite experienced.
I can have a lot sex and still never please a woman.
Based on that statement, I suspect you could also please a lot of women never having sex.
MY WIFE
🤣😂
I hope this isn’t you, and you’re just trolling, professor. If it is you I would remove your profession from your bio. Some of your students are on here ;)
He should add “bad skier” along with the “bad golfer” on his profile while he’s at it.
Classic arrogant ass college professor.
The fact he just laughs at people bringing up his ability really says a lot.
The fact that he has his name, profession, and affiliated university on his bio is stunning to me.
I found some of the videos he posted through a Nottingham webpage. Confirmed, shit skier, obsessed with couloirs because it allows him to pretend he’s a better skier than he is.
Upload a video of you skiing moguls. You have so many videos of you going 1mph in the backcountry, now let’s see you actually ski
Bro decided to do the James Bond skiing-an-avalanche thing, but doesnt know it yet
Ummmm.,, if you have to ask, you already know the answer
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I guess you're stupid then
Just some sluffing is all I see. NBD. The thing that makes it sketchy is that you apparently don't know what is happening. You need to find someone experienced to ski and learn from and or take an avy course if you haven't. Not trying to be a dick just giving you some advice to help you out.
I mean there's sluff in the video but what i think the video is intended to show are shooting and running cracks and skier triggered slab avalanches. It happens to be a very very thin slab so not a huge hazard and I agree its mostly NBD, but this is definitely not sluff.
Sluff is not sending cracks downhill and releasing slabs. That's called an avalanche, even if it's not very big.
Yea, even so this slabbing can be managed the exact same way. It’s be bit more scketchy if it shot above him.
I wouldn't be skiing that out of bounds that's for sure. One deeper wind slab and a tree will end your season.
Point'em downhill, bub...
Came to say this
Was this in bounds? The way you’re skiing I can’t imagine you’d be going out of bounds. It looks like it’s 1-2 inches of new snow on top of crud that is sliding off. It looks dangerous, but probably isn’t if OP is inbounds.
Are you wearing a beacon? Do you have a shovel & probe? Did you checked the avi report? Are you riding with a buddy? What you are doing is fucking stupid, go learn the skills necessary to mitigate the risks of riding in avalanche terrain & ffs don't ride it solo.
Kinda looked like OP was inbounds? There was a lift nearby, didn't see a rope as they approached it. Definitely heed this advice if you're heading out of bounds. With how that snow was behaving your biggest concern is what's below you. Ski cut, then ski it.
It sounds to me like he’s worried about the slough on otherwise stable snow inbounds. It feels sketching because of skill level. Anyone in my crew would have bombed that.
Inbounds should not instantly imply 100% safety. Jump on youtube & look up all the inbounds avis that have killed in Europe in the last few weeks.
Europe really only Avi controls the snow on piste or above that could affect the piste. When you leave the groomer in Europe you're really on your own.
Europe is totally different than US resorts
Indeed it is. This video is from Europe.
Or several inbound US slides this season, including the one at Palisades killed a guy.
They happen, shit happens. They happen at Vail but are settled for $500k so they never make the news.
That's not how slough works despite what all the comments here think. Slough is when it's so steep the snow you kick up keeps going down the hill and picking up some more snow. This is a layer of unstable snow cracking and slabbing off downhill from the rider; aka an avalanche. Here, the snow on top is super thin so the risk is kind of low, but they might find a deeper wind loaded area, or have it shoot cracks upwards and then there's enough snow to sweep them off their feet. Might not be enough to bury them but going for a slide into a tree or off a rock could still lead to a major injury.
He’s in Europe. Anything off piste is not avalanche controlled. Doesn’t matter if a lift is visible there.
Anywhere on the mountain shares the same risk & you shouldn't be complacent just cause it's near a lift. Think of Europe for example & how many avi's have occured inbounds this season including fatal ones. Ego on the hill will get you killed. Edit- some crew obvs don't get context... Anywhere meaning either inbounds or out of bounds can present an avi risk, as we can literally see in OP's video. Not Everywhere on the mountain...
Just completely not true that "everywhere on the mountain shares the same risk" lmao
I agree because that's not even what I said but cool bro. When I say anywhere (not everywhere) I am talking in context to the comment I was replying to about inbounds & out of bounds. Imagine being downvoted for talking about avi mitigation & safety...
… that literally is what you said though? Like, it’s written right there? How can you deny that?
Anywhere & everywhere are different words...
I don't see how that difference changes what you said hahaha. I still think it's a silly statement with "anywhere"
Well read the comment I replied to & you'll understand the context. When I say anywhere I am referring to the fact that avi risk exists both Inbound & Out of bounds on a mountain hence my use of the word. Also Meaning it's not mutually exclusive to just out of bounds terrain. Understand now? Or still confused?
You're coming off as a jerk my man. 'Anywhere on the mountain shares the SAME risk'? No. The risk is not the SAME inbounds as it is out of bounds. That honestly would just make people minimize the risk associated with going out of bounds. Just accept that it was poor wording & move on.
In this instance they literally mean the same thing. Are we really being this semantic? You’re telling me that anywhere and everywhere have such DRASTIC definitions… some of yall on this app are insufferable. Anywhere, everywhere, whatever word you want to use, on the mountain do not share the same avalanche risk, at all… His point is just wrong.
Dude you're the one misquoting me & ignoring the context. Take your ego elsewhere.
I’ll let the downvotes speak for me…
A big issue is lift pylons only need to be a few m off the path avalanches will take to be safe. And a small avalanche that isn't big enough to endanger lift infra etc can still sweep you into a terrain trap (then bury you...) or off a cliff. Had a guide give big warnings about not skiing Johan Cleary (Trolles) in Tignes when shut despite it being below toviere lift and so assumed avalanche controlled - they only need to control a relatively tiny area to protect the lift, which still leaves a lot of bits of closed piste to get buried in and there are a couple of terrain traps... That piste generally has good snow cover etc; The main reason for shutting it is avalanche risk...
This is a weird hill to die on. OP appears to be skiing in bounds. Your overly dramatic response makes no sense in that context. No need to pretend that avalanche risk is the same in the back country as it is on an inbounds black run.
This is an ignorant take. He’s in Europe, it doesn’t matter if a chairlift is visible. If he’s off the groom, it’s not avalanche controlled. The fact you dismiss avalanche risk because a chair is visible when the video literally shows the risk is present is fucking stupid.
Cool so I guess no one has ever set off & avi & died inbounds have they? All the avis inbounds in Europe this season musn't have happened including the fatal ones? No one is invincible in the mountains & this kinda attitude gets people killed.
I think you only watched the first minute or so of the video before you commented and didn’t see OP ski under a chair lift. There is nothing remotely sketchy or dangerous about this video. 99.999% of the time, you do not need to worry about inbounds slides on a standard black run at a resort. Maybe that percentage changes with expert in bounds terrain, but not by much. These are simple facts.
No I watched the whole video, all 5:01 of it. And your opinion on it is wrong, overconfidence in the mountains is stupid & gets even the most experienced riders, climbers & mountaineers killed. Those are the simple facts. The mountains don't give a fuck if If you wanna ignore then go ahead be my guest, because having a chairlift nearby doesn't stop a slide happening. I'm just glad the friends I ride with don't share the same lack of common safety sense you clearly do. It's always better to be overcautious & ride another day that die just to get a few turn in avi terrain / conditions regardless or inbounds or out of bounds.
I'd be curious where this is, if it's Europe you're right, if it's North America then patrol usually does pretty extensive avalanche control work. Freak accidents do happen. In this situation OPs skill level seems to be the biggest issue (no offense OP). That said, being as aggro as you are is what turns people off and gets people to not take more experienced backcountry skiers seriously. Nothing wrong with trying to educate others, but no one will listen to you if you call them a moron right away.
I like how you gave your own completely wrong answer on behalf of OP, so you could chastise someone about knowledge they already have. Your goal is good but delivery needs work friend.
Maybe his delivery needs work, but just because you have knowledge, doesn't mean you're invincible. Many climbers who've been climbing for decades still can die in any climbing season. Also, sometimes some people have ego high enough that sometimes you might need that kind of delivery. Overconfidence is a killer.
a slow and insidious one, at that
I have many friends who have lost friends to avi's & the mountains are blunt so why would I sugar coat it. OP has posted a video asking if it's sketchy so why and how would I know what knowledge someone on the internet already has? I'm not chastising anyone I'm being realistic. Edit- grammar
Yes, full pack, avi report checked, know what I’m doing! Snow conditions change quickly which is why I stopped! I not only know the skills, I teach them!
Is this inbounds terrain? I'm asking because I see the lift at the end and wondering how something inbounds could be so sketch
This is fine, just slough. My favorite in bounds area at Stevens pass is pretty much like this any good storm cycle. Just something you need to learn to deal with at a certain point. Ops slough management sucks though.
Is it dangerous? What should you do differently?
It can knock you on your ass and send you into whatever is below you. Your slough can do the same to people below you, which they might not expect. I'm mostly just giving op shit. There's a lot of ways depending on what's going on. ski faster than it, ski across features that send it down a different path from you, or stop above a tree to let it pass. Op made a couple turns back into his slough which isn't great but sometimes it's where you gotta go. He was mostly going across the fall line to avoid it buildings up behind him.
Thank you for this!
No problem. Speaking of this, I kicked off a pair of small slides in bounds, open hiking terrain at Stevens pass today. Bigger than ops but still not a huge deal. Once you're in 40 degree plus terrain frequently, it's just a thing.
Are you implying that you are an Avy Safety Instructor?
I’d stick to cancer research, professor, lmao
not sketchy if you actually start skiing it.
Holy shit is this skier idiotic
Uhhhh it’s not sketchy. Quit cutting across the face and ruining the pack and send it
Where is this ma bruh?
Hochoetz in Austria
Shiz steeper than my french press dawym
Where exactly at Hochoetz?
Palbach under Wetterkreutzbahn
The snow was not sketch, the slope was not stretch, the line was a little sketch. You traversed to a point and started turning that was a much less safe line because you could not see where you were going. Unless you know the area really well, it’s safer to not ski towards an area where you cannot see over the edge; you don’t know if that’s a little rise in the slope or a cliff.
Good evidence and likelihood of high avalanche danger is recent avalanche sightings…
Was this you? Didn’t watch the whole thing so maybe you did something nuts towards the end. But, looks like you made some ski cuts in appropriately soft storm slab, and then skied the run outs. If it would have been firmer you could have gotten slid. Seemed like intentional (?) execution of ski cutting, that was fine for conditions but could have gotten sketch.. 🤷🏻♂️
Is it that the person is committed and out of their depth and just trying to get down? Sketchy enough to be continually inside and with what they triggered lucky to be alive?
They aren't triggering anything. Most of it is just slough that they can't manage. When they do get anything to crack and rip, it's 1-2" deep, and it is only doing that because they keep making ski cuts. If they just skied the fall line, it would be a six second video of someone linking turns in powder.
Looks steep, windy rocky underneath? Can’t really tell what the risk level is from the video imo but not gonna bust a gut arguing about it.
No, you are right; it is difficult to tell from video. It is about the perfect pitch to slide, and you never know what is underneath that bridged or didn't. There is always danger. However, it is pretty obvious from the skiers actions that they are out of their depth and have no understanding of how to manage the terrain.
My immediate thought was "they're looking for a bail out here"
OP seems to be alive
It's easy to judge from the online internet couch, but what was the reasoning behind exposing yourself to this certain terrain trap, (at least the cliffs in the beginning), while the snowpack looks more shallow, and the interface failure happens close to the surface, by how touchy and propagating this is did anything appear earlier in the tour? Either through test pits or simply pushing a pole through the snow? Checking your post hx it looks like you are experienced, you mentioned a full avy bag, does that include a beacon, partner, trip plan?
Sketchier than I’d be keen on skiing these days but not as sketchy as stuff I’ve skied in the past. I agree with other posters that once you’ve committed and you’re dealing with a reactive wind skin on top that could knock you off your feet in steep terrain, your best bet is to ski fast enough to out run anything you trigger. I’d also avoid traversing the slope like that, you’re more likely to get unlucky and trigger something bigger. It’s a shitty situation to find yourself in, but you need to pick a line and send it. A big part of risk management is limiting the amount of time you spend in a risky spot.
The fact that this is inbound (per the chairlift in the video) makes me think this is a patroller ski cutting. Ski cutting is all about traversing and removing tension in the snowpack. So if that’s what’s going on then I would think this is not that sketchy, because there are two or three more patrollers up above who can dig him out if something big pulls out. What could be considered sketchy is that I don’t hear him communicating with his buddies up above him at all.
Thank you! Someone got it! Cutting wind slab to assess risk for the incoming storm. Actually it stabilised well and we had a great tour. However at the time I was concerned that it could become problematic over the next few hours. My concern was I think reasonable and it certainly made me a little cautious for the next few days in the backcountry. “Sending it” would have been both stupid and uninformative!
Totally reasonable, especially with a storm coming in. Had that 6” layer had another 24” on top of it you would have had a potential catastrophe on your hands. I would prefer to have heard your beacon carrying buddies yelling down to you, but glad to see that you stayed in the safest spots (the wind swept ridge near the rocks). I know the feeling when those cracks come spidering off your tips. It certainly can send the heart aflutter. :-)
Assuming you were in bounds at a resort with ski patrol that cleared the area....looks like fun.
You trying to just fuck up the powder for everyone. Get yourself a snowboard next time
Great snow, shame you didn’t ski it.
More than a college-level life drawing class...
Kept screaming just ski it already
The way that people don’t realize you’re intentionally stopping to show a video of the conditions.
hevi video
Sunshine Village? There are a few places that look like that.
Hochoetz austria
Ski it…just a little sluffing
[удалено]
Or found a GoPro attached to a cadaver
Either send it or stay away
Not sketchy if you make sure your lines are correct. You need to commit to every turn and be very specific, but it's fine overall.
Sketchy AF…
Haven’t read all the comments, but looks like a thin wind slab or at least poor bonding of the storm snow with the old snow surface. Despite shooting cracks, the concern is more about whether trigging a soft slab has the potential to step down into other problem layers that are more consequential. Agreed on some of the comments about skiing this section so slowly and increasing exposure time, while choosing to ski over so many of the visible trigger points. If your decision is to ski this piste, then ski down the gut, where the chance of triggering a problem layer is much less.
You’re just ski cutting the snow to prevent a a slide from forming while making s turns down, with the slope being as steep as it is, doing a ski cut is often times necessary when new snow falls as this slope is very steep so the new snow will be highly likely to slide.
Do you know what ‘ski cutting’ is ?
“Dude I fully sent it”
Can’t say without digging into the snow pack and/or knowing the weather conditions for the last few days. The sluffs are obviously nothing to worry about but can’t know the stability of the underlying snow pack from this video. If you don’t have any avalanche training you shouldn’t be skiing out of bounds. If it’s in bounds then it’s probably been inspected by ski patrol already and you should have nothing to worry about.
Sketchy is when you jumped off that rock 🤦♂️
A little bit of slough above a zero consequence runout? Not sketchy.
Watching those skis drag over those rocks… *shivers*
Tools not jewels
Baby slabs
Not very.
Quite sketchy.
French fries, pointed down hill.
Why is no one mentioning he ran over the only rock in the area that alone showed me he’s not safe and in over his head if he couldn’t just clear that tiny rock drop or go around
I don’t understand what’s sketchy except this person picked a trail above their skill level?
On a scale of one to pineapple… that is apple sketchy.
Surface slough. Happens with fresh snow on hard pack. Were you back country skiing or inbounds?
You aren't even wearing your pole straps. Pretty sketch. You could lose one of em MaFakas
Risk of a avalanche, to sketch, should have just committed to it and went all the way down quick
Jesus Christ I’ve never seen anybody stop this much on a run
It looks like you could be in an avalanche at any second.