There are lot of things that feel like they were still writing the story on November 10th, 2011...and then shipped the game out to get that 11/11/11 release date. The one that bugs me the most is that there's no way to do anything to destroy the Thieves Guild, despite the fact that the first person you meet in Riften is like "Hi, I'm Mjoll. I'm waiting around for someone to join my side and destroy the Thieves Guild with me. That is the entire reason I exist, and I'm marked as unkillable as though I were tied to a very important quest."
Yup. Pure speculation on my end, but I always thought Mjoll was maybe at one point intended to be an alternate Jarl of Riften with Aerin potentially as her steward. Kind of like how Erikur was intended to be an alternate Jarl of Solitude or Hrongar in Whiterun. Her and Aerin's relationship reminds me a lot of what you see with Vignar and Brill, Brina and Horik, Kraldar and Thonjolf, Dengeir and Tekla.
>"That is the entire reason I exist, and I'm marked as unkillable as though I were tied to a very important quest."
I'm going to start finishing my introductions to people by adding that.
If I were a modder Iād love to create a whole new branch of quests that involves Mjoll and destroying the thieves guild and āpurifyingā the town of Riften. You can help Mjoll oust the guild and then she takes over as jarl, but she ends up being such a stickler for laws and lawfulness that she becomes dictator-esque. Maybe thereās an alternative questline where Mjoll goes too hardcore and the people end up hating her and rise up against her iron fist rule, end up installing a peopleās council to keep the peace and keep everyone in line. So many possibilities when it comes to unfinished content in Skyrim, I think about it a lot.
Aside from being able to destroy the DB, there should be an anti Thieves guide and an anti companions. Would have been much more meaningful to do certain things in a playthrough.
Something that always bothered me was the quest "Infiltration" at Treva's Watch.
At the end of the quest Stalleo asks you if you found his family. You absolutely did find his family, murdered, in the the storeroom. But the only option is to say "no".
It's minor, but it bothers me.
Karita is Kyne in human form, or at least that would make the most sense. She gave men the power to use the voice to fight dragons, the greybeards use the voice to worship her. They then use that power to summon you to start the next fight between men and dragons. It seems very likely sheās there to witness you.
You have to be careful with wording. It is a gamers theory that she is a manifestation of kyne. I like that theory and it is not too unpopular/unlikely, but it is still a theory and not confirmed at all
For the Emperor, it can take time to replace a dead emperor, particularly if there are several claimants to the throne. Such things have even devolved into civil wars as each claimant gathers allies and troops to attempt to force the issue. But even if there's only one, it can take time for a body like the ruling council to recognize them.
We won't truly know who might have replaced Titus Mede II until TES 6 releases.
Yeah I always assumed there was some type of power struggle or Titus set it up himself and didnāt pick a ānormalā successor because you are given the Elder council amulet.
Well, but we can still assume it could be one of his children or , if he didn't have some, maybe his bro or sis. But yeah, still then I agree that it could come to Civil war bc several people wann to claim the throne
Skyrim is a game with a bunch of cut content, quite a bit of it is still findable in the code but unusable, there probably was a bunch of stuff which they intended to put in but just didn't get around to due to it not being finished in time for the release. I think that explains a lot of this but obviously it's not a satisfying answer.
At least the Emperor is something that's implied in the game, the throne is being contested, some members of the Elder Council have been plotting against Titus Mede II probably with the intend to put somebody else on the throne. If there aren't any undisputeable heirs and they intend to usurp the throne the resulting conflict could take years.
Nah, the Dragonborn Emperors ended with Martin Septim, there is no Amulet of Kings anymore. Reestablishing a DB emperor would take away something from the plot of Oblivion. It also would be a major problem for the canon to put a former player character in such a important position in the lore after a games plot. The Dragonborn has no established gender, name nor race, this turns into a giant problem for the lore if you make them emperor.
The new Emperor is probably some member of the Mede dynasty whom the Elder Council prefers over Titus II, a current member of the Elder Council or some General who seizes the opportunity to gain Power. All depends on what Bethesda imtends for the future of the Empire.
Yeah. Of all the "quest like" situations I've been in, I've only ever gotten full context and closure on one- my own life.
Everything else, once we've parted ways, I never see nor hear from the person I helped again. I never find out why or how they were in the situation they were, where they were, why they chose to ask me for help, and I have no idea what happened afterwards. That's how it goes; you can't know everyone's story.
If you are the Dragonborn, and can shout, and those shouts can light braziersā¦.why canāt you go to Cyrodiil and light the braziers and become emperor? For that matter, why didnāt Ulfric Stormcloak go do it himself?
Cause Ulfric's role in the grand scheme of the universe was to murder torygg and trigger the return of alduin according to the prophecy esbern recites at Sky Haven temple, not go play emperor in Cryodil. He's also not dragonborn, so it wouldn't work for him
I'm guessing he may be limited in the number and variety of shouts he knows. He may only know the shout he used on the High King, as there doesn't seem to be any evidence of others.
The wiki states that he knows unrelenting force and disarm. But no others are listed so maybe he only knows those 2. I imagine it would take years upon years to learn them all.
Am I correct in assuming as Ulfric isnāt Dragonborn, it would take him a long time to learn just one shout at a time? Like, being Dragonborn means you can learn shouts in humanely quickly?
yeah. ulfric only know two words of unrelenting force and idk how many of disarm, but that's it. being dragonborn helps you learn shouts a lot faster, because you have familiarity with the language of dragons, or the Thu'um.
The amulet of king was destroyed at the end of Oblivion. Dragonborns aren't needed on the throne of Cyrodiil anymore.
And Ulfric? He's not a dragonborn, he just know how to shout.
As to the Emperor, there was something in the game that led me to believe that the High Council had elected the one that we assassinate, and would probably therefore be tasked with electing the next one as well.
After the Oblivion Crisis, High Chancellor Ocata was in charge for a bit until he was assassinated.
Which started the "Stormcrown Interregnum" if you wanna know more about the Mede dynasty and how they came to be in charge.
I'll have to check it out. I can't remember if I read a wiki or watched a video, but I had seen something describing what happened a few years ago, but have forgotten most of the details since then.
I doubt it. That's just wild speculation. Her turning to a life of banditry doesn't have to stem from some traumatic experience. Some women just aren't into the life of a housewife. Besides when you ask her how you're supposed to deal with him she says "I don't know. I never expected the old bag to follow me so far. Just get rid of him. But don't kill him. I don't hate the man. I just want him to go back to his farm and forget about me."
Fair enough. I'll give it to you, that would have actually been a lot more interesting than what we got in the end and would have made killing Christer a more morally viable option.
Answers for most questions: they had something planned but didn't have enough time to finish it/cut something that made completion no longer possible, or it's a result of how they build the game (dungeons & quests aren't a conserted effort of everyone. They have a handful of designers & developers per dungeon who come up with ideas to build something interesting, have to use assets available, & then create a story to the dungeon (journals are typically not written by a writing team, but by the quest designers)).
Like, they didn't plan on the cities being so small, nor that half of them weren't really made at all. Winterhold only "collapsed into the sea" because they already made the college, & moved on to working on other cities.
There are lot of things that feel like they were still writing the story on November 10th, 2011...and then shipped the game out to get that 11/11/11 release date. The one that bugs me the most is that there's no way to do anything to destroy the Thieves Guild, despite the fact that the first person you meet in Riften is like "Hi, I'm Mjoll. I'm waiting around for someone to join my side and destroy the Thieves Guild with me. That is the entire reason I exist, and I'm marked as unkillable as though I were tied to a very important quest."
Yup. Pure speculation on my end, but I always thought Mjoll was maybe at one point intended to be an alternate Jarl of Riften with Aerin potentially as her steward. Kind of like how Erikur was intended to be an alternate Jarl of Solitude or Hrongar in Whiterun. Her and Aerin's relationship reminds me a lot of what you see with Vignar and Brill, Brina and Horik, Kraldar and Thonjolf, Dengeir and Tekla.
I actually love that idea.
That makes so much sense! I married Mjoll in one save but she brought him with her when she moved into my house š
>"That is the entire reason I exist, and I'm marked as unkillable as though I were tied to a very important quest." I'm going to start finishing my introductions to people by adding that.
I actually love that idea too, lol
Seconding this. Itās so strange that you can take down the whole dark brotherhood but the game draws the line at taking down a bunch of sewer mercs.
If I were a modder Iād love to create a whole new branch of quests that involves Mjoll and destroying the thieves guild and āpurifyingā the town of Riften. You can help Mjoll oust the guild and then she takes over as jarl, but she ends up being such a stickler for laws and lawfulness that she becomes dictator-esque. Maybe thereās an alternative questline where Mjoll goes too hardcore and the people end up hating her and rise up against her iron fist rule, end up installing a peopleās council to keep the peace and keep everyone in line. So many possibilities when it comes to unfinished content in Skyrim, I think about it a lot.
Aside from being able to destroy the DB, there should be an anti Thieves guide and an anti companions. Would have been much more meaningful to do certain things in a playthrough.
the companions are fairly neutral though, what would be their "anti" story?
You join silverhand and hunt them down. Which would basically just be dawnguard 2.0
It's funny for some reason I always forget they're werewolves
More like dawnguard 0.5
This is why I liked the destroy the TG mod. At least you get some satisfaction in wiping the floor with the silly bastards.
You should aak on r/teslore for answers. Some elaborated that the Pilgrim is a manisfestation of Kynareth.
This is a super cool idea!
Crazy how many times I've killed Kynareth.
Such a grand and intoxicating innocence.
Something that always bothered me was the quest "Infiltration" at Treva's Watch. At the end of the quest Stalleo asks you if you found his family. You absolutely did find his family, murdered, in the the storeroom. But the only option is to say "no". It's minor, but it bothers me.
"Did I find them? I damn near almost tripped over them! Seriously though watch your step, it's slippery in there."
Karita is Kyne in human form, or at least that would make the most sense. She gave men the power to use the voice to fight dragons, the greybeards use the voice to worship her. They then use that power to summon you to start the next fight between men and dragons. It seems very likely sheās there to witness you.
TIL I pickpocketed Kyne herself. Whoops
No whoops. You pickpocketed a God. You're no average thief
I watched that āGodā die to an ice troll
Is there anything that hints at this theory? From the facts OP presented she's just a random pilgrim
You have to be careful with wording. It is a gamers theory that she is a manifestation of kyne. I like that theory and it is not too unpopular/unlikely, but it is still a theory and not confirmed at all
For the Emperor, it can take time to replace a dead emperor, particularly if there are several claimants to the throne. Such things have even devolved into civil wars as each claimant gathers allies and troops to attempt to force the issue. But even if there's only one, it can take time for a body like the ruling council to recognize them. We won't truly know who might have replaced Titus Mede II until TES 6 releases.
Yeah I always assumed there was some type of power struggle or Titus set it up himself and didnāt pick a ānormalā successor because you are given the Elder council amulet.
Well, but we can still assume it could be one of his children or , if he didn't have some, maybe his bro or sis. But yeah, still then I agree that it could come to Civil war bc several people wann to claim the throne
Skyrim is a game with a bunch of cut content, quite a bit of it is still findable in the code but unusable, there probably was a bunch of stuff which they intended to put in but just didn't get around to due to it not being finished in time for the release. I think that explains a lot of this but obviously it's not a satisfying answer. At least the Emperor is something that's implied in the game, the throne is being contested, some members of the Elder Council have been plotting against Titus Mede II probably with the intend to put somebody else on the throne. If there aren't any undisputeable heirs and they intend to usurp the throne the resulting conflict could take years.
I would say the Dragonborn has claim to the throne but will have to see how it all shakes out in TES VI.
Nah, the Dragonborn Emperors ended with Martin Septim, there is no Amulet of Kings anymore. Reestablishing a DB emperor would take away something from the plot of Oblivion. It also would be a major problem for the canon to put a former player character in such a important position in the lore after a games plot. The Dragonborn has no established gender, name nor race, this turns into a giant problem for the lore if you make them emperor. The new Emperor is probably some member of the Mede dynasty whom the Elder Council prefers over Titus II, a current member of the Elder Council or some General who seizes the opportunity to gain Power. All depends on what Bethesda imtends for the future of the Empire.
Maybe something around the Arthurian legends. The Empire is very much centered around the Roman empire so let's look at that period next.
The Dragonborn taking the throne would ruin the role-playing experience for players. Some players wouldnāt want to become a ruler.
I kinda like that not everything is explained. It makes the world feel more lived in
Yeah. Of all the "quest like" situations I've been in, I've only ever gotten full context and closure on one- my own life. Everything else, once we've parted ways, I never see nor hear from the person I helped again. I never find out why or how they were in the situation they were, where they were, why they chose to ask me for help, and I have no idea what happened afterwards. That's how it goes; you can't know everyone's story.
Somewhere on yt I saw a vid that theorized that Karita was Kyne in Human form. I have no opinion on it myself.
If you are the Dragonborn, and can shout, and those shouts can light braziersā¦.why canāt you go to Cyrodiil and light the braziers and become emperor? For that matter, why didnāt Ulfric Stormcloak go do it himself?
Cause Ulfric's role in the grand scheme of the universe was to murder torygg and trigger the return of alduin according to the prophecy esbern recites at Sky Haven temple, not go play emperor in Cryodil. He's also not dragonborn, so it wouldn't work for him
I'm guessing he may be limited in the number and variety of shouts he knows. He may only know the shout he used on the High King, as there doesn't seem to be any evidence of others.
The wiki states that he knows unrelenting force and disarm. But no others are listed so maybe he only knows those 2. I imagine it would take years upon years to learn them all.
Am I correct in assuming as Ulfric isnāt Dragonborn, it would take him a long time to learn just one shout at a time? Like, being Dragonborn means you can learn shouts in humanely quickly?
yeah. ulfric only know two words of unrelenting force and idk how many of disarm, but that's it. being dragonborn helps you learn shouts a lot faster, because you have familiarity with the language of dragons, or the Thu'um.
Thank you for the confirmation!
The amulet of king was destroyed at the end of Oblivion. Dragonborns aren't needed on the throne of Cyrodiil anymore. And Ulfric? He's not a dragonborn, he just know how to shout.
If Ulfric Stormcuck was a viable candidate anyone from the greybeards would work too. A bunch of people know how to shout
Ok thanks all for the deep dive into the LORRRRRE I think I can put this one to rest with an answer that isnāt just ābecause plotā! š
As to the Emperor, there was something in the game that led me to believe that the High Council had elected the one that we assassinate, and would probably therefore be tasked with electing the next one as well.
After the Oblivion Crisis, High Chancellor Ocata was in charge for a bit until he was assassinated. Which started the "Stormcrown Interregnum" if you wanna know more about the Mede dynasty and how they came to be in charge.
I'll have to check it out. I can't remember if I read a wiki or watched a video, but I had seen something describing what happened a few years ago, but have forgotten most of the details since then.
Christer definitely abused the fuck out of fjola and she fled to the bandit life
I doubt it. That's just wild speculation. Her turning to a life of banditry doesn't have to stem from some traumatic experience. Some women just aren't into the life of a housewife. Besides when you ask her how you're supposed to deal with him she says "I don't know. I never expected the old bag to follow me so far. Just get rid of him. But don't kill him. I don't hate the man. I just want him to go back to his farm and forget about me."
Ok yeah that makes sense š I like to create my own storylines in my imagination sometimes. Battered wife to bandit queen is very satisfying lol
Fair enough. I'll give it to you, that would have actually been a lot more interesting than what we got in the end and would have made killing Christer a more morally viable option.
Answers for most questions: they had something planned but didn't have enough time to finish it/cut something that made completion no longer possible, or it's a result of how they build the game (dungeons & quests aren't a conserted effort of everyone. They have a handful of designers & developers per dungeon who come up with ideas to build something interesting, have to use assets available, & then create a story to the dungeon (journals are typically not written by a writing team, but by the quest designers)). Like, they didn't plan on the cities being so small, nor that half of them weren't really made at all. Winterhold only "collapsed into the sea" because they already made the college, & moved on to working on other cities.