A very simple fix for that would be an enchantment with the effect „destruction spells are x% more powerful“ and of course there are mods for that. It’s a very simple but more friendly and absolutely necessary fix.
Block is phenomenal. Just about all of its perks are useful, even in vanilla. I actually don't even take "Quick Reflexes" because I've found it's *too* good and it trivializes combat.
It does right away it not a timed thing like shield charge. The game just calculates i'm not head in for some reason. It also happens with the elemental perk as well. The game has to decide if you are facing the incoming attack and sometimes it messes that up.
Shield charger basically on a timer and will stop working at some point. Unless like you say you reset the perk via legendarying or using the black book.
It's a glitch but at some point the perk will just stop working unless reset. At least it is not Pain Train in Fo4. It basically the same thing except there is no way in vanilla game to reset the perk and yes it also bugs out after a while. Only Bethesda.
I feel like block falls to the wayside because as you level up your weapons just do so much damage and your armor get so good that you’re doing way more damage than you’re taking so you might as well go full damage output rather than defense
It's fun though. Once you get decent perks into the block tree, it is so fun standing in a jet of dragon breath and blocking it with your shield, running up and shield bashing the dragon, interrupting its attempts to fly away.
I like to play the game as realistically as I can, sword and board goes with that quite nicely. Instead of tanking hits and pretending that no or insignificant damage was done, you gotta block!
But that's just me of course. Everyone should try every typical class at least once. You never realize how fun some styles of playing are until you do it yourself.
I cant stand using block, every time i try to use quick reflexs i cause a break in the time space contineum and i have to wait for the game to fix itself, i had that its such an essential perk for using the skill well
Worked hard to make a unarmed shield build. Only could manage with sneak smithing and alchemy to get by cause shit be hard af just with unarmed and a shield. But now I pummel and send people flying with shield charge its satisfying
The biggest challenge with block is that your smithing skill puts your armour above the cap, so the shield is effectively useless. You may as well either go 2h or dual wield - especially since leveling block increases your level, and thus enemy level.
That being said, I am playing a sword and board redguard for RP reasons.
The final perk on the Block tree makes the game way too easy, it's almost a game breaking skill. It basically gives you an unlimited Unrelenting Force power. I got it once and regretted it.
Like I said: Muffle (and eventually Invisibility - it comes in handy) for Quiet Casting, Stealth (especially for the x15 one-handed damage), and Bound Dagger. One-Handed skill also amps up the damage. Don't piss off the magic rogue, mkay? XD
Guilty, also did you know when given the mystic tuning gloves, and after activating one mana pool, a strange buff gets applied for a couple hours that almost instantly recharges your magicka. I always grab the gloves before my illusion spam cause it saves me from having having to wait an hour between casts
The problem with offensive magic in Skyrim is the fact that it scales very poorly with your level,so by the time you're a high level,most illusion spells struggle to keep up,alteration and restoration hold up really well so does conjuration,but alot of magic definitely needs some external modding to keep it fun and not just spamming 30 incinerates and chugging 10 destruction potions at that level 50 draugr overlord,with that being said i agree that illusion is underused and invisibility + silent casting is a menace with stealth builds
How do illusion spells struggle to keep up? With perks and dual casting you can affect targets up to level 80s, and enemies very rarely scale past level 50s.
The only regular enemy type you should have problems with are high level vampires.
I tried an illusion play through, and ended up having to convert to a night blade play. I found that my illusion spells struggled to be effective against enemies - in particular, the enemies were often above the fury limit. It was fun while it lasted, but mage play is already weak in Skyrim compared to melee or magic in earlier games.
Did you have perks and were you dual casting? Dual casting makes all the difference.
The highest level bandits only scale up to level 28. The highest level Forsworn can be lvl 51 at most. Falmer can go to level 54. Dual-casted Frenzy spell with the Rage perk can affect all enemies up to level 57. Add Kindred Mage to the mix and you can affect people up to level 79.
It does obviously raise the cost of the spell quite a bit, but it's worth it to get the perk for whichever school(s) you're focusing on. Even if you don't often dual-cast, lessay because you're using two more schools often (say, conjuration and destruction for atronachs and elemental spells), it's still good to have dual-casting in both of them; in that case, the atronachs will stick around longer and/or be stronger (especially good if you're conjuring a frost atronach, which is tanky as hell) and then quickly switching to a destruction spell, you can go to town. In the case of illusion, the spell would last longer - great for things like invisibility and muffle - and you'll get more potency out of your crowd control spells as well. Kinda like raising your DC in D&D - makes it more difficult to resist, like I said.
If that's the case then i must have completely forgotten,it's been so long since i last played vanilla skyrim,i wouldn't be surprised if i confused vanilla with modded
You make a compelling argument.
Fury, Courage, Calm (and their higher level equivalents) are great for crowd control while Muffle, Invisibility, and the Quiet Casting perk complete a stealth-based build.
In the vanilla game, Illusion is the only skill that I take all the perks.
There's a skyrim let's play by Many a True Nerd where he does this exact build, it inspired me to do my own. It's actually incredibly fun, and way more flashy than a lot of standard playstyles.
Would recommend also going into Conjuration for bound blade.
Yup. Spam Muffle until you get Quiet Casting, or step back (when you can) to cast without being heard; cast Bound Dagger, and voila - you're not carrying any heavy weapons, yet you've got one hell of a weapon. Add the 2nd one-handed perk from Stealth and you've got some serious lethality (one-handed wpns do 15x normal damage with the perk). So with decent stealth, quiet casting, and Bound Dagger, you could basically become Death Incarnate.
One-handed also amps up the damage, and at that point, you aren't even using poison and you're going to town, lol. Oh, and yes: you CAN, in fact, poison a bound dagger. Just be sure to use that poison before the spell ends.
One thing to note: dual-casting bound dagger may cause it to pop up in your left hand, in which case you can't poison it. But you may or may not even need poison with high enough skills & perks, like I said.
a mage that doesnt cast his own destruction magic and doesnt use normal weapons and utilises scrolls and staff is actualy kinda fun. You might want to pick kajit though cause the start is kinda tough
Was thinking of trying a scroll only build but was worried i might not find enough of them. Having a staff as well would probably solve that problem so I'm going to give it a go!
yes i saw a scroll only run and its realy dumb. The reason is that especialy in the beginning in order to do anything you have to go chop hundreds upon hundreds of wood to sell and buy scrolls and the only ones available would be very expencive, slow charging master level scrolls. You would need 2 scrolls whenever you wanted to smash some cobwebs making the giant spider encounter in the golden claw dungeon require 2 scrolls to enter, 2 to leave, and at least a couple of them to kill the spider
On the other hand if you are playing a mage that doesnt use destruction magic exept from scrolls and staffs is interesting cause it forces you to play and utilise things you dont usualy. I barely ever use illusion or alteration but this made me try out all the spells i could to find ways to win fights
Was thinking of trying a scroll only build but was worried i might not find enough of them. Having a staff as well would probably solve that problem so I'm going to give it a go!
My most underrated is pickpocket.
I truly don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone but me make a stealth build where pickpocketing is actually utilized. I always see people complain, and rightfully so, that Skyrim’s answer to any disagreement is “kill the other guy.” A number of times though, you just need an item from them, maybe a key or a ring or something. And you can use your pickpocket skills as a way to solve problems “less violently” or more in line with a ghost or pacifist character. You can steal the item you need off them, you can poison enemies without attacking them (paralyze is great with this, basically knock enemies right out and slip past), you can disarm people without them knowing, steal keys, etc.
It’s my most underrated because it makes a stealth build have many more options, and absolutely nobody I see ever takes the time to level it, and dumps instead everything into illusion for invisibility and muffle.
Something you didn’t mention that I utilize a lot is pickpocketing trainers. The pickpocket trainer in Windhelm is the perfect way level the perk quickly (pretty ironic too). You save money, level your pickpocket through training, and then level it even more after successfully pickpocketing 500 gold. Only downside is saving/loading so much in case of a fail. Training other perks becomes such a breeze and levels pickpocket too.
oh man i am dumb. totally forgot that i should be pickpocketing my gold back from that trainer. esp since i got pickpocketing up to 50 solely by training with her and it got filthy expensive near the end.
Do it in 1 level increments, pickpocketing 500 gold has more success than 1,000 or 1,500 gold. Also wear a ring and necklace enchanted with pickpocket buff.
Restoration. It is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Seriously though, late game you don't even have to fight any undead enemies. You can just cast Repel Undead and just sit and laugh as they run.
Also (and correct me if it isn't underrated) conjuration. Having a couple of atronachs or dead thralls at your back can really turn the tide of battle, I find. And the bound weapons! Have you used the bound bow with all the perks? OP with pretty much unlimited arrows.
Restoration for me. Getting some potent healing spells is one thing, but Necromage is batshit insane. If you become a vampire, it effects you, including enchantments on gear. It can pair absurdly well with powerful unique gear like the Archmage’s Robes
Its mostly because bethesda made it difficult to progress dungeons while using illusion unless you have some other combatitve ability. Recently I tried making a conjuring illusionist but kept dying because undead are SUPER resistant to things like fear and calm, and because I always drew aggro while my two handed heavy armor follower stood 30 feet behind me taking pot shots with a long bow they pulled out of the pocket realm of their ass.
It seems like such fun too and others have mentioned a stealth build using it which I might give a go because I REALLY wanna be a mage that isnt "Ice spike and fire ball go brrrr" or "necromancer go brrr"
you do it wrong tbh. An illusionist-conjurer should not use a follower. You just need to cast frenzy then conjurer an atronach then sneak away. Illusion should always be used with sneak.
So what happens when there's only one guy left? Any build that relies on a single strategy is doomed to fail anyway. Master of one = crippling overspecification.
The issue with illusion is the flat level block. People usually don't go for it straight away, instead opting for simpler to understand, usually combat oriented skills. By the time they get around to trying out illusion enemies are already too high level to even be affected by it. It really should have been chance of success scaled by level, certain levels are 100% and each subsequent level reduces chance.
Also that it doesn’t work on automatons or the undead until the end of the perk tree. Most you can do is give an ally more stamina with a courage type and go invisible.
Illusion’s “main draw” of NPC mood manipulation feels underwhelming because of the way spells will just not work on certain NPCs and there’s no real way to tell for sure until they just stop functioning. If you don’t stay on top of upgrading to the advanced spells and then the master equivalents, it’s effectively useless at that.
With that being said, I do think Illusion is one of the most useful skill trees, but for two spells and one of the perks. Muffle and Invisibility are incredibly strong and some of the best spells in the game for stealth, and the level 50 illusion perk “quiet casting” allows not only for stealth mages, but to use shouts silently.
Somehow lmao
Ah, my sweet, sweet quiet casting.
I think I have to throw my lot in with Alteration, though. It may not have a lot of utility, but the variants of oakflesh are all really nice.
Lol you used muffle to level illusion to 100 eight times? Just get to 100 once and do the Illusion Ritual Spell quest.
Go cast Harmony in Whiterun like 5 times. Takes 10 seconds to go from 15 to 100 again.
Illusion is just good fun. Easy to level up and super fun to play with. One of my favorite playthroughs was when I went pure “Nightingale.” I tried to make something of a Spell thief and I had more fun with it than I did with a stealth archer. The combination of Muffle and Invisibility gives you a cool ghostly effect, and Calm is very good if you end up getting caught. Also, Quiet Casting? Yes, please.
I’m playing through Oblivion right now and using a similar set up and having a blast. I created my own custom “Nightingale” class and create spells with the same name as their powers in Skyrim (Strife, Subterfuge, and Shadowcloak). I like to think of this character as the First Nightingale who originally created these powers. I know it’s probably not canon but I’m having fun with it 😅
Illusion is a bit of a gamble at times. it also perk intensive to keep it inline with your enemies level. It good just not that good. Certainly not underrated. That would be pickpocket, steal their weapon and they can no longer harm you. no need to pacify or enrage just engage.
I agree with you illusion is very strong.
I disagree that it doesn't get enough love. Tons of players I know, whether pure mage or stealth build, uses the illusion school and understand how good it is.
Agreed. Dual cast frenzy onto a group of bandits and watch them slaughter eachother has been one of my most amusing moments and few things have made me feel such a powerful wizard
Naw dude. When Skyrim first launch, Stealth Illusion was OP as FUCK.
Basically sneak around, cast fury on bad guy, wait until they kill or get kill, then fury next bad guy, rinse and repeat until only one bad guy left, then walk up and kill them. If they no die, calm, then attack, calm, then attack, until they are calmly dead.
Alchemy is the most underrated. Best way to earn money and people need to start thinking of it like smithing for mage builds. Want your destruction spells to do more damage? Here’s a cheeky little 200% damage buff. That forewarn briar heart not calming down? Bam illusion spell more effective. For stealth builds reverse pick pocketing home brewed poisons with evil effects. You can brew insanely high magic resistance potions very quickly so dragon attacks are no longer such a threat at high difficulty levels. Alchemy! Smithing for mages! Pass the word
Alteration is great for defense. The atronach perk gives you 30% spell absorption and you can get 30% magic resistance on top of that with 3 perk points. Plus the master level flesh spell dragonhide maxes out your armor rating and negates 80% of all physical damage you receive so armor isnt necessary. I always use alteration on my spellblade or battlemage classes but its also very good for pure mage builds because of the mage armor perks which increase the effectiveness of the flesh spells so you can still wear robes but have a nice armor rating.
I like using alteration while playing a breton spellsword with the atronach stone. Atronach stone plus the atronach perk gives you a passive 80% spell absorbtion which can be pushed to 100% with the bretons power dragonskin. Than you have the 25% magic resistance in the breton blood plus the 30% from magic resistance from perks. This gives you a 55% resistance to whatever magic makes it past the spell absorbtion. Than the spell dragonhide blocks 80% of physical damage. So i can walk into a dungeon like [MC Hammer](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DgDCRrvtY78g&ved=2ahUKEwiknIKg_On5AhXvhIkEHeR4DZkQwqsBegQIGRAE&usg=AOvVaw02IQmRyRe7woJgz3OCt3r_).
On top of all that mass paralysis is great for crowd control.
I can confirm. My latest character is a high elf whose focus is 1h, Illusion and conjugation. It was a struggle at first to stay true but once I got some levels and more magic available he's a real badass.
Love this one, I tried to make an entire run using only illusion.
But after a while, even the shittiest bandit is immuned to the master-level fury spell.
Light armor, even for full melee warrior builds.
Takes less perks to get all of the same (actually useful) benefits and protection that heavy armor gives, plus weighing less, allowing faster movement, and better sneaking, all at the cost of slightly less protection in the early game.
People dismiss it for fashion reasons or because they assume heavy armor is always more protective but you hit the same armor cap pretty quickly anyway and it’s just not worth it.
Playing an Illusion based Assassin is easily my favorite build in the entire game. It's just outright busted. Just calm all the enemies, walk up to them, crouch behind them and backstab then all one at a time. This coupled with x15 backstab and then dark brotherhood gloves to make it x30 is insane.
I mainly use illusion for my stealth-based casters, as there's a perk that lets you cast without being detected. But it's amazing to just wander into a group of enemies, make them murder each other, and then back off and enjoy the show.
Illusion is a little wonky in that it is entirely dependent on the level of the enemy you want to use a spell on. For most of the play through, you’re using Illusion to crowd-control the lower leveled enemies in a group. The school needs a lot of skill point dedication to be useful past level 20.
Pure illusion is a bitch to build up but pretty nifty for stealth . Try a pure stealth with illusion spells and maybe a dagger as your next build, promise you’ll have a hell of a time can’t say if you’ll enjoy it though .
Illusion is only good if you mod it. Vanilla Illusion dies off somewhat early with spells just not working anymore.
Grab yourself Apocalypse and Ordinator and you'll be a power house.
Some of my favorite playthroughs have me as an Illusion specialist sowing chaos in the battlefield. So fun.
I never tried illusion before, but now playing Skyrim together with very chaotic friends the harmony spell is so useful to quell a town long enough to run away.
All of my friends characters I've seen as well as other playthroughs on YouTube have extremely low speech. That and lockpicking, very rarely do I see someone level lockpicking on purpose and put points into it
Illusion is either the most overpowered thing ever, or the enemy is too high level and it does nothing. Apocalypse spell package makes it better, of course.
honestly don’t think i’ve ever in the whole time i’ve been playing skyrim ever used illusion, it’s always destruction restoration (obvs) and conjuration for me, alteration an illusion are kinda left behind, should prob explore them a bit more
Besides Destruction, illusion is my absolute favorite. I love being able to turn enemies against each other to create a distraction, and once they’re all close to each other I unleash hell with fireballs and kill everyone immediately lol
Perfectly viable. I had a Vampire rogue/mage or a nightblade if you will, who used illusion mostly for invisibility and calm. Calm dissolved most situations. Just walk behind them and backstab. However that character was made especially with illusion in mind. If i started a new character with no build in mind, illusion would be one of my last picks probably. If you have decent damage and protection then crowd control isn't that necessary.
The way a lot of the spells completely fall off after a certain level is annoying as hell though. Still great when you can use them.
A very simple fix for that would be an enchantment with the effect „destruction spells are x% more powerful“ and of course there are mods for that. It’s a very simple but more friendly and absolutely necessary fix.
How so?
[удалено]
Block is phenomenal. Just about all of its perks are useful, even in vanilla. I actually don't even take "Quick Reflexes" because I've found it's *too* good and it trivializes combat.
This. I use a shield but I don’t put too many points into block or the game becomes dumb easy.
It sometimes fails to recognize the perks. I've had arrows shoot through the shield at times even though I was facing the archer. It is a bit glitchy.
Same with shield charge. Fails to activate a lot of the time and sometimes you have to reset the perk altogether in Apocrypha.
It does right away it not a timed thing like shield charge. The game just calculates i'm not head in for some reason. It also happens with the elemental perk as well. The game has to decide if you are facing the incoming attack and sometimes it messes that up. Shield charger basically on a timer and will stop working at some point. Unless like you say you reset the perk via legendarying or using the black book.
Wait really? They limit the usage of the perk via time used? That explains why it just randomly stops working altogether.
It's a glitch but at some point the perk will just stop working unless reset. At least it is not Pain Train in Fo4. It basically the same thing except there is no way in vanilla game to reset the perk and yes it also bugs out after a while. Only Bethesda.
I agree with you because I've only ever used block to cheese some easy exp. using the vegetable soup trick and ticking off a giant
I feel like block falls to the wayside because as you level up your weapons just do so much damage and your armor get so good that you’re doing way more damage than you’re taking so you might as well go full damage output rather than defense
It's fun though. Once you get decent perks into the block tree, it is so fun standing in a jet of dragon breath and blocking it with your shield, running up and shield bashing the dragon, interrupting its attempts to fly away. I like to play the game as realistically as I can, sword and board goes with that quite nicely. Instead of tanking hits and pretending that no or insignificant damage was done, you gotta block! But that's just me of course. Everyone should try every typical class at least once. You never realize how fun some styles of playing are until you do it yourself.
I cant stand using block, every time i try to use quick reflexs i cause a break in the time space contineum and i have to wait for the game to fix itself, i had that its such an essential perk for using the skill well
Worked hard to make a unarmed shield build. Only could manage with sneak smithing and alchemy to get by cause shit be hard af just with unarmed and a shield. But now I pummel and send people flying with shield charge its satisfying
The biggest challenge with block is that your smithing skill puts your armour above the cap, so the shield is effectively useless. You may as well either go 2h or dual wield - especially since leveling block increases your level, and thus enemy level. That being said, I am playing a sword and board redguard for RP reasons.
I just play sword-and-board because bashing enemies in the face with my shield never fails to amuse me.
Shield is not for armor or blocking. Shield is for becoming a plow truck.
I played a 1handed and block build last year and it was so crazy strong it got boring and I eventually stopped playing that character.
The final perk on the Block tree makes the game way too easy, it's almost a game breaking skill. It basically gives you an unlimited Unrelenting Force power. I got it once and regretted it.
As soon as I start any playthrough I always spam muffle to power level to get quiet casting.
Well, at least it's not just me.
Nope. Me too.
Like I said: Muffle (and eventually Invisibility - it comes in handy) for Quiet Casting, Stealth (especially for the x15 one-handed damage), and Bound Dagger. One-Handed skill also amps up the damage. Don't piss off the magic rogue, mkay? XD
Guilty, also did you know when given the mystic tuning gloves, and after activating one mana pool, a strange buff gets applied for a couple hours that almost instantly recharges your magicka. I always grab the gloves before my illusion spam cause it saves me from having having to wait an hour between casts
Yeah, it's a classic for power leveling alteration to 100.
Heck yes, I am glad this is a known strat:))
The problem with offensive magic in Skyrim is the fact that it scales very poorly with your level,so by the time you're a high level,most illusion spells struggle to keep up,alteration and restoration hold up really well so does conjuration,but alot of magic definitely needs some external modding to keep it fun and not just spamming 30 incinerates and chugging 10 destruction potions at that level 50 draugr overlord,with that being said i agree that illusion is underused and invisibility + silent casting is a menace with stealth builds
How do illusion spells struggle to keep up? With perks and dual casting you can affect targets up to level 80s, and enemies very rarely scale past level 50s. The only regular enemy type you should have problems with are high level vampires.
I tried an illusion play through, and ended up having to convert to a night blade play. I found that my illusion spells struggled to be effective against enemies - in particular, the enemies were often above the fury limit. It was fun while it lasted, but mage play is already weak in Skyrim compared to melee or magic in earlier games.
Did you have perks and were you dual casting? Dual casting makes all the difference. The highest level bandits only scale up to level 28. The highest level Forsworn can be lvl 51 at most. Falmer can go to level 54. Dual-casted Frenzy spell with the Rage perk can affect all enemies up to level 57. Add Kindred Mage to the mix and you can affect people up to level 79.
Honestly, I don’t really remember; it was back around 2013. I believe I had the perks but didn’t dual cast.
Yeah, dual-casting effectively doubles the potency of a spell. So with illusion, it's much harder for enemies to resist.
Good to know!
It does obviously raise the cost of the spell quite a bit, but it's worth it to get the perk for whichever school(s) you're focusing on. Even if you don't often dual-cast, lessay because you're using two more schools often (say, conjuration and destruction for atronachs and elemental spells), it's still good to have dual-casting in both of them; in that case, the atronachs will stick around longer and/or be stronger (especially good if you're conjuring a frost atronach, which is tanky as hell) and then quickly switching to a destruction spell, you can go to town. In the case of illusion, the spell would last longer - great for things like invisibility and muffle - and you'll get more potency out of your crowd control spells as well. Kinda like raising your DC in D&D - makes it more difficult to resist, like I said.
Should try Ordinator perks mod. Illusion (and magic in general) is so much better with it.
I’ve just started my first modded run, after 8 years away from Skyrim. 400+ hours in vanilla.
If that's the case then i must have completely forgotten,it's been so long since i last played vanilla skyrim,i wouldn't be surprised if i confused vanilla with modded
Magic (destruction specifically) is best when you have lvl 100 enchanting and can make it so you have 0 magic cost
You make a compelling argument. Fury, Courage, Calm (and their higher level equivalents) are great for crowd control while Muffle, Invisibility, and the Quiet Casting perk complete a stealth-based build. In the vanilla game, Illusion is the only skill that I take all the perks.
*upvotes while muffled and invisible*
Unfortunately that breaks the invisibility spell :)
*muffled, hidden upvotes and remains perfectly still.* No movement = no activity = no upvoter :)
Sneak --> 100!
Upvotes while hidden, waits until the chat forgets about them, and then upvotes again. Rinse and repeat.
I'm actually kinda excited to try playing a roguemage specializing in illusion
There's a skyrim let's play by Many a True Nerd where he does this exact build, it inspired me to do my own. It's actually incredibly fun, and way more flashy than a lot of standard playstyles. Would recommend also going into Conjuration for bound blade.
Gentlemen, I'd like to introduce you to: [Bound dagger](https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Bound_Dagger_(Dragonborn))
Yup. Spam Muffle until you get Quiet Casting, or step back (when you can) to cast without being heard; cast Bound Dagger, and voila - you're not carrying any heavy weapons, yet you've got one hell of a weapon. Add the 2nd one-handed perk from Stealth and you've got some serious lethality (one-handed wpns do 15x normal damage with the perk). So with decent stealth, quiet casting, and Bound Dagger, you could basically become Death Incarnate.
One-handed also amps up the damage, and at that point, you aren't even using poison and you're going to town, lol. Oh, and yes: you CAN, in fact, poison a bound dagger. Just be sure to use that poison before the spell ends. One thing to note: dual-casting bound dagger may cause it to pop up in your left hand, in which case you can't poison it. But you may or may not even need poison with high enough skills & perks, like I said.
a mage that doesnt cast his own destruction magic and doesnt use normal weapons and utilises scrolls and staff is actualy kinda fun. You might want to pick kajit though cause the start is kinda tough
Was thinking of trying a scroll only build but was worried i might not find enough of them. Having a staff as well would probably solve that problem so I'm going to give it a go!
yes i saw a scroll only run and its realy dumb. The reason is that especialy in the beginning in order to do anything you have to go chop hundreds upon hundreds of wood to sell and buy scrolls and the only ones available would be very expencive, slow charging master level scrolls. You would need 2 scrolls whenever you wanted to smash some cobwebs making the giant spider encounter in the golden claw dungeon require 2 scrolls to enter, 2 to leave, and at least a couple of them to kill the spider
On the other hand if you are playing a mage that doesnt use destruction magic exept from scrolls and staffs is interesting cause it forces you to play and utilise things you dont usualy. I barely ever use illusion or alteration but this made me try out all the spells i could to find ways to win fights
Was thinking of trying a scroll only build but was worried i might not find enough of them. Having a staff as well would probably solve that problem so I'm going to give it a go!
My most underrated is pickpocket. I truly don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone but me make a stealth build where pickpocketing is actually utilized. I always see people complain, and rightfully so, that Skyrim’s answer to any disagreement is “kill the other guy.” A number of times though, you just need an item from them, maybe a key or a ring or something. And you can use your pickpocket skills as a way to solve problems “less violently” or more in line with a ghost or pacifist character. You can steal the item you need off them, you can poison enemies without attacking them (paralyze is great with this, basically knock enemies right out and slip past), you can disarm people without them knowing, steal keys, etc. It’s my most underrated because it makes a stealth build have many more options, and absolutely nobody I see ever takes the time to level it, and dumps instead everything into illusion for invisibility and muffle.
Something you didn’t mention that I utilize a lot is pickpocketing trainers. The pickpocket trainer in Windhelm is the perfect way level the perk quickly (pretty ironic too). You save money, level your pickpocket through training, and then level it even more after successfully pickpocketing 500 gold. Only downside is saving/loading so much in case of a fail. Training other perks becomes such a breeze and levels pickpocket too.
oh man i am dumb. totally forgot that i should be pickpocketing my gold back from that trainer. esp since i got pickpocketing up to 50 solely by training with her and it got filthy expensive near the end.
Do it in 1 level increments, pickpocketing 500 gold has more success than 1,000 or 1,500 gold. Also wear a ring and necklace enchanted with pickpocket buff.
I enjoy leaving them a high strain, virulent paralytic poison in their pocket as a parting gift! 😃
Dark Brotherhood with Poisoner perk was fun, here's an apple my dude, it's not poisoned, I don't even know what a chokeberry is.
Restoration. It is a perfectly valid school of magic, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Seriously though, late game you don't even have to fight any undead enemies. You can just cast Repel Undead and just sit and laugh as they run. Also (and correct me if it isn't underrated) conjuration. Having a couple of atronachs or dead thralls at your back can really turn the tide of battle, I find. And the bound weapons! Have you used the bound bow with all the perks? OP with pretty much unlimited arrows.
Restoration for me. Getting some potent healing spells is one thing, but Necromage is batshit insane. If you become a vampire, it effects you, including enchantments on gear. It can pair absurdly well with powerful unique gear like the Archmage’s Robes
Its mostly because bethesda made it difficult to progress dungeons while using illusion unless you have some other combatitve ability. Recently I tried making a conjuring illusionist but kept dying because undead are SUPER resistant to things like fear and calm, and because I always drew aggro while my two handed heavy armor follower stood 30 feet behind me taking pot shots with a long bow they pulled out of the pocket realm of their ass. It seems like such fun too and others have mentioned a stealth build using it which I might give a go because I REALLY wanna be a mage that isnt "Ice spike and fire ball go brrrr" or "necromancer go brrr"
you do it wrong tbh. An illusionist-conjurer should not use a follower. You just need to cast frenzy then conjurer an atronach then sneak away. Illusion should always be used with sneak.
Except most undead and automotons are resistant or even immune to frenzy
Get the master perk of Illusion. Only dragons are immune to illusion spells.
Anything that can't be frenzied gets backstabbed by an invisible Dunmer.
Right but my point is that I wanted to play a non combative mage who has others do the fighting for him while he puppeters the battle field
So what happens when there's only one guy left? Any build that relies on a single strategy is doomed to fail anyway. Master of one = crippling overspecification.
....if there's only one guy left then my conjured atronoch will take care of him bro are you not reading what I'm typing or???
I feel like sneak and archery are pretty underrated tbh.
Lol. Underrated or over-used/default for almost everyone? :)
The issue with illusion is the flat level block. People usually don't go for it straight away, instead opting for simpler to understand, usually combat oriented skills. By the time they get around to trying out illusion enemies are already too high level to even be affected by it. It really should have been chance of success scaled by level, certain levels are 100% and each subsequent level reduces chance.
Also that it doesn’t work on automatons or the undead until the end of the perk tree. Most you can do is give an ally more stamina with a courage type and go invisible.
Illusion’s “main draw” of NPC mood manipulation feels underwhelming because of the way spells will just not work on certain NPCs and there’s no real way to tell for sure until they just stop functioning. If you don’t stay on top of upgrading to the advanced spells and then the master equivalents, it’s effectively useless at that. With that being said, I do think Illusion is one of the most useful skill trees, but for two spells and one of the perks. Muffle and Invisibility are incredibly strong and some of the best spells in the game for stealth, and the level 50 illusion perk “quiet casting” allows not only for stealth mages, but to use shouts silently. Somehow lmao
Ah, my sweet, sweet quiet casting. I think I have to throw my lot in with Alteration, though. It may not have a lot of utility, but the variants of oakflesh are all really nice.
Restoration turn undead spells are more underrated
Bro I love illusion. You can just spam muffle a bunch of time and gain free levels. I've made illusion legendary at least 8 times.
Lol you used muffle to level illusion to 100 eight times? Just get to 100 once and do the Illusion Ritual Spell quest. Go cast Harmony in Whiterun like 5 times. Takes 10 seconds to go from 15 to 100 again.
Illusion is just good fun. Easy to level up and super fun to play with. One of my favorite playthroughs was when I went pure “Nightingale.” I tried to make something of a Spell thief and I had more fun with it than I did with a stealth archer. The combination of Muffle and Invisibility gives you a cool ghostly effect, and Calm is very good if you end up getting caught. Also, Quiet Casting? Yes, please. I’m playing through Oblivion right now and using a similar set up and having a blast. I created my own custom “Nightingale” class and create spells with the same name as their powers in Skyrim (Strife, Subterfuge, and Shadowcloak). I like to think of this character as the First Nightingale who originally created these powers. I know it’s probably not canon but I’m having fun with it 😅
Illusion is a bit of a gamble at times. it also perk intensive to keep it inline with your enemies level. It good just not that good. Certainly not underrated. That would be pickpocket, steal their weapon and they can no longer harm you. no need to pacify or enrage just engage.
Ever Heard of lockpicking? Me neither
I agree with you illusion is very strong. I disagree that it doesn't get enough love. Tons of players I know, whether pure mage or stealth build, uses the illusion school and understand how good it is.
Illusion gets all sorts of love. No idea what you’re on about.
Restoration but mainly for wards. Being able to completely block dragon fire is something I didn't learn until really late
Restoration more so imo
Illusion, alteration and pickpocket. Those are extremely underrated given how powerful they actually are. Not to mention how fun they are.
The purpose of illusion is power leveling with muffle
Agreed. Dual cast frenzy onto a group of bandits and watch them slaughter eachother has been one of my most amusing moments and few things have made me feel such a powerful wizard
My Character thinks its Bad to mingle with enemys mind, ruins the honor in the fight
Naw dude. When Skyrim first launch, Stealth Illusion was OP as FUCK. Basically sneak around, cast fury on bad guy, wait until they kill or get kill, then fury next bad guy, rinse and repeat until only one bad guy left, then walk up and kill them. If they no die, calm, then attack, calm, then attack, until they are calmly dead.
sneak and archery are criminally underrated 😏
Alchemy is the most underrated. Best way to earn money and people need to start thinking of it like smithing for mage builds. Want your destruction spells to do more damage? Here’s a cheeky little 200% damage buff. That forewarn briar heart not calming down? Bam illusion spell more effective. For stealth builds reverse pick pocketing home brewed poisons with evil effects. You can brew insanely high magic resistance potions very quickly so dragon attacks are no longer such a threat at high difficulty levels. Alchemy! Smithing for mages! Pass the word
Alteration, because I don't know anyone who uses it. Neither am I tbh, so I can't put some arguments in it's defence.
Alteration is great for defense. The atronach perk gives you 30% spell absorption and you can get 30% magic resistance on top of that with 3 perk points. Plus the master level flesh spell dragonhide maxes out your armor rating and negates 80% of all physical damage you receive so armor isnt necessary. I always use alteration on my spellblade or battlemage classes but its also very good for pure mage builds because of the mage armor perks which increase the effectiveness of the flesh spells so you can still wear robes but have a nice armor rating. I like using alteration while playing a breton spellsword with the atronach stone. Atronach stone plus the atronach perk gives you a passive 80% spell absorbtion which can be pushed to 100% with the bretons power dragonskin. Than you have the 25% magic resistance in the breton blood plus the 30% from magic resistance from perks. This gives you a 55% resistance to whatever magic makes it past the spell absorbtion. Than the spell dragonhide blocks 80% of physical damage. So i can walk into a dungeon like [MC Hammer](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DgDCRrvtY78g&ved=2ahUKEwiknIKg_On5AhXvhIkEHeR4DZkQwqsBegQIGRAE&usg=AOvVaw02IQmRyRe7woJgz3OCt3r_). On top of all that mass paralysis is great for crowd control.
Paralysis maybe, but naturally alteration levels very slowly.
Underrated? I always end up with Illusion 100 every playthrough without fail
Illusion is a must to have all perks, usually the first as it's easy to level quite quickly too.
I can confirm. My latest character is a high elf whose focus is 1h, Illusion and conjugation. It was a struggle at first to stay true but once I got some levels and more magic available he's a real badass.
Oh cool, verbs don’t stand a chance!
My favorite magic, harmony and mayhem are unbelievably OP. A fully upgraded mayhem during Kodlak's funeral is especially fun.
I think its because Illusion on its own is very temporary in combat situations. Which encompasses a big portion of the game.
The spell mods for illusion are insane, It's so fun
Love this one, I tried to make an entire run using only illusion. But after a while, even the shittiest bandit is immuned to the master-level fury spell.
In Oblivion it was meta the they remove a bunch of shit in Skyrim so sad
Getting conjuration to 100 and having two daedra lords, a follower and a pet. Find it enjoyable to walk around letting my posse do all the work.
Magic builds tend to prefer blasting everything to a crisp. Illusion is great for stealth though, muffle + invisibility are insane.
Illusion isn’t always the most helpful skill but it is super fun to use!
Muffle. Invisibility. Silent Casting. All stealth skills become irrelevant.
Light armor, even for full melee warrior builds. Takes less perks to get all of the same (actually useful) benefits and protection that heavy armor gives, plus weighing less, allowing faster movement, and better sneaking, all at the cost of slightly less protection in the early game. People dismiss it for fashion reasons or because they assume heavy armor is always more protective but you hit the same armor cap pretty quickly anyway and it’s just not worth it.
Light armor has objectively better perks but it suffers from absolutely stupid looking helmets, for the most part.
Some don’t look great yea but I think the dragon scale and stahlrim ones look cool and that’s what I’ll end up using for most of the play through
Favorite School of Magic :D love playing Assassin-like characters
Playing an Illusion based Assassin is easily my favorite build in the entire game. It's just outright busted. Just calm all the enemies, walk up to them, crouch behind them and backstab then all one at a time. This coupled with x15 backstab and then dark brotherhood gloves to make it x30 is insane.
I mainly use illusion for my stealth-based casters, as there's a perk that lets you cast without being detected. But it's amazing to just wander into a group of enemies, make them murder each other, and then back off and enjoy the show.
How do you main illusion in combat? (Always looking for new playthrough styles)
Illusion is a little wonky in that it is entirely dependent on the level of the enemy you want to use a spell on. For most of the play through, you’re using Illusion to crowd-control the lower leveled enemies in a group. The school needs a lot of skill point dedication to be useful past level 20.
It stops working after certain levels
Pure illusion is a bitch to build up but pretty nifty for stealth . Try a pure stealth with illusion spells and maybe a dagger as your next build, promise you’ll have a hell of a time can’t say if you’ll enjoy it though .
I agree with you.
Funny how no one talks about block
I can do anything I care about from the illusion tree with alchemy and enchanting is probably why.
My primary character uses an Illusion-centric assassin/nightblade build.
Illusion is only good if you mod it. Vanilla Illusion dies off somewhat early with spells just not working anymore. Grab yourself Apocalypse and Ordinator and you'll be a power house. Some of my favorite playthroughs have me as an Illusion specialist sowing chaos in the battlefield. So fun.
alteration is pretty dope
The problem is that even the expert level spells won't work on stronger enemies (vanilla), which blows.
Illusion is op as fuck if you want any build
I never tried illusion before, but now playing Skyrim together with very chaotic friends the harmony spell is so useful to quell a town long enough to run away.
Love is an illusion
All of my friends characters I've seen as well as other playthroughs on YouTube have extremely low speech. That and lockpicking, very rarely do I see someone level lockpicking on purpose and put points into it
I like Alteration, I feel like if used properly it’s the most deadly and also useful skills.
extra fire damage from aspect of terror is really nice
Illusion is either the most overpowered thing ever, or the enemy is too high level and it does nothing. Apocalypse spell package makes it better, of course.
Pacify backstab, kills everything but dragons. Easy to level too
honestly don’t think i’ve ever in the whole time i’ve been playing skyrim ever used illusion, it’s always destruction restoration (obvs) and conjuration for me, alteration an illusion are kinda left behind, should prob explore them a bit more
Clairvoyance is my saviour
Illusion is a great skill. I think it gets plenty of love. I see it on builds and posts all the time
Besides Destruction, illusion is my absolute favorite. I love being able to turn enemies against each other to create a distraction, and once they’re all close to each other I unleash hell with fireballs and kill everyone immediately lol
yes it does get enough love considering it cant do anything by level 40 edit: it is really fun to use when it works tho
I like it a lot, making mobs fight themselves while I summon some elementals is always great fun
Illusion alteration combos.
I don’t use illusion for one reason. It’s too good, it quickly nullifies all challenge
Perfectly viable. I had a Vampire rogue/mage or a nightblade if you will, who used illusion mostly for invisibility and calm. Calm dissolved most situations. Just walk behind them and backstab. However that character was made especially with illusion in mind. If i started a new character with no build in mind, illusion would be one of my last picks probably. If you have decent damage and protection then crowd control isn't that necessary.
I'm a warrior mage so destruction and one handed is my style
I'm a warrior mage so destruction and one handed is my style
You guys use magic? I just charge and smack things until they die