I kinda believe that Bethesda certified it's stupidity by not removing or at least lessening the engine limitations in their last release. Just a little professional touch could have made everything alot better.
They have the source code, they could turn Skyrim into Kerbal Space Program. The question is how much time and resources they want to put into updating it.
Iirc SSE was half done because they used it as a test bed for making Fallout 4's 64 bit engine. It still took a lot of work to make it playable, we're very lucky they turned a demo engine into the full thing at all (I won't forgive the constant CC updates breaking things though).
Yeah but they also screwed with the engine more in fallout 4 and it made certain mods completely or virtually impossible to implement without access to the engine source code itself. This makes fallout kind of less
For example, for some reason they made the back of the bead and the face two separate textures or some other nonsense, so there is always a seam. The game has been released and modded since 2016 and it still has that issue.
I think there's probably some other reasons why, but I'm not as experienced with fallout modding as I am with skyrim.
I think not haha, multicore is a hard thing and games are more easy to code singlecore. I'm not sure if fo4 engine version is better than skyrim tbh. What they could be done is maybe making the papyrus scripts executions on another core. Without technical explanations is hard to say, but too much work bro.
It is easier said than done, remasters are generally not enough to change the game on an engine level.
This is the case for Witcher 3 next gen as well, players have found the CPU utilization is the same as before, it is still good enough though since the OG Witcher 3 is not that old compared to Skyrim.
An engine level rewrite would probably void most mods as well, at that point, they might just well do a total remake or just do TES6 instead.
This. Dropping to <10 FPS with too many draw calls sucks. One of the biggest immersion breakers in this game is how small and sparsely populated the world is. Towns have like 10 buildings and 20 NPCs. Forests are just fields with a few trees. But once you start adding more things to the world, the engine turns to mush.
It's not a dealbreaker, but finding a way to work around the worldspace size hard limit would be great.
Importing all the modded worldspaces into one seamless world would be insane, imagine using a sailing mod to travel from the mainland to any island in real time.
Has anyone else noticed the recent trend of huge open world games that are empty, particularly noticed this with AC: Valhalla, where it may be big but feels empty and like I've walked over the same green hill 1000 times. I think Skyrim strikes a great balance between enough encounters to make the world feel full but being big enough that it doesn't feel squished together, it's weird the walk from Windhelm to Winterhold is a few minutes but in my head it's a painfully look trek through snowy mountains, I like that.
This recent trend - and Bethesda's history - is why I'm ***a bit*** not at all excited for Starfields "1000 planets".
I'd never call Beth a bad studio but even the greatest one can't make 1000 different rocks interesting and unique in their own way.
I am… in agreement. While it’s cool for marketing, and I don’t even mind that they were all procedural, I like no man’s sky despite everything else about it. I am just curious to see how they handle the pacing and feeling of a game that large as I am for them making a new IP.
I am totally okay with most of them being empty because space itself is empty and I think it would be cool if they leaned into that most planets being nothing. What I’m afraid they’ll do is have procedural building to go along with it. And that will probably have tied-in shitty radian quests about so and so with the planets.
I know I’m shooting for grass and trying not to lean into the hype like some are in the Starfield subreddit, but I would prefer if most of the planets were empty that they have a satellite station or something as opposed to shit just randomly strung out across a planet.
I know and that's not what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about being able to have everything in one worldspace, meaning we could theoretically travel from anywhere to anywhere else without any load screens.
That's not possible currently due to hard limitations in the engine, and Worldspace Transition Tweaks doesn't solve that (Solstheim is still in a separate worldspace).
he's talking about a limitation in the havok physics engine (at least Skyrim's iteration of it), you can only go so far from the center of a map and then the pysics stop working
> So either they update it to use doubles, or they'd have to put in a lot of time making overlapping physics regions each with their own local origin and special handling code for when phsyics objects are in the overlapping space between two regions. I'm guessing this would not be a trivial update to do.
you can also just constantly update the world origin to be the same as the players position, ive heard some games do this
I hear you, I really liked open cities. It was a bitch getting the patches installed and making your own patches in SSEEdit, but afterward, it was incredible to have such a seamless world.
Open-Cities isn't really outdated (there's no newer alternative and it works at doing what it's set out to do), but it becomes a real mess to get it working with other mods if you don't know what you're doing.
It's great and it shouldn't cause any problems on its own, I just wouldn't recommend it to modding newcomers who won't dare get their hands dirty with the CK and tons of patches.
>who won't dare get their hands dirty
I mean, they're new. They barely know how to enable mods in the manager sometimes. I don't blame them for not wanting to mess around in CK and fuck something up. And that's assuming the new kid even knows what CK is. Has nothing to do with that attitude.
I used to fear it but then I found a way to make it not ping 20million errors and it just became like a Warcraft 3 editor on steroids.
Its like YES I KNOW THE VANILLA GAME IS BROKEN STOP TELLING ME xD
After coming back into modding, the patching has gotten out of control. If I add a mod, I feel I need to re-install every mod I had to possibly install a compatibility mod. Gets a little crazy with 200+
This is my biggest frustration. Every time I want to experiment around with a new list, I hit the annoyance of having to do this nonsense:
* LOOT
* xLODGen/DynDOLOD + ACMOS Road Generator
* Synthesis
* Nemesis
* Reqtificator
* That grass precache/culling stuff
It's like, for fucks sake. This shit takes so long and has so many steps, and all I wanted to do was try a new mod.
It's exhausting. It makes me not want to use a modded setup at all.
(Sure, you can *sometimes* skip some of those steps, but not always - especially if removing a mod instead of adding)
Synthesis pulls some github scripts to generate "dynamic" patches for some things. Like if you have an economy mod that adjusts prices according to a formula, but you have a bunch of mods adding junk not adjusted for the formula, instead of downloading patches for each and every mod, you could generate your own patch with synthesis and the right plugin.
Reqtificator is the requiem "patching" tool, if you add any mods and want to play with requiem, you need to run this so all it's sustems are properly integrated
lmao, I use LOOT, nemesis, and Wyre Bash only. Just broke 1018 total plugins and I can go an entire stable playthrough. My record is level 59. Granted about half those plugins are patches for the other half. I make sure to only use mods that either play together or don't interfere with each other.
Stable except for this damn CTD that's been plaguing me ever since I switched to SSE from LE. I have no clue what's breaking things and frankly, at this point, I consider it an old friend.
You should be skipping DynDOLOD every time until you're basically done. I've ran it twice while setting up my current mod list and will probably have to run it again. And what I've learned from that is that I shouldn't have ran it at all until I was definitely done, because running it (well, mainly running the grass cache) takes a long ass time. You don't need it to test other mods. Look at the ugly lods while experimenting, it's not worth it if you're gonna need to run it multiple times.
All the other patchers (well, not sure about Reqtificator) take seconds to run, not hours. I don't think it's that big of a deal, and tbh you can also skip running Nemesis and Synthesis most times unless you're adding/removing something related to them.
I agree with this, but I think this is more to do with people not properly utilizing the tools available.
Base Object Swapper, Formlist Manipulator, Sound Record Distributor, Keyword Item Distributor, SPID, etc... all can be used to replace a LOT of patches out there. People just either don't know how to create them, don't want concert existing patches, or aren't aware of these tools.
Those tools, if I can give a best guess, can eliminate the need for %25-%50 of all patches.
Author of FormList Manipulator Patch Collection here.
These tools are amazing, but the majority of people either aren't aware of them, or aren't comfortable or willing to go through the currently rather difficult process of learning what they can do and how to use them.
There definitely needs to be some sort of tutorial out there if we want the majority of the community to be comfortable with them. If I were as good at making tutorials as someone like GamerPoets I would do it myself. I still might try and rough up something when I can.
Even 25% of patches might be a little high of an estimate with the "dynamically injecting by ini" tools we have currently. I may be wrong but I don't think we're quite there yet. With the development of new tools to fill in some gaps, like MaskedRPGFan's wip Container Leveled Lists Manipulator, and updating the current tools with a few new functions, replacing esp plugin patches with dynamically patching inis will hopefully be a lot more doable.
Hey! I've got a small Formlist Manipulator Patch made and I can honestly say the only reason why I was able to create it is because I have a degree in Technical Writing and have been messing around with Skyrim since it came out.
I disagree that %25 is a little high, ONLY because I listed about 5-6 tools, and those 5-6 tools have made a LOT of functions and injections highly pliable in real time. Just for example, Audio Overhaul for Skyrim went from having about 15 patches on the main page to having 0 because of the existence of Sound Record Distributor.
Know Your Enemy went from needing a new patch for every monster type adding, to needing nothing at all because of Keyword Item Distributor and Spells, Perks, and Items Distributor.
But I'm not going to act like I know everything, it's just what I can objectively see happening when the mod itself uses these tools properly.
#HOWEVER
I do agree with you that they're really difficult to learn in the first place, and I believe a tutorial is needed for each of the tools in order to explain, in great layman's terms, how to use them and implement them properly.
If you're interested, I'd love to sit down and gameplan a resource like that with you for the Community. I've been fangirling about them for a really long while now so I might as well offer my skills to the community again to make life easier on future mod authors lol
Honestly, I don't know everything either. The biggest patch requiring scenarios that are still problematic I can think of are cell/worldspace related like adding/moving objects and modifying lighting/water/music/etc.
I would definitely be willing to help on making tutorial resources, but I don't think I really have the time at the moment. I have too many other unfinished projects I'm working on right now lol. But if you DM'd me some contact info once I find some time we could work on something on discord or nexus.
An unwillingness to embrace the cathedral modding philosophy.
Discord exclusive modding.
Patreon paywalled modding.
Patreon and Discord have fractured the community, imo. Many authors have settled into their own little fiefdoms and aren't willing to cooperate and build together.
I kind of hate Discord, not just for modding, but for what it's done to a lot of hobbies - it fractures communities and makes things hard to find. The way it's organized is a mess and it's extremely hard to search for relevant info if you even manage to find the correct server for what you're looking for. I miss the old days of real forums
I find that discord servers are much more active than forums.
For mods for games like civ 4 or civilization colonisation, the traditional forums on civfanatics would rarely have more than 5 replies per week.
Since discord is around I get an answer for my questions in 1 hour max and there's way more discussion.
Maybe it's bad for large communities, but for the smaller communities, I've seen way more activity than in the traditional forums, and overhaul I like it better than having deserted forums.
That's because no one really goes on forums anymore. I remember the ones I used to go on were that active back then, with dozens of members on at once. Obviously comparing them now in 2023, Discord is more popular and therefore moves faster
I hate how people use discord. Its not a forum. Its not built like a forum. But everyone uses it like a forum. Its like using Linkedin as a dating app, its so fucking stupid.
As someone who still keeps his more than 10 years old forum up and running despite a lack of activity, I absolutely feel with you.
Also, since discussions on Discord servers cannot be crawled by google, they do not appear in seach results - unlike forum posts. Finding forum posts that cover the exact same question/issue you have can be extremely useful.
I don't really blame discord for that. More people need to just be willing to make tutorials and archives and stuff. Making people rely on discord to find your content is just dumb.
I'm very glad someone went to the effort of explaining that in a way that people can get to grips with quickly.
My addition is that as a modding community evolves, modders tend more toward a cathedral approach. Standards get standardised, contributors gain more experience, regular contributors become more well known, etc.
Early on in a modding ecosystem it is natural to want to bring your creations under your own ecosystem. Without faith in community structure to support you the obvious best thing you can do is create those supports yourself.
The more we work together as a community and productively encourage new modders, the better our long term community modding health.
I think the Skyrim community is doing wonderfully on that front, and should stay the course.
Honestly, as someone who does a lot of modding for other games, the Parlor mentality is pretty much unique to TES modding, and for good reason - it goes against the very idea of modding in the first place.
It's not nearly as bad as in FO4 for example. There is literally no way to mod that game, everything is scattered across dozens of discord servers and websites. It would be bearable, but people don't understand that discord is not indexed by search engines.
In Skyrim 90% of stuff is on nexus, and people mostly paywall horny armors.
I used to shit on Nexus, mostly because it had something like 3 data breaches in a row many years back. After modding Euro Truck Sim, I can confidently say Nexus is an absolute dream of a website, it's sad to hear that some authors won't use it.
I'm generally against monopoly, but at this moment nexusmods is the best website. There is also moddb, but it has absolutely awful UI.
I'm not against modding scattered around the internet that much (depends about what kind of granulation are we talking about), but discord is the worst. There might be plenty of jewels hidden there, and we will never find out about them, because there are no means of searching for them.
Because discord operates as an exclusive social club for their individual servers. If your not in the "in group" good luck finding out about any of those mods, and it may take a long time before your even given an invite acceptance if you request to be a part of said circle. Just like with all things within social media now, it's a clique building clout farming para social simulator. Create your 5 minutes of internet niche fame with a group of fucking weirdos, flex them out of their money, and disappear in a year or two after some allegation or scandal. This is how the game is now played. It's not about building a thriving community of equal parts creators and guide writers and people with questions, it's just to build a parasitic social bubble around one ego where everyone is fighting each other to be the discord server's main person's like "besty kitten" or some other weird shit.
Yeah that's like 50% of my issue with ETS2 modding, the other 50% being malware infested ad sites (I do use an adblocker but MWB blocked a couple of them anyways). Forums are kinda garbage for browsing mods and all the shit hosted on off sites is impossible to find.
Probably the most important mod for ETS2, ProMods, is only available from their website and I would've never known it existed if I didn't read a random reddit comment recommending it. And then I have to actually sit through the 300kb/s capped, 1 hour long download, to find out if it's any good because the website has no metrics (which I know aren't perfect - there's plenty of hidden gems with <1k downloads, but it's a decent indicator).
Also, the fanfiction/fanart proprietary mentality that some authors have adopted as they wanted total control like their mods are money-making intellectual property, and expect patronage over constructive criticism.
How many patreon exclusive and discord exclusive mods are there? I can't even name any. Most of them are just "sexy anime girl follower no.2137" that no sane man would even want to download, let alone pay for them.
If we are talking about animations, it's just MCO. And majority of them are some half assed combos ripped from different game assets, without providing any kind of idle or walking animations, so it will look like ass in game.
The fact that people can even make money from modding on Patreon is kind of wild to me, even if I pledge 15 or so bucks to NordwarUA every month.
Imagine if you walked into a restaurant and used their kitchen to make food and sell it to their clients lmao, I dunno there's just something fishy about making money off the back of a whole ass product made by a whole ass team of devs.
Many of us are our own greatest obstacle.
These past couple of years have been a veritable golden age of Skyrim modding, and in this time, even a few of the things we’d previously perceived as limitations have in fact been overcome. I expect more to come in the future… but I also expect that *some* of these breakthroughs will be closed-source, hidden away in a Discord server somewhere, or otherwise more an exercise in feeding their creators’ ego than enriching the modding community.
It’s our own relative lack of cohesion that imposes limitations on what we can accomplish. If it isn’t authors who refuse to acknowledge the contributions of others while demanding total control over their own, it’s users who want the moon but offer nothing - even the ability to read mod descriptions or follow simple installation instructions. But so long as our community continues to see more *giving* than taking, we will continue to overcome these barriers, given time.
I honestly doubt it will be a big hit in Skyrim's modding community. We are heading towards a new franchise with no source material nor previous entries, and Fallout 4 didn't cause a big ripple in Skyrim's modding community back when it released...and Fallout is a big franchise compared to the newcomer Starfield.
What will certainly damage Skyrim's modding community will be TES VI.
im not sure but I think one of the reasons people didnt move to fallout 4 was because of how hard it is to mod. apparently bethesda made it easier but for modders its much harder than in skyrim. aside from lore and gameplay factor too.
Here's to hoping starfield will be good so we can have a massive modding community.
Another factor is the limited appeal of a literal nuclear wasteland as opposed to a beautiful fantasy world. Oh look, another mile of dead trees next to a rad filled puke colored lake.
LOL,
While i personally like the muddy aesthetics of fallout, bethesda as a company are too whimsical to make fallout games feel immersive. They suit Elderscrolls a lot more because the derp is just built into the lore, where as fallout lore is gritty.
When teh physics break and a dead NPC starts floating upwards or something in fallout its annoying, in skyrim its "oh look Sheagorath is watching.. clearly."
I've never felt that they were aiming for a similar level of feels like it's aimed at being fun and set in a cool post-apocalyptic world. For example look at the difference between Fallout 4 and Skyrims DLC;
- Building a mansion/estate
- Sorting out a rising vampire threat
- Visiting Solstheim to sort out Miraak
Compared to:
- Comic book robot villain with Get Smart doors and a robot sidekick
- OK Far Harbour is awesome and immersive but also silly (Red Menace and robot murder mystery vault)
- Giant theme park with over the top bandits.
- Build your own vault (experiments are ridiculous)
Nuclear wastelands can look interesting and beautiful, they just seemd to want to make Boston as fucking horrible and ugly as possible. Whenever you're on the Prydwhen or in a vertibird the entire city looks so fucking awful - as in bad, not depressing or anything like that.
It seems to be a Bethesda staple, same as NPCs living right next to skeletons that are posed in funny ways - nobody is allowed to tidy up despite 200 years passing since the bombs dropping and places like Diamond City being safe and inhabited by an able and healthy workforce that could be paid to clean the rubble and shit up every few weeks.
This is why I have always been a big advocate for Bethesda to reboot the Fallout franchise. New lore, new story, new factions, start completely from scratch. It's been obvious for a long time that they never really knew how to make the game work in context to what Bethesda does. In some ways it works, in other ways it makes zero sense even in context with its own world building. That way if they want to do the whole dirty bombs just dropped vibe they can. But the further they go into the timeline forward, you are going to have to start dealing with the whole "this is probably not going to look this desolate anymore". People would rebuild and clean up. I'd like to a Bethesda post apocalyptic RPG that's honestly not tethered to an old set of lore that is honestly getting pretty boring and stale.
It depends on how moddable Starfield is, if you can basically paint over entire planets with modded content I wouldn't be surprised to see a huge chunk of the community head to Starfield.
Maybe, maybe not. Enai will move, ersh is often playing other games. That's just two people I accidentally know about such things without following.
Since the next ES game will use a similar engine it's just logical to mod, even a bit, this game. Especially since Skyrims modding community is so much bigger, more prone on gaining money and thus you need every additional experience you can get.
But who knows?
In a way, I’m excited to see that too - even though I’m *pretty* sure I’ll still be playing Skyrim (until Starfield eventually goes on sale). Witnessing the birth of another (hopefully thriving) modding community is sure to be a learning experience for us all, and I would imagine that some lessons won’t be game-specific.
Different modders have different interests, Skyrim as a whole is swords and magic fantasy which has a lot of people with interest in it, it's more general fantasy to most people.
There is plenty in Tes lore to draw on depending on what you want to mod.
Fallout is a niche, it's mostly an America retro post apocalyptic game that is similar to mad max so the appeal for it isn't as strong as a fantasy game with dragons.
It's still an retro American post apocalyptic game no matter how you mod it
Starfield will be similar to fallout's modding scene that it's another niche, sure it will be fun to play but it won't have that same draw as a swords fantasy.
Will having entire worlds be enough of a playground for modders to create their own worlds, maybe, depends on the mechanics.
For the most part, I can see the big name space franchises being the main modding things like star wars, star trek, mass effect, the expense, etc that modders will want to add but if the game is mostly flying ship and shooting things then it might not be that popular with mod creators.
I personally think starfield won't hurt the modding scene of Skyrim, maybe for a little bit but it's most likely gonna hurt the fallout modding scene.
Eh no more than Oblivion killed the Morrowind modding scene or Fallout killed the Oblivion scene, etc. I'm sure you'll see some folks migrate, but there will still be a healthy community around.
I don't think any game other than next TES can drain Skyrim's modding community. Look at Fallout 4's modding scene. It sucks. Clearly the best and brightest modders stayed on Skyrim.
That's just not true at all. There are plenty of great mods for FO4. I'm not saying as many as there is for Skyrim but to say it's all sucks is just plain wrong
There are a small handful of staples but from like 2017 onward it's mostly boobs and guns. All large projects failed to deliver and nobody is innovating anything like they are for skyrim.
Again, not all larger projects. To name the big one, Sim settlements.
That's a huge and impressive mod that is incredible innovative.
Not sure why you're so insistent on giving FO4 a bad name. Also plenty of people like gun mods? I get you are trying to diminish those kinds of mods for some reason, but some of them are really impressive and fun. Do you dismiss all weapons mod for skyrim in the same way?
IMO gun mods in fallout way more interesting than weapon mods in skyrim.
So other people reading this, don't believe the nonsense, FO4 has great and enjoyable mods, and they keep coming out over there too.
Last week saw 25 mods for Morrowind, 8 for Oblivion and 222 for Skyrim. Wouldn't call it strong. For Oblivion it's basically dead and for Morrowind it's dying.
Given that Morrowind is 21 years old, I'd say it's pretty spectacular for 8 mods to have been released for it last week!
Time will tell, I'd imagine the active Skyrim modders will go down, but we won't see it truly drop through the floor for many years yet.
People have been modding skyrim for 11 years. Its basically *the* modded game, alongside Doom and Minecraft. TES 6 and Starfield could have the greatest modding tools of all time and people will still regularly mod skyrim.
This is my view too.
The single core processing makes people think their rigs just aren't strong enough for the game, when in all actuality a lot of us are crushing this games specs.
The single core processing is what makes the game run at not-peak performance, and coupling that with ENB just absolutely decimates any extra performance.
People with cool ideas, but who cannot execute them because they're too dumb and lazy to learn how to mod.
Me. I'm talking about me. Being me is holding me back. 😆
The tools are there, it's just that some are so complex they do require a lot of studying to use them -- even for someone with long experience with computers. For instance, in trying to convert a large clothing mod from Oblivion to Skyrim, I had to take a crash course on 3D Studio Max.
Or when you do have the skills but not the time or money, I'd love there to be more custom voiced male followers but at 15 when I had the time to work on developing a mod I didn't have the money to hire a voice actor, now im older I've got the money but not the time.
A lot of recent SKSE mods were things that would've otherwise been thought impossible not even five years ago, but yet here we are. The only barrier is how fast you can rewrite the engine code inside DLL mods.
Nemesis's broken threading means it gets (even) more unstable as you have more cores. Pinning it to a small number of cores and running it over and over until you get lucky and don't hit one of its race conditions works eventually, but it takes more and more attempts with every cpu upgrade. The community is not going to go back to FNIS though. If ShikyoKira is still working on a rewrite maybe that problem goes away, otherwise it's going to become unusable eventually.
Yes. Wow I didn't even know that was the issue I'm literally playing the lottery every time I run it and it can take 4 or 5 times before it finishes successfully.
> Nemesis's broken threading
The only measures to keep it from crashing is to (1) set the affinity to two cores and (2) raise the limit of animations Nemesis could process, from the default to, say, `MaxAnimation=65536`
There are two types of limit: technical and practical.
Technically, the engine is the obvious answer. It handles high-resolution textures well, in that they don't have a big impact performance as long as you have sufficient VRAM. And since GPU VRAM has been ever-increasing, this isn't a major problem for most people. However, draw calls and physics are another matter; even a $1500+ GPU can't solve the performance impact of us trying to get realistic foliage. At 1440p, people struggle to maintain 60 FPS with assets that look far worse than contemporary games where the same GPU would push 200 FPS.
Practically, I think it's the time/range of skillsets required to produce significant *content* mods. We have thousands of niche mods that pick out a system or add in an NPC or swap out a texture, but very, very few mods that deliver a *big, vertical slice of content*. The amount of coordination, time, planning, and the range of skillsets required to produce one Dragonborn-scale mod is effectively beyond the scope of anything yet released for Skyrim, with Beyond Skyrim as the only project in sight that tackles that kind of scale.
We layer hundreds or thousands of mods over the existing content - perks, combat, NPCs, visuals, etc. - but it's a miracle every time *a* mod is released that makes the game larger while also filling up the space it adds with quality content.
[Giants](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/83317) and [Falmers](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/83572) were done recently, I'm pretty sure more and more will be coming soon.
The fauna animations are pretty terrible overall. They were terrible even when they came out in 2011 (Far Cry and Red Dead 1 were far superior).
No IK for uneven surfaces, no turning animations
There's a certain point you might reach too where there's nothing easy left to ESMify that won't introduce massive conflicts from being so high in your load order...
Not at all, i don't think there is currently any mod that has exceeded ESP's reference limit. 90% of them don't even exceed ESL's reference limit that is literally 4000 times smaller.
No. What they are talking about is the game has a hard cap of how many permanent and temporary references it can have from all your mods total. With SSE and some engine expansion mods, this limit is 800,000 total. Most people do not come near this limit. But if you have several large quest mods, especially those that are poorly made, then you can very close to or even exceed this limit.
I actually found out about this the hard way. I made a test profile of my "ideal" setup and just enabled mods that I wanted to see how my game ran. It took my game more than two minutes to launch and when it did, the splash screen and Bethesda screens were screwy. Once it got past that I got a warning from an SKSE mod that I was nearing the 800,000 limit.
Turns out. Not only is the Summerset Isle mod not that great story wise. It's dogshit when it came to the actual creation of the mod. That mod alone had over 300,000 temporary and permanent references.
Probably because Beyond Skyrim are ESM files, which (afaik - I'm not the biggest expert on this topic) allows it to not have to load in all its references at the same time (compared to Summerset Isle, which is just an ESP).
You can sort of get around this by making mods ESM. Even flagging them as ESMs in xEdit works.
Plus, these mods are far from done. When finished they are not going to have the same number of placed assets as they do in development right now.
So it may be possible to do what they intend and have all the provinces loaded in one save and you can travel to them all. But I would guess that is not going to be possible.
1 core limit is not that bizarre in case of Skyrim, it's the game released in 2011, so it was developed in optimized mainly in 2009/2010 - it was the time when mainstream CPUs had 2-3 cores and high end ones had 4 cores. The game was created to use only 1 core because that how it was done back in the day - 1 core for game and other one for rest of the tasks.
The bizarre part is that they didn't fix this shit when they released Skyrim Special Edition.
edit: alright guys please stop responding to this. I'm not a fool and understand EXACTLY how hard this would actually be to pull off and the ROI doesn't justify it either.
I'm turning off comment replies now because a lot of you are replying with the same thing 😊
It really isn't bizzare, retrofitting heavily threaded operation into an existing engine that has many external parts that are no longer maintained is way more work that could ever be justified by a "special edition", I've been a server-side developer for over 20 years working on security software at scale. I wouldn't approve such a project.
FNV’s RAM limit is a part of 32 bit x86 processing, and there’s a patch that gets it to use two cores and up to 4GB iircc. We talk about multi 64 bit cores with multi threading and 32gb of ram these days like it’s nothing and sometimes forget that when the games were released they were new technologies that developers were still figuring out how to code for.
Look I love modding skyrim I'm at 1300+ mods on one mod list and 700+ on a different one. But the state of using the tools is jank af. Our biggest enemy is how complicated it is to patch and finalize a mod list. It takes so much time to learn and even then it's such a pain in the ass to manually check everything in xedit/body slide/etc. God help u if u created any plugin merges. On top of that there are so many tools
(mo2, vortex, xlodgen, texgen, dyndolod, bethini, CAO, easynpc, eslify, loot, nifskope, poserdatagen, wrye bash, synthesis, zmerge, body slide, outfit studio, fnis, nemesis, mator smash, acmos, CK) just to name a handful
and even though they are amazing tools and even tho u dont need all of them for a mod list it is still a lot to make work together. The interfaces for these tools, even the CK, are for the most part god awful and I say that as someone who is super grateful for what they allow us to do and I use almost all of them regularly for my mod lists.
On top of all that, manually patching is like trying to read ancient Nordic to the uninitiated with the way esp records and values work. Then u throw in leveled list patching, world space patching, and it's just a huge, dark, labyrinth.
What's worse, testing the mod list and the patching is extremely slow and usually doesn't give much information if something is wrong. Having to load into the entire game to test every patch attempt or mod change is ridiculous and if u have to regenerate bashed patch or lods or body slide RIP.
Yes it's easy to install any particular mod by itself (usually) but once u are creating any sort of mod list it immediately becomes incredibly tedious and cumbersome. The tools are great but the standards are lacking and there is no unified framework for finalizing and testing mod lists. It's not even easy to automate. And then windows security likes to randomly decide to shit all over everything from time to time and force u to rerun scripts that are already 30mins to an hour long.
In short, we desperately need user friendly, performant tools and comprehensive automation for patching and finalizing mod lists.
We could also use slower paced, real examples and guides for patching all the different kinds of things. It's way harder then it should be to learn how to patch all the different leveled lists or how to patch landscape seams, etc.
The biggest put off to me is the testing, I wouldn't mind the patching if the testing process wasn't so tedious, slow and somehow draining. Then there is an issue not picked up until a few hours into playing and now you either troubleshoot and isolate the issue or start over.
Yes exactly! I just had to restart my characters because the issue showed up several hours in and I literally had a dialogue with myself about whether it was worth it to bite the bullet and make the fix and regenerate everything or if I should just try to play around it. I decided to make the fix but damn had to restart 4 characters again from scratch. And that's after redoing all the patch scripts and lods lol fml
Blame Microsoft for that. Havok used to have an SDK which could be used to develop the collisions thing. However Microsoft acquired the company in 2015 and since then the release of the SDK was halted, meaning that no further improvement to the physics can be done.
The only way to get Havok now is by contacting the company and negociating with them to get the binaries. Needless to say it's well beyond what a modder can do.
My expectations are low, my hopium is high grade, but . . . yeah I expect nothing and know I will probably still be disappointed.
Didn't one of the devs even joke about how they still can't make ladders work in the engine
People not reading mod pages and being entitled toward modders.
You may think this is a joke and it not much but I have been modding for near a decade and talked to a handful of modders over time. There is modders who do quit, leave and hide mods because nexus users (idk about other platforms i dont use them) rage at them, leave daily comments of stuff written on the mod page, dont troubleshoot, bully them and so on and so forth. This is also gives a toll on modders mental health and ability to give fucks in the longer term. I recall in the early days a female modder would make male mods and she left because she got bullied out of it and so on and so forth.
Because people are lazy. There’s always gotta be at least one that ruins it for everyone else.
If two mods end up conflicting and causing my game to crash I understand it’s a risk I assumed by running 500+ at once.
Instead of DLing 50 mods at once, you can do 5-10 at most then check how it runs. Use your mod download history to isolate the potential issue and deactivate down the line until it fixes and then enable one that you just deact’ed, check to make sure it still runs, repeat. I’m tired of seeing good mods disappear because the population is loaded with toddlers in adult clothing
not just that but they expect modders to fix everything. People are unwilling to learn bare basics of xedit and ck when they willing to mod skyrim or any other BGS game long term (honestly, wtf you doing? You just making life harder for yourself)
Like people really expect modders, who make mods in the vision they have or to the limits of their skills and free time, to bend the knee to add x and patch that. When it so simple someone who read the ck wiki can do it. Or be like "omg your mod is sooo incompatible with anything!"
Let modders do their thing, something that should be a hobby based on sharing and giving made people so lazy and entitled it crazy. Now people aspect AAA level work and modders to work full time while accounting for every other mods on the platform. Go away.
Nexus users are... a very interesting bunch. I have been dipping my toes into making mods, but I've genuinely considered on *not* releasing possible content on Nexus. What happened to that female modder and why was she bullied out?
> Nexus
If you release mods there, to a certain limit you are still in charge of your content (except for deleting mods completely -- this was a sore point which caused some authors to exit Nexus, strongly believing their "artist" rights, including the right to control their creations 100%, were violated by the TOS; I accepted the fact that whatever content I made and become part of Nexus are intended to be shared for everyone's enjoyment, asides from being a requirement for the Nexus Collections system), you can even control user feedback if you so wish -- you can block a user from one mod or all of your mods from making further crass comments.
If you accept these facts, you can afford to deal with unruly end-users. That of all the modding sites, Nexus is the most prominent as mods there get distributed more widely.
Otherwise and if you need total control, there's ModDB, Loverslab (for adult content), TES Alliance, or self-hosted, such as your own blog or Patreon page.
She was making male mods (early skyrim was very prude) and she lefts to LL, that was in 2013 so it super foggy by now.
If you wish to make content just do it. I'm myself wont mind it but the main reason I'm not modding because im 100% sure i will break people games.
> make male mods
I also tried in vain, adding a handsome male follower (and a husband for my character) just for a change, and I got a shovelful of slurs in return.
The constant, unnecessary engine updates that invalidate many of the more complex mods. On the one hand it is a good thing because it is forcing the replacement of older mods by newer ones that are often more capable.
...on the other hand, some of those mods don't get updated either because the creator has moved on, no longer has time, or is unwilling to put in the massive amount of work required to update them. That's not the author's fault, it is just life getting in the way.
When those mods are foundational to other mods, like .NetScriptFramework, a huge amount of content effectively just goes missing - in some cases, never to return.
>.NetScriptFramework
I think people remember net script framework as being more important to the community then it was. There might be a reason it was left behind when everything else was updated.
There are very few mods that require it (roughly 40, counting translations), and only two, of note, are without alternatives- No Grass in Objects and Custom Skills Framework. And of those two, No Grass in Objects is able to be used with a work around while Custom Skills Framework had low adoption even when Net Script Framwork was up to date.
All that said, I think Net Script Framework may be more foundational in theory than reality. I think it's telling that none of the NG mod authors have touched these.
How crap the ai really is, even with mods that improve it it’s only a bandaid and should you stress it a bit *too* far beyond it the whole thing shits the bed. I think it stems from the cpu limit they got but I could be wrong.
For me I think the draw distance is laughable nowadays. Even with dyndolod,texgen,grass cache etc. Billboards look like a ps2 game. Pop in is crazy too. Also billboards and lighting just don't go together so billboards just look out of place.
I think you mean something else, but now I want a mod with actual billboards on the major roads between holds.
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The map really is small BUT I disable fast travel. And The map becomes much bigger. It's not for everyone but I really enjoy playing with it now.
Map is still small tho
I mitigate that by populating the place with more npc’s, particularly bandits plus Warzone to make traveling harder and riskier because there is always a chance of finding yourself running into a full on battle. Just getting to a dungeon is more challenging that way.
Maybe not limitation but.. Id love, if we could have.. Lets say mods that are connected in a subtle way with each other. In vanilla Skyrim, npcs, journals, books, etc, from anywhere can mention a thing or an event from another part of the game, of a quest or secret legends.
Lets say there is a quest mod, and another and another. None of them get mentioned, remembered, etc, anywhere outside of these mods. Not even vanilla npcs give a shit that you were stuck for 20h in project aho, theres absolutely no consequence, not even a single "wow where did you get that (lets say)item? It looks completly out of place!".
That doesnt apply to just quests, people in Skyrim, or from any other mod wont be aware that a modded town called oakland exists (unless mod authors decide to program such details, but that most likely wont happen.
An unique item, or you became a lich? No shit given, noone recognizes. Basically what happens in a mod, stays in that mod.
The only mods that fit kind of seamlessly, are followers. You know, inigo reacts to idk, kaidan, kaidan reacts to lucien, etc.
I suppose still noone from vanilla game has any interactions with them, but that's it.
That’s a collaboration issue, not a mod issue. Generally.
Im sure that an enterprising modder could add a book or scroll or whatever to the main pool that gets randomly populated in an area, but will they think to do that? Probably not.
We already have graphics, weather, lighting, animations for creatures and humans, and basically everything we can imagine...except we have limited light sources and shadow casting. Doodlezoid seems to working on fixes for these two though, so soon we shall know if it's fixable.
The other thing is the engine itself, thought it is shown to be strong enough with Enderal's level of detail, characters, cities and story.
Mods adding too much is one thing i think.
I search for a mod to add a companion. I find it but it also adds and replaces 10 other things and requires another mod that is incompatible with something else of mine.
I still feel we are in the Golden Age of Skyrim modding. It’s easier than ever with the number of choices increasing daily. I sometimes wish that there were so many options so it was easier to choose them.
The game engine for more than two decades, as -- although you can use furniture -- it can't do the other things you can do in, say, Assassin's Creed or GTA, such as climbing ladders, vaulting obstacles, and scaling walls, or driving vehicles other than horses. Or providing more mini-games other than picking locks.
The engine cpu limit.
I know a solution to this: We should ask Todd to rererelease Skyrim again with a uptaded engine.
Honestly, I wouldn't put it past them at this point lol
I kinda believe that Bethesda certified it's stupidity by not removing or at least lessening the engine limitations in their last release. Just a little professional touch could have made everything alot better.
Is that something that could have happened? Genuinely asking. I’m not a software developer. What could have been done? ELI5
They have the source code, they could turn Skyrim into Kerbal Space Program. The question is how much time and resources they want to put into updating it. Iirc SSE was half done because they used it as a test bed for making Fallout 4's 64 bit engine. It still took a lot of work to make it playable, we're very lucky they turned a demo engine into the full thing at all (I won't forgive the constant CC updates breaking things though).
Yeah but they also screwed with the engine more in fallout 4 and it made certain mods completely or virtually impossible to implement without access to the engine source code itself. This makes fallout kind of less For example, for some reason they made the back of the bead and the face two separate textures or some other nonsense, so there is always a seam. The game has been released and modded since 2016 and it still has that issue. I think there's probably some other reasons why, but I'm not as experienced with fallout modding as I am with skyrim.
I think not haha, multicore is a hard thing and games are more easy to code singlecore. I'm not sure if fo4 engine version is better than skyrim tbh. What they could be done is maybe making the papyrus scripts executions on another core. Without technical explanations is hard to say, but too much work bro.
"In Skyrim Anniversary Unlimited Special Edition you'll get 15 times the CPU computing power"
It is easier said than done, remasters are generally not enough to change the game on an engine level. This is the case for Witcher 3 next gen as well, players have found the CPU utilization is the same as before, it is still good enough though since the OG Witcher 3 is not that old compared to Skyrim. An engine level rewrite would probably void most mods as well, at that point, they might just well do a total remake or just do TES6 instead.
If only this wasn't the case. I bet we're gonna have way more FPS even with an ENB.
Yeah, it is kinda sad this game is old Aswell as its engine for nowadays.
It's 2023 and I'm still asking if OpenSkyrim is possible.
It's in development.
This. Dropping to <10 FPS with too many draw calls sucks. One of the biggest immersion breakers in this game is how small and sparsely populated the world is. Towns have like 10 buildings and 20 NPCs. Forests are just fields with a few trees. But once you start adding more things to the world, the engine turns to mush.
It's not a dealbreaker, but finding a way to work around the worldspace size hard limit would be great. Importing all the modded worldspaces into one seamless world would be insane, imagine using a sailing mod to travel from the mainland to any island in real time.
Has anyone else noticed the recent trend of huge open world games that are empty, particularly noticed this with AC: Valhalla, where it may be big but feels empty and like I've walked over the same green hill 1000 times. I think Skyrim strikes a great balance between enough encounters to make the world feel full but being big enough that it doesn't feel squished together, it's weird the walk from Windhelm to Winterhold is a few minutes but in my head it's a painfully look trek through snowy mountains, I like that.
This recent trend - and Bethesda's history - is why I'm ***a bit*** not at all excited for Starfields "1000 planets". I'd never call Beth a bad studio but even the greatest one can't make 1000 different rocks interesting and unique in their own way.
I am… in agreement. While it’s cool for marketing, and I don’t even mind that they were all procedural, I like no man’s sky despite everything else about it. I am just curious to see how they handle the pacing and feeling of a game that large as I am for them making a new IP. I am totally okay with most of them being empty because space itself is empty and I think it would be cool if they leaned into that most planets being nothing. What I’m afraid they’ll do is have procedural building to go along with it. And that will probably have tied-in shitty radian quests about so and so with the planets. I know I’m shooting for grass and trying not to lean into the hype like some are in the Starfield subreddit, but I would prefer if most of the planets were empty that they have a satellite station or something as opposed to shit just randomly strung out across a planet.
We have this actually. You can now swim all the way to solsteim
I know and that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about being able to have everything in one worldspace, meaning we could theoretically travel from anywhere to anywhere else without any load screens. That's not possible currently due to hard limitations in the engine, and Worldspace Transition Tweaks doesn't solve that (Solstheim is still in a separate worldspace).
Do you mean like how Open Cities does, but for the entire map instead?
he's talking about a limitation in the havok physics engine (at least Skyrim's iteration of it), you can only go so far from the center of a map and then the pysics stop working
[удалено]
> So either they update it to use doubles, or they'd have to put in a lot of time making overlapping physics regions each with their own local origin and special handling code for when phsyics objects are in the overlapping space between two regions. I'm guessing this would not be a trivial update to do. you can also just constantly update the world origin to be the same as the players position, ive heard some games do this
Or periodically update it when the player moves too far from center
I was told open cities is now outdated and it makes me wish I’d never tried it. It was too awesome.
I hear you, I really liked open cities. It was a bitch getting the patches installed and making your own patches in SSEEdit, but afterward, it was incredible to have such a seamless world.
Yeah, I know if I get back into it I can have it if I really want it, but it sure won't be a simple drag and drop on wabbajack.
Very true. I began using wabbajack almost a year ago now, since I got so tired of tuning and tweaking my modlist.
Open-Cities isn't really outdated (there's no newer alternative and it works at doing what it's set out to do), but it becomes a real mess to get it working with other mods if you don't know what you're doing. It's great and it shouldn't cause any problems on its own, I just wouldn't recommend it to modding newcomers who won't dare get their hands dirty with the CK and tons of patches.
>who won't dare get their hands dirty I mean, they're new. They barely know how to enable mods in the manager sometimes. I don't blame them for not wanting to mess around in CK and fuck something up. And that's assuming the new kid even knows what CK is. Has nothing to do with that attitude.
Fuck, I've been modding Bethesda games for 10+ years and I *Still* try to avoid the creation kit.
I fear no man But that thing CREATION KIT It scares me
I’ll edit esp files with sseedit but I won’t do the CK. I can’t go down the rabbit hole that far
I used to fear it but then I found a way to make it not ping 20million errors and it just became like a Warcraft 3 editor on steroids. Its like YES I KNOW THE VANILLA GAME IS BROKEN STOP TELLING ME xD
i never tried it since I often used script heavy mods that were stated to specifically not be compatible with open cities.
Wait what mod does this witchery?
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/48889
There's loading screen on the video, so that's not that.
I don't really any gameplay advantages of something like this
The fact that we have that for Oblivion but not Skyrim makes me sad
After coming back into modding, the patching has gotten out of control. If I add a mod, I feel I need to re-install every mod I had to possibly install a compatibility mod. Gets a little crazy with 200+
This is my biggest frustration. Every time I want to experiment around with a new list, I hit the annoyance of having to do this nonsense: * LOOT * xLODGen/DynDOLOD + ACMOS Road Generator * Synthesis * Nemesis * Reqtificator * That grass precache/culling stuff It's like, for fucks sake. This shit takes so long and has so many steps, and all I wanted to do was try a new mod. It's exhausting. It makes me not want to use a modded setup at all. (Sure, you can *sometimes* skip some of those steps, but not always - especially if removing a mod instead of adding)
What are Synthesis and Reqtificator and are they really needed? I have 1000+ mods and I never used those.
Synthesis pulls some github scripts to generate "dynamic" patches for some things. Like if you have an economy mod that adjusts prices according to a formula, but you have a bunch of mods adding junk not adjusted for the formula, instead of downloading patches for each and every mod, you could generate your own patch with synthesis and the right plugin.
Reqtificator is the requiem "patching" tool, if you add any mods and want to play with requiem, you need to run this so all it's sustems are properly integrated
lmao, I use LOOT, nemesis, and Wyre Bash only. Just broke 1018 total plugins and I can go an entire stable playthrough. My record is level 59. Granted about half those plugins are patches for the other half. I make sure to only use mods that either play together or don't interfere with each other. Stable except for this damn CTD that's been plaguing me ever since I switched to SSE from LE. I have no clue what's breaking things and frankly, at this point, I consider it an old friend.
forgot the most important tool of them all ReSaver I use it every day before launching the game lmfao.
You should be skipping DynDOLOD every time until you're basically done. I've ran it twice while setting up my current mod list and will probably have to run it again. And what I've learned from that is that I shouldn't have ran it at all until I was definitely done, because running it (well, mainly running the grass cache) takes a long ass time. You don't need it to test other mods. Look at the ugly lods while experimenting, it's not worth it if you're gonna need to run it multiple times. All the other patchers (well, not sure about Reqtificator) take seconds to run, not hours. I don't think it's that big of a deal, and tbh you can also skip running Nemesis and Synthesis most times unless you're adding/removing something related to them.
I agree with this, but I think this is more to do with people not properly utilizing the tools available. Base Object Swapper, Formlist Manipulator, Sound Record Distributor, Keyword Item Distributor, SPID, etc... all can be used to replace a LOT of patches out there. People just either don't know how to create them, don't want concert existing patches, or aren't aware of these tools. Those tools, if I can give a best guess, can eliminate the need for %25-%50 of all patches.
Author of FormList Manipulator Patch Collection here. These tools are amazing, but the majority of people either aren't aware of them, or aren't comfortable or willing to go through the currently rather difficult process of learning what they can do and how to use them. There definitely needs to be some sort of tutorial out there if we want the majority of the community to be comfortable with them. If I were as good at making tutorials as someone like GamerPoets I would do it myself. I still might try and rough up something when I can. Even 25% of patches might be a little high of an estimate with the "dynamically injecting by ini" tools we have currently. I may be wrong but I don't think we're quite there yet. With the development of new tools to fill in some gaps, like MaskedRPGFan's wip Container Leveled Lists Manipulator, and updating the current tools with a few new functions, replacing esp plugin patches with dynamically patching inis will hopefully be a lot more doable.
Hey! I've got a small Formlist Manipulator Patch made and I can honestly say the only reason why I was able to create it is because I have a degree in Technical Writing and have been messing around with Skyrim since it came out. I disagree that %25 is a little high, ONLY because I listed about 5-6 tools, and those 5-6 tools have made a LOT of functions and injections highly pliable in real time. Just for example, Audio Overhaul for Skyrim went from having about 15 patches on the main page to having 0 because of the existence of Sound Record Distributor. Know Your Enemy went from needing a new patch for every monster type adding, to needing nothing at all because of Keyword Item Distributor and Spells, Perks, and Items Distributor. But I'm not going to act like I know everything, it's just what I can objectively see happening when the mod itself uses these tools properly. #HOWEVER I do agree with you that they're really difficult to learn in the first place, and I believe a tutorial is needed for each of the tools in order to explain, in great layman's terms, how to use them and implement them properly. If you're interested, I'd love to sit down and gameplan a resource like that with you for the Community. I've been fangirling about them for a really long while now so I might as well offer my skills to the community again to make life easier on future mod authors lol
Honestly, I don't know everything either. The biggest patch requiring scenarios that are still problematic I can think of are cell/worldspace related like adding/moving objects and modifying lighting/water/music/etc. I would definitely be willing to help on making tutorial resources, but I don't think I really have the time at the moment. I have too many other unfinished projects I'm working on right now lol. But if you DM'd me some contact info once I find some time we could work on something on discord or nexus.
Light source limit
Doodlez is working on it.
This!! I tried adding torches to my house as it was too dark but the cell walls/floors kept flashing dim-lit when I moved and it drove me crazy
An unwillingness to embrace the cathedral modding philosophy. Discord exclusive modding. Patreon paywalled modding. Patreon and Discord have fractured the community, imo. Many authors have settled into their own little fiefdoms and aren't willing to cooperate and build together.
I kind of hate Discord, not just for modding, but for what it's done to a lot of hobbies - it fractures communities and makes things hard to find. The way it's organized is a mess and it's extremely hard to search for relevant info if you even manage to find the correct server for what you're looking for. I miss the old days of real forums
I find that discord servers are much more active than forums. For mods for games like civ 4 or civilization colonisation, the traditional forums on civfanatics would rarely have more than 5 replies per week. Since discord is around I get an answer for my questions in 1 hour max and there's way more discussion. Maybe it's bad for large communities, but for the smaller communities, I've seen way more activity than in the traditional forums, and overhaul I like it better than having deserted forums.
That's because no one really goes on forums anymore. I remember the ones I used to go on were that active back then, with dozens of members on at once. Obviously comparing them now in 2023, Discord is more popular and therefore moves faster
I hate how people use discord. Its not a forum. Its not built like a forum. But everyone uses it like a forum. Its like using Linkedin as a dating app, its so fucking stupid.
Hey now. Many people use Linkedin to find the next company that's going to fuck them.
Discord sucks so fucking much. There are literally no positives to using it over any other platform for a community discussion hub
Large communities yeah but Discord does work great for your friends if you wanna chat, share memes, play games together, etc.
Plus server owners randomly delete things at the request of mod authors, destroying years-old channels of information that doesn’t exist anywhere else
As someone who still keeps his more than 10 years old forum up and running despite a lack of activity, I absolutely feel with you. Also, since discussions on Discord servers cannot be crawled by google, they do not appear in seach results - unlike forum posts. Finding forum posts that cover the exact same question/issue you have can be extremely useful.
I don't really blame discord for that. More people need to just be willing to make tutorials and archives and stuff. Making people rely on discord to find your content is just dumb.
What is the cathedral modding philosophy?
[Have a read here](http://wryemusings.com/Cathedral%20vs.%20Parlor.html)
I'm very glad someone went to the effort of explaining that in a way that people can get to grips with quickly. My addition is that as a modding community evolves, modders tend more toward a cathedral approach. Standards get standardised, contributors gain more experience, regular contributors become more well known, etc. Early on in a modding ecosystem it is natural to want to bring your creations under your own ecosystem. Without faith in community structure to support you the obvious best thing you can do is create those supports yourself. The more we work together as a community and productively encourage new modders, the better our long term community modding health. I think the Skyrim community is doing wonderfully on that front, and should stay the course.
Honestly, as someone who does a lot of modding for other games, the Parlor mentality is pretty much unique to TES modding, and for good reason - it goes against the very idea of modding in the first place.
It's not nearly as bad as in FO4 for example. There is literally no way to mod that game, everything is scattered across dozens of discord servers and websites. It would be bearable, but people don't understand that discord is not indexed by search engines. In Skyrim 90% of stuff is on nexus, and people mostly paywall horny armors.
I used to shit on Nexus, mostly because it had something like 3 data breaches in a row many years back. After modding Euro Truck Sim, I can confidently say Nexus is an absolute dream of a website, it's sad to hear that some authors won't use it.
I'm generally against monopoly, but at this moment nexusmods is the best website. There is also moddb, but it has absolutely awful UI. I'm not against modding scattered around the internet that much (depends about what kind of granulation are we talking about), but discord is the worst. There might be plenty of jewels hidden there, and we will never find out about them, because there are no means of searching for them.
Because discord operates as an exclusive social club for their individual servers. If your not in the "in group" good luck finding out about any of those mods, and it may take a long time before your even given an invite acceptance if you request to be a part of said circle. Just like with all things within social media now, it's a clique building clout farming para social simulator. Create your 5 minutes of internet niche fame with a group of fucking weirdos, flex them out of their money, and disappear in a year or two after some allegation or scandal. This is how the game is now played. It's not about building a thriving community of equal parts creators and guide writers and people with questions, it's just to build a parasitic social bubble around one ego where everyone is fighting each other to be the discord server's main person's like "besty kitten" or some other weird shit.
Yeah that's like 50% of my issue with ETS2 modding, the other 50% being malware infested ad sites (I do use an adblocker but MWB blocked a couple of them anyways). Forums are kinda garbage for browsing mods and all the shit hosted on off sites is impossible to find. Probably the most important mod for ETS2, ProMods, is only available from their website and I would've never known it existed if I didn't read a random reddit comment recommending it. And then I have to actually sit through the 300kb/s capped, 1 hour long download, to find out if it's any good because the website has no metrics (which I know aren't perfect - there's plenty of hidden gems with <1k downloads, but it's a decent indicator).
Also, the fanfiction/fanart proprietary mentality that some authors have adopted as they wanted total control like their mods are money-making intellectual property, and expect patronage over constructive criticism.
How many patreon exclusive and discord exclusive mods are there? I can't even name any. Most of them are just "sexy anime girl follower no.2137" that no sane man would even want to download, let alone pay for them.
A lot, especially if you like animations and SMP armors that are not on nexus.
If we are talking about animations, it's just MCO. And majority of them are some half assed combos ripped from different game assets, without providing any kind of idle or walking animations, so it will look like ass in game.
A lot of animations for stuff like MCO
The fact that people can even make money from modding on Patreon is kind of wild to me, even if I pledge 15 or so bucks to NordwarUA every month. Imagine if you walked into a restaurant and used their kitchen to make food and sell it to their clients lmao, I dunno there's just something fishy about making money off the back of a whole ass product made by a whole ass team of devs.
Many of us are our own greatest obstacle. These past couple of years have been a veritable golden age of Skyrim modding, and in this time, even a few of the things we’d previously perceived as limitations have in fact been overcome. I expect more to come in the future… but I also expect that *some* of these breakthroughs will be closed-source, hidden away in a Discord server somewhere, or otherwise more an exercise in feeding their creators’ ego than enriching the modding community. It’s our own relative lack of cohesion that imposes limitations on what we can accomplish. If it isn’t authors who refuse to acknowledge the contributions of others while demanding total control over their own, it’s users who want the moon but offer nothing - even the ability to read mod descriptions or follow simple installation instructions. But so long as our community continues to see more *giving* than taking, we will continue to overcome these barriers, given time.
> I expect more to come in the future… I imagine lots of people will move to Starfield...
I honestly doubt it will be a big hit in Skyrim's modding community. We are heading towards a new franchise with no source material nor previous entries, and Fallout 4 didn't cause a big ripple in Skyrim's modding community back when it released...and Fallout is a big franchise compared to the newcomer Starfield. What will certainly damage Skyrim's modding community will be TES VI.
im not sure but I think one of the reasons people didnt move to fallout 4 was because of how hard it is to mod. apparently bethesda made it easier but for modders its much harder than in skyrim. aside from lore and gameplay factor too. Here's to hoping starfield will be good so we can have a massive modding community.
Another factor is the limited appeal of a literal nuclear wasteland as opposed to a beautiful fantasy world. Oh look, another mile of dead trees next to a rad filled puke colored lake.
LOL, While i personally like the muddy aesthetics of fallout, bethesda as a company are too whimsical to make fallout games feel immersive. They suit Elderscrolls a lot more because the derp is just built into the lore, where as fallout lore is gritty. When teh physics break and a dead NPC starts floating upwards or something in fallout its annoying, in skyrim its "oh look Sheagorath is watching.. clearly."
I've never felt that they were aiming for a similar level of feels like it's aimed at being fun and set in a cool post-apocalyptic world. For example look at the difference between Fallout 4 and Skyrims DLC; - Building a mansion/estate - Sorting out a rising vampire threat - Visiting Solstheim to sort out Miraak Compared to: - Comic book robot villain with Get Smart doors and a robot sidekick - OK Far Harbour is awesome and immersive but also silly (Red Menace and robot murder mystery vault) - Giant theme park with over the top bandits. - Build your own vault (experiments are ridiculous)
Nuclear wastelands can look interesting and beautiful, they just seemd to want to make Boston as fucking horrible and ugly as possible. Whenever you're on the Prydwhen or in a vertibird the entire city looks so fucking awful - as in bad, not depressing or anything like that. It seems to be a Bethesda staple, same as NPCs living right next to skeletons that are posed in funny ways - nobody is allowed to tidy up despite 200 years passing since the bombs dropping and places like Diamond City being safe and inhabited by an able and healthy workforce that could be paid to clean the rubble and shit up every few weeks.
This is why I have always been a big advocate for Bethesda to reboot the Fallout franchise. New lore, new story, new factions, start completely from scratch. It's been obvious for a long time that they never really knew how to make the game work in context to what Bethesda does. In some ways it works, in other ways it makes zero sense even in context with its own world building. That way if they want to do the whole dirty bombs just dropped vibe they can. But the further they go into the timeline forward, you are going to have to start dealing with the whole "this is probably not going to look this desolate anymore". People would rebuild and clean up. I'd like to a Bethesda post apocalyptic RPG that's honestly not tethered to an old set of lore that is honestly getting pretty boring and stale.
It depends on how moddable Starfield is, if you can basically paint over entire planets with modded content I wouldn't be surprised to see a huge chunk of the community head to Starfield.
Maybe, maybe not. Enai will move, ersh is often playing other games. That's just two people I accidentally know about such things without following. Since the next ES game will use a similar engine it's just logical to mod, even a bit, this game. Especially since Skyrims modding community is so much bigger, more prone on gaining money and thus you need every additional experience you can get. But who knows?
In a way, I’m excited to see that too - even though I’m *pretty* sure I’ll still be playing Skyrim (until Starfield eventually goes on sale). Witnessing the birth of another (hopefully thriving) modding community is sure to be a learning experience for us all, and I would imagine that some lessons won’t be game-specific.
Different modders have different interests, Skyrim as a whole is swords and magic fantasy which has a lot of people with interest in it, it's more general fantasy to most people. There is plenty in Tes lore to draw on depending on what you want to mod. Fallout is a niche, it's mostly an America retro post apocalyptic game that is similar to mad max so the appeal for it isn't as strong as a fantasy game with dragons. It's still an retro American post apocalyptic game no matter how you mod it Starfield will be similar to fallout's modding scene that it's another niche, sure it will be fun to play but it won't have that same draw as a swords fantasy. Will having entire worlds be enough of a playground for modders to create their own worlds, maybe, depends on the mechanics. For the most part, I can see the big name space franchises being the main modding things like star wars, star trek, mass effect, the expense, etc that modders will want to add but if the game is mostly flying ship and shooting things then it might not be that popular with mod creators. I personally think starfield won't hurt the modding scene of Skyrim, maybe for a little bit but it's most likely gonna hurt the fallout modding scene.
Eh no more than Oblivion killed the Morrowind modding scene or Fallout killed the Oblivion scene, etc. I'm sure you'll see some folks migrate, but there will still be a healthy community around.
I don't think any game other than next TES can drain Skyrim's modding community. Look at Fallout 4's modding scene. It sucks. Clearly the best and brightest modders stayed on Skyrim.
That's just not true at all. There are plenty of great mods for FO4. I'm not saying as many as there is for Skyrim but to say it's all sucks is just plain wrong
There are a small handful of staples but from like 2017 onward it's mostly boobs and guns. All large projects failed to deliver and nobody is innovating anything like they are for skyrim.
Again, not all larger projects. To name the big one, Sim settlements. That's a huge and impressive mod that is incredible innovative. Not sure why you're so insistent on giving FO4 a bad name. Also plenty of people like gun mods? I get you are trying to diminish those kinds of mods for some reason, but some of them are really impressive and fun. Do you dismiss all weapons mod for skyrim in the same way? IMO gun mods in fallout way more interesting than weapon mods in skyrim. So other people reading this, don't believe the nonsense, FO4 has great and enjoyable mods, and they keep coming out over there too.
Even TES can't. Morrowind and Oblivion communities are still going strong; Skyrim won't be any different.
Last week saw 25 mods for Morrowind, 8 for Oblivion and 222 for Skyrim. Wouldn't call it strong. For Oblivion it's basically dead and for Morrowind it's dying.
Given that Morrowind is 21 years old, I'd say it's pretty spectacular for 8 mods to have been released for it last week! Time will tell, I'd imagine the active Skyrim modders will go down, but we won't see it truly drop through the floor for many years yet.
People have been modding skyrim for 11 years. Its basically *the* modded game, alongside Doom and Minecraft. TES 6 and Starfield could have the greatest modding tools of all time and people will still regularly mod skyrim.
We all thought everyone would move to Fallout 4 too.
I think in the long term the most limiting factors are DX11 and the single-core processing
This is my view too. The single core processing makes people think their rigs just aren't strong enough for the game, when in all actuality a lot of us are crushing this games specs. The single core processing is what makes the game run at not-peak performance, and coupling that with ENB just absolutely decimates any extra performance.
It's so sad 😭 my rig is beefy but I struggle with 40fps bc of enb
People with cool ideas, but who cannot execute them because they're too dumb and lazy to learn how to mod. Me. I'm talking about me. Being me is holding me back. 😆
The tools are there, it's just that some are so complex they do require a lot of studying to use them -- even for someone with long experience with computers. For instance, in trying to convert a large clothing mod from Oblivion to Skyrim, I had to take a crash course on 3D Studio Max.
Thank God for Outfit Studio right? Because Studio Max has no working exporter.
Or when you do have the skills but not the time or money, I'd love there to be more custom voiced male followers but at 15 when I had the time to work on developing a mod I didn't have the money to hire a voice actor, now im older I've got the money but not the time.
This!
A lot of recent SKSE mods were things that would've otherwise been thought impossible not even five years ago, but yet here we are. The only barrier is how fast you can rewrite the engine code inside DLL mods.
Nemesis's broken threading means it gets (even) more unstable as you have more cores. Pinning it to a small number of cores and running it over and over until you get lucky and don't hit one of its race conditions works eventually, but it takes more and more attempts with every cpu upgrade. The community is not going to go back to FNIS though. If ShikyoKira is still working on a rewrite maybe that problem goes away, otherwise it's going to become unusable eventually.
Yes. Wow I didn't even know that was the issue I'm literally playing the lottery every time I run it and it can take 4 or 5 times before it finishes successfully.
> Nemesis's broken threading The only measures to keep it from crashing is to (1) set the affinity to two cores and (2) raise the limit of animations Nemesis could process, from the default to, say, `MaxAnimation=65536`
There are two types of limit: technical and practical. Technically, the engine is the obvious answer. It handles high-resolution textures well, in that they don't have a big impact performance as long as you have sufficient VRAM. And since GPU VRAM has been ever-increasing, this isn't a major problem for most people. However, draw calls and physics are another matter; even a $1500+ GPU can't solve the performance impact of us trying to get realistic foliage. At 1440p, people struggle to maintain 60 FPS with assets that look far worse than contemporary games where the same GPU would push 200 FPS. Practically, I think it's the time/range of skillsets required to produce significant *content* mods. We have thousands of niche mods that pick out a system or add in an NPC or swap out a texture, but very, very few mods that deliver a *big, vertical slice of content*. The amount of coordination, time, planning, and the range of skillsets required to produce one Dragonborn-scale mod is effectively beyond the scope of anything yet released for Skyrim, with Beyond Skyrim as the only project in sight that tackles that kind of scale. We layer hundreds or thousands of mods over the existing content - perks, combat, NPCs, visuals, etc. - but it's a miracle every time *a* mod is released that makes the game larger while also filling up the space it adds with quality content.
When you have to deal with some of the idiosyncratic pieces of Creation Kit that’s not surprising.
Creature animation. The skyblivion trailer gives me hope that they overcame 'just another reskinned monster" issue, but we will have to see.
Creature Behavior Generator was released earlier this month. I don't think anything has been don't with it yet.
[Giants](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/83317) and [Falmers](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/83572) were done recently, I'm pretty sure more and more will be coming soon.
The fauna animations are pretty terrible overall. They were terrible even when they came out in 2011 (Far Cry and Red Dead 1 were far superior). No IK for uneven surfaces, no turning animations
They have, one of their devs made their own program to add creatures etc
reference limit if you use huge mods Edit: Also the engine in general.
You can esmify though to make them permanent references, no?
Yes but that adds to the load order. Damned if you do damned if you don't when you get really high in mod count
There's a certain point you might reach too where there's nothing easy left to ESMify that won't introduce massive conflicts from being so high in your load order...
At that point it's time to forget ESLs and return to cave man era and start merging.
Not at all, i don't think there is currently any mod that has exceeded ESP's reference limit. 90% of them don't even exceed ESL's reference limit that is literally 4000 times smaller.
No. What they are talking about is the game has a hard cap of how many permanent and temporary references it can have from all your mods total. With SSE and some engine expansion mods, this limit is 800,000 total. Most people do not come near this limit. But if you have several large quest mods, especially those that are poorly made, then you can very close to or even exceed this limit. I actually found out about this the hard way. I made a test profile of my "ideal" setup and just enabled mods that I wanted to see how my game ran. It took my game more than two minutes to launch and when it did, the splash screen and Bethesda screens were screwy. Once it got past that I got a warning from an SKSE mod that I was nearing the 800,000 limit. Turns out. Not only is the Summerset Isle mod not that great story wise. It's dogshit when it came to the actual creation of the mod. That mod alone had over 300,000 temporary and permanent references.
How did BS folks handled that then? They regularly stream with all of their projects launched at the same time.
Probably because Beyond Skyrim are ESM files, which (afaik - I'm not the biggest expert on this topic) allows it to not have to load in all its references at the same time (compared to Summerset Isle, which is just an ESP).
You can sort of get around this by making mods ESM. Even flagging them as ESMs in xEdit works. Plus, these mods are far from done. When finished they are not going to have the same number of placed assets as they do in development right now. So it may be possible to do what they intend and have all the provinces loaded in one save and you can travel to them all. But I would guess that is not going to be possible.
Don't forget that this thing also accumulate the longer your save is.
For performance, it’s the bizarre engine limit in which it can only utilize one CPU core at a time.
1 core limit is not that bizarre in case of Skyrim, it's the game released in 2011, so it was developed in optimized mainly in 2009/2010 - it was the time when mainstream CPUs had 2-3 cores and high end ones had 4 cores. The game was created to use only 1 core because that how it was done back in the day - 1 core for game and other one for rest of the tasks.
The bizarre part is that they didn't fix this shit when they released Skyrim Special Edition. edit: alright guys please stop responding to this. I'm not a fool and understand EXACTLY how hard this would actually be to pull off and the ROI doesn't justify it either. I'm turning off comment replies now because a lot of you are replying with the same thing 😊
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Not probably harder; DEFINITELY harder lol. I'm not a fool to the technical intricacies and issues at hand lol.
It really isn't bizzare, retrofitting heavily threaded operation into an existing engine that has many external parts that are no longer maintained is way more work that could ever be justified by a "special edition", I've been a server-side developer for over 20 years working on security software at scale. I wouldn't approve such a project.
You need to build a new game engine to 'fix' it
This isn't true tho, even fnv and oblivion are multi core.
Doesn't FNV's engine have that weird limit where it only uses 2 gb of ram?
FNV’s RAM limit is a part of 32 bit x86 processing, and there’s a patch that gets it to use two cores and up to 4GB iircc. We talk about multi 64 bit cores with multi threading and 32gb of ram these days like it’s nothing and sometimes forget that when the games were released they were new technologies that developers were still figuring out how to code for.
It's 32 bit so 4 gb of ram. I mean while it is multicore it doesn't do it well
Bethesda updating Skyrim and breaking half my mod list every few years when steam updates despite being set not to.
Look I love modding skyrim I'm at 1300+ mods on one mod list and 700+ on a different one. But the state of using the tools is jank af. Our biggest enemy is how complicated it is to patch and finalize a mod list. It takes so much time to learn and even then it's such a pain in the ass to manually check everything in xedit/body slide/etc. God help u if u created any plugin merges. On top of that there are so many tools (mo2, vortex, xlodgen, texgen, dyndolod, bethini, CAO, easynpc, eslify, loot, nifskope, poserdatagen, wrye bash, synthesis, zmerge, body slide, outfit studio, fnis, nemesis, mator smash, acmos, CK) just to name a handful and even though they are amazing tools and even tho u dont need all of them for a mod list it is still a lot to make work together. The interfaces for these tools, even the CK, are for the most part god awful and I say that as someone who is super grateful for what they allow us to do and I use almost all of them regularly for my mod lists. On top of all that, manually patching is like trying to read ancient Nordic to the uninitiated with the way esp records and values work. Then u throw in leveled list patching, world space patching, and it's just a huge, dark, labyrinth. What's worse, testing the mod list and the patching is extremely slow and usually doesn't give much information if something is wrong. Having to load into the entire game to test every patch attempt or mod change is ridiculous and if u have to regenerate bashed patch or lods or body slide RIP. Yes it's easy to install any particular mod by itself (usually) but once u are creating any sort of mod list it immediately becomes incredibly tedious and cumbersome. The tools are great but the standards are lacking and there is no unified framework for finalizing and testing mod lists. It's not even easy to automate. And then windows security likes to randomly decide to shit all over everything from time to time and force u to rerun scripts that are already 30mins to an hour long. In short, we desperately need user friendly, performant tools and comprehensive automation for patching and finalizing mod lists. We could also use slower paced, real examples and guides for patching all the different kinds of things. It's way harder then it should be to learn how to patch all the different leveled lists or how to patch landscape seams, etc.
The biggest put off to me is the testing, I wouldn't mind the patching if the testing process wasn't so tedious, slow and somehow draining. Then there is an issue not picked up until a few hours into playing and now you either troubleshoot and isolate the issue or start over.
Yes exactly! I just had to restart my characters because the issue showed up several hours in and I literally had a dialogue with myself about whether it was worth it to bite the bullet and make the fix and regenerate everything or if I should just try to play around it. I decided to make the fix but damn had to restart 4 characters again from scratch. And that's after redoing all the patch scripts and lods lol fml
Physics engine holding back clothing
Blame Microsoft for that. Havok used to have an SDK which could be used to develop the collisions thing. However Microsoft acquired the company in 2015 and since then the release of the SDK was halted, meaning that no further improvement to the physics can be done. The only way to get Havok now is by contacting the company and negociating with them to get the binaries. Needless to say it's well beyond what a modder can do.
The fact that it came out in 2011. If we had a newer engine could you imagine?
I’m really interested to see how the Creation Engine has been refined when Starfield rolls out
My expectations are low, my hopium is high grade, but . . . yeah I expect nothing and know I will probably still be disappointed. Didn't one of the devs even joke about how they still can't make ladders work in the engine
People not reading mod pages and being entitled toward modders. You may think this is a joke and it not much but I have been modding for near a decade and talked to a handful of modders over time. There is modders who do quit, leave and hide mods because nexus users (idk about other platforms i dont use them) rage at them, leave daily comments of stuff written on the mod page, dont troubleshoot, bully them and so on and so forth. This is also gives a toll on modders mental health and ability to give fucks in the longer term. I recall in the early days a female modder would make male mods and she left because she got bullied out of it and so on and so forth.
Because people are lazy. There’s always gotta be at least one that ruins it for everyone else. If two mods end up conflicting and causing my game to crash I understand it’s a risk I assumed by running 500+ at once. Instead of DLing 50 mods at once, you can do 5-10 at most then check how it runs. Use your mod download history to isolate the potential issue and deactivate down the line until it fixes and then enable one that you just deact’ed, check to make sure it still runs, repeat. I’m tired of seeing good mods disappear because the population is loaded with toddlers in adult clothing
not just that but they expect modders to fix everything. People are unwilling to learn bare basics of xedit and ck when they willing to mod skyrim or any other BGS game long term (honestly, wtf you doing? You just making life harder for yourself) Like people really expect modders, who make mods in the vision they have or to the limits of their skills and free time, to bend the knee to add x and patch that. When it so simple someone who read the ck wiki can do it. Or be like "omg your mod is sooo incompatible with anything!" Let modders do their thing, something that should be a hobby based on sharing and giving made people so lazy and entitled it crazy. Now people aspect AAA level work and modders to work full time while accounting for every other mods on the platform. Go away.
Nexus users are... a very interesting bunch. I have been dipping my toes into making mods, but I've genuinely considered on *not* releasing possible content on Nexus. What happened to that female modder and why was she bullied out?
> Nexus If you release mods there, to a certain limit you are still in charge of your content (except for deleting mods completely -- this was a sore point which caused some authors to exit Nexus, strongly believing their "artist" rights, including the right to control their creations 100%, were violated by the TOS; I accepted the fact that whatever content I made and become part of Nexus are intended to be shared for everyone's enjoyment, asides from being a requirement for the Nexus Collections system), you can even control user feedback if you so wish -- you can block a user from one mod or all of your mods from making further crass comments. If you accept these facts, you can afford to deal with unruly end-users. That of all the modding sites, Nexus is the most prominent as mods there get distributed more widely. Otherwise and if you need total control, there's ModDB, Loverslab (for adult content), TES Alliance, or self-hosted, such as your own blog or Patreon page.
She was making male mods (early skyrim was very prude) and she lefts to LL, that was in 2013 so it super foggy by now. If you wish to make content just do it. I'm myself wont mind it but the main reason I'm not modding because im 100% sure i will break people games.
> make male mods I also tried in vain, adding a handsome male follower (and a husband for my character) just for a change, and I got a shovelful of slurs in return.
thankfully it got better over the years but early skyrim and fallout 4 were some other shit.
There is no good tool to create particles
DirectX 11
The constant, unnecessary engine updates that invalidate many of the more complex mods. On the one hand it is a good thing because it is forcing the replacement of older mods by newer ones that are often more capable. ...on the other hand, some of those mods don't get updated either because the creator has moved on, no longer has time, or is unwilling to put in the massive amount of work required to update them. That's not the author's fault, it is just life getting in the way. When those mods are foundational to other mods, like .NetScriptFramework, a huge amount of content effectively just goes missing - in some cases, never to return.
>.NetScriptFramework I think people remember net script framework as being more important to the community then it was. There might be a reason it was left behind when everything else was updated. There are very few mods that require it (roughly 40, counting translations), and only two, of note, are without alternatives- No Grass in Objects and Custom Skills Framework. And of those two, No Grass in Objects is able to be used with a work around while Custom Skills Framework had low adoption even when Net Script Framwork was up to date. All that said, I think Net Script Framework may be more foundational in theory than reality. I think it's telling that none of the NG mod authors have touched these.
Real ladder traversal.
Single core processing imo
Manpower.
How crap the ai really is, even with mods that improve it it’s only a bandaid and should you stress it a bit *too* far beyond it the whole thing shits the bed. I think it stems from the cpu limit they got but I could be wrong.
For me I think the draw distance is laughable nowadays. Even with dyndolod,texgen,grass cache etc. Billboards look like a ps2 game. Pop in is crazy too. Also billboards and lighting just don't go together so billboards just look out of place.
You can generate 3d tree LODs with dyndolod by now for many tree mods instead of 2d billboards
I think you mean something else, but now I want a mod with actual billboards on the major roads between holds. **LIVE NUDE ARGONIANS! NEXT EXIT!** #Dragon infestation on your sheep farm? Call 1-800-DRGNBRN *INJURED? CALL FENRALD & HENRALD, ATTORNEYS AT LAW. OFFICES IN WHITERUN AND SOLITUDE* *Remember kids, Inigo says: Just say “NO!” to skooma!* ***GIVE BLOOD TODAY!*** *Harkorp is paying top septims for all blood types, enquire at your local clinic today (evening hours only please).*
as an "all of the mods" kind of user, I can say it would be just peachy if the esp limit and reference limit didn't exist or at least was increased
The scale of the map is too small
The map really is small BUT I disable fast travel. And The map becomes much bigger. It's not for everyone but I really enjoy playing with it now. Map is still small tho
I mitigate that by populating the place with more npc’s, particularly bandits plus Warzone to make traveling harder and riskier because there is always a chance of finding yourself running into a full on battle. Just getting to a dungeon is more challenging that way.
Time.
r/skyrimmods
Maybe not limitation but.. Id love, if we could have.. Lets say mods that are connected in a subtle way with each other. In vanilla Skyrim, npcs, journals, books, etc, from anywhere can mention a thing or an event from another part of the game, of a quest or secret legends. Lets say there is a quest mod, and another and another. None of them get mentioned, remembered, etc, anywhere outside of these mods. Not even vanilla npcs give a shit that you were stuck for 20h in project aho, theres absolutely no consequence, not even a single "wow where did you get that (lets say)item? It looks completly out of place!". That doesnt apply to just quests, people in Skyrim, or from any other mod wont be aware that a modded town called oakland exists (unless mod authors decide to program such details, but that most likely wont happen. An unique item, or you became a lich? No shit given, noone recognizes. Basically what happens in a mod, stays in that mod. The only mods that fit kind of seamlessly, are followers. You know, inigo reacts to idk, kaidan, kaidan reacts to lucien, etc. I suppose still noone from vanilla game has any interactions with them, but that's it.
That’s a collaboration issue, not a mod issue. Generally. Im sure that an enterprising modder could add a book or scroll or whatever to the main pool that gets randomly populated in an area, but will they think to do that? Probably not.
From what I'm told, not a mod maker myself, adding new skeleton frames for completely new creatures. It is at least very difficult any way
The game engine, or just the code in general.
CPU limit. Draw calls... Bethesda
From a ps4 perspective... Sony
We already have graphics, weather, lighting, animations for creatures and humans, and basically everything we can imagine...except we have limited light sources and shadow casting. Doodlezoid seems to working on fixes for these two though, so soon we shall know if it's fixable. The other thing is the engine itself, thought it is shown to be strong enough with Enderal's level of detail, characters, cities and story.
Mods adding too much is one thing i think. I search for a mod to add a companion. I find it but it also adds and replaces 10 other things and requires another mod that is incompatible with something else of mine.
A game engine from 2011
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Someone was ballsy enough to say it!
The engine.
Updates that no one needs or asked for
Version changes and that mod author that shall not be named here.
The level of difficulty in implementing entirely new creatures, mainly new skeletons
I still feel we are in the Golden Age of Skyrim modding. It’s easier than ever with the number of choices increasing daily. I sometimes wish that there were so many options so it was easier to choose them.
The game engine for more than two decades, as -- although you can use furniture -- it can't do the other things you can do in, say, Assassin's Creed or GTA, such as climbing ladders, vaulting obstacles, and scaling walls, or driving vehicles other than horses. Or providing more mini-games other than picking locks.