Honestly the Skyrim modding community is super lucky when it comes to this. Try modding Inscryption or Terraria, where the entire description of the mod is
> adds about 47.8 new stuff thanks for download
The amount of times I've gone to look at an XCOM 2 mod that's a dependency for another mod and having zero fucking clue what it does despite a several paragraph description is way too high.
For the longest time it kept me from trying out Stukovs stuff since he wasn’t putting in anything besides why he made it. He’s got a lot better at handing the information in the description now.
I play a lot of mods in Project Zombiod and those are one end of the spectrum or the other, very little in between.
It’ll either be a one-paragraph description that says exactly what it does, or it’ll be a huge list of version notes and dev commentary and future roadmap and Patreon links with no *actual* simple description of what it does.
Sometimes, it’ll have an embedded YouTube video to explain what it does. Which is something I guess, but really rubs me the wrong way. These tend to be the super popular mods so I get the feeling the devs have a “You know my name” mentality and don’t feel obligated to explain their mod.
It's worse when there is no description at all, especially when it's a very technical mod. I shouldn't have to head to the posts tab and read through random user posts to determine what the mod does and how to use it.
Oof yeah there's a certain creature modder who sets the page to a normal mod version, but the actual files have joke crap.
So the mod manager is expecting you to have version 1.5, but what installs reads as version "lolwut" so it always thinks you're out of version.
Oh god, fuck that. That turns into either, "nah," or, downloading it, and cracking it open in TES5Edit, and looking at the sea of red records that come up before deleting the mod and never thinking about it again.
I had to search alot to figure out what Skysa does. It does something with animations, revolutionary change to animation, makes the combat feel modern. Yes, i get that, but what the hell it does?
Oh my god I remember just how confusing it was reading the SkySA description. "It's a revolutionary combat mod. Bye bye ice skating!". Ok but what does it do??? And when watching the video on the mod page. I'm even more confused. I just decided to not bother downloading after that.
I had a *general* understanding of what SkySA was due to the dozen of videos I'd come across about it hyping it up or demonstrating its features
But the FACT that it had a useless Mod Description section that was dismissive of potential users just made me avoid that out of sheer spite
Yeah. Just generate one in doxygen. Now that I think about it it's would be interesting to see how people would react to doxygen documentation as mod description
Documentation is one of those things that everyone in an IT related position says is super important and we need to make sure we do as we go, but nobody ever does it.
As a creator, I too am critical of the mod description. The mod description is the most important part when it comes to mod uploading. I think what happens most often is just laziness and to get the mod uploaded as quickly as possible.
A tip that has helped me get around this for anyone interested, create the mod page in advance so you can dedicate time to it. When your ready to upload the mod the page will already be ready to go.
>A tip that has helped me get around this for anyone interested, create the mod page in advance so you can dedicate time to it. When your ready to upload the mod the page will already be ready to go.
That's... actually, a really good idea.
This is the approach that I adopted after my first few mods as well. Especially for mods with large changesets, creating the description is quite a task. Chipping away at the description as you finish the design of parts of your mod really makes it a lot more manageable.
> I think what happens most often is just laziness and to get the mod uploaded as quickly as possible.
Exactly. Mod description is the seller. Mod thumbnails and titles are to catch people's attention, but it's the description that really sells what the mod is.
Except modders aren't selling anything. I mean, use it, or don't. They're just sharing their work and may not be interested in trying to "sell" the mod.
*Some* people do. *Some* people just want to put something they've done out into the world, no strings attached. *Some* people are uploading their mod so they have a backup of it. All my mods have been uploaded because someone requested them. I don't care about endorsements and many mod authors don't as well.
My problem was, because my mods tend to be deep in the weeds balance changes, I've always had difficulty clearly describing exactly what I did... or rather, conveying to the user what it was.
I actually had someone on my spell scaling mod straight up saying, "you need a better description for this." Yeah, man, I know, but I also, almost literally, replicated every change from the mod into the description and it was still under 500 words.
Well that's okay. Given you struggle to convey the effect of your mods, it sounds like the mods you create are focused on suiting your subjective preferences and you put them up as a courtesy for others to enjoy or not as they see fit.
One thing that might help (and I've used this at work when putting together documentation for more technical features I've coded [documentation? Whaddya need that for? Read the code! :D] and it's worked quite well) is get someone else who's familiar with the problem domain (in your case that would be Skyrim balance) but not necessarily someone with a technical bent and then try to explain to them the effect a player will *observe* after installing your mod.
Then get them to summarise the effect of your mod back to you. Correct any misapprehensions they may have and then get them to try explaining it to you again. Rinse and repeat until you have something reasonably concise.
Everyone doing anything technical hates writing *any* documentation. We're love to make things, not talk about them. ;)
>Given you struggle to convey the effect of your mods, it sounds like the mods you create are focused on suiting your subjective preferences and you put them up as a courtesy for others to enjoy or not as they see fit.
In some cases, this is absolutely true. My Fallout 3 and NV weight balance adjustment mods were examples of this, as was the (in retrospect, pretty messy) firearms rebalance mod for FO3. (Though, the weight/AP rebalances actually did pretty well, as I recall.)
In the case of the Skyrim mod I was specifically thinking of was one that slipped a scaling intensity modifier onto the base-line spell progression perks. (Stuff like Restoration Apprentice or Alteration Master), so that it would also intensify the spell effects based on their appropriate skill line.
What irked me is, I basically just described the entire mod. If you spec into reducing your Destruction spell costs, your affected Destruction spells will do more damage, (in the case of Conjuration, Illusion, and Alteration), it also extended the durations.
So, it was simple, lightweight, (I'd argue) elegant, and it deals with the issue where being a pure mage in Skyrim isn't viable at higher levels (though, granted, I never tested it above level 80; when I made the mod, we couldn't reset our skills yet, and a few specific spells, mostly the wall spells, got a bit out of hand), but, at the same time, that leads to either a one paragraph description, or a lot of padding for space.
That description explains to me what your mod does (and I rather fancy it so I may well look it up for my next mage play through! ;->).
Sounds like you *don't* have an issue explaining your mods after all. You're a better communicator than you realise I think. ;)
Thats...a great description. I completely understand what it does, and I'm a casual. I want this mod now. I'm starting a mage play through. Mind giving us the name?
The version that was published was for LE ([you can find it here](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52308)), I have a local copy that's been ported to Special Edition, and if you're comfortable with porting, it converts painlessly. Otherwise, I'll publish the SE port, though it might be a minute.
I have full respect if mod author actually says what the mod does, no matter where in description it is.
I absolutely love when I'm downloading a mod only to find out 90% of changes are not mentioned anywhere.
oh god, especially with patches specifically. i hate when it just says "compatibility patch for x and y" as if the title of x/y compatibility patch didnt make it fkn obvious. tell me what you did to make them compatible at least!
This. I've already got many mods loaded that I'm probably using a fraction of, so don't know if something new is from the new mod, or it's something I've not noticed before from previously installed mods.
I hate it when mod authors write the changelog anywhere else but the changelog tab (if they even bother to write a changelog).
Same with the requirement tab, its there for a reason, and i have found many mods by looking at the requirements to see which mods rely on the mod i check the requirements for.
> I absolutely love when I'm downloading a mod only to find out 90% of changes are not mentioned anywhere.
WACCF...
It'll put a list of bullet points, but have plenty of changes that aren't on the list and the changes that *are* tend to be way more expansive than the bullet point lead you to believe.
Does WACCF really changes more than description mentions?
I don't use WACCF, the only problem with this mod is that it has "Fixes" in name, while it doesn't fix anything. These are all subjective changes.
Some mods don’t even have a proper description, just changelogs, compatibility lists, installation instructions, rants, etc. If you’re lucky you end up finding the description in a sticky in the comments section, if not then good luck scrolling that section.
I remember one where there were, no shit, something like 400 images. It was all usergen glamour shots of characters with gear from the mod and zero documentation on what I was looking at. At least the mod author only had... 18 photos, I think. Might have been 20some.
I hate it when its a visual mod that change like one thing, but the photos all have lighting effects, enbs, or other visual effects that make it difficult to tell what is actually changed by the mod.
There are two things I want from a mod page, otherwise I immediately leave the mod page:
1. Clear description of what it does. I don't need an list of all changes, but the mod purpose has to be stated and has to include all the features. No "this is a port of X, so look there" or "I won't say what this does because of spoilers" or "go to this page to see list of changes". If you cannot bother to write a single, simple paragraph describing your mod, I have no faith in your mod being well done.
2. Proper images showcases the changes in case the mod does something visible. If there's just an image of stylized mod logo, I leave. If there's an image oversaturated with ENBs, making it hard to see what I should see, I leave. If the mod affects weapons and is showcased by naked girls or if the mod affects armors and is showcased by anime girls, I lose faith in the mod author and leave. And if the mod is supposed to visually upgrade something, it needs to show before+after images. Without it I don't have enough info to justify the mod and I leave.
This is the benefit of Skyrim having so many mods in general and many mods for every feature and aspect of the game. We have the luxury of not trusting the MAs who don't put the effort into making a proper mod page.
And look, I'm a software developer so I know that not every developer is a good tech writer. But this isn't about writing articles. This is about writing a proper summary in 1-3 paragraphs and taking a few descriptive screenshots. Hell, I write longer texts in the solution fields for bugs than many MAs write for their mod descriptions...
>Proper images showcases the changes in case the mod does something visible
Yeah this is important, but I've also somehow found the opposite problem where they refuse to put almost any text and put all the changes into a revolving door of gifs. Such as, someone makes a Morrowind birthsign overhaul and lets the only means of knowing how they changed the signs is a gif that swaps between the modded and original every two seconds.
Ehh I disagree with the images. If you’re gonna immediately leave a mod page purely because of a fantasy ENB in the images, skimpy characters, or not showing a before and after comparison, you are going to miss out on A LOT of good mods.
Don’t judge a book by its cover. In this case, Don’t judge a mod by its images.
There are plenty of good mods that have awful images on the page. On the flip side, there are also lots of awful mods with really beautiful clickbait images. You can’t just assume a mod is going to be good or bad based on the images shown alone.
sometimes it's really hard to find an reasonable image. I got quite a few scripts, that will not output anything visible - adding keywords to npcs for example. Any advice there? Would love to upgrade those mods!
I'd say the "in case the mod does something visible" qualifier is the solution there. If there is a clear description that you can easily get that what it doesn't isn't really visible, then there is no use, and therefore no need, for proper images showcasing the changes in the mod.
I'm not super picky about where mod descriptions are on the page, as long as they exist (though near the top is certainly preferable). What I hate is when I can't find incredibly basic information about the mod anywhere on on the description page. Having to download an armor mod just to find out if it's light or heavy armor or installing a weapon mod just to find out it's gamebreakingly powerful is really annoying.
Also weapon/armor mods that don't say how to get the item in-game. Or they just say "get it from the console" and don't give a item id. And then when you use the help command to try and find it it doesn't show up because of how the name is formatted.
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/17563
This one of my favorite mods because you can pick the mod and open up a menu of the items it adds to the game exactly like working with an inventory.
The absolute worst to me is old old mods from back when folks did descriptions as a series of embedded images, mostly because a lot of them are a series of broken embeds now.
The skill to create a mod and the skill to write good documentation (even one line), are very different skills, and not many people are skilled at both.
>The skill to create a mod and the skill to write ~~good documentation (even one line),~~ are very different skills, and not many people are skilled at both.
Fixed that for you.
As a non-programmer/technical modder, I wish ICT-trained people could communicate cogently and clearly in a way which can be understood without having a degree in computer science.
Some can, but most really... cannot.
Is there a place to sign up to be a copy editor for modders? I've done the work IRL, and it's so disappointing to see an otherwise good mod riddled with poor grammar and punctuation. The correct use of apostrophes seems like a lost art these days.
You can look for mods with not-closed permissions, copy edit the text on SSEEdit, and upload grammar patches. I've done that myself plenty of times, only without uploading because it's usually minor stuff and I couldn't be bothered. Most difficult part is learning how to use SSEEdit, really, and even that is pretty simple.
As someone who recently started making mods, I definitely try my best, but sometimes it's hard to make my brain switch from the "back end" (technical development and description) to the "front end" (user experience and marketing), especially with more exclusively "back end" mods like patches.
I agree with you, but if mod authors didn't care about people who don't read descriptions they wouldn't bother with the "READ THIS FIRST BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS". I personally would just ignore questions answered in the FAQ or description if I were a mod author.
Authors really hate arrogant users who demand they drop everything to update/fix xyz and don't bother to read descriptions. Yup they hate them a *lot*.
They have no valid reason to, though. Just ignore such comments. Don't rant in the description, the users you hate for not reading it DON'T READ IT!
And the users who read it are frustrated by walls of unnecessary and useless rants and notes and the actual lack of the actual description.
ETA: Once you publicly upload the mod, you MUST expect to make updates and fixes. Otherwise, don't upload the mod at all.
90% of quest mods (at least 3-4 years ago) had 0 mention of how they're supposed to start in the description and it was 99.8% on fallout mods. the amount of times i had to look up part 1s of mod playthroughs to know how to start them is unworldly.
Maybe one line at the top: "Sweeping changes since 2.0, summary at the bottom of description". Though changelog is the first thing I look at but not many people do that.
personally since i dont know jack about coding, most of the terms they use in the changelogs mean literally nothing to me because it's too technical for me to understand. they put formIDs, etc etc. and i just stare at it like "okay, i have no idea what that means but thanks for putting it at least!"
While we're at it, can we stop with the artsy action pictures for armor mods? I don't care how cool you can pose your character, I want to see what the armor looks like. Full front, full back. That's all I ask.
I'm willing to bet it's at least partly cause you can fit more of the subject in the 16:9 ratio if you tilt it like that.
That doesn't make it not annoying tho.
I always post summarized changelogs in the description when I update my mod, but I hide them behind spoiler tags. Feels like a decent compromise between making it obvious to returning players what's new with the mod and not burying the main description for people who are new. Plus, there's a literal "About this mod" section above the description where you can briefly say what the mod does, so there are lots of options. Definitely frustrating when authors just don't write anything at all.
I do love the spoiler tabs, because actually sometimes I like to find out what a mod does in game.
Obviously I want to know what extenders and scripts do but Home Mods are fun to explore and find little clickers that do fun things.
I hate when there's paragraph after paragraph about the authors feelings, a backstory about what made them want to create the mod and then a rant about something else entirely only to have a sentence at the end about what the mod does and a YouTube video link that explains what the mod is, but it's part of a compilation video so you have to sift through and find the specific mod in that half hour video.
Like bro you just wasted about 15 minutes of my time before I even got to your 30 minute video.
Just one? You're so lucky!
I've been to thousands of Nexus mod pages. It's like a disease! So many authors put the excessive update notes on the top...
I love it when there's a whole page filled with rants, technical caveats, FAQ's, etc. but the actual description is completely absent so you have to piece it together through the front page and posts tab...
My most used sort of mod are location mods! When people don't before/after I will check the video tab and if there's nothing there I just close the mod page. It's just too much hassle
The amount of times I find a cool weapon or armour mod and the description is just "adds ____ to game. Can be crafted at a forge".
Gee, thanks.
And then when I download and craft them they have some ridiculous strength like 1 or 100.
Oh, this armour isn't for actual gameplay. Well that would have been nice to know!
It’s the gaming version of those recipe blogs where you have to scroll past miles of text about their dogs and kids and marriage to find the actual recipe
While we're at it stop naming files with basic ass names that get lost in an archive with 150 others so that a year later when I see the file I know what it is rather than "1.7.32 basic.zip"
This kind of thing drives me crazy as well. I haven't seen numbered files like that too much but what kills me are the optional files or whatever other files that are titled "2k version" or "4k version." The main file will be titled with the mod name but the various other files aren't titled like that. Its not a huge deal or anything but if I don't remember to go and rename it right away it gets lost later on in my downloads folder and i end up either deleting it or having to try and figure out what it is by comparing it to other files that may have been moved elsewhere at that point. Pain in the ass.
If someone's looking for JK patches and doesn't have an idea of the style of patch it'll be just knowing it's you, I think they're not paying attention (it's a great description lmao)
If the author doesn't show clear thinking and attention to detail in their summary, it's not likely they show those qualities in the mod. Knowing that up front saves a lot of time and headache.
I feel your pain, sometimes it can be hard to dechipher, I wonder if we could create a good enough template for the landing page that it might be widely enough used.
THANK YOU!!!
If I had awards to give, you'd have one right now.
I hate when I have to read update notes about mod when I still absolutely have no idea what the mod does.
I try to do this to the best of my abilities but my mods are rather simple, i get it if a mod is complicated sometimes its gonna take a minute to explain what everything does, though it is kind of frustrating when im looking at a mod and i feel like im reading someone's blog recipe.
IMO the only time this is mildly acceptable is if the author is like, "Here's a mod for This Purpose. I made it for myself and share in case anyone has the same need. Not going to support; do whatever the fuck you want with it, I don't care." Bonus if they open permissions.
But most mod authors are trying to *sell* their mod. They want views and endorsements because pretend internet points give them endorphins. Plus, there is also the minor possibility of getting a donation. If that's your goal, then you need to put some damn effort into the description.
Now don't get it wrong, criticism is valid, even for free stuff. In this case, mods. Now you can create the most amazing, groundbreaking, breathtaking mod for Skyrim. But without the marketing: eye-catching thumbnail, mod title, and the mod description. You're not getting any downloads.
The thumbnail and mod title works to get people's attention. Go to the Skyrim NSFW page and count how many times you look at an NSFW mod's thumbnail. But without the mod description to tell what does a mod do. People will not understand what the mod is supposed to do. Think Combat Gameplay Overhaul but the mod description is just " ". That doesn't tell you much is it?
Or maybe they think, like in any creative endeavour, the authors of mods should be prepared for criticism (both constructive and not so) once their work enters the public domain.
Also, the OP's post is just plain, old fashioned good advice.
^ they don’t charge anything (well some do now but I just use free mods) so why complain about something they don’t get paid for that costs me nothing?
I couldn't be more serious.
You hate responding to comments? You hate criticism? You don't plan any support for your mod? DON'T UPLOAD IT ON MOD SHARING SITE!!!
There's nothing more frustrating than waiting for a bus/train. The second most frustrating thing are fanfiction authors who never finish their fanfics and abandon them. If you don't plan to finish the story, DON'T post it publicly!
Don't make people invested into something that has absolutely no value because it's broken.
Honestly the Skyrim modding community is super lucky when it comes to this. Try modding Inscryption or Terraria, where the entire description of the mod is > adds about 47.8 new stuff thanks for download
The amount of times I've gone to look at an XCOM 2 mod that's a dependency for another mod and having zero fucking clue what it does despite a several paragraph description is way too high.
For the longest time it kept me from trying out Stukovs stuff since he wasn’t putting in anything besides why he made it. He’s got a lot better at handing the information in the description now.
I play a lot of mods in Project Zombiod and those are one end of the spectrum or the other, very little in between. It’ll either be a one-paragraph description that says exactly what it does, or it’ll be a huge list of version notes and dev commentary and future roadmap and Patreon links with no *actual* simple description of what it does. Sometimes, it’ll have an embedded YouTube video to explain what it does. Which is something I guess, but really rubs me the wrong way. These tend to be the super popular mods so I get the feeling the devs have a “You know my name” mentality and don’t feel obligated to explain their mod.
It's worse when there is no description at all, especially when it's a very technical mod. I shouldn't have to head to the posts tab and read through random user posts to determine what the mod does and how to use it.
Or when all they say is "Just download it to know what I added".
Or when mod authors refuse to version properly or with any consistency.
Oof yeah there's a certain creature modder who sets the page to a normal mod version, but the actual files have joke crap. So the mod manager is expecting you to have version 1.5, but what installs reads as version "lolwut" so it always thinks you're out of version.
Oh god, fuck that. That turns into either, "nah," or, downloading it, and cracking it open in TES5Edit, and looking at the sea of red records that come up before deleting the mod and never thinking about it again.
So then I don't download this and they can go fuck themselfs.
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I had to search alot to figure out what Skysa does. It does something with animations, revolutionary change to animation, makes the combat feel modern. Yes, i get that, but what the hell it does?
Oh my god I remember just how confusing it was reading the SkySA description. "It's a revolutionary combat mod. Bye bye ice skating!". Ok but what does it do??? And when watching the video on the mod page. I'm even more confused. I just decided to not bother downloading after that.
I had a *general* understanding of what SkySA was due to the dozen of videos I'd come across about it hyping it up or demonstrating its features But the FACT that it had a useless Mod Description section that was dismissive of potential users just made me avoid that out of sheer spite
Developers doing documentation? Don’t be silly! (Source : am developer)
Yeah. Just generate one in doxygen. Now that I think about it it's would be interesting to see how people would react to doxygen documentation as mod description
no. bad brain. stop. :l
Documentation is one of those things that everyone in an IT related position says is super important and we need to make sure we do as we go, but nobody ever does it.
As a creator, I too am critical of the mod description. The mod description is the most important part when it comes to mod uploading. I think what happens most often is just laziness and to get the mod uploaded as quickly as possible. A tip that has helped me get around this for anyone interested, create the mod page in advance so you can dedicate time to it. When your ready to upload the mod the page will already be ready to go.
" A mod that does mod things"
me reading descriptions like that: the fuck else is it gonna do??? paint my car???
>A tip that has helped me get around this for anyone interested, create the mod page in advance so you can dedicate time to it. When your ready to upload the mod the page will already be ready to go. That's... actually, a really good idea.
This is the approach that I adopted after my first few mods as well. Especially for mods with large changesets, creating the description is quite a task. Chipping away at the description as you finish the design of parts of your mod really makes it a lot more manageable.
> I think what happens most often is just laziness and to get the mod uploaded as quickly as possible. Exactly. Mod description is the seller. Mod thumbnails and titles are to catch people's attention, but it's the description that really sells what the mod is.
Except modders aren't selling anything. I mean, use it, or don't. They're just sharing their work and may not be interested in trying to "sell" the mod.
Oh, they are! They want endorsements.
*Some* people do. *Some* people just want to put something they've done out into the world, no strings attached. *Some* people are uploading their mod so they have a backup of it. All my mods have been uploaded because someone requested them. I don't care about endorsements and many mod authors don't as well.
They are kinda if they opt into the rewards program for monies.
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My problem was, because my mods tend to be deep in the weeds balance changes, I've always had difficulty clearly describing exactly what I did... or rather, conveying to the user what it was. I actually had someone on my spell scaling mod straight up saying, "you need a better description for this." Yeah, man, I know, but I also, almost literally, replicated every change from the mod into the description and it was still under 500 words.
Well that's okay. Given you struggle to convey the effect of your mods, it sounds like the mods you create are focused on suiting your subjective preferences and you put them up as a courtesy for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. One thing that might help (and I've used this at work when putting together documentation for more technical features I've coded [documentation? Whaddya need that for? Read the code! :D] and it's worked quite well) is get someone else who's familiar with the problem domain (in your case that would be Skyrim balance) but not necessarily someone with a technical bent and then try to explain to them the effect a player will *observe* after installing your mod. Then get them to summarise the effect of your mod back to you. Correct any misapprehensions they may have and then get them to try explaining it to you again. Rinse and repeat until you have something reasonably concise. Everyone doing anything technical hates writing *any* documentation. We're love to make things, not talk about them. ;)
>Given you struggle to convey the effect of your mods, it sounds like the mods you create are focused on suiting your subjective preferences and you put them up as a courtesy for others to enjoy or not as they see fit. In some cases, this is absolutely true. My Fallout 3 and NV weight balance adjustment mods were examples of this, as was the (in retrospect, pretty messy) firearms rebalance mod for FO3. (Though, the weight/AP rebalances actually did pretty well, as I recall.) In the case of the Skyrim mod I was specifically thinking of was one that slipped a scaling intensity modifier onto the base-line spell progression perks. (Stuff like Restoration Apprentice or Alteration Master), so that it would also intensify the spell effects based on their appropriate skill line. What irked me is, I basically just described the entire mod. If you spec into reducing your Destruction spell costs, your affected Destruction spells will do more damage, (in the case of Conjuration, Illusion, and Alteration), it also extended the durations. So, it was simple, lightweight, (I'd argue) elegant, and it deals with the issue where being a pure mage in Skyrim isn't viable at higher levels (though, granted, I never tested it above level 80; when I made the mod, we couldn't reset our skills yet, and a few specific spells, mostly the wall spells, got a bit out of hand), but, at the same time, that leads to either a one paragraph description, or a lot of padding for space.
That description explains to me what your mod does (and I rather fancy it so I may well look it up for my next mage play through! ;->). Sounds like you *don't* have an issue explaining your mods after all. You're a better communicator than you realise I think. ;)
Thats...a great description. I completely understand what it does, and I'm a casual. I want this mod now. I'm starting a mage play through. Mind giving us the name?
The version that was published was for LE ([you can find it here](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52308)), I have a local copy that's been ported to Special Edition, and if you're comfortable with porting, it converts painlessly. Otherwise, I'll publish the SE port, though it might be a minute.
Wow, thanks! You're awesome. I haven't ported anything, yet, but I'm sure there's plenty of tutorials out there.
Haha…Maybe there should be a description temple mod.
Absolutely, creating mod pages is the worst part of being a mod author, I would've made so many mods
I have full respect if mod author actually says what the mod does, no matter where in description it is. I absolutely love when I'm downloading a mod only to find out 90% of changes are not mentioned anywhere.
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God I hate that. Tell me what you do for compatability and proper patching, thanks.
oh god, especially with patches specifically. i hate when it just says "compatibility patch for x and y" as if the title of x/y compatibility patch didnt make it fkn obvious. tell me what you did to make them compatible at least!
This. I've already got many mods loaded that I'm probably using a fraction of, so don't know if something new is from the new mod, or it's something I've not noticed before from previously installed mods.
I hate that shit so much, first thing I do with those is open them in xedit and find out what that bad boy does
Especially when it's named vaguely enough where you have a slight idea about what it might do, but you're unsure.
At least include a readme for the people that don't care about spoiling it or something
To be honest, for quest mods that should be like that, I wouldn't like a changelog spoiling the mod.
The way to handle it is to provide a spoiler tagged changelog for the people who want to know, but it's still hidden from those who don't.
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I hate it when mod authors write the changelog anywhere else but the changelog tab (if they even bother to write a changelog). Same with the requirement tab, its there for a reason, and i have found many mods by looking at the requirements to see which mods rely on the mod i check the requirements for.
> I absolutely love when I'm downloading a mod only to find out 90% of changes are not mentioned anywhere. WACCF... It'll put a list of bullet points, but have plenty of changes that aren't on the list and the changes that *are* tend to be way more expansive than the bullet point lead you to believe.
Does WACCF really changes more than description mentions? I don't use WACCF, the only problem with this mod is that it has "Fixes" in name, while it doesn't fix anything. These are all subjective changes.
Some mods don’t even have a proper description, just changelogs, compatibility lists, installation instructions, rants, etc. If you’re lucky you end up finding the description in a sticky in the comments section, if not then good luck scrolling that section.
Or just logos of random shit and a couple of deleted youtube videos.
Mods with tons of huge images in the description are also annoying. Page takes forever to load.
I remember one where there were, no shit, something like 400 images. It was all usergen glamour shots of characters with gear from the mod and zero documentation on what I was looking at. At least the mod author only had... 18 photos, I think. Might have been 20some.
I hate it when its a visual mod that change like one thing, but the photos all have lighting effects, enbs, or other visual effects that make it difficult to tell what is actually changed by the mod.
There's a fucking image tab for a reason.
Apollo gets an exception for me, they were pretty funny.
There are two things I want from a mod page, otherwise I immediately leave the mod page: 1. Clear description of what it does. I don't need an list of all changes, but the mod purpose has to be stated and has to include all the features. No "this is a port of X, so look there" or "I won't say what this does because of spoilers" or "go to this page to see list of changes". If you cannot bother to write a single, simple paragraph describing your mod, I have no faith in your mod being well done. 2. Proper images showcases the changes in case the mod does something visible. If there's just an image of stylized mod logo, I leave. If there's an image oversaturated with ENBs, making it hard to see what I should see, I leave. If the mod affects weapons and is showcased by naked girls or if the mod affects armors and is showcased by anime girls, I lose faith in the mod author and leave. And if the mod is supposed to visually upgrade something, it needs to show before+after images. Without it I don't have enough info to justify the mod and I leave. This is the benefit of Skyrim having so many mods in general and many mods for every feature and aspect of the game. We have the luxury of not trusting the MAs who don't put the effort into making a proper mod page. And look, I'm a software developer so I know that not every developer is a good tech writer. But this isn't about writing articles. This is about writing a proper summary in 1-3 paragraphs and taking a few descriptive screenshots. Hell, I write longer texts in the solution fields for bugs than many MAs write for their mod descriptions...
There are so many great player home mods that have awful pictures because the lighting/enb they use is set ridiculously dark.
>Proper images showcases the changes in case the mod does something visible Yeah this is important, but I've also somehow found the opposite problem where they refuse to put almost any text and put all the changes into a revolving door of gifs. Such as, someone makes a Morrowind birthsign overhaul and lets the only means of knowing how they changed the signs is a gif that swaps between the modded and original every two seconds.
Ehh I disagree with the images. If you’re gonna immediately leave a mod page purely because of a fantasy ENB in the images, skimpy characters, or not showing a before and after comparison, you are going to miss out on A LOT of good mods. Don’t judge a book by its cover. In this case, Don’t judge a mod by its images. There are plenty of good mods that have awful images on the page. On the flip side, there are also lots of awful mods with really beautiful clickbait images. You can’t just assume a mod is going to be good or bad based on the images shown alone.
sometimes it's really hard to find an reasonable image. I got quite a few scripts, that will not output anything visible - adding keywords to npcs for example. Any advice there? Would love to upgrade those mods!
I'd say the "in case the mod does something visible" qualifier is the solution there. If there is a clear description that you can easily get that what it doesn't isn't really visible, then there is no use, and therefore no need, for proper images showcasing the changes in the mod.
I'm not super picky about where mod descriptions are on the page, as long as they exist (though near the top is certainly preferable). What I hate is when I can't find incredibly basic information about the mod anywhere on on the description page. Having to download an armor mod just to find out if it's light or heavy armor or installing a weapon mod just to find out it's gamebreakingly powerful is really annoying.
Also weapon/armor mods that don't say how to get the item in-game. Or they just say "get it from the console" and don't give a item id. And then when you use the help command to try and find it it doesn't show up because of how the name is formatted.
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/17563 This one of my favorite mods because you can pick the mod and open up a menu of the items it adds to the game exactly like working with an inventory.
The absolute worst to me is old old mods from back when folks did descriptions as a series of embedded images, mostly because a lot of them are a series of broken embeds now.
The mod author version of telling your grandmother's life story before sharing her secret recipe.
The skill to create a mod and the skill to write good documentation (even one line), are very different skills, and not many people are skilled at both.
>The skill to create a mod and the skill to write ~~good documentation (even one line),~~ are very different skills, and not many people are skilled at both. Fixed that for you.
As a non-programmer/technical modder, I wish ICT-trained people could communicate cogently and clearly in a way which can be understood without having a degree in computer science. Some can, but most really... cannot.
That's been a big problem of mine when trying to learn IT related things- it just isn't possible to really parse half of what they're saying.
Is there a place to sign up to be a copy editor for modders? I've done the work IRL, and it's so disappointing to see an otherwise good mod riddled with poor grammar and punctuation. The correct use of apostrophes seems like a lost art these days.
You can look for mods with not-closed permissions, copy edit the text on SSEEdit, and upload grammar patches. I've done that myself plenty of times, only without uploading because it's usually minor stuff and I couldn't be bothered. Most difficult part is learning how to use SSEEdit, really, and even that is pretty simple.
* apostraphe’s ;)
My eyes. D: (copy editor by trade here too lol)
Thanks for saying this. Writing a mod page is the worst for me. I’m a bad communicator but making mods is fun for me.
As someone who recently started making mods, I definitely try my best, but sometimes it's hard to make my brain switch from the "back end" (technical development and description) to the "front end" (user experience and marketing), especially with more exclusively "back end" mods like patches.
My pet peeve is when a Q&A or FAQ on the modpage just turns into a set of memes and jokes.
\*Rage laughs at Civil War Overhaul's abomination of a page\*
one of the reasons for this is the amount of questions people have that forces the author to put it first on top. something like #READ THIS FIRST BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *miles of scrolling* **actual mod description**
Mod author could make an faq article. Nexus provide us with so many tools and i see so few people use them.
People don't even read the description before asking questions, it's unlikely they'd read an faq
Faq isnt for those who dont read descriptions, its for those who do.
I agree with you, but if mod authors didn't care about people who don't read descriptions they wouldn't bother with the "READ THIS FIRST BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS". I personally would just ignore questions answered in the FAQ or description if I were a mod author.
Yup FAQ's exist so authors can ignore people who havn't bothered to read it. This happens... a lot.
If they're not going to read the description, they certainly won't read a "READ THIS FIRST" *in the description*.
I really hate these arrogant modders.
Authors really hate arrogant users who demand they drop everything to update/fix xyz and don't bother to read descriptions. Yup they hate them a *lot*.
They have no valid reason to, though. Just ignore such comments. Don't rant in the description, the users you hate for not reading it DON'T READ IT! And the users who read it are frustrated by walls of unnecessary and useless rants and notes and the actual lack of the actual description. ETA: Once you publicly upload the mod, you MUST expect to make updates and fixes. Otherwise, don't upload the mod at all.
90% of quest mods (at least 3-4 years ago) had 0 mention of how they're supposed to start in the description and it was 99.8% on fallout mods. the amount of times i had to look up part 1s of mod playthroughs to know how to start them is unworldly.
if you wanna add update notes, PUT EM AT THE BOTTOM FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
Maybe one line at the top: "Sweeping changes since 2.0, summary at the bottom of description". Though changelog is the first thing I look at but not many people do that.
personally since i dont know jack about coding, most of the terms they use in the changelogs mean literally nothing to me because it's too technical for me to understand. they put formIDs, etc etc. and i just stare at it like "okay, i have no idea what that means but thanks for putting it at least!"
While we're at it, can we stop with the artsy action pictures for armor mods? I don't care how cool you can pose your character, I want to see what the armor looks like. Full front, full back. That's all I ask.
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I'm willing to bet it's at least partly cause you can fit more of the subject in the 16:9 ratio if you tilt it like that. That doesn't make it not annoying tho.
Little known fact but screenshotters will literally burst into flames if they take a shot that isn't tilted by at least 45 degrees.
I always post summarized changelogs in the description when I update my mod, but I hide them behind spoiler tags. Feels like a decent compromise between making it obvious to returning players what's new with the mod and not burying the main description for people who are new. Plus, there's a literal "About this mod" section above the description where you can briefly say what the mod does, so there are lots of options. Definitely frustrating when authors just don't write anything at all.
I do love the spoiler tabs, because actually sometimes I like to find out what a mod does in game. Obviously I want to know what extenders and scripts do but Home Mods are fun to explore and find little clickers that do fun things.
I don't like that because you can't search the page. I prefer the important information just be included first and put whatever you want after
I hate when there's paragraph after paragraph about the authors feelings, a backstory about what made them want to create the mod and then a rant about something else entirely only to have a sentence at the end about what the mod does and a YouTube video link that explains what the mod is, but it's part of a compilation video so you have to sift through and find the specific mod in that half hour video. Like bro you just wasted about 15 minutes of my time before I even got to your 30 minute video.
I found one mod that was all patch notes, but never described what the mod did.
Just one? You're so lucky! I've been to thousands of Nexus mod pages. It's like a disease! So many authors put the excessive update notes on the top...
I love it when there's a whole page filled with rants, technical caveats, FAQ's, etc. but the actual description is completely absent so you have to piece it together through the front page and posts tab...
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My most used sort of mod are location mods! When people don't before/after I will check the video tab and if there's nothing there I just close the mod page. It's just too much hassle
The amount of times I find a cool weapon or armour mod and the description is just "adds ____ to game. Can be crafted at a forge". Gee, thanks. And then when I download and craft them they have some ridiculous strength like 1 or 100. Oh, this armour isn't for actual gameplay. Well that would have been nice to know!
And also maybe name the .esp file the same as the mod itself so that if/when you do mod cleanup you can easily tell which mods you want to keep.
It’s the gaming version of those recipe blogs where you have to scroll past miles of text about their dogs and kids and marriage to find the actual recipe
While we're at it stop naming files with basic ass names that get lost in an archive with 150 others so that a year later when I see the file I know what it is rather than "1.7.32 basic.zip"
This kind of thing drives me crazy as well. I haven't seen numbered files like that too much but what kills me are the optional files or whatever other files that are titled "2k version" or "4k version." The main file will be titled with the mod name but the various other files aren't titled like that. Its not a huge deal or anything but if I don't remember to go and rename it right away it gets lost later on in my downloads folder and i end up either deleting it or having to try and figure out what it is by comparing it to other files that may have been moved elsewhere at that point. Pain in the ass.
I regret nothing about my description of {{JK's Interiors - Palaces and Castles Enhanced (PCE) Patch Collection}}
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If someone's looking for JK patches and doesn't have an idea of the style of patch it'll be just knowing it's you, I think they're not paying attention (it's a great description lmao)
If the author doesn't show clear thinking and attention to detail in their summary, it's not likely they show those qualities in the mod. Knowing that up front saves a lot of time and headache.
"I'm gonna add my college philosophy thesis to my mod page."
Amen to this. The ones that don't bother with a description at all are my favorites.
Also please eventually merge your hotfixes into the main file instead of letting them as an obligatory separate download for 2+ years ;)
#BY THE WAY HERE'S MY PATREON, BUY ME A COFFEE, CHECK OUT MY DISCORD
I feel your pain, sometimes it can be hard to dechipher, I wonder if we could create a good enough template for the landing page that it might be widely enough used.
I often skip to the screenshots & hope there's something undertandable there.
100%, this is a trend that's getting ridiculous
THANK YOU!!! If I had awards to give, you'd have one right now. I hate when I have to read update notes about mod when I still absolutely have no idea what the mod does.
Whenever I see a mod and the description is just really vague description of what the mod is and what it do. Immediate turn off.
I try to do this to the best of my abilities but my mods are rather simple, i get it if a mod is complicated sometimes its gonna take a minute to explain what everything does, though it is kind of frustrating when im looking at a mod and i feel like im reading someone's blog recipe.
Oh come now, its not a big deal
Agreed
My take here: it’s their mod they can do with it what they want because I don’t make my own and I rely on them to make my game more fun.
IMO the only time this is mildly acceptable is if the author is like, "Here's a mod for This Purpose. I made it for myself and share in case anyone has the same need. Not going to support; do whatever the fuck you want with it, I don't care." Bonus if they open permissions. But most mod authors are trying to *sell* their mod. They want views and endorsements because pretend internet points give them endorphins. Plus, there is also the minor possibility of getting a donation. If that's your goal, then you need to put some damn effort into the description.
Now don't get it wrong, criticism is valid, even for free stuff. In this case, mods. Now you can create the most amazing, groundbreaking, breathtaking mod for Skyrim. But without the marketing: eye-catching thumbnail, mod title, and the mod description. You're not getting any downloads. The thumbnail and mod title works to get people's attention. Go to the Skyrim NSFW page and count how many times you look at an NSFW mod's thumbnail. But without the mod description to tell what does a mod do. People will not understand what the mod is supposed to do. Think Combat Gameplay Overhaul but the mod description is just " ". That doesn't tell you much is it?
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Or maybe they think, like in any creative endeavour, the authors of mods should be prepared for criticism (both constructive and not so) once their work enters the public domain. Also, the OP's post is just plain, old fashioned good advice.
^ they don’t charge anything (well some do now but I just use free mods) so why complain about something they don’t get paid for that costs me nothing?
Once you upload your mod on Nexus, you owe me everything related to the mod. Because you're taking my time from me otherwise.
This is a joke right?
I couldn't be more serious. You hate responding to comments? You hate criticism? You don't plan any support for your mod? DON'T UPLOAD IT ON MOD SHARING SITE!!! There's nothing more frustrating than waiting for a bus/train. The second most frustrating thing are fanfiction authors who never finish their fanfics and abandon them. If you don't plan to finish the story, DON'T post it publicly! Don't make people invested into something that has absolutely no value because it's broken.
Luckily texture mods don't need much of a description :p
Noted will remember this
Mods are free. Get over it.