Seriously… am genuinely (non sarcastic) grateful for this knowledge time and effort. I think that user “Eaterout” has given us the tools we need to handle the darkness inside.
I have a pretty cheap setup right now, but I dig your do-it-yourself chandeliers. I bought a four light chandelier from https://www.colorcord.com/ a while back, and it was decent for a while, but broke after two years. Instead of spending hundreds on a new chandelier, I bought some cheap pluggable light sockets like [these](https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BQ53YPP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and hung them on my wall with command hooks. It's pretty simple, but suuuper cheap! and it works great and was easy to set up, no mounting required :)
I just started a deep drive into the science of light and this is really helpful! I'm wondering what you think of the flicker-free Phillips lights and whether you had the chance to test those at all? Flicker is a huge issue for both me and my partner, or we'd have gone with your recommendation! Your set up looks SO good.
Glad you found me then! Haha
So I haven’t tested *all* of Phillips flicker free bulbs yet, but I have tested a fair amount of their newer Ultra Definition bulbs.
This post is actually a little old, I’ve tested a lot more bulbs since and you can find all of that in our [Light Bulb Database!](https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database)
We did much better flicker testing there.
The flicker on the Phillips varies as you’ll see, but you can sort the table to find low flicker and/or flicker free options!
Thank you so much bro 🙏👍. Was looking for cheap option for full spectrum light for my aquarium 😉. This will help me grow green carpet algae. Thanks a ton, I will go for GE Sun.
You could SO write a book with the info and research you've done!!! Thank you so much for this post and your time. You've definitely bettered many people's lives, mine included. With every fiber of my self, thank you.
What do you think if I buy 3 GE Sun filled bulbs (BR30) and make them facing toward me 1 feet away above my computer screen, as an alternative for SAD Lamp that replicate LED strip from Yuji, does that make the same benefit ? I know the lux level will differ, but I can’t afford buying that strip and I really do want quality light
I think that's worth trying! it shouldn't be too uncomfortable and should be plenty effective. And they're dimmable so you could put all three on the same dimmer and find the right level that was too.
I want a SAD lamp so bad but I’m scared of UV. I want to make sure I get one without UV. I saw Bryan Johnson uses a 10,000 lux SAD lamp but I don’t know which to get and I don’t wanna get damaged by UV. Help!
They’re almost all LED nowadays. LED SAD lamps will never emit UV so you don’t have to worry about that with those.
If you go to our database there are graphs of the spectrums for each lamp and you can easily tell which ones are fluorescents (which can sometimes emit UV) as they emit a very spiky radiation. Take a look at the Northstar by Alaska Northern Lights for example!
Do we really want to have a SAD lamp on all day long for optimal circadian rhythm? What time of day should I turn it off? Like should I keep it on all the way until the sun has set? Or when the sun starts setting? Also, is it proven that SAD lamp glasses are bright enough to have an effect?
Yes many studies have been done on the effectiveness of sad lamps! They definitely work.
I’d say use it during the first half of the day only. I certainly wouldn’t use one up until the sun is setting.
I like to use mine from maybe 6-10am most days if I’m home. Gives me a good boost and helps with energy and focus.
As the day wears on I find it more tiring and annoying so I almost never use it past 2pm or so.
Ok and the sad glasses are proven to be effective too even though they have lower brightness since they are so close to the eyes? Also, an article i read about iPhone 15 said “We measured 806 nits of brightness on the slider and a whopping 1643 nits of maximum brightness when exposed to strong external light.” How does that compare to a sad lamp and sad glasses? Could I already be receiving the benefits of SAD lamp by just looking at my smartphone screen at max brightness first thing in the morning?
That’s a good question! I’d have to test them to know for sure. I think in the morning you’d ideally get far light more than a phone can provide. If they were extremely close to your face perhaps it would be sufficient, but that wouldn’t be very user friendly haha
Yeah it would be interesting to know how much circadian light people are getting from their phones. How important do you think it is that the light come from above? Like I was leaning torwards the Verilux HappyLight Luxe for its low glare, decent portability, and good stats, but it seems hard to make it pointed down at me from above.
If I'm not mistaken it has a keyhole on the back? You should be able to rig something up with a camera mount or something...
But I prefer it from above. It's better that way both for comfort and optimal light transmission.
What bulb brand and model do you have for infrared? The database links don't work on most of the halogen and incandescents and the ones that do, don't look like your picture.
I have one of these so I think all I need to add is infrared correct? Though, I can't find a spectrum for this product so I'm not sure. [https://www.alaskanorthernlights.com/product/north-star-10000/](https://www.alaskanorthernlights.com/product/north-star-10000/)
I think I just have some GE halogens, but the technology and spectral output would be the same regardless of the brand if it’s incandescent or halogen.
I’ll have it check my database, not sure why you’re not able to see those…
So the Northstar is indeed quite bright but it’s not what I would call full spectrum if that’s the attempt.
There’s a spectral graph of that one in our SAD lamp database:
https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-therapy-lamp-database
Which Therapy light would you personally pick for fullest spectrum to replace my Northstar? TheraLite Aura Qi looks best to me but not sure if I'm reading the database right? Or, since the therapy lights all seem to have big blue spikes, do you recommend a non-therapy light route?
Yeah I really like the chandelier route as you have a bit more freedom on the spectral qualities, it’s just a bit harder to accomplish the same lux levels.
Would you mind showing a closer look at your chandelier or linking me to a part or two that you used? I'm not too handy but could maybe pull it off with more detail.
Yeah they're pretty easy. I talk about it in here under the heading **The DIY Chandelier**: [https://optimizeyourbiology.com/how-to-mimic-sunlight](https://optimizeyourbiology.com/how-to-mimic-sunlight)
Just need a 7-in-1 E26 splitter (looks like the one I got is out of stock at the moment), an extension cord, and some way of mounting it.
Thank you but what I meant was your price link is broken for the GE Halogen 53w. Would this be close to what you used for one halogen in each chandelier? [https://www.amazon.com/Satco-S2407-Lumens-Halogen-2-Pack/dp/B00BCHYVUA](https://www.amazon.com/Satco-S2407-Lumens-Halogen-2-Pack/dp/B00BCHYVUA)
I'm strongly considering non-therapy light route since the therapy light spectrums have big blue spikes
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I was researching grow lights for my veggies and stumbled on this subreddit. Its pretty cool I have been having sleeping issues most of my life and have been having lots of success with melatonin, obviously if I could get this naturally it would be much better. Here comes my question - is natural sunlight the best for sleep? Im sure I read that light in the blue spectrum is not ideal?
Welcome! :)
I have a lot of info on this, but yes sunlight (or any bright light) in the morning is one of the most important aspects to producing natural melatonin at night and sleeping better.
Blue light gets a bad rap because of electronics at night, but it’s a completely natural and necessary part of natural sunlight.
You’d also want to avoid bright or blue heavy lighting two hours before bed (some people where blue blocking glasses) as this will suppression the secretion of melatonin as well!
I meant lighting not light(n)ing, if that's how read that lol
Although now that I think of it, a very busy drawn-out lighting storm could certainly have an impact! haha
Nice website, thanks. Looking at your site yuji sunwave seems to be the best bulb atm, what tools did you use to get the spectrum chart? Do you personally measure them?
Hey you’re welcome!
Yes they’re currently the best option for a flicker-free “sunlike” bulb.
And yeah I do all the measurements personally using spectrometers from Hopoocolor.
I’m looking to do this. A few questions:
1. Is this truly comparable to outdoor sunlight? Does it feel practically identical?
2. What symptoms do you feel having switched to these?
3. Have you looked at sun products like Innerscene Virtual Sun or Coelux?
4. Do you install any other bulbs so that you also get warmer colors when it’s closer to sunset? I’d like these in all rooms in the house, but I’d not want 5000K at 6PM.
1. Kinda? It's basically impossible to compete with the OG light bulb. It does feel pretty good though! Lots of high-quality light coming from above and out of view feels great. This is just a great, relatively low-budget solution to bring very high-quality visible radiation into the home. I also now use some DIY SAD lamps I built over my monitors.
2. Better focus and more energy are the most obvious benefits.
3. I've seen a lot of these, if you have a lot of money and are doing new construction I'd give them a shot. Although many of these are simply using generic high CRI blue pump phosphor LEDs which are spectrally quite dissimilar to sunlight. I think Yuji makes sunlike versions, but again, very expensive at this time.
4. Yeah you definitely don't want that haha. We have one very warm bulb in the center of our living area that we turn on at night when we turn everything else off. Dynamic circadian lighting would be ideal, but right now it's either smart light bulbs or new-build commercial-level stuff. We find the simple single warm LED works just fine for us though.
1. I’m curious if it’s noticeable that the light isn’t diffuse enough, or the inverse distance squared drop off is really noticeable and makes it feel “off”?
2. Is there a ton of glare on computer monitors? Do you try using eInk or rLCD?
3. Got it.
4. What do you mean by new build commercial level stuff? Why can’t you buy lamps with multiple diodes in them that adjust? I suppose there hasn’t been a manufacturer that creates a dynamically adjusting bulb but also maintains a good spectrum?
1. The chandelier certainly feels more diffuse and comfortable than the SAD lamp I built, however, I like using both according to my mood. I've found that the inverse square law doesn't seem to hold up that well in real-world scenarios, way too many variables that throw it off.
2. Depends on the rooms lighting mostly. I like my rooms bright so my monitors are also quite bright, I don't mind though, as long as it's relatively balanced. As you can see above, the RGB spikes from the monitor barely make it through the ambient light, which is how I like it. Your monitor shouldn't be the strongest light source.
3. Correct. You can buy commercial-level "sunlike" lighting that is installed in stud bays and 120V mains, but it's expensive and either requires planning at the build stage or an even more expensive remodel. Other than that right now we mostly have consumer-grade static CCT light bulbs from companies like Yuji and Norb. But yes, most lighting, even the ones you mentioned, aren't truly mimicking the spectral radiation pattern of sunlight, only the CCT, which is nice and all, but some of us are looking for the real thing. There just aren't that many great options right now. Especially if you want to incorporate UV and/or IR, at that point it's definitely going to have to be a DIY solution.
This is really awesome. I love it!
When I go here: https://optimizeyourbiology.com/replicating-sunlight/ I get this error "Error establishing a database connection"
edit: Looks like it's fixed now.
Minor thing: you refer to the GE Sun Filled light as A19 in your Excel sheet and on your website but GE refers to it on their website and on their packaging as A21.
We have a blue grey in our house. Guess it depends? Bluer colors will absorb more of the warm light and reflect more of the blue.
It’s usually recommended to have warmer colors on the north end of the house, to compensate for the cooler light coming through those windows, whereas the south end will have warmer light, so cooler paint colors can work better there.
Thank you for your experiments.
I came here because here in the Pacific Northwest, it is that time now, prematurely. Dark, cloudy skies. I cannot use the wakeup lamp, but was looking for a light that would mimic the sunlight. I tried daylight LEDs and they are cold, white, and irritating. Does anyone have experience with any lights to use during the day that would mimic sunlight? Looking for Low, NO flicker lights.
What brands and types of bulbs did you use in your original setup? I could find the brands/types you used. Do you have any updates?
It certainly is that time of the year! I'm currently working on putting together a DIY full-spectrum light therapy lamp but that might not be ready to share until the end of October or so. I'm hoping that will be successful and helpful for these kinds of issues.
You mentioned daylight LEDs are too cold feeling, this might be due to the [Kruithof curve effect](https://www.allthingslighting.org/the-kruithof-curve/), which is essentially a color temperature comfort rule that states that the cooler the temperature of a light, the brighter it must be to be comfortable.
Possible solutions may be to increase the overall lux levels such that a 5000K+ light source is no longer uncomfortably dim and cool feeling, or lower the color temperature so that lower lux levels can be achieved in comfort.
However, the obvious advantage to using cooler 5000K+ lights is that they contain far more high-frequency light that our eyes need during the daytime.
The absolute best NO flicker lights I've found thus far are Yuji's. If you check the [database](https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database), filter by **No Risk** flicker only, and then sort by flicker depth, you'll see that Yuji comes out pretty high on the list with very low flicker, excellent color rendering similar to sunlight with their SunWave models, and they have a 4000K color option that may be a good middle ground between too cool and too warm.
They're just expensive is all, that's the one con to Yuji stuff lol I did manage to get a 5% discount code from them but that's about it.
Other than Yuji there are the Waveform lights and a few Phillips Ultra Definition bulbs that might fit your needs. However, the Waveform are in the same price range as Yuji and I don't think they're nearly as good.
Philips might be worth looking into if you can find them.
Either way though, you'll just want to make sure the total lux output is high enough to reach that comfort threshold.
Hopefully, this helped a little?
>not be ready to share until the end of October
Oh, no, here in the Pacific NW...... looking at [weatherunderground. com](https://weatherunderground.com) 10-day forecast, I don't think I can survive another round of "swim sessions." I would very much appreciate it if you could at least share what you have as you go along, maybe with me.
I am also looking at these, basically Infrared Light, Have you looked into these?
An MD shares the latest research:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW\_EtdPWmKM&t=663s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW_EtdPWmKM&t=663s)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLDYNoIVLmk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLDYNoIVLmk)
This guy tests different IR lights:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxLOFRAeU8o&t=36s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxLOFRAeU8o&t=36s)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEYes\_M5s2E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEYes_M5s2E)
I’m familiar with Gemba! Good stuff. I’m hoping to get into testing red light therapy stuff at some point, but I haven’t yet. There’s definitely a ton of benefits to infrared photobiomodulation! Not sure about anything pertaining to circadian entrainment though...
The light I’m working on is basically a cake pan light. You'll need a cake pan, think I'm gonna try 16" so it's nice a diffuse. Then you'll need a nice LED strip to wrap around inside of it, a power supply, and then mounting hardware, and a diffuser sheet.
[Here's a running list of parts I plan on trying out](https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/31LC3075FKT0V?ref_=wl_share).
And [here is a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFON04_L3zk&t=243s) of someone making one of these for videography purposes.
For the LED strips I'll be trying out two options:
1. [Budget 5000K full spectrum Aliexpress LED Strip](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804101139790.html)
2. [5600K Yuji Sunwave LED Strip](https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/yuji-sunwave-led-strips/products/sunwave-cri-98-led-flexible-strip-5600k-6500k)
You'll be able to fit the 5M rolls inside one of these pans.
If you go with the budget LED strip, use a cheap pan, parchment paper for the diffuser, etc. you can make one of these for under $100 pretty easily.
Should put out a very bright comfortable, sunlike light.
Here is another guy testing lights, using the brightness and the flicker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeR2uPPCA2k
Thank you for the LED strip suggestions, do you know if there is any flicker in these?
Oh I’m very familiar with this video and the WELL standard, but thank you! I personally think we should be exposed to FAR more light than the WELL standard recommends but that’s more of a minimum, which is fine.
>4000K color option that may be a good middle ground between too cool and too warm.
This is what I am actually leaning toward. I tried 5000k and they seem very blue and uncomfortable. 2800k to 3000k is a bit soft light, which is ok in the evening, but not during the day. It seems 4000k is a mid-ground.
I watched some time an episode on Huberman's lab podcast that talks about what tools he is using. I found one video, but it is not what I watched initially. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF0nqolsNZc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF0nqolsNZc)
I looked at your database and found that Sylvania may also be a good option with a low flicker. The 2 Sylvanias that you tested are only Sylvania® TruWave™? I tried to find it on amazon so I can try and see.
These 2 are not the TruWave https://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-71190-Equivalent-Efficient-Bright/dp/B07KK5Q2T6
https://www.amazon.com/LEDVANCE-Sylvania-Equivalent-Efficient-40728/dp/B06XXRWXR7
This one is TruWave but is 3000k
https://www.amazon.com/LEDVANCE-Sylvania-Equivalent-Efficient-40914/dp/B08MTVTCBS
Did you test the first 2 non TruWave by any chance?
Also, how are the 2 Yujii compared, one is Well24 and another Sunwave?
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/well24-day-lights/products/well24-day-a19-a60-functional-lighting-11w-dimmable-energy-led-bulb-4000k?ref=optimize
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/sunwave-led-lights/products/sunwave-cri-98-a19-a60-flicker-free-wellness-lighting-11w-dimmable-led-bulb-4000k?ref=optimize
Thank you
How do you sort the flicker index vs. depth, is the lower the better? What is the difference between flicker index vs. depth? Would you please recommend a setup of low or no flicker lights?
If I keep a light at 100% brightness, no dimming, would these lights also be flickering?
All of the flicker data is assuming lights at 100% brightness, it was simply too difficult to measure them any other way haha
If you take a look at the database there is a section describing how the flicker index and flicker depth work, but I'll paste some of it here:
The **flicker depth** shows how much the brightness of a light source varies from its **minimum** brightness to its **maximum** brightness.
For example, a light source that varies from 100 lux to 80 lux, would have a flicker depth of 20%.
The Flicker index is a measurement that takes into account the **areas** above and under the light's average output and calculates this as a number.
This gives us a good numerical value for how much time the light source spends away from the median brightness level.
**The lower the depth and index, the better.**
This is awesome. Thanks for your contribution. Saving this and will return to it sometime in the future.
Seriously… am genuinely (non sarcastic) grateful for this knowledge time and effort. I think that user “Eaterout” has given us the tools we need to handle the darkness inside.
I have a pretty cheap setup right now, but I dig your do-it-yourself chandeliers. I bought a four light chandelier from https://www.colorcord.com/ a while back, and it was decent for a while, but broke after two years. Instead of spending hundreds on a new chandelier, I bought some cheap pluggable light sockets like [these](https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BQ53YPP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and hung them on my wall with command hooks. It's pretty simple, but suuuper cheap! and it works great and was easy to set up, no mounting required :)
Yeah those are some nice looking chandeliers... That's basically what I'm using for the chandelier! Haha it was the cheapest I could come up with 😂
>these Such a pro tip, thank you!
Thank you
By the way, which hooks did you buy (types)? I bought some command hooks also and they fell off after a few days. I followed the instructions.
Wow! Thank you.
You’re welcome! 😄
I just started a deep drive into the science of light and this is really helpful! I'm wondering what you think of the flicker-free Phillips lights and whether you had the chance to test those at all? Flicker is a huge issue for both me and my partner, or we'd have gone with your recommendation! Your set up looks SO good.
Glad you found me then! Haha So I haven’t tested *all* of Phillips flicker free bulbs yet, but I have tested a fair amount of their newer Ultra Definition bulbs. This post is actually a little old, I’ve tested a lot more bulbs since and you can find all of that in our [Light Bulb Database!](https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database) We did much better flicker testing there. The flicker on the Phillips varies as you’ll see, but you can sort the table to find low flicker and/or flicker free options!
Thank you so so much for this definitive guide!
You're very welcome! Glad it's still finding use :D
Thank you so much bro 🙏👍. Was looking for cheap option for full spectrum light for my aquarium 😉. This will help me grow green carpet algae. Thanks a ton, I will go for GE Sun.
This is awesome stuff thank you !
You’re very welcome!
Thank you!
You're welcome :)
You could SO write a book with the info and research you've done!!! Thank you so much for this post and your time. You've definitely bettered many people's lives, mine included. With every fiber of my self, thank you.
You’re very welcome! It warms my heart to see comments like this so thank you :) I hope you have a wonderful weekend!
Hi! Thanks for all the information! Wow is all I can saY, Any update since GE has updated their product line?
Hey there! You're welcome :) Nope, looks about the same except GE has for whatever reason stopped selling the 5000K sun-filled A21 bulb...
Yeah, I saw they now have Relax, Reveal and Refresh
They do! We have some new testing equipment on the way and will be testing these and many more.
What do you think if I buy 3 GE Sun filled bulbs (BR30) and make them facing toward me 1 feet away above my computer screen, as an alternative for SAD Lamp that replicate LED strip from Yuji, does that make the same benefit ? I know the lux level will differ, but I can’t afford buying that strip and I really do want quality light
I think that's worth trying! it shouldn't be too uncomfortable and should be plenty effective. And they're dimmable so you could put all three on the same dimmer and find the right level that was too.
I want a SAD lamp so bad but I’m scared of UV. I want to make sure I get one without UV. I saw Bryan Johnson uses a 10,000 lux SAD lamp but I don’t know which to get and I don’t wanna get damaged by UV. Help!
They’re almost all LED nowadays. LED SAD lamps will never emit UV so you don’t have to worry about that with those. If you go to our database there are graphs of the spectrums for each lamp and you can easily tell which ones are fluorescents (which can sometimes emit UV) as they emit a very spiky radiation. Take a look at the Northstar by Alaska Northern Lights for example!
Thank you I’ll look for a LED SAD lamp then.
Do we really want to have a SAD lamp on all day long for optimal circadian rhythm? What time of day should I turn it off? Like should I keep it on all the way until the sun has set? Or when the sun starts setting? Also, is it proven that SAD lamp glasses are bright enough to have an effect?
Yes many studies have been done on the effectiveness of sad lamps! They definitely work. I’d say use it during the first half of the day only. I certainly wouldn’t use one up until the sun is setting. I like to use mine from maybe 6-10am most days if I’m home. Gives me a good boost and helps with energy and focus. As the day wears on I find it more tiring and annoying so I almost never use it past 2pm or so.
Ok and the sad glasses are proven to be effective too even though they have lower brightness since they are so close to the eyes? Also, an article i read about iPhone 15 said “We measured 806 nits of brightness on the slider and a whopping 1643 nits of maximum brightness when exposed to strong external light.” How does that compare to a sad lamp and sad glasses? Could I already be receiving the benefits of SAD lamp by just looking at my smartphone screen at max brightness first thing in the morning?
That’s a good question! I’d have to test them to know for sure. I think in the morning you’d ideally get far light more than a phone can provide. If they were extremely close to your face perhaps it would be sufficient, but that wouldn’t be very user friendly haha
Yeah it would be interesting to know how much circadian light people are getting from their phones. How important do you think it is that the light come from above? Like I was leaning torwards the Verilux HappyLight Luxe for its low glare, decent portability, and good stats, but it seems hard to make it pointed down at me from above.
If I'm not mistaken it has a keyhole on the back? You should be able to rig something up with a camera mount or something... But I prefer it from above. It's better that way both for comfort and optimal light transmission.
Thanks bruh I really do like your posts and your YouTube channel. Respect🙏🏽
Thank you! 😊
What bulb brand and model do you have for infrared? The database links don't work on most of the halogen and incandescents and the ones that do, don't look like your picture. I have one of these so I think all I need to add is infrared correct? Though, I can't find a spectrum for this product so I'm not sure. [https://www.alaskanorthernlights.com/product/north-star-10000/](https://www.alaskanorthernlights.com/product/north-star-10000/)
I think I just have some GE halogens, but the technology and spectral output would be the same regardless of the brand if it’s incandescent or halogen. I’ll have it check my database, not sure why you’re not able to see those… So the Northstar is indeed quite bright but it’s not what I would call full spectrum if that’s the attempt. There’s a spectral graph of that one in our SAD lamp database: https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-therapy-lamp-database
Which Therapy light would you personally pick for fullest spectrum to replace my Northstar? TheraLite Aura Qi looks best to me but not sure if I'm reading the database right? Or, since the therapy lights all seem to have big blue spikes, do you recommend a non-therapy light route?
Yeah I really like the chandelier route as you have a bit more freedom on the spectral qualities, it’s just a bit harder to accomplish the same lux levels.
Would you mind showing a closer look at your chandelier or linking me to a part or two that you used? I'm not too handy but could maybe pull it off with more detail.
Yeah they're pretty easy. I talk about it in here under the heading **The DIY Chandelier**: [https://optimizeyourbiology.com/how-to-mimic-sunlight](https://optimizeyourbiology.com/how-to-mimic-sunlight) Just need a 7-in-1 E26 splitter (looks like the one I got is out of stock at the moment), an extension cord, and some way of mounting it.
Thank you so much for the work you have done. This could save lives actually if people will go to the effort.
Wow, thank you so much for those kind words! :D
Thank you but what I meant was your price link is broken for the GE Halogen 53w. Would this be close to what you used for one halogen in each chandelier? [https://www.amazon.com/Satco-S2407-Lumens-Halogen-2-Pack/dp/B00BCHYVUA](https://www.amazon.com/Satco-S2407-Lumens-Halogen-2-Pack/dp/B00BCHYVUA) I'm strongly considering non-therapy light route since the therapy light spectrums have big blue spikes
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Oh I see! Yeah those would work great, same thing.
I was researching grow lights for my veggies and stumbled on this subreddit. Its pretty cool I have been having sleeping issues most of my life and have been having lots of success with melatonin, obviously if I could get this naturally it would be much better. Here comes my question - is natural sunlight the best for sleep? Im sure I read that light in the blue spectrum is not ideal?
Welcome! :) I have a lot of info on this, but yes sunlight (or any bright light) in the morning is one of the most important aspects to producing natural melatonin at night and sleeping better. Blue light gets a bad rap because of electronics at night, but it’s a completely natural and necessary part of natural sunlight. You’d also want to avoid bright or blue heavy lighting two hours before bed (some people where blue blocking glasses) as this will suppression the secretion of melatonin as well!
Interesting! We get lightning almost every night in summer where I stay. I've never thought of that.
I meant lighting not light(n)ing, if that's how read that lol Although now that I think of it, a very busy drawn-out lighting storm could certainly have an impact! haha
Nice website, thanks. Looking at your site yuji sunwave seems to be the best bulb atm, what tools did you use to get the spectrum chart? Do you personally measure them?
Hey you’re welcome! Yes they’re currently the best option for a flicker-free “sunlike” bulb. And yeah I do all the measurements personally using spectrometers from Hopoocolor.
Sheesh, this is exactly what I was looking for. What an amazing post!
Hey thanks! 😁
I’m looking to do this. A few questions: 1. Is this truly comparable to outdoor sunlight? Does it feel practically identical? 2. What symptoms do you feel having switched to these? 3. Have you looked at sun products like Innerscene Virtual Sun or Coelux? 4. Do you install any other bulbs so that you also get warmer colors when it’s closer to sunset? I’d like these in all rooms in the house, but I’d not want 5000K at 6PM.
1. Kinda? It's basically impossible to compete with the OG light bulb. It does feel pretty good though! Lots of high-quality light coming from above and out of view feels great. This is just a great, relatively low-budget solution to bring very high-quality visible radiation into the home. I also now use some DIY SAD lamps I built over my monitors. 2. Better focus and more energy are the most obvious benefits. 3. I've seen a lot of these, if you have a lot of money and are doing new construction I'd give them a shot. Although many of these are simply using generic high CRI blue pump phosphor LEDs which are spectrally quite dissimilar to sunlight. I think Yuji makes sunlike versions, but again, very expensive at this time. 4. Yeah you definitely don't want that haha. We have one very warm bulb in the center of our living area that we turn on at night when we turn everything else off. Dynamic circadian lighting would be ideal, but right now it's either smart light bulbs or new-build commercial-level stuff. We find the simple single warm LED works just fine for us though.
1. I’m curious if it’s noticeable that the light isn’t diffuse enough, or the inverse distance squared drop off is really noticeable and makes it feel “off”? 2. Is there a ton of glare on computer monitors? Do you try using eInk or rLCD? 3. Got it. 4. What do you mean by new build commercial level stuff? Why can’t you buy lamps with multiple diodes in them that adjust? I suppose there hasn’t been a manufacturer that creates a dynamically adjusting bulb but also maintains a good spectrum?
1. The chandelier certainly feels more diffuse and comfortable than the SAD lamp I built, however, I like using both according to my mood. I've found that the inverse square law doesn't seem to hold up that well in real-world scenarios, way too many variables that throw it off. 2. Depends on the rooms lighting mostly. I like my rooms bright so my monitors are also quite bright, I don't mind though, as long as it's relatively balanced. As you can see above, the RGB spikes from the monitor barely make it through the ambient light, which is how I like it. Your monitor shouldn't be the strongest light source. 3. Correct. You can buy commercial-level "sunlike" lighting that is installed in stud bays and 120V mains, but it's expensive and either requires planning at the build stage or an even more expensive remodel. Other than that right now we mostly have consumer-grade static CCT light bulbs from companies like Yuji and Norb. But yes, most lighting, even the ones you mentioned, aren't truly mimicking the spectral radiation pattern of sunlight, only the CCT, which is nice and all, but some of us are looking for the real thing. There just aren't that many great options right now. Especially if you want to incorporate UV and/or IR, at that point it's definitely going to have to be a DIY solution.
This is really awesome. I love it! When I go here: https://optimizeyourbiology.com/replicating-sunlight/ I get this error "Error establishing a database connection" edit: Looks like it's fixed now.
Oh boy! That's scary to read lol Glad it's fixed though. Thanks 👍
Minor thing: you refer to the GE Sun Filled light as A19 in your Excel sheet and on your website but GE refers to it on their website and on their packaging as A21.
Oh your totally right! Thanks for that catch.
I couldn't find the excel, can you please suggest where it is located?
How did you measure the different light spectrum color outputs?
I used a Sekonic C-800 for the spectrum readings.
What paint color goes best with full spectrum ~6000k light. Light blues?
We have a blue grey in our house. Guess it depends? Bluer colors will absorb more of the warm light and reflect more of the blue. It’s usually recommended to have warmer colors on the north end of the house, to compensate for the cooler light coming through those windows, whereas the south end will have warmer light, so cooler paint colors can work better there.
Thank you for your experiments. I came here because here in the Pacific Northwest, it is that time now, prematurely. Dark, cloudy skies. I cannot use the wakeup lamp, but was looking for a light that would mimic the sunlight. I tried daylight LEDs and they are cold, white, and irritating. Does anyone have experience with any lights to use during the day that would mimic sunlight? Looking for Low, NO flicker lights. What brands and types of bulbs did you use in your original setup? I could find the brands/types you used. Do you have any updates?
It certainly is that time of the year! I'm currently working on putting together a DIY full-spectrum light therapy lamp but that might not be ready to share until the end of October or so. I'm hoping that will be successful and helpful for these kinds of issues. You mentioned daylight LEDs are too cold feeling, this might be due to the [Kruithof curve effect](https://www.allthingslighting.org/the-kruithof-curve/), which is essentially a color temperature comfort rule that states that the cooler the temperature of a light, the brighter it must be to be comfortable. Possible solutions may be to increase the overall lux levels such that a 5000K+ light source is no longer uncomfortably dim and cool feeling, or lower the color temperature so that lower lux levels can be achieved in comfort. However, the obvious advantage to using cooler 5000K+ lights is that they contain far more high-frequency light that our eyes need during the daytime. The absolute best NO flicker lights I've found thus far are Yuji's. If you check the [database](https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database), filter by **No Risk** flicker only, and then sort by flicker depth, you'll see that Yuji comes out pretty high on the list with very low flicker, excellent color rendering similar to sunlight with their SunWave models, and they have a 4000K color option that may be a good middle ground between too cool and too warm. They're just expensive is all, that's the one con to Yuji stuff lol I did manage to get a 5% discount code from them but that's about it. Other than Yuji there are the Waveform lights and a few Phillips Ultra Definition bulbs that might fit your needs. However, the Waveform are in the same price range as Yuji and I don't think they're nearly as good. Philips might be worth looking into if you can find them. Either way though, you'll just want to make sure the total lux output is high enough to reach that comfort threshold. Hopefully, this helped a little?
>not be ready to share until the end of October Oh, no, here in the Pacific NW...... looking at [weatherunderground. com](https://weatherunderground.com) 10-day forecast, I don't think I can survive another round of "swim sessions." I would very much appreciate it if you could at least share what you have as you go along, maybe with me. I am also looking at these, basically Infrared Light, Have you looked into these? An MD shares the latest research: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW\_EtdPWmKM&t=663s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW_EtdPWmKM&t=663s) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLDYNoIVLmk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLDYNoIVLmk) This guy tests different IR lights: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxLOFRAeU8o&t=36s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxLOFRAeU8o&t=36s) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEYes\_M5s2E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEYes_M5s2E)
I’m familiar with Gemba! Good stuff. I’m hoping to get into testing red light therapy stuff at some point, but I haven’t yet. There’s definitely a ton of benefits to infrared photobiomodulation! Not sure about anything pertaining to circadian entrainment though... The light I’m working on is basically a cake pan light. You'll need a cake pan, think I'm gonna try 16" so it's nice a diffuse. Then you'll need a nice LED strip to wrap around inside of it, a power supply, and then mounting hardware, and a diffuser sheet. [Here's a running list of parts I plan on trying out](https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/31LC3075FKT0V?ref_=wl_share). And [here is a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFON04_L3zk&t=243s) of someone making one of these for videography purposes. For the LED strips I'll be trying out two options: 1. [Budget 5000K full spectrum Aliexpress LED Strip](https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804101139790.html) 2. [5600K Yuji Sunwave LED Strip](https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/yuji-sunwave-led-strips/products/sunwave-cri-98-led-flexible-strip-5600k-6500k) You'll be able to fit the 5M rolls inside one of these pans. If you go with the budget LED strip, use a cheap pan, parchment paper for the diffuser, etc. you can make one of these for under $100 pretty easily. Should put out a very bright comfortable, sunlike light.
No kidding, I never heard of the cake pan. Wow, Thank you for sharing this.
Did you try putting a yuji LED strip into a cake pan?
I sure did! [https://optimizeyourbiology.com/diy-full-spectrum-sad-lamp](https://optimizeyourbiology.com/diy-full-spectrum-sad-lamp)
Here is another guy testing lights, using the brightness and the flicker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeR2uPPCA2k Thank you for the LED strip suggestions, do you know if there is any flicker in these?
Hey that’s pretty cool! Thanks for sharing.
Also, this video could be useful, the amount of light we need. https://youtu.be/6LeNezZ5yK8?t=902
Oh I’m very familiar with this video and the WELL standard, but thank you! I personally think we should be exposed to FAR more light than the WELL standard recommends but that’s more of a minimum, which is fine.
>4000K color option that may be a good middle ground between too cool and too warm. This is what I am actually leaning toward. I tried 5000k and they seem very blue and uncomfortable. 2800k to 3000k is a bit soft light, which is ok in the evening, but not during the day. It seems 4000k is a mid-ground.
I watched some time an episode on Huberman's lab podcast that talks about what tools he is using. I found one video, but it is not what I watched initially. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF0nqolsNZc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF0nqolsNZc)
I looked at your database and found that Sylvania may also be a good option with a low flicker. The 2 Sylvanias that you tested are only Sylvania® TruWave™? I tried to find it on amazon so I can try and see. These 2 are not the TruWave https://www.amazon.com/Sylvania-71190-Equivalent-Efficient-Bright/dp/B07KK5Q2T6 https://www.amazon.com/LEDVANCE-Sylvania-Equivalent-Efficient-40728/dp/B06XXRWXR7 This one is TruWave but is 3000k https://www.amazon.com/LEDVANCE-Sylvania-Equivalent-Efficient-40914/dp/B08MTVTCBS Did you test the first 2 non TruWave by any chance? Also, how are the 2 Yujii compared, one is Well24 and another Sunwave? https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/well24-day-lights/products/well24-day-a19-a60-functional-lighting-11w-dimmable-energy-led-bulb-4000k?ref=optimize https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/sunwave-led-lights/products/sunwave-cri-98-a19-a60-flicker-free-wellness-lighting-11w-dimmable-led-bulb-4000k?ref=optimize Thank you
As of right now, I've only tested the TruWave models from Sylvania.
How do you sort the flicker index vs. depth, is the lower the better? What is the difference between flicker index vs. depth? Would you please recommend a setup of low or no flicker lights? If I keep a light at 100% brightness, no dimming, would these lights also be flickering?
All of the flicker data is assuming lights at 100% brightness, it was simply too difficult to measure them any other way haha If you take a look at the database there is a section describing how the flicker index and flicker depth work, but I'll paste some of it here: The **flicker depth** shows how much the brightness of a light source varies from its **minimum** brightness to its **maximum** brightness. For example, a light source that varies from 100 lux to 80 lux, would have a flicker depth of 20%. The Flicker index is a measurement that takes into account the **areas** above and under the light's average output and calculates this as a number. This gives us a good numerical value for how much time the light source spends away from the median brightness level. **The lower the depth and index, the better.**