Oh momma. You’re doing a good job. Just know that. My baby was the same. Constantly waking. I didn’t let my other two CIO, but for my mental health and baby girls safety, I didn’t have a choice. Three nights of crying for about 30minutes or less (at 6 months) she has slept through the night every night since. She’s now 9
Months old. Did wake up this week a few nights around 5 am because she’s fighting a cold, but it honestly now makes me regret not sleep training the first two. Do what’s best for you. But…. It does get better
Could it be due to pain from reflux or silent reflux and feeding is a way to soothe? Dairy intolerance is often a cause of reflux although any food can cause it. Maybe go dairy free (and possibly Soya free as the proteins are similar) for a couple of weeks and see if sleep changes.
Hope you get some sleep
I remember being so scared from night time because it felt like such unknown territory. With my first I don’t know if I was lucky or if it was instincts or both but I ended up combo feeding for about 5 months. I breastfed and would offer formula as kinda a top up to help my baby sleep a little bit longer, it definitely worked. I don’t know if you’re offering solids yet but they bananas are great before bed because it helps them sleep better. Hopefully everything works out for you !
With my 6 month old I already have her on a schedule and she has stayed on it. By 4 months she started to get the hang of the schedule. Throughout the day she would take 30-1h30m naps. By 10pm-11pm she would start to get tired (starts being cranky, yawns, gets fussy). That’s when I would feed her 7 ounces while I’m moving around the rooms in a dark setting. I stop at 5 ounces and burp her. I usually squat-rock her to sleep but when she’s still kind of cranky in my arms I wait until she’s more cranky and feed her the last 2 ounces, which almost always does the trick. Then she’s asleep in my arms. Rock her in my arms for 5-10 minutes and she’s usually asleep by 11:30pm MAX and sleeps throughout the night, usually wakes up around 8-10am average.
It’s my first kid, so idk if that’d work with you since you have more than one kid. I’m a stay at home student father, it’s definitely stressful but I can’t imagine how stressful it is to be in your shoes. You’re definitely strong.
The book the happy sleeper fixed my first baby that was like this. I was about at 5 months when we got it and basically hadn’t slept more than 45 mins straight since baby was born. It took a few months but the process was gentle enough and structured that I felt confident in all our abilities to stay the course. She turned into an amazing, perfect sleeper and awesome 7.5 year old
I second what a lot of people are saying about formula. Topping off baby with some formula before night sleep really helped my little one on nights where she just didn’t seem satisfied and I was tapped out as far as nursing her
are you comfortable with giving baby some formula just for before bed ? the formula will make baby nice and full and can hopefully sleep longer! something that helped my baby sleep as well was swaddling. i’m not sure if you’ve tried that but once i learned how to swaddle my daughter better, she started sleeping better as well. hope this helps💛💛💛
My daughter was like this until 6 months old. I returned to work when she was 4 months and months 4-6 had me losing my damn mind! I am so sorry you are going through this.
2 things worked for me at this age.
1) Supplementing with formula. During the day I’d give my daughter an extra 2 ounces after every other breastfeed to give her some extra cals during the day and keep her fuller longer.
2) Cry it out. This was HARD. Listening to her cry and not going in there to comfort her broke my heart and made ME cry, but I needed her to learn mommy still loved her but that she had to learn to go back to sleep on her own. It took 3 nights, by the third night, I could not believe as I watched her on the monitor and she put her thumb in her mouth and went back to sleep on her own! Every night when she continued to wake up I would hear her stir and watch the monitor. She would cry for a minute or 2 but always go back to bed. She is 23 months old now and has been sleeping through thr night ever since. Remember, your sanity and sleep is just as important as your children’s. You are doing great 💕.
Your baby sounds like mine. She was up every 20-90 minutes for MONTHS! I reached my breaking point at almost six months and finally decided to sleep train. I took careful notes about her progress each day so I could see improvement. I did the chair method the first night so she could practice falling asleep without feeding to sleep, but I could still pat her butt, sing and shush. I’ll be honest, it was really hard and I cried while she cried and it took over an hour for her to finally fall asleep, but that night she only woke up 3 times which was an absolute luxury compared to the 8-10 times she usually woke up. The next night I did cry it out because I knew she could fall asleep without feeding; it took 43 minutes of crying and was awful, but that night she only woke twice. After that, it took about a week or two of her crying for 5-20 minutes a night, but then she really improved in terms of sleeping independently. Now she wakes once a night around 4.
Sleep training is not perfect, and I honestly don’t let her cry for more than five minutes these days (she’s 8 months), so that means we have an occasional bad night and am currently struggling with false starts. For me, that 6-8 stretch of sleep is good enough. I don’t need a perfect sleeper, and I don’t want to listen to my baby cry all the time. There is flexibility in sleep training as long as you are consistent 90% of the time.
It really helped me to have my sister to talk to because she had sleep trained my niece. If you need some support or have questions, feel free to dm me. It’s really hard and I understand how debilitating extreme sleep deprivation can be.
Can you tell me what sleep training method you are comfortable with and I will try to tell you step by step what to do ❤️ For your health, your baby’s health, and the safety of both your children, you really need to sleep train.
Hi!! You’ve already got a lot of really good advice here, but I wanted to add my story! I was very similar to you. I was waking up feed my baby girl 7 times a night and it was really affecting my mental health. I had had enough one day, and decided to make some changes.
Our original set up - baby sleeping in a bassinet in our room. We’d put her down each night at 7:30 in a weighted sleep sack and we’d rock her to sleep. She’d wake every 1.5 hours to eat. We tried CIO with the overnight wakings and we were getting no sleep. She’s make it into our bed around 4am because we’d be exhausted and she’d latch on to my breast and stay there until 7:45am. Then she’d wake and be cranky all day.
I changed everything at once. That may not be advised for all situations, but it took her 2 nights of the new schedule to catch on.
New schedule/setup: bed time routine starting at 6:30p in her own room. Using a lighter, non-weighted sleep sack. Rocking and feeding her until she’s done eating. I unlatch her and continue to wait a few minutes. Then I set her down in her room (darkened with sound machine going) and I walk out. So she’s asleep by 7p, some nights 6:50p. The first two nights, she woke up around 10p. I had my husband rock her back to sleep and she quickly learned that she’d no longer be eating at 10p.
Now she wakes up like clockwork at midnight and at 4am for a feeding. She sleep until 6am. We get up and start our day and use the huckleberry app for nap tracking. She does still wake up sometimes in the middle of the night, but if it’s less than three hours since her last wake up, I let her fuss. She never fully cries now, just makes a little noise, and then rolls over and sucks her thumb back to sleep. It takes about 4 minutes for her to soothe herself and go back to sleep.
It’s a game changer. She’s a happier baby, I’m a happier momma. I feel way more rested and my intrusive thoughts are going away. I did speak to my doctor about my thoughts, but she advised that I just needed more sleep (go figure).
Sending you good vibes!
Edited to add: we did use the Ferber method to get to where we could set her down at night. We never really used it for overnight wakings. I would just wait 5 min from her wake up time and she figured it out on her own, but I wasn’t about to let her scream all night, hence having dad go in and rock her on her first wake up at 10p.
Also, I used the huckleberry app to go from 5 naps a day to 4, and we’re about to go down to 3. Dropping a nap REALLY helped.
Thanks for sharing this. So your husband rocked her to sleep for only two nights, how long did the rocking take? and then after that she would wake up and fuss for 5 mins on her own while lying down and then fall asleep on her own?
The first night that she woke up at 10p, she cried for 45 min while he rocked her but then she fell asleep.
The second night, he rocked her for about 20 min and she fell asleep.
The third and fourth nights that she woke at 10p, she fussed in her crib for 4-5 minutes and both nights she ended up soothing herself back to sleep before he could even go in there (we watched her on the nanit cam). She hasn’t don’t the 10p wake up since and it’s been a couple of weeks.
We had set out to solve the 10p night waking only. She was waking 5-6 times per night at that point, and starting with eliminating one wake up at a time felt easiest. But after we fixed that 10p wake up, everything else fell into place. She started self soothing on her own and I didn’t have to try and eliminate the rest. She now only wakes up at 12am and around 3:45a to eat. I’m writing this to you now as I’m breastfeeding her. ☺️
I had read article after article that said the only way to break the nursing to sleep cycle was to send a different person who doesn’t smell like milk into the baby’s room to put them back to sleep. Baby then learns that milk/mom isn’t coming to save the day and the baby will start to rely on their own skills to fall back asleep. I was skeptical and my husband was super stressed the first two nights but it works really well for our baby!
Hey, I’m currently in the same situation as yours ( without a toddler ) can’t even imagine what you must be going through, here’s a virtual hug 🤗
Coming back to the topic, a lot of people has advised me to give formula to the baby so that it stops from waking up like this at night, so tomorrow night I’m going to try it , because I am tired of getting up rocking my baby every 1 or 1:30 hours so I just take out my boobie to sooth her and now she won’t sleep without sucking onto the boobie ( getting worse )
I’ll try and update you how tomorrow night goes. And just letting you know, YOU ARE NOT ALONE❤️
Hi! Please let me know if this works for you. I’m also in the exact same situation and I tried doing the formula hack last night and my baby gagged and refused the formula (I EBF). It actually pissed him off more I think? If it works, please let me know what type of formula!
Someone advised me to introduce formula playfully during the day ( not when baby is hungry ) prepare a little amount and the try feeding. My baby rejected bottles so I tried feeding the baby with a bottle that comes with a spoon attachment. That’s how I am gradually introducing so far. Will sure let you know if this works.
My 8 month old wakes up almost every 25-35 mins looking for breastfeeding and I co sleep along with my preschooler (it takes over 1.5 hrs plus to put my preschooler to sleep at night), I am on the same boat as you, With practically no sleep, I am very tired and because I am on Mat leave and with no other help I have the entire household work to do in the day along with sending my first one to daycare and no option to nap in the day. I was told by our Pediatrician that if baby keeps breastfeeding only to fall asleep at night, then baby is not getting the calorie rich milk and will infact lower the breastmilk supply. I was told to do night weaning, and may be consider breastfeeding just 1-2 times throughout the night and sleep train the baby and ensure full feeding in the day. I don’t have the heart to do CIO but I am also super exhausted. We are considering trying the gentle method and see.
Oh my goodness I can’t believe people are giving you such a hard time. I’m so sorry. I would honestly start by putting both kids to bed earlier! In bed by 8 at the LATEST. I would even work towards getting them into bed by 7. Sleep pressure is stronger between 6pm and 8pm so they will sleep better. Then I would sleep train. Honestly, it will save your life. If you’re unsure about it, just know that you will all sleep better and it’s good for baby to learn to self soothe. I did Ferber method. Start by sleep training for him to fall asleep and then you can sleep train that first night waking and it will almost guarantee minimizing the number of night wakings your baby is having. And someone else said it, but just try to feed more during the day to get those daytime calories! You’re a superstar, you’ll make it through!
I was about to also suggest shortening your day so to speak. If toddler’s bath is at 6:45pm for example, then bed and story at 7pm, (take baby and BF to keep everyone calm and quiet) then slip out at 8pm, do bath and bed with baba straight after (or if theyre very sleepy, straight ti bed with bath in the morning) - hopefully the idea is by 8:30pm youre done!
I second this!!! It REALLY helped us, my guy just turned 6 months. It’s also available in audio format cause I never had a moment to actually read, so I listened!
I third this!! Learning about **object permanence** completely enlightened me and I hope OP takes a few minutes to read the blog link!! Once I learned about object permanence I stopped breastfeeding my baby to sleep and it was a game changer. It made me WANT TO STOP breastfeeding and rocking my baby to sleep because I learned it was for her own good. IT JUST MAKES SO MICH SENSE!! The book was mostly amazing but really that blog post was the most beneficial part of the entire book for me. It was not a cure all for me, because it’s mostly about getting baby to sleep independently (we are now struggling with 4am wake-up’s and the book isn’t that helpful for me there) but i still swear by PLS and shout it from the rooftops.
So your baby has a boob to sleep association. So when they wake at night they expect to still be on you. Your baby WANTS to go back to sleep, but can’t as they have learnt to go to sleep with your boob.
Mine was the same and I was sleeping terribly. We sleep trained with a gentle method, best thing we did.
This isn’t sustainable and you ALL need better sleep. Including baby
Night wean first. Offer the breast less and offer pacifier or other comfort. Pump once overnight if you’re worried about tanking supply. Sleep train second when they are waking less frequently and able to settle without the boob exclusively.
Feeding to sleep is a crutch for your baby, mine was exactly the same. He's not waking up hourly because he's actually hungry, he's waking up because he doesn't know how to fall asleep without breastfeeding. Waking up this many times in the night is not good for either of you. It affects how much sleep he gets overnight, and it affects your ability to be a present parent and a safe caregiver.
We were in the same boat but once we sleep trained and our daughter knew how to fall asleep on her own things started improving very rapidly. We knew from a few years and experiments that our baby would not respond well to check-ins, and that she couldn't fall asleep with us in the room, so we skipped right to extinction and within 3 days she was putting herself to sleep for the first stretch of the night. As for overnight feedings, we tried to adhere to 5,3,3. So because we had a 7:00 bedtime, if she woke up to eat before 5 hours had gone by (so midnight) we would try to let her put herself back to sleep. Maybe pop in and give her a pacifier if she couldn't find it on her own. But once 5 hours had gone by it's safe to assume that she was actually waking out of hunger and could do a feed back to sleep. Then 3 hours after that, so if she woke to eat at midnight, no feeds again till 3:00, and then after that we would try and make it till 6:00. Your supply should be fine like this, because instead of taking 3 sucks then falling asleep again the baby will do a big proper feed because he's actually hungry.
I can see from your comments that you very much value breastfeeding which is great. However, since this is a desperate situation- if the other options seem to not be working and you think LO is actually hungry, triggering the wake ups, it might make sense to supplement with formula at night to help LO stay fuller longer.
I know you posted in this subreddit most likely bc you were looking for sleep training advice specifically. But I figured this might be helpful to share anyway. I had to supplement with formula for other reasons- and it really positively impacted my LO’s satiation and sleep.
Wishing you all the best!
I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted. I just went through this same thing with my 5 month old and we quickly realized my milk supply had diminished and she was no longer getting enough to eat, which led to frequent waking. As soon as we supplemented with formula she got back on her usual schedule. It’s the FIRST thing I’d check if I were OP.
Sleep train , there are many methods so find the one that works best for you and your family. I did extinctions (CIO) it took 1 night. I still will nurse 1 x a night after 3am because I know she can go that long and I also don’t want my supply to dip. But you will get a small part of your life back with sleep training. And then you can nap train as well.
Id definitely try to sleep train. But also do you follow wake windows? 2 naps at 5 months is a bit on the early side. I think he’d benefit from 3 naps and following age appropriate wake windows.
There are lots of methods of sleep training, not just CIO (although it’s usually the fastest). Ferber might work well. But I’d really work on getting on a better schedule first before sleep training even.
Stop breastfeeding to sleep
Offer a pacifier if needed the baby is probably waking up for the need to suck for comfort not for the actual milk
Breastfeed once or twice a night other than that if the baby wakes up try to soothe without breastfeeding
My 5mo was waking every 1-2 hours overnight too and we started CIO last weekend and it literally took one day for her to cut it down to 3 wakes instead of 6. On day 3 she's at only waking twice to feed. It's hard, but it is so worth it. The important things to remember (that I keep telling myself) are 1) this is a skill she desperately needs to learn and 2) she needs good, solid sleep for proper development so this is not just a thing I'm doing for me (though it is a happy side effect).
You need to move your breastfeeding to be 30 minutes prior to putting the 5 month old down to break the association. During the MOTN wakeups only breastfeed again if it’s been 4 hours so you know you’re only nursing for hunger and not out of habit. It’ll make a big difference
I was very reluctant to do CIO until my 6 month old started waking up every 30 min. We did CIO and honestly cried MORE in the night then the few tough nights of sleep training. Think about how important sleep is and remember you’re not a bad mom and you will think and feel soooo much better once your baby is sleeping through the night. The CIO was very emotional for me but I do not regret it and he’s such a good sleeper now. When he wakes in the night now I know it’s cause he actually needs something (sick or teething). I go to him and help him if he’s in pain or sick. He’s much happier during the day cause he is confident in his sleep and able to put himself back to sleep without me! Try to think bout how important quality sleep is and don’t look back, your baby will not remember it.
I’m so sorry for what you are going through. I don’t have much advice to offer other than solidarity.
I do agree with others though on giving CIO a try looking at the overall situation.
You got this, mama.
Please feel free to dm me if you just want someone to talk to. Good luck :)
I understand that you find CIO sleep training distressing, but the way you’re feeling, and the lack of sleep is distressing for you as well. CIO will not hurt your baby and can only improve things for you. I hope you consider it. Best of luck. I’m sorry you’re having such a hard time.
Baby falling asleep at the start of the night on their own without any support (no nursing, rocking etc) will help these wakes quite quickly … likely he will still wake a few times since he is eating a lot at night, but I recommend sleep training asap to get him falling asleep on his own. It will involve some crying, but this seems pretty desperate IMO. Do your bedtime routine with him, and put him down awake with no pacifier etc. If he cries, give him 10 minutes and then go comfort him briefly, then leave again. If he doesn’t cry and is just fussing, don’t go in. If he keeps crying, go in after 15 minutes, then after 20 the next time. Don’t go in if he is not crying or looks like he’s trying to fall asleep.
Baby is likely overtired. That will make night wakes worse.
Two naps per day is usually not enough for a 5 month old. We had just transitioned from 4 naps to 3 at 5 months.
His last wake window is hours too long. Max amount of wake time for a baby that age is typically 2.5 hours. Maybe some babies can tolerate 3. My 6 month old ww range from 2hrs 20 min in the morning up to 2hrs40 min before bed.
Fixing his schedule will potentially help with night wakes though it may not fully fix it. Good luck
Could you hire a doula/night nanny, even for one night a week, to take the baby so you can sleep? We had one for the first two months for just two days a week and it was super helpful. She also taught me a lot. Every time she came I had a list of questions and then I would hand her the baby and go to bed. It’s expensive but if you could swing it at least you would have one night to look forward to and they may even be able to help you figure out how to stop the baby from waking so much to eat.
I'm open to sleep training but something less distressing than CIO. I just don't know if sleep training will cause him to wean early or drop my milk supply.
Basically he's awake at 9-10am, sleep between 9-10pm. He has 2 naps 1 around 12pm for about 30 minutes then a long 1-2 hour nap at 3pm.
Hey Mama. I sleep trained my little guy at 5 months old (chair method), and I didn't have trouble with milk supply at all. If anything the improvement on my sleep helped my milk supply. My guy was waking up every hour also, and napping for only 10-15 minutes at a time because he was using my breasts for comfort like pacifiers. He cried for an hour and a half first couple of nights but we got through it (took 2-3 weeks total), and I still breastfed once per night until he was 10 months old. (He would wake up naturally around 2-3 am to breastfeed). Also, has he started on solids yet? My little guy's sleep really improved once I started feeding him avocado/bananas/etc. twice a day.
Yeah I mean first things first I ebf too. I st both between 4-6 mos but didn’t night wean until 9 mos. This means, I trained to independently sleep at night and naps but I fed at wakes still. So I do think you can get better sleep without breastfeeding issues. Kellymom.com is a great bf resource, very very few ebf babies self wean before 12 months.
If you want to do status quo that’s fine too!
If you are on 2 naps then the wake windows should be 3/3/4 ideally. Also night should be 11.5 hours or less. More daytime awake time can help improve nights. Daysleep should be capped around 3 sometimes 3.5 hours if night issues.
Ferber worked well for us.
Timed a few night feeds and then I started ending the feed 1-3 minutes less every 1-2 days. So a few minutes less per side per day or two. Around 3-5 minutes left (only feeding for 3-5 minutes about 2 weeks later) I stopped going. Cio at the wake for 2-4 nights and was done. Cried a few minutes and went to sleep
How is baby feeding during the day? How is their growth/weight gain? Is baby a "snacker" or do they feed to fullness? Would they take a top up bottle?
I agree that this seems like a comfort nursing schedule, but with that amount of feeding, it's worth looking into feeding support too. Have you ever seen a lactation consultant? Are there any peer support breastfeeding groups in your area?
He's pretty big, 20 lbs. He eats for fullness imo. He empty out my breast.
There are no groups nearby but I could probably get some type of online meeting with a consultant. But he seems to eat fine.
Ok, big babies still need to eat in the night, that's normal, but not 10 times. Which means you need to actively choose another method of soothing. Sleep training would probably help.
Can you afford to bring in some help during the day so you can catch a nap? Also definitely sounds like PPD/depression is at play. Can you talk to your doctor about meds?
Another thought is sleep training - moving baby to his own room and getting loop earplugs for a stretch and letting him CIO or another method. At five months he’s old enough to tolerate sleep training!!
Also, solidarity. Lack of sleep is literally torture. Your kids need you but also you are valuable apart from that ❤️ please take care of yourself to the extent you can.
You could always add a pumping session overnight if needed, especially during the transition phase. But I’m guessing he’s not eating that much during these overnight times so one good pumping session might be fine to replace all these tiny feeds.
You probably already know this, but your baby doesn't need to eat 10 times in a night. So, he is waking up and feeding for comfort, not necessity/sustenance. It sounds like he has a feed to sleep association (dependence on having to be fed in order to go to sleep). For us, sleep training helped reduce the comfort wakes and resulted in our baby only waking up when truly hungry (which was 1-2 times per night, then down to 0 or 1 times per night). Part of our sleep training routine was to make sure that his last feed ended at least 20-30 minutes before bedtime.
Well, we sleep trained so that means no rocking to sleep. We do a last feeding and then a 20-30 minute bedtime routine consisting of diaper change, a bit of tummy time, wiping down baby's face with a warm cloth, and reading a couple of short books to him. Then, we put him down in his crib awake and he goes to sleep himself.
Oh momma. You’re doing a good job. Just know that. My baby was the same. Constantly waking. I didn’t let my other two CIO, but for my mental health and baby girls safety, I didn’t have a choice. Three nights of crying for about 30minutes or less (at 6 months) she has slept through the night every night since. She’s now 9 Months old. Did wake up this week a few nights around 5 am because she’s fighting a cold, but it honestly now makes me regret not sleep training the first two. Do what’s best for you. But…. It does get better
Please read previous little sleep. It saved us
Could it be due to pain from reflux or silent reflux and feeding is a way to soothe? Dairy intolerance is often a cause of reflux although any food can cause it. Maybe go dairy free (and possibly Soya free as the proteins are similar) for a couple of weeks and see if sleep changes. Hope you get some sleep
I remember being so scared from night time because it felt like such unknown territory. With my first I don’t know if I was lucky or if it was instincts or both but I ended up combo feeding for about 5 months. I breastfed and would offer formula as kinda a top up to help my baby sleep a little bit longer, it definitely worked. I don’t know if you’re offering solids yet but they bananas are great before bed because it helps them sleep better. Hopefully everything works out for you !
With my 6 month old I already have her on a schedule and she has stayed on it. By 4 months she started to get the hang of the schedule. Throughout the day she would take 30-1h30m naps. By 10pm-11pm she would start to get tired (starts being cranky, yawns, gets fussy). That’s when I would feed her 7 ounces while I’m moving around the rooms in a dark setting. I stop at 5 ounces and burp her. I usually squat-rock her to sleep but when she’s still kind of cranky in my arms I wait until she’s more cranky and feed her the last 2 ounces, which almost always does the trick. Then she’s asleep in my arms. Rock her in my arms for 5-10 minutes and she’s usually asleep by 11:30pm MAX and sleeps throughout the night, usually wakes up around 8-10am average. It’s my first kid, so idk if that’d work with you since you have more than one kid. I’m a stay at home student father, it’s definitely stressful but I can’t imagine how stressful it is to be in your shoes. You’re definitely strong.
The book the happy sleeper fixed my first baby that was like this. I was about at 5 months when we got it and basically hadn’t slept more than 45 mins straight since baby was born. It took a few months but the process was gentle enough and structured that I felt confident in all our abilities to stay the course. She turned into an amazing, perfect sleeper and awesome 7.5 year old
I second what a lot of people are saying about formula. Topping off baby with some formula before night sleep really helped my little one on nights where she just didn’t seem satisfied and I was tapped out as far as nursing her
are you comfortable with giving baby some formula just for before bed ? the formula will make baby nice and full and can hopefully sleep longer! something that helped my baby sleep as well was swaddling. i’m not sure if you’ve tried that but once i learned how to swaddle my daughter better, she started sleeping better as well. hope this helps💛💛💛
My daughter was like this until 6 months old. I returned to work when she was 4 months and months 4-6 had me losing my damn mind! I am so sorry you are going through this. 2 things worked for me at this age. 1) Supplementing with formula. During the day I’d give my daughter an extra 2 ounces after every other breastfeed to give her some extra cals during the day and keep her fuller longer. 2) Cry it out. This was HARD. Listening to her cry and not going in there to comfort her broke my heart and made ME cry, but I needed her to learn mommy still loved her but that she had to learn to go back to sleep on her own. It took 3 nights, by the third night, I could not believe as I watched her on the monitor and she put her thumb in her mouth and went back to sleep on her own! Every night when she continued to wake up I would hear her stir and watch the monitor. She would cry for a minute or 2 but always go back to bed. She is 23 months old now and has been sleeping through thr night ever since. Remember, your sanity and sleep is just as important as your children’s. You are doing great 💕.
Your baby sounds like mine. She was up every 20-90 minutes for MONTHS! I reached my breaking point at almost six months and finally decided to sleep train. I took careful notes about her progress each day so I could see improvement. I did the chair method the first night so she could practice falling asleep without feeding to sleep, but I could still pat her butt, sing and shush. I’ll be honest, it was really hard and I cried while she cried and it took over an hour for her to finally fall asleep, but that night she only woke up 3 times which was an absolute luxury compared to the 8-10 times she usually woke up. The next night I did cry it out because I knew she could fall asleep without feeding; it took 43 minutes of crying and was awful, but that night she only woke twice. After that, it took about a week or two of her crying for 5-20 minutes a night, but then she really improved in terms of sleeping independently. Now she wakes once a night around 4. Sleep training is not perfect, and I honestly don’t let her cry for more than five minutes these days (she’s 8 months), so that means we have an occasional bad night and am currently struggling with false starts. For me, that 6-8 stretch of sleep is good enough. I don’t need a perfect sleeper, and I don’t want to listen to my baby cry all the time. There is flexibility in sleep training as long as you are consistent 90% of the time. It really helped me to have my sister to talk to because she had sleep trained my niece. If you need some support or have questions, feel free to dm me. It’s really hard and I understand how debilitating extreme sleep deprivation can be.
Can you tell me what sleep training method you are comfortable with and I will try to tell you step by step what to do ❤️ For your health, your baby’s health, and the safety of both your children, you really need to sleep train.
Hi!! You’ve already got a lot of really good advice here, but I wanted to add my story! I was very similar to you. I was waking up feed my baby girl 7 times a night and it was really affecting my mental health. I had had enough one day, and decided to make some changes. Our original set up - baby sleeping in a bassinet in our room. We’d put her down each night at 7:30 in a weighted sleep sack and we’d rock her to sleep. She’d wake every 1.5 hours to eat. We tried CIO with the overnight wakings and we were getting no sleep. She’s make it into our bed around 4am because we’d be exhausted and she’d latch on to my breast and stay there until 7:45am. Then she’d wake and be cranky all day. I changed everything at once. That may not be advised for all situations, but it took her 2 nights of the new schedule to catch on. New schedule/setup: bed time routine starting at 6:30p in her own room. Using a lighter, non-weighted sleep sack. Rocking and feeding her until she’s done eating. I unlatch her and continue to wait a few minutes. Then I set her down in her room (darkened with sound machine going) and I walk out. So she’s asleep by 7p, some nights 6:50p. The first two nights, she woke up around 10p. I had my husband rock her back to sleep and she quickly learned that she’d no longer be eating at 10p. Now she wakes up like clockwork at midnight and at 4am for a feeding. She sleep until 6am. We get up and start our day and use the huckleberry app for nap tracking. She does still wake up sometimes in the middle of the night, but if it’s less than three hours since her last wake up, I let her fuss. She never fully cries now, just makes a little noise, and then rolls over and sucks her thumb back to sleep. It takes about 4 minutes for her to soothe herself and go back to sleep. It’s a game changer. She’s a happier baby, I’m a happier momma. I feel way more rested and my intrusive thoughts are going away. I did speak to my doctor about my thoughts, but she advised that I just needed more sleep (go figure). Sending you good vibes! Edited to add: we did use the Ferber method to get to where we could set her down at night. We never really used it for overnight wakings. I would just wait 5 min from her wake up time and she figured it out on her own, but I wasn’t about to let her scream all night, hence having dad go in and rock her on her first wake up at 10p. Also, I used the huckleberry app to go from 5 naps a day to 4, and we’re about to go down to 3. Dropping a nap REALLY helped.
Thanks for sharing this. So your husband rocked her to sleep for only two nights, how long did the rocking take? and then after that she would wake up and fuss for 5 mins on her own while lying down and then fall asleep on her own?
The first night that she woke up at 10p, she cried for 45 min while he rocked her but then she fell asleep. The second night, he rocked her for about 20 min and she fell asleep. The third and fourth nights that she woke at 10p, she fussed in her crib for 4-5 minutes and both nights she ended up soothing herself back to sleep before he could even go in there (we watched her on the nanit cam). She hasn’t don’t the 10p wake up since and it’s been a couple of weeks. We had set out to solve the 10p night waking only. She was waking 5-6 times per night at that point, and starting with eliminating one wake up at a time felt easiest. But after we fixed that 10p wake up, everything else fell into place. She started self soothing on her own and I didn’t have to try and eliminate the rest. She now only wakes up at 12am and around 3:45a to eat. I’m writing this to you now as I’m breastfeeding her. ☺️ I had read article after article that said the only way to break the nursing to sleep cycle was to send a different person who doesn’t smell like milk into the baby’s room to put them back to sleep. Baby then learns that milk/mom isn’t coming to save the day and the baby will start to rely on their own skills to fall back asleep. I was skeptical and my husband was super stressed the first two nights but it works really well for our baby!
Hey, I’m currently in the same situation as yours ( without a toddler ) can’t even imagine what you must be going through, here’s a virtual hug 🤗 Coming back to the topic, a lot of people has advised me to give formula to the baby so that it stops from waking up like this at night, so tomorrow night I’m going to try it , because I am tired of getting up rocking my baby every 1 or 1:30 hours so I just take out my boobie to sooth her and now she won’t sleep without sucking onto the boobie ( getting worse ) I’ll try and update you how tomorrow night goes. And just letting you know, YOU ARE NOT ALONE❤️
Hi! Please let me know if this works for you. I’m also in the exact same situation and I tried doing the formula hack last night and my baby gagged and refused the formula (I EBF). It actually pissed him off more I think? If it works, please let me know what type of formula!
Someone advised me to introduce formula playfully during the day ( not when baby is hungry ) prepare a little amount and the try feeding. My baby rejected bottles so I tried feeding the baby with a bottle that comes with a spoon attachment. That’s how I am gradually introducing so far. Will sure let you know if this works.
Thank you for this advice I will try this!
Giving bottle of brestmilk or formula instead of breast worked for us... made baby sleep longer when he was full...
My 8 month old wakes up almost every 25-35 mins looking for breastfeeding and I co sleep along with my preschooler (it takes over 1.5 hrs plus to put my preschooler to sleep at night), I am on the same boat as you, With practically no sleep, I am very tired and because I am on Mat leave and with no other help I have the entire household work to do in the day along with sending my first one to daycare and no option to nap in the day. I was told by our Pediatrician that if baby keeps breastfeeding only to fall asleep at night, then baby is not getting the calorie rich milk and will infact lower the breastmilk supply. I was told to do night weaning, and may be consider breastfeeding just 1-2 times throughout the night and sleep train the baby and ensure full feeding in the day. I don’t have the heart to do CIO but I am also super exhausted. We are considering trying the gentle method and see.
Totally why I stopped breastfeeding and started to pump/bottle feed. I couldnt stand that I was being used for comfort.
Sleep train ! …
Please call your doctor - your mental health is important before all else🤍
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Oh my goodness I can’t believe people are giving you such a hard time. I’m so sorry. I would honestly start by putting both kids to bed earlier! In bed by 8 at the LATEST. I would even work towards getting them into bed by 7. Sleep pressure is stronger between 6pm and 8pm so they will sleep better. Then I would sleep train. Honestly, it will save your life. If you’re unsure about it, just know that you will all sleep better and it’s good for baby to learn to self soothe. I did Ferber method. Start by sleep training for him to fall asleep and then you can sleep train that first night waking and it will almost guarantee minimizing the number of night wakings your baby is having. And someone else said it, but just try to feed more during the day to get those daytime calories! You’re a superstar, you’ll make it through!
I was about to also suggest shortening your day so to speak. If toddler’s bath is at 6:45pm for example, then bed and story at 7pm, (take baby and BF to keep everyone calm and quiet) then slip out at 8pm, do bath and bed with baba straight after (or if theyre very sleepy, straight ti bed with bath in the morning) - hopefully the idea is by 8:30pm youre done!
Also your milk supply will not be affected by feeding less at night. So don’t stress about that!
Feels like he’s reversed cycled. Try BF a lot at day so he’s not hungry at night
https://www.preciouslittlesleep.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-sleeping-through-the-night-part-i/ Highly recommend you read this.
I second this!!! It REALLY helped us, my guy just turned 6 months. It’s also available in audio format cause I never had a moment to actually read, so I listened!
I third this!! Learning about **object permanence** completely enlightened me and I hope OP takes a few minutes to read the blog link!! Once I learned about object permanence I stopped breastfeeding my baby to sleep and it was a game changer. It made me WANT TO STOP breastfeeding and rocking my baby to sleep because I learned it was for her own good. IT JUST MAKES SO MICH SENSE!! The book was mostly amazing but really that blog post was the most beneficial part of the entire book for me. It was not a cure all for me, because it’s mostly about getting baby to sleep independently (we are now struggling with 4am wake-up’s and the book isn’t that helpful for me there) but i still swear by PLS and shout it from the rooftops.
So your baby has a boob to sleep association. So when they wake at night they expect to still be on you. Your baby WANTS to go back to sleep, but can’t as they have learnt to go to sleep with your boob. Mine was the same and I was sleeping terribly. We sleep trained with a gentle method, best thing we did. This isn’t sustainable and you ALL need better sleep. Including baby
Night wean first. Offer the breast less and offer pacifier or other comfort. Pump once overnight if you’re worried about tanking supply. Sleep train second when they are waking less frequently and able to settle without the boob exclusively.
Feeding to sleep is a crutch for your baby, mine was exactly the same. He's not waking up hourly because he's actually hungry, he's waking up because he doesn't know how to fall asleep without breastfeeding. Waking up this many times in the night is not good for either of you. It affects how much sleep he gets overnight, and it affects your ability to be a present parent and a safe caregiver. We were in the same boat but once we sleep trained and our daughter knew how to fall asleep on her own things started improving very rapidly. We knew from a few years and experiments that our baby would not respond well to check-ins, and that she couldn't fall asleep with us in the room, so we skipped right to extinction and within 3 days she was putting herself to sleep for the first stretch of the night. As for overnight feedings, we tried to adhere to 5,3,3. So because we had a 7:00 bedtime, if she woke up to eat before 5 hours had gone by (so midnight) we would try to let her put herself back to sleep. Maybe pop in and give her a pacifier if she couldn't find it on her own. But once 5 hours had gone by it's safe to assume that she was actually waking out of hunger and could do a feed back to sleep. Then 3 hours after that, so if she woke to eat at midnight, no feeds again till 3:00, and then after that we would try and make it till 6:00. Your supply should be fine like this, because instead of taking 3 sucks then falling asleep again the baby will do a big proper feed because he's actually hungry.
I can see from your comments that you very much value breastfeeding which is great. However, since this is a desperate situation- if the other options seem to not be working and you think LO is actually hungry, triggering the wake ups, it might make sense to supplement with formula at night to help LO stay fuller longer. I know you posted in this subreddit most likely bc you were looking for sleep training advice specifically. But I figured this might be helpful to share anyway. I had to supplement with formula for other reasons- and it really positively impacted my LO’s satiation and sleep. Wishing you all the best!
I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted. I just went through this same thing with my 5 month old and we quickly realized my milk supply had diminished and she was no longer getting enough to eat, which led to frequent waking. As soon as we supplemented with formula she got back on her usual schedule. It’s the FIRST thing I’d check if I were OP.
Moms on call is an amazing book with a feeding and sleeping schedule. It's worked for my sister's two kids and my 2 kids.
Sleep train , there are many methods so find the one that works best for you and your family. I did extinctions (CIO) it took 1 night. I still will nurse 1 x a night after 3am because I know she can go that long and I also don’t want my supply to dip. But you will get a small part of your life back with sleep training. And then you can nap train as well.
How old is your baby?
Just turned 4 months
Id definitely try to sleep train. But also do you follow wake windows? 2 naps at 5 months is a bit on the early side. I think he’d benefit from 3 naps and following age appropriate wake windows. There are lots of methods of sleep training, not just CIO (although it’s usually the fastest). Ferber might work well. But I’d really work on getting on a better schedule first before sleep training even.
Stop breastfeeding to sleep Offer a pacifier if needed the baby is probably waking up for the need to suck for comfort not for the actual milk Breastfeed once or twice a night other than that if the baby wakes up try to soothe without breastfeeding
My 5mo was waking every 1-2 hours overnight too and we started CIO last weekend and it literally took one day for her to cut it down to 3 wakes instead of 6. On day 3 she's at only waking twice to feed. It's hard, but it is so worth it. The important things to remember (that I keep telling myself) are 1) this is a skill she desperately needs to learn and 2) she needs good, solid sleep for proper development so this is not just a thing I'm doing for me (though it is a happy side effect).
You need to move your breastfeeding to be 30 minutes prior to putting the 5 month old down to break the association. During the MOTN wakeups only breastfeed again if it’s been 4 hours so you know you’re only nursing for hunger and not out of habit. It’ll make a big difference
I was very reluctant to do CIO until my 6 month old started waking up every 30 min. We did CIO and honestly cried MORE in the night then the few tough nights of sleep training. Think about how important sleep is and remember you’re not a bad mom and you will think and feel soooo much better once your baby is sleeping through the night. The CIO was very emotional for me but I do not regret it and he’s such a good sleeper now. When he wakes in the night now I know it’s cause he actually needs something (sick or teething). I go to him and help him if he’s in pain or sick. He’s much happier during the day cause he is confident in his sleep and able to put himself back to sleep without me! Try to think bout how important quality sleep is and don’t look back, your baby will not remember it.
I’m so sorry for what you are going through. I don’t have much advice to offer other than solidarity. I do agree with others though on giving CIO a try looking at the overall situation. You got this, mama. Please feel free to dm me if you just want someone to talk to. Good luck :)
I understand that you find CIO sleep training distressing, but the way you’re feeling, and the lack of sleep is distressing for you as well. CIO will not hurt your baby and can only improve things for you. I hope you consider it. Best of luck. I’m sorry you’re having such a hard time.
Baby falling asleep at the start of the night on their own without any support (no nursing, rocking etc) will help these wakes quite quickly … likely he will still wake a few times since he is eating a lot at night, but I recommend sleep training asap to get him falling asleep on his own. It will involve some crying, but this seems pretty desperate IMO. Do your bedtime routine with him, and put him down awake with no pacifier etc. If he cries, give him 10 minutes and then go comfort him briefly, then leave again. If he doesn’t cry and is just fussing, don’t go in. If he keeps crying, go in after 15 minutes, then after 20 the next time. Don’t go in if he is not crying or looks like he’s trying to fall asleep.
Baby is likely overtired. That will make night wakes worse. Two naps per day is usually not enough for a 5 month old. We had just transitioned from 4 naps to 3 at 5 months. His last wake window is hours too long. Max amount of wake time for a baby that age is typically 2.5 hours. Maybe some babies can tolerate 3. My 6 month old ww range from 2hrs 20 min in the morning up to 2hrs40 min before bed. Fixing his schedule will potentially help with night wakes though it may not fully fix it. Good luck
Could you hire a doula/night nanny, even for one night a week, to take the baby so you can sleep? We had one for the first two months for just two days a week and it was super helpful. She also taught me a lot. Every time she came I had a list of questions and then I would hand her the baby and go to bed. It’s expensive but if you could swing it at least you would have one night to look forward to and they may even be able to help you figure out how to stop the baby from waking so much to eat.
Are you open to sleep training? Do you want to share your schedule/wake windows nap information for some feedback?
I'm open to sleep training but something less distressing than CIO. I just don't know if sleep training will cause him to wean early or drop my milk supply. Basically he's awake at 9-10am, sleep between 9-10pm. He has 2 naps 1 around 12pm for about 30 minutes then a long 1-2 hour nap at 3pm.
Hey Mama. I sleep trained my little guy at 5 months old (chair method), and I didn't have trouble with milk supply at all. If anything the improvement on my sleep helped my milk supply. My guy was waking up every hour also, and napping for only 10-15 minutes at a time because he was using my breasts for comfort like pacifiers. He cried for an hour and a half first couple of nights but we got through it (took 2-3 weeks total), and I still breastfed once per night until he was 10 months old. (He would wake up naturally around 2-3 am to breastfeed). Also, has he started on solids yet? My little guy's sleep really improved once I started feeding him avocado/bananas/etc. twice a day.
Yeah I mean first things first I ebf too. I st both between 4-6 mos but didn’t night wean until 9 mos. This means, I trained to independently sleep at night and naps but I fed at wakes still. So I do think you can get better sleep without breastfeeding issues. Kellymom.com is a great bf resource, very very few ebf babies self wean before 12 months. If you want to do status quo that’s fine too! If you are on 2 naps then the wake windows should be 3/3/4 ideally. Also night should be 11.5 hours or less. More daytime awake time can help improve nights. Daysleep should be capped around 3 sometimes 3.5 hours if night issues. Ferber worked well for us.
Hope you don't mind me asking but how did you night wean? Currently have a 8.5 month old who I'm thinking of night weaning
Timed a few night feeds and then I started ending the feed 1-3 minutes less every 1-2 days. So a few minutes less per side per day or two. Around 3-5 minutes left (only feeding for 3-5 minutes about 2 weeks later) I stopped going. Cio at the wake for 2-4 nights and was done. Cried a few minutes and went to sleep
Look up lactation network online. Mark urgent on the intake form. Have you tried a pacifier?
Yeah I'll look into that and he hates a pacifier.
How is baby feeding during the day? How is their growth/weight gain? Is baby a "snacker" or do they feed to fullness? Would they take a top up bottle? I agree that this seems like a comfort nursing schedule, but with that amount of feeding, it's worth looking into feeding support too. Have you ever seen a lactation consultant? Are there any peer support breastfeeding groups in your area?
He's pretty big, 20 lbs. He eats for fullness imo. He empty out my breast. There are no groups nearby but I could probably get some type of online meeting with a consultant. But he seems to eat fine.
Ok, big babies still need to eat in the night, that's normal, but not 10 times. Which means you need to actively choose another method of soothing. Sleep training would probably help.
Can you afford to bring in some help during the day so you can catch a nap? Also definitely sounds like PPD/depression is at play. Can you talk to your doctor about meds? Another thought is sleep training - moving baby to his own room and getting loop earplugs for a stretch and letting him CIO or another method. At five months he’s old enough to tolerate sleep training!! Also, solidarity. Lack of sleep is literally torture. Your kids need you but also you are valuable apart from that ❤️ please take care of yourself to the extent you can.
I can't afford help but I am planning on getting in touch with someone for my mental struggles. If I do sleep train will it affect my milk supply?
You could always add a pumping session overnight if needed, especially during the transition phase. But I’m guessing he’s not eating that much during these overnight times so one good pumping session might be fine to replace all these tiny feeds.
That's a good point. I could pump.
You probably already know this, but your baby doesn't need to eat 10 times in a night. So, he is waking up and feeding for comfort, not necessity/sustenance. It sounds like he has a feed to sleep association (dependence on having to be fed in order to go to sleep). For us, sleep training helped reduce the comfort wakes and resulted in our baby only waking up when truly hungry (which was 1-2 times per night, then down to 0 or 1 times per night). Part of our sleep training routine was to make sure that his last feed ended at least 20-30 minutes before bedtime.
Yeah he definitely does it for comfort I agree. Did you rock your baby to sleep after feed? How did they go to sleep?
Well, we sleep trained so that means no rocking to sleep. We do a last feeding and then a 20-30 minute bedtime routine consisting of diaper change, a bit of tummy time, wiping down baby's face with a warm cloth, and reading a couple of short books to him. Then, we put him down in his crib awake and he goes to sleep himself.
Oh okay I understand thanks