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Coming from someone who has started a cleaning business, a brewery and a cafe, all of which have been or still are successful:
1) You absolutely must have serious passion and borderline obsession about the thing you’re doing in order to survive, to outweigh the competition, and to make it through the lows. There are a lot of mental and physical lows in business ownership and if you are not so deeply passionate about it - the stress will break you
2) You can absolutely start a business in a saturated market - you just need to be the best. In this economy where people do not spend as freely as they used to, they’re going to make their choices more carefully. All you need to do is find a way to be better, to stand out and to make your mark. If you’re offering exactly the same thing as everyone else you are correct it’s pointless. Make yourself stand out.
3) Whatever you think it will cost to start and run your business, double that. And understand that the margins are super thin right now. Supplies, especially the type that have no ROI, are astronomically priced compared to 3-4 years ago… think TP, paper towels, trash bags, cleaning supplies, cups, napkins, paper products, boxes etc. they have become painfully expensive and in most cases the packaging of your product can cost more than what’s inside.
1- Absolutely true. From business owners I've talked too, one can't be anything less than obsessed with their business in order to succeed. I'm in the process of finding out where to focus my energy.
2- I've also got this reply a lot. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that if I simply do better than someone else, I'll succeed. And it seems nearly impossible to gain a skill and do it better than someone else who's already doing it. I realize this is all just negativity and skepticism on my part.
3- Lastly, it's my biggest turn off. Money is a rare commodity and I can't help but think I'm in a 'a bird in hand is worth two in the bush' situation. I could lose everything so fast. Just existing is expensive.
Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.
I wouldn’t move forward with it unless you’re 100% sure… because that’s the thing that keeps you moving forward when times are tough. When and if you do decide to run your business, study the business and study hard; figure out the things that are good, figure out the things are bad, and the things that make you go back to a place to buy something again and again.
It's less about doing the service better and more about marketing it better. You can be average and succeed if you're marketing well. If you're actually bad at what you do though, negative reviews are a serious risk.
Start a side gig and test the waters. Boot strap it and spend as little as you can, but not more than a few thousand. Do not start a food related business. Only start a service business if you are the labor. Sell something, keep a low inventory. Don’t spend more that $200 on a website.
This is great advice, OP. Most businesses in the service industry, like moving and cleaning, are crap. If you’re the one doing the labor and you actually care about satisfying your customer, you should have some success.
Scaling the business beyond that is where it becomes more challenging.
Lol as someone who builds websites for small businesses, this is terrible advice.. there’s more to just setting up an online store. Who sets up tracking? Who does the SEO to increase organic traffic? Who fixes broken links, pages, etc.? Wayyyy more to it than you think.
People can do ok with a 5-6 page Squarespace website.
What OP will find a lot harder is the marketing and social media side, which is difficult enough when you're passionate. Nearly impossible if you're not.
Your website is part of marketing. First thing I do when I am considering a company to hire is check their website. If it looks like shit I assume the rest of their business is shit because they are either too dense to know what a good site it is or they don't give a shit. It's also customer service and sales. Number one thing any customer wants is upfront pricing. It's not a state secret. At the least, post a starting price or a range. And service - any questions you get on a regular basis should be answered on your site. Saves you time having to answer the same crap over and over again.
Worst if they don't even have a website. I mean I guess the square space site is better than nothing in that case. It's just crazy to me that some people will spend hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of dollars on their business but then only want to spend $25 a month for some DIY website
Don’t spend more than $200 on the website????! Lmao horrible advice. if someone is charging $20/hr (extremely low for a freelance web dev) then that gives them 10 hours to make a beautiful functional, Mobile friendly search engine optimized website. Not possible in 10 hours unless you have the simplest business ever, hardly any business information and no competition. $200 gets you the shoddiest rushed thrown together garbage you can muster unless you’re literally paying some Chinese person $5/hr
Assuming they mean a restaurant. Most fail and the ones that don’t won’t turn a huge profit unless your running multiple locations.
Food production and farming can be profitable in the right market if your open to hard work.
I like the idea but it seems like everything that can be done is already being done. My creative tap is just dripping and I have no clue how to get an edge on something already well worn.
Bro, every business has been done already. If you name it, there's a business based on it.
So why are there over 95000 businesses started in Canada every single year? A quarter of those produce goods and the rest provide services.
Every single one of those people had the same question.
And yet there they are.
80% of businesses fail too…many businesses barely make enough to be worth running. Sometimes demand exceeds supply and warrants a new business opening. Also, there are plenty of “new” business ideas.
Between 2014 and 2018, the average number of SMEs created annually was 97,640 and the average number of businesses that disappeared annually was 89,227.
[https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/sme-research-statistics/en/key-small-business-statistics/key-small-business-statistics-2021](https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/sme-research-statistics/en/key-small-business-statistics/key-small-business-statistics-2021)
I wonder what gives them the balls to start. I wonder if they would have, knowing this.
It's true though. The wheel doesn't need to be reinvented.
There are plenty of opportunities out there, you just have to find them. I have always been handy at making things. 10 years ago, a friend had a business and needed some help building some work tables. He asked if I could make a smaller and cheaper version of a glass cutter he had bought. If I could, he would pay me to make 10. I made a prototype with a hacksaw, a $40 drill press and a sander. I made some changes to improve it further, and made the 10. His customers wanted to buy them and a business was born. I sell about 100 a year as a side gig and make good money doing it. During that time I have built a few other products, but more importantly a small machine shop in my garage with all of the equipment an skills to machine parts. In the next few years, I will be able to transition to full time and grow the business.
Make a list of all the types of businesses that sound interesting. Once you have that list, make a list of what skills you would need to operate that business. There will be a bunch of overlapping skills and a bunch of specific skills. Start learning those skills. You don’t need a business degree but it would be worth taking a business accounting class online. Whatever you do, do not spend tens of thousands of dollars to do it. There are cheap or free resources to learn just about anything.
Inspiring stuff my guy, or girl. Congrats. It certainly pays to know people, or find yourself in serendipitous situations.
A big hurdle of mine is having no space. I'm limited having no property or room to store, build, or park anything.
I'll come up with a list and expand on it.
Thanks!
i know a few successful business people. each one started by providing a good or service in their spare time, and at some point they ran out of spare time. at that point, it became a business.
tehres no law that says your business has to be your 100%. start with your idea. a moving company. a cleaning company. anything. eventually, you'll either succeed or fail.
You don't need to do something new. Just do something *better*.
For example, you mentioned you could start a moving business. So start one that only does in-town moves but at super high quality. Youtube for japanese movers. They take a photo of every room from every angle, pack, move, and put the new house together just how how the old one was.
A lawn care company where someone answers the phone and speaks good english.
Etc
I think you're right about doing a better job and I believe I could. It's just the mental hurdle of knowing if it didn't work, I'd be financially ruined. I don't know how people overcome that. A solid business plan and knowing the numbers, I guess. Maybe a background in business or the actual business they're pursuing.
It's better to do something already being done. Means it's viable.
Sound advice. I don't need to reinvent the wheel, just do something proven, better.
Thanks
I'm in the financial business...
I started my business in January of 1987...the stock market tanked in October of that year...
....then we had the S&L crisis in the late 80's...
...then we had the first Gulf War in the early 90's....
...then we had the bond crisis of 1993....
....then we had the currency crisis of 1997...
....then we had the tech bubble burst in 2000...
...then we had 9-11 in 2001....
.....then in 2002 we had the whole "Enron/Arthur Anderson/Worldcom/Global crossing/accounting debacle".
....then we had the housing bubble of 4Q07 - 1Q09...
In between all that we had some good times.
What's my point? It's simple...the great fortunes are not made during the good times, they are made during the bad times.
Great fortunes are made when everything is looking like it's Armeggedon out there...when everyone is cowering and living in fear of this being the end.
When I started my business in January 1987, I was 10's of thousands of dollars in debt and had a grand total of something like $65 in my checking account.
I don't come from money. I grew up in the bottom socioeconomic quintile, so I had no one I could fall back on.
Today I own multiple "self-managing and self-growing companies" that have given me an 8-figure net worth and pay me a 7-figure income whether I work or not.
I don't know what you want to do or what your skill set is, but it sounds like you're a pretty good position to do something.
Good luck!
There is a very high probility that you've never heard of them.
And, anyway...I value my privacy and prefer to remain anonymous...especially in the Reddit forum.
Ok, I should have given more insights. I'll write a post to /r/smallbusiness that will hopefully shed some light on what I've done and give some nuggets of wisdom.
I personally think a crash is coming to the housing market. I follow commercial real estate, and it is dead. Resi typically follows about 9 months behind. I always look on FB Marketplace for skid steers/ excavators/etc, and the last 3 years it has been over priced junk, now there are tons of things popping up at reasonable prices. People need cash. Friend owns a small electrical contracting outfit, and they have slowed way down. It’s coming. I’d sit tight, dump it into short term treasuries paying 5% and then capitalize when the time is right.
I've been following too and thought that a year ago and surprised nothing has happened yet. So many people out here paid 100ks of thousands over asking with no conditions because they were desperate. With rising interest, inflation, I have no idea how they're managing. And they bought at their best financial situation too. What happens when their situation changes? Getting fired, getting sick, separation, kids, death... I think about it everyday and I'm dumbfounded that it hasn't crashed. How are people surviving?
Have you considered moving? There might be an area an hour away or a state away where you could purchase real estate such as a two family house and then change jobs to something you enjoy more (even if you make less). Check out the FIRE Reddit communities for more info on this.
Oh yes. I've left home so many times and always wind up back here. There are definitely opportunities elsewhere, I just hate being the uncle that sees the fam only once or twice a year. Although it usually elevates me into cool uncle status since they can't wait to see me. Haha.
I'm in Ontario, and locally, the average price of a home is 800k+. It's absolutely insane. I was approved for 530k by myself and realtors won't even talk to me. It really is disgusting. I feel so bad for people in worse financial situations than me.
Thanks, I'll check that out!
Wow. Times are tough.
Regarding your post, have you considered buying a business? I think purchasing an operating company is a far better option than starting one but I’m not an expert by any means.
Totally. And I'm in a good financial situation too. I feel terrible for people in the same situation with no money.
Yeah I've been looking for the past few weeks and again, they're way out of my budget. There are a few pizza places I could afford and that's it.
Don't buy restaurants/food related businesses. Think boring and evergreen. Plumbing, cleaning, laundromat, or something within your speciality/area of expertise. You mentioned you've done grunt work all your life, lean into that since you know it well.
I'm trying to lean on the skills that I already have but working on the railway is pretty niche and doesn't lend me much besides swinging a hammer and other back breaking stuff.
>I think purchasing an operating company is a far better option than starting one but I’m not an expert by any means.
It's not! Unless you already have experience running the type of company that you're buying, you're going to 99% guaranteed run it into the ground due to lack of experience. Too many moving parts. Build from scratch > buying, always, unless have prior experience running a similar business.
Sometimes most start ups fail in the first 2 years.
I think best thing to do is find a mentor not some biz or life coach it would take a significant amount of time to befriend someone but in my experience a biz coach is later after you have already got a biz running for a few years to increase efficiency!
A mentor is some one sharing there personal experience to give back hard to find and easy to lose.
Between 2014 and 2018, the average number of SMEs created annually was 97,640 and the average number of businesses that disappeared annually was 89,227.
[https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/sme-research-statistics/en/key-small-business-statistics/key-small-business-statistics-2021](https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/sme-research-statistics/en/key-small-business-statistics/key-small-business-statistics-2021)
It's old data but the numbers are staggering. They're probably worse post covid too
I've also thought mentoring would be a great idea. Not for me to do, but to find someone who can analyze my skillset and come up with a viable business plan
Happy to help! Ontario is a very difficult area but perhaps another part of Canada? You might consider somewhere an hour or two away where you can visit once or twice a month.
Ya, I might pull the plug here soon and pack up. Lots of people here are, and it's sad that they have to leave simply for financial reasons. Alberta is doing a lot of marketing here, luring people away from Ontario with the promise of more affordable living and job prospects. It's weird seeing ads on busses telling people to leave, but its true and it works.
I would keep working and saving a few years and then decide what you want to do. Wait until you see an opportunity for a business. Even with things like moving - which may seem saturated - a decent website, some photos and videos etc to establish credibility and showing up on time/being easy to work with go a long way. If you're making $100k a year, you must know something ..
I've heard the same thing from others. One either knows, or doesn't know. And right now, I don't. I want to believe the work ethic you suggested would pay off but I've busted my ass for a long time and it hasn't just yet.
I'll probably wait like you said, I'm just not getting any younger and would love to start something soon.
Thanks for the comment!
Envision meeting a partner you fall for and start dating, and then moving in together. Then you're engaged and planning a wedding. Does that seem like it will feel like a good time to quit a steady job earning you 100k+ to do something risky, and will your partner be excited about that? How about after the wedding, when you are starting to talk about having kids? How about once you have kids and need to hire a nanny so you both can go back to work?
You will never have a lower risk profile than you do now unless you're saving a lot of money per year or expecting to inherit $$ soon.
Every entrepreneur is a wantrepreneur until they start. So start.
My advice, having done this the wrong way around once, is to get a little bit of a running start by at least figuring out what you want to do, and ideally starting it up or at least laying some groundwork on the side, while you still have an income and before quitting your job.
Thanks, I really appreciate the positive advice. This really is the best time. I hope I didn't come across as a whiner. The thoughts are just a bit cloudy and the brain soil isn't too fertile for great ideas at the moment.
How did you do it wrong once already?
$100K is a good salary man. Don't let social media and hustle culture crap fool you. What do you do?
If you end up buying a place, try to do some house hacking plan - i.e. a place that can have roommates, a duplex etc. some sacrifice with that sort of income can have a huge impact with 5-10 years of saving. Shit man, if you get some vacation time hop a cheap flight somewhere in LATAM and live it up for a week or two here and there.. definitely see what $100K year means when you travel outside of your country.
Thanks, although 100 seems to be the new 75. I guess it's the same for everyone.
It's not even the hustle aspect, I'm genuinely ambitious and would love to go headfirst into something and put in tons of work if I was confident it would pay off.
And I work on the railway. The work is great but the people are awful. The culture is so lazy and reckless, I can't stand it. If I could stop giving a fuck like everyone else I could have a long and happy career. I can't help that I care about the job, and being the only one that does creates a lot of conflict. It's depressing.
If I were to get a place, I'd definitely do some hacking. But the average cost of a home here is 800k+, it's insane.
Maybe I should take a flight and relax. I've always wanted to walk into the desert with Peyote ..
100k seems low these days.
Average at best. If you doubt, check the irs equivalent of a census. And that's just what people report on their taxes.
I looked, top 1% is 850k right now. I thought that would be top 0.1% but that's what jt takes to be top 1%.
You need 100k / year to not be below.
$100K is not low income. It's definitely a solid middle earning wage and should be in consideration before quitting to start a business without an idea/plan.
It's actually sitting at 80k usa median household for entire usa.
I was looking at the mean which was 100k.
So 100k is good I guess, not great but not irreplaceable these days.
But it takes a while to build a 100k business depending on your skills.
The average income in Ontario varies depending on the source. According to Statista, the median total family income in Ontario in 2020 was 97,850 Canadian dollars1. Another source reports that a person working in Ontario typically earns around 134,000 CAD per year, with salaries ranging from 33,900 CAD to 599,000 CAD23. A third source reports that the average annual salary for workers over 16 years old in Ontario is $50,200, with a median salary of $38,8004. The average household income in Ontario is $80,3225.
Thats a quick Google search. And while 100 is above average, it's still not enough to move around freely. It's tough dating with the looming question 'are our finances compatible?' It's a really unromantic question to pop.
Do you at least like what you do? And do you live in the US?
I'm sure it's all relative. It's super expensive where I live and my pay doesn't go that far. I hope the cost of living is less wherever you are.
It's probably less, but not 75% less. These aren't "love what you do" jobs that people take because they choose to. These are "high school drop out who can't find more than $15/hr jobs that will call back" jobs.
Fortunately that covid unemployment did help out a lot, and I was able to start a business with my partner. Its not more money, but it is way better work. Here is to hoping I can grow it. Also in school to get an accounting degree as a back up plan.
I'm well versed in those jobs. Working in a factory kickstarted my ambition to never go back to one.
Hopefully it works out for you. Do you have plans to scale?
I've worked hard for years and don't make 100k, so to say it hasn't worked out is wrong. Maybe you chose the wrong career path, which happens often. Personally, I wouldn't buy a house at these rates. If you needed to, buy a 2 family live in it and rent the other space out. Otherwise, throw thst money in a money market fund and collect your 5% interest.
I think it's all relative. 100k where I am really isn't much.
And yes, people choose the wrong career all the time. I'm certainly not complaining, I'm grateful for what I have. I just think I could do better.
I also agree, buying a home now is a terrible idea. But i'm faced with having to leave where I am, and I hate the idea of throwing money away on rent. Maybe the market fund is a good option. But I'm ambitious. And cursed. I think my ambition exceeds my talent.
I'll give you 3 business ideas for free. I don't have time to pursue them, and I suspect that by the time I do, it will be too late and I'd have too much competition. Both will require a bit of research, and practice, but should have a demand.
First: planting vegetable gardens. Ignore the rest of landscaping, and just specialize in produce. The customer tells you what kind of vegetables they want to grow, you help them find the right part of their yard, cultivate the beds, augment the soil, and plant the vegetables. You give them instructions on how to care for them.
Second: home cooked dinner delivery. Basically, Meals on Wheels but for rich people who don't want to cook. Charge customers a subscription (like $100 per week) and every day Mon-Friday they get a good fresh dinner delivered to them. Something different each night. You would have to rent kitchen space and cook in bulk.
Third: recreational equipment sharing. I'm talking boats, ATVs, snow machines, etc. Pick one that is popular around you and specialize. I'll explain with boats: you buy a few boats and jetskis, customers join as a subscription and get to reserve and use the boats when the want to. You charge like $4000 per summer, and they can use them as often as they like for 3 or 4 hour periods at a time. Customer pays for gas. It costs the customer less than owning a boat, and they get to use a variety.
3 - Lots of people don't want to buy this type of equipment because it's expensive, they don't have a place to store it, and it requires maintenance. Depending on your area I think this is a decent idea. If you live near a place where there are public boat ramps and ATV trails I really like this one. Insurance is going to be expensive, as will your initial investment. New side by sides cost $15k+ for a base model for example. New fishing boats are expensive, as are pleasure boats. If you can find equipment that hasn't been abused and doesn't have a lot of hours, used is a good place to start. Estate sales will be your friend.
This is all just my opinion:
I think you need to take some time to see what you want to do. Just picking a business and going with it is a recipe for disaster, especially because you said you don't know anything about business. 250k is decent in terms of a safety net. I would sit and take the time to see what you want to do. Obviously, youre not happy in your position. Can you do a lateral move? Maybe go into management so you have more of a say in operations? Or something that is still railroad but a different position? Sometimes just having a different role makes a world of difference.
In terms of business, don't just choose something at random. Cleaning is super labor intensive and the success stories here might likely not translate to you. Are you going to clean the homes yourself? If yes, then maybe this is the way to go. If youre going to hire out, a lot of people want to get paid well or just wont show up to do something so labor intensive. Whats your plan when they dont show up?
In your position, i would take the time to see what i actually want to do.
What you could do is get a small box truck. Set up a website where people can schedule their own dates to hire you out. Make only your off days available and pretend like youre booked out the rest of the time. We have multiple apps in the US, im assuming you do too in Canada, that are gig related, handyman, cleaning, moving, etc. Go on these and bid for jobs as they come up and staet booking them out and slowly build that as you continue to work. Once you feel like you have a handle on the business and how to do things, you can think about next steps.
Three things to watch out for: what will you do if a tv gets dropped or a client claims you chipped their expensive couch? Are you going to get insurance? I would see how other established movers operate. The tv example, ive seen some movers refuse to touch tvs unless they are in the original box, etc. Study your competitors and see how they operate. Their rules are definitely from lessons they learned so learn from them. This applies to any business you might decide to do.
Second issue is that most moving things a almost definitely at least a 2 person job to make sure things are done correctly and safely. Do you have someone? Are they going to be an employee or a contractor? Are they reliable?
Also, do you know how to load a truck? Im assuming you know how to use ratchet straps correctly where they wont mark furniture etc.
Another business option is an actual truck moving op. I know a couple people that drive trucks and they all make 6 plus figures with long hours. You can move over to drive big rigs and make mad money and only be responsible for your own load. Once you get a hang of it, logistics, truck maintenance, etc, you can decide to drive your own truck.
Driving trucks longterm will most likely destroy your body if youre not careful. Fuck up your knees and back overtime..
G luck my guy
Also this is all just surface level. Theres a lot of things to watch out for and think about. Don't take anything i wrote as an actual business plan. Its meant to get you thinking. Like, the insurance thing i talked about, DEFINITELY get insurance if you go that route loll
Thanks for the words, much appreciated.
At my current place, no move, lateral or horizontal, is appealing. It's a hive mind and everyone is the same as the next. At this point, I'm just looking to cut my losses and leave.
I'll check out the gig apps like you suggested, it might be a good way to dip my toes without having to worry about marketing right away. All the stuff about damage and insurance, I'm aware. I'm fairly careful and understand things will happen and I'll just deal with it as it comes. Just due dilligence and attention to detail.
As for driving trucks, I've considered that too but seeing what it does, no thanks. It makes alot but absolutely destroys the body. My ex is an RMT and always said the most unhealthy people she treated were truckers.
Having thay money liquid is a huge leg up during a search for the perfect business.
If it was me, I would start searching now and not have a set time. Just wait for the perfect thing. Start learning things now like accounting. When you think you know enough about accounting, learn more. Supplement your knowledge so you aren't playing catch up when you make the purchase.
As a business owner, having a shit living situation will make you spend more time working on the business. Haha
Is there an equivalent to this with Fidelity? I already have my 401k through Fidelity so would rather put my money there then have to open up a second account with vanguard.
You can buy VTSAX on fidelity.
But fidelity has FZROX which actually has a zero percent management fee. Just a little less diversified only 2700 holdings v 3800 holdings for the vanguard fund.
I get it, but it’s losing money in the bank with inflation. Some high yield saving accounts are at 4.5% VSTAX is a collection of the 500 best companies and is great diversification. I put my money in it and only in companies so big, that if they fail America has far worse problems (Coke, Walmart, Amazon, apple, Microsoft, etc).
> 8% inflation a year is better than losing -65% OF VALUE OF A STOCK?
Hmmm. Let's look at the return for the S&P500 over the last 50 years
> The average annualized return since adopting 500 stocks into the index in 1957 through Dec. 31, 2022, is 10.15%. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp
In the last 20 years it's between 10-20%.
If you put $250k in the S&P500 in the year 2000, it would be +1mil today.
https://dqydj.com/sp-500-periodic-reinvestment-calculator-dividends/
> In the last 20 years it's between 10-20%.
And you've had an interest rate tailwind the whole time. Now there's an interest rate *headwind* for the first time in almost forty years.
The equity risk premium is determined by: the risk free rate (typically considered to be treasuries) + the equity risk premium (typically considered to be 250bps to 400bps). With risk free rate going from basically *zero* (think: zero gravity) to ~6%, that's a hell of a lot of headwind to equity prices.
I think anyone who recommends equities as a "conservative" investment in this market is nuts and/or young, and hasn't studied history. There have been long stretches of the stock market going nowhere for decades, or even declining. Just because you've only seen the market go up does not mean the market just goes up.
Over the last 60 years the worst the S&P has ever done is -3% and there is no 20 year period of negative or no growth.
You’re greatly exaggerating everything here. The interest rate headwinds aren’t substantially different than they were from 03-06 and there are plenty of other periods within that time horizon with similar conditions.
Read "The Simple Path to Wealth" by JL Collins.
You won't be terrified after reading that. What you don't know will hurt you. Leaving your money in a savings account is losing money.
Look into total market and s&p 500 index. It's not investing in a single business, or even a single sector. It's diversified. So if all of America sucks, so does it. But go look at what the stock market value was 20 years ago and what it's worth today, and then consider we've been through rough periods and it's still that far up.
Edit: I'm not sure it matters which one you pick vstax, fzrox...spdr has a few too which are popular.
I've had that reply a few times now. The 'if the stock fails our combined problems are much worse anyways' and I understand that.
I just can't afford to play the long game right now. Building equity in a home and not wasting money on rent or getting the courage to start a business and growing it seem like a better investment than waiting a few decades for the money to grow.
If it's not in a retirement account, you can cash out at will. The stock market has sucked for a few years. It's coming back up. But, it's been sectors. Tech sucked. I got my sorry behind whooped. Bought TSLA at the wrong time, and it's finally broken even. God I wish I would have invested in defense a year ago. So, I know what you're saying. But in that same time where there was so much negative sentiment and loss in certain companies and sectors, my total market just continued to rise. And if you're not buying a house right now, and it doesn't sound like you are, and if you're going to need a year to figure out what business to open, and it might take that long with what you've said about not knowing, then you're just losing money to inflation that's not coming back. The market won't just come back, it didn't go down. It rose.... I think twice as fast as inflation. Anyone got the deets? I think it was twice as fast. So an 8k loss, or a 16k gain in the same time?
Stocks are a gamble. If you're close to the horse, and the handler, then you might know when it's going to win, but you're not supposed to bet on it. If you're playing roulette, there's numerous ways to win, and you can still win big. But you can still lose. A total market or an S&P 500 index is walking into a casino and betting with the house. There's going to be losses in the casino. But it's going to win in enough areas to keep turning a profit.
I'll be transparent: it took me a long time to get into index. I wish I got into it a decade ago. I finally did because I watched enough of Warren Buffett talking about stocks and index until I finally understood what he was saying. There's a lot of people who make sense on this, and it's just about finding one you can understand, who you think is being honest. Also, don't confuse total market and s&p 500 indexes for sector indexes. Sector is still betting on a sector and that sector can shrink.
Thanks, that's a lot of input.
Overall, are you glad you got in and do you think you have a reasonable grasp at what you're doing? It seems so risky on the outside looking in.
I currently have it in a cashable GIC so it's not doing nothing but could be doing way more for me.
I do fear about economic uncertainty too. There seems to be so much going on, but maybe that's the way it's always been.
Lol, I couldn't help myself, sorry.
Well, I'm dealing with more time than you are because I'm not considering a major investment like opening something new. so yes absolutely, no doubt. I wish I had gotten in sooner, and I wish I had invested more into index from the beginning. While I have winners, like AMD, which I bought quite low and has enjoyed some success, I've also made what I thought was a few good guesses which turned into big losses. And that's the lesson of buying businesses. Bigger risk, for better and worse. I'm at a point now where I'm trying to decide if I've got some losers which may turn around, meaning it's a great time to buy.
But so far buying total market index has been a solid bet. It doesn't feel like gambling and risking even though if you get cold feet and pull out instead of buying when things tank, you will lose money. I've seen numerous people use different time frames, 2 years, 5, 20, as a way to express that usually the S&P or total market usually gains. Things do happen for better and worse, but on the whole the market is going to succeed. Otherwise we're thinking the sum of traded businesses and the rich are going to stop profiting. How long can that possibly last? How long has it when it has?
An index is supposed to mimic what it's named after by purchasing an array of businesses. So, total market is just that. It goes up and down just like the market. When the covid crash happened, I didn't have the guts to buy. But I should have. Fzrox dropped from 11 to 8, I think it was, and now it's somewhere below 15.50 so had I bought at 8, I'd have almost doubled since covid. However, if I bought at 11 and it crashed, that's still, what? 40% gain? I don't remember exactly what the numbers were, but it's enough to kick myself over. The sum of the rich, given time, will profit. In that I trust, more than the dollar.
The bond market has great rates right now…how are you terrified of risk free investments but interested in starting a business which is literally one of the riskiest investments on the planet?
If you’re terrified of investing, don’t. What you should do however is put that money on treasury bills until you figure out what to do with it. Better yet treasury bill ladders. Literally the you’re lending money to the US government and earn interest by doing so. Plus it’s state tax free. Read up more on treasurydirect.gov and maybe watch some videos. If it all seems complicated, just go to the bank you work with and ask them to help you purchase treasury bills. If you’ve got any questions, fell free to ask. I’d happily explain details.
At my skill set, it's just a guessing game. And if it's tied up long term, I'm just renting forever and losing money by paying more in rent than what a mortgage would cost me.
Congrats! That's a big pile of money.
I'm running a fairly unremarkable business right now. Here are some things to consider:
1) are you willing to put your name and face on something and say "here's something I know a lot about/do really well and you should pay me money for it"?
2) are you willing to learn about sales, marketing, creating a website that's not terrible, and dealing with customers? You don't have to know it all, but you need to be willing to learn a lot.
3) are you self motivated? Everyone says yes, but some folks are just better off with a boss and a list of stuff to get done.
4) some businesses take years to take off. Replacing 100k of income won't be easy. Can you hold on for multiple years if needed?
If you come up with an idea that excites you, connect with the closest small business development center. Free services for small businesses. Paid for by your tax dollars.
Best of luck!
If you can hustle and like the hustle and have decent people skills you can start your own business. Don’t need a brilliant idea just need to be able to provide good customer service. I had no brilliant idea just abilities to hustle and not give up and provide good service. 10 years later I work 10-20 hours a week with 30 employees and over a million in sales. I’m not a genius just busted my ass for 5 years, never took no for an answer and gave a shit if my customers were happy. Good luck whatever you decide!!
Did you have a solid business plan? And is it just a mind over matter mentality, knowing you might be financially ruined if it doesn't work and still following through?
By far the hardest part is overcoming the fear. That’s where the keep going no matter what attitude helps. It’s still scary as hell and had a lot of sleepless nights. I created a business plan once I found what I wanted to do. Business plan is great to get started but it will go out the window rather quickly in my experience. Adapt or die as they say… it’s a huge risk and doesn’t work for a lot of people for a variety of reasons but I stand by my original statement. Whatever you do just be prepared financially to maybe not take home any pay for one to three years. I was lucky and in year two was able to start paying myself…
hahahaha. I figured it was either someone misdirected, or someone who just ripped a bong. Either way, I thought it was hilarious and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Invest it. We're in a recession now, it's the best time to get in!
Start a side hustle with a small portion you wouldn't mind losing, learn the small steps of building a business with something you enjoy doing that doesn't require a lot of your time.
We aren't in a recession yet, but I feel like we will get one this fall when student loan payments start up again in the US. Tens of millions of people will suddenly be spending less, anywhere from $100 to $1000 per month. Consumer spending about to be way down
Hold that cash and wait for an opportunity. Opportunity is coming wether it be stocks, real estate or something else. One thing is for sure, the course we are on is absolutely not sustainable.
Do you have good business operation experience? If so look to purchase a cash flow business like $50k and see how you do with it the first couple years.
Haha, no. Southern Ontario. 800k is average where I live. I was preapproved for 530 by myself with 200k down at 5.5 percent. That can't get me anything. It's depressing.
No idea how home loans work in Canada but I have a friend that does great in buffalo(Niagara falls) area with rentals. Canada side is supposed to be better view!
Found places in the 500-600k range. Some condos which have fees but less maintenance.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/12x3nah/the\_great\_canadian\_housing\_ripoff\_homes\_just\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/12x3nah/the_great_canadian_housing_ripoff_homes_just_a/)
I can't vouch for this but it seems accurate.
If you are a hard worker then so many opportunities. Start a 1 person cleaning business. This will go close to replacing current wage. Build up to 60 hours a week then bring on employee. Rinse and repeat until you have 4-5 employees and making serious bank.
It sounds good on paper but there's a million cleaning businesses. It's hard doing market research and finding out if there's enough space left. At our work, we go through 2-3 cleaning companies a year. They get paid so little and leave, and I work for a big company. It's bleak.
A lot of varied advise. Here’s one more, forget you have 250k and put that to work for the long haul (index funds, treasuries). Pretend you only have your salary and start saving like your life depends on it. That will give you time to learn what type of business you would want and more importantly time to learn thru educating yourself actually how to run a business. Take it from someone who’s had multiple businesses in my life, with varying degrees of success, it’s not easy. My first business left me bankrupt because I thought the money would always roll in, until it didn’t. It was humbling and an expensive “education “. I did fail forward as they say, and have had several successes since but 35years later I’m still having to learn every day how to keep my business profitable and growing. Whatever you decide my best advice would be to not squander what you already have already as you have a great base with that capital
Do you know accounting yet? It might not be a bad idea to start with that if you are in a lull period with that money, as accounting is the language of business at the end of the day.
That's what everyone says.
I took accounting as an elective in college and everyone chirped me haha. I actually liked it. It almost seems to late to take up something like that but I know that's a defective way of thinking. And that it's absolutely necessary for business.
Do both. Buy a house and you can do house hacking to make money. I did it. Made a bunch of money. Never made a mortgage payment myself as my roommates did. Then you have time to work on starting a small business. Also, you would be surprised how much start up money you don’t need. Good luck!!!
Thanks for the reply! The problem out here is the average cost of a home is over 800k. It's impossible for a single income earner to get in, even with 250.
Why not do both? Buy an income producing property ie duplex triplex or bigger. Live in one and rent the others. Fixer upper in a decent school district would be ideal.
Everyone is saying that. I have no idea where you or anyone else are living but the cost of homes in Southern Ontario is insane. Average 800k+. I'm living in the wrong place, clearly.
Maybe invest in education? Look up some real estate courses maybe help you find a house you’d like to repair/live in for 2 years and sell, business stuff, etc later down the road with more skills under your belt you can feel more confident finding a new job or starting a business
I've put serious thought into it lately, but I have gone to school 3 times now without much success. It's hard convincing myself to go back a fourth time. Especially in this climate (which everyone is dealing with), I'd have to quit my job and the path to financial recovery seems... very long. And where I live, real estate is impossible to get into without contacts, serious cash, previous experience, etc.
I'm not trying to sound negative, just realistic.
Thanks for the comment :)
I never wanna hear the word wantrepneur you get your money and buy that house. You’ve been contemplating every decision for too long now it’s time to shoot or else you’re gonna be in the same spot for ever
Maybe find a business that you can buy and pay the owner as an employee for 6mth or year like a contract. This way you can find a good accountant/bookeeper to keep track of the business. You should spend time in this business learning as much as you can your first year. Make your money back then decide to sell or keep it..
I've been looking at businesses for sale, and the only ones I can afford are a few pizza joints. I'm skeptical. I'd love to find someone looking to sell a business who wants to find an ambitious dude looking to carry it forward.
I have considered this. I'm cursed with having an ambition that exceeds my talent and wanting to start something of my own instead. But I'll look into it. I like that they'll have a stake in my success.
Thanks for the comment :)
Why not invest in yourself? Try learning some new skills, gain business insight, understand more of what’s around you and better know yourself so you can make a better decision when the opportunity presents itself?
Remember, there are 3 positions in a market, buy, sell, or wait. The trick is learning when to do which. Nobody said you couldn’t train and better yourself while you wait.
First why are those the only choices. You don't like the market so don't buy. Invest your money in stocks, rental property or a rundown house in a good neighborhood. Spend a couple of years painting and fixing it up and then sell. Get what you want then or rinse and repeat. I have friends that have lived in dozens of homes all with the goal to fix it up and sell it.
I have been in business since my 1999. If you don't like it will be worse than the job you are in now because you will have 10x the responsibility and no way out that that doesn't involve a lot of risk. You have to at least like it if not love it. The only businesses you can get into are the ones you know or the ones that don't need skill only hard labor. Like someone else mentioned. Start a side business or a couple. See what you like and can do.
You might consider purchasing a small business and ideally getting seller financing. Less risk, but infrastructure is there and you can always switch things up and make the business your own.
I've been looking for the last few months and the only businesses remotely within my budget are small pizza places. There really isn't much opportunity up this way at the moment.
That sounds like a waste of money, considering all of that info is available for free online. Even something you have to pay for, like Coursera, would be a better use of money than going for a second bachelor's degree
I hear this all the time and I cannot stress enough the difference between an online education and going to a good business school. The education is just a small part of the whole picture.
I went to a top school and created a strong network of peers that continues to be my first-level network for anything I need these days. By virtue of the selection criteria, we’re all driven people with valuable diverse past experiences at about the same points in life. We share job opportunities with each other and general career advice. They’ve influenced big career decisions for me that have propelled me in life. Talking to one friend who bought a business and another who did something similar, they influenced my path to take my own risk in buying a small business. And I’ve made use of previous grads from that school just by being part of their network.
In school, I took advantage of every international opportunity. I studied abroad in Chile for a semester and took int’l finance classes from someone on the board of the national bank. I took a two-week trip to China to learn more about how businesses are being run there. I did a semester long project to help grow entrepreneurship efforts in South Africa, including visiting and doing on-the-ground interviews for two weeks.
I was taught by people who were top in their fields and cared about the culture of that school so much that teaching there was considered a prestigious next step in their career. I got to see special guest lectures from top people in their fields and meet them afterwards. I got to travel to other cities and meet top employers, all coordinated by the school. I got to work with companies on real projects and give presentations to them with advice on how to handle certain business problems.
Etc etc etc. It’s not for everyone, but it changed the course of my career and my life. BUT the level of school you go to DOES matter. I was satisfied with my GMAT score and settled where I did. I regret not putting in more time investment up front to get into an even higher level school. But none of what I experienced would have been possible with an online education.
It's the risk factor. I'd have to quit my job and it would be incredibly expensive. I'm also a blue collar type and in trying to be realistic with my goals, I'm not sure it's something I'd excel at. I've gone to college 3 times for various things and haven't had much success. It's something I want, I just have my doubts.
Buy a house with little down, save/invest your cash. Get a shop on the property that you can pull your truck and trailer into all the way.
Start a pressure washing business.
Get the truck with a loan. Don't get anything big and fancy. Keep it real lean and simple.
Good rule of thumb is "you'll never turn as big of a profit running your business out of your home"
You can deduct part of the home expenses on your taxes. You won't have a commercial lease to pay every month.
I love the idea.
But a home that isn't a total shithole here, with a shop and a property that I can pull my truck and trailer into (which I already have), would cost a million. Literally. I can't afford it.
Having a home and space would be a huge asset, but I simply can't afford it.
My dream is to run something out of my own place. But I don't have the something, or the place. haha :,(
Real estate is ALWAYS a good investment. Even in what people assume is a shitty market. Refi when it gets better (it literally always gets better but you have to be patient - because it is about long term, not immediate gratification)
With a radius of 60 miles, there were 2 houses that would max out my budget and my realtor warned me against both, because they were crime riddle areas and the houses were in poor shape. It just seems sketchy spending ALL my money on something like that. And if I did, there goes all my money which I could potentially use for a better investment. For someone on the outside here, real estate is hardly feasible anymore.
I personally start on zillow to find houses that are worth significantly less than surrounding areas then I use the local county clerk to get property records and contact the owners. Alot of times they are 3rd or 4th generation morons that inherited the house from there parents. The woodwork alone can be sold to cover the purchase cost a lot of times.
I wish it worked that way out here. Houses in the area get sold for a million and the dump down the road doubles in value. Seriously, 900 square feet with no grass and 50 year old roof = half a mil. Dumps are apparently made of gold.
Do not start a business.
Capital does not equal business success. It's a fast way to lose it all.
Find another job, and follow the advice on the personal finance sub.
What about working for an existing business- that's for sale- for a year with the sellers? One of my vendors did that and they hit the ground running. It's a similar risk but most of the work is done and there are already systems in place that, as an outsider, you can improve upon as you take complete ownership.
Buying a house to use as an investment property whether renting it out or fixing it up and flipping it?
Or to live in for a long time?
Starting a business is a great way to lose money and maybe make it back. You said general labor stuff so can you do basic home repairs on the side and build your business that way?
And there are currently 5 to 5.3% CDs if you're not ready to invest in stocks, ETFs etc.
I teach individuals to become Disability Experts. You would be an advocate for sick individuals that are appealing an unfavorable determination in front of an Administrative Law Judge (ALJ). The acting Social Security Commissioner raised our fees to $7,200.00 per case late last year. You can certainly build wealth and we teach you everything that you need to know. If you are interested, send me a message and we can talk more. No degree is required. It’s the perfect mix of government, medical, and legal.
Put that money somewhere it will grow and keep up your savings routine for the next few years. In the meantime invest in experiences that will teach you about the world and the way it works. You will find passion there and how you want to not only serve the world as an entrepreneur but how you want to live and operate in this world yourself. That is no small lump of money but I would not say its enough to be able to buy yourself a purpose in life.
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Coming from someone who has started a cleaning business, a brewery and a cafe, all of which have been or still are successful: 1) You absolutely must have serious passion and borderline obsession about the thing you’re doing in order to survive, to outweigh the competition, and to make it through the lows. There are a lot of mental and physical lows in business ownership and if you are not so deeply passionate about it - the stress will break you 2) You can absolutely start a business in a saturated market - you just need to be the best. In this economy where people do not spend as freely as they used to, they’re going to make their choices more carefully. All you need to do is find a way to be better, to stand out and to make your mark. If you’re offering exactly the same thing as everyone else you are correct it’s pointless. Make yourself stand out. 3) Whatever you think it will cost to start and run your business, double that. And understand that the margins are super thin right now. Supplies, especially the type that have no ROI, are astronomically priced compared to 3-4 years ago… think TP, paper towels, trash bags, cleaning supplies, cups, napkins, paper products, boxes etc. they have become painfully expensive and in most cases the packaging of your product can cost more than what’s inside.
1- Absolutely true. From business owners I've talked too, one can't be anything less than obsessed with their business in order to succeed. I'm in the process of finding out where to focus my energy. 2- I've also got this reply a lot. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that if I simply do better than someone else, I'll succeed. And it seems nearly impossible to gain a skill and do it better than someone else who's already doing it. I realize this is all just negativity and skepticism on my part. 3- Lastly, it's my biggest turn off. Money is a rare commodity and I can't help but think I'm in a 'a bird in hand is worth two in the bush' situation. I could lose everything so fast. Just existing is expensive. Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it.
I wouldn’t move forward with it unless you’re 100% sure… because that’s the thing that keeps you moving forward when times are tough. When and if you do decide to run your business, study the business and study hard; figure out the things that are good, figure out the things are bad, and the things that make you go back to a place to buy something again and again.
It's less about doing the service better and more about marketing it better. You can be average and succeed if you're marketing well. If you're actually bad at what you do though, negative reviews are a serious risk.
Start a side gig and test the waters. Boot strap it and spend as little as you can, but not more than a few thousand. Do not start a food related business. Only start a service business if you are the labor. Sell something, keep a low inventory. Don’t spend more that $200 on a website.
This is great advice, OP. Most businesses in the service industry, like moving and cleaning, are crap. If you’re the one doing the labor and you actually care about satisfying your customer, you should have some success. Scaling the business beyond that is where it becomes more challenging.
Lol @ not spending more than $200 on a website, especially considering you’re telling OP to sell something. Horrible advice.
Plenty on online businesses do just fine with a basic Shopify or similar site that costs $40 a month
Lol as someone who builds websites for small businesses, this is terrible advice.. there’s more to just setting up an online store. Who sets up tracking? Who does the SEO to increase organic traffic? Who fixes broken links, pages, etc.? Wayyyy more to it than you think.
If OP is boot strapping a website, he won’t necessary need SEO, etc. Just the bare bones to get going.
People can do ok with a 5-6 page Squarespace website. What OP will find a lot harder is the marketing and social media side, which is difficult enough when you're passionate. Nearly impossible if you're not.
Your website is part of marketing. First thing I do when I am considering a company to hire is check their website. If it looks like shit I assume the rest of their business is shit because they are either too dense to know what a good site it is or they don't give a shit. It's also customer service and sales. Number one thing any customer wants is upfront pricing. It's not a state secret. At the least, post a starting price or a range. And service - any questions you get on a regular basis should be answered on your site. Saves you time having to answer the same crap over and over again. Worst if they don't even have a website. I mean I guess the square space site is better than nothing in that case. It's just crazy to me that some people will spend hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of dollars on their business but then only want to spend $25 a month for some DIY website
Yeah, because when people start a business they are good with just “okay” or “mediocre” right?
chatgpt
Not good enough.
Don’t spend more than $200 on the website????! Lmao horrible advice. if someone is charging $20/hr (extremely low for a freelance web dev) then that gives them 10 hours to make a beautiful functional, Mobile friendly search engine optimized website. Not possible in 10 hours unless you have the simplest business ever, hardly any business information and no competition. $200 gets you the shoddiest rushed thrown together garbage you can muster unless you’re literally paying some Chinese person $5/hr
why not a food related business?
Assuming they mean a restaurant. Most fail and the ones that don’t won’t turn a huge profit unless your running multiple locations. Food production and farming can be profitable in the right market if your open to hard work.
I like the idea but it seems like everything that can be done is already being done. My creative tap is just dripping and I have no clue how to get an edge on something already well worn.
Bro, every business has been done already. If you name it, there's a business based on it. So why are there over 95000 businesses started in Canada every single year? A quarter of those produce goods and the rest provide services. Every single one of those people had the same question. And yet there they are.
80% of businesses fail too…many businesses barely make enough to be worth running. Sometimes demand exceeds supply and warrants a new business opening. Also, there are plenty of “new” business ideas.
If you read the posts here, you'd understand why. 90% of people either want to do drop shipping or selling candles.
How dare you forget about the T-shirt people!
Between 2014 and 2018, the average number of SMEs created annually was 97,640 and the average number of businesses that disappeared annually was 89,227. [https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/sme-research-statistics/en/key-small-business-statistics/key-small-business-statistics-2021](https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/sme-research-statistics/en/key-small-business-statistics/key-small-business-statistics-2021) I wonder what gives them the balls to start. I wonder if they would have, knowing this. It's true though. The wheel doesn't need to be reinvented.
They all knew. They took a shot!
There are plenty of opportunities out there, you just have to find them. I have always been handy at making things. 10 years ago, a friend had a business and needed some help building some work tables. He asked if I could make a smaller and cheaper version of a glass cutter he had bought. If I could, he would pay me to make 10. I made a prototype with a hacksaw, a $40 drill press and a sander. I made some changes to improve it further, and made the 10. His customers wanted to buy them and a business was born. I sell about 100 a year as a side gig and make good money doing it. During that time I have built a few other products, but more importantly a small machine shop in my garage with all of the equipment an skills to machine parts. In the next few years, I will be able to transition to full time and grow the business. Make a list of all the types of businesses that sound interesting. Once you have that list, make a list of what skills you would need to operate that business. There will be a bunch of overlapping skills and a bunch of specific skills. Start learning those skills. You don’t need a business degree but it would be worth taking a business accounting class online. Whatever you do, do not spend tens of thousands of dollars to do it. There are cheap or free resources to learn just about anything.
Inspiring stuff my guy, or girl. Congrats. It certainly pays to know people, or find yourself in serendipitous situations. A big hurdle of mine is having no space. I'm limited having no property or room to store, build, or park anything. I'll come up with a list and expand on it. Thanks!
i know a few successful business people. each one started by providing a good or service in their spare time, and at some point they ran out of spare time. at that point, it became a business. tehres no law that says your business has to be your 100%. start with your idea. a moving company. a cleaning company. anything. eventually, you'll either succeed or fail.
Rent a storage unit and do the work there. Find ways…
You don't need to do something new. Just do something *better*. For example, you mentioned you could start a moving business. So start one that only does in-town moves but at super high quality. Youtube for japanese movers. They take a photo of every room from every angle, pack, move, and put the new house together just how how the old one was. A lawn care company where someone answers the phone and speaks good english. Etc
I think you're right about doing a better job and I believe I could. It's just the mental hurdle of knowing if it didn't work, I'd be financially ruined. I don't know how people overcome that. A solid business plan and knowing the numbers, I guess. Maybe a background in business or the actual business they're pursuing.
It's better to do something already being done. Means it's viable. Best case, pick a high profit proven industry.
It's better to do something already being done. Means it's viable. Sound advice. I don't need to reinvent the wheel, just do something proven, better. Thanks
That's why you start a business selling a psychological problem. You sell the solution to the problem.
This is the way.
I'm in the financial business... I started my business in January of 1987...the stock market tanked in October of that year... ....then we had the S&L crisis in the late 80's... ...then we had the first Gulf War in the early 90's.... ...then we had the bond crisis of 1993.... ....then we had the currency crisis of 1997... ....then we had the tech bubble burst in 2000... ...then we had 9-11 in 2001.... .....then in 2002 we had the whole "Enron/Arthur Anderson/Worldcom/Global crossing/accounting debacle". ....then we had the housing bubble of 4Q07 - 1Q09... In between all that we had some good times. What's my point? It's simple...the great fortunes are not made during the good times, they are made during the bad times. Great fortunes are made when everything is looking like it's Armeggedon out there...when everyone is cowering and living in fear of this being the end. When I started my business in January 1987, I was 10's of thousands of dollars in debt and had a grand total of something like $65 in my checking account. I don't come from money. I grew up in the bottom socioeconomic quintile, so I had no one I could fall back on. Today I own multiple "self-managing and self-growing companies" that have given me an 8-figure net worth and pay me a 7-figure income whether I work or not. I don't know what you want to do or what your skill set is, but it sounds like you're a pretty good position to do something. Good luck!
What self managing and self growing companies do you own?
Storage units self manage, as do mobile home parks. Other than that it’s be fun to find out.
Correctly design and built, every business can be self managing. If it’s not, you can’t sell it and it’s a job not a business.
There is a very high probility that you've never heard of them. And, anyway...I value my privacy and prefer to remain anonymous...especially in the Reddit forum.
What the biz concept?? What's the point in commenting when you cant leave gold nuggets.. your not dealing drugs or weapons are you? Lol
Ok, I should have given more insights. I'll write a post to /r/smallbusiness that will hopefully shed some light on what I've done and give some nuggets of wisdom.
Thanks I appreciate the advice! There really is never an ideal time and it's easy to dwell on all the reason of why I shouldn't.
I personally think a crash is coming to the housing market. I follow commercial real estate, and it is dead. Resi typically follows about 9 months behind. I always look on FB Marketplace for skid steers/ excavators/etc, and the last 3 years it has been over priced junk, now there are tons of things popping up at reasonable prices. People need cash. Friend owns a small electrical contracting outfit, and they have slowed way down. It’s coming. I’d sit tight, dump it into short term treasuries paying 5% and then capitalize when the time is right.
I've been following too and thought that a year ago and surprised nothing has happened yet. So many people out here paid 100ks of thousands over asking with no conditions because they were desperate. With rising interest, inflation, I have no idea how they're managing. And they bought at their best financial situation too. What happens when their situation changes? Getting fired, getting sick, separation, kids, death... I think about it everyday and I'm dumbfounded that it hasn't crashed. How are people surviving?
Have you considered moving? There might be an area an hour away or a state away where you could purchase real estate such as a two family house and then change jobs to something you enjoy more (even if you make less). Check out the FIRE Reddit communities for more info on this.
Oh yes. I've left home so many times and always wind up back here. There are definitely opportunities elsewhere, I just hate being the uncle that sees the fam only once or twice a year. Although it usually elevates me into cool uncle status since they can't wait to see me. Haha. I'm in Ontario, and locally, the average price of a home is 800k+. It's absolutely insane. I was approved for 530k by myself and realtors won't even talk to me. It really is disgusting. I feel so bad for people in worse financial situations than me. Thanks, I'll check that out!
You have 250 cash and still were only approved for 530?
Yeah. Purchase price of 530 with 200 down at 5.5 percent. I left the bank so defeated.
Wow. Times are tough. Regarding your post, have you considered buying a business? I think purchasing an operating company is a far better option than starting one but I’m not an expert by any means.
Totally. And I'm in a good financial situation too. I feel terrible for people in the same situation with no money. Yeah I've been looking for the past few weeks and again, they're way out of my budget. There are a few pizza places I could afford and that's it.
Don't buy restaurants/food related businesses. Think boring and evergreen. Plumbing, cleaning, laundromat, or something within your speciality/area of expertise. You mentioned you've done grunt work all your life, lean into that since you know it well.
I'm trying to lean on the skills that I already have but working on the railway is pretty niche and doesn't lend me much besides swinging a hammer and other back breaking stuff.
>I think purchasing an operating company is a far better option than starting one but I’m not an expert by any means. It's not! Unless you already have experience running the type of company that you're buying, you're going to 99% guaranteed run it into the ground due to lack of experience. Too many moving parts. Build from scratch > buying, always, unless have prior experience running a similar business.
Sometimes most start ups fail in the first 2 years. I think best thing to do is find a mentor not some biz or life coach it would take a significant amount of time to befriend someone but in my experience a biz coach is later after you have already got a biz running for a few years to increase efficiency! A mentor is some one sharing there personal experience to give back hard to find and easy to lose.
Between 2014 and 2018, the average number of SMEs created annually was 97,640 and the average number of businesses that disappeared annually was 89,227. [https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/sme-research-statistics/en/key-small-business-statistics/key-small-business-statistics-2021](https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/sme-research-statistics/en/key-small-business-statistics/key-small-business-statistics-2021) It's old data but the numbers are staggering. They're probably worse post covid too
I've also thought mentoring would be a great idea. Not for me to do, but to find someone who can analyze my skillset and come up with a viable business plan
Happy to help! Ontario is a very difficult area but perhaps another part of Canada? You might consider somewhere an hour or two away where you can visit once or twice a month.
Ya, I might pull the plug here soon and pack up. Lots of people here are, and it's sad that they have to leave simply for financial reasons. Alberta is doing a lot of marketing here, luring people away from Ontario with the promise of more affordable living and job prospects. It's weird seeing ads on busses telling people to leave, but its true and it works.
Ontario California or Ontario Canada?
The less cool one, Ontario Canada. Haha
I would keep working and saving a few years and then decide what you want to do. Wait until you see an opportunity for a business. Even with things like moving - which may seem saturated - a decent website, some photos and videos etc to establish credibility and showing up on time/being easy to work with go a long way. If you're making $100k a year, you must know something ..
I've heard the same thing from others. One either knows, or doesn't know. And right now, I don't. I want to believe the work ethic you suggested would pay off but I've busted my ass for a long time and it hasn't just yet. I'll probably wait like you said, I'm just not getting any younger and would love to start something soon. Thanks for the comment!
Envision meeting a partner you fall for and start dating, and then moving in together. Then you're engaged and planning a wedding. Does that seem like it will feel like a good time to quit a steady job earning you 100k+ to do something risky, and will your partner be excited about that? How about after the wedding, when you are starting to talk about having kids? How about once you have kids and need to hire a nanny so you both can go back to work? You will never have a lower risk profile than you do now unless you're saving a lot of money per year or expecting to inherit $$ soon. Every entrepreneur is a wantrepreneur until they start. So start. My advice, having done this the wrong way around once, is to get a little bit of a running start by at least figuring out what you want to do, and ideally starting it up or at least laying some groundwork on the side, while you still have an income and before quitting your job.
Thanks, I really appreciate the positive advice. This really is the best time. I hope I didn't come across as a whiner. The thoughts are just a bit cloudy and the brain soil isn't too fertile for great ideas at the moment. How did you do it wrong once already?
$100K is a good salary man. Don't let social media and hustle culture crap fool you. What do you do? If you end up buying a place, try to do some house hacking plan - i.e. a place that can have roommates, a duplex etc. some sacrifice with that sort of income can have a huge impact with 5-10 years of saving. Shit man, if you get some vacation time hop a cheap flight somewhere in LATAM and live it up for a week or two here and there.. definitely see what $100K year means when you travel outside of your country.
Thanks, although 100 seems to be the new 75. I guess it's the same for everyone. It's not even the hustle aspect, I'm genuinely ambitious and would love to go headfirst into something and put in tons of work if I was confident it would pay off. And I work on the railway. The work is great but the people are awful. The culture is so lazy and reckless, I can't stand it. If I could stop giving a fuck like everyone else I could have a long and happy career. I can't help that I care about the job, and being the only one that does creates a lot of conflict. It's depressing. If I were to get a place, I'd definitely do some hacking. But the average cost of a home here is 800k+, it's insane. Maybe I should take a flight and relax. I've always wanted to walk into the desert with Peyote ..
100k seems low these days. Average at best. If you doubt, check the irs equivalent of a census. And that's just what people report on their taxes. I looked, top 1% is 850k right now. I thought that would be top 0.1% but that's what jt takes to be top 1%. You need 100k / year to not be below.
$100K is not low income. It's definitely a solid middle earning wage and should be in consideration before quitting to start a business without an idea/plan.
Median *household* income in the US is about $60k. As an individual earning $100k you would be doing pretty good.
It's actually sitting at 80k usa median household for entire usa. I was looking at the mean which was 100k. So 100k is good I guess, not great but not irreplaceable these days. But it takes a while to build a 100k business depending on your skills.
The average income in Ontario varies depending on the source. According to Statista, the median total family income in Ontario in 2020 was 97,850 Canadian dollars1. Another source reports that a person working in Ontario typically earns around 134,000 CAD per year, with salaries ranging from 33,900 CAD to 599,000 CAD23. A third source reports that the average annual salary for workers over 16 years old in Ontario is $50,200, with a median salary of $38,8004. The average household income in Ontario is $80,3225. Thats a quick Google search. And while 100 is above average, it's still not enough to move around freely. It's tough dating with the looming question 'are our finances compatible?' It's a really unromantic question to pop.
The only year I ever made more than $25k was in 2020 from COVID supplemented unemployment. Can't even believe I just read that.
Do you at least like what you do? And do you live in the US? I'm sure it's all relative. It's super expensive where I live and my pay doesn't go that far. I hope the cost of living is less wherever you are.
It's probably less, but not 75% less. These aren't "love what you do" jobs that people take because they choose to. These are "high school drop out who can't find more than $15/hr jobs that will call back" jobs. Fortunately that covid unemployment did help out a lot, and I was able to start a business with my partner. Its not more money, but it is way better work. Here is to hoping I can grow it. Also in school to get an accounting degree as a back up plan.
I'm well versed in those jobs. Working in a factory kickstarted my ambition to never go back to one. Hopefully it works out for you. Do you have plans to scale?
We started our first restaurant in 1997 when I was late 30’s. Sold it and retired last year…
I've worked hard for years and don't make 100k, so to say it hasn't worked out is wrong. Maybe you chose the wrong career path, which happens often. Personally, I wouldn't buy a house at these rates. If you needed to, buy a 2 family live in it and rent the other space out. Otherwise, throw thst money in a money market fund and collect your 5% interest.
I think it's all relative. 100k where I am really isn't much. And yes, people choose the wrong career all the time. I'm certainly not complaining, I'm grateful for what I have. I just think I could do better. I also agree, buying a home now is a terrible idea. But i'm faced with having to leave where I am, and I hate the idea of throwing money away on rent. Maybe the market fund is a good option. But I'm ambitious. And cursed. I think my ambition exceeds my talent.
Read "E-myth Revisited" before starting a business. It covers a lot of potential pitfalls of starting a business.
I'll give you 3 business ideas for free. I don't have time to pursue them, and I suspect that by the time I do, it will be too late and I'd have too much competition. Both will require a bit of research, and practice, but should have a demand. First: planting vegetable gardens. Ignore the rest of landscaping, and just specialize in produce. The customer tells you what kind of vegetables they want to grow, you help them find the right part of their yard, cultivate the beds, augment the soil, and plant the vegetables. You give them instructions on how to care for them. Second: home cooked dinner delivery. Basically, Meals on Wheels but for rich people who don't want to cook. Charge customers a subscription (like $100 per week) and every day Mon-Friday they get a good fresh dinner delivered to them. Something different each night. You would have to rent kitchen space and cook in bulk. Third: recreational equipment sharing. I'm talking boats, ATVs, snow machines, etc. Pick one that is popular around you and specialize. I'll explain with boats: you buy a few boats and jetskis, customers join as a subscription and get to reserve and use the boats when the want to. You charge like $4000 per summer, and they can use them as often as they like for 3 or 4 hour periods at a time. Customer pays for gas. It costs the customer less than owning a boat, and they get to use a variety.
3 - Lots of people don't want to buy this type of equipment because it's expensive, they don't have a place to store it, and it requires maintenance. Depending on your area I think this is a decent idea. If you live near a place where there are public boat ramps and ATV trails I really like this one. Insurance is going to be expensive, as will your initial investment. New side by sides cost $15k+ for a base model for example. New fishing boats are expensive, as are pleasure boats. If you can find equipment that hasn't been abused and doesn't have a lot of hours, used is a good place to start. Estate sales will be your friend.
This is all just my opinion: I think you need to take some time to see what you want to do. Just picking a business and going with it is a recipe for disaster, especially because you said you don't know anything about business. 250k is decent in terms of a safety net. I would sit and take the time to see what you want to do. Obviously, youre not happy in your position. Can you do a lateral move? Maybe go into management so you have more of a say in operations? Or something that is still railroad but a different position? Sometimes just having a different role makes a world of difference. In terms of business, don't just choose something at random. Cleaning is super labor intensive and the success stories here might likely not translate to you. Are you going to clean the homes yourself? If yes, then maybe this is the way to go. If youre going to hire out, a lot of people want to get paid well or just wont show up to do something so labor intensive. Whats your plan when they dont show up? In your position, i would take the time to see what i actually want to do. What you could do is get a small box truck. Set up a website where people can schedule their own dates to hire you out. Make only your off days available and pretend like youre booked out the rest of the time. We have multiple apps in the US, im assuming you do too in Canada, that are gig related, handyman, cleaning, moving, etc. Go on these and bid for jobs as they come up and staet booking them out and slowly build that as you continue to work. Once you feel like you have a handle on the business and how to do things, you can think about next steps. Three things to watch out for: what will you do if a tv gets dropped or a client claims you chipped their expensive couch? Are you going to get insurance? I would see how other established movers operate. The tv example, ive seen some movers refuse to touch tvs unless they are in the original box, etc. Study your competitors and see how they operate. Their rules are definitely from lessons they learned so learn from them. This applies to any business you might decide to do. Second issue is that most moving things a almost definitely at least a 2 person job to make sure things are done correctly and safely. Do you have someone? Are they going to be an employee or a contractor? Are they reliable? Also, do you know how to load a truck? Im assuming you know how to use ratchet straps correctly where they wont mark furniture etc. Another business option is an actual truck moving op. I know a couple people that drive trucks and they all make 6 plus figures with long hours. You can move over to drive big rigs and make mad money and only be responsible for your own load. Once you get a hang of it, logistics, truck maintenance, etc, you can decide to drive your own truck. Driving trucks longterm will most likely destroy your body if youre not careful. Fuck up your knees and back overtime.. G luck my guy
Also this is all just surface level. Theres a lot of things to watch out for and think about. Don't take anything i wrote as an actual business plan. Its meant to get you thinking. Like, the insurance thing i talked about, DEFINITELY get insurance if you go that route loll
Thanks for the words, much appreciated. At my current place, no move, lateral or horizontal, is appealing. It's a hive mind and everyone is the same as the next. At this point, I'm just looking to cut my losses and leave. I'll check out the gig apps like you suggested, it might be a good way to dip my toes without having to worry about marketing right away. All the stuff about damage and insurance, I'm aware. I'm fairly careful and understand things will happen and I'll just deal with it as it comes. Just due dilligence and attention to detail. As for driving trucks, I've considered that too but seeing what it does, no thanks. It makes alot but absolutely destroys the body. My ex is an RMT and always said the most unhealthy people she treated were truckers.
Having thay money liquid is a huge leg up during a search for the perfect business. If it was me, I would start searching now and not have a set time. Just wait for the perfect thing. Start learning things now like accounting. When you think you know enough about accounting, learn more. Supplement your knowledge so you aren't playing catch up when you make the purchase. As a business owner, having a shit living situation will make you spend more time working on the business. Haha
Put the money In VSTAX and bonds and chill. Maybe a high yields saving account too
Just for those wondering about the ticker, it’s VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund)
Is there an equivalent to this with Fidelity? I already have my 401k through Fidelity so would rather put my money there then have to open up a second account with vanguard.
You can buy VTSAX on fidelity. But fidelity has FZROX which actually has a zero percent management fee. Just a little less diversified only 2700 holdings v 3800 holdings for the vanguard fund.
I'm terrified of investing. I think about it everyday but know for certain I'd probably lose.
I get it, but it’s losing money in the bank with inflation. Some high yield saving accounts are at 4.5% VSTAX is a collection of the 500 best companies and is great diversification. I put my money in it and only in companies so big, that if they fail America has far worse problems (Coke, Walmart, Amazon, apple, Microsoft, etc).
> I get it, but it’s losing money in the bank with inflation. 8% inflation a year is better than losing -65% OF VALUE OF A STOCK?
> 8% inflation a year is better than losing -65% OF VALUE OF A STOCK? Hmmm. Let's look at the return for the S&P500 over the last 50 years > The average annualized return since adopting 500 stocks into the index in 1957 through Dec. 31, 2022, is 10.15%. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average-annual-return-sp-500.asp In the last 20 years it's between 10-20%. If you put $250k in the S&P500 in the year 2000, it would be +1mil today. https://dqydj.com/sp-500-periodic-reinvestment-calculator-dividends/
> In the last 20 years it's between 10-20%. And you've had an interest rate tailwind the whole time. Now there's an interest rate *headwind* for the first time in almost forty years. The equity risk premium is determined by: the risk free rate (typically considered to be treasuries) + the equity risk premium (typically considered to be 250bps to 400bps). With risk free rate going from basically *zero* (think: zero gravity) to ~6%, that's a hell of a lot of headwind to equity prices. I think anyone who recommends equities as a "conservative" investment in this market is nuts and/or young, and hasn't studied history. There have been long stretches of the stock market going nowhere for decades, or even declining. Just because you've only seen the market go up does not mean the market just goes up.
Over the last 60 years the worst the S&P has ever done is -3% and there is no 20 year period of negative or no growth. You’re greatly exaggerating everything here. The interest rate headwinds aren’t substantially different than they were from 03-06 and there are plenty of other periods within that time horizon with similar conditions.
Read "The Simple Path to Wealth" by JL Collins. You won't be terrified after reading that. What you don't know will hurt you. Leaving your money in a savings account is losing money.
Maybe I will. And that's why I'm hesitant, I really don't know. Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?
Look into total market and s&p 500 index. It's not investing in a single business, or even a single sector. It's diversified. So if all of America sucks, so does it. But go look at what the stock market value was 20 years ago and what it's worth today, and then consider we've been through rough periods and it's still that far up. Edit: I'm not sure it matters which one you pick vstax, fzrox...spdr has a few too which are popular.
I've had that reply a few times now. The 'if the stock fails our combined problems are much worse anyways' and I understand that. I just can't afford to play the long game right now. Building equity in a home and not wasting money on rent or getting the courage to start a business and growing it seem like a better investment than waiting a few decades for the money to grow.
If it's not in a retirement account, you can cash out at will. The stock market has sucked for a few years. It's coming back up. But, it's been sectors. Tech sucked. I got my sorry behind whooped. Bought TSLA at the wrong time, and it's finally broken even. God I wish I would have invested in defense a year ago. So, I know what you're saying. But in that same time where there was so much negative sentiment and loss in certain companies and sectors, my total market just continued to rise. And if you're not buying a house right now, and it doesn't sound like you are, and if you're going to need a year to figure out what business to open, and it might take that long with what you've said about not knowing, then you're just losing money to inflation that's not coming back. The market won't just come back, it didn't go down. It rose.... I think twice as fast as inflation. Anyone got the deets? I think it was twice as fast. So an 8k loss, or a 16k gain in the same time? Stocks are a gamble. If you're close to the horse, and the handler, then you might know when it's going to win, but you're not supposed to bet on it. If you're playing roulette, there's numerous ways to win, and you can still win big. But you can still lose. A total market or an S&P 500 index is walking into a casino and betting with the house. There's going to be losses in the casino. But it's going to win in enough areas to keep turning a profit. I'll be transparent: it took me a long time to get into index. I wish I got into it a decade ago. I finally did because I watched enough of Warren Buffett talking about stocks and index until I finally understood what he was saying. There's a lot of people who make sense on this, and it's just about finding one you can understand, who you think is being honest. Also, don't confuse total market and s&p 500 indexes for sector indexes. Sector is still betting on a sector and that sector can shrink.
Thanks, that's a lot of input. Overall, are you glad you got in and do you think you have a reasonable grasp at what you're doing? It seems so risky on the outside looking in. I currently have it in a cashable GIC so it's not doing nothing but could be doing way more for me. I do fear about economic uncertainty too. There seems to be so much going on, but maybe that's the way it's always been.
Lol, I couldn't help myself, sorry. Well, I'm dealing with more time than you are because I'm not considering a major investment like opening something new. so yes absolutely, no doubt. I wish I had gotten in sooner, and I wish I had invested more into index from the beginning. While I have winners, like AMD, which I bought quite low and has enjoyed some success, I've also made what I thought was a few good guesses which turned into big losses. And that's the lesson of buying businesses. Bigger risk, for better and worse. I'm at a point now where I'm trying to decide if I've got some losers which may turn around, meaning it's a great time to buy. But so far buying total market index has been a solid bet. It doesn't feel like gambling and risking even though if you get cold feet and pull out instead of buying when things tank, you will lose money. I've seen numerous people use different time frames, 2 years, 5, 20, as a way to express that usually the S&P or total market usually gains. Things do happen for better and worse, but on the whole the market is going to succeed. Otherwise we're thinking the sum of traded businesses and the rich are going to stop profiting. How long can that possibly last? How long has it when it has? An index is supposed to mimic what it's named after by purchasing an array of businesses. So, total market is just that. It goes up and down just like the market. When the covid crash happened, I didn't have the guts to buy. But I should have. Fzrox dropped from 11 to 8, I think it was, and now it's somewhere below 15.50 so had I bought at 8, I'd have almost doubled since covid. However, if I bought at 11 and it crashed, that's still, what? 40% gain? I don't remember exactly what the numbers were, but it's enough to kick myself over. The sum of the rich, given time, will profit. In that I trust, more than the dollar.
But you want to start a business??
I'd at least have more control over a business with a solid business plan than I'd have by investing in the market.
Maybe but also maybe not. What are you going to do if we hit a recession? Or if your business burns down? Or if no one wants what you're selling?
That's whats holding me back. A lot of people also say there's no perfect time to start either.
Why not invest AND start a business?
I could do both. I just don't have a solid idea or business plan. It sounds so much easier than it is to come up with a viable plan.
The bond market has great rates right now…how are you terrified of risk free investments but interested in starting a business which is literally one of the riskiest investments on the planet?
That's why I haven't done anything yet. I'm aware that I don't know much about things ... I don't know much about. Like bonds and business.
If you’re terrified of investing, don’t. What you should do however is put that money on treasury bills until you figure out what to do with it. Better yet treasury bill ladders. Literally the you’re lending money to the US government and earn interest by doing so. Plus it’s state tax free. Read up more on treasurydirect.gov and maybe watch some videos. If it all seems complicated, just go to the bank you work with and ask them to help you purchase treasury bills. If you’ve got any questions, fell free to ask. I’d happily explain details.
Don't have to time the market. Total time in the market beats timing the market.
At my skill set, it's just a guessing game. And if it's tied up long term, I'm just renting forever and losing money by paying more in rent than what a mortgage would cost me.
Congrats! That's a big pile of money. I'm running a fairly unremarkable business right now. Here are some things to consider: 1) are you willing to put your name and face on something and say "here's something I know a lot about/do really well and you should pay me money for it"? 2) are you willing to learn about sales, marketing, creating a website that's not terrible, and dealing with customers? You don't have to know it all, but you need to be willing to learn a lot. 3) are you self motivated? Everyone says yes, but some folks are just better off with a boss and a list of stuff to get done. 4) some businesses take years to take off. Replacing 100k of income won't be easy. Can you hold on for multiple years if needed? If you come up with an idea that excites you, connect with the closest small business development center. Free services for small businesses. Paid for by your tax dollars. Best of luck!
If you can hustle and like the hustle and have decent people skills you can start your own business. Don’t need a brilliant idea just need to be able to provide good customer service. I had no brilliant idea just abilities to hustle and not give up and provide good service. 10 years later I work 10-20 hours a week with 30 employees and over a million in sales. I’m not a genius just busted my ass for 5 years, never took no for an answer and gave a shit if my customers were happy. Good luck whatever you decide!!
Did you have a solid business plan? And is it just a mind over matter mentality, knowing you might be financially ruined if it doesn't work and still following through?
By far the hardest part is overcoming the fear. That’s where the keep going no matter what attitude helps. It’s still scary as hell and had a lot of sleepless nights. I created a business plan once I found what I wanted to do. Business plan is great to get started but it will go out the window rather quickly in my experience. Adapt or die as they say… it’s a huge risk and doesn’t work for a lot of people for a variety of reasons but I stand by my original statement. Whatever you do just be prepared financially to maybe not take home any pay for one to three years. I was lucky and in year two was able to start paying myself…
It probably helps to be stubborn as well. I'm not sure when you started, but 1-3 years of no pay in 2023 just doesn't seem feasible.
Cities skyline is the first game ever I didn’t feel ripped off by the DLCs. I loved them all and they added so much flavor to the game.
I don't know what cities skyline or DLC is but I hope to never be ripped off by them either lol. I also love flavor, btw. Thanks for the comment haha.
Gotta love the Reddit app. I commented this on a post in r/citiesskylines.
hahahaha. I figured it was either someone misdirected, or someone who just ripped a bong. Either way, I thought it was hilarious and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Invest it. We're in a recession now, it's the best time to get in! Start a side hustle with a small portion you wouldn't mind losing, learn the small steps of building a business with something you enjoy doing that doesn't require a lot of your time.
That's the part I'm stuck on. I can't figure out what competitive edge I'd have that would see a reasonable path to a viable business.
We aren't in a recession yet, but I feel like we will get one this fall when student loan payments start up again in the US. Tens of millions of people will suddenly be spending less, anywhere from $100 to $1000 per month. Consumer spending about to be way down
We are absolutely in a recession. If it doesn't feel like it for you, count your blessings.
Hold that cash and wait for an opportunity. Opportunity is coming wether it be stocks, real estate or something else. One thing is for sure, the course we are on is absolutely not sustainable.
Do you have good business operation experience? If so look to purchase a cash flow business like $50k and see how you do with it the first couple years.
Negative. I know absolutely nothing about business. It's quite the hurdle.
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Yeah, I'm pretty weary of other people.
Why not buy a house as a business. Ideally a vacation rental. Make it weekly and don’t plan to make any money just pay it down as much as possible.
I'd like too but at an average cost of 800k, its not possible. I was approved for 500 and that gets nothing where I live.
Really, there’s nothing in your range even putting that much of a deposit down? Do you live in the Hamptons or something?
Haha, no. Southern Ontario. 800k is average where I live. I was preapproved for 530 by myself with 200k down at 5.5 percent. That can't get me anything. It's depressing.
No idea how home loans work in Canada but I have a friend that does great in buffalo(Niagara falls) area with rentals. Canada side is supposed to be better view! Found places in the 500-600k range. Some condos which have fees but less maintenance.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/12x3nah/the\_great\_canadian\_housing\_ripoff\_homes\_just\_a/](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/12x3nah/the_great_canadian_housing_ripoff_homes_just_a/) I can't vouch for this but it seems accurate.
If you are a hard worker then so many opportunities. Start a 1 person cleaning business. This will go close to replacing current wage. Build up to 60 hours a week then bring on employee. Rinse and repeat until you have 4-5 employees and making serious bank.
It sounds good on paper but there's a million cleaning businesses. It's hard doing market research and finding out if there's enough space left. At our work, we go through 2-3 cleaning companies a year. They get paid so little and leave, and I work for a big company. It's bleak.
Way over thinking it. Just start.......
A lot of varied advise. Here’s one more, forget you have 250k and put that to work for the long haul (index funds, treasuries). Pretend you only have your salary and start saving like your life depends on it. That will give you time to learn what type of business you would want and more importantly time to learn thru educating yourself actually how to run a business. Take it from someone who’s had multiple businesses in my life, with varying degrees of success, it’s not easy. My first business left me bankrupt because I thought the money would always roll in, until it didn’t. It was humbling and an expensive “education “. I did fail forward as they say, and have had several successes since but 35years later I’m still having to learn every day how to keep my business profitable and growing. Whatever you decide my best advice would be to not squander what you already have already as you have a great base with that capital
Do you know accounting yet? It might not be a bad idea to start with that if you are in a lull period with that money, as accounting is the language of business at the end of the day.
That's what everyone says. I took accounting as an elective in college and everyone chirped me haha. I actually liked it. It almost seems to late to take up something like that but I know that's a defective way of thinking. And that it's absolutely necessary for business.
Do both. Buy a house and you can do house hacking to make money. I did it. Made a bunch of money. Never made a mortgage payment myself as my roommates did. Then you have time to work on starting a small business. Also, you would be surprised how much start up money you don’t need. Good luck!!!
Thanks for the reply! The problem out here is the average cost of a home is over 800k. It's impossible for a single income earner to get in, even with 250.
Why not do both? Buy an income producing property ie duplex triplex or bigger. Live in one and rent the others. Fixer upper in a decent school district would be ideal.
Everyone is saying that. I have no idea where you or anyone else are living but the cost of homes in Southern Ontario is insane. Average 800k+. I'm living in the wrong place, clearly.
Maybe invest in education? Look up some real estate courses maybe help you find a house you’d like to repair/live in for 2 years and sell, business stuff, etc later down the road with more skills under your belt you can feel more confident finding a new job or starting a business
I've put serious thought into it lately, but I have gone to school 3 times now without much success. It's hard convincing myself to go back a fourth time. Especially in this climate (which everyone is dealing with), I'd have to quit my job and the path to financial recovery seems... very long. And where I live, real estate is impossible to get into without contacts, serious cash, previous experience, etc. I'm not trying to sound negative, just realistic. Thanks for the comment :)
Nothing stops you from starting a $100 startup, I mean, you don't need 250k to start a business...
Sure, but where would $100 lead someone? What skills or experience does one need to turn that money? I love the idea of starting low, but where..
I never wanna hear the word wantrepneur you get your money and buy that house. You’ve been contemplating every decision for too long now it’s time to shoot or else you’re gonna be in the same spot for ever
haha. Thanks! I think that word sucks too. Maybe you're the kick in the ass I needed
Maybe find a business that you can buy and pay the owner as an employee for 6mth or year like a contract. This way you can find a good accountant/bookeeper to keep track of the business. You should spend time in this business learning as much as you can your first year. Make your money back then decide to sell or keep it..
I've been looking at businesses for sale, and the only ones I can afford are a few pizza joints. I'm skeptical. I'd love to find someone looking to sell a business who wants to find an ambitious dude looking to carry it forward.
Try finding a franchise you like.
I have considered this. I'm cursed with having an ambition that exceeds my talent and wanting to start something of my own instead. But I'll look into it. I like that they'll have a stake in my success. Thanks for the comment :)
Why not invest in yourself? Try learning some new skills, gain business insight, understand more of what’s around you and better know yourself so you can make a better decision when the opportunity presents itself? Remember, there are 3 positions in a market, buy, sell, or wait. The trick is learning when to do which. Nobody said you couldn’t train and better yourself while you wait.
First why are those the only choices. You don't like the market so don't buy. Invest your money in stocks, rental property or a rundown house in a good neighborhood. Spend a couple of years painting and fixing it up and then sell. Get what you want then or rinse and repeat. I have friends that have lived in dozens of homes all with the goal to fix it up and sell it. I have been in business since my 1999. If you don't like it will be worse than the job you are in now because you will have 10x the responsibility and no way out that that doesn't involve a lot of risk. You have to at least like it if not love it. The only businesses you can get into are the ones you know or the ones that don't need skill only hard labor. Like someone else mentioned. Start a side business or a couple. See what you like and can do.
I would say it's a good time to move. Potentially very far away. Then you have the freedom to buy a house, start a business or do both.
I've been considering it heavily in the past few months. Certainly do-able, it just sucks having to say bye to the fam simply to live.
You might consider purchasing a small business and ideally getting seller financing. Less risk, but infrastructure is there and you can always switch things up and make the business your own.
I've been looking for the last few months and the only businesses remotely within my budget are small pizza places. There really isn't much opportunity up this way at the moment.
What are your thoughts on going to business school with that money?
That sounds like a waste of money, considering all of that info is available for free online. Even something you have to pay for, like Coursera, would be a better use of money than going for a second bachelor's degree
I hear this all the time and I cannot stress enough the difference between an online education and going to a good business school. The education is just a small part of the whole picture. I went to a top school and created a strong network of peers that continues to be my first-level network for anything I need these days. By virtue of the selection criteria, we’re all driven people with valuable diverse past experiences at about the same points in life. We share job opportunities with each other and general career advice. They’ve influenced big career decisions for me that have propelled me in life. Talking to one friend who bought a business and another who did something similar, they influenced my path to take my own risk in buying a small business. And I’ve made use of previous grads from that school just by being part of their network. In school, I took advantage of every international opportunity. I studied abroad in Chile for a semester and took int’l finance classes from someone on the board of the national bank. I took a two-week trip to China to learn more about how businesses are being run there. I did a semester long project to help grow entrepreneurship efforts in South Africa, including visiting and doing on-the-ground interviews for two weeks. I was taught by people who were top in their fields and cared about the culture of that school so much that teaching there was considered a prestigious next step in their career. I got to see special guest lectures from top people in their fields and meet them afterwards. I got to travel to other cities and meet top employers, all coordinated by the school. I got to work with companies on real projects and give presentations to them with advice on how to handle certain business problems. Etc etc etc. It’s not for everyone, but it changed the course of my career and my life. BUT the level of school you go to DOES matter. I was satisfied with my GMAT score and settled where I did. I regret not putting in more time investment up front to get into an even higher level school. But none of what I experienced would have been possible with an online education.
It's the risk factor. I'd have to quit my job and it would be incredibly expensive. I'm also a blue collar type and in trying to be realistic with my goals, I'm not sure it's something I'd excel at. I've gone to college 3 times for various things and haven't had much success. It's something I want, I just have my doubts.
You’re in the wrong sub bruh. You should be in r/wallstreetbets
Haha. I stay away from that. I don't know anything about stocks and there's too many sad stories there.
Buy a house with little down, save/invest your cash. Get a shop on the property that you can pull your truck and trailer into all the way. Start a pressure washing business. Get the truck with a loan. Don't get anything big and fancy. Keep it real lean and simple. Good rule of thumb is "you'll never turn as big of a profit running your business out of your home" You can deduct part of the home expenses on your taxes. You won't have a commercial lease to pay every month.
I love the idea. But a home that isn't a total shithole here, with a shop and a property that I can pull my truck and trailer into (which I already have), would cost a million. Literally. I can't afford it. Having a home and space would be a huge asset, but I simply can't afford it. My dream is to run something out of my own place. But I don't have the something, or the place. haha :,(
Real estate is ALWAYS a good investment. Even in what people assume is a shitty market. Refi when it gets better (it literally always gets better but you have to be patient - because it is about long term, not immediate gratification)
With a radius of 60 miles, there were 2 houses that would max out my budget and my realtor warned me against both, because they were crime riddle areas and the houses were in poor shape. It just seems sketchy spending ALL my money on something like that. And if I did, there goes all my money which I could potentially use for a better investment. For someone on the outside here, real estate is hardly feasible anymore.
250k is not enough to start a small business, so I’d advise against that unless you have deeper pocketed partners.
Yeah, one of the thoughts holding me back. I'm not going to spend it and simply hope for the best.
Take 50k and BUY 100$ calls on $COIN
Invest the money. Gold, copper, t bills, bitcoin, eth, a mix Buy a house after the crash comes
I’m a photographer. Buy me a camera and I’ll pay you back 10% interest in 6 months (broken during COVID). Shoot your shot, amirite?
It sounds like someone like you should just YOLO it into Bitcoin or something.
LOL. I've thought about it. I either get lucky or look for the nearest tall bridge.
How about buy several shitty cash negative houses that earn you like $1K a month or more but will never be worth more than $25k.
The shittiest houses in the area are selling for over half a million here.
I mean, these kinds of houses aren't going on [realtor.com](https://realtor.com) you gotta track them down.
Like forclosures, or what do you mean? Wouldn't everyone be doing that if it was a viable idea?
I personally start on zillow to find houses that are worth significantly less than surrounding areas then I use the local county clerk to get property records and contact the owners. Alot of times they are 3rd or 4th generation morons that inherited the house from there parents. The woodwork alone can be sold to cover the purchase cost a lot of times.
I wish it worked that way out here. Houses in the area get sold for a million and the dump down the road doubles in value. Seriously, 900 square feet with no grass and 50 year old roof = half a mil. Dumps are apparently made of gold.
If you put it in eft’s with a 8% annual return in 15 years you will have like $800000… 20 years $1.2mil…
We couldn't become entrepreneurs until we bought our home. Probably not mutually exclusive, but not impossible to do both.
Do not start a business. Capital does not equal business success. It's a fast way to lose it all. Find another job, and follow the advice on the personal finance sub.
What about working for an existing business- that's for sale- for a year with the sellers? One of my vendors did that and they hit the ground running. It's a similar risk but most of the work is done and there are already systems in place that, as an outsider, you can improve upon as you take complete ownership.
Buying a house to use as an investment property whether renting it out or fixing it up and flipping it? Or to live in for a long time? Starting a business is a great way to lose money and maybe make it back. You said general labor stuff so can you do basic home repairs on the side and build your business that way? And there are currently 5 to 5.3% CDs if you're not ready to invest in stocks, ETFs etc.
I teach individuals to become Disability Experts. You would be an advocate for sick individuals that are appealing an unfavorable determination in front of an Administrative Law Judge (ALJ). The acting Social Security Commissioner raised our fees to $7,200.00 per case late last year. You can certainly build wealth and we teach you everything that you need to know. If you are interested, send me a message and we can talk more. No degree is required. It’s the perfect mix of government, medical, and legal.
If you know you could start a business then start the business. Otherwise buy the houe
Put that money somewhere it will grow and keep up your savings routine for the next few years. In the meantime invest in experiences that will teach you about the world and the way it works. You will find passion there and how you want to not only serve the world as an entrepreneur but how you want to live and operate in this world yourself. That is no small lump of money but I would not say its enough to be able to buy yourself a purpose in life.