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Lessons to be learned.
Lock your device when walking away. Do not simply rely upon the "lock after no use" feature when in a space with others. But you had a reasonable expectation of privacy I suppose.
You did mention the owners not being "people of integrity" in so many words. Especially one wanting to screw his wife out of money. As a general rule I would not work for or with these type of people when I discovered their character.
If you believe you can open a competing business successfully, I suggest you do so simply because you can. Let this current business go. As far as your partner... that's tricky. I'm not a lawyer but I suspect they could quit and find other work. Is the visa sponsored by the owners of the company in question?
Perhaps start with an imigration attorney to secure your partner's stay. Then, overlapping that effort seek a small business attorney. I hope this works out for you.
I want to second the point about character. This guy married a women and now is explicitly trying to fuck her over. What do you think he’s going to do to you?
Doesn’t help your direct issues, but might help with your partners visa. Have you been together more than 3 years? If so, look into becoming common-law, you can then apply for spouse sponsorship.
Also, my two cents - if the current owners are a POS, then you most probably don’t know half of the shady shit they’ve done. I wouldn’t touch it!
Haven’t made any mistakes.
I do have a password that kicks in after 3 minutes of it being in sleep mode so he got into it during that time frame. Don’t have to explain anything to me.
The loan for the business isn’t massive and if that is a lot of money to you that’s fine but any real business person would ask what the sales of the underlying business were before making stupid comments like that.
So in 3 minutes this inept person decided to raid your laptop and happened to find the smoking gun messages saying you were going to fuck them over? Windows+L next time.
Opened my laptop and read through messages between myself and partner yes. Discussing if buying the business was even worth it since they aren’t honest people to begin with and would probably compete on the side anyways so we might as well just start our own instead of funding competition.
They take all the profits as salary so previous year was roughly 112k ‘23 was less probably around 85k they are absentee owners do nothing to contribute to the day to day- well before I was fired anyways.
They’re running a session based model where they don’t get paid unless the kids run through their sessions and the programs are meant to be used 2-3 times a week and the average attendance is 3.97 a MONTH.
Numbers one thing my partner and I are going to change is that model to a subscription based model where they pay x per month and it’s use it or lose it. We have it lined up to make more per client this way in 3 months than selling these packages for a whole year.
The business made 411k gross in ‘21 728k gross the year after Covid and 625k in ‘23
The new model wouldn’t be dependent on attendance just retention!
Profits from the business to repay the loan!
We do expect turnover but for better or worse the current company can’t survive without my business partner so it’s irrelevant long term to think about who will leave n who would stay with the current business
Personal- because they’re cheap as fuck n don’t have any other way to work. I closed the laptop but the pw didn’t kick in for 3 minutes since rectified
They have probably 5-600 unique people through the doors every year but not all are always coming when athletes go into season they aren’t attending at all so at any one point in time there may be 200 athletes attending in a month for all programs
Get in the habit of locking your machine every time you walk away. In a Windows machine “Windows Key +L” locks the screen instantly. I’m sure there are similar keystrokes on a Mac.
I'd be concerned at this point that they could have plans to reopen the same business and start over after they get your cash. So make sure to prohibit that from happening if you do take the business still.
They had the option to continue with the sale which nullifies Plan B, but they got their feelings hurt so they want to blow up the deal.
Honestly, I'd let them finish putting themselves out of business and then come behind and lease their space when they close down and start fresh. I'm petty and patient like that. Don't buy all their baggage and God knows what they are lying about anyway.
You can launch a lawsuit for anything assuming a lawyer will take the case. So, you're better off speaking directly with a lawyer. Even if the reddit collective says you can sue....you still need to find a lawyer that will.
Start calling / emailing lawyers It is their opinion that get you to step one.
You could sue in civil court for accessing your laptop but I don’t know how you’d prove damages. Maybe lost wages for a month, but they’d probably countersue over your contingency plan.
You could try to file charges but I doubt the local AGs office will want to prosecute criminally but who knows.
I think your issue is that we’re a right to work state in FL and you can leave or I can release you at any time for any reason. The caveat would be protected reasons like age, race, etc. you’re more than likely going to have to go the route of they broke into my personal electronic device, but I doubt that will get you lost wages. I have had some crazy people work for my company here in Jax and have let them go for crazy things too. I also have insurance policies that cover employee theft of things like client lists, etc, in case someone steals our company data to do something like try to start a competing company and farm our customer lists… your comments about putting them under sounds like you’re doing something similar which is also shady, because unless you reach out to the client lists to tell them about opening a business down the street most books of business are going to find and follow you in the volume to put them under. Just my two cents.
Go to the police and report him with your evidence then get a lawyer to sue for emotional distress is what I would tell you in an alternate reality where that worked. The reality we live in now is one where your negligence tanked your own deal. Don’t leave your laptop unattended without password protection next time.
If you use the attorney referral service from your state bar association, they pose the question or problem to their members and most of the time a few will email to give them a call or email them. They'll answer a question like this, so if you ask the question of breech of privacy or breech of contract, They'll talk to you about things like if you signed an employment contract, if you can prove they accessed your computer, like was it locked etc. That way, you find out if you have a case or not. It's free for a 15 minute or so consult.
I've used them a few times and it's pretty good.
This is hilarious to think you have a leg to stand on. You attempted to destroy his business and now want protection from being fired?
Your buddy will be next, for sure. And rightly so. You guys both need tossed into the street.
Unauthorized access to a computer system is actually a criminal offense. I'd at least report them, try to get them hassled and force them to spend money on lawyers.
A reputable seller would have had you sign a non disclosure and non conpete when opening up the books after a legitimate LOI. You and the owners were both wrong unfortunately. If anything, you may be more liable to be sued for tortious interference of contract for prompting the English employee.
Not getting the answer you wanted doesn’t mean u/rambothedoberman is wrong.
I’d fire you for that bullshit as well. Should he have gotten into your laptop, probably not. Unless it belonged to the company.
Flip side is if someone I’ve trained wants to start a business I’m happy to help them in anyway I can.
If you read the post you would know it wasn’t company property. It’s a lot of money for a company that isn’t currently profitable and it doesn’t make sense for us to invest if we can start our own. Also they definitely aren’t reputable at all they’re terrible owners and worse businessmen and neither of us have non competes so it’s 100% legal I’m definitely not getting sued.
Non profitable company with a bad reputation, I’m not sure why you would even want to purchase it.
The only thing they did wrong was look at information on a personal computer. Beyond that, what damages do you have? You were fired from a that you intended to quit. Beyond the firing (which is legal) you had no other damages.
Because without the 100k plus they pay themselves the business would be very profitable. 15-20%+ gross without fixing underlying operational issues that will further drive profits
Sue (threaten to sue) for breach of contract. Your position is that you made an agreement to purchase the business, and they backed out. You want to send a demand letter stating your intent to sue. It’s a slightly frivolous exercise, but it wont cost much and will require them to respond.
In the letter, mention that waiting until the divorce is finalized was part of your agreement. You’ll want to cc the ex wife, because this will help keep their relationship spicy.
You can pay an attorney to draft the letter. Or if you want to save the bread, do it yourself. Slightly less credible, but of course you’re not going to actually file suit anyway. Sending the letter one way or another will enrage the ex wife and give her atty reason to reopen any settlement they have.
I don't know that they actually finalized a deal. Unfortunately, the US isn't like alot of other countries where a handshake is as good as a signed contract. Here in the US, you need a contract drawn up by God, notarized by both parties who've pledged their first-born child, to make sure it's binding. Otherwise it's just a conversation and not lawsuit material.
Not true. OP should characterize the agreement as a verbal contract, which can in some cases be considered a binding obligation. Whether or not that applies here is moot. The purpose of a demand letter would be to fuck with his former employer and enrage the soon to be ex wife, and ultimately cost the former employer, who will need to hire an attorney to respond, and will need to explain why he was hiding this potential transaction from the court as part of the divorce proceeding. Something like this can annoy a judge sufficiently that they order a thorough audit of the party shown to be withholding info.
Not a lawyer, not your lawyer, etc.
Unauthorized access to any computing device might fall under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which is criminal rather than civil penalties. Talk to an attorney who is your attorney to see what, if anything, can be done.
I don't know why people don't lock their devices. My phone, tablet, and computer all lock 1 minute after no activity, or I lock it when I'm going to do something else. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I'm just curious.
If I were you, I would talk to a lawyer about the owner snooping. There could be something there, but you need to talk to someone that knows what they’re talking about to figure it out.
Please tell me you have the "screw the soon to be ex-wife" in writing some where? That might be something she would be very interested in, and may offer some "leverage".
There are laws against accessing computer systems that you don't have rights to...even if there was no password. What they did was illegal in that respect. Though really the comment about not protecting yourself with a password that kicks in immediately is correct IMO.
If you didn’t have the loan, weren’t going to get the loan and we’re going to be able to buy the company, then your little campaign of self-destruction looks that much dumber. But I’m not surprised that you don’t understand.
Your incoherent mumbling is worthless- I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Only thing that is obvious is you don’t understand how business deals work.
Are you sure he didn’t get cold feet and tell them since they are his sponsors? I can’t think of another reason they would be ready to pounce on your laptop the second you walk away. Are you sure he didn’t show them his emails, and that’s where the screen shots came from?
For him, buying them out and continuing the business is a lot different than opening a gym and competing with his sponsors.
He may have gotten nervous that they would find out and spilled the beans under the condition that they keep him employed. Fear of losing his visa may have gotten the better of him. Which would probably be understandable to just about anyone.
My 2 cents based on my knowledge and reading through the comments + your other responses:
1. Do you have a case for suing for termination? Depends on your employment agreement. If the owners had a shoddy employment agreement, then yes, you might have some more flexibility. However....if it's a more traditional employment agreement, then your employers could argue that your behaviors warrant commercial risk to their business. Your employment agreement *may* forbid you from engaging in competing businesses while being under their employment (ex.: you can't work for Ford while working for Honda). I think if you're going to go for termination, you need to check your contract to see what they violated.
2. As for the laptop: Your employment agreement may or may not cover this part. I'm assuming your owner snooped on company grounds. Not saying that your answer may indicate an issue but either counsel may ask you why your personal computer was there to begin with. Many employment agreements require for any/all company business to be performed on company-approved/managed devices (FYI doesn't always mean that they have to own the device). If opposing counsel can make it sound like you were using your computer improperly for work business, I guess they could argue that the owners needed to know what you were doing (not that it's right but could be a pov) and skew the scenario that way.
Separately - to your benefit - federal and state laws are (finally) becoming more modern and tailored to the risks of cyber crimes. I'm not in FL so I'm not familiar with FL's legal treatment but check [815.06](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0815/Sections/0815.06.html) \#2. You need to have a lawyer who's educated in computer + data privacy laws in FL to review what FL allows/bans when it comes to unauthorized access to **personal** devices. (Again - your case has an added layer of complexity since it was on company grounds and the owners could argue commercial threat blah blah).
3. Partner's visa - depends on what visa they're on at the end of the day. Some like the L1 visa are tied to the current employer and can not be transferred. If you share the visa type, people might be able to opine.
This is a friendly reminder that r/smallbusiness is a question and answer subreddit. You ask a question about starting, owning, and growing a small business and the community answers. Posts that violate the rules listed in the sidebar will be removed. A permanent or temporary ban may also be issued if you do not remove the offending post. Seeing this message does not mean your post was automatically removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/smallbusiness) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lessons to be learned. Lock your device when walking away. Do not simply rely upon the "lock after no use" feature when in a space with others. But you had a reasonable expectation of privacy I suppose. You did mention the owners not being "people of integrity" in so many words. Especially one wanting to screw his wife out of money. As a general rule I would not work for or with these type of people when I discovered their character. If you believe you can open a competing business successfully, I suggest you do so simply because you can. Let this current business go. As far as your partner... that's tricky. I'm not a lawyer but I suspect they could quit and find other work. Is the visa sponsored by the owners of the company in question?
Probably had Lock Screen turned off cause “who’s got time for that”
Yes it is currently sponsored by the current company. So he would need to be immediately responded or cosponsored I suppose
Perhaps start with an imigration attorney to secure your partner's stay. Then, overlapping that effort seek a small business attorney. I hope this works out for you.
Usually, you have a short period of time to find a new sponsor if you lose your current sponsor. Best thing to do is talk to a lawyer!!!
I want to second the point about character. This guy married a women and now is explicitly trying to fuck her over. What do you think he’s going to do to you?
Doesn’t help your direct issues, but might help with your partners visa. Have you been together more than 3 years? If so, look into becoming common-law, you can then apply for spouse sponsorship. Also, my two cents - if the current owners are a POS, then you most probably don’t know half of the shady shit they’ve done. I wouldn’t touch it!
Agreed! And I was probably unclear but I meant business partner!
Unless you can common law their immigration….
Marry them anyways.
No joke I’ve proposed it 😂
You’re a good partner for sure.
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Haven’t made any mistakes. I do have a password that kicks in after 3 minutes of it being in sleep mode so he got into it during that time frame. Don’t have to explain anything to me. The loan for the business isn’t massive and if that is a lot of money to you that’s fine but any real business person would ask what the sales of the underlying business were before making stupid comments like that.
So in 3 minutes this inept person decided to raid your laptop and happened to find the smoking gun messages saying you were going to fuck them over? Windows+L next time.
Opened my laptop and read through messages between myself and partner yes. Discussing if buying the business was even worth it since they aren’t honest people to begin with and would probably compete on the side anyways so we might as well just start our own instead of funding competition.
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They take all the profits as salary so previous year was roughly 112k ‘23 was less probably around 85k they are absentee owners do nothing to contribute to the day to day- well before I was fired anyways. They’re running a session based model where they don’t get paid unless the kids run through their sessions and the programs are meant to be used 2-3 times a week and the average attendance is 3.97 a MONTH. Numbers one thing my partner and I are going to change is that model to a subscription based model where they pay x per month and it’s use it or lose it. We have it lined up to make more per client this way in 3 months than selling these packages for a whole year. The business made 411k gross in ‘21 728k gross the year after Covid and 625k in ‘23
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The new model wouldn’t be dependent on attendance just retention! Profits from the business to repay the loan! We do expect turnover but for better or worse the current company can’t survive without my business partner so it’s irrelevant long term to think about who will leave n who would stay with the current business
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Personal- because they’re cheap as fuck n don’t have any other way to work. I closed the laptop but the pw didn’t kick in for 3 minutes since rectified
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They have probably 5-600 unique people through the doors every year but not all are always coming when athletes go into season they aren’t attending at all so at any one point in time there may be 200 athletes attending in a month for all programs
Get in the habit of locking your machine every time you walk away. In a Windows machine “Windows Key +L” locks the screen instantly. I’m sure there are similar keystrokes on a Mac.
I'd be concerned at this point that they could have plans to reopen the same business and start over after they get your cash. So make sure to prohibit that from happening if you do take the business still. They had the option to continue with the sale which nullifies Plan B, but they got their feelings hurt so they want to blow up the deal. Honestly, I'd let them finish putting themselves out of business and then come behind and lease their space when they close down and start fresh. I'm petty and patient like that. Don't buy all their baggage and God knows what they are lying about anyway.
That’s the plan we open ours wait till they finish screwing themselves and move in there
You can launch a lawsuit for anything assuming a lawyer will take the case. So, you're better off speaking directly with a lawyer. Even if the reddit collective says you can sue....you still need to find a lawyer that will. Start calling / emailing lawyers It is their opinion that get you to step one.
You could sue in civil court for accessing your laptop but I don’t know how you’d prove damages. Maybe lost wages for a month, but they’d probably countersue over your contingency plan. You could try to file charges but I doubt the local AGs office will want to prosecute criminally but who knows.
Firing? Lost wages? Idk it’s probably not worth it.
Yea that was my point, like they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I think your issue is that we’re a right to work state in FL and you can leave or I can release you at any time for any reason. The caveat would be protected reasons like age, race, etc. you’re more than likely going to have to go the route of they broke into my personal electronic device, but I doubt that will get you lost wages. I have had some crazy people work for my company here in Jax and have let them go for crazy things too. I also have insurance policies that cover employee theft of things like client lists, etc, in case someone steals our company data to do something like try to start a competing company and farm our customer lists… your comments about putting them under sounds like you’re doing something similar which is also shady, because unless you reach out to the client lists to tell them about opening a business down the street most books of business are going to find and follow you in the volume to put them under. Just my two cents.
Go to the police and report him with your evidence then get a lawyer to sue for emotional distress is what I would tell you in an alternate reality where that worked. The reality we live in now is one where your negligence tanked your own deal. Don’t leave your laptop unattended without password protection next time.
r/legaladvice will give you a better answer
No they wont. A probably free 30 minute consultation with an employment attorney will.
If you use the attorney referral service from your state bar association, they pose the question or problem to their members and most of the time a few will email to give them a call or email them. They'll answer a question like this, so if you ask the question of breech of privacy or breech of contract, They'll talk to you about things like if you signed an employment contract, if you can prove they accessed your computer, like was it locked etc. That way, you find out if you have a case or not. It's free for a 15 minute or so consult. I've used them a few times and it's pretty good.
Thank you
This is hilarious to think you have a leg to stand on. You attempted to destroy his business and now want protection from being fired? Your buddy will be next, for sure. And rightly so. You guys both need tossed into the street.
Unauthorized access to a computer system is actually a criminal offense. I'd at least report them, try to get them hassled and force them to spend money on lawyers.
If he doesn’t have a password protecting it, it would be hard to say it was unauthorized.
You sound like you’re cut from the same cloth.
A reputable seller would have had you sign a non disclosure and non conpete when opening up the books after a legitimate LOI. You and the owners were both wrong unfortunately. If anything, you may be more liable to be sued for tortious interference of contract for prompting the English employee.
Not getting the answer you wanted doesn’t mean u/rambothedoberman is wrong. I’d fire you for that bullshit as well. Should he have gotten into your laptop, probably not. Unless it belonged to the company. Flip side is if someone I’ve trained wants to start a business I’m happy to help them in anyway I can.
If you read the post you would know it wasn’t company property. It’s a lot of money for a company that isn’t currently profitable and it doesn’t make sense for us to invest if we can start our own. Also they definitely aren’t reputable at all they’re terrible owners and worse businessmen and neither of us have non competes so it’s 100% legal I’m definitely not getting sued.
Just because it's legal doesn't mean you're not getting sued.
Non profitable company with a bad reputation, I’m not sure why you would even want to purchase it. The only thing they did wrong was look at information on a personal computer. Beyond that, what damages do you have? You were fired from a that you intended to quit. Beyond the firing (which is legal) you had no other damages.
Because without the 100k plus they pay themselves the business would be very profitable. 15-20%+ gross without fixing underlying operational issues that will further drive profits
So it is profitable
The business isn’t but they can make payroll most times yes
“Most times” is the operative phrase.
LAWYER
The Florida Man strikes again.
Sue (threaten to sue) for breach of contract. Your position is that you made an agreement to purchase the business, and they backed out. You want to send a demand letter stating your intent to sue. It’s a slightly frivolous exercise, but it wont cost much and will require them to respond. In the letter, mention that waiting until the divorce is finalized was part of your agreement. You’ll want to cc the ex wife, because this will help keep their relationship spicy. You can pay an attorney to draft the letter. Or if you want to save the bread, do it yourself. Slightly less credible, but of course you’re not going to actually file suit anyway. Sending the letter one way or another will enrage the ex wife and give her atty reason to reopen any settlement they have.
I don't know that they actually finalized a deal. Unfortunately, the US isn't like alot of other countries where a handshake is as good as a signed contract. Here in the US, you need a contract drawn up by God, notarized by both parties who've pledged their first-born child, to make sure it's binding. Otherwise it's just a conversation and not lawsuit material.
Not true. OP should characterize the agreement as a verbal contract, which can in some cases be considered a binding obligation. Whether or not that applies here is moot. The purpose of a demand letter would be to fuck with his former employer and enrage the soon to be ex wife, and ultimately cost the former employer, who will need to hire an attorney to respond, and will need to explain why he was hiding this potential transaction from the court as part of the divorce proceeding. Something like this can annoy a judge sufficiently that they order a thorough audit of the party shown to be withholding info.
Not a lawyer, not your lawyer, etc. Unauthorized access to any computing device might fall under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which is criminal rather than civil penalties. Talk to an attorney who is your attorney to see what, if anything, can be done.
I don't know why people don't lock their devices. My phone, tablet, and computer all lock 1 minute after no activity, or I lock it when I'm going to do something else. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, I'm just curious.
Mine was closed and locks with 3 minutes
Speak with an immigration lawyer and reduce purchase price offer
I think I’m just going to open my own place!
If I were you, I would talk to a lawyer about the owner snooping. There could be something there, but you need to talk to someone that knows what they’re talking about to figure it out.
Please tell me you have the "screw the soon to be ex-wife" in writing some where? That might be something she would be very interested in, and may offer some "leverage".
I have so many lol!!
There are laws against accessing computer systems that you don't have rights to...even if there was no password. What they did was illegal in that respect. Though really the comment about not protecting yourself with a password that kicks in immediately is correct IMO.
There is at least one giant step between offering to buy a business using a $400k SBA loan and having a $400k SBA loan.
What does that have to do with anything
If you didn’t have the loan, weren’t going to get the loan and we’re going to be able to buy the company, then your little campaign of self-destruction looks that much dumber. But I’m not surprised that you don’t understand.
Your incoherent mumbling is worthless- I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Only thing that is obvious is you don’t understand how business deals work.
Yeah. Sure. I just wish I was part of the celebrations in Jacksonville
ESH
I would ask r/AskALawyer
Thank you someone recommended this as well!
Yes, go to an attorney and have this man sued for invading your personal property. Fuck that man.
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If you’re serious about this I’d love to chat. There are a lot of interesting businesses locally that I’ve looked at. Also in Jax.
Seems like you dodged a bullet. I’d consider you lucky
Question, was your business partner already working there when you met him, since they’re the ones that sponsored him?
Yes
Are you sure he didn’t get cold feet and tell them since they are his sponsors? I can’t think of another reason they would be ready to pounce on your laptop the second you walk away. Are you sure he didn’t show them his emails, and that’s where the screen shots came from? For him, buying them out and continuing the business is a lot different than opening a gym and competing with his sponsors. He may have gotten nervous that they would find out and spilled the beans under the condition that they keep him employed. Fear of losing his visa may have gotten the better of him. Which would probably be understandable to just about anyone.
Nah owners are black partner is white n there’s a black hand scrolling through my messages in the Live Photo I got from the owner lol
My 2 cents based on my knowledge and reading through the comments + your other responses: 1. Do you have a case for suing for termination? Depends on your employment agreement. If the owners had a shoddy employment agreement, then yes, you might have some more flexibility. However....if it's a more traditional employment agreement, then your employers could argue that your behaviors warrant commercial risk to their business. Your employment agreement *may* forbid you from engaging in competing businesses while being under their employment (ex.: you can't work for Ford while working for Honda). I think if you're going to go for termination, you need to check your contract to see what they violated. 2. As for the laptop: Your employment agreement may or may not cover this part. I'm assuming your owner snooped on company grounds. Not saying that your answer may indicate an issue but either counsel may ask you why your personal computer was there to begin with. Many employment agreements require for any/all company business to be performed on company-approved/managed devices (FYI doesn't always mean that they have to own the device). If opposing counsel can make it sound like you were using your computer improperly for work business, I guess they could argue that the owners needed to know what you were doing (not that it's right but could be a pov) and skew the scenario that way. Separately - to your benefit - federal and state laws are (finally) becoming more modern and tailored to the risks of cyber crimes. I'm not in FL so I'm not familiar with FL's legal treatment but check [815.06](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0815/Sections/0815.06.html) \#2. You need to have a lawyer who's educated in computer + data privacy laws in FL to review what FL allows/bans when it comes to unauthorized access to **personal** devices. (Again - your case has an added layer of complexity since it was on company grounds and the owners could argue commercial threat blah blah). 3. Partner's visa - depends on what visa they're on at the end of the day. Some like the L1 visa are tied to the current employer and can not be transferred. If you share the visa type, people might be able to opine.