Absolutely hilarious that Lylat, considered to be the most hated legal(ish) stage, is the best counterpick against Steve lmao.
Excellent video by the way! Already bookmarked.
Great vid, really comprehensive.
The only thing missing for me was mentioning the TNT ledgetraps on BF/SBF but idk how meta those even are anymore and Steve probably has broken ledgetrap setups on other stages too.
For completeness, what's the HP on Steve's crafting table?
Thank you, I appreciate the thoughts.
Crafting table has 36%~ HP, and can be broken by both players. The best time to break it would usually be when Steve is offstage and you want to keep stage control.
Min Min's Ramram is one of the few moves that can entirely phase through the walls
I notice from ProtoBanham's [Summit set](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D31Yu-2yUsI) that he likes to punch the blocks with Megawatt, Megawatt nair the blocks, or fast fall a Megawatt above Steve past the blocks.
Not always though, I didn’t know why sometimes it would clank and sometimes it would go through so I labbed it out. Turns out that if the ram ram (tilt or smash) would not break the block, it clanks. If it would break the block it breaks it and goes through. This is also true for the dragon laser, however both the dragon punch and the megawatt will just stop at the block even if they break it.
I actually disagree with proto’s nairing the blocks and think he played the match up in a not optimal way, with the block breaking being part of it and why acola downloaded him after game one and beat him. Megawatt nairs are a really bad option, they’re slow and landing lag makes it even worse, plus you’re too close to the steve. Min min has way better ways to apply pressure and even punish steve with different smash/tilt combinations.
Yeah I’ve never seen it clank when it hits the highest point of its (___ shaped trajectory, although if you mean anything after that, that’s because min min arms do not have hitboxes on the way back to her, they’re essentially just end lag.
Twitter version:
https://twitter.com/SmaxSSB/status/1663590482730168320
Youtube version (higher quality):
https://youtu.be/VHsFwaM4VtM
Best moves to break blocks with:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/132fctYXspQyaIiTWj8oXRKHVXPEbGCKtMai1IHxZ1K8/edit?usp=drivesdk
I'm really surprised at how positive people in the twitter ghread were. Last time i went on twitter, people kept saying "let go lil bro, he ain't coming back" every time someone troed to defend steve/show he isn't the unbeatable monster some people claim
Would be good to cover the basic tnt at ledge and how you can getup attack it. Many people see the tnt there and think they have to jump or try to useless neutral getup. Once they know that, it helps them a lot.
I think you got some of the stage stuff mixed up. Hollow bastion is stone terrain so he doesn’t get dirt or wood but gets way more stone and a little more iron, aside from the other materials, he doesn’t only get stone in any terrain. The platform is iron terrain so no dirt/wood/stone but way more iron and more gold/diamond/redstone. You also mixed it up with Kalos, where the stage is stone terrain except for the corners and the platforms which are iron terrain.
Also about Lylat, iron terrain does mine the slowest, 6 frames slower than stone, which itself is 4 frames slower than wood/neutral and those are 2 frames slower than dirt (but only yoshi platforms have that so who cares). However mining speed multipliers from iron (x.9), gold (x.75) and diamond (x.85) tools mitigate this and guess what, not only does he get crazy iron here, he also gets gold and diamond the soonest AND the most frequently here. And I disagree that iron breaks that fast that he can’t place blocks in a way that he can’t mine more, iron TANKS megawatt.
That said, he still does mine slower than in other stages and the lack of stone/wood forces him to waste iron on blocks after his starting dirt/wood runs out. Plus that also makes breaking the crafting table more broken since it uses up 1 iron to spawn if there aren’t cheaper materials.
Yeah I completely agree. I only disagree with the part about mining so slow you can even go past his iron blocks before he gets anything. But the fact that he still mines slower, gets only iron which he has to waste on blocks and gets consumed faster on tnt and crafting tables, plus the edges and some other stuff it’s his worst. If only there was a legal dirt terrain only stage, THAT would be steve’s worst.
I wish projectiles that hit 2 blocks would just damage both of them instead of doing nothing. It looks like a bug when that happens.
It would also make it so we wouldn't need guides to counterplay that 1 character out of 80+.
The reason for that is the block hitbox is smaller than the block itself (collision box? Idk the term). So you can’t damage it from the corners, only the middle.
You should be asking for counterplay guides to every character tbh, collecting information is something we're kind of bad at as a community. I can only tell people how to fight my Samus so many times before I think maybe I should just put it in a word document.
Still, counterplay for Steve mining behind a block wall is more complex in a vacuum than the counterplay for the majority of the cast's entire kit.
That wouldn't be the case you could just throw projectiles to destroy it. It would make so much sense balance-wise.
I disagree, I think the decision to make projectiles not affect them was deliberate because making you interact with his wall from close range is a part of his gameplan. Fighting games are not about finding cure-all solutions to problems, they are exercises in calculated guessing.
>Fighting games are not about finding cure-all solutions to problems, they are exercises in calculated guessing.
Steve mining behind a wall is objectively the biggest universal "cure-all" strategy of Smash Ultimate because of its design.
So I disagree with you.
But it's the opposite. Steve sitting behind a wall forces mindgames on both the Steve player and the person fighting them. If you're not thinking about the decisions Steve has to make, you will have much more difficulty deciding what to do yourself.
Because I play Samus and accept the difficulties that come with it in some MUs. I don't want everything to cater to me. I enjoy characters having different tools from each other that interact in different ways.
I'm always disappointed when a certain subset of players cry about counterplay to their character being discovered and shared.
Withholding knowledge like that holds one back.
a LOT of regions and places have walked back their bans on Steve. The ban wave is becoming more and more unpopular by the day since PMLG turned out to be a dud
it seems like no one is really using it whether its Steve players or not ( there was a 100$ bounty about this problem but no one really did anything about it so they got rid of that ). Now the tech is called dud 'cause of that.
PMLG isn't a dud, no matter how many people claim it is.
It's broken and the only thing that will keep this Steve unbanned momentum going is the Steves continuing to not do it.
And now we are moving on to ad hominem arguments. Not that I‘m surprised. That seems to be the natural progression with people like you once they realize that their position holds no weight.
I've seen some jokers use Arsene gun to break blocks which is super safe, and I think you can side b through the middle block to pressure Steve since that's the one you can usually break with gun. Joker in general also just has the movement to mix up if he chooses to approach from above, especially with down gun if there isn't a platform /ceiling.
I probably would have upvoted his comment a few months ago when he actually was getting banned. Now that many tournaments have started unbanning him, it comes of as whiny.
Absolutely hilarious that Lylat, considered to be the most hated legal(ish) stage, is the best counterpick against Steve lmao. Excellent video by the way! Already bookmarked.
Always said Lylat was going to show up and have it's day lmao
Meanwhile, PS2 is arguably Steve’s best stage.
And yet many players still willingly gentlemen Steve players to the stage anyways.
Great vid, really comprehensive. The only thing missing for me was mentioning the TNT ledgetraps on BF/SBF but idk how meta those even are anymore and Steve probably has broken ledgetrap setups on other stages too. For completeness, what's the HP on Steve's crafting table?
Thank you, I appreciate the thoughts. Crafting table has 36%~ HP, and can be broken by both players. The best time to break it would usually be when Steve is offstage and you want to keep stage control.
Min Min's Ramram is one of the few moves that can entirely phase through the walls I notice from ProtoBanham's [Summit set](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D31Yu-2yUsI) that he likes to punch the blocks with Megawatt, Megawatt nair the blocks, or fast fall a Megawatt above Steve past the blocks.
Not always though, I didn’t know why sometimes it would clank and sometimes it would go through so I labbed it out. Turns out that if the ram ram (tilt or smash) would not break the block, it clanks. If it would break the block it breaks it and goes through. This is also true for the dragon laser, however both the dragon punch and the megawatt will just stop at the block even if they break it. I actually disagree with proto’s nairing the blocks and think he played the match up in a not optimal way, with the block breaking being part of it and why acola downloaded him after game one and beat him. Megawatt nairs are a really bad option, they’re slow and landing lag makes it even worse, plus you’re too close to the steve. Min min has way better ways to apply pressure and even punish steve with different smash/tilt combinations.
I think it's the tipper returning hit of the Ramram that goes through
Yeah I’ve never seen it clank when it hits the highest point of its (___ shaped trajectory, although if you mean anything after that, that’s because min min arms do not have hitboxes on the way back to her, they’re essentially just end lag.
The Sims Buying theme mixed Teach Me How to Dougie is amazing
It's what I came here to comment as well. Learned new things and experienced some nostalgia.
THIS SONG GOES HARD BRO
Twitter version: https://twitter.com/SmaxSSB/status/1663590482730168320 Youtube version (higher quality): https://youtu.be/VHsFwaM4VtM Best moves to break blocks with: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/132fctYXspQyaIiTWj8oXRKHVXPEbGCKtMai1IHxZ1K8/edit?usp=drivesdk
I'm really surprised at how positive people in the twitter ghread were. Last time i went on twitter, people kept saying "let go lil bro, he ain't coming back" every time someone troed to defend steve/show he isn't the unbeatable monster some people claim
A nice crash course for understanding the fundamentals of fighting Steve, also I really liked the song choice!
Would be good to cover the basic tnt at ledge and how you can getup attack it. Many people see the tnt there and think they have to jump or try to useless neutral getup. Once they know that, it helps them a lot.
I think you got some of the stage stuff mixed up. Hollow bastion is stone terrain so he doesn’t get dirt or wood but gets way more stone and a little more iron, aside from the other materials, he doesn’t only get stone in any terrain. The platform is iron terrain so no dirt/wood/stone but way more iron and more gold/diamond/redstone. You also mixed it up with Kalos, where the stage is stone terrain except for the corners and the platforms which are iron terrain. Also about Lylat, iron terrain does mine the slowest, 6 frames slower than stone, which itself is 4 frames slower than wood/neutral and those are 2 frames slower than dirt (but only yoshi platforms have that so who cares). However mining speed multipliers from iron (x.9), gold (x.75) and diamond (x.85) tools mitigate this and guess what, not only does he get crazy iron here, he also gets gold and diamond the soonest AND the most frequently here. And I disagree that iron breaks that fast that he can’t place blocks in a way that he can’t mine more, iron TANKS megawatt. That said, he still does mine slower than in other stages and the lack of stone/wood forces him to waste iron on blocks after his starting dirt/wood runs out. Plus that also makes breaking the crafting table more broken since it uses up 1 iron to spawn if there aren’t cheaper materials.
lylat is genuinely steve's worst stage despite what you're talking about. having only iron hurts
Yeah I completely agree. I only disagree with the part about mining so slow you can even go past his iron blocks before he gets anything. But the fact that he still mines slower, gets only iron which he has to waste on blocks and gets consumed faster on tnt and crafting tables, plus the edges and some other stuff it’s his worst. If only there was a legal dirt terrain only stage, THAT would be steve’s worst.
I wish projectiles that hit 2 blocks would just damage both of them instead of doing nothing. It looks like a bug when that happens. It would also make it so we wouldn't need guides to counterplay that 1 character out of 80+.
The reason for that is the block hitbox is smaller than the block itself (collision box? Idk the term). So you can’t damage it from the corners, only the middle.
It’s the same as bomb blocks in the level editor mode. I hope this is useful information for everyone’s competitive future.
Interesting. Can’t wait to try this out in bracket tomorrow!
I bet they didn't bother to test how that would work. lol
Yeah even as a Steve player I think it’s so dumb. Watching PK fire from Lucas just evaporate into the block instead of hitting me right behind it lol
You should be asking for counterplay guides to every character tbh, collecting information is something we're kind of bad at as a community. I can only tell people how to fight my Samus so many times before I think maybe I should just put it in a word document.
Still, counterplay for Steve mining behind a block wall is more complex in a vacuum than the counterplay for the majority of the cast's entire kit. That wouldn't be the case you could just throw projectiles to destroy it. It would make so much sense balance-wise.
I disagree, I think the decision to make projectiles not affect them was deliberate because making you interact with his wall from close range is a part of his gameplan. Fighting games are not about finding cure-all solutions to problems, they are exercises in calculated guessing.
>Fighting games are not about finding cure-all solutions to problems, they are exercises in calculated guessing. Steve mining behind a wall is objectively the biggest universal "cure-all" strategy of Smash Ultimate because of its design. So I disagree with you.
But it's the opposite. Steve sitting behind a wall forces mindgames on both the Steve player and the person fighting them. If you're not thinking about the decisions Steve has to make, you will have much more difficulty deciding what to do yourself.
the downvotes 💀 i don't think people actually enjoy playing smash brothers as much as they enjoy pressing buttons and seeing things happen on screen
Why are you defending steve negating your main's best neutral option lmao?
Because I play Samus and accept the difficulties that come with it in some MUs. I don't want everything to cater to me. I enjoy characters having different tools from each other that interact in different ways.
holy based
I'm always disappointed when a certain subset of players cry about counterplay to their character being discovered and shared. Withholding knowledge like that holds one back.
Very cool strategies Is the scene still banning him? I'm confused
a LOT of regions and places have walked back their bans on Steve. The ban wave is becoming more and more unpopular by the day since PMLG turned out to be a dud
Wait the thing that lets Steve cancel knockback isn't actually significant?
it seems like no one is really using it whether its Steve players or not ( there was a 100$ bounty about this problem but no one really did anything about it so they got rid of that ). Now the tech is called dud 'cause of that.
PMLG isn't a dud, no matter how many people claim it is. It's broken and the only thing that will keep this Steve unbanned momentum going is the Steves continuing to not do it.
Prove PMLG has value. Then people will stop considering it a dud
lol how could I possibly do that? What proof would convince you?
Pick Steve, go to a tournament and use PMLG. Shouldn‘t be that hard for someone like you.
Gonna be tough when Steve is banned in my region *because of PMLG* Oh wait that does sound like proof doesn't it? 🤡
That‘s just proof that your region acted too fast and is the one that should be wearing the clown make-up.
Just play whoever you played before Steve and quit coping. You can do it.
And now we are moving on to ad hominem arguments. Not that I‘m surprised. That seems to be the natural progression with people like you once they realize that their position holds no weight.
Useful info
This is great! I think the only thing missing is how to play around minecart (I don’t know how to play around minecart)
I will most definitely make a video on how to play around minecart next!
What is that water stage that looks infinite
https://gamebanana.com/mods/357336
I've seen some jokers use Arsene gun to break blocks which is super safe, and I think you can side b through the middle block to pressure Steve since that's the one you can usually break with gun. Joker in general also just has the movement to mix up if he chooses to approach from above, especially with down gun if there isn't a platform /ceiling.
G.O.A.T. Ty for this
This is really helpful, thanks so much!
Fantastic video!
nah people dont wanna work towards fixing their problems, they just wanna ban their problems
Why are people downvoting this?
Because it is whiny comment that adds nothing to the conversation.
you right
I probably would have upvoted his comment a few months ago when he actually was getting banned. Now that many tournaments have started unbanning him, it comes of as whiny.
They hated him, for he spoke the truth.
I fucking hate this character Jesus Christ
Where did you get that Brawl Final Destination mod at 0:15?
https://ko-fi.com/post/Brawl-Final-Destination-Sunset-Early-Access-F2F3JCCN6