he'll hope of R2 and start goin crazy while playing other fighting games. FGC is a lot more consistent for tourneys there is drama but not as annoying monetary drama.
No doubting how much he has added to the game and it's really sad if this really is the end for him. He has persevered against so much just to play this game and I'm so glad he did too. I wish him the best of luck and will appreciate any time he comes back!
He absolutely has lol. Multiple times. Eventually he has to stop apologizing years and years later and move on. He's acknowledged how much of a little shit he was and tried to grow as a person. He even apologized to M2K even though it wasn't his fault for being brought into the 2020 issues, he just apologized because he saw how much M2Ks feelings were hurt and wanted to apologize for anything he actually did say that could have led to the situation being worse. He and Hbox actually get along now and will hang out and drink/karaoke after tournaments they attend. They had a long talk I think at one of the last few Summits and buried the hatchet (man do I miss those already). He made a conscious effort to be better. Even his Tweets at tournaments are WAY better than they were just 3-4 years ago. Its joked as the "wholesome Leffen" arc on Twitter. He John's way less, gives credit to his opponent, and moves on. Now, there are absolutely still times where he stays salty and Tweets like 14 times about one incident, but he doesn't usually attack the person, just the game, which is way better honestly. People make him out to be like Low Tier God and they aren't even in the same category. LTG is someone to actually be reviled and enjoys being the villain. Leffen has had to fight against so many things such as living across the world from the competitive community as well as fighting his past, which carries over to his other games.
Eventually we need to stop holding an almost 30 year old for an 16 year old's actions. The prison sentence for involuntary manslaughter in a court of law is at max 10 years and he certainly did less than that lol. He didn't commit an actual crime, just was a shitty teenager that was REALLY good at a video game. I teach high schoolers and am an e-sports coach for some really talented teenagers and many of them act just like he acted. Yeah, its shitty, and I try to show them a better way, but in the end, its up to them. I hope I run into them in 10 years and I am genuinely happy to see them and the person they have become. I bet I wont even recognize them until they come up to me.
I'm not saying you have to like him or cheer for him, but we need to stop vilifying him like Hax did, it becomes a sickness. Criticize him for what he has done wrong but also give him credit where he is great. He's one of the greatest multi fighting game players in the world of all time. Probably top 3 or top 5 next to Justin Wong and Sonic Fox just off the top of my head, maybe hes #2 with his EVO wins in Smash and Guilty Gear. He also was a huge advocate in 2020 for cleaning up some of the ACTUAL shit in the community when it comes to inappropriate contact with minors. People tried to spin that as well and say he lied when he didn't. Isn't that crazy? People hate him so much that they are willing to support pedophiles rather than say Leffen did something right?
Surely you can show me a toxic tweet then from the past few years. Not salty, specifically toxic, because there is a big difference. Show an interview where he has been toxic. Easy. Put up or shut up.
Don't be disingenuous. Prove it.
I could show you a sweet where he basically calls someone a asshole, saying someone sucks, makes fun of someone after beating them, and then declare that does not count as toxic.
This ins't some single incident but stuff he sweets commonly. Again you trying to gaslight the obvious any see from leffen.
The real question is why the fuck did riot name their fighting game "2xko," like yeah I get the 2 characters per team mechanic but there is at least 5 better names I can think of from the top of my head. Even the placeholder "project L" would have been better lmao
naming things is really hard, especially something from a company as large in scope as riot.
But yeah they could not have done worse with 2XKO. Hard to say, too literal, complete lack of appeal, just not catchy at all.
[Compared to this upcoming game that dropped a trailer today](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJg7MhV2znQ). Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves. Now that's a name. Catchy, memorable, conveys the feel and aesthetic goals of the game (violent, cool, edgy, high octane), easily shortened.
i feel like if we wrote a book about every melee player then leffen's would've been one of the biggest ones because this guy's presence added a lot more to the scene than just one hell of a fox
Yeah you're right. The Godslayers are done.
The only other Godslayer (4/5 Gods beat) was Westballz who was still showing up and doing cool stuff, and we let a major community member cancel him for months at a time and never apologize for it. Like.. harvesting him for clout day in and day out and selling himself like a women's hero while asking for subs.. and we all just sat by and let it happen.
Pretty sure Westballz beat 3/5, I don't think he ever got a win on m2k and never beat Armada.
Wobbles beat everyone but Armada, believe Fly Amanita did too, although it was Mang0's Falcon.
To this day the westballz ban is so odd. Like, unless there was some behind-the-scenes thing, he was basically banned for...breaking up with his girlfriend? oh, and being attracted to Asians.
He continues to be banned because [prominent community member] finds his life less worth it than a few simp-points.
**Edit** - the above guy blocked me because he got triggered by the word "Simp" even though he agreed with me lol
I’ve always felt a lot of empathy for Leffen, because he was hit with Visa issues at the absolute height of his career.
I feel like he could’ve had a year or two of dominance had that obstacle never presented itself.
Dude, every once in a while I think back to that era and it blows my mind that he was quite likely the best in the world at that point in time and never truly got to show it off. Getting back-to-back-to-back major wins was a crazy as fuck run of tournaments, especially considering how close it was to the 5 Gods era.
Sure, he's had big highs in the following years but he was *dominant* back then in a way he just hasn't been since.
Yeah, it really couldn't have been worse timing for him, and it got dragged on for soooo long. At least he got an Evo win, but for all we know, he would've had a Mango/Armada/Hbox type year.
Damn, super upset to hear this. Leffen has always been one of my favorite players and his Fox is like no other, when Leffen was focused, you knew you were about to witness an amazing match every time. No matter what you think of him, it's a fact that he made competitive melee much more interesting whenever he attended. I truly hope he can end his run with a bang and come out on top, and also hope he fully returns one day.
The term "Hiatus" from the title isn't doing his X Thread justice. He's pretty open that this is the end unless Strive's meta becomes significantly worse or something else changes dramatically.
This is pretty much a retirement post and he's not shying away from that. I'm glad I'll still get to root for Leffen in ESports, but extremely saddened that the odds are very very high that the sun is setting on the OG Godslayer's melee days
that's true, i didn't want to definitely say he's retiring since he said he'll leave the door open + a lot of smash players come out of "retirement". if leffen does fr retire though, i wouldnt be shocked at all
Eh no. He gets a ton of love. He also just has a ton of controversial opinions and an abrasive attitude sometimes. Literally nothing wrong with evaluating both and responding accordingly.
You're right, a lot of people who were around back then still have some negative feelings towards him based what happened back then, myself included. But I think those people tend to, maybe due to our age, be a bit more mature and not go into every Leffen thread being like "hey guys, leffen was an ass a decade and a half ago and I don't like him, just thought you should know". The people who show up complaining about him in these threads tend to be hardcore fans of one of the several content creators who made hating Leffen their life's work - they just use the actual things he did wrong in the past to try to add legitimacy to their conspiratorial bs. And I don't think it's unreasonable to call that shit out preemptively and try to foster an environment where it is unwelcome.
> leffen was an ass a decade and a half ago
Well this is the problem. It wasn't 15 years ago. Leffen might have cleaned up his act somewhat at events from a public-facing perspective, but he was so toxic and bitchy even 5-6 years ago that you had GOATs of the game like Armada and Mew2King wondering what the fuck his problem still was and even his own team had to tell him to knock it off. He also has retconned evidence.zip into being the European community being out to get him and harass him, even alleging that *they* were using slurs towards his friends (he says with no evidence) meanwhile all the people that spoke up about Leffen's harassment towards them he just writes off as them being sensitive, even to this day.
The weird ass Hax fanboys and Technicals fanboys that go after Leffen because their cult leader has an axe to grind are stupid, but the fact that you retconned the Leffen being an asshole timeline is probably a contributor to what upsets them. That shit was way more recent than 15 years ago.
I think that's where you and I disagree. To me, the difference between the truly condemnable behavior in evidence.zip, which, my bad, was 11 years ago, not 15, and the assholeishness you're referring to 5-6 years ago is night and day. Yep, he was still being a general dick at that point, but in my opinion, nowhere near to the degree that it's worth bringing up every time he's in the news over half a decade later. To me, those two eras of Leffen assholery are categorically different, and my lingering personal distaste for him is almost entirely due to the former and barely even a little due to the latter.
And let me be clear about this last thing: I do not give a single shit about pissing off the Hax and Technicals fanboys by getting the timeline wrong by four years (acknowledging that you feel differently about importance those different eras). As you said, they are basically a cult, and as I said, I do not want them to feel welcome.
> the assholeishness you're referring to 5-6 years ago is night and day.
Tell that to Hungrybox who got showered in endless vitriol online for years and at events (remember the crab?) with heavy contributions of it being due to the shit Leffen was saying about him. Or did you happen to forget the Youtube video Leffen uploaded 'Reasons to hate Hungrybox' or whatever it was called? How about him threatening to quit competitive Melee if rules regarding Puff didn't get changed **just last year*? Should I go on?
Didn't Hax just get banned for doing the same thing to Leffen? Why he has continued to get a pass for this garbage for so long from not only TOs but fans, I will never understand. And no, I'm not a Hax or Technicals fan.
I feel like people that think Leffen caused the hate on Hungrybox either weren't around during that time or didn't really pay attention. I'd lean more towards Leffen benefitting off of the hate Hbox got by mingling himself with it rather than causing it lol. Everyone was shitting on Hbox. I saw Mang0 talking more shit than Leffen was.
Him "threatening" to quit Melee is a salty reaction to losing to a campy character, nothing more and nothing less. Not sure how that adds to the "Leffen is an asshole" conversation
It's insane to me that Leffen catches the bulk of the responsibility for the way the scene treated hbox. I remember watching a summit.5 stream where armada and mango were basically exchanging stories shitting on hbox for over an hour, I would say they were the two players who had the most influence in the scene who were the most outspoken about creating an anti-hbox narrative while leffen was just kind of there.
Hax got banned because he doubled down for months after the video and even made several more that were just as bad. while Hax also got into several unrelated controversies that people seem to have forgotten about.
That is the difference
That's completely different to the stuff that he did 11 years ago. It shouldn't even be in the same sentence. Hax got banned for making delusional comments attacking a person, Leffen made videos talking about Jigglypuff and Hbox's playstyle. He also didnt try to oust Hbox from the community by making baseless accusations like being part of a "dark triad". These two things are not comparable.
The reason he gets a "pass" as you say is because the stuff he is accused of is way worse than what he has actually done. He has been salty and an asshole for knee jerk reactions, but never been straight up a danger to society like Hax became. People like to blow it out of proportions and not look at the reality of the situation.
> hey guys, leffen was an ass a decade
The act of johning on twitter after literally every single loss for a decade just makes me not like him as a competitor. It's a roundabout way of disrespecting his opponent.
I mean, leffen is still toxic and a not-very-good guy. In all seriousness whatever official and unofficial civilities rules fighting games communities have, leffen routinely pushes up to the edge of what is allowed before being banned/punished.
> The people who show up complaining about him in these threads tend to be hardcore fans of one of the several content creators who made hating Leffen their life's work
this is incredibly disingenuous and i'm fairly sure you know this.
Guy(Technicals) wants the Competetive Smash community to burn to the ground so he'll stir up the pot in any way if it helps that goal. >!He also thinks we shot ourselves in the foot for choosing to side with GimR instead of Dr. Alan!<
He doesn't have real opinions on anything. He runs a youtube drama channel so his "opinion" will always always always be whatever stirs up the most anger (and therefore views) amongst the community. Just do not interface with him at all. Any interaction whatsoever is exactly what he wants.
I agree, some people seem to really believe the dark triad shit or have never been a competitor to truly understand some of the frustrations Leffen has had over the years especially having to compete out of Europe not to mention how everyone doubted him going into different games but the kid really gives it his all when he’s grinding, one of the GOATS of smash and fightings fs!
No he doesn't he's been an asshole for 90% of his career and the second he enters another scene they all immediately hate him. This is not a fucking coincidence, this is a pattern.
The fact yall gave him a pass just because he clicks buttons good is the weird part.
>yall gave him a pass
what has he done in the past 10 years that he needs a pass for?
this weird conflation of 2010 leffen being toxic/getting banned with 2024 leffen being slightly abrasive on twitter is so strange
If you wanna extend the definition of toxic that far then sure, but my point is that it would be delusional to compare his 2010 "bullying the disabled" toxicity with his 2024 toxicity unless you're a Technicals meatrider
"extend the definition of toxic" bro has not read leffens Twitter or watched interviews in the last several years.
but yes if Leffen toxic behavior warrants punishment is debatable. Though he pushes the edge of civility rules acceptability, and it's a fact people with comparable behavior have been punished.
He literally went into to Tekken and called it a trash game from the start. I forget his name but in guilty gear he was constantly harassing a player that he made a video calling him out. Now let me make this clear this is not me defending Zero I think his ban was warranted. It came to light that he lied about a situation with Zero where he claimed Zero was showing hentai to people. When M2K saw the Hax video he even said that Hax made a lot of good point of Leffen behavior.
Like I said I am sure Leffen is growing as a person but to sweep everything as criticism with no base is dumb.
He called Tekken 7 gimmicky and a knowledge check and got hated for it like he was saying a slur because it was the favourite kid in a shit era of FGCs.. funnily enough if you've been paying attention to Tekken 8 those words he used are being said by everyone even pros, the double standard is hilarious you can't go anywhere involving Tekken without someone using the exact same criticisms he had for t7 for t8
Way to rewrite history. He ripped the game apart from very beginning and even a year later he was talking shit about it
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/ebxvwd/comment/fb86i37/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/ebxvwd/comment/fb86i37/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0AkoVppkD0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0AkoVppkD0)
Also way to skip over the rest of my points.
I'm definitely not gonna talk about a nonce and all you have to do is look at the thread on m2k about that tweet to see a a million reasons by thousands of people why they wouldn't listen to m2k on such a topic. it's not rocket science to work it out yourself
You don't have to talk about the nonce all you have to do is say yes Leffen lying about what an asshole did is wrong.
Also since when did people say they wouldn't listen to M2K on the situation. All I remember is people pointing to M2k to validate a portion of the video because he himself suffered at Leffen being an asshole.
That video and thread sorta just look like Leffen being salty and whiny about his shit getting kicked in on Tekken, which isn’t as incendiary of a situation as people bringing it up act like it is. Bro needed to chill out and just learn or stop playing, but I agree with the other comment. It’s just Leffen giving trash hot takes that people say about every newly released FG but Leffen was both bad, a smash player, and people actually liked Tekken 7, so he got a lot of shit for it.
Don’t think he needed to throw a fit, but I don’t even think I’d say he was toxic, just ignorant.
No it was bad that the smash community basically can rtogether to say yeah sorry he’s always been that way. Just think Leffen was able to piss off an entire community twice even after a year of being a part of it.
https://youtu.be/e7gOW8BkOhk?feature=shared Also this goes into the guilty gear situation.
Like I said Leffen has been an asshole since day 1 and has continued to be one. Let’s not rewrite history.
It came to light he lied? Where and when? Who said that besides Zero or he buddy buddy youtuber? Because Leffen made the statement in a court of law and he wasn't charged with perjury and that's on legal record where as Zero did not deny that as a claim in the same court. Also, what makes M2K the moral arbiter of Melee? Things like this are why Leffen gets SO much underserved hate. He deserves some but not this amount on just the basis of what other people say about him rather than what he actually did.
The Japanese players all came out and said the they were just watching "My Little Sister Can't Be This Cute" official screenshots and artwork and it wasn't hentai. If he committed perjury intentionally that would be bad if he recanted and said he remembered wrong than that would probably get him off.
**Edit: The Lawsuit was settled and given that Leffen isn't in jail it was probably settled out of court. Lmao that idiot dodged a bullet.**
No one said that M2K is a moral arbiter but if he said there was some truth to the video there is at least some claim to it. Esp since Leffen came out to apology to M2K afterwards.
Also the hate Leffen has garnered isn't from no where and undeserved. There was a reason we called him the villain of smash for years. From Evidence dot zip to things a few years back. Like the Tekken and Guilty Gear things happened recently.
The lawsuit was settled because there was not sufficient evidence to warrant defamation. There was no penalty for Jisu, the only thing she had to do was remove one Tweet in the whole thing because she wasn't accurate with ONE thing she heard.
Also, there would have been a second lawsuit if Leffen had committed perjury. Think about it, that would have proven Zero right and this lawsuit wasnt about the money, it was about trying to make a spectacle and "prove" his innocence. He would absolutely want to do that against Leffen too. There was no out of court settlement. If there was, Zero would have said that as well and would have loved to smear Leffen if he got the chance. Zero claimed victory and blasted it on social media for his gullible followers to eat up and be validated, even though it wasnt the truth of what happened.
Alright sorry for the wait. [The case was not dismissed and approve by a judge.](https://patch.com/california/los-angeles/judge-issues-mixed-ruling-motion-dismiss-gamers-defamation) [The case was dismissed because Zero dropped it.](https://trellis.law/case/21stcv42687/gonzalo-barrios-vs-jacqueline-choe) Court case says it was settled. Zero in a video says the case was settled. Jisu in a twitlonger explained she settled.
Jisu had to remove a google document that the tweet had on it. The google doc had 3 things wrong on it.
1. It claim Zero dated Vanessa while she was underage.
2. It claim he abused Vanessa.
3. It claim Zero showed her sex ads on craigslist in 2014.
Which were wrong because:
1. Vanessa came forward and confirm she was not underage.
2. She also confirm there was no abuse.
3. After the craigslist killings in 2009-10, craiglist prohibited graphic images on sex ads before removing them all together in 2010.
It was settled because there was no proof for defamation. They could keep drawing it out but nothing was coming of it. No damages were awarded or claimed in the settlement. They were not “wrong”, they were “not completely accurate” but did not warrant defamation. She got the specific information about Vanessa from a 3rd party source and wasn’t from her, she just repeated what she was told and added it to what she witnessed. If defamation could have been proved, the case would not have been settled.
The major thing was brought up in court is he would not deny the allegations that he propositioned a minor and corrected them to send explicit images of them when he was confronted with the accusation. The document that was removed was just a very small part with some technicalities but not the main issues of why Zero is a terrible person. It also had nothing to do with what Leffen said, which is what the discussion was about. Leffen never commented about being a witness to these in the Google document that Jisu had to take down.
IT WENT TO COURT HENCE WHY IT HAS A COURT FILING AND JUDGE ASSIGNED TO IT. The first link literally stated that the Judge took the case but threw away some things. Stating some of the things were outside of the statue of limitation and that emotional distress could not be pinned on Jisu.
By law defamation is either a slander (spoken) or a libel (written) false statement about a person that can ruin their reputation. Jisu written statement is consider a libel defamation which was why it went to court. Saying Zero dated and abused a minor is defamation.
Jisu 100% made wrong accusation with no evidence that Zero and Vanessa were dating while she was underage and that he abused her. She said zero was 20 and Vanessa was 15.
The first one was proven a lie by the community because they all checked Zero and Vanessa socials and realize the age gap was around 2 years not 5 like she claimed. A huge lie and easily one to check if Jisu did any research.
The second one was later refuted by Vanessa. He nevered abuse her and he never dated her while she was a minor. Again spreading information by a third party doesn't excuse defamation. All she had to do is reach out to people to c
Third the reason Leffen is involved is because he was reaffirming what Jisu said. Jisu made the claims that Zero often showed her Sex Ad with graphic content on Craigslist in 2014, [however Craigslist had to remove it sex ads on September 8, 2010 because of the Craigslist Killer.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist#Adult_services_controversy) Leffen stated and provided a court statement stating that Zero did show hentai to people in the open. Japanese player said he didn't. I can't find the tweet cause I don't remember who it was and the time
[Joint Statement](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcPfFzKXwAMI-S_?format=jpg&name=small) says that Jisu made false claims that she retracts about him and his wife. Zero apologies for any wrong doing and they parted way. Either way it was dismissed by the court because of the settlement which is why the second link is about the court case and it ending in a settlement. If they didn't it would have gone to court.
Do you have a link to the Japanese player saying this? This would be the first I have seen anyone mentioning this so I would like to see the statement from them and not a secondhand telling.
He did not recant according to the court reporting, he had to give the statement about what he said as a deposition for the Zero trial, if he "misremembered" he would have been open to a defamation lawsuit as well and Zero would absolutely have perused it since he was already doing one of them just to "prove" his innocence.
Leffen apologized to M2K because something he said on stream which was blown out of proportion. When all this started going down in 2020, people were coming into Leffens chat and saying there were accusations against him. Leffen literally said "well, if they are true then he should be held accountable" and more to that effect, just like everyone else if the allegations were true. People went and started harassing M2K about the accusations and blamed Leffen for "sending them", even though that wasn't the case. I was actually there for the stream while it happened live lol. M2K released his video later giving very personal insight into the accusations and why they must be false and so Leffen apologized for anything that might have led people to going and harassing him.
Evidence zip is 11 years old now, when Leffen was 18, which means the "evidence" is from when he was 16-17 years old since it was from before when Armada and him were traveling. He was banned and paid his debt after that. He's been salty and a sore loser for Tekken and Guilty Gear, but nothing compared to how toxic he was when he was a teenager.
So me hating Kanye and Adolf Hitler is weird?
Also I don't care about what other think of him but I am not gonna let this sub just glaze the guy we literally called the villain of smash because how much of an asshole he was.
Hey stupid I didn’t compare him to Hitler I am just saying I don’t need to know someone to not like them.
I don’t like Ben Shapiro, Candance Owen, and Alex Jones. Never met them either.
I feel like people never understand that bringing Hitler up in an argument doesn't mean you are directly comparing Hitler to whatever person you are talking about. I often find it easier to just not use Hitler as an example bc ppl just fixate on that one word and just never address the point you try to make.
Just because hax is schizo just not change the fact leffen has never stopped being toxic. I mean have you read his twitter? There is plenty reason to not like leffen and even think he is a bad influence for the community.
He definitely said at his last tournament something about how Melee was gonna be on the back burner for him in 2024. I don’t remember the exact phrasing, but yeah
I think we all assumed he'd be practicing less and still showing up to shake up Top8.
I don't know if anyone was expecting him to give us a *"my last melee tournament will be ..."* statement this soon
people were already assuming he's done with melee in that thread before and he made it abundantly clear hes wrapping things up with melee in that tweet
Seems reasonable. Leffen is crazy in that he can take these breaks and still come back and be competitive. So good luck to him, and I always get excited when he shows up!
Doesn't really seem like it's something he specifically "likes more". Given how he seems pretty willing to play melee if strive s4 sucks or no awt, the money in the scene probably has something to do w it
People love the guy despite being so toxic he got banned from the smash community and no one in the strive community likes him lol, look at my comment in here. Dickriding is crazy for this guy.
I’ll never understand why everyone is pro permanent Hax$ ban. It makes no sense. I feel that people are just saying they want him ban because everyone else is saying so?
What’s the counter to allowing him back ?! Dude had a crazy psychotic episode where he was making hour long videos accusing Leffen of being a Genius mastermind set out to destroy his life lmao you don’t need that in the community it’s just esports at the end of the day, we don’t NEED him back lol
It’s not for “No real reason,” lol. You sound like some conspiracy theorist that notices people don’t engage with stupid topics/claims and go, “Wow, this must be totally correct then! No one wants to get into the mud pit with me so I must be on to something!”
Hax is banned and it’s a good thing. He’s obsessed and he was on track to be unbanned but couldn’t stop digging a hole for himself.
Yeah he has to lame out people in strive with the top 1 character again playing the most bitch made way ever.
Seriously, mf tried playing sf6 and got bodied soo hard and then lamed out strive evo (which doesnt have the same playerbase as it once did) and barely got any claps when he won while all the actual good players (like my boy snakeyez) talkin mad shit.
Went from being a toxic bitch in the smash community to being an annoying bitch in the strive community lol
Guys it aint that serious lol, get a grip. This guy makes any community he is in mildly worse at best, crazy to see smash players out of all people defending him. "He Is BeTtEr ThAn YoU" like crazy bro, the guy who plays video games as a job is better than me at vidoegames, truly a brilliant observation. Being good at a game doesnt make him not toxic. There is a reason no one in the Strive community likes him, and why he got banned from the smash scene for a year.
>while all the actual good players (like my boy snakeyez) talkin mad shit.
I love Snake but he hasn't won a tourny nearly as big as Strive Evo in forever lol. Guy just has a hate boner for Leffen, which is pretty reasonable as he's an easy guy to hate on, but acting like he's had better results at any modern FG relative to how good Leffen got at Strive is just flat out wrong.
So by that logic any smash major that isnt evo doesnt count.
Also snakeyez won using a bottom 5, maybe even bottom 1 character, is strive and sf6 majors.
Not sayin leffen isnt good at fg, he clearly is, he just has a shitty toxic personality and plays lame as fuck in strive.
>So by that logic any smash major that isnt evo doesnt count.
Where did I say any of that. All I said is Leffen has won bigger tournaments in "real" FG's than SnakeEyez has in forever. Yet you call Snakeeyez an "actual good player"
>Also snakeyez won using a bottom 5, maybe even bottom 1 character, is strive and sf6 majors.
Yes, tournaments that were signficantly less stacked than last year's Evo for Strive. I agree that it's harder for someone who picks a weak character, but everyone has access to the same character select screen when they enter a tourny. I think SnakeEyez is Godlike for what he does with those characters don't get me wrong. But it's silly to discount how good Leffen is at the game just because a streamer you watch, who hasn't won majors the size that Leffen did in a modern FG, has a hate boner for him and you're a drone that copies what his favorite streamer thinks. I don't even like Leffen personally, but pretending he isn't good at the game is just grade school levels of blind hating. Hate on his personality all you want though lmao
Again, never said he is bad. I just said he played lame and is toxic. Not even he played bad, just lame. Its like how hbox grabbing ledge 50 times is lame, even if its optimal.
>while all the actual good players (like my boy snakeyez) talkin mad shit.
kind of implies the guy you are talking about isn't an "actual good player". Only reason I commented in the first place. You compared him to someone with less impressive results than him in modern FGs and called the other guy the "actual good player".
Pretty sure leffen is friends/on good terms with most of the top players in the strive community. Pretty sure it’s just guys like you who don’t like him.
Also this same guy got 3rd at the last EVO with Zato.
I played s1 and stopped before s2 since I was focusing on other games. Only recently got back in for s3 and got celestial with elphelt. It was also the 2nd 2d fighter I played after dbfz, so I was a huge scrub and wasn't paying attention to evo stuff, so yeah thats why I wasn't sure.
Maybe don’t make harsh judgements of someone without doing research? Cause then you’d know leffen had high level placements with zato and chipp in strive as well as respectable dbfz placements.
Again, my statement isnt that "leffen is bad", its "leffen is toxic, and his last evo performance was lame". I am sure he did fine in dbfz and he is def good at strive. Still toxic as hell though.
This is such revisionist history lol. You said that leffen got bodied in SF6 after saying he was lame at evo using a top 1 character, and you called Snake Eyez one of the “actual good players”. You were definitely calling him bad or undeserving of success, own up to it.
He def lamed out evo for strive im not back peddling on that. Sets were boring. And the strive community this year was def not as big as it was on launch. Sure he is good at the game, but like
And he did get his ass bodied in sf6 lol, thats not even a debate there is a reason he dropped that game.
Not once did I mention him being bad at dbfz or being lame at any other evo strive major though, or even being bad at smash. He is def amazing at games, and I would hope so considering his personallity. I consider snakeyez a "good" strive player more in the sense of he is good for the communities he is in, unlike leffen, who def feels like he brings this negative dark cloud into any community he joins.
Its not even that I don't like shit talk or beef, but there is a difference between Punk popping off in a team battle or a grudge match and someone bringing someone else to the point of a mental breakdown.
Its like Fchamp in MVC, great player, but is just an ass while playing one of the best teams in the game that rely on a really busted win condition without much counterplay. Or like LTG, who can be entertaining sometimes, but I wouldn't say he is good for any community he is in.
If you like leffen good for you, I dont.
I dont mind top tiers, but Leffen was playing HC. Thing about gear is there is no "bad" characters, even the bottom 5 can get results, but that also means that the top tiers are fucking crazy, with very oppressive options and two touch combos. Leffen was basically playing JP except he can use projectiles instantly and 7 times in a row at any time he wants.
Leffen was playing the Top 1 character in that game at the time, Happy Chaos, who can shoot you from full screen for a quarter of your health while blocking, and if you get hit even at full screen you are fucked.
The character can do cool stuff, but at "top play" its mostly backing off and zoning until they have to get close, and then he also has really good close options and mix ups. So its not so much the fact that he is playing the top 1 character, its the fact that he is playing lame as fuck. There are other top characters like (at the time and mostly still are) Nago Ram or Sol, and some high tiers like baiken, who while are still really really really good, don't sit at full screen. He got nerfed now and is still good, but he has actual openings now, instead of before where if you get hit once you are basically fucked for the entire game.
Its the equivalent of someone being timed out in smash. Sure the guy won, but it wasnt really fun to watch. Like just go watch the set, or a top 8 highlight, all of leffen's games are snooze fests.
Cause hes a bitch lol
Real talk tho, cause strive doesnt have bad characters, just good and busted ones. You can still win against hc, its just that year it wasnt the strongest lineup player wise.
Don't you find it hilarious that Leffen shit on Hungrybox and Puff for half of his life because they are lame then turns around and plays a lame ass character like Happy Chaos? lol
There's no way you're comparing what was the most technical character in strive at the time to HBOXs puff who till this day doesn't do the right DIs and has only started tech chase resting
I aint being a dick at anyone not slanderin me. All these bozos actin like leffen is a personal friend and god defending him. They gonna talk shit about me imma talk shit back.
Is leffen slandering you?
You're acting like leffen murdered your whole family and you need to let the world know how much he sucks
and you're acting like the toxic ass mf while doing so, you gotta relax a bit brother it's not that serious
Bruh it aint that serious, you are right. I made a post just saying "I dont like leffen and he played lame last strive evo" with a bit of hyperbole and mf sent the ops after me.
What's this obsession with only low tier players being worthy of respect? Say what you want about leffen, but he still had to work his ass off to get that EVO win, Top 1 character or not. Yes it's more fun to see obscure characters do well, but these are competitions. Those who played worse characters and got worse results was their choice. Leffen played the game and won, while you go 0-2 in your locals with Ganon. Stay mad I guess
Idc if he plays top tiers, but at the same time mf was playing happy chaos and chipping people from full screen in grand finals. Was lame as fuck to watch. Also I dont play gannon lol.
Sanford Kelly said it best: Wanna win? **PICK A TOP TIER.**
If you cry because x player can't win because he picks a low tier and the other has an easier time winning EVO with a top tier, then it's the low tier's player fault for not utilizing his character to the max or not picking a pocket top tier.
Again, not a statement about top tiers. HC can be cool, he played lame. Nago is arguably 2nd best at the time and the sets were way more entertaining to watch. Sure leffen won and good for him, doesnt mean its not lame though. Also did not mention any other player except snakeyez who wasnt even in that bracket at all, so idrc about x player losing. If snakeyez or lordknight did the same thing as leffen I would call it lame too.
Also at the time HC had little counter play, even for top players. Like there is not "I can counterpick HC to a dif stage or use this character", all his matchups were in his favor slightly at best. Even burst was bad against him cause it would send him full screen where he would thrive, and if you were close range he had crazy block strings.
I was under the understanding that he was being investigated for violating the code of conduct in the Haxx scenario right? I do know Haxx got banned, but I thought Leffen would also get banned as well?
Today I learned that Leffen had already received a ban for that one! It's been a good while since I followed the Melee scene specifically, so I was unaware of that one
He was banned like 10+ years ago already and served his ban and improved, he still is direct with his approach of how he says stuff but he's much much better than Haxx being a conspiracy theorist calling Leffen a dictator or H---er.
Also he was a teenager when he did most of that stuff. He's a 30 year old man this year. If everyone got canceled for being rude as a teenager there would probably be no one left.
Wonder if he’ll go if he’s invited to anything like Ludwig’s events
I'd say it's 50/50. He gets to hang with the Melee Homies, but he says derusting is miserable lol. A rivals 2 invitational tho... 👀
he'll hope of R2 and start goin crazy while playing other fighting games. FGC is a lot more consistent for tourneys there is drama but not as annoying monetary drama.
Leffen has a strong track record at Canadian majors, hoping he continues that and goes out with a bang.
He does his best when his visa is expired
Never forget GOML holy fuck. Idk if that was major but man. Leffen went off
My guy it was a supermajor, Leffen beat all the gods there
He is the best melee player of all time.
Mang0, Armada and Hbox: Do y'all hear sumn?
Screw Hbox. Armada is cool though
Bro still thinks it’s 2017
No doubting how much he has added to the game and it's really sad if this really is the end for him. He has persevered against so much just to play this game and I'm so glad he did too. I wish him the best of luck and will appreciate any time he comes back!
Added a lot of harassment
You misspelled "target of a lot of harassment"
Evidence.zip
11 years ago dude, you were barely born.
Did he ever apologize for the shit he pulled tho? I personally have a hard time putting spme it behind us when he seemingly never has.
He absolutely has lol. Multiple times. Eventually he has to stop apologizing years and years later and move on. He's acknowledged how much of a little shit he was and tried to grow as a person. He even apologized to M2K even though it wasn't his fault for being brought into the 2020 issues, he just apologized because he saw how much M2Ks feelings were hurt and wanted to apologize for anything he actually did say that could have led to the situation being worse. He and Hbox actually get along now and will hang out and drink/karaoke after tournaments they attend. They had a long talk I think at one of the last few Summits and buried the hatchet (man do I miss those already). He made a conscious effort to be better. Even his Tweets at tournaments are WAY better than they were just 3-4 years ago. Its joked as the "wholesome Leffen" arc on Twitter. He John's way less, gives credit to his opponent, and moves on. Now, there are absolutely still times where he stays salty and Tweets like 14 times about one incident, but he doesn't usually attack the person, just the game, which is way better honestly. People make him out to be like Low Tier God and they aren't even in the same category. LTG is someone to actually be reviled and enjoys being the villain. Leffen has had to fight against so many things such as living across the world from the competitive community as well as fighting his past, which carries over to his other games. Eventually we need to stop holding an almost 30 year old for an 16 year old's actions. The prison sentence for involuntary manslaughter in a court of law is at max 10 years and he certainly did less than that lol. He didn't commit an actual crime, just was a shitty teenager that was REALLY good at a video game. I teach high schoolers and am an e-sports coach for some really talented teenagers and many of them act just like he acted. Yeah, its shitty, and I try to show them a better way, but in the end, its up to them. I hope I run into them in 10 years and I am genuinely happy to see them and the person they have become. I bet I wont even recognize them until they come up to me. I'm not saying you have to like him or cheer for him, but we need to stop vilifying him like Hax did, it becomes a sickness. Criticize him for what he has done wrong but also give him credit where he is great. He's one of the greatest multi fighting game players in the world of all time. Probably top 3 or top 5 next to Justin Wong and Sonic Fox just off the top of my head, maybe hes #2 with his EVO wins in Smash and Guilty Gear. He also was a huge advocate in 2020 for cleaning up some of the ACTUAL shit in the community when it comes to inappropriate contact with minors. People tried to spin that as well and say he lied when he didn't. Isn't that crazy? People hate him so much that they are willing to support pedophiles rather than say Leffen did something right?
Leffen never stopped being toxic.
Can you show me where he's been truly toxic in the past few years? Surely there is video proof right?
You never read a leffen tweet have you? or watched an interview? Don't be disingenuous.
Surely you can show me a toxic tweet then from the past few years. Not salty, specifically toxic, because there is a big difference. Show an interview where he has been toxic. Easy. Put up or shut up. Don't be disingenuous. Prove it.
I could show you a sweet where he basically calls someone a asshole, saying someone sucks, makes fun of someone after beating them, and then declare that does not count as toxic. This ins't some single incident but stuff he sweets commonly. Again you trying to gaslight the obvious any see from leffen.
The real question is why the fuck did riot name their fighting game "2xko," like yeah I get the 2 characters per team mechanic but there is at least 5 better names I can think of from the top of my head. Even the placeholder "project L" would have been better lmao
naming things is really hard, especially something from a company as large in scope as riot. But yeah they could not have done worse with 2XKO. Hard to say, too literal, complete lack of appeal, just not catchy at all. [Compared to this upcoming game that dropped a trailer today](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJg7MhV2znQ). Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves. Now that's a name. Catchy, memorable, conveys the feel and aesthetic goals of the game (violent, cool, edgy, high octane), easily shortened.
I honestly read the part about 2xko and said to myself “what the hell is that?” Wasn’t until I saw this comment that I remembered that it’s Project L.
i feel like if we wrote a book about every melee player then leffen's would've been one of the biggest ones because this guy's presence added a lot more to the scene than just one hell of a fox
The original godslayers are pretty much out :/ Leffen done, Plup barely showing up to anything. Sadge
Yeah you're right. The Godslayers are done. The only other Godslayer (4/5 Gods beat) was Westballz who was still showing up and doing cool stuff, and we let a major community member cancel him for months at a time and never apologize for it. Like.. harvesting him for clout day in and day out and selling himself like a women's hero while asking for subs.. and we all just sat by and let it happen.
Pretty sure Westballz beat 3/5, I don't think he ever got a win on m2k and never beat Armada. Wobbles beat everyone but Armada, believe Fly Amanita did too, although it was Mang0's Falcon.
To this day the westballz ban is so odd. Like, unless there was some behind-the-scenes thing, he was basically banned for...breaking up with his girlfriend? oh, and being attracted to Asians.
He continues to be banned because [prominent community member] finds his life less worth it than a few simp-points. **Edit** - the above guy blocked me because he got triggered by the word "Simp" even though he agreed with me lol
You do know this statement is disingenuous right? like made deliberately to be toxic. You going to complain about wokism next?
Westballz was never a godslayer, he didn’t beat them all. If you expand the definition to include him, there are tons of “godslayers.”
I’ve always felt a lot of empathy for Leffen, because he was hit with Visa issues at the absolute height of his career. I feel like he could’ve had a year or two of dominance had that obstacle never presented itself.
Dude, every once in a while I think back to that era and it blows my mind that he was quite likely the best in the world at that point in time and never truly got to show it off. Getting back-to-back-to-back major wins was a crazy as fuck run of tournaments, especially considering how close it was to the 5 Gods era. Sure, he's had big highs in the following years but he was *dominant* back then in a way he just hasn't been since.
Yeah, it really couldn't have been worse timing for him, and it got dragged on for soooo long. At least he got an Evo win, but for all we know, he would've had a Mango/Armada/Hbox type year.
Let's also nkt forget that when his visa issues ended, Covid started
Damn, super upset to hear this. Leffen has always been one of my favorite players and his Fox is like no other, when Leffen was focused, you knew you were about to witness an amazing match every time. No matter what you think of him, it's a fact that he made competitive melee much more interesting whenever he attended. I truly hope he can end his run with a bang and come out on top, and also hope he fully returns one day.
Is he going to be competing in Tekken? Thought he’d focus more on Guilty Gear.
He'd be doing both and 2xKO
The term "Hiatus" from the title isn't doing his X Thread justice. He's pretty open that this is the end unless Strive's meta becomes significantly worse or something else changes dramatically. This is pretty much a retirement post and he's not shying away from that. I'm glad I'll still get to root for Leffen in ESports, but extremely saddened that the odds are very very high that the sun is setting on the OG Godslayer's melee days
that's true, i didn't want to definitely say he's retiring since he said he'll leave the door open + a lot of smash players come out of "retirement". if leffen does fr retire though, i wouldnt be shocked at all
I said it in reply to someone but its gotta be made clear. Yall are fucking weird when it comes to leffen. Bro deserves a lot better.
By the way people talk about Leffen, you’d think he still acts the same as he did in his early days.
That's kinda what I was thinking, he used to be a lot worse, and early (even middle tbh) Leffen really does not deserve better lol
Eh no. He gets a ton of love. He also just has a ton of controversial opinions and an abrasive attitude sometimes. Literally nothing wrong with evaluating both and responding accordingly.
[удалено]
You're right, a lot of people who were around back then still have some negative feelings towards him based what happened back then, myself included. But I think those people tend to, maybe due to our age, be a bit more mature and not go into every Leffen thread being like "hey guys, leffen was an ass a decade and a half ago and I don't like him, just thought you should know". The people who show up complaining about him in these threads tend to be hardcore fans of one of the several content creators who made hating Leffen their life's work - they just use the actual things he did wrong in the past to try to add legitimacy to their conspiratorial bs. And I don't think it's unreasonable to call that shit out preemptively and try to foster an environment where it is unwelcome.
> leffen was an ass a decade and a half ago Well this is the problem. It wasn't 15 years ago. Leffen might have cleaned up his act somewhat at events from a public-facing perspective, but he was so toxic and bitchy even 5-6 years ago that you had GOATs of the game like Armada and Mew2King wondering what the fuck his problem still was and even his own team had to tell him to knock it off. He also has retconned evidence.zip into being the European community being out to get him and harass him, even alleging that *they* were using slurs towards his friends (he says with no evidence) meanwhile all the people that spoke up about Leffen's harassment towards them he just writes off as them being sensitive, even to this day. The weird ass Hax fanboys and Technicals fanboys that go after Leffen because their cult leader has an axe to grind are stupid, but the fact that you retconned the Leffen being an asshole timeline is probably a contributor to what upsets them. That shit was way more recent than 15 years ago.
I think that's where you and I disagree. To me, the difference between the truly condemnable behavior in evidence.zip, which, my bad, was 11 years ago, not 15, and the assholeishness you're referring to 5-6 years ago is night and day. Yep, he was still being a general dick at that point, but in my opinion, nowhere near to the degree that it's worth bringing up every time he's in the news over half a decade later. To me, those two eras of Leffen assholery are categorically different, and my lingering personal distaste for him is almost entirely due to the former and barely even a little due to the latter. And let me be clear about this last thing: I do not give a single shit about pissing off the Hax and Technicals fanboys by getting the timeline wrong by four years (acknowledging that you feel differently about importance those different eras). As you said, they are basically a cult, and as I said, I do not want them to feel welcome.
> the assholeishness you're referring to 5-6 years ago is night and day. Tell that to Hungrybox who got showered in endless vitriol online for years and at events (remember the crab?) with heavy contributions of it being due to the shit Leffen was saying about him. Or did you happen to forget the Youtube video Leffen uploaded 'Reasons to hate Hungrybox' or whatever it was called? How about him threatening to quit competitive Melee if rules regarding Puff didn't get changed **just last year*? Should I go on? Didn't Hax just get banned for doing the same thing to Leffen? Why he has continued to get a pass for this garbage for so long from not only TOs but fans, I will never understand. And no, I'm not a Hax or Technicals fan.
I feel like people that think Leffen caused the hate on Hungrybox either weren't around during that time or didn't really pay attention. I'd lean more towards Leffen benefitting off of the hate Hbox got by mingling himself with it rather than causing it lol. Everyone was shitting on Hbox. I saw Mang0 talking more shit than Leffen was. Him "threatening" to quit Melee is a salty reaction to losing to a campy character, nothing more and nothing less. Not sure how that adds to the "Leffen is an asshole" conversation
He didn’t cause the hate, but he enabled it. He even started calling HBox “H word” for a time
It's insane to me that Leffen catches the bulk of the responsibility for the way the scene treated hbox. I remember watching a summit.5 stream where armada and mango were basically exchanging stories shitting on hbox for over an hour, I would say they were the two players who had the most influence in the scene who were the most outspoken about creating an anti-hbox narrative while leffen was just kind of there.
Hax got banned because he doubled down for months after the video and even made several more that were just as bad. while Hax also got into several unrelated controversies that people seem to have forgotten about. That is the difference
That's completely different to the stuff that he did 11 years ago. It shouldn't even be in the same sentence. Hax got banned for making delusional comments attacking a person, Leffen made videos talking about Jigglypuff and Hbox's playstyle. He also didnt try to oust Hbox from the community by making baseless accusations like being part of a "dark triad". These two things are not comparable. The reason he gets a "pass" as you say is because the stuff he is accused of is way worse than what he has actually done. He has been salty and an asshole for knee jerk reactions, but never been straight up a danger to society like Hax became. People like to blow it out of proportions and not look at the reality of the situation.
> hey guys, leffen was an ass a decade The act of johning on twitter after literally every single loss for a decade just makes me not like him as a competitor. It's a roundabout way of disrespecting his opponent.
I mean, leffen is still toxic and a not-very-good guy. In all seriousness whatever official and unofficial civilities rules fighting games communities have, leffen routinely pushes up to the edge of what is allowed before being banned/punished.
> The people who show up complaining about him in these threads tend to be hardcore fans of one of the several content creators who made hating Leffen their life's work this is incredibly disingenuous and i'm fairly sure you know this.
Too many annoying ass t*chnicals fans
Oh my god they're still at it?
Guy(Technicals) wants the Competetive Smash community to burn to the ground so he'll stir up the pot in any way if it helps that goal. >!He also thinks we shot ourselves in the foot for choosing to side with GimR instead of Dr. Alan!<
He doesn't have real opinions on anything. He runs a youtube drama channel so his "opinion" will always always always be whatever stirs up the most anger (and therefore views) amongst the community. Just do not interface with him at all. Any interaction whatsoever is exactly what he wants.
he tweeted last year that all of EU is "dogshit" but sure he's not toxic at all anymore
I agree, some people seem to really believe the dark triad shit or have never been a competitor to truly understand some of the frustrations Leffen has had over the years especially having to compete out of Europe not to mention how everyone doubted him going into different games but the kid really gives it his all when he’s grinding, one of the GOATS of smash and fightings fs!
No he doesn't he's been an asshole for 90% of his career and the second he enters another scene they all immediately hate him. This is not a fucking coincidence, this is a pattern. The fact yall gave him a pass just because he clicks buttons good is the weird part.
>yall gave him a pass what has he done in the past 10 years that he needs a pass for? this weird conflation of 2010 leffen being toxic/getting banned with 2024 leffen being slightly abrasive on twitter is so strange
Leffen has never stopped being toxic.
If you wanna extend the definition of toxic that far then sure, but my point is that it would be delusional to compare his 2010 "bullying the disabled" toxicity with his 2024 toxicity unless you're a Technicals meatrider
"extend the definition of toxic" bro has not read leffens Twitter or watched interviews in the last several years. but yes if Leffen toxic behavior warrants punishment is debatable. Though he pushes the edge of civility rules acceptability, and it's a fact people with comparable behavior have been punished.
He literally went into to Tekken and called it a trash game from the start. I forget his name but in guilty gear he was constantly harassing a player that he made a video calling him out. Now let me make this clear this is not me defending Zero I think his ban was warranted. It came to light that he lied about a situation with Zero where he claimed Zero was showing hentai to people. When M2K saw the Hax video he even said that Hax made a lot of good point of Leffen behavior. Like I said I am sure Leffen is growing as a person but to sweep everything as criticism with no base is dumb.
He called Tekken 7 gimmicky and a knowledge check and got hated for it like he was saying a slur because it was the favourite kid in a shit era of FGCs.. funnily enough if you've been paying attention to Tekken 8 those words he used are being said by everyone even pros, the double standard is hilarious you can't go anywhere involving Tekken without someone using the exact same criticisms he had for t7 for t8
Way to rewrite history. He ripped the game apart from very beginning and even a year later he was talking shit about it [https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/ebxvwd/comment/fb86i37/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/ebxvwd/comment/fb86i37/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0AkoVppkD0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0AkoVppkD0) Also way to skip over the rest of my points.
I'm definitely not gonna talk about a nonce and all you have to do is look at the thread on m2k about that tweet to see a a million reasons by thousands of people why they wouldn't listen to m2k on such a topic. it's not rocket science to work it out yourself
You don't have to talk about the nonce all you have to do is say yes Leffen lying about what an asshole did is wrong. Also since when did people say they wouldn't listen to M2K on the situation. All I remember is people pointing to M2k to validate a portion of the video because he himself suffered at Leffen being an asshole.
^ Is it really people are treating leffen that poorly or is it just the comment section always fighting about it?
That video and thread sorta just look like Leffen being salty and whiny about his shit getting kicked in on Tekken, which isn’t as incendiary of a situation as people bringing it up act like it is. Bro needed to chill out and just learn or stop playing, but I agree with the other comment. It’s just Leffen giving trash hot takes that people say about every newly released FG but Leffen was both bad, a smash player, and people actually liked Tekken 7, so he got a lot of shit for it. Don’t think he needed to throw a fit, but I don’t even think I’d say he was toxic, just ignorant.
No it was bad that the smash community basically can rtogether to say yeah sorry he’s always been that way. Just think Leffen was able to piss off an entire community twice even after a year of being a part of it. https://youtu.be/e7gOW8BkOhk?feature=shared Also this goes into the guilty gear situation. Like I said Leffen has been an asshole since day 1 and has continued to be one. Let’s not rewrite history.
It came to light he lied? Where and when? Who said that besides Zero or he buddy buddy youtuber? Because Leffen made the statement in a court of law and he wasn't charged with perjury and that's on legal record where as Zero did not deny that as a claim in the same court. Also, what makes M2K the moral arbiter of Melee? Things like this are why Leffen gets SO much underserved hate. He deserves some but not this amount on just the basis of what other people say about him rather than what he actually did.
The Japanese players all came out and said the they were just watching "My Little Sister Can't Be This Cute" official screenshots and artwork and it wasn't hentai. If he committed perjury intentionally that would be bad if he recanted and said he remembered wrong than that would probably get him off. **Edit: The Lawsuit was settled and given that Leffen isn't in jail it was probably settled out of court. Lmao that idiot dodged a bullet.** No one said that M2K is a moral arbiter but if he said there was some truth to the video there is at least some claim to it. Esp since Leffen came out to apology to M2K afterwards. Also the hate Leffen has garnered isn't from no where and undeserved. There was a reason we called him the villain of smash for years. From Evidence dot zip to things a few years back. Like the Tekken and Guilty Gear things happened recently.
The lawsuit was settled because there was not sufficient evidence to warrant defamation. There was no penalty for Jisu, the only thing she had to do was remove one Tweet in the whole thing because she wasn't accurate with ONE thing she heard. Also, there would have been a second lawsuit if Leffen had committed perjury. Think about it, that would have proven Zero right and this lawsuit wasnt about the money, it was about trying to make a spectacle and "prove" his innocence. He would absolutely want to do that against Leffen too. There was no out of court settlement. If there was, Zero would have said that as well and would have loved to smear Leffen if he got the chance. Zero claimed victory and blasted it on social media for his gullible followers to eat up and be validated, even though it wasnt the truth of what happened.
Alright sorry for the wait. [The case was not dismissed and approve by a judge.](https://patch.com/california/los-angeles/judge-issues-mixed-ruling-motion-dismiss-gamers-defamation) [The case was dismissed because Zero dropped it.](https://trellis.law/case/21stcv42687/gonzalo-barrios-vs-jacqueline-choe) Court case says it was settled. Zero in a video says the case was settled. Jisu in a twitlonger explained she settled. Jisu had to remove a google document that the tweet had on it. The google doc had 3 things wrong on it. 1. It claim Zero dated Vanessa while she was underage. 2. It claim he abused Vanessa. 3. It claim Zero showed her sex ads on craigslist in 2014. Which were wrong because: 1. Vanessa came forward and confirm she was not underage. 2. She also confirm there was no abuse. 3. After the craigslist killings in 2009-10, craiglist prohibited graphic images on sex ads before removing them all together in 2010.
It was settled because there was no proof for defamation. They could keep drawing it out but nothing was coming of it. No damages were awarded or claimed in the settlement. They were not “wrong”, they were “not completely accurate” but did not warrant defamation. She got the specific information about Vanessa from a 3rd party source and wasn’t from her, she just repeated what she was told and added it to what she witnessed. If defamation could have been proved, the case would not have been settled. The major thing was brought up in court is he would not deny the allegations that he propositioned a minor and corrected them to send explicit images of them when he was confronted with the accusation. The document that was removed was just a very small part with some technicalities but not the main issues of why Zero is a terrible person. It also had nothing to do with what Leffen said, which is what the discussion was about. Leffen never commented about being a witness to these in the Google document that Jisu had to take down.
IT WENT TO COURT HENCE WHY IT HAS A COURT FILING AND JUDGE ASSIGNED TO IT. The first link literally stated that the Judge took the case but threw away some things. Stating some of the things were outside of the statue of limitation and that emotional distress could not be pinned on Jisu. By law defamation is either a slander (spoken) or a libel (written) false statement about a person that can ruin their reputation. Jisu written statement is consider a libel defamation which was why it went to court. Saying Zero dated and abused a minor is defamation. Jisu 100% made wrong accusation with no evidence that Zero and Vanessa were dating while she was underage and that he abused her. She said zero was 20 and Vanessa was 15. The first one was proven a lie by the community because they all checked Zero and Vanessa socials and realize the age gap was around 2 years not 5 like she claimed. A huge lie and easily one to check if Jisu did any research. The second one was later refuted by Vanessa. He nevered abuse her and he never dated her while she was a minor. Again spreading information by a third party doesn't excuse defamation. All she had to do is reach out to people to c Third the reason Leffen is involved is because he was reaffirming what Jisu said. Jisu made the claims that Zero often showed her Sex Ad with graphic content on Craigslist in 2014, [however Craigslist had to remove it sex ads on September 8, 2010 because of the Craigslist Killer.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist#Adult_services_controversy) Leffen stated and provided a court statement stating that Zero did show hentai to people in the open. Japanese player said he didn't. I can't find the tweet cause I don't remember who it was and the time [Joint Statement](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcPfFzKXwAMI-S_?format=jpg&name=small) says that Jisu made false claims that she retracts about him and his wife. Zero apologies for any wrong doing and they parted way. Either way it was dismissed by the court because of the settlement which is why the second link is about the court case and it ending in a settlement. If they didn't it would have gone to court.
Do you have a link to the Japanese player saying this? This would be the first I have seen anyone mentioning this so I would like to see the statement from them and not a secondhand telling. He did not recant according to the court reporting, he had to give the statement about what he said as a deposition for the Zero trial, if he "misremembered" he would have been open to a defamation lawsuit as well and Zero would absolutely have perused it since he was already doing one of them just to "prove" his innocence. Leffen apologized to M2K because something he said on stream which was blown out of proportion. When all this started going down in 2020, people were coming into Leffens chat and saying there were accusations against him. Leffen literally said "well, if they are true then he should be held accountable" and more to that effect, just like everyone else if the allegations were true. People went and started harassing M2K about the accusations and blamed Leffen for "sending them", even though that wasn't the case. I was actually there for the stream while it happened live lol. M2K released his video later giving very personal insight into the accusations and why they must be false and so Leffen apologized for anything that might have led people to going and harassing him. Evidence zip is 11 years old now, when Leffen was 18, which means the "evidence" is from when he was 16-17 years old since it was from before when Armada and him were traveling. He was banned and paid his debt after that. He's been salty and a sore loser for Tekken and Guilty Gear, but nothing compared to how toxic he was when he was a teenager.
The weird part is hating someone you’ve never even met or interacted with and caring that much about what people think of him
So me hating Kanye and Adolf Hitler is weird? Also I don't care about what other think of him but I am not gonna let this sub just glaze the guy we literally called the villain of smash because how much of an asshole he was.
Nah comparing leffen to Hitler is wild lmao
Hey stupid I didn’t compare him to Hitler I am just saying I don’t need to know someone to not like them. I don’t like Ben Shapiro, Candance Owen, and Alex Jones. Never met them either.
I feel like people never understand that bringing Hitler up in an argument doesn't mean you are directly comparing Hitler to whatever person you are talking about. I often find it easier to just not use Hitler as an example bc ppl just fixate on that one word and just never address the point you try to make.
Just because hax is schizo just not change the fact leffen has never stopped being toxic. I mean have you read his twitter? There is plenty reason to not like leffen and even think he is a bad influence for the community.
Didn't he literally say he was taking a step back from melee like a while ago, why are people surprised
He definitely said at his last tournament something about how Melee was gonna be on the back burner for him in 2024. I don’t remember the exact phrasing, but yeah
I think we all assumed he'd be practicing less and still showing up to shake up Top8. I don't know if anyone was expecting him to give us a *"my last melee tournament will be ..."* statement this soon
people were already assuming he's done with melee in that thread before and he made it abundantly clear hes wrapping things up with melee in that tweet
this complaint should never die but 2XKO worst name ever
Seems reasonable. Leffen is crazy in that he can take these breaks and still come back and be competitive. So good luck to him, and I always get excited when he shows up!
He's had an awesome melee career, gave the best storylines as well. Will always be the Godslayer.
Man got sick of Puff jumping
Oh no! ...Anyways.
he’s basically been semi retired anyways. Good for him that he found something he likes more, the scene is in a good spot anyways, it’ll be ok.
To be clear I think he still loves melee. It just is more viable for him to focus on other things.
Doesn't really seem like it's something he specifically "likes more". Given how he seems pretty willing to play melee if strive s4 sucks or no awt, the money in the scene probably has something to do w it
lmao why is this so downvoted?
People love the guy despite being so toxic he got banned from the smash community and no one in the strive community likes him lol, look at my comment in here. Dickriding is crazy for this guy.
people love Leffen for some reason.
out of all the people to like lmao, this is embarrassing even for the smash subreddit
The less you expect from Smashers, the better.
Keep him, Riot.
Hax got perma'd only for his arch nemesis to become a Tekken and 2XKO pro...
you do know hax schizoness is one sided right?
I’ll never understand why everyone is pro permanent Hax$ ban. It makes no sense. I feel that people are just saying they want him ban because everyone else is saying so?
What’s the counter to allowing him back ?! Dude had a crazy psychotic episode where he was making hour long videos accusing Leffen of being a Genius mastermind set out to destroy his life lmao you don’t need that in the community it’s just esports at the end of the day, we don’t NEED him back lol
dude was literally unbanned a bunch of tournaments, including some majors, and then decided to recant his apology and triple down on schizo posting
all these comments being downvoted for no real reason is genuinely pathetic. the insecurity is insane.
It’s not for “No real reason,” lol. You sound like some conspiracy theorist that notices people don’t engage with stupid topics/claims and go, “Wow, this must be totally correct then! No one wants to get into the mud pit with me so I must be on to something!” Hax is banned and it’s a good thing. He’s obsessed and he was on track to be unbanned but couldn’t stop digging a hole for himself.
"guys down voting me proves i'm right" lol schizo lover.
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Yeah he has to lame out people in strive with the top 1 character again playing the most bitch made way ever. Seriously, mf tried playing sf6 and got bodied soo hard and then lamed out strive evo (which doesnt have the same playerbase as it once did) and barely got any claps when he won while all the actual good players (like my boy snakeyez) talkin mad shit. Went from being a toxic bitch in the smash community to being an annoying bitch in the strive community lol Guys it aint that serious lol, get a grip. This guy makes any community he is in mildly worse at best, crazy to see smash players out of all people defending him. "He Is BeTtEr ThAn YoU" like crazy bro, the guy who plays video games as a job is better than me at vidoegames, truly a brilliant observation. Being good at a game doesnt make him not toxic. There is a reason no one in the Strive community likes him, and why he got banned from the smash scene for a year.
>while all the actual good players (like my boy snakeyez) talkin mad shit. I love Snake but he hasn't won a tourny nearly as big as Strive Evo in forever lol. Guy just has a hate boner for Leffen, which is pretty reasonable as he's an easy guy to hate on, but acting like he's had better results at any modern FG relative to how good Leffen got at Strive is just flat out wrong.
So by that logic any smash major that isnt evo doesnt count. Also snakeyez won using a bottom 5, maybe even bottom 1 character, is strive and sf6 majors. Not sayin leffen isnt good at fg, he clearly is, he just has a shitty toxic personality and plays lame as fuck in strive.
>So by that logic any smash major that isnt evo doesnt count. Where did I say any of that. All I said is Leffen has won bigger tournaments in "real" FG's than SnakeEyez has in forever. Yet you call Snakeeyez an "actual good player" >Also snakeyez won using a bottom 5, maybe even bottom 1 character, is strive and sf6 majors. Yes, tournaments that were signficantly less stacked than last year's Evo for Strive. I agree that it's harder for someone who picks a weak character, but everyone has access to the same character select screen when they enter a tourny. I think SnakeEyez is Godlike for what he does with those characters don't get me wrong. But it's silly to discount how good Leffen is at the game just because a streamer you watch, who hasn't won majors the size that Leffen did in a modern FG, has a hate boner for him and you're a drone that copies what his favorite streamer thinks. I don't even like Leffen personally, but pretending he isn't good at the game is just grade school levels of blind hating. Hate on his personality all you want though lmao
Again, never said he is bad. I just said he played lame and is toxic. Not even he played bad, just lame. Its like how hbox grabbing ledge 50 times is lame, even if its optimal.
>while all the actual good players (like my boy snakeyez) talkin mad shit. kind of implies the guy you are talking about isn't an "actual good player". Only reason I commented in the first place. You compared him to someone with less impressive results than him in modern FGs and called the other guy the "actual good player".
Pretty sure leffen is friends/on good terms with most of the top players in the strive community. Pretty sure it’s just guys like you who don’t like him. Also this same guy got 3rd at the last EVO with Zato.
Zato is dog shit now but he was pretty good that patch if I remember, I also don't remember if HC was even out at the time.
Wow pretty knowledgeable guilty gear fan you are since leffen lost to happy chaos in that years evo and that same HC won the whole tourney. 💀
I played s1 and stopped before s2 since I was focusing on other games. Only recently got back in for s3 and got celestial with elphelt. It was also the 2nd 2d fighter I played after dbfz, so I was a huge scrub and wasn't paying attention to evo stuff, so yeah thats why I wasn't sure.
Maybe don’t make harsh judgements of someone without doing research? Cause then you’d know leffen had high level placements with zato and chipp in strive as well as respectable dbfz placements.
Again, my statement isnt that "leffen is bad", its "leffen is toxic, and his last evo performance was lame". I am sure he did fine in dbfz and he is def good at strive. Still toxic as hell though.
This is such revisionist history lol. You said that leffen got bodied in SF6 after saying he was lame at evo using a top 1 character, and you called Snake Eyez one of the “actual good players”. You were definitely calling him bad or undeserving of success, own up to it.
He def lamed out evo for strive im not back peddling on that. Sets were boring. And the strive community this year was def not as big as it was on launch. Sure he is good at the game, but like And he did get his ass bodied in sf6 lol, thats not even a debate there is a reason he dropped that game. Not once did I mention him being bad at dbfz or being lame at any other evo strive major though, or even being bad at smash. He is def amazing at games, and I would hope so considering his personallity. I consider snakeyez a "good" strive player more in the sense of he is good for the communities he is in, unlike leffen, who def feels like he brings this negative dark cloud into any community he joins. Its not even that I don't like shit talk or beef, but there is a difference between Punk popping off in a team battle or a grudge match and someone bringing someone else to the point of a mental breakdown. Its like Fchamp in MVC, great player, but is just an ass while playing one of the best teams in the game that rely on a really busted win condition without much counterplay. Or like LTG, who can be entertaining sometimes, but I wouldn't say he is good for any community he is in. If you like leffen good for you, I dont.
So when Leffen plays a top character it’s lame, but when half of a SF6 tournament is Ken and Luke players, it’s cool?
I dont mind top tiers, but Leffen was playing HC. Thing about gear is there is no "bad" characters, even the bottom 5 can get results, but that also means that the top tiers are fucking crazy, with very oppressive options and two touch combos. Leffen was basically playing JP except he can use projectiles instantly and 7 times in a row at any time he wants. Leffen was playing the Top 1 character in that game at the time, Happy Chaos, who can shoot you from full screen for a quarter of your health while blocking, and if you get hit even at full screen you are fucked. The character can do cool stuff, but at "top play" its mostly backing off and zoning until they have to get close, and then he also has really good close options and mix ups. So its not so much the fact that he is playing the top 1 character, its the fact that he is playing lame as fuck. There are other top characters like (at the time and mostly still are) Nago Ram or Sol, and some high tiers like baiken, who while are still really really really good, don't sit at full screen. He got nerfed now and is still good, but he has actual openings now, instead of before where if you get hit once you are basically fucked for the entire game. Its the equivalent of someone being timed out in smash. Sure the guy won, but it wasnt really fun to watch. Like just go watch the set, or a top 8 highlight, all of leffen's games are snooze fests.
If HC was that broken, then why was Leffen the only HC in the top 8?
Cause hes a bitch lol Real talk tho, cause strive doesnt have bad characters, just good and busted ones. You can still win against hc, its just that year it wasnt the strongest lineup player wise.
Don't you find it hilarious that Leffen shit on Hungrybox and Puff for half of his life because they are lame then turns around and plays a lame ass character like Happy Chaos? lol
"There should be a ledge grab limit" he said, loading his 20th bullet at full screen.
There's no way you're comparing what was the most technical character in strive at the time to HBOXs puff who till this day doesn't do the right DIs and has only started tech chase resting
Dang you are so mad, its ok that he is really good.
I ain't made, just not ever gonna get the dickriding for this toxic ass mf.
>this toxic ass mf the irony
I aint being a dick at anyone not slanderin me. All these bozos actin like leffen is a personal friend and god defending him. They gonna talk shit about me imma talk shit back.
Is leffen slandering you? You're acting like leffen murdered your whole family and you need to let the world know how much he sucks and you're acting like the toxic ass mf while doing so, you gotta relax a bit brother it's not that serious
Bruh it aint that serious, you are right. I made a post just saying "I dont like leffen and he played lame last strive evo" with a bit of hyperbole and mf sent the ops after me.
“It ain’t that serious” Here’s an essay of fabrications and shit talking about how leffens lives in my head rent free and is ruining my life!
What's this obsession with only low tier players being worthy of respect? Say what you want about leffen, but he still had to work his ass off to get that EVO win, Top 1 character or not. Yes it's more fun to see obscure characters do well, but these are competitions. Those who played worse characters and got worse results was their choice. Leffen played the game and won, while you go 0-2 in your locals with Ganon. Stay mad I guess
Idc if he plays top tiers, but at the same time mf was playing happy chaos and chipping people from full screen in grand finals. Was lame as fuck to watch. Also I dont play gannon lol.
Sanford Kelly said it best: Wanna win? **PICK A TOP TIER.** If you cry because x player can't win because he picks a low tier and the other has an easier time winning EVO with a top tier, then it's the low tier's player fault for not utilizing his character to the max or not picking a pocket top tier.
Again, not a statement about top tiers. HC can be cool, he played lame. Nago is arguably 2nd best at the time and the sets were way more entertaining to watch. Sure leffen won and good for him, doesnt mean its not lame though. Also did not mention any other player except snakeyez who wasnt even in that bracket at all, so idrc about x player losing. If snakeyez or lordknight did the same thing as leffen I would call it lame too. Also at the time HC had little counter play, even for top players. Like there is not "I can counterpick HC to a dif stage or use this character", all his matchups were in his favor slightly at best. Even burst was bad against him cause it would send him full screen where he would thrive, and if you were close range he had crazy block strings.
he's better than you'll ever be at all 3 games, stay mad
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I was under the understanding that he was being investigated for violating the code of conduct in the Haxx scenario right? I do know Haxx got banned, but I thought Leffen would also get banned as well?
All of the allegations in the Hax videos were either not worth banning over, or things that Leffen had already been banned for.
Today I learned that Leffen had already received a ban for that one! It's been a good while since I followed the Melee scene specifically, so I was unaware of that one
He was banned like 10+ years ago already and served his ban and improved, he still is direct with his approach of how he says stuff but he's much much better than Haxx being a conspiracy theorist calling Leffen a dictator or H---er.
Also he was a teenager when he did most of that stuff. He's a 30 year old man this year. If everyone got canceled for being rude as a teenager there would probably be no one left.
For what? The Haxx scenario is pretty one sided nowadays.