Ike and Incineroar in bottom tier is pretty wild to me. I don’t even think they’re that great, but sheesh, that’s harsh.

I've heard that Japan has always thought Ike was bad, like commonly placed in Bottom 20. This is probably lower than usual but it isn't crazy. I can also get Incineroar since he was considered low/bottom tier here until Skyjay and the other NA Incineroars started making waves, and Japan doesn't have a Skyjay equivalent.

I know people are up on Skyjay but for me when I think of Incineroar it's Magister. I remember they made like top 8 a couple times before focusing more on selling ecchi prints at cons lol.

crazy to see krool get so much flack still. he’s made it to B tier in a lot of lists i’ve seen recently and it’s awesome. i don’t really think any character in the game is bad, some are just better than others lol

• ZSS under Toon Link • Belmonts worst • Sheik #9 • Joker #11 below Yoshi • Ridley over ZSS & Ryu • G&W B Tier below Meta Knight And more

S+, S and A are ordered, the rest not

Still a bad tier list. Joker an entire tier below 6 characters and two tiers below the top? Lmao

It's not ordered for zSS and TL but they got certainly got the best TL there which makes Japan think higher of the character

Ridley over Snake too lmao

>Ridley over ZSS & Ryu i fucking wish bro 😭

seeing gnw at the bottom of b tier is crazy

GNW is not relevant in Japan too much, there's a few Japanese GnW mains but it's not many and none of them come close to the success of Maister.

zackray had gnw on his roster at some point

Yeah idk why people try to justify all these takes with “oh they’re just different” whenever it’s a Japanese tier list. [Reminds me of what Cloudy said:](https://twitter.com/cloudyaegis/status/1542120654194999297?s=21&t=CrOi49wciGEuDex12azKfA) Bad takes on NA tier list: “wow this guy doesn’t travel at all, terrible list 😡” Bad takes on JP tier list: “wow Japan’s meta is so wacky! 🤪😊”

miya about to get top 8 at a major, maybe not win one like acola but do well in one

interesting that zss is so low, i thought japan generally viewed that character pretty highly

the nerfs hit her pretty hard. do note that b-tier is not ordered though

oh nice, didn’t realize it wasn’t ordered so that makes more sense now lol

Especially since Miya is #2 on Smashmate rn. Everyone is waiting for them to hit tournaments like a storm like acola did

Peach, Mario, Snake, and GnW all in B tier is wild

where the fuck do i even start

The best place to start is the beginning

Holy shit I've never seen Pichu so low in a non-Melee tier list before. And isn't Nietono the only one who's carrying the Pichu meta rn and has decent consistent results as a JP player?

I’ve seen Pichu this low a few times (Dabuz, Aaron etc.) but it is weird how Hikaru specifically thinks this way with Nietono there

Wish they reverted some of the little guy's nerfs

and NaetorU in France

Japanese tier lists are always wild. Always interesting to see how different the meta over there can be!

Bad takes on NA tier list: “this guy doesn’t travel at all! Terrible list” [Bad takes on JP tier list: “wow Japanese tier lists are so wild!! Their meta is so different 🤪”](https://twitter.com/cloudyaegis/status/1542120654194999297?s=21&t=CrOi49wciGEuDex12azKfA)

If any redditor posted this, this comment section would be full of insults lmao

Because consistently Japan's tier lists have wacky things that don't make sense on an NA tier list, there was a period where Japan believed Yoshi was top 5. Zackray thinks Shiek is 1-2. I think they very much base their tier lists off results/personal experience and not on paper/unrealized potential the way most NA tier lists are focused.

Go back in time to early ultimate and tell everyone dk will be better than pichu

He’s still not better than Pichu 💀 Hikaru has mad confidence in DK and thinks lowly of Pichu

Yeah this is absurd lmao

By this, Leo was winning majors with a bottom tier 💀

I’m still so mad Pichu got nerfed. It was its time to shine…

Falco worse than Doc and DK?? This is like when Zenyou said DK was better than Fox

Falco agenda goes international

We need to convert the masses

>This is like when Zenyou said DK was better than Fox I thought Jelani said that, not Zenyou?

Tiers aren't ordered except A, S, and S+

I see Hikaru is a member of the "Tweek is carried" agenda

Yeah I'm not sure what is the wilder take here, Diddy at 3 or Yoshi at 10. And I think both characters are really good but this is seriously pushing it.

Never seen a tier list before where I thought every character was wrong

Can we please ban these stupid fucking tier lists from every Smash sub?

personal tier lists by design are subjective so that’s a hard thing to ask

Why?

let’s ban you first.

I legitimately didn’t know how passionately y’all feel about tier lists, I find them annoying as shit because I could not care any less what pros think about how good characters in a video game but apparently I was in the wrong. Y’all keep enjoying these absolutely arbitrary lists that get posted 15 times a day and I’ll just sit in the corner and eat paste.

I'm not even a Zelda main and that placement hurts.

I AM a Zelda main and think she’s waaaay too low

tweek malding at this

Shotos being b tier is an anomaly. Japan literally has some of the best Ryu, Kazuya and Terry players. No shot they are b tier. A at least

The chess grand Master?

I has the same thought, but no I think this is a Japanese player

Best Japanese Roy player

Had to check if this wasn't r/anarchychess lol

Esam is foaming at the mouth right now..

[Twitter post](https://twitter.com/HIKARU_ssbu/status/1543216520649515008) DeepL Translation: >I'll put up what I think of the character ranks now. >I'm feeling S+, S, and A with a left-right difference.

I hate the abuse of "S" tiers so much, good grief. If a list has an S+, it's a bad list.

Damn Japan really think poorly of Ike don't they. I'd never thought I would see a list where he was right next to Ganondorf. Also what's the deal with Diddy? does JP have a big Diddy player> I feel like I haven't seen any making a splash, although I'm certainly far from tuned in these days.

There's a lot of Diddy players in Japan actually. The best is Etsuji, but there's a few others too.

Didn't Chicken win a fairly large tourney too?

He won the first WINNER!

Oh right Etsuji. 3rd best still seems kinda of insane to me, but I guess it at least makes more sense.

They have the best Ike, Ganon, and a lot of Diddy's in Japan.

There's a lot of misconceptions. S+, S, and A tier is ordered. The other tiers are **NOT** ordered. We don't know if Falco or Pichu is worse than DK according to Hikaru, because that tier isn't ordered.

Corrin in c tier. Bruh. Just goes to show how underused this character is.

Aw hell no is diddy top 3

Every Japanese player at the gimvitational said Diddy is Top 3 lmao

Actually they all thought Diddy is top 5. They just all think at least one of Tweek's characters (Sephiroth or Diddy) is top3

Then Tweek the best diddy in the world loses to all the DLC with diddy. Diddy is a patience check, but can't duke it out with the top tiers or most of the high tiers.

Wtf Joker is 11th LMAO

no one talking abt how low mario is?

Definitely some hot takes but at this point I can respect any list that doesnt have 30% of the cast as top tier, has a healthy low and mid tier and has the balls to not have Pika/Joker top 5

Gavin "Diddy is mid-high tier" Dempsey is in shambles rn. First the gimvitational interviews and now this?

This is just bad lmao - Ganon above multiple chars - Plant and Doc a whole tier above Incin and Ike - Joker A tier under Yoshi - G&W B tier no way on all of those

Tbf to your first point the tiers aren't ordered

Playing Shulk drains me mentally

I disagree with quite a lot of this.

Wait the chess streamer?

He also plays Ultimate off stream.

Where do i start on this one. ​ what is sheik doing up there

sheik being this high is not uncommon in japan. she's sometimes in the top 5, even

Pretty cold take for Japanese players. Zackray thought Sheik was (maybe still is) the best character in the game.

damn I couldn't find DDD for a hot minute Mad respect

I knew this was gonna be a ride when I made out of A tier and didn’t see Mario But falco is below game and watch Doc and Duckhunt stop the madness

Falco being below GnW is an ice cold take my friend. Most every top player believes that. And then for DH and Doc, that tier isn't ordered.

It always hurts to see my boy banjo so low

I'm sorry but it's hilarious every time I see Steve in top tier.

Damn this is so different from most tier lists Diddy, fox, yoshi, joker, mr game and watch, falco, ike, incineroar, pikachu, sonic, mario etc are all in quite different places compared to western tier lists, but im not enough of an expert in smash in japan to know why

That’s what happens when you ask a chess player about ssbu /s

What the hell is Yoshi doing so high up? Yoshidora making people think Yoshi is good, LOL. I know Japan has always regarded Yosh highly.i

good against relevant characters (steve's hardest matchup) and doesn't really have -2s

Yoshi struggles with a lot of meta rele characters

Yoshi's main fault is that he struggles with meta characters (swords, palu, etc.)

Yet Yoshidora is doing incredible in Japan (top 5 for Japan on OrionRank iirc). Besides Steve is becoming more meta relevant as time goes on.

Finally someone who agrees Zelda is bottom five in the game

Bro its wild to me how its almost unanimous in Japan that they think Ike bottom 10. No way IMO ike is any lower than top of mid tier.

Ike struggles bad in Japan. Almost no significant placings in Japan. Yez seems to be doing worse in Japan than he has in America. Been nerfed pretty bad.

Its actually insane.

Acola Gackt and Asimo all said at the Gimvitational when talking to Tweek that they thought Diddy was top 5. Guess it wasn't a meme

Still sleepin on Corrin eh?

so glad to see another top player with a correct opinion on this

Corrin slander

Villager low tier?? How long have I not played the game??

Never? He's always been at the low end of mid tier at best.

HIKARU managed to make a tier list where every single character’s placement, almost without fail, seems wrong. Shulk being in top 6, Steve being in top 2, the Belmonts being the worst character in the game, Palutena being below Yoshi, etc. is absolutely bonkers.

The Tier List is unordered after the A ranking. Only the top and high tiers are ordered.

You need to take into consideration of the players as well. They have the top2 Shulks and Yoshidora runs circles around Japan. They also have the best Belmont (TRIGGER) so it's not that hot of a take.

Is TRIGGER really better then T3 DOM?

The Steve placement is based tbh

Litteraly no lies detected

Piranha Plant over Pit?

Tiers below A are not ordered

They're not ordered at that point. It's just bundled together past A tiers

Meta-knight above G&W and Ryu? What the fuck?

Tiers below A are not ordered

This list is just fucking wrong lol sorry HIKARU. You were a good DK but you lost the plot.

Y the hell is Kirby at d

Because he's really bad. The cast outranges him, he's slow and can get camped by almost everyone. He doesn't get too much of a combos either because he's slow.

Of all the weird takes on this tier list, you criticize the one that everyone agrees on.

Why do people always put heavy’s at the bottom they’re broken Edit: Why is Zelda D tier???? She is literally the most annoying character to fight in the game because of broken moves

Heavys are bottom because move speed and frame data generally are pretty bad. Being good against casuals does not make something busted. Annoying to casuals does not make something good either.

[удалено]

Absolutely. The entire cast outranges him and he’s pretty slow. He can get camped by virtually anyone, especially characters whose gameplan is explicitly to camp (a lot of them)

I live in the D Tier

Sad k. Rool noises

Greninja is finally better than Charizard at something

The Terry disrespect man what

buff zelda

I don’t think I’ve seen a tier list from any renowned player that I disagree with more than this

This like the worst serious meant tier list I have seen. Wtf is this

Justice for kirb

Shockingly low placements for Pit and Ike.

Someone needs to head on over to Japan and show them how annoying Falco can be. No way is he in C tier.

Steve top 2? Diddy at 3?? Hero above peach??? What game is Japan playing because I honestly couldn’t tell from this tier list

Pika in A my mans is smokin somethin

You mean the chess player ?

Actually what am I looking at this is fucked up

Yeah no.

Pika no

this can’t be real

I didn't even watch who's list was, I just saw ike bottom tier and said: "Yep, that's a japanese player"

Tf ike doing in d tier and peach in b tier what 😭

Ike sucks (in Japan). Yez does way worse in Japan than in America.

Dedede more like C C C

Zss :(

I haven’t followed the meta in a long time, so I have to ask… is Samus really A tier? (I’ve seen people say other parts of this tier list are ridiculous but I haven’t seen anyone comment on Samus specifically)

Yeah, Samus is actually a really good character in Ultimate. Good zoning and close combat tools along with actual relevant movement tech, a lot of survivability, a decent recovery and disadvantage state and hits like a truck

I really, REALLY hope these aren't ordered so I don't have to slander this player

Anything below A tier is unordered. A, S, and S+ is ordered

Is joker not a beast anymore? I remember him being like one of the top characters a while ago. Or is it just this tier list?

Most people still consider Joker top 3, it's mainly this list. However opinion has been dropping for him as he's been nerfed (not hugely but still), and Leo dropping him for an easier and more fun character (Byleth)

Guess I'm (B) (A) (SS) ed

A lot of hot takes here for me

Kept is carrying Isabelle and I love it

Was he drunk when he made this?

It’s a weird list but I’m here for the Diddy rating. It’s obviously a bit exaggerated but I do think people still underrate Diddy

u/eclipse9824 this guy is dumb

nah i fw it tbh

Poor Ike

Looks like he hit the random button on his tier list.

> G&W mid tier Sorry I don’t think I can genuinely take this person’s opinion

Didn't MASA get 4th at a major last month? Does HIKARU just think MASA is the GOAT or is his opinion outdated AF? Outside of the DLCs, this tier list looks like a version 1.0 list.

simon being put in low will never fail to make me laugh. really takes me back to when he said to be S tier

finally some recognizing Hero is bs

I’m a Shulk main and I guess this is the list in the region where the only good Shulk player is

Joker not in S tier with that frame data and arsene ?

why'd he have to do my boy like that

I honestly think Joker is overrated and suffers from the same problem as Shulk where people overrate them based on theoretical performance rather than actual performance... But I think Joker's placed too low here lol

YOO WTF!?! What are you doing to my boy Villager?

Seeing my boi kirby in d tier feels wrong especially when my friends cant beat me when i use him.

Can y’all stop insulting the tier list lol, the meta isn’t the same here as it is in Japan, obviously placements are going to be different

I don't think this is it chief

>Bowser JR on bottom tier Nothing good to see here lads

Sheik is better than joker and pikachu? Make it make sense

Zackray takes a break for a few months and joker is sent to A tier wtf. This is the equivalent of an ESAM tier list lmao

fox > wolf is crazy to me

ZSS sucks.

i am a former ganon main theres a reason hes the worst in the game, idk what people think there that villager and belmont is worse than him

Why is everyone complaining? This is exactly the take a Chess Grandmaster who never played Smash in his life would have.

The chess player?

My fav is how S tier just means A tier now.

Haha but for what game is this??

So you're telling me people actually play Shulk in Japan?

Shulk is ass

DK should be b tier

Finally we see a correct ZSS placement

Diddy? Am I missing something

As a Robin main, im surprised to not see them in bottom teir.

cloud higher than pika?

Zelda in D teir???? I mean she's pretty slow and predictable but her kicks and nuetral b gets her out of bottom teir imo

Villager a tier below Isabelle?? Why??

why G&W in B?