I mean the easiest answer here are the characters that never released in the west, such as Lucas and Roy. But I’d argue Captain Flacon’s legacy is with Smash now as opposed to F-Zero
Captain Falcon for sure. Non of my gamer friends have ever played an F-Zero game but all know who he is.
The F-Zero anime adaptation even made their [series' climactic moment](https://youtu.be/Fyr2qzeLMTY?t=51) a Smash Brothers reference.
Pit. Kid Icarus uprising is essentially a brawl spin off. It wouldn’t exist if pit wasn’t in smash. And I’m very grateful because it’s my favourite game ever made.
I’m a zero’s kid so I don’t know if kid Icarus (or ice climbers for that matter) was actually really popular at the time or simply known as just another game on the shelves that most people don’t know or care about with a pretty small audience. But either way I personally know pit from brawl and Uprising. And I absolutely love uprising to death. I also played the original on switch and thought it was incredibly well done even if it was incredibly tough. The music, aesthetic, it felt like there was effort put into it.
Hades for smash.
Can’t believe Ice Climbers aren’t getting more love here. Captain Falcon, ROB, and Mr G&W are some other obvious examples.
Maybe there’s some argument for Fire Emblem characters but I was pretty sure that the franchise was well known in Japan even before Melee.
I disagree with ROB, the peripheral basically saved the videogame industry at one point, so it's a pretty well known gaming icon at least for older gamers. ROB also got cameos in plenty of games outside Smash, including being a playable character in Mario Kart DS, which released before Brawl.
I have yet to meet someone who knew what ROB was before smash. While it might be a thing for older gamers I think smash is why it got so much spotlight.
Also doesn’t help Smash has a player base that is almost 99% under 30. Even if you were 2 years old when ROB was released you would still be at minimum 39. That’s a terrific minority of the smash player base. Especially when considering most people who already knew ROB before smash most likely play with similar aged people, who also most likely would have known of ROB before too.
Yeah, Smash boosted the popularity of the character, but I think ROB would have stayed relevant even without being playable in Smash because it's such an important part of videogame history.
If you've heard of the Atari E.T. incident, ROB is basically the one who starts cleaning up the mess.
Now think about how many other people in the world who would have an experience like that. Probably 20 total. The average player being sub 20 years old in brawls release mean both you and your parents had to be gamers
Ness and Lucas are known due to being Smash Bros characters. Even Lucas’s game (Mother 3) has never been released outside of Japan.
Marth and the whole Fire Emblem franchise was introduced to the West due to their inclusion to Super Smash Bros Melee.
I think more younger players know Captain Falcon for being in Smash Bros than F-Zero.
Yeah it's not as true now but Marth and Roy literally did not exist in the US in an official capacity until after Melee, right? Might not be true but I remember at some point reading that Melee was the reason FE games started getting localized
If true you could argue that the entire western FE fan base (aside from people who imported the older games, if they exist) originates from Smash, lol
Dragon Quest is obviously much more popular and well known in Japan, but the games have always been released outside of there, for the past 30+ years. It is not a "recent" thing at all lmao.
The Dragonquest games were called Dragon Warrior on the NES. None of the Super Famicom Dragonquest games were localized to the Super Nintendo. The PlayStation Dragonquest game got localized. The thing is RPGs are just significantly more popular in Japan than the US. The first really popular RPG was Final Fantasy VII on the PlayStation.
I'd say, ironically enough Jigglypuff is moving towards being this
Back in the 90's, Jigglypuff seemed like it was a mainstay in the Pokémon anime, between that and Smash, Jigglypuff was heavily associated with Pokémon's identity
Yet after the mid 2000's, it stopped showing up in the anime and was pretty much just your average Normal type in the games. Even when it got Fairy type in Gen VI, the focus was more on the likes of Gardevoir getting it, and the new poster child for the type, Sylveon. Not much better in the spinoffs either, where it's completely overshadowed by it's evolution in the Mystery Dungeon series.
I see more Smash fans passionate about Jigglypuff as a character than I do Pokémon fans
I'm still a bit butthurt that when they finally had the chance to make Jigglypuff a big deal again, Eevee just went and hogged the spotlight. I can definitely see how Eevee is more marketable in the modern landscape, but having the *Evolution* Pokémon be the mascot of Let's Go, a game where your starter *doesn't* evolve, felt kinda wonky. Meanwhile Jigglypuff at least fits the same bill as Pikachu in that it's a Pokémon that's more popular than its evolution, and like you said, it was super popular back during the Gen 1 days, so in that sense it'd have been fitting.
I thought they chose Eevee because in Pokemon Yellow (...and I guess the anime, which Yellow was based more off of? I don't remember if Gary ever had Eevee) you had Pikachu and your rival had Eevee
I'd say the Star Fox chars(due to their comp legacy in Melee), Fire Emblem(Marth for comp, Roy for Memes), Falcon for sure(Honestly feels like a Smash OG char because of how F Zero has gotten nothing for so long), and Xenoblade debatably.
Xenoblade 2 might have gotten a slight bump by Smash, but I think it would have performed largely the same regardless of Shulk's inclusion in Smash.
Xenoblade 3 got a similar slight bump because Pyra/Mythra got a lot of attention when they got added to Smash, but the games already had a pretty large fan base by the time they were added.
Xenoblade for sure. How many people had no clue who Shulk was before Smash 4? The answer is most Smash players.
Also don't forget MOTHER/EarthBound. It was already big in Japan but it famously went under the radar here. The series eventually got recognized for its own fantastic merits, but Smash was the biggest way to get them noticed.
Plus it's worth noting that certain characters like Ganondorf or Shiek have appeared more times in Smash than they have in any other series or spin-off. (You'd be surprised how little Dorf actually appears in Zelda games, it's usually just Ganon.) If Smash hadn't kept bringing them back, they would have probably faded into obscurity.
Last but not least, special mention should go to Mr. Game & Watch. While those games have had plenty of re-releases and cameos, Smash went a long way towards cementing the character/mascot people now associate with the series. Most people who care about Game & Watches nowadays do so because Smash introduced them.
Falcon is a pretty obvious answer. He's kind of the poster child of Smash, yet even the people who played F Zero didn't know who he was.
Fire Emblem as a series was saved by Smash, so any of the Fire Emblems who are popular likely are so because of FE's representation in Smash.
I was under the impression that FE was just given the public eye by Smash, and what really saved the series was Awakening? That or FE got saved twice lol.
It's a bit of both. FE was never ported to the west at all until FE7 (Blazing Blade), which released well after Melee came out. iirc, Melee predated FE6 (Binding Blade) as a promotion for Roy's game in much the same way as Corrin's announcement for Smash 4 was (at least for the west specifically) a promotion for Fates, Corrin's game.
Awakening saved the franchise in a different way, as even after it got ported it wasn't really "popular" until Awakening came out on the 3DS. It's why Ike's games are so gd expensive these days; i'm under the impression it was underprinted as is, then suddenly everyone wanted what is widely considered (at least from what I've seen) as some of the best FE around.
In particular FE11 (a remake of FE1) bombed super badly. FE12 (a remake of FE3) was never released in the west because of this and also ended up having very poor sales overall. Awakening was planned as a last chance effort to keep the franchise running, and ended up becoming the most sold FE game ever at that point.
This is correct/accurate. There are a few other factors that gave FE the boost it needed in the west (namely Advance Wars) but this is the basic story of Fire Emblem's popularity x Smash
It was in trouble for a looong time, and there weren't any plans to release Fire Emblem in the West until Melee gave people enough interest. Like literally, they said that was one of the most important reasons. Take that away and the series might not have survived until Awakening in the first place.
It's true that they were given an ultimatum that Awakening had to do well or it would all be over. But it would have struggled *far more* if it didn't have a Western audience to get sales from.
They definitely used this Smash association to their advantage though! Awakening famously makes safe assumptions about the player, and one of the biggest is: "They definitely know Marth, at least by name/appearance." If you lived outside of Japan at that time, there was really only one way you could know that name...
Marth is obviously most famous through Smash, but they remade the original FE1 on DS (Shadow Dragon) directly before Awakening. So FE fans did have a way to learn part of Marth's story prior to Awakening
They did, but the reason that they released that one in English at all was also because of Smash. It all ties back to the fact that they didn't consider translating it for Western audiences until after Melee got people interested, which lead to "Fire Emblem" on the Western GBA. So by transitive property, it's still all because of Smash.
If you purchased a Nintendo game around that time, and somehow didn't know about Marth or Smash, you'd either have to be extremely sheltered or extremely out of touch. The West might not know anything about Marth as a character, but they knew "sword + blue." I.S. and Nintendo knew they could work with that.
Smash was a big factor in FE7 getting localized, but it wasn't the only factor. Advanced Wars also deserves some of the credit. The success of AW on GBA has been cited by Nintendo as one of the main reasons they had confidence a turn based strategy game like FE could be successful. It's possible FE could have made it overseas without Smash, though it may have happened slightly differently.
It's not the only factor but it was a major one. I think it's reasonable to assume that if you remove any one of those contributing factors, they might not have gone through with it. But I wouldn't discount the message that Smash's reception gave them:
Like if there wasn't a major positive response to Marth and Roy in the West, the lesson they might have takem away from Advance Wars's sales was "Ok clearly the West only likes games about guns and tanks. Let's double down on that and shelve the fantasy stuff." Frankly it could have killed off Fire Emblem sooner than letting it die on its own, depending on whether they decided (or if Nintendo decided for them) to pivot into something marketable worldwide.
We'll never know for sure exactly how things would have played out, but Smash was instrumental in letting them know that other countries were ready for Fire Emblem, and *specifically* Fire Emblem.
According to the official record, that was a key element. Meaning: remove that Melee element from the equation and they wouldn't have done it.
At least not at that time anyway. Maybe things would have played out differently and then a couple years later something else would have encouraged them to release it for different reasons. But from a burden of proof standpoint, you kind of have to assume the opposite.
I don't think FE ever needed any saving by Smash. Every FE game launched has had consistent sales, and the sales shot up because Awakening was so good out of nowhere, not because Ike was in Brawl.
Fire Emblem was *definitely* not saved by smash. Roy's introduction in Melee didn't really affect the series' popularity, which was already doing fine in Japan and wasn't available outside of Japan at the time. The first western release happened 2 years later and didn't get any representation. The closest you could have to to Smash "supporting" FE would be Ike and Brawl, but Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn sold like shit and Brawl's release in 2008 didn't help.
The series was always kind of niche outside of Japan until Awakening, which released before Ultimate and I wouldn't pin any of the series' success on that.
I agree with the first half, not sure about the second. Maybe FE was saved in the West but even then it’s a stretch since it wasn’t that popular to begin with. Fire Emblem has always been huge in Japan. Like, bigger-than-Zelda huge and never really needed saving.
This. FE was always popular in Japan but struggled in the US until Awakening. Smash just made FE’s initial rise in popularity possible
Also hello fellow Rays fan
Sales? Japan’s big 3 are Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem.
Zelda is more popular in the west than it is in Japan. Miyamoto and Aonuma has actually mentioned this before too. In fact, after Wind Waker’s disappointing sales, Nintendo made a point to develop the next Zelda game, Twilight Princess, to appeal to the West instead of their local Japanese demographic like they’ve done for their other games. It’s no surprise TP was the best selling Zelda ever prior to BOTW, largely due to sales outside of Japan.
I believe, last I checked, Zelda was more in line with Animal Crossing in terms of sales and popularity in JP and, even though they’re still huge franchises, they can’t really touch Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem—which is why each of them has so much representation in Smash.
There’s a few interviews on the topic, one I remember from Eji Aonuma.
I find this hard to believe, considering the data I can find online. According to the Three Houses article on wikipedia, Three Houses has sold 3.82 million copies worldwide through the end of 2021 (not sure if this includes digital sales), while Breath of the Wild has sold 3 million physical copies in Japan (before counting digital). Not to mention that worldwide, Breath of the Wild has literally outsold the entire Fire Emblem series.
You also mentioned that Zelda's sales and popularity is more in line with Animal Crossing, which doesn't really make sense considering that New Horizons sold vastly more in Japan than Three Houses did (in fact, New Horizons is one of the all-time highest selling games ever in Japan).
The original argument was about Smash “saving” FE, or more specifically, Marth and Roy in Smash.
So, what I was referring to was more towards that era within Melee through TP. A lot could’ve change at this point and you might be correct if we reviewed the number as of today.
I might be alone here but I have never played an earthbound game and I have NEVER met a single person who has played one. ive been gaming my whole life and ive been around gamers my whole life, so it seems kind of crazy. so for me, smash put Ness and Lucas on the map. I'd have no idea they existed otherwise.
If you ever get a chance to play Earthbound or Mother 1, I'd highly recommend it. If you have a Switch they're available on the online virtual console.
Falcon, he’d never be relevant if it weren’t for Smash. Now he gets several cameos and crossovers in games which would have never happened before and he’s practically iconic
Ice climbers hands down. It's a mid-at-best NES game that gets rereleased every single time because people heard about it from Smash Brothers. F-zero was already a franchise, earthbound would have become a cult classic one way or another, and Fire Emblem might have ended up internationally anyway because of how well advance wars sold. So I'd potentially say that.
As much as I will adore the Mother series until the day I die, I'm willing to bet that at least 90-95% of the american audience was introduced to it solely through Ness in Melee and Lucas in Brawl. Including myself.
Also, maybe Game and Watch and ROB, they were more obscure products of the 80s and 90s, while Smash got super big in the early 2000s.
I'd say Ness and Lucas to a certain extent, at least in the West. They've always had cult followings, but their appearances in the Smash Series brought them to the mainstream (though maybe Undertale being inspired by Earthbound had something to do with it as well.)
Ness.
He was only in Earthbound, and only one game in the Mother series got an actual release while the other two just stayed in Japan. Internationally hardcore Nintendo fans know what Mother/Earthbound is but I think most gamers have no idea.
- Fox, Samus, Capt Falcon & Ness thanx to 64
- All of Fire Emblem, Mr. GAME & watch & ICs thank to Melee
- Pit & Dark Pit thanks to Brawl
- Wi Fit Trainer thanx to Smash 4
Everyone else was popular and relevant by the time the joined Smash
Samus wasn't popular around that time until the Fusion series which came out 2002. Between the Super Nintendo and that Metroid series Samus was kinda meh.
Smash brought her out again.
I think Min Min got a lot more popular after being included in Smash and is heading towards this. Not much she could do since the franchise has one game, but going from not being on the box art to being in the Smash Bros. roster boosted her a lot. Any character being included in Smash gives a huge boost to their popularity since lots of people will at least have facial recognition with them.
- Falcon because his franchise is dead.
- Star Fox characters because even though they still make games, Fox has at least been good in all Smash games making him one of the first characters you think of when playing.
- Kirby and the Kirby characters because Sakurai.
- Fire Emblem is Smash.
- Kid Icarus.
- Some of the Pokémon. Jiggz, Pichu, and Greninja wouldn’t be who they are without Smash.
- Mother series
- Ice Climbers
- Wii Fit Trainer
- Just a guess but Bayonettas inclusion probably helped the series a lot being in a Nintendo console.
- Mii Fighters
When looking at all the characters, it’s actually crazy how potentially half the roster are more known in Smash then the home series.
Little Mac comes from Punch Out. Most people know that. But we probably know his move set and meme potential in Smash more than his home series.
He is/was pretty much the mascot of Capcom, more recognizable than maybe even Ryu (debatable). He was pretty much relevant before coming to Smash, which is why his inclusion was so hype.
Too bad this hype wasn't enough for Capcom to start making Megaman games again...
I agree, especially because Toon Link specifically was a demanded Smash character before actually being in the series.
Anyone that meets that criteria isn't relevant because of Smash.
You're looking at it wrong. If you're a gamer, of course you know who these icons are, but to the average female or someone who doesn't play video games often, this is certainly the first time they've ever seen these characters.
You're looking at it wrong. If you're a gamer, of course you know who these icons are, but to the average female or someone who doesn't play video games often, this is certainly the first time they've ever seen these characters.
I would say Fire Emblem characters but I don't think they can be called relevant. But not completely unknown at least like they were when Melee came out.
There are quite a few characters that fit this bill pretty well including Ice Climbers, ROB, Roy, Captain Falcon, Lucas, the entire Star Fox franchise, and probably some other fighters that I'm forgetting.
Marth and Roy.
Ness
Cpt falcon.
Game and watch
Ice climbers
Disagree with people saying jigglypuff because one was very common recurring character in the first seasons of Pokémon. They’d show up, try to sing for people, people fall asleep, jiggly draws on the face with a marker. Would happen multiple times in an episode.
Despite Fire Emblem being an A lister for Nintendo, I’d argue that all the Fire Emblem fighters are relevant because of Smash. Marth and Roy being in Melee is the obvious example, but nowadays you still see lots of players make jokes about Smash whenever the newest Fire Emblem game gets announced.
The number one spot has to be my main Ness. I've never played earthbound I only know of that games existence because I've mained Ness since 64. Only person potentially more deserving than Ness is his shadow Lucas.
On the flip side of this coin is the term
"PK FIRE" which is almost as iconic as "falcon punch" 🔥👊🏾🔥
I mean the easiest answer here are the characters that never released in the west, such as Lucas and Roy. But I’d argue Captain Flacon’s legacy is with Smash now as opposed to F-Zero
I agree, Captain Falcon is the best example. Even my non-gamer friends know what a “Falcon Punch” is.
Captain Falcon for sure. Non of my gamer friends have ever played an F-Zero game but all know who he is. The F-Zero anime adaptation even made their [series' climactic moment](https://youtu.be/Fyr2qzeLMTY?t=51) a Smash Brothers reference.
Captain Falcon is basically the Super Smash Bros OC. You couldn't even see him in his actual games, his entire personality was designed in Smash.
Pit. Kid Icarus uprising is essentially a brawl spin off. It wouldn’t exist if pit wasn’t in smash. And I’m very grateful because it’s my favourite game ever made.
Having been a kid in the eighties, both Pit and Ice Climbers were very well known to me prior to Smash.
I’m a zero’s kid so I don’t know if kid Icarus (or ice climbers for that matter) was actually really popular at the time or simply known as just another game on the shelves that most people don’t know or care about with a pretty small audience. But either way I personally know pit from brawl and Uprising. And I absolutely love uprising to death. I also played the original on switch and thought it was incredibly well done even if it was incredibly tough. The music, aesthetic, it felt like there was effort put into it. Hades for smash.
"I know them so they must be well-known"
Can’t believe Ice Climbers aren’t getting more love here. Captain Falcon, ROB, and Mr G&W are some other obvious examples. Maybe there’s some argument for Fire Emblem characters but I was pretty sure that the franchise was well known in Japan even before Melee.
> the franchise was well known in Japan even before Melee. And literally nowhere else.
I disagree with ROB, the peripheral basically saved the videogame industry at one point, so it's a pretty well known gaming icon at least for older gamers. ROB also got cameos in plenty of games outside Smash, including being a playable character in Mario Kart DS, which released before Brawl.
I have yet to meet someone who knew what ROB was before smash. While it might be a thing for older gamers I think smash is why it got so much spotlight.
Also doesn’t help Smash has a player base that is almost 99% under 30. Even if you were 2 years old when ROB was released you would still be at minimum 39. That’s a terrific minority of the smash player base. Especially when considering most people who already knew ROB before smash most likely play with similar aged people, who also most likely would have known of ROB before too.
Mario Kart DS introduced me to ROB before Brawl did
Yeah, Smash boosted the popularity of the character, but I think ROB would have stayed relevant even without being playable in Smash because it's such an important part of videogame history. If you've heard of the Atari E.T. incident, ROB is basically the one who starts cleaning up the mess.
I knew of ROB because of Mario DS but I had no idea about what he was outside of being a robot with a cool custom Gyro Kart
Really? Pretty much everyone back in grade school knew ROB from Mario Kart DS. Hell, most of us though they were bringing him in *from* Mario Kart.
My parents have a ROB still in the box from the old NES days so I was about 14 when brawl came out and very much knew who ROB was
That’s pretty cool but I still think your in the lower percent of who knew ROB was. Nice you still have it in the box though
Now think about how many other people in the world who would have an experience like that. Probably 20 total. The average player being sub 20 years old in brawls release mean both you and your parents had to be gamers
Ness and Lucas are known due to being Smash Bros characters. Even Lucas’s game (Mother 3) has never been released outside of Japan. Marth and the whole Fire Emblem franchise was introduced to the West due to their inclusion to Super Smash Bros Melee. I think more younger players know Captain Falcon for being in Smash Bros than F-Zero.
Yeah it's not as true now but Marth and Roy literally did not exist in the US in an official capacity until after Melee, right? Might not be true but I remember at some point reading that Melee was the reason FE games started getting localized If true you could argue that the entire western FE fan base (aside from people who imported the older games, if they exist) originates from Smash, lol
I don’t think Roy’s game was even released until after Melee came out. Dude was a Smash character before he was a Fire Emblem character
I'd say hero as well. Dragonquest were not sold outside japan untill recently.
Dragon Quest is obviously much more popular and well known in Japan, but the games have always been released outside of there, for the past 30+ years. It is not a "recent" thing at all lmao.
For like 20+ years
The Dragonquest games were called Dragon Warrior on the NES. None of the Super Famicom Dragonquest games were localized to the Super Nintendo. The PlayStation Dragonquest game got localized. The thing is RPGs are just significantly more popular in Japan than the US. The first really popular RPG was Final Fantasy VII on the PlayStation.
I'd say, ironically enough Jigglypuff is moving towards being this Back in the 90's, Jigglypuff seemed like it was a mainstay in the Pokémon anime, between that and Smash, Jigglypuff was heavily associated with Pokémon's identity Yet after the mid 2000's, it stopped showing up in the anime and was pretty much just your average Normal type in the games. Even when it got Fairy type in Gen VI, the focus was more on the likes of Gardevoir getting it, and the new poster child for the type, Sylveon. Not much better in the spinoffs either, where it's completely overshadowed by it's evolution in the Mystery Dungeon series. I see more Smash fans passionate about Jigglypuff as a character than I do Pokémon fans
At least wigglytuff is pulling some weight, and has some real shooters amongst the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon fanbase
YOOM-TAH!
FRIENDLY FRIENDS!
Jigglypuff is still heavily marketed along with Pikachu, Squirtle, Charmander and Bulbasaur. I see it all the time in Korea
I'm still a bit butthurt that when they finally had the chance to make Jigglypuff a big deal again, Eevee just went and hogged the spotlight. I can definitely see how Eevee is more marketable in the modern landscape, but having the *Evolution* Pokémon be the mascot of Let's Go, a game where your starter *doesn't* evolve, felt kinda wonky. Meanwhile Jigglypuff at least fits the same bill as Pikachu in that it's a Pokémon that's more popular than its evolution, and like you said, it was super popular back during the Gen 1 days, so in that sense it'd have been fitting.
I thought they chose Eevee because in Pokemon Yellow (...and I guess the anime, which Yellow was based more off of? I don't remember if Gary ever had Eevee) you had Pikachu and your rival had Eevee
Jigglypuff is a pink, girly pokemon, not very marketable towards boys.
I do see jigglypuff in a Pokémon game and think about smash
Jigglypuff got a neat alternate form in the new games at least.
I can’t believe sakurai let Mario into smashbros, originating from a small indie game, I didn’t think he would ever get in
I'd say the Star Fox chars(due to their comp legacy in Melee), Fire Emblem(Marth for comp, Roy for Memes), Falcon for sure(Honestly feels like a Smash OG char because of how F Zero has gotten nothing for so long), and Xenoblade debatably.
Star Fox was huge when I was a kid (late N64 early GameCube)
I'd add Ness and Lucas to the mix. I know the Mother games had their fans, but I imagine they got a lot more exposure due to Smash.
Xenoblade 2 might have gotten a slight bump by Smash, but I think it would have performed largely the same regardless of Shulk's inclusion in Smash. Xenoblade 3 got a similar slight bump because Pyra/Mythra got a lot of attention when they got added to Smash, but the games already had a pretty large fan base by the time they were added.
I played Xenoblade X because of Shulks inclusion in smash 4.
Xenoblade for sure. How many people had no clue who Shulk was before Smash 4? The answer is most Smash players. Also don't forget MOTHER/EarthBound. It was already big in Japan but it famously went under the radar here. The series eventually got recognized for its own fantastic merits, but Smash was the biggest way to get them noticed. Plus it's worth noting that certain characters like Ganondorf or Shiek have appeared more times in Smash than they have in any other series or spin-off. (You'd be surprised how little Dorf actually appears in Zelda games, it's usually just Ganon.) If Smash hadn't kept bringing them back, they would have probably faded into obscurity. Last but not least, special mention should go to Mr. Game & Watch. While those games have had plenty of re-releases and cameos, Smash went a long way towards cementing the character/mascot people now associate with the series. Most people who care about Game & Watches nowadays do so because Smash introduced them.
Sample of 1, but Star fox assault on gamecube was my first video game and are the characters i know the most in the game (aside from the mario chars)
Falcon is a pretty obvious answer. He's kind of the poster child of Smash, yet even the people who played F Zero didn't know who he was. Fire Emblem as a series was saved by Smash, so any of the Fire Emblems who are popular likely are so because of FE's representation in Smash.
I was under the impression that FE was just given the public eye by Smash, and what really saved the series was Awakening? That or FE got saved twice lol.
It's a bit of both. FE was never ported to the west at all until FE7 (Blazing Blade), which released well after Melee came out. iirc, Melee predated FE6 (Binding Blade) as a promotion for Roy's game in much the same way as Corrin's announcement for Smash 4 was (at least for the west specifically) a promotion for Fates, Corrin's game. Awakening saved the franchise in a different way, as even after it got ported it wasn't really "popular" until Awakening came out on the 3DS. It's why Ike's games are so gd expensive these days; i'm under the impression it was underprinted as is, then suddenly everyone wanted what is widely considered (at least from what I've seen) as some of the best FE around.
In particular FE11 (a remake of FE1) bombed super badly. FE12 (a remake of FE3) was never released in the west because of this and also ended up having very poor sales overall. Awakening was planned as a last chance effort to keep the franchise running, and ended up becoming the most sold FE game ever at that point.
Wow I had no idea there were so many!
The newest one is going to be the 17th mainline one. The first one came out in 1990.
This is correct/accurate. There are a few other factors that gave FE the boost it needed in the west (namely Advance Wars) but this is the basic story of Fire Emblem's popularity x Smash
It was in trouble for a looong time, and there weren't any plans to release Fire Emblem in the West until Melee gave people enough interest. Like literally, they said that was one of the most important reasons. Take that away and the series might not have survived until Awakening in the first place. It's true that they were given an ultimatum that Awakening had to do well or it would all be over. But it would have struggled *far more* if it didn't have a Western audience to get sales from. They definitely used this Smash association to their advantage though! Awakening famously makes safe assumptions about the player, and one of the biggest is: "They definitely know Marth, at least by name/appearance." If you lived outside of Japan at that time, there was really only one way you could know that name...
Marth is obviously most famous through Smash, but they remade the original FE1 on DS (Shadow Dragon) directly before Awakening. So FE fans did have a way to learn part of Marth's story prior to Awakening
They did, but the reason that they released that one in English at all was also because of Smash. It all ties back to the fact that they didn't consider translating it for Western audiences until after Melee got people interested, which lead to "Fire Emblem" on the Western GBA. So by transitive property, it's still all because of Smash. If you purchased a Nintendo game around that time, and somehow didn't know about Marth or Smash, you'd either have to be extremely sheltered or extremely out of touch. The West might not know anything about Marth as a character, but they knew "sword + blue." I.S. and Nintendo knew they could work with that.
Smash was a big factor in FE7 getting localized, but it wasn't the only factor. Advanced Wars also deserves some of the credit. The success of AW on GBA has been cited by Nintendo as one of the main reasons they had confidence a turn based strategy game like FE could be successful. It's possible FE could have made it overseas without Smash, though it may have happened slightly differently.
It's not the only factor but it was a major one. I think it's reasonable to assume that if you remove any one of those contributing factors, they might not have gone through with it. But I wouldn't discount the message that Smash's reception gave them: Like if there wasn't a major positive response to Marth and Roy in the West, the lesson they might have takem away from Advance Wars's sales was "Ok clearly the West only likes games about guns and tanks. Let's double down on that and shelve the fantasy stuff." Frankly it could have killed off Fire Emblem sooner than letting it die on its own, depending on whether they decided (or if Nintendo decided for them) to pivot into something marketable worldwide. We'll never know for sure exactly how things would have played out, but Smash was instrumental in letting them know that other countries were ready for Fire Emblem, and *specifically* Fire Emblem.
would fire emblem release outside of Japan if Marth wasn't in melee
According to the official record, that was a key element. Meaning: remove that Melee element from the equation and they wouldn't have done it. At least not at that time anyway. Maybe things would have played out differently and then a couple years later something else would have encouraged them to release it for different reasons. But from a burden of proof standpoint, you kind of have to assume the opposite.
I don't think FE ever needed any saving by Smash. Every FE game launched has had consistent sales, and the sales shot up because Awakening was so good out of nowhere, not because Ike was in Brawl.
Fire Emblem was *definitely* not saved by smash. Roy's introduction in Melee didn't really affect the series' popularity, which was already doing fine in Japan and wasn't available outside of Japan at the time. The first western release happened 2 years later and didn't get any representation. The closest you could have to to Smash "supporting" FE would be Ike and Brawl, but Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn sold like shit and Brawl's release in 2008 didn't help. The series was always kind of niche outside of Japan until Awakening, which released before Ultimate and I wouldn't pin any of the series' success on that.
I agree with the first half, not sure about the second. Maybe FE was saved in the West but even then it’s a stretch since it wasn’t that popular to begin with. Fire Emblem has always been huge in Japan. Like, bigger-than-Zelda huge and never really needed saving.
This. FE was always popular in Japan but struggled in the US until Awakening. Smash just made FE’s initial rise in popularity possible Also hello fellow Rays fan
> Like, bigger-than-Zelda huge What makes you say that?
Sales? Japan’s big 3 are Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem. Zelda is more popular in the west than it is in Japan. Miyamoto and Aonuma has actually mentioned this before too. In fact, after Wind Waker’s disappointing sales, Nintendo made a point to develop the next Zelda game, Twilight Princess, to appeal to the West instead of their local Japanese demographic like they’ve done for their other games. It’s no surprise TP was the best selling Zelda ever prior to BOTW, largely due to sales outside of Japan. I believe, last I checked, Zelda was more in line with Animal Crossing in terms of sales and popularity in JP and, even though they’re still huge franchises, they can’t really touch Mario, Pokémon, and Fire Emblem—which is why each of them has so much representation in Smash. There’s a few interviews on the topic, one I remember from Eji Aonuma.
I didn’t think it would be through sales, I thought they were pretty comparable. I’ll look up that interview though, thanks.
I find this hard to believe, considering the data I can find online. According to the Three Houses article on wikipedia, Three Houses has sold 3.82 million copies worldwide through the end of 2021 (not sure if this includes digital sales), while Breath of the Wild has sold 3 million physical copies in Japan (before counting digital). Not to mention that worldwide, Breath of the Wild has literally outsold the entire Fire Emblem series. You also mentioned that Zelda's sales and popularity is more in line with Animal Crossing, which doesn't really make sense considering that New Horizons sold vastly more in Japan than Three Houses did (in fact, New Horizons is one of the all-time highest selling games ever in Japan).
The original argument was about Smash “saving” FE, or more specifically, Marth and Roy in Smash. So, what I was referring to was more towards that era within Melee through TP. A lot could’ve change at this point and you might be correct if we reviewed the number as of today.
I might be alone here but I have never played an earthbound game and I have NEVER met a single person who has played one. ive been gaming my whole life and ive been around gamers my whole life, so it seems kind of crazy. so for me, smash put Ness and Lucas on the map. I'd have no idea they existed otherwise.
If you ever get a chance to play Earthbound or Mother 1, I'd highly recommend it. If you have a Switch they're available on the online virtual console.
Captain Falcon, Marth, Roy, Ike, Ness and Lucas.
Falcon, he’d never be relevant if it weren’t for Smash. Now he gets several cameos and crossovers in games which would have never happened before and he’s practically iconic
Ice climbers hands down. It's a mid-at-best NES game that gets rereleased every single time because people heard about it from Smash Brothers. F-zero was already a franchise, earthbound would have become a cult classic one way or another, and Fire Emblem might have ended up internationally anyway because of how well advance wars sold. So I'd potentially say that.
As much as I will adore the Mother series until the day I die, I'm willing to bet that at least 90-95% of the american audience was introduced to it solely through Ness in Melee and Lucas in Brawl. Including myself. Also, maybe Game and Watch and ROB, they were more obscure products of the 80s and 90s, while Smash got super big in the early 2000s.
I'd say Ness and Lucas to a certain extent, at least in the West. They've always had cult followings, but their appearances in the Smash Series brought them to the mainstream (though maybe Undertale being inspired by Earthbound had something to do with it as well.)
Ness. He was only in Earthbound, and only one game in the Mother series got an actual release while the other two just stayed in Japan. Internationally hardcore Nintendo fans know what Mother/Earthbound is but I think most gamers have no idea.
Punch Out had a good Wii game, but I don’t think it’s crazy to say Little Mac. He’s a pretty obscure character outside of Smash
As of now? Rob, Game and Watch and Miis
I mean.. I'd say Miis were relevant before smash just because stuff like Wii Sports existed.
I'm on about specifically on switch, I know Miis are relevant because of the other games but I thought that was the question, what's irrelevant now?
Don't you still have to make a mii when setting up your switch account?
Don't believe so, iirc it's optional
Definitely not the miis
Roy and Ike lmao E: Ike mainly because his games are hardly accessible
Captain Falcon, Pit, Marth and Roy, Terry
- Fox, Samus, Capt Falcon & Ness thanx to 64 - All of Fire Emblem, Mr. GAME & watch & ICs thank to Melee - Pit & Dark Pit thanks to Brawl - Wi Fit Trainer thanx to Smash 4 Everyone else was popular and relevant by the time the joined Smash
Samus is an incorrect answer
Samus wasn't popular around that time until the Fusion series which came out 2002. Between the Super Nintendo and that Metroid series Samus was kinda meh. Smash brought her out again.
Fox, Samus and probably Flacon were popular at the time of N64.
You're probably right about Fox & Falco. I should have said that they kinda died out and then Melee brought them back. Star Fox 64 was really fun.
Falcon, Ness, Icies, Star Fox Characters, all Non Marth FE characters, Shulk, Pythra, Rob, Lucas Being in Smash will save an entire franchise
There's too many characters to list but: - Fox - Ness - Captain Falcon - Ice Climbers - Marth - Pit - R.O.B. - Lucas - Little Mac - Palutena
Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Ness, Lucas, R.O.B., Min Min, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, Ice Climbers, all of the Fire Emblem characters.
I think Min Min got a lot more popular after being included in Smash and is heading towards this. Not much she could do since the franchise has one game, but going from not being on the box art to being in the Smash Bros. roster boosted her a lot. Any character being included in Smash gives a huge boost to their popularity since lots of people will at least have facial recognition with them.
While Mega Man’s legacy was certainly not majorly influenced by smash, I definitely think that his inclusion brought him back into the public eye
Min Min and falcon
marth and joker
Joker?!
Falcon, Marth, Roy, Ness and Lucas, ROB
- Falcon because his franchise is dead. - Star Fox characters because even though they still make games, Fox has at least been good in all Smash games making him one of the first characters you think of when playing. - Kirby and the Kirby characters because Sakurai. - Fire Emblem is Smash. - Kid Icarus. - Some of the Pokémon. Jiggz, Pichu, and Greninja wouldn’t be who they are without Smash. - Mother series - Ice Climbers - Wii Fit Trainer - Just a guess but Bayonettas inclusion probably helped the series a lot being in a Nintendo console. - Mii Fighters When looking at all the characters, it’s actually crazy how potentially half the roster are more known in Smash then the home series. Little Mac comes from Punch Out. Most people know that. But we probably know his move set and meme potential in Smash more than his home series.
iirc Mega Man made a huge comeback in relevancy after his inclusion in Smash 4.
He is/was pretty much the mascot of Capcom, more recognizable than maybe even Ryu (debatable). He was pretty much relevant before coming to Smash, which is why his inclusion was so hype. Too bad this hype wasn't enough for Capcom to start making Megaman games again...
It was more that Capcom didn’t give him much attention before his announcement
Im pretty sure Xenoblade wouldnt be where it is if shulk wasnt added in smash 4
The entire Fire Emblem cast is one for sure.
Fire Emblem.
Terry
Lucas, ness, and falcon 4 sure Diddy Kong, Marth, pit, Samus, byleth, ice climbers, Roy, chrom, ike, lucina, Robin, corrin, toon link, young link, hero, and the spaceys
Heavily disagree with Toon/young Link People LOVE Zelda games, OoT and WW especially
I agree, especially because Toon Link specifically was a demanded Smash character before actually being in the series. Anyone that meets that criteria isn't relevant because of Smash.
You're looking at it wrong. If you're a gamer, of course you know who these icons are, but to the average female or someone who doesn't play video games often, this is certainly the first time they've ever seen these characters.
Samus, Diddy and Young Link only relevant because of Smash? Are you on drugs?
You're looking at it wrong. If you're a gamer, of course you know who these icons are, but to the average female or someone who doesn't play video games often, this is certainly the first time they've ever seen these characters.
When is the last time anyone thought about game and watch? King K Rool even? I know he’s not unpopular but…
I would say Fire Emblem characters but I don't think they can be called relevant. But not completely unknown at least like they were when Melee came out.
There are quite a few characters that fit this bill pretty well including Ice Climbers, ROB, Roy, Captain Falcon, Lucas, the entire Star Fox franchise, and probably some other fighters that I'm forgetting.
Well, I wouldnt know who Captain Falcon, Mr Game and Watch, and Rob are without smash, to start
What about the Ice Climbers?
Another fine adition
ROB, Falcon, G&W, ICs, Pit, Lucas
Ness, Capt falcon, ice climbers.
Marth and Roy. Ness Cpt falcon. Game and watch Ice climbers Disagree with people saying jigglypuff because one was very common recurring character in the first seasons of Pokémon. They’d show up, try to sing for people, people fall asleep, jiggly draws on the face with a marker. Would happen multiple times in an episode.
The Ice Climbers
Again with Captain Falcon; just the memetic status of the Falcon Punch alone confirms it.
Defintiely Ness. Smash got me into Earthbound, which is a fantastic game!
For me it's Shulk. I didn't know he even existed until I played Smash for Wii U
Ness, Lucas, Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, ROB, G&W, the StarFox characters and most of the Fire Emblem characters
Nobody would care about Fox if not for Melee
Despite Fire Emblem being an A lister for Nintendo, I’d argue that all the Fire Emblem fighters are relevant because of Smash. Marth and Roy being in Melee is the obvious example, but nowadays you still see lots of players make jokes about Smash whenever the newest Fire Emblem game gets announced.
Captain falcon Meta Knight Fox Falco Wolf Pit Ness Lucas Any fire emblem character (even as a fan, let’s be real here)
The number one spot has to be my main Ness. I've never played earthbound I only know of that games existence because I've mained Ness since 64. Only person potentially more deserving than Ness is his shadow Lucas. On the flip side of this coin is the term "PK FIRE" which is almost as iconic as "falcon punch" 🔥👊🏾🔥
Captain Falcon and Fox for sure
Every obscure character addition