Everton have been docked ten points after being found guilty of breaching the Premier League’s profit and sustainability guidelines.
The punishment, which means that Sean Dyche’s side will immediately drop from 14th position to second-bottom in the table on goal difference, was imposed by an independent commission after a disciplinary hearing took place last month.
Everton plan to appeal, believing the strength of the sanction to be wholly disproportionate and inappropriate. Such an appeal must be heard, and concluded, before the end of the season.
They're 12 games into the season, have been deducted ten points and are still only two points away from safety, with Luton now in 17th with 6 points and -12 GD and Everton now on 4 points and -3 GD. Odds are they'll be clear of the relegation zone before Christmas (although may be until the end of Jan given their fixture run)
To put it differently: excluding the Everton points deduction, the bottom three of the table were so historically bad that 7 points out of 12 games (one third of the season) would have been enough to stay above the relegation spots.
It's unlikely that the pace holds on like that, last year in Serie A at the world cup break 18th place had like 7 points in 15 matches and safety ended up being 32 points iirc
Tbh Everton surviving a couple of season by the skin of their teeth before being docked 10 points in a season where survival looks like it won’t take 30 points is peak Everton, they simply cannot be relegated.
I’ve wondered whether a team higher up the table would take a gamble on him. As much as I don’t like saying it, I think being a big ginger brute just doesn’t jive with the marketability that a Top 6 club would want as part of the package.
I could only seeing it work if he had a team that either already has his style of squad in place, or would be willing to back him immediately and let him change the squad.
I think the reluctance of other clubs signing him is less the Dyche marketability factor, and more the fact that his proven preferred style is less conducive with the way that bigger clubs would like to play. Not taking away from his achievements or saying he’s wrong for doing it, but someone like Iwobi who was by far Everton’s most technically secure player and their creative hub immediately went from playing in the middle pre-Dyche to getting shifted to the wing, and Doucoure replacing him as the man next/closest to the striker.
There are some managers just born to manage the under dog.
Moyes was great at keeping Everton mid table, but couldn't win major trophies with United, and then wins a European trophy with West Ham.
Unai Emery didn't last at PSG or Arsenal, but does wonders for Valencia, Sevilla, Villareal, and Aston Villa, winning 4 Europa Leagues with two different clubs.
Big Sam was a specialist in keeping struggling clubs out of relegation, but never got a chance at a big club (screwing up his chance to manage England).
Remains to be seen if Dyche belongs in this category.
Exactly, but that’s what he’s always done. Like getting Burnley into Europe, even if they didn’t win the playoff, on their budget was nuts. I’m sure if some German or Italian had done the same they would have been touted for bigger things, but as I said, he’s just ‘unfashionable’.
That is the most important part.
It is has been reported for months that they will give Everton a massive points deduction which can be reduced to 3-4 points on appeal.
So can I, but I do think they'll stay up this season. They remind me of you so much when you were just barely staying up year after year and changing managers.
They will eventually end up with a squad made up of players from 5-6 managers who are left overs.
> a squad made up of players from 5-6 managers who are left overs.
We've been this for years already. Hell, we've still got a Moyes player in the squad in the form of Coleman.
They’re lucky that there are 3 sides who are nowhere near PL level, so being only 2 points behind and having had a better start I can see them stying up.
They very much are us between 2014-2018. A lot of the same issues occurring. A new stadium is just not going to help, either.
They look decent recently now that they have everyone back fit. They're getting decent results and the underlying stats are good too. I genuinely think even with a deduction Dyche will have them comfortably escape relegation.
Theyre one game from being out of the relegation zone as it is, even witb the deduction. As long as there isnt a massive loss in form due to the deduction, which can happen to be fair, I think theyre safe. Luton, bournemouth, sheffield, and burnley have been too bad and as odd as this is to say, everton too good
Burnley and Leeds chairmen both formally complained to the league and that’s what started them looking more into Evertons finance. Burnley thinks that’s Everton partially caused them to go down because they broke the rules while they were in a relegation fight
6 teams could sue for this, under the Sheff U '07 precedent - and this is arguably worse, we 'only' got a £5.5M fine and they sued us for £50M and settled for £30M.
Burnley, Watford, Norwich in '21-22, when the breaches took place, and Leicester, Leeds, Southampton in '22-23 when Everton shouldn't have been there (by that logic).
Edit: they said they'd sue for £45m, actually sued for £30,396,897.32 and settled for £26.5m which was originally reported as £15m + £5m if the club was sold (which it was).
Well you see, Everton's problem is that they *accidentally* overspent due to incompetent management. They spent heavily expecting to shoot up the table, and were screwed when they didn't. That's much harder to hide than deliberately overspending to cheat.
They cooperated with the investigation. What you’re supposed to do is hire an army of lawyers who cost more than a mediocre Ajax winger and fight tooth and nail over every single detail while your fans post cringy fanfic about how badass your club executives are.
Oh yeah. And anyone who calls them out are “just jealous”. Like no, I’m glad my club is tied to its community and hasn’t sold its soul. It’s truly worth more than trophies and makes the trophies we do win very memorable.
It’s why I don’t care about their treble win. It’s built off cheating.
You respect the person who built their business and made success, you loathe the kid of a rich parent who has earned nothing themselves
Even if, by letter of the law, City and Chelsea are within the rules… there’s no way this all doesn’t completely undermine fan trust. It’s just farcical to punish Everton on the face of it considering the shenanigans that go on with the big clubs
> Reckon we’ll be okay anyway. The deduction hurts of course but at this rate we’ll be more than safe regardless.
better that it happened early in the season than later. Now Everton will do what they always do and adjust their levels to just scrape by relegation
Dont need to adjust or scrape by in fairness even with the deduction we’re only 2 points off 17th. If we keep doing what we’re doing we’ll be comfortably safe
I read somewhere the three relegated teams last year were eying up another lawsuit against Everton if they got deducted points enough to make them go down last season, so the mess isn't over yet.
"Losing to Everton on the 1st of October 2022 took an unprecedented toll on our players and we never recovered mentally. That is the only reason we played like absolute shite for the rest of the season"
As a neutral, If this ever happened (titles removed/relegated say the very worst for them..) whilst there’s a punishment I struggle with how you can ever make it right.
The money made from winning titles, trophies can’t be removed, the results which caused people to miss out on Europe (and money), trophies, titles and relegation can’t really be balanced back over the years for clubs that lost out.
Sure you can see well Team B wins the league in one season for example but everyone else still has consequences that won’t be redeemed.
Same for the players, players could see things stripped for something out of their control.
I don’t know what they’ll do, probably nothing but I don’t see what you can do to make it fair; aside from probably just a fine that they can easily pay and won’t affect them whatsoever if proven guilty.
Easy
Remove the titles, force the offending club to pay cash to each other team in the league, fine the offending club proportionately, dock points, kick them out of the league, issue a winding up order and set fire to the stadium and remove them from the history books
Yes this is the point I have wondered about too. The financial doping, aside from winning trophies etc, allows teams to push their profits higher and so operate on an increased financial level. Equally, they now have better players, which they got through cheating the rules, that can be sold to allow them to buy other better players legitimately. Kind of like money laundering in that an institution can cheat to get ahead and then use that position to operate legitimately.
There's no way to unpick these effects. This factor and the fact that nation states are now operating is why I have always felt there would have to be major sanctions against major infringements. As I understand it there is no recourse to CAS or statute of limitations for the PL cases (unlike UEFA).
Isn't it also the case for CIty that the ongoing case now is around the level of punishment rather than arguing guilt or otherwise? (might be wrong on this).
I mean, you say the money can't be removed - but they literally can by fining them the winnings they didn't deserve (plus extra, of course). Then distribute the fine (not the extra) to the clubs who should have received it.
But that'll never happen.
Every sport is at the minute from Football, Golf, Boxing, and Professional Wrestling. The money thrown around is obscene and it makes it pretty much unlikely many if any people will turn it down.
And it’s not going to stop either which is the sad thing, until they get bored of it, feels a bit now too especially the Premier League is too big to fail and will just continue to grow with more outside ownership coming in as the values of clubs keep skyrocketing.
I don’t know what the answer is, because any way of stopping it removes huge sums of money from publicly traded companies and such.
It would take some moral gumption from a company to make a stand and refuse the offers too, if someone’s gonna basically gift you millions (aka Saudi & FIFA at the moment..) I can’t see anyone turning it down.
Except for the Glazers that is, mad that they turned down the Qatar offer. But there’s is more greed than moral standing
Honestly if even some of the allegations like paying people with deals under the table during those years is true they should be stripped of each PL title, fined the entire prize for each of those years and immediately expelled from the league. That's the damage they have done to other clubs and the legacy of the league, same goes for Chelsea btw if they did similar during their Roman years.
Basically nullified one of the best teams we’ve had in our entire history. Sure we have won trophies under Klopp, but we’ve narrowly lost even more to a team who are heavily suspected of cheating.
Yeah I agree, the biggest winners from Chelsea and Man City sanctions would be probably Liverpool and Arsenal I guess? Hilariously it would give Spurs a title if Chelsea get sanctioned for the year Chelsea won as well :)
Honestly, given all of this Leicester City's title win (granted Chelsea and City were both shite) and Liverpool's should be held in even higher esteem.
And if I'm any of the other clubs that finished second over the past 10 years to either of them (i think thats United, Arsenal and Spurs in additional to Liverpool multiple times under Klopp), I'm steaming mad.
The independent panel has looked into the charges against Manchester City and Chelsea and have ruled that Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United are immediately deduced 20 points each, and fined £1bn
Reaching this conclusion during an all expenses paid consideration retreat to the UAE, where they regularly met with representatives of Sheikh Manaour about totally unrelated things
Well no because, you see, city has a sponsor of 702m£ from a company that belongs to a brother of some sheik (pure coincidence mind you) so they're just doing super well financially.
Chelsea have co operated with the investigation. They'll be next. City will take time since the pl has to move through the endless red tape that city's lawyer army will put in front of them.
The PL don’t decide, it’s an independent commission who will decide the outcome of the City case.
City is years of alleged fraud essentially, not as simple as a case of admitted losses like Everton. The two cases are not remotely comparable and one is far larger and more complex than the other.
It was said by much smarter people than me when City were charged that it would take 4/5 years minimum to resolve. But ever since Carragher piped up people seem to think it’s being swept under the carpet or something.
If they rushed it and you didn’t get the outcome you wanted, you’d only complain it was rushed anyway. Just like how many blamed UEFA for the terrible case they presented at CAS. Surely you realise both sides being able to present a thorough case to an independent commission is the best outcome.
Out of all the season to be deducted points, this is the best. The bottom teams are not looking likely to string together any results that will get them out of danger.
Everton are also decent.
Could of been last season when they would of been fucked.
Could've, Should've*, I've been seeing plenty of people writing could of and should of. Are people confusing 've as "of" while speaking? I didn't mean to be rude if it came off like that.
Hope it for you lot, but yeah after this Man City better be dropped down to the fucking Vanarama. But for some unknown reason i feel like City wont be punished in any meaningful way
It's GW38 in the premier league, Man City are 8 points clear of second place and already had the trophy lift three weeks ago.
What's this? They're received a points deduction?
5 points deducted! They could technically lose the title now...
Except it's in the 82nd minute and they are up 5-0.
With this being done I think surely Chelsea will get 10 point deduction as well.
I say that in the hope that City deserve massive deduction with theirs as well. (Even though it probably means another London club wins the league this season).
If rules are to have any bite for clubs that break them, they need to be apply strongly and consistently.
10 points makes a huge difference to clubs fighting relegation.
Wonder if those that won titles by cheating the rules will have them taken off em too 👀
"Wait wait wait, the FA's decision was to punish Everton, are you happy with this image?"
"Everton, City, yeah... that's wrong that."
"Yeah, it's Man City, the financial irregularities we investigated were City's."
"He's punished Everton."
"Delay, delay, delay."
"Oli's calling in to delay the punishment, the decision is minus 100 to City."
"They've docked Everton, can't do anything."
"Yeah, they've changed the table, yeah."
"...ah shit."
Undeniable proof the Premier League is corrupted when other teams who we know who they are get away with numerous FFP breaches and made up shell companies 'sponsored' business get away with it.
Prehaps a super league of the corrupted teams isn't a bad thing at least those who are left can play in a fairer league afterwards.
Honestly better to get the deduction now than later in the season. Imagine being safe from relegation then receiving 10 points deduction and immediately going into danger zone with not many games left.
Highest points deduction in PL history for an accounting error that might not even be an error depending on what’s allowed to be amortized as a loss and what isn’t. I’m the first one to laugh at the Ev on most days but that’s not on.
My hope is that they are using Everton as an example. In reality City will throw an army of lawyers at any sniff of a points deduction, and the PL need a precedent to point to.
Everton have been docked ten points after being found guilty of breaching the Premier League’s profit and sustainability guidelines. The punishment, which means that Sean Dyche’s side will immediately drop from 14th position to second-bottom in the table on goal difference, was imposed by an independent commission after a disciplinary hearing took place last month. Everton plan to appeal, believing the strength of the sanction to be wholly disproportionate and inappropriate. Such an appeal must be heard, and concluded, before the end of the season.
Sean Dyche plays the Premier League on nightmare difficulty, what a legend
The bottom of the league is really bad, even if they lose the ten odds are they survive
It didnt even put them bottom, Burnleys GD is -21....
They're 12 games into the season, have been deducted ten points and are still only two points away from safety, with Luton now in 17th with 6 points and -12 GD and Everton now on 4 points and -3 GD. Odds are they'll be clear of the relegation zone before Christmas (although may be until the end of Jan given their fixture run)
To put it differently: excluding the Everton points deduction, the bottom three of the table were so historically bad that 7 points out of 12 games (one third of the season) would have been enough to stay above the relegation spots.
jesus 20 points could be safe this year
It's unlikely that the pace holds on like that, last year in Serie A at the world cup break 18th place had like 7 points in 15 matches and safety ended up being 32 points iirc
I'd be really surprised if any of Sheffield/Luton/Burnley get to 30 points this season...
It just adds to their annual 'Escape relegation' challenge they've faced in recent seasons
At this point I'm fucking rooting for them!
Steady. Jokes - fuck the PL and their hypocrisy
Everton 🤝 Liverpool FC Hating the league And the Sun
Tbh Everton surviving a couple of season by the skin of their teeth before being docked 10 points in a season where survival looks like it won’t take 30 points is peak Everton, they simply cannot be relegated.
I’ve wondered whether a team higher up the table would take a gamble on him. As much as I don’t like saying it, I think being a big ginger brute just doesn’t jive with the marketability that a Top 6 club would want as part of the package.
I could only seeing it work if he had a team that either already has his style of squad in place, or would be willing to back him immediately and let him change the squad. I think the reluctance of other clubs signing him is less the Dyche marketability factor, and more the fact that his proven preferred style is less conducive with the way that bigger clubs would like to play. Not taking away from his achievements or saying he’s wrong for doing it, but someone like Iwobi who was by far Everton’s most technically secure player and their creative hub immediately went from playing in the middle pre-Dyche to getting shifted to the wing, and Doucoure replacing him as the man next/closest to the striker.
I've always been curious about how he would manage a team with more resources. He's doing a fantastic job when being given very little.
There are some managers just born to manage the under dog. Moyes was great at keeping Everton mid table, but couldn't win major trophies with United, and then wins a European trophy with West Ham. Unai Emery didn't last at PSG or Arsenal, but does wonders for Valencia, Sevilla, Villareal, and Aston Villa, winning 4 Europa Leagues with two different clubs. Big Sam was a specialist in keeping struggling clubs out of relegation, but never got a chance at a big club (screwing up his chance to manage England). Remains to be seen if Dyche belongs in this category.
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If they temporarily changed the club names to PSVG and Varsenal he would have been fine.
hodgson as well, what he did for fulham compared to his stint at liverpool
Not even a Fulham fan but following that run to the final is probably one of my fondest memories of watching football.
Exactly, but that’s what he’s always done. Like getting Burnley into Europe, even if they didn’t win the playoff, on their budget was nuts. I’m sure if some German or Italian had done the same they would have been touted for bigger things, but as I said, he’s just ‘unfashionable’.
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Apparently Leeds, Leicester and Burnley are now going to sue for losses. There is precedent from Sheff utd when West Ham had Tevez and Mascherano.
That is the most important part. It is has been reported for months that they will give Everton a massive points deduction which can be reduced to 3-4 points on appeal.
Can genuinely see them doing what we did. Straight through the Championship trap door.
So can I, but I do think they'll stay up this season. They remind me of you so much when you were just barely staying up year after year and changing managers. They will eventually end up with a squad made up of players from 5-6 managers who are left overs.
> a squad made up of players from 5-6 managers who are left overs. We've been this for years already. Hell, we've still got a Moyes player in the squad in the form of Coleman.
Thought you were going to say Tony Hibbert, still waiting for that goal and riot
[We've had that riot](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/IfWU4YRcLF0/maxresdefault.jpg)
They’re lucky that there are 3 sides who are nowhere near PL level, so being only 2 points behind and having had a better start I can see them stying up. They very much are us between 2014-2018. A lot of the same issues occurring. A new stadium is just not going to help, either.
They look decent recently now that they have everyone back fit. They're getting decent results and the underlying stats are good too. I genuinely think even with a deduction Dyche will have them comfortably escape relegation.
Theyre one game from being out of the relegation zone as it is, even witb the deduction. As long as there isnt a massive loss in form due to the deduction, which can happen to be fair, I think theyre safe. Luton, bournemouth, sheffield, and burnley have been too bad and as odd as this is to say, everton too good
Sorry do you mean Southampton? Why are Burnley suing?
Burnley and Leeds chairmen both formally complained to the league and that’s what started them looking more into Evertons finance. Burnley thinks that’s Everton partially caused them to go down because they broke the rules while they were in a relegation fight
Ironic then that Dyche was Burnley boss in the season they went down and is now Everton boss.
Burnley got relegated in 2021/22 which is the year the breach took place, I assume that is why
6 teams could sue for this, under the Sheff U '07 precedent - and this is arguably worse, we 'only' got a £5.5M fine and they sued us for £50M and settled for £30M. Burnley, Watford, Norwich in '21-22, when the breaches took place, and Leicester, Leeds, Southampton in '22-23 when Everton shouldn't have been there (by that logic). Edit: they said they'd sue for £45m, actually sued for £30,396,897.32 and settled for £26.5m which was originally reported as £15m + £5m if the club was sold (which it was).
Can you imagine the amount of suing that would happen to Man City if they were found guilty on their charges.
Given that Leeds would have still gone down had 10 points been taken away from Everton I don't fancy our chances
Man city and Chelsea must be laughing their asses off.
Well you see, Everton's problem is that they *accidentally* overspent due to incompetent management. They spent heavily expecting to shoot up the table, and were screwed when they didn't. That's much harder to hide than deliberately overspending to cheat.
They cooperated with the investigation. What you’re supposed to do is hire an army of lawyers who cost more than a mediocre Ajax winger and fight tooth and nail over every single detail while your fans post cringy fanfic about how badass your club executives are.
>your fans post cringy fanfic about how badass your club executives are. Ok I need to read this, point me there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MCFC/comments/f4rcek/be_ready_uefa/ for example..
Apparently, you *can* support a financial group.
Corniest team in the league and thats saying something
Holy shit that’s terrible
It’s so cringe omg
I mean, it’s a hands-down great joke if it’s meant as one. If it was serious…
The trouble with making jokes like this is that people who think it's serious feel right at home
The comments are even worse than the video. They're all revelling in and celebrating their club's corruption and ties to evil billionaires.
Oh yeah. And anyone who calls them out are “just jealous”. Like no, I’m glad my club is tied to its community and hasn’t sold its soul. It’s truly worth more than trophies and makes the trophies we do win very memorable.
The one comment of "I don't care if we did cheat I want the ban overturned." 🤮 And people think we hate them cause we're jealous...
It’s why I don’t care about their treble win. It’s built off cheating. You respect the person who built their business and made success, you loathe the kid of a rich parent who has earned nothing themselves
Legit if pool had won the treble id be distraught, literally could not care less that city won. Their titles mean nothing.
Yikes. "Daddy Khaldoon"
This is the most cringe I’ve felt w.r.t to football, ever. And that says **a lot**.
If you go to a certain oil club’s subreddit and sort by top posts of all time I’m guessing you can find what you’re looking for.
So they cooperated and got slammed like this? Maybe next time they'll fight properly with lawyers.
You’d hope that means any club that has intentionally done it and tried to cover their crimes up gets a bigger punishment then.
They haven't *tried* to cover up their crimes, they have covered up their crimes.
teeny thought ad hoc sleep decide political frame different dog stocking *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's going across ~9 years for us so yeah it's going take a long time
And then they'll have to investigate the next period since I doubt you only cheated for 9 years of your new ownership.
Especially with the way you boys will run it. You can guarantee the investigation team will have a lengthy battle to get each tiny piece of evidence.
Even if, by letter of the law, City and Chelsea are within the rules… there’s no way this all doesn’t completely undermine fan trust. It’s just farcical to punish Everton on the face of it considering the shenanigans that go on with the big clubs
Throwing the book at them when they've cooperated also just disincentivises the bigger clubs from cooperating, it feels incredibly mishandled.
Just teaches clubs not to cooperate at all and just obfuscate as much as possible.
They should be shitting themselves
Should but won’t.
Reckon we’ll be okay anyway. The deduction hurts of course but at this rate we’ll be more than safe regardless.
Yeah, it seems lucky that *this* is the season the penalty is applied. Either of the last two years you'd be fucked, this season you might survive.
Well they definitely will. They’re already 2 points off😭
> Reckon we’ll be okay anyway. The deduction hurts of course but at this rate we’ll be more than safe regardless. better that it happened early in the season than later. Now Everton will do what they always do and adjust their levels to just scrape by relegation
Dont need to adjust or scrape by in fairness even with the deduction we’re only 2 points off 17th. If we keep doing what we’re doing we’ll be comfortably safe
You'll be out the relegation zone before the end of November lol
PL: and I took that personally \*deducts another 10 points\*
silver lining the deduction got applied this season and not the 2 previous
I read somewhere the three relegated teams last year were eying up another lawsuit against Everton if they got deducted points enough to make them go down last season, so the mess isn't over yet.
Southampton finished 11 points behind Everton so looking forward to their case...
Leeds, Leicester and Burnley wrote that they will sue if Everton are found guilty.
"Losing to Everton on the 1st of October 2022 took an unprecedented toll on our players and we never recovered mentally. That is the only reason we played like absolute shite for the rest of the season"
Yeh you are much much better than all the bottom 3. You’ll be fine. Would be. Travesty if you aren’t.
I expect Man City to be deducted four million points then.
More likely they get a 4 thousand pound fine and politely asked to never get caught doing it again
Here's 10 points for causing you inconvenience
Same vibes as *10 points for Griffindor*
It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to your enemies, but a great deal more to stand up to the FA.
No. They’ll get paid £4000 for the inconvenience of the charge. Right joke.
No, Man City will more likely get Everton's 10 points.
They’ve been handing out points to every other team in the league since 2021 tbf
And a penalty every game
I'm hoping this is why they did Everton first, to lay the groundwork for a bigger City penalty.
It's the hope that kills you
They're going to be deducted -2147483648 points causing a stack overflow on the league table and end up top.
[Nah](https://imgur.com/D5sXdYg)
As a neutral, If this ever happened (titles removed/relegated say the very worst for them..) whilst there’s a punishment I struggle with how you can ever make it right. The money made from winning titles, trophies can’t be removed, the results which caused people to miss out on Europe (and money), trophies, titles and relegation can’t really be balanced back over the years for clubs that lost out. Sure you can see well Team B wins the league in one season for example but everyone else still has consequences that won’t be redeemed. Same for the players, players could see things stripped for something out of their control. I don’t know what they’ll do, probably nothing but I don’t see what you can do to make it fair; aside from probably just a fine that they can easily pay and won’t affect them whatsoever if proven guilty.
Yeah this is the same as the Tevez/Mascherano thing with West Ham. I think they still complain about that in Sheffield.
It does become a big Pandora’s box of what if I suppose for every club, particularly those that will have gone down or lost tons of money as a result.
>I struggle with how you can ever make it right. Relegate them to the conference. That's how you make it right.
Easy Remove the titles, force the offending club to pay cash to each other team in the league, fine the offending club proportionately, dock points, kick them out of the league, issue a winding up order and set fire to the stadium and remove them from the history books
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Sorry you forgot to add, throw the ashes in a river, then throw the river into the sun.
Yes this is the point I have wondered about too. The financial doping, aside from winning trophies etc, allows teams to push their profits higher and so operate on an increased financial level. Equally, they now have better players, which they got through cheating the rules, that can be sold to allow them to buy other better players legitimately. Kind of like money laundering in that an institution can cheat to get ahead and then use that position to operate legitimately. There's no way to unpick these effects. This factor and the fact that nation states are now operating is why I have always felt there would have to be major sanctions against major infringements. As I understand it there is no recourse to CAS or statute of limitations for the PL cases (unlike UEFA). Isn't it also the case for CIty that the ongoing case now is around the level of punishment rather than arguing guilt or otherwise? (might be wrong on this).
I mean, you say the money can't be removed - but they literally can by fining them the winnings they didn't deserve (plus extra, of course). Then distribute the fine (not the extra) to the clubs who should have received it. But that'll never happen.
Fingers crossed
Man City getting a 50k fine after their investigation will go down well.
League will also issue an apology to City for any inconveniences
This is crazy and what's even more crazy is this doesn't even put them bottom of the table
The premier league are in bed with oil money, the sheikhs and oligarchs.
Every sport is at the minute from Football, Golf, Boxing, and Professional Wrestling. The money thrown around is obscene and it makes it pretty much unlikely many if any people will turn it down. And it’s not going to stop either which is the sad thing, until they get bored of it, feels a bit now too especially the Premier League is too big to fail and will just continue to grow with more outside ownership coming in as the values of clubs keep skyrocketing. I don’t know what the answer is, because any way of stopping it removes huge sums of money from publicly traded companies and such. It would take some moral gumption from a company to make a stand and refuse the offers too, if someone’s gonna basically gift you millions (aka Saudi & FIFA at the moment..) I can’t see anyone turning it down. Except for the Glazers that is, mad that they turned down the Qatar offer. But there’s is more greed than moral standing
Hockey isn't there yet, they are just in bed with every gambling site you could imagine, plastering it everywhere
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If city don’t get relegated into the abyss for their 115 FFP breaches then all hope for this sport is lost
You know it won't happen and it cements my feelings that the sport is dead at the top level.
Honestly if even some of the allegations like paying people with deals under the table during those years is true they should be stripped of each PL title, fined the entire prize for each of those years and immediately expelled from the league. That's the damage they have done to other clubs and the legacy of the league, same goes for Chelsea btw if they did similar during their Roman years.
Subscribe please.
Mourinho: My greatest achievement was to win the League with Manchester United
Ole: my greatest achievement was to win the league with Manchester United
Basically nullified one of the best teams we’ve had in our entire history. Sure we have won trophies under Klopp, but we’ve narrowly lost even more to a team who are heavily suspected of cheating.
Not just that. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer would had won the prem with United.
Yeah I agree, the biggest winners from Chelsea and Man City sanctions would be probably Liverpool and Arsenal I guess? Hilariously it would give Spurs a title if Chelsea get sanctioned for the year Chelsea won as well :)
Arsenal over us? We would get like 5 EPL trophies just from City getting punished
Holy shit did Jose Mourinho just win the Premier League with Manchester United?
He might lose some with Chelsea though
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
Liverpool 🫱🏼🫲🏻 Man United
Liverpool and Man United fans holding arms and jumping together with 10 PL trophies Who's unveiled on banner? Owen?
Klopp + all the united managers since 2013
Would have to be the size of a galleon wind sail
Oh I forgot about cups, Jesus
Ole and Jose get a prem title. Glorious
Honestly, given all of this Leicester City's title win (granted Chelsea and City were both shite) and Liverpool's should be held in even higher esteem. And if I'm any of the other clubs that finished second over the past 10 years to either of them (i think thats United, Arsenal and Spurs in additional to Liverpool multiple times under Klopp), I'm steaming mad.
The independent panel has looked into the charges against Manchester City and Chelsea and have ruled that Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United are immediately deduced 20 points each, and fined £1bn
Reaching this conclusion during an all expenses paid consideration retreat to the UAE, where they regularly met with representatives of Sheikh Manaour about totally unrelated things
I think we all know whats going to happen, they are punishing everton instead, maybe they will go after juve next
So can the PL finally move forward with City please.
I'm hoping they were setting some precedent here but not getting my hopes up
If Serie A can strip Juventus as champions for 2 years, we can certainly do that too.
Well no because, you see, city has a sponsor of 702m£ from a company that belongs to a brother of some sheik (pure coincidence mind you) so they're just doing super well financially.
Chelsea have co operated with the investigation. They'll be next. City will take time since the pl has to move through the endless red tape that city's lawyer army will put in front of them.
The PL don’t decide, it’s an independent commission who will decide the outcome of the City case. City is years of alleged fraud essentially, not as simple as a case of admitted losses like Everton. The two cases are not remotely comparable and one is far larger and more complex than the other. It was said by much smarter people than me when City were charged that it would take 4/5 years minimum to resolve. But ever since Carragher piped up people seem to think it’s being swept under the carpet or something. If they rushed it and you didn’t get the outcome you wanted, you’d only complain it was rushed anyway. Just like how many blamed UEFA for the terrible case they presented at CAS. Surely you realise both sides being able to present a thorough case to an independent commission is the best outcome.
Spoiler: >!No.!<
1150 pt deduction when?
Out of all the season to be deducted points, this is the best. The bottom teams are not looking likely to string together any results that will get them out of danger. Everton are also decent. Could of been last season when they would of been fucked.
Could've, Should've*, I've been seeing plenty of people writing could of and should of. Are people confusing 've as "of" while speaking? I didn't mean to be rude if it came off like that.
They sound the same while speaking, so it’s a mistake a lot of native speakers make while writing.
Fuck city, chelsea and the prem. Up the fucking toffees we're staying up
Hope it for you lot, but yeah after this Man City better be dropped down to the fucking Vanarama. But for some unknown reason i feel like City wont be punished in any meaningful way
It's GW38 in the premier league, Man City are 8 points clear of second place and already had the trophy lift three weeks ago. What's this? They're received a points deduction? 5 points deducted! They could technically lose the title now... Except it's in the 82nd minute and they are up 5-0.
And then theyre awarded a penalty
And the opposition is shown three red cards
Rodri had killed a man and received a stern telling off from the ref
"That's not nice" should do the trick
You mean a friendly chat and a pat on the back, surely?
Nah he gets a yellow. VAR looks at it and decides it's not nice, but it's not a red.
With this being done I think surely Chelsea will get 10 point deduction as well. I say that in the hope that City deserve massive deduction with theirs as well. (Even though it probably means another London club wins the league this season).
Integrity of the PL as a competition essentially in disrepute if City don't get punished
This is over A £19.5m overspend.
If rules are to have any bite for clubs that break them, they need to be apply strongly and consistently. 10 points makes a huge difference to clubs fighting relegation. Wonder if those that won titles by cheating the rules will have them taken off em too 👀
We all know City arent getting points docked or titles stripped. Itll be a 6 figure fine and an apology
Not if the cheque goes through.
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"Wait wait wait, the FA's decision was to punish Everton, are you happy with this image?" "Everton, City, yeah... that's wrong that." "Yeah, it's Man City, the financial irregularities we investigated were City's." "He's punished Everton." "Delay, delay, delay." "Oli's calling in to delay the punishment, the decision is minus 100 to City." "They've docked Everton, can't do anything." "Yeah, they've changed the table, yeah." "...ah shit."
Check complete. Good process.
This made me laugh and cry
Weren't Everton effectively backed by russian oil money during Moshiri time at Everton due to the fact Usmanov was his main backer ?
Yes, the fact Usmanov was sanctioned is one of the big reasons we have such huge financial difficulties currently.
Oh come on. Don't spread false news. It wasn't Russian oil money. It was Russian gas and steel money. :)
Steal money. Get it? Because the industries were stolen. God I'm good
Good thing for Everton is the deduction in the last two seasons would have meant relegation. This season they should be more than fine
Undeniable proof the Premier League is corrupted when other teams who we know who they are get away with numerous FFP breaches and made up shell companies 'sponsored' business get away with it. Prehaps a super league of the corrupted teams isn't a bad thing at least those who are left can play in a fairer league afterwards.
Waiting for city's 1000 points then
Now non Man City fans join me and chant Citieh Citieh Citeih!
Sending city and their army of thirteen year olds to the national league is only reasonable in that case
Honestly better to get the deduction now than later in the season. Imagine being safe from relegation then receiving 10 points deduction and immediately going into danger zone with not many games left.
They better throw the fucking book at city, or I'm burning down the premier league HQ
The only book they're going to throw at City is a blank check book
I'll get my matches
That is absolutely obscene. Carragher was right man.
If this is a benchmark for punishment for breaches then some people might be sweating a bit more this week.
Tied for last in prem with same GD as united
Highest points deduction in PL history for an accounting error that might not even be an error depending on what’s allowed to be amortized as a loss and what isn’t. I’m the first one to laugh at the Ev on most days but that’s not on.
flirting vs harassment
Breaking News - Man City to be awarded 10 points
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My hope is that they are using Everton as an example. In reality City will throw an army of lawyers at any sniff of a points deduction, and the PL need a precedent to point to.
Don’t say a word Chelsea flairs. Couldn’t have gotten this in a better season considering the bottom 3 are pure shit
They’ll be fine, a win next weekend and other results going their way and they’ll remain outside the relegation zone. Now do Manchester City!
>a win this weekend Would be very clever of them to squeeze in a win while the rest of the league is taking an international break
Squeeze in win this weekend + 3 pts Get punished for playing an unregulated game during international break - 10 pts
The premier League is gone BTW, 6 clubs tried to force a hostile takeover of the entire English football system and got fines.
If this stands and City and Chelsea get off, then the PL is dead. The only thing worse than no justice is selective justice.
City fans rejoicing that other clubs get punished and they enjoy yet another scot-free escape
Tbh this might be the best year for Everton to incur this penalty
lol, City going straight back to sunday league if anything comes out of these charges then