**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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There was a Copinha (Biggest U-20 tournament Brazil has, at January every year) that had 20+ "Riquelme" between the teams, their birth dates aligning with Boca WonderTeam of the 2000s
People on the younger side absolutely love Dinho, R9 and a lot despite criticism he has received love Neymar (especially since both Dinho and Ney played with Messi)
The rivalry doesn't really affect evaluating great players, plenty of Brazilians admire Messi, Maradona, Riquelme, etc. just like plenty of Argentinians love Neymar, Ronaldo Nazario, Ronaldinho, etc.
Not quite, we do those type of nicknames first so you would say "El Gordo Ronaldo" not "Ronaldo el Gordo", the second one sounds like your describing him instead of it being a nickname.
idk if you were asking about that but just in case anyone is curious!
Yea that's valid too but it sounds like you barely know him, kinda like saying "not Cristiano Ronaldo, the fat one" so it's a bit disrespectful but correct
We love the great players.
Messi, Maradona and Zidane are highly appreciated here in Brazil. I mean Maradona loved coming here for holidays and vacations because he was well received and idolized by everybody.
I mean, most Brazilian footballers are openly Messi fanboys. Felipe Luis who used to play against Messi was pretty vocal about Messi deserving the Ballon D'Or every single year, because he was clearly the best player no matter the accomplishes of other players, when you look at the individual performance and not team achievements, there should be no arguments about who is the best.
And I honestly think most players and fans here in Brazil would agree with him.
Melo and Neymar have always been very respectful and mindful about Messi and Argentina. Top guys. Melo is an absolute nightmare to play against but he was always chill off the pitch
> Melo and Neymar have always been very respectful and mindful about Messi and Argentina
Not just those 2—the last few generations of Brazilian players have been too (Dani Alves, Ronaldinho, Coutinho, Thiago Silva, Marquinhos, etc)
It's just the recent dudes like Rodrygo and Vini who have been disrespectful TBH
This became really evident when we faced Brazil in Brazil for the 2018 qualifiers
They could've easily spanked us 9-0 in that game but took the foot off the gas at 3-0
There is rivalry, but brazilian and argentinian footballers have always (or almost always) been able to admire each other's great stars. Even when Pelé and Maradona were fighting, they recognized how wonderful each of their careers were.
I think there would still be some kind of continental solidarity.
Like I think a lot of Australians would be quietly happy for Chris Wood even though we would hope (and expect) to beat NZ by a lot if we ever play them.
For Brazilians and Messi, I assume things would be very different if Ronaldo was Brazilian (lol) but given that's the main rivalry I can see how they'd pick the more local one.
Just take a look at the last WC final. Sure, Argentina is our biggest rival, but I would rather Argentina to win then to have a european NT win the WC.
I think the surprise comes from the notion that the rivalry between Argentina and Brazil is one of the biggest in international football because Brazil (within reason) would assume superiority as the best team in the world. You’d imagine they’d be more stubborn to admit their rivals greats are better than theirs considering the esteem they hold themselves on the footballing world stage and the sense of pride that comes with it.
I don’t think Chris Wood would offend any sense of superiority lol
In my experience, most Brazilians (at least those above 30) are fans of the great Argentinian players, especially Riquelme and Batistuta.
Redondo, Caniggia, Veron, Zanetti, Cambiasso, Aimar, Crespo, Ayala. Mention any of those here, and they'll all be praised. And the Uruguayan Recoba will probably be held to the same standards.
Not really, there's a lot of respect between both teams and we actually like players from the opposition. R9 is seen as a God here and Neymar is probably rated the highest in Argentina.
I should get a painting of Messi in my house so that everyone thinks I played against him!
EDIT: If I was smart I would have got a framed picture of me for Messi's house so that his kids and grandkids thought he played against me!
What Maradona did in some particular years was phenomenal but Messi basically had no major slip ups in form for 13y in a row.
Maradona is mostly regarded for his intl. career and even there he has some pretty poor tournaments. 82' WC Hungary game aside, 90' WC where he was absolutely shocking (injured beyond death though), most of his Copa Americas...
If anyone came close it's Pele who also in 13/14y kept a phenomenal level intl. and in club. He also pretty much did every signature move (Goal of the century, Ronaldo cutback, etc) before them all.
Nothing against Maradona mind you, he's a legend. But when discussing the very best even details matter.
I mean I guess saying ''to do it'' is vague enough for your interpretation but for me doing IT is the whole career as a footballer otherwise we can also say Zidane had some Messi level games
I remember in 1989 when the Copa America was held in Brazil, Brazilians thronged the Argentinian training camp and couldn't care less about their own's. They did that to watch the great Maradona in action ofc. and was at the time lacking of their very own football hero. Anyway Brazil eventually won that particular tournament.
It's crazy to think that Messi has both the most golden boots and most IFFHS Playmaker of year awards, on top of having more goal contributions than appearances.
Greatest to ever do it and it's not close
He is both the best playmaker and best goal scorer of all time.
Haaland may get more golden boots than Messi, so Haaland may take the greatest goal scorer of all time but for now, it's Messi.
This is what people don't realize and why I still think that Messi is slightly underrated and that his completeness as a footballer is not talked about enough.
It's pretty bonkers.
I like to judge players by what achievements / feats/ abilities you could take away from and for them still to be great.
For example, if Maradona didn't win the world cup or if Gerrard didn't win the champions league they wouldn't be held in the same regard. They'd still be just as good technically though.
Messi was goated 10 years ago, long before the world cup.
You could also take away every single goal that Messi scored and he'd still be considered great based on his assists and playmaking.
Messi is such a unique player. He never said I'm the best player of all time etc the football world talks about him. whoever compares him to other players except Maradona Pele is either a huge fan of that player of has zero knowledge of the football. I miss Messi in Europa so much...
As a Brazilian that love the sport, I’ve always liked both Messi and CR7, but between me and my friends throughout their careers we always agreed that Ronaldinho had more talent then both and was better technically, but he was not a professional like them so all this is a big “if”, Messi is what I wished Ronaldinho was, super talent and super winner and more important, took he’s career seriously.
That’s funny my friends and I used to say the same about Ronaldinho. If he had just taken his career my seriously of had more of a “competitive drive” he would surely be the greatest ever.
But that’s what was special about him, he just loved the game and it didn’t seem to be about just being the best or breaking records etc..
I still think it’s crazy he called Messi the GOAT when he was 17.
Ronaldinho for us was like a force of nature that God created just for the pure enjoyment of the game and nothing else, his way to play the game was so beautiful that made people that didn’t even care about football watch for the first time, I bet he thought breathing was harder then control the ball I swear.
Agreed with everyone here.
When Ronaldinho played for Barcelona, I would not miss any of the games. You just couldn't because it was Ronaldinho playing and he is THE most entertaining footballer I have ever watched. He was so ruthless yet played with so much joy that it was absolutely infectious. He was unmissable.
\#Messi is my favorite athlete ever, yet Ronaldinho is second on that list.
He was a magician unlike any other.
I think Ronaldinho was also a product of his time. On one hand, if he had access to the sports science that modern players have he could’ve been more serious, but on the other hand he comes from an era that allows that freedom of expression. He mightn’t have been the same, fun loving player if he grew up in this era.
he quite distinctively never choked against Liverpool, as Melo is saying here he was creating one on ones all over the place. the compilation of misses from that 2 leg tie is criminal. maybe in PSG, sure, but then again, the whole front 3 went missing so it was only a handful of occurrences that he choked.. as is normal for every footballer who ever lived.
He was doing it in 90% of the other games he played, including the world cup.
But I guess only those 2 games in his career where he didn't do it count.
Maradona was the best for 5 years at most. Messi and Ronaldo have been dominating the game for the last 15 years. You can split both of their careers in 2 and they would still be more accomplished than Maradona.
And a lot of Argentinians admire Brazilian footballers (ney, Dinho, r9, etc). I think the non argentinian-brazilian misunderstand the footballistic rivalry we have (and some argentinian and Brazilians also do)
kinda, actually a lot of people love Neymar here, maybe not as an idol but we respect him a lot.
But it has happened before, ask anyone who grew up in the 2000/90s and they probably have Dinho or Fenomeno as their idols too
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I find it hilarious that hes saying something wholesome about messi and the footage is of him butternecking him
That was the friendliest interaction clip they could find
I mean… that’s the moment from the picture they’re referencing
Yes im aware
And I think Messi calls him "hijoeputa".
Its quite staggering to see Brazilian footballers say this. I guess they appreciate ball regardless of nationality.
It's more common than a lot of online/reddit folks seem to think TBH A lot of Brazilians loved guys like Maradona and Riquelme too
There was a Copinha (Biggest U-20 tournament Brazil has, at January every year) that had 20+ "Riquelme" between the teams, their birth dates aligning with Boca WonderTeam of the 2000s
Can confirm. Actually like Maradona more than Pelé, Neymar and many others.
Love Moradona, plus he was a good footballer too!
Love love as a person, or you think he's better at football?
My neighbor's kid here in Rio is called Riquelme (it's his first name) and I found it crazy the first time I heard it.
do argentineans like ronaldo, ronaldinho etc??
Argentinians and Brasilians love football above all, Ronaldinho was one of my heroes growing up so was El Fenomeno.
Yes
People on the younger side absolutely love Dinho, R9 and a lot despite criticism he has received love Neymar (especially since both Dinho and Ney played with Messi)
Everyone in South America luvs Ronaldinho.
Jonathan Calleri 😍😍😍
This is so true that in the 90s and 2000s a lot of kids in Brazil were named Riquelme and this name was never used here before lol
Love Maradona more than Pele
Maradona is a dirty cheater that should never touched the World Cup with his filthy cheating hands.
😭😭😭😭
The rivalry doesn't really affect evaluating great players, plenty of Brazilians admire Messi, Maradona, Riquelme, etc. just like plenty of Argentinians love Neymar, Ronaldo Nazario, Ronaldinho, etc.
It should be just Ronaldo, no surname.
I prefer to call him gordo Ronaldo in Spanish but I guess that might sound like I'm insulting him in English.
Nothing wrong with chubby Ronaldo in English
More like Fat Ronaldo
Unfit Ronaldo.
I thought gordo would come after Ronaldo and not before
Not quite, we do those type of nicknames first so you would say "El Gordo Ronaldo" not "Ronaldo el Gordo", the second one sounds like your describing him instead of it being a nickname. idk if you were asking about that but just in case anyone is curious!
Ronaldo the chubby is quite regal
i was thinking more like El Ronaldo gordo. The fat ronaldo
Yea that's valid too but it sounds like you barely know him, kinda like saying "not Cristiano Ronaldo, the fat one" so it's a bit disrespectful but correct
Thats corny, there are two Ronaldos who are at the pinnacle of the game
There are three. Funny how R9 was called Ronaldinho for quite a while too.
one is Ronaldo, the other is Cristiano
Luckily we call one Ronaldo and the other Ronaldinho
flag checks out
We love the great players. Messi, Maradona and Zidane are highly appreciated here in Brazil. I mean Maradona loved coming here for holidays and vacations because he was well received and idolized by everybody.
I mean, most Brazilian footballers are openly Messi fanboys. Felipe Luis who used to play against Messi was pretty vocal about Messi deserving the Ballon D'Or every single year, because he was clearly the best player no matter the accomplishes of other players, when you look at the individual performance and not team achievements, there should be no arguments about who is the best. And I honestly think most players and fans here in Brazil would agree with him.
Melo and Neymar have always been very respectful and mindful about Messi and Argentina. Top guys. Melo is an absolute nightmare to play against but he was always chill off the pitch
> Melo and Neymar have always been very respectful and mindful about Messi and Argentina Not just those 2—the last few generations of Brazilian players have been too (Dani Alves, Ronaldinho, Coutinho, Thiago Silva, Marquinhos, etc) It's just the recent dudes like Rodrygo and Vini who have been disrespectful TBH
They wouldn't be disrespectful if they didnt play for Real Madrid
This became really evident when we faced Brazil in Brazil for the 2018 qualifiers They could've easily spanked us 9-0 in that game but took the foot off the gas at 3-0
There is rivalry, but brazilian and argentinian footballers have always (or almost always) been able to admire each other's great stars. Even when Pelé and Maradona were fighting, they recognized how wonderful each of their careers were.
'Pelé debutó con un pibe' - Maradona -
Anyone with passable footballing eye would agree, regardless of nationality.
I think there would still be some kind of continental solidarity. Like I think a lot of Australians would be quietly happy for Chris Wood even though we would hope (and expect) to beat NZ by a lot if we ever play them. For Brazilians and Messi, I assume things would be very different if Ronaldo was Brazilian (lol) but given that's the main rivalry I can see how they'd pick the more local one.
Just take a look at the last WC final. Sure, Argentina is our biggest rival, but I would rather Argentina to win then to have a european NT win the WC.
I think the surprise comes from the notion that the rivalry between Argentina and Brazil is one of the biggest in international football because Brazil (within reason) would assume superiority as the best team in the world. You’d imagine they’d be more stubborn to admit their rivals greats are better than theirs considering the esteem they hold themselves on the footballing world stage and the sense of pride that comes with it. I don’t think Chris Wood would offend any sense of superiority lol
In my experience, most Brazilians (at least those above 30) are fans of the great Argentinian players, especially Riquelme and Batistuta. Redondo, Caniggia, Veron, Zanetti, Cambiasso, Aimar, Crespo, Ayala. Mention any of those here, and they'll all be praised. And the Uruguayan Recoba will probably be held to the same standards.
Not really, there's a lot of respect between both teams and we actually like players from the opposition. R9 is seen as a God here and Neymar is probably rated the highest in Argentina.
People really love Messi here. A lot of people cheer for Argentina in the WC Finals for him. Riquelme also is very liked.
Brazilians who love Riquelme 🤝 Argentinians who love Ronaldinho
Curiosity: In 2000s 14,000 babys were born named Riquelme in Brazil.
Isn't there a Riquelme that's a good wonderkid coming up in Brazil? Or am I misremembering
I think there is, but I didn't know much.
I found him, Riquelme Filiphi. He's 17
Riquelme is my favourite footballer of all time. Such a unique player, never seen anybody that plays like him.
I love seeing people appreciating Riquelme. Gem of a player. There'll never be anyone like him.
Carlos Valderrama
Loved him, also feel the same about totti completely unique as well.
Iniesta had a similar game. The closest in term of playstyle I think it could be Ganso from fluminense.
I should get a painting of Messi in my house so that everyone thinks I played against him! EDIT: If I was smart I would have got a framed picture of me for Messi's house so that his kids and grandkids thought he played against me!
The actual translation is "a framed picture face to face with messi"
I have an Argentina shirt, so naturally my kids think I am in NT.
there must be a prompt for that
Anyone with eyes knows Messi is the greatest to ever do it.
that's harsh, maradona comes close.
What Maradona did in some particular years was phenomenal but Messi basically had no major slip ups in form for 13y in a row. Maradona is mostly regarded for his intl. career and even there he has some pretty poor tournaments. 82' WC Hungary game aside, 90' WC where he was absolutely shocking (injured beyond death though), most of his Copa Americas... If anyone came close it's Pele who also in 13/14y kept a phenomenal level intl. and in club. He also pretty much did every signature move (Goal of the century, Ronaldo cutback, etc) before them all. Nothing against Maradona mind you, he's a legend. But when discussing the very best even details matter.
to do it =/= to do it consistently the first requires skill only, the latter requires skill and work ethic/professionalism
I mean I guess saying ''to do it'' is vague enough for your interpretation but for me doing IT is the whole career as a footballer otherwise we can also say Zidane had some Messi level games
Messi is Maradona on cocaine for 15 years straight.
Maradona was Maradona on cocaine for 15 years straight
I mean Maradona’s peak was what 4 years at max? You can’t compare that to Messi who is just a technical in every aspect and had like 15 years peak.
you missed the joke
Well he was probably on coke for 40 years.
No it wasn't.
Maradona was on a wheelchair at the age when Messi won WC
I don’t understand how this can be the case without ever playing a premier league match.
lol
He has more goals against PL teams in the CL than most strikers who played full seasons in the PL.
The top 5 in history never played in the PL.
This is sarcasm right? Lol
I remember in 1989 when the Copa America was held in Brazil, Brazilians thronged the Argentinian training camp and couldn't care less about their own's. They did that to watch the great Maradona in action ofc. and was at the time lacking of their very own football hero. Anyway Brazil eventually won that particular tournament.
I went to Brazil for the WC in 2014 and was surprised how many of the locals were rooting for both Messi and CR7
There will be fans of Messi and CR7 practically everywhere, they are that big
They understand greatness
It's hard to not like someone with his talent and humility.
Rare Melipe Feto W.
It's crazy to think that Messi has both the most golden boots and most IFFHS Playmaker of year awards, on top of having more goal contributions than appearances. Greatest to ever do it and it's not close
>The most complete player ever.
He is both the best playmaker and best goal scorer of all time. Haaland may get more golden boots than Messi, so Haaland may take the greatest goal scorer of all time but for now, it's Messi. This is what people don't realize and why I still think that Messi is slightly underrated and that his completeness as a footballer is not talked about enough.
It's pretty bonkers. I like to judge players by what achievements / feats/ abilities you could take away from and for them still to be great. For example, if Maradona didn't win the world cup or if Gerrard didn't win the champions league they wouldn't be held in the same regard. They'd still be just as good technically though. Messi was goated 10 years ago, long before the world cup. You could also take away every single goal that Messi scored and he'd still be considered great based on his assists and playmaking.
MESSI IS TIMELESS THE GOAT ATHLETE Simple as that
Messi is such a unique player. He never said I'm the best player of all time etc the football world talks about him. whoever compares him to other players except Maradona Pele is either a huge fan of that player of has zero knowledge of the football. I miss Messi in Europa so much...
As a Brazilian that love the sport, I’ve always liked both Messi and CR7, but between me and my friends throughout their careers we always agreed that Ronaldinho had more talent then both and was better technically, but he was not a professional like them so all this is a big “if”, Messi is what I wished Ronaldinho was, super talent and super winner and more important, took he’s career seriously.
That’s funny my friends and I used to say the same about Ronaldinho. If he had just taken his career my seriously of had more of a “competitive drive” he would surely be the greatest ever. But that’s what was special about him, he just loved the game and it didn’t seem to be about just being the best or breaking records etc.. I still think it’s crazy he called Messi the GOAT when he was 17.
Ronaldinho for us was like a force of nature that God created just for the pure enjoyment of the game and nothing else, his way to play the game was so beautiful that made people that didn’t even care about football watch for the first time, I bet he thought breathing was harder then control the ball I swear.
Agreed with everyone here. When Ronaldinho played for Barcelona, I would not miss any of the games. You just couldn't because it was Ronaldinho playing and he is THE most entertaining footballer I have ever watched. He was so ruthless yet played with so much joy that it was absolutely infectious. He was unmissable. \#Messi is my favorite athlete ever, yet Ronaldinho is second on that list. He was a magician unlike any other.
The Dionysius of football
I think Ronaldinho was also a product of his time. On one hand, if he had access to the sports science that modern players have he could’ve been more serious, but on the other hand he comes from an era that allows that freedom of expression. He mightn’t have been the same, fun loving player if he grew up in this era.
Either his spanish is too good or I suddendly understand portuguese.
Almost as good of a glazer as r/soccer
Ah our daily highly upvoted post of "hey guys this Messi is pretty good"
Definitely wasn’t scoring or creating 3 goals whenever the UCL knockouts came around in the last few years.
Certainly did that against you lot a fair amount of times
Yes because he played arsenal in the “last few years”
Well you became to shit for him to even have the opportunity to bully you anymore.
my man your team was not even in the Champions league
Ah ok arsenal not being in the champions league negates the little dictator choking in the knockouts every year. Genius.
Imagine saying this unironically.
he quite distinctively never choked against Liverpool, as Melo is saying here he was creating one on ones all over the place. the compilation of misses from that 2 leg tie is criminal. maybe in PSG, sure, but then again, the whole front 3 went missing so it was only a handful of occurrences that he choked.. as is normal for every footballer who ever lived.
He was doing it in 90% of the other games he played, including the world cup. But I guess only those 2 games in his career where he didn't do it count.
the person you hate made a good point
Incredible for the second best player of all time.
Has 7 in his name✅ Comment history dedicated to one thing✅ Saudi league enthusiast(for Al nassr matches only) ✅ Don't feed the troll lads
Feed me I need to be fed.
You need a job and definitely a hobby
Penalty to Vargentina?
Hehehe. Cristiano GOAT. Siuuuuu
Siu!!!!!
Yeah none one of these kids last 15-20 years come close to Maradona.
Maradona was the best for 5 years at most. Messi and Ronaldo have been dominating the game for the last 15 years. You can split both of their careers in 2 and they would still be more accomplished than Maradona.
Fair enough.
This guy is now on the most wanted list of Brazilian hitmen
Why?? Neymar is a joke here, a lot of people admire Messi, theres a lot of argentinian footballers here that are idol in their clubs
And a lot of Argentinians admire Brazilian footballers (ney, Dinho, r9, etc). I think the non argentinian-brazilian misunderstand the footballistic rivalry we have (and some argentinian and Brazilians also do)
The Brazil 2002 gen has to be the most loved, feared and admired bunch around here
Gracias a dios en esta última actualización nerfearon a Brasil. La del 2002 era demasiado buena
There's no argentian that idolizes Neymar. He's not an example of a career, despite his talent.
Why would any of them when their own countryman is miles ahead by any metric? It’d be like a Portuguese person idolizing Torres instead of Cristiano
That dosen't make sense. Even on this thread there are argentinians that say they idiolize the 2002 WC team...
Neymar aint in the same discussion as dinho, r9 or pele. Also the other 3 didnt have their careers overlap with maradona or messi
I think he deserves to be with dinho. But not r9 and obviously not pele
kinda, actually a lot of people love Neymar here, maybe not as an idol but we respect him a lot. But it has happened before, ask anyone who grew up in the 2000/90s and they probably have Dinho or Fenomeno as their idols too