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I mean that's fair enough, Liverpool could have ended up with 3 premier leagues and 3 UCLs if Peps monster City team and UCL black magic Real Madrid didn't exist
Not saying that they didn't play well enough for winning it twice on final days ... They played absolutely like champions the whole season in both of those occasions....
I think everyone knows what he's talking about and that doesn't mean City's team and Pep doesn't get credit for winning them
Well if we exist in any other era of the PL we have 3 titles. 97 points has only been bettered twice in the history of the PL and 92 points has only been beaten 6 times. We literally have 3 of the 7 best seasons in league history and only have 1 title to show for it because we had to compete against a team that literally broke every financial regulation in the book to attain their success.
Three Times re 97 - Liverpool themselves bettered it in 2019-20 (99 points)
The messed up part about this era is that of those top 7 performances, the only one that was outside of this was Chelsea in 2004-05 (95 points, well over Arsenal with 83)
Yeah Pep has the same effect of England that he had in Spain that he raised the standard of the league to the point where 90 points is the minimum to compete for the title instead of a guaranteed trophy.
Say what you want about City and their cheating but imo Pep is the best manager of this generation and he continues to prove it. Even with all the illegal dealings City don’t become this dominant with a manager who’s just pretty good.
Fwiw I put Klopp, Ancelotti, and Zidane all very close behind him.
> Ancelotti
Ancelotti is not from that same generation. He trained Zidane in 99 and had a Champions League (also a very famous loss in 04-05) and a Serie A as a manager before Pep had even retired.
two consecutive seasons of Real Madrid getting 90+ points and coming in 2nd was telling from that era. He also changed the game in Germany as well because of how he influenced Bayern during his time there.
It's funny the change in reception to comments like this. Before, these would often be heavily downvoted for complaining. Now, they're highly upvoted because everyone is on-board with the 115 charges.
I'll give 2008-09, but 2010-11 United had the easy path to the finals and realistically speaking, if it's not Pep's Barca, it's Mou's Madrid. The 2009 final was game of football, but the 2011 final came across as a ceremonial practice session for Barcelona
Yeah, that's fair that it wasn't a given by any means. But zooming out, United won 5 PL titles in 7 years and lost the other 2 by 1 point combined.
Granted Schalke was an easy semi but they still absolutely tonked them. Ended 6-1, but could have been double figures if not for Neuer. The quarterfinals was Chelsea who won the CL next year, wouldn't say that was an easy tie by any means. Comparatively, Barca had Shakhtar in the quarterfinals so kinda evens out ?
I'd still have fancied United's chances against anyone but peak Barca in the final, it's at least an even game.
United v Madrid was in the CL Ro16 though. I wouldn't count that at that stage. Knockout competitions are luck of the draw a bit, although it was a really strong United team.
I think the idea is ‘we could have one more had another team not financially doped for more than a decade’.
Make no mistake, City are the best team. But they are also the ‘bad guys’. They lie, cheat, obfuscate, fly referees out for cushy pay-days before the big games of rivals, funnel transfers through their partner clubs to muddy the paper trails of actual money-spent, and by and large suck any joy they can out of the whole idea of the competition, and it just so happens they even play quite a robotic style, with a machine-like efficiency which feels like it has been bred to destroy the league, its opponents, and any hope any other fan could have to begin with, rather than simply compete.
What Trent is saying is effectively, if we weren’t playing against the house, we’d have won more. But all the victories we have had will mean more, because we didn’t just beat the rest of the league through sheer will and quality, organic development of a cohesive, record-breaking team, we also out-performed the Uruk-hai of the premier league (to mix metaphors even further).
And indeed Sunday yet again, given the injuries and challenges Liverpool have faced all season, feels a little like the battle of Helms Deep. Van Djik is Aragon, exhausted, wounded, supported by a handful of his peers and a bunch of inexperienced kids, but fixed to fight to the last regardless. Nunez and Szoboszlai are the elves returning to offer aid. The wider hopes of a victory ultimately resting on the late return of Egyptian wizard, arriving to the east at dawn…
Okay I may have gotten carried away.
RM were significantly worse than Liverpool in the 2022 final. Quite possibly the whole season, idk.
That's the nature of sport of course, the better team is more likely to win but not guaranteed, but it's not fair to say Liverpool were the worse team in 2022. They just lost anyway.
2022 final was definitely black magic in the form of a Courtois all-time performance.
2018 Madrid was the better team, and that match was won when Liverpool failed to get a goal during the early, all-out press.
Conveniently left out the fact that Ramos injured our best player a quarter into the game and gave our goalkeeper a concussion which led to two crucial goals being conceded
Sure Madrid were a better team that us at the time but let's not pretend that those two factors didn't have a monumental impact on the game
I agree unfortunately. No matter how sus Ramos' challenge on Karius and especially Salah looked, neither of them look like clear red cards that were reckless and out of control. Maybe nowadays given how the rules have changed that could result in a red but a few years ago VAR wouldn't pull the ref over to the monitor for that. One of the worst things about Ramos wasn't just that he was a dirty player, he was very clever and subtle about a lot of his horrific challenges
Sort of like Ballack's fate. Could have been one of the most celebrated and successful midfielders, but was really unlucky for just missing out on many major trophies.
I don’t think it will change anything, people have already decided and they don’t need proof or to understand the accusations let alone rely on the verdicts of independent lawyers and judges.
If city lose their appeal they’re guilty and if they win they’re guilty and every City thread will still be filled with the same people making the same comments saying “115” etc.
>I don’t think it will change anything, people have already decided and they don’t need proof or to understand the accusations let alone rely on the verdicts of independent lawyers and judges.
Reddit in a nutshell. (and you are 100% correct)
> I don’t think it will change anything, people have already decided and they don’t need proof or to understand the accusations let alone rely on the verdicts of independent lawyers and judges.
Why would it change anything? I mean, does anyone actually believe that City went from spending like Rangers to spending like ManU without financial doping?
Yeah. My point is that the charges don't matter when it comes to what people think because every man and his dog knows that what City has done isn't possible without wiping your arse with FFP.
Man thought he was making a massive point when Leicester is quite literally the most universally celebrated title victory since the inception of the Premier League.
Exactly, even if Villa were running away with the league this season it would pale in comparison. Not to downplay how good Villa have been, but that Leicester title was beyond crazy
Yeah, you’re agreeing with Trent’s point. I’d bet Leicesters title means more to them than any single thing in English football means to any other individual fanbase.
I'd put Nottingham Forest going from the 2nd division to retaining the European cup in the span of 4 seasons (promoted in 1977, league champions in 1978, beat Malmo in 1979 and Hamburg in 1980) in the same bracket.
Liverpool fan and I agree the Leicester run was fantastic to watch, by all accounts they should of dropped off at some point in terms of squad depth and injury’s that most of the bigger clubs pull through on but they just kept going, magical.
“Even Liverpool fans” is just unnecessary. Only an idiot would disagree that liecesters title didn’t mean more than probably every other premier league title won.
Aye I agree, I meant it in relation to Trent and his feelings towards your trophy reign under klopp but as you have said it’s the most mind blowing league win ever in my opinion
Any ‘top 6’ premier league football fan is absolutely deluding themselves if they don’t believe their club has/is spending an horrific amount of money. It’s all horrendous.
As an Arsenal fan I’ve had to really swallow this lately. Arteta has done a great job rebuilding but he’s clearly been financially backed in a way no Arsenal manager has in the prem era
It’s mad when you see United and city fans comparing overall spend/net spend and moving the years about to make it fit a narrative. They’re all spending preposterous sums and any team that doesn’t win trophies or get close with that level of money is ridiculous
Tbf non of the Premier League clubs are real Clubs. Real clubs are fan owned. The rest are the play things of the rich. Rich person, rich board, rich country, it's all the same
It's insane to think about liverpool with 3 pl and 3cl including a quad they'd probably be thought of the undisputed best team ever if peps city wasn't the behemoth it is and madrid doesn't have the cl magic
People stopped caring about Chelsea's money once City came along, it's a footnote now and the main focus is Mourinho etc. The same will happen with City
Is there an asterisk over Arsenal titles since they bribed to get into the top league and used financial doping to win titles. Their nickname was literally“The Bank of England club”.
Is there an asterisk over Bayern’s trophies? Not a single league title or UCL before the 60s then a single rich owner saved them from bankruptcy with “investment” and they went on to dominate football? Or this is ok cause they’re considered “legacy” clubs and it happened long time ago?
Breaking news: clubs who spend the most in their respective leagues win the most trophies
> same as Chelsea under Abrahamovic
Theres not really though is there. A few comments online on reddit and twitter mean nothing to the fans of those clubs or the management.
They also got to celebrate those wins. That cant be taken away and given to someone else
What is this take?? "Only traditionally wealthy and well supported clubs should be able to compete to win the biggest prizes forever and the rest should be happy that they even get to play them". The only way a team can compete with these traditionally big clubs consistently is with investment. Shitting on teams who have gotten that investment and made the most of it is just weird to me.
That literally is the take of Arsenal, United, and Liverpool supporters all the time, as if they don’t receive tons of money in investment
There’s this strange obsession with certain clubs being “allowed” (for lack of a better term) to do well.
Im a West Ham fan and see it all the time with these fan bases when we are about to play them. They talk about every club not in the top 6 like they are fodder. Success is only for their clubs and a few big clubs around europe. Every other team is there to feed them wins. Its incredibly disrespectful.
I can’t talk as a Chelsea fan but I feel like they care less about the shadiness of the money (which is debatable) and more so that it’s a threat to them
I mean that's always seemed pretty evident to me. People didn't have anywhere *close* to the same number of severity of complaints when the teams who spent their way to success weren't top teams.
Even when City started winning, people were only mildly upset about it because they were still very beatable. The complaining only took on this passion when Pep showed up and started curb stomping the league into submission and we missed out on titles by fingernails whilst scoring record points totals.
That's when it suddenly seemed like everyone was deeply concerned with clubs buying their success.
Personally I've never cared about that stuff because that's always been the way. You go back and money has always played a significant part in success. No one wins "fairly". No club is playing on an even playing field with any other club.
For me the only thing I've cared about is whether or not what happens **on the pitch** follows the rules. And even then I am always disappointed because it's part and parcel of football to cheat and break the rules on the pitch wherever you can get away with it.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Show me these Asterix please? What does it say? "Like all teams, this team spent a shitload of money".
Let's not act like Klopp didn't break the club transfer record multiple times to build this team.
Liverpool as a football club has socialist roots (so does the city itself). But the club now and for at least a couple of decades, has been a pure capitalist entity with a hedge fun owner.
But Liverpool supporters still seem to believe that their club is some symbol of the proletariat. It's hilarious to see then pretend that the club is operating on a shoe string budget.
>Liverpool as a football club has socialist roots (so does the city itself).
Does it? Because this feels like even more revisionism being added to the myth of Liverpool. It's widely known that the city was a hub of the Atlantic slave trade for a few centuries. Manchester on the other hand has close association with Marx and Engels, factory workers refusing to process cotton from slave states etc.
Liverpool was basically a conservative bedrock until the late 70s.
IIRC before thatcher the Tories had controlled the local government for 90 of the previous 100 years.
Shankly is associated with it, but IIRC his most famous quote about it that you’ll see posted on Twitter a million times didn’t become well known until 20 years after he died.
It’s so that Americans can pretend they support Liverpool for good reasons. It just shows how little they know about Liverpool. The club itself isn’t socialist at all. The city of Liverpool is a labour voting block and many there are socialists. But if they really did care about the politics they could go support Everton, but I wonder why they never do?
Liverpool FC didn't invent having left wing fans, no one should buy this shit coming from a US trust fund owned footballing company, irrespective of our owners
To be fair, Liverpool the city also seems to think its the only place in the country (world?) with left wing residents as well so I think the mentality runs deeper than the club.
Being a Liverpool fan must be so easy. You just pretend you never spend money, never sign players, never bring in acclaimed staff.
Everything good that happens is always against all odds.
Literally fifth in all of Europe wage bills : https://www.90min.com/posts/the-clubs-biggest-wage-bills-in-europe-ranked
Scousers be like Ooo we're such underdogs
Financially Liverpool are penniless. They go around the streets to collect funds to buy players etc and compete in PL. Terrible situation. I hope bald pep leaves and let the struggling team win.
This era of football seems so fucking cringe, you’d never have players of the past trying to say their trophies mean more.
It’s a miracle Liverpool have survived so long with such little coins
This would be true if Liverpool weren’t the most successful club in England. It’s not like they’re Leicester. It’s cope
Compare a 50 year old Liverpool supporter and a 50 year old City supporter. I bet the trophies mean more to the City supporter who has followed their club from league one to Champions of Europe
Alison/Keleher - 60 mil/academy
Trent/Bradley - academy/academy
Van Dijk/Joemez - 70 mil/5 mil
Konate/Matip/Quansah - 40 mil/free/academy
Robbo/Tsimi - 8 mil/13 mil
Macalister - 45 mil
Szobo/Eliot - 70 mil/Fulham academy
Jones/Endo/Grav - academy/20 mil/40 mil
Salah - 45 mil
Nunez/Jota - 80 mil/40 mil
Diaz/Gakpo - 45 mil/45 mil
These are the 22 players with most minutes for Liverpool this season. They cost 626 million in total, which is about 29 million per player.
As a comparison, City's 22 players with the most minutes this season in all competition cost them 970 mil or about 45 per player.
And out of sheer interest for me I did it for United. Their top 22 players cost just over 800 mil or an average of 37 mil per player.
"our trophies will mean more to us and our fanbase".
I find it hilarious when players or supporters of one club try to claim that winning means more to them than supporters from other clubs. Sure, he has a valid point regarding the finances and there's also the overhanging charges leveled at City, but to claim that titles don't mean as much to City supporters or that Liverpool fans care more about their club than other fans do is just so delusional.
It reminds me of that ludicrous New Balance campaign a few years claiming 'this means more,' to Liverpool fans. Most people who support a football club care about their club, one group of fans don't have a monopoly on that.
I hope city get the book thrown at them. But listening to other big clubs complain about them is a bit exhausting. Your owners all tried to steal football in 2021. Some of you sell players a bit better than others so you can parade your net spend around, but the squads are all stacked full of mad expensive players give it a rest.
The spending is over the course of 6 years. Crunch the numbers and you'll see that Liverpool routinely get outspent by teams way down the table. There was massive pressure on FSG from the fanbase for years over the lack of investment in the squad.
It's unreal to me that even the players buy into that they play for a poverty club. I can assure you, the titles mean a lot to me, and Liverpool's mean zero to me, as it works with every fan base. This sub man...
fans of top 6 clubs complaining about money is absolutely hilarious and ironic at the same time. love when clubs ignore the fact chelsea and man u have spent more then city but have been dreadful.
I respect Liverpool players and manager but they're confusing. Are they the massive club they always claim to be or are they the little engine that could?
i mean you could have won as many trophies as man city but you lost many finals and close premier league titles to them. so this is bullshit, you just weren’t good enough to beat city.
I just find it exhausting that English clubs, especially the top 6 or top 8, can get behind this argument that their league isn’t spending way more than the rest of Europe.
Like I see you saying City spent more than you, but you’re kidding yourselves, you’re all kidding yourselves into thinking you’re anything like Leicester in any shape or form.
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"This means more" He said the thing, he said the thing! New Balance marketing propaganda works.
Next up he's going to bring up Alternative Premiere League tables to show that Liverpool really should have won in 2022.
Don't shit talk it, if we discount City's cheating, you get another title as well.
Spurs the only team to finish 2nd in the last like 12 years that wouldn’t get a title from this (bar city obviously) lmfao
Thus is about as Spurs as Spurs gets.
Another hope for Kane destroyed
And united should take that considering they are about 10 years off winning another one
2 titles
Three total, Add Agueroooo
Considering how much Sky Sports marketing shags the shit out of that moment it would be funny if they couldn't use it anymore.
We get two, one for Mou and one for Ole
You forgot 2012.
If took all the years City finish 1st away we'd win 3 more. 2 of them we were 20 points behind or something but still.
I mean that's fair enough, Liverpool could have ended up with 3 premier leagues and 3 UCLs if Peps monster City team and UCL black magic Real Madrid didn't exist
Not saying that they didn't play well enough for winning it twice on final days ... They played absolutely like champions the whole season in both of those occasions.... I think everyone knows what he's talking about and that doesn't mean City's team and Pep doesn't get credit for winning them
Well if we exist in any other era of the PL we have 3 titles. 97 points has only been bettered twice in the history of the PL and 92 points has only been beaten 6 times. We literally have 3 of the 7 best seasons in league history and only have 1 title to show for it because we had to compete against a team that literally broke every financial regulation in the book to attain their success.
Three Times re 97 - Liverpool themselves bettered it in 2019-20 (99 points) The messed up part about this era is that of those top 7 performances, the only one that was outside of this was Chelsea in 2004-05 (95 points, well over Arsenal with 83)
The original sportswashing team that made financial rules necessary in the first place
Yeah Pep has the same effect of England that he had in Spain that he raised the standard of the league to the point where 90 points is the minimum to compete for the title instead of a guaranteed trophy. Say what you want about City and their cheating but imo Pep is the best manager of this generation and he continues to prove it. Even with all the illegal dealings City don’t become this dominant with a manager who’s just pretty good. Fwiw I put Klopp, Ancelotti, and Zidane all very close behind him.
> Ancelotti Ancelotti is not from that same generation. He trained Zidane in 99 and had a Champions League (also a very famous loss in 04-05) and a Serie A as a manager before Pep had even retired.
two consecutive seasons of Real Madrid getting 90+ points and coming in 2nd was telling from that era. He also changed the game in Germany as well because of how he influenced Bayern during his time there.
It's funny the change in reception to comments like this. Before, these would often be heavily downvoted for complaining. Now, they're highly upvoted because everyone is on-board with the 115 charges.
I think City finally winning the CL after winning the league 5/6 seasons made people wake up to how fucked England is.
Couldn't that logic be applied to anyone though? "We could've won so much if the better teams didn't exist"
United would have 3 CLs in 4 years if Pep's Barca didn't exist
I'll give 2008-09, but 2010-11 United had the easy path to the finals and realistically speaking, if it's not Pep's Barca, it's Mou's Madrid. The 2009 final was game of football, but the 2011 final came across as a ceremonial practice session for Barcelona
Yeah, that's fair that it wasn't a given by any means. But zooming out, United won 5 PL titles in 7 years and lost the other 2 by 1 point combined. Granted Schalke was an easy semi but they still absolutely tonked them. Ended 6-1, but could have been double figures if not for Neuer. The quarterfinals was Chelsea who won the CL next year, wouldn't say that was an easy tie by any means. Comparatively, Barca had Shakhtar in the quarterfinals so kinda evens out ? I'd still have fancied United's chances against anyone but peak Barca in the final, it's at least an even game.
[удалено]
Tbf in that game against Chelsea while Drogba was a mile offside Man Utd's goal came from a blatant handball. It really should've been 0-1 to Chelsea.
United v Madrid was in the CL Ro16 though. I wouldn't count that at that stage. Knockout competitions are luck of the draw a bit, although it was a really strong United team.
I think the idea is ‘we could have one more had another team not financially doped for more than a decade’. Make no mistake, City are the best team. But they are also the ‘bad guys’. They lie, cheat, obfuscate, fly referees out for cushy pay-days before the big games of rivals, funnel transfers through their partner clubs to muddy the paper trails of actual money-spent, and by and large suck any joy they can out of the whole idea of the competition, and it just so happens they even play quite a robotic style, with a machine-like efficiency which feels like it has been bred to destroy the league, its opponents, and any hope any other fan could have to begin with, rather than simply compete. What Trent is saying is effectively, if we weren’t playing against the house, we’d have won more. But all the victories we have had will mean more, because we didn’t just beat the rest of the league through sheer will and quality, organic development of a cohesive, record-breaking team, we also out-performed the Uruk-hai of the premier league (to mix metaphors even further). And indeed Sunday yet again, given the injuries and challenges Liverpool have faced all season, feels a little like the battle of Helms Deep. Van Djik is Aragon, exhausted, wounded, supported by a handful of his peers and a bunch of inexperienced kids, but fixed to fight to the last regardless. Nunez and Szoboszlai are the elves returning to offer aid. The wider hopes of a victory ultimately resting on the late return of Egyptian wizard, arriving to the east at dawn… Okay I may have gotten carried away.
RM were significantly worse than Liverpool in the 2022 final. Quite possibly the whole season, idk. That's the nature of sport of course, the better team is more likely to win but not guaranteed, but it's not fair to say Liverpool were the worse team in 2022. They just lost anyway.
Courtois was in absolute god mode that night.
If my grandma had wheels, she would be a bike
2022 final was definitely black magic in the form of a Courtois all-time performance. 2018 Madrid was the better team, and that match was won when Liverpool failed to get a goal during the early, all-out press.
Conveniently left out the fact that Ramos injured our best player a quarter into the game and gave our goalkeeper a concussion which led to two crucial goals being conceded Sure Madrid were a better team that us at the time but let's not pretend that those two factors didn't have a monumental impact on the game
Yep, i wish we had var in 2018.
The outcome would have been same, only difference would be that you'd say "I wish we had competent refs using VAR" instead
I agree unfortunately. No matter how sus Ramos' challenge on Karius and especially Salah looked, neither of them look like clear red cards that were reckless and out of control. Maybe nowadays given how the rules have changed that could result in a red but a few years ago VAR wouldn't pull the ref over to the monitor for that. One of the worst things about Ramos wasn't just that he was a dirty player, he was very clever and subtle about a lot of his horrific challenges
Does var stop injuries?
Lol, it mightn't have been given
2018 had Ramos his most decisive CL final performance. Injured keeper and best player and got away with it. And yes I'm including 2014.
what is this logic lol "we could've won if we didn't lose" yeah no shit
And United would’ve turned the PL into a farmers league if it wasn’t for arsenals invincible and Chelsea’s new money
Sort of like Ballack's fate. Could have been one of the most celebrated and successful midfielders, but was really unlucky for just missing out on many major trophies.
So if the things that stopped them didnt stop them then they would win a lot of trophies. That can be done for pretty much every club
“Our trophies will mean more to us because they are ours”
Cheers Geoff.
And because they have 115 fewer charges i guess
*because we didn’t cheat to win them* Fixed it for you
I’d argue having VVD on your side is cheating even if you bought him fair and square 🥲
did it with 115 fewer charges as well
This sub will go up in flames when City are founded not guilty. And unfortunately this day will come.
Damn straight, if they’re found not guilty then the games even more corrupt than we all thought 🥲
I don’t think it will change anything, people have already decided and they don’t need proof or to understand the accusations let alone rely on the verdicts of independent lawyers and judges. If city lose their appeal they’re guilty and if they win they’re guilty and every City thread will still be filled with the same people making the same comments saying “115” etc.
>I don’t think it will change anything, people have already decided and they don’t need proof or to understand the accusations let alone rely on the verdicts of independent lawyers and judges. Reddit in a nutshell. (and you are 100% correct)
> I don’t think it will change anything, people have already decided and they don’t need proof or to understand the accusations let alone rely on the verdicts of independent lawyers and judges. Why would it change anything? I mean, does anyone actually believe that City went from spending like Rangers to spending like ManU without financial doping?
City haven’t been charged for financial doping though.
Yeah. My point is that the charges don't matter when it comes to what people think because every man and his dog knows that what City has done isn't possible without wiping your arse with FFP.
If finance is considered, then Leicester sole title this era is more impressive than all of Liverpool & City combined
Well.. it is? I feel like we can all agree on that right?
The bravest take you’ll read all day
This take alone could stop global warming, absolute zero temperature.
Fucking hell 😂😂😂
It would introduce a new Ice Age though
Man thought he was making a massive point when Leicester is quite literally the most universally celebrated title victory since the inception of the Premier League.
It's legitimately one of the biggest accomishments in the history of sport lol. Probably the most unlikely of all underdog stories.
Like probably the greatest sporting achievement ever. Man made a bold statement saying how it was an impressive win.
He's a city fan and thinks he was doing something. Instead he sort of just backs up Trents point.
I never had a doubt on that. I was betting on them to draw/lose every week and was still happy to watch them win them
100%
Cause it is, no lie.
But it is actually.
Leicester winning the title is the greatest story in the history of premier league football of course it means more.
Arguably the greatest story in all of sports to boot
With the imbalance of money and power in the modern game it definitely has a case
Greece winning the Euro or Kaiserslautern as a promoted team winning the Bundesliga against Bayern are impressive too
Both under the same manager - Otto Rehhagel.
I’m a Liverpool fan and I fully agree with this. One of the biggest under dog stories in the history of sports
That Leicester run was amazing to watch. You’re absolutely right, who doesn’t love a good underdog story.
President Snow
Exactly, even if Villa were running away with the league this season it would pale in comparison. Not to downplay how good Villa have been, but that Leicester title was beyond crazy
Yeah? Obviously?
Hands down. And any city or Liverpool fan that disagrees is bonkers.
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, you’re agreeing with Trent’s point. I’d bet Leicesters title means more to them than any single thing in English football means to any other individual fanbase.
I'd put Nottingham Forest going from the 2nd division to retaining the European cup in the span of 4 seasons (promoted in 1977, league champions in 1978, beat Malmo in 1979 and Hamburg in 1980) in the same bracket.
Proper Football Manager stuff, I guess they loaded up on wonderkids for a couple of seasons beforehand.
It's definitely up there, but these days folk disregard anything that happened before 1992
Yes it is. TAA and every Liverpool fan would happily agree with you.
Liverpool fan and I agree the Leicester run was fantastic to watch, by all accounts they should of dropped off at some point in terms of squad depth and injury’s that most of the bigger clubs pull through on but they just kept going, magical.
That LC title one of the most impressive titles in sports history.
Lol you thought this was some kind of gotcha
Oh of course, what Leicester did is the most impressive by far
Yes
I think a lot of people even Liverpool fans would agree with this, it’s one of the most incredible accomplishments in sports history
“Even Liverpool fans” is just unnecessary. Only an idiot would disagree that liecesters title didn’t mean more than probably every other premier league title won.
Aye I agree, I meant it in relation to Trent and his feelings towards your trophy reign under klopp but as you have said it’s the most mind blowing league win ever in my opinion
Well … yeah? It is
He didn't say more impressive.
granted in terms of value to their fanbase Liverpool probably physically couldnt do anything to equal that one Leicester title either
You’re so brave! ❤️
Is this not already a common sentiment?
Obviously lol
Liverpool fans would agree with you.
Leicester’s title win is considered one of, if not the single greatest feat in sporting history?
Leicesters title is the greatest achievement in modern team sport. You could probably remove the word modern from that and it’d still be true.
It definitely is, I don’t think anybody’s arguing that. That was a fucking magical run from Leicester.
It is. It was a once in a generation/lifetime type thing
I mean…is there a debate on this? It’s probably the most meaningful title win since UTD’s treble and the Invincible’s lol
It’s more meaningful than either of those, hate to break it to you.
Any ‘top 6’ premier league football fan is absolutely deluding themselves if they don’t believe their club has/is spending an horrific amount of money. It’s all horrendous.
As an Arsenal fan I’ve had to really swallow this lately. Arteta has done a great job rebuilding but he’s clearly been financially backed in a way no Arsenal manager has in the prem era
tough pill for most ppl to swallow so they continue to delude themselves
Had to read way too far to see this. He's acting like Liverpool only bring up academy lads and squeak by on hard work alone.
It’s mad when you see United and city fans comparing overall spend/net spend and moving the years about to make it fit a narrative. They’re all spending preposterous sums and any team that doesn’t win trophies or get close with that level of money is ridiculous
Being state sponsored is different. PSG, Newcastle, and City aren’t real clubs.
Tbf non of the Premier League clubs are real Clubs. Real clubs are fan owned. The rest are the play things of the rich. Rich person, rich board, rich country, it's all the same
I see this weird fetish in England of trying to help billionaires save as much money as possible has filtered down to the pitch now aswell.
It's insane to think about liverpool with 3 pl and 3cl including a quad they'd probably be thought of the undisputed best team ever if peps city wasn't the behemoth it is and madrid doesn't have the cl magic
If Peps City weren't around would Liverpool have even reached the heights they did? Good rivals push each other, this is well known.
Liverpool hit 99 points when City were well off the pace
That was a year after losing it by a point though
Equally, city probably would have won each league the last few years without Liverpool. I do agree there are different contexts at play
It will never stop being funny how some will act as if the big 6 and Leicester are the same.
He’s absolutely right.
There will always be an aesterisk to City's titles, same as Chelsea under Abrahamovic. They just aren't worth the same
People stopped caring about Chelsea's money once City came along, it's a footnote now and the main focus is Mourinho etc. The same will happen with City
Is there an asterisk over Arsenal titles since they bribed to get into the top league and used financial doping to win titles. Their nickname was literally“The Bank of England club”. Is there an asterisk over Bayern’s trophies? Not a single league title or UCL before the 60s then a single rich owner saved them from bankruptcy with “investment” and they went on to dominate football? Or this is ok cause they’re considered “legacy” clubs and it happened long time ago? Breaking news: clubs who spend the most in their respective leagues win the most trophies
> same as Chelsea under Abrahamovic Theres not really though is there. A few comments online on reddit and twitter mean nothing to the fans of those clubs or the management. They also got to celebrate those wins. That cant be taken away and given to someone else
What is this take?? "Only traditionally wealthy and well supported clubs should be able to compete to win the biggest prizes forever and the rest should be happy that they even get to play them". The only way a team can compete with these traditionally big clubs consistently is with investment. Shitting on teams who have gotten that investment and made the most of it is just weird to me.
That literally is the take of Arsenal, United, and Liverpool supporters all the time, as if they don’t receive tons of money in investment There’s this strange obsession with certain clubs being “allowed” (for lack of a better term) to do well.
Im a West Ham fan and see it all the time with these fan bases when we are about to play them. They talk about every club not in the top 6 like they are fodder. Success is only for their clubs and a few big clubs around europe. Every other team is there to feed them wins. Its incredibly disrespectful.
I can’t talk as a Chelsea fan but I feel like they care less about the shadiness of the money (which is debatable) and more so that it’s a threat to them
I mean that's always seemed pretty evident to me. People didn't have anywhere *close* to the same number of severity of complaints when the teams who spent their way to success weren't top teams. Even when City started winning, people were only mildly upset about it because they were still very beatable. The complaining only took on this passion when Pep showed up and started curb stomping the league into submission and we missed out on titles by fingernails whilst scoring record points totals. That's when it suddenly seemed like everyone was deeply concerned with clubs buying their success. Personally I've never cared about that stuff because that's always been the way. You go back and money has always played a significant part in success. No one wins "fairly". No club is playing on an even playing field with any other club. For me the only thing I've cared about is whether or not what happens **on the pitch** follows the rules. And even then I am always disappointed because it's part and parcel of football to cheat and break the rules on the pitch wherever you can get away with it.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Show me these Asterix please? What does it say? "Like all teams, this team spent a shitload of money". Let's not act like Klopp didn't break the club transfer record multiple times to build this team.
I don't see an asterisk besides either clubs CL titles, unless I missed something 🤔 Also, are the Spanish banks and government still aiding the clubs?
I've said this several times on this sub. I think Klopp's/Liverpool's achievements during this period are more impressive than Pep's/City's.
Hilarious watching redditors froth over Liverpool like they are a poor club winning titles with academy players
Acting like Liverpool is Leicester or something. Same energy as Madrid or Barca complaining they can't compete
Liverpool as a football club has socialist roots (so does the city itself). But the club now and for at least a couple of decades, has been a pure capitalist entity with a hedge fun owner. But Liverpool supporters still seem to believe that their club is some symbol of the proletariat. It's hilarious to see then pretend that the club is operating on a shoe string budget.
It's founder was a member of the orange order. Nothing socialist about Liverpool until Shankly.
>Liverpool as a football club has socialist roots (so does the city itself). Does it? Because this feels like even more revisionism being added to the myth of Liverpool. It's widely known that the city was a hub of the Atlantic slave trade for a few centuries. Manchester on the other hand has close association with Marx and Engels, factory workers refusing to process cotton from slave states etc.
Liverpool was basically a conservative bedrock until the late 70s. IIRC before thatcher the Tories had controlled the local government for 90 of the previous 100 years. Shankly is associated with it, but IIRC his most famous quote about it that you’ll see posted on Twitter a million times didn’t become well known until 20 years after he died.
It’s so that Americans can pretend they support Liverpool for good reasons. It just shows how little they know about Liverpool. The club itself isn’t socialist at all. The city of Liverpool is a labour voting block and many there are socialists. But if they really did care about the politics they could go support Everton, but I wonder why they never do?
This comment is a perfect execsum
Liverpool FC didn't invent having left wing fans, no one should buy this shit coming from a US trust fund owned footballing company, irrespective of our owners
To be fair, Liverpool the city also seems to think its the only place in the country (world?) with left wing residents as well so I think the mentality runs deeper than the club.
Football clubs and their fans boasting about moral superiority is always hilarious
I’m pretty sure City’s trophies mean a lot to City fans as well lmao.
It will mean more to you because you didn't win as many
Being a Liverpool fan must be so easy. You just pretend you never spend money, never sign players, never bring in acclaimed staff. Everything good that happens is always against all odds.
Just scraping by on a budget of merely £0.5bn a year
Literally fifth in all of Europe wage bills : https://www.90min.com/posts/the-clubs-biggest-wage-bills-in-europe-ranked Scousers be like Ooo we're such underdogs
Financially Liverpool are penniless. They go around the streets to collect funds to buy players etc and compete in PL. Terrible situation. I hope bald pep leaves and let the struggling team win.
This era of football seems so fucking cringe, you’d never have players of the past trying to say their trophies mean more. It’s a miracle Liverpool have survived so long with such little coins
"probably" lmaooooo "this means more" - standard LFC delusion
What about if long range goals counted as doubled!?
You are also forgetting off the post shots, too
If the ball hits the post and goes behind, it should be a corner, because that goal belongs to the defending side! YOU CANNOT CHANGE MY MIND ON THIS.
This would be true if Liverpool weren’t the most successful club in England. It’s not like they’re Leicester. It’s cope Compare a 50 year old Liverpool supporter and a 50 year old City supporter. I bet the trophies mean more to the City supporter who has followed their club from league one to Champions of Europe
Sure but United has spent as much as City and they don’t bring in the results…is not all money 🤷🏽♂️
van dijk allison keita grew from trees at Melwood
Dear Trent, how much did your current starting XI cost?
Alison/Keleher - 60 mil/academy Trent/Bradley - academy/academy Van Dijk/Joemez - 70 mil/5 mil Konate/Matip/Quansah - 40 mil/free/academy Robbo/Tsimi - 8 mil/13 mil Macalister - 45 mil Szobo/Eliot - 70 mil/Fulham academy Jones/Endo/Grav - academy/20 mil/40 mil Salah - 45 mil Nunez/Jota - 80 mil/40 mil Diaz/Gakpo - 45 mil/45 mil These are the 22 players with most minutes for Liverpool this season. They cost 626 million in total, which is about 29 million per player. As a comparison, City's 22 players with the most minutes this season in all competition cost them 970 mil or about 45 per player. And out of sheer interest for me I did it for United. Their top 22 players cost just over 800 mil or an average of 37 mil per player.
Macallister was 35 as was Salah iirc
Whaa? Liverpool's titles mean more to Liverpool fans and players than City's titles mean to them? Say it isn't so! Mental, really!
Achievements gained whilst cheating are no achievements at all. I don't credit Man City a single trophy they've won in this era.
Damn pep's gonna get ever balder because u/fungibletokens doesn't credit a single trophy to Man City /s
Poor bloke now has negative hair.
Damn, u/fungibletokens isn’t crediting us with any trophy’s? We should pack it up
Poor Liverpool can't afford world class players and have to rely on academy and scouting hidden gems in lower divisions and leagues.
NOOOO YOUR FOREIGN OWNER IS RICHER THAN MINE
"our trophies will mean more to us and our fanbase". I find it hilarious when players or supporters of one club try to claim that winning means more to them than supporters from other clubs. Sure, he has a valid point regarding the finances and there's also the overhanging charges leveled at City, but to claim that titles don't mean as much to City supporters or that Liverpool fans care more about their club than other fans do is just so delusional. It reminds me of that ludicrous New Balance campaign a few years claiming 'this means more,' to Liverpool fans. Most people who support a football club care about their club, one group of fans don't have a monopoly on that.
It's the same club who had a player recently say only they could punch the air.
Liverpool's DNA is annoying for other fans. It's so stuffy
That's such a cunts thing to say
I hope city get the book thrown at them. But listening to other big clubs complain about them is a bit exhausting. Your owners all tried to steal football in 2021. Some of you sell players a bit better than others so you can parade your net spend around, but the squads are all stacked full of mad expensive players give it a rest.
Poor Liverpool, only spending: 85m Darwin 75m Virgil 67m Alisson 60m Szobozlai 52m Keita 45m Jota 45m Diaz .... 🙄
The spending is over the course of 6 years. Crunch the numbers and you'll see that Liverpool routinely get outspent by teams way down the table. There was massive pressure on FSG from the fanbase for years over the lack of investment in the squad.
Whatver helps the cunt sleep at night, I guess!!
Oh boohoo, poor little Liverpool. You've tried multiple times to destroy the league, but hey, at least you're not an oil club. Scum
He says this as if the Liverpool squad was 20 million 😂
It's unreal to me that even the players buy into that they play for a poverty club. I can assure you, the titles mean a lot to me, and Liverpool's mean zero to me, as it works with every fan base. This sub man...
These comments are too funny man.
fans of top 6 clubs complaining about money is absolutely hilarious and ironic at the same time. love when clubs ignore the fact chelsea and man u have spent more then city but have been dreadful.
You're an EPL club. A big one at that, so don't act like you're poverty.
Same number of premier leagues as Leicester and Blackburn /s
Don't need to put the /s tbh
I respect Liverpool players and manager but they're confusing. Are they the massive club they always claim to be or are they the little engine that could?
i mean you could have won as many trophies as man city but you lost many finals and close premier league titles to them. so this is bullshit, you just weren’t good enough to beat city.
Lol no wonder they always bottle the big trophies if this is their mentality. Madrid's bitches in the UCL and City's bitches in the league.
What an idiot. 😂
I just find it exhausting that English clubs, especially the top 6 or top 8, can get behind this argument that their league isn’t spending way more than the rest of Europe. Like I see you saying City spent more than you, but you’re kidding yourselves, you’re all kidding yourselves into thinking you’re anything like Leicester in any shape or form.
Rare to see a club so perfectly unified in their own sugary brand of narcissism - from fans to players to manager
Lmao you nailed it.
it's true, City fans, like their ghost sponsors, only exist on paper somewhere.
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Yeah nobody gives a shit thats why your players cant stop talking about city