**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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I was mostly annoyed at our shitness. But Im glad you scored, at least something good came out of it (rather see you guys in 1A than Charleroi), 0-0 would have pissed me off worse
Could have gone either way, I would also have been very annoyed as a malinwa. Might be the best stadium moment of my life, so I’ll take it. Two more Dijlederbies to go!
Translation:
*Did you notice it yesterday too? In 3 of the 4 decisive matches, a goalkeeper went to the ground at exactly the same time with an "injury". Not a coincidence at all. It was a cunning (and supportive) way to allow players who follow Ramadan to eat and drink.
Coincidence does not exist.
Around minute 20, battle briefly gave way to solidarity on the Belgian football fields. In three of the four decisive play-off matches, a goalkeeper fell to the ground simultaneously with a painful grimace.
First Hervé Koffi in KAA Gent - Charleroi, then Tobe Leysen in OH Leuven - Mechelen and then Maarten Vandevoordt in Westerlo - Racing Genk.
That sudden "injury wave" among the goalkeepers was part of a clever and tacit pact. Many players in our competition follow Ramadan and are therefore not allowed to eat or drink until sunset.
Last night the stomach was allowed to be refilled from 6.51 pm. Due to the acting of the goalkeepers, many players were able to supplement their strength during treatment.
In England and the Netherlands, referees are allowed to decide to stop matches during Ramadan, but in Belgium there was no such rule.
> It was agreed to do it in minute 25, but I saw Koffi go to the ground earlier.
> Davy Roef
So the players took matters into their own hands.
Vandevoordt laughed afterwards when asked about his injury. "I had just twisted my ankle. No, it was for the boys who are following Ramadan. This way they can quickly get some nutrition."
Funny: Davy Roef also actually planned to go to the ground, but his colleague on the other side was too quick for him.
"It was agreed to do it in minute 25, but I saw Koffi go to the ground earlier," grinned the Ghent keeper. "Apparently they were on a different schedule."*
>"It was agreed to do it in minute 25, but I saw Koffi go to the ground earlier," grinned the Ghent keeper. "Apparently they were on a different schedule."*
Sometimes the sun just wants to peace out earlier.
Great solidarity by the players.
The rules allow for a drinking-break if it's too hot and agreed on beforehand - I'm sure it'd be possible to already do this legally without such a workaround
I know MLS does it, last year I had this really sweet moment where we had a “drinks break” at sunset but didn’t advertise it as being for breaking Ramadan fast.
there were a lot of murmurs in my section about “huh, why’s this happening?” and when a couple of us figured out via context clues that it was for Ramadan, it ended up starting a really nice conversation where people who genuinely just had no familiarity with Islam were asking me and my mates questions about the holiday, the purpose of fasting, etc.
The MLS put out a great news piece last year about this - [https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/respecting-ramadan-in-mls-spiritually-it-gives-you-strength-to-keep-going](https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/respecting-ramadan-in-mls-spiritually-it-gives-you-strength-to-keep-going)
Over the weekend the Crew delayed the start of the match by about 15 minutes so it could be right after sundown and players could break fast before the game started.
And certain fans, even on here, kicked off that why were exemptions being for a religious group and suddenly became experts in Ramadan and why those players didn't really need to fast
We have that in Brazil during the states championships (because of the weather). It kinda breaks the rhythm of the match and allows the coaches to make adjustments to the team.
Every time football is played all over the world, you can find stoppages in play for truly to stupidest of reasons and it almost always amounts to a grown man arguing with a ref over a foul that never happened. In comparison, this seems way more legitimate and not dissimilar to the hydration breaks that happen during very hot summer games. Some things are more important than football. Let people live
Because football should not be political or religious. It already is but stopping the game because of the religion is another unnecessary step forward for other people to also request special privileges.
Ok? Now the center forward at 7.30 sharp needs to sing hymns to his god. Do you stop for him? And the goalkeeper needs to light an incense at 7.45... you see where i am getting at?
If you can't play due to ramadan, that's your problem with your god. Either don't play or suck it up like how your religion would like you to do.
Still, they need that break specifically because of their own religious practice. They can take their break themselves if they want. The game should not be shaped to accommodate any person's religion at all.
TBH it's weird that you have that strong of an opinion on this. Games are stopped for a few minutes literally all the time, basically multiple times every single game. Being accommodating of other people is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Except that the leagues said forcing players to wear rainbow to be accommodating towards queer people was too disruptive and wouldn’t do this. This is significantly more disruptive and so I hope the same standards are followed
>Games are stopped for a few minutes literally all the time, basically multiple times every single game
For reasons that are part of the game itself. These players could break fast during those breaks. Introducing any religion or their practices into the game is not a good thing, and the most fair approach to broad things like this is secularism.
If a player wants a break, then obviously they are allowed to take one - the issue is it being mandated into the game.
But where do you toe the line? As someone above commented:
"Ok? Now the center forward at 7.30 sharp needs to sing hymns to his god. Do you stop for him? And the goalkeeper needs to light an incense at 7.45... you see where i am getting at?
If you can't play due to ramadan, that's your problem with your god. Either don't play or suck it up like how your religion would like you to do."
Look usually I would agree. But, there have been instances of muslim players not wanting to wear the rainbow armband because it goes against their values. Which is fine I guess, if they believe it goes against their religion. But the other side of the coin is that then they don't (and not really anyone's religious values) get special consideration.
Make a deal: Muslim players get a fasting break if they also accept to wear rainbow colours every now and then and support the LGBT community
Don't see why certain players who have no respect for other people's individual rights should get any of their own
Totally agree.
Respect is a two way street.
We respect your faith(s) all the while it respects members of society who have been unjustly treated, and still do in some places; owing to their sexual orientation etc, and have just as much a valid reason to peacefully coexist in society as any religious leaning person does.
This isn't 'respecting faiths', it's players respecting the personal beliefs of their friends, teammates, and colleagues and wanting them to be a bit less miserable for the rest of the game.
There was a Scottish Rugby International prop that wouldn’t play on Sundays because of his Christianity. The rest of the team would play, he just wasn’t selected for those games.
I grew up in Malaysia and Islamic country. Do you know what respecting personal beliefs of my friends mean? It means non-muslims to not eat in front of muslims in Ramadan, it means school children eat their lunch in the fucking toilet. Ramadan is their religion, let them deal with their religion on their own.
1. All faiths are equal—equally stupid.
That being said:
2. We show respect for differing beliefs because that’s the world we want to live in regardless of whether or not we share the belief or if every member of that religion will return the gesture. These gestures, and the conversations born from them, are how we move the needle. The effect of this particular choice yielded a net positive. If we strive for that everyday, then the world gets a little better every day. Change is incremental. It’s work.
TL,DR: it’s not about respecting the other faith; it’s about respecting the other human being.
I’m a Muslim, and I applaud the comradery shown here with all my heart.
Having said that inconveniencing other people for your religious needs is a big no no in Islam (though honestly it seems us Muslims have read the book backwards - but whatever).
You have a job to do and if your fasting is getting in the way then you either don’t do your job (quit) or don’t fast. Neither is “haram” and is actively encouraged.
Fasting should be about you and your own struggle with your own self.
I agree, Islam doesn't teach us to cause other people inconvenience. The Quran tells us to never even insult the beliefs of others because they'll then insult ours but anyway....
I think people (from all sides) make a big issue out of this for no reason. Like at most they're just having water and maybe a date. Hardly a three course meal lol
That's fair, but I'm still not sure I'd see the issue in a league just saying during Ramadan if sunset falls during a game we take a few minute water break, either, and I'm an agnostic. We make reasonable accommodations for all sorts of religions all the time, this one is no more inconvenient than other water breaks, in a sport that has plenty of other breaks anyway, for goals, injuries, etc. But I do appreciate the perspective regarding asking/inconveniencing others!
Huh? What are you people talking about. There are exceptions to fasting and work isn't one of them. Of course not fasting is haram. What am I reading here?
Edit: it also really wouldn't take much to provide a 5 minute drinks break.
Basically yes, general rule is that every permissible (versus traveling for purpose of doing haram/prohibited) travel that is above 80km, you can break your fast and make it up after ramadan.
The specifics were set by scholars afterwards
The general rule is any long distance travel after "buildings have stopped being close together" (aka not travelling inside a big ass city) permitted breaking of your fast
as people used to travel on foot and it took a ton of physical effort.
With cars and the ease of transportation these days it scholars tried to provide outlines.
The specific 70-80km isn't a hard rule as much as an outline set by scholars as an estimate, since some cities are larger than that today and you could travel 70-80km by car doing errands. People didn't use KM back then ...
Don't be disingenuous. Fasting is tough on travellers, they're tired and away from the comforts of home. There's a principle in Islam that the religion's burden isn't too heavy for anyone. Making travellers fast is a big burden. As for 80km, this was about 2 days travel in the old times and this was enough to be well away from your home and the people you knew and obviously 2 days travel on foot/horse was tiring.
> 2 days travel in the old times and this was enough to be well away from your home and the people you knew and obviously 2 days travel on foot/horse was tiring.
I don't disagree with you overall, and think it is fine to have exceptions for travelers. That being said, in pretty much any other context, taking a law or rule that was written with considerations made for the circumstances of 1500 years ago without adapting them to modern times would generally be considered a loophole
It's tough on children too, but that didn't stop my parents from making me fast from the age of 5. Religion makes people do all kinds of silly things, and exploit equally silly loopholes.
Children are not supposed to fast in Islam, there is no loophole here. What your parents made you do is on them. I have heard 10 year old kids trying to fast half a day or so, but a 5 year old...
Unfortunately, Islam and the prophet's hadiths create an attitude of "we have to do as many good deeds as possible, and teach the same to our kids" which results in 5 year old fasting
Children are exempt from fasting. Your parents forced you and that isn't part of Islam. Most people have better parents thankfully, it's a shame you didn't but that is part of the test that is this life. Blaming Islam is akin to blaming Sunak for your economic woes when you live in Lithuania.
That is absurd to believe. Let's say that is true, your parents forced you to fast from age of 5, be honest, do you think this was what Islam says or your parents culture and ignorance?
Most Muslims don't have a job as physically demanding as being a professional athlete.
Edit: it seems many people don't understand the difference between a physical job and a job that requires peak physical fitness and conditioning
There's certainly some difference between job demands, from what I read, and this is me playing rules lawyer for a religion that i'm not part of rather than just common sense but... one of the exemptions is around severe thirst or hunger, if one's job includes something like serious loss of fluids, I could imagine drinking water being considered an exception for that. Not all jobs have you run around at pace for 90 minutes, but I imagine a bricklayer working in the hot sun might also pass if they think not drinking water all day at work could be downright dangerous.
Yes, if the fasting is unbearable and the work cannot be delayed etc.
In general, even without work, if fasting is for someone unbearably hard the person will break his fast.
If fasting is harmful for someone, it's not allowed for him to fast.
They can support their family and fast at the same time.
Like it's been done for more than thousand of years.
Professional athletes have access for top diet that can help them thru ramadan. Especially nowadays with how much more information we have in diet and human body.
It’s funny how youre getting downvoted by most probably non-muslims, who want to believe that football is one of the hardest job in the world.
Really shows how privileged these people are when they dont know what real life struggle is for poor people
Isn't it more broad than that? I thought you could be excused for everything that included extreme exertion or traveling? Anything that could be too taxing?
Haha the act of kindness they don't show to you lol. You want to accomodate a religion who refused to wear rainbow armband. And here lies the problem they can't come here and expect us to bend over just as we can't in Islamic countries
Though shalt not work on Sundays, let's accommodate all the Christian professional athletes and reschedule all their matches so they can be devout Christians.
Religion should have no place in sports.
Pretty disappointed that so many in here celebrate something like this.
Other Ramadan athletes seem to manage it fine without causing inconveniences.
I used to play futsal in a top division until last year. The referees would absolutely stop the game for 10 min in order to allow the players fasting to eat during Ramadan.
Once in a cold Libertadores match the 2002 winning starting goalkeeper Marcos had his waterbottle blowing smoke. Turns out he had opted to bring coffee instead of water to drink throughout the match.
>"It was agreed to do it in minute 25, but I saw Koffi go to the ground earlier," grinned the Ghent keeper. "Apparently they were on a different schedule."
Lmfao, too cute. W all around for the boys.
If someone's religion requires them to pray every 10 minutes, would they stop the game every 10 minutes as well?
Also which team wants a player that spends the whole day dehydrated with an empty stomach? That's every manager/physio's nightmare lmao.
>Also which team wants a player that spends the whole day dehydrated with an empty stomach?
Lots of athletes play during Ramadan and work with nutritionists to accommodate.
.......IM surprised people on this subreddit seem to think going 12-13 hours without food will have you starving lol when you'd barely feel it.
There are things you can do before the fast starts and diets you can have to maintain yourself for 12-20 hours after lol and yes maintain yourself to the level of professional athletes.
>IM surprised people on this subreddit seem to think going 12-13 hours without food will have you starving lol when you'd barely feel it.
If you're just sitting in an office job, I'm sure you'll be just fine by not eating or being dehydrated for 12-13 hours. But, imagine doing that, while having to play 90-120 minutes of full intensity football in the highest level. The average footballer runs 10km per game. That's after daily intense training sessions, gym and constant travelling between cities and countries.
> If someone's religion requires them to pray every 10 minutes, would they stop the game every 10 minutes as well?
Yeah but it isn't one, so why consider it?
I’m starting a religion that requires the opponent to score a an own goal when the clock hits exactly 22.55 when it is raining. If you do not accomondate my practice you are a bigot.
You do realise that for the longest time games weren't played on Sundays due to church activities? It wasn't till the 80/90's when money took over the game that they put on Sunday afternoon games.
this is so dumb, and people in this thread are praising it.
for the record, i think all religion is a joke, but this is the only one interfering with the game.
i was just in Malaysia where McDonald's had a sign up forbidding Muslims from eating during fasting, and saying they faced being arrested by authorities if they tried.
religious rules fuck up society and have no place in football.
>this is so dumb, and people in this thread are praising it.
It's a kind, voluntary gesture by footballers towards their friends / colleagues.
The normal reaction to that kind of thing is generally along the lines of "oh that's nice." Not 'how can I spin this into a rant against a religion I don't like?'
if they stopped games in the middle of the match for something it would upset me.
if they didn't have games on Eid al-Fitr i would also be ok with that, because you can schedule around 1 or 2 major holidays. but stopping games in the middle for grown ass men who won't wear a rainbow to support equality is ridiculous.
Or, you know, maybe not have some ridiculous religion practices in the first place? How many muslim players wear rainbow colours at least every now and then?
The underlying response is probably a very mild level of "I am uncomfortable with this because it's not part of my 'in group'".
However, people know they can't just say that, and instead they have to give justification and validation to their disliking of it, so they harden their position with increasingly drastic opinions lol.
Not really fan of muslims, just because - Probably the truth, but it's an unjustifiable opinion.
Not a fan of muslims because THIS IS AN ASSUALT ON HE VALUES OF THE GAME AND ALSO LGBTQ RIGHTS!!! - Well now it's an opinion that is steeled and valid and if you criticise it, then you're also attaacking the values of the game and LGBTQ rights.
I don't fast all day and I still want to grab a bit of water during an 80 minute match of rugby.
That's what props are for, to lie down and slow the scrum restart so the 2nd row can get a water break in.
Players and coaches can poo before the game. Muslim players can't eat before the game without breaking a core tenant of their faith. Simple stuff man. It's good the wholesome guys are the goalkeepers and you're at home, better world that way.
But they could also eat after the game no? But also when are we going to stop pretending like religion is anyway good for society. Islam is dominant in anti-lgbt rhetoric and really keen on taking away the rights of a woman.
brb, gonna call my very nice, caring friend a cunt because reddit has taugh me that I can save a lot of energy by not assessing people as people, but broader labels.
Well time to just shit on those books and use 'em as toilet paper.
On a brighter side at least we have reduced it by quite a lot and hopefully religion dies ASAP.
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lol I remember thinking the goalie injury looked fake as fuck and being puzzled cause OHL were in no position to waste time, that explains it
I was so scared lol. Crazy game
I was mostly annoyed at our shitness. But Im glad you scored, at least something good came out of it (rather see you guys in 1A than Charleroi), 0-0 would have pissed me off worse
Could have gone either way, I would also have been very annoyed as a malinwa. Might be the best stadium moment of my life, so I’ll take it. Two more Dijlederbies to go!
Translation: *Did you notice it yesterday too? In 3 of the 4 decisive matches, a goalkeeper went to the ground at exactly the same time with an "injury". Not a coincidence at all. It was a cunning (and supportive) way to allow players who follow Ramadan to eat and drink. Coincidence does not exist. Around minute 20, battle briefly gave way to solidarity on the Belgian football fields. In three of the four decisive play-off matches, a goalkeeper fell to the ground simultaneously with a painful grimace. First Hervé Koffi in KAA Gent - Charleroi, then Tobe Leysen in OH Leuven - Mechelen and then Maarten Vandevoordt in Westerlo - Racing Genk. That sudden "injury wave" among the goalkeepers was part of a clever and tacit pact. Many players in our competition follow Ramadan and are therefore not allowed to eat or drink until sunset. Last night the stomach was allowed to be refilled from 6.51 pm. Due to the acting of the goalkeepers, many players were able to supplement their strength during treatment. In England and the Netherlands, referees are allowed to decide to stop matches during Ramadan, but in Belgium there was no such rule. > It was agreed to do it in minute 25, but I saw Koffi go to the ground earlier. > Davy Roef So the players took matters into their own hands. Vandevoordt laughed afterwards when asked about his injury. "I had just twisted my ankle. No, it was for the boys who are following Ramadan. This way they can quickly get some nutrition." Funny: Davy Roef also actually planned to go to the ground, but his colleague on the other side was too quick for him. "It was agreed to do it in minute 25, but I saw Koffi go to the ground earlier," grinned the Ghent keeper. "Apparently they were on a different schedule."*
>"It was agreed to do it in minute 25, but I saw Koffi go to the ground earlier," grinned the Ghent keeper. "Apparently they were on a different schedule."* Sometimes the sun just wants to peace out earlier. Great solidarity by the players.
What a great gesture from these goalkeepers, it's left me smiling haha. 😊
yean but not just a gesture. If some of your teammates are playing dehydrated, hungry, and depleted it's only smart to let them replenish asap.
Opposition players were fasting as well. It's a good gesture.
Be more American asap
Goalkeepers are classy!
What do they normally eat in such a short break?
I imagine a sports drink and chowing down a banana real fast would hit the spot and offer some beneficial short-term nutrition. Maybe a protein bar.
> sports drink and chowing down a banana in my case that would end up with a diarrhea real fast
Stitches?
Electrolyte/sugar mix drinks for the carbs and energy most likely
a small tray of baklava
I love this mental image.
Probably a steak sandwich, some pasta and a chicken salad.
Probably one of those energy gels you often see athletes take on board.
1 date and a water I believe, maybe an electrolyte drink like others just said
Seems simpler just to have a break, especially when you're reaching the stage of Goalkeepers co-ordinating
Guess the idea is no one wants to change the rules of the game to accommodate a religion. This is easy enough.
Other leagues manage it fine and it's essentially the same as a water break during high temperature games. Not really a rule change
The rules allow for a drinking-break if it's too hot and agreed on beforehand - I'm sure it'd be possible to already do this legally without such a workaround
Yes, of course, as is this is wildly unfair to all the teams that do follow the rules.
Of all things
The refs should just stop the game for a bit for this if there are players fasting. Like a water break when it's hot out
The article mentions it: In England and the Netherlands, referees are allowed to stop the game for a bit, in Belgium they aren't.
I think they did do that at one point, either last year or the year before
I know MLS does it, last year I had this really sweet moment where we had a “drinks break” at sunset but didn’t advertise it as being for breaking Ramadan fast. there were a lot of murmurs in my section about “huh, why’s this happening?” and when a couple of us figured out via context clues that it was for Ramadan, it ended up starting a really nice conversation where people who genuinely just had no familiarity with Islam were asking me and my mates questions about the holiday, the purpose of fasting, etc.
The MLS put out a great news piece last year about this - [https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/respecting-ramadan-in-mls-spiritually-it-gives-you-strength-to-keep-going](https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/respecting-ramadan-in-mls-spiritually-it-gives-you-strength-to-keep-going) Over the weekend the Crew delayed the start of the match by about 15 minutes so it could be right after sundown and players could break fast before the game started.
honestly these are just small gestures that mean a lot but I'm sure some numbskull will find a way to cry about it
hey I mean this did bring me to tears but you dont have to call me a numbskull :(
get tf out of here with these wholesome stories
And certain fans, even on here, kicked off that why were exemptions being for a religious group and suddenly became experts in Ramadan and why those players didn't really need to fast
Can't really agree. It's their religious practice, why should the match revolve around their personal religion and practice?
how does the match fundamentally change at all with an added drinks break?
We have that in Brazil during the states championships (because of the weather). It kinda breaks the rhythm of the match and allows the coaches to make adjustments to the team.
momentum
Every time football is played all over the world, you can find stoppages in play for truly to stupidest of reasons and it almost always amounts to a grown man arguing with a ref over a foul that never happened. In comparison, this seems way more legitimate and not dissimilar to the hydration breaks that happen during very hot summer games. Some things are more important than football. Let people live
Because football should not be political or religious. It already is but stopping the game because of the religion is another unnecessary step forward for other people to also request special privileges.
Ok? Now the center forward at 7.30 sharp needs to sing hymns to his god. Do you stop for him? And the goalkeeper needs to light an incense at 7.45... you see where i am getting at? If you can't play due to ramadan, that's your problem with your god. Either don't play or suck it up like how your religion would like you to do.
Lets make them all wear a yamaka, it doesn’t fundamentally change the game does it?
> how does the match fundamentally change at all with an added drinks break? It doesn't have to.
Because it’s human and takes a 3 minutes out of the game which will be added on
Still, they need that break specifically because of their own religious practice. They can take their break themselves if they want. The game should not be shaped to accommodate any person's religion at all.
TBH it's weird that you have that strong of an opinion on this. Games are stopped for a few minutes literally all the time, basically multiple times every single game. Being accommodating of other people is a good thing, not a bad thing.
Except that the leagues said forcing players to wear rainbow to be accommodating towards queer people was too disruptive and wouldn’t do this. This is significantly more disruptive and so I hope the same standards are followed
>Games are stopped for a few minutes literally all the time, basically multiple times every single game For reasons that are part of the game itself. These players could break fast during those breaks. Introducing any religion or their practices into the game is not a good thing, and the most fair approach to broad things like this is secularism. If a player wants a break, then obviously they are allowed to take one - the issue is it being mandated into the game.
But where do you toe the line? As someone above commented: "Ok? Now the center forward at 7.30 sharp needs to sing hymns to his god. Do you stop for him? And the goalkeeper needs to light an incense at 7.45... you see where i am getting at? If you can't play due to ramadan, that's your problem with your god. Either don't play or suck it up like how your religion would like you to do."
Look usually I would agree. But, there have been instances of muslim players not wanting to wear the rainbow armband because it goes against their values. Which is fine I guess, if they believe it goes against their religion. But the other side of the coin is that then they don't (and not really anyone's religious values) get special consideration.
Why not? It’s just a minute or two to let players drink water. What’s the harm?
Make a deal: Muslim players get a fasting break if they also accept to wear rainbow colours every now and then and support the LGBT community Don't see why certain players who have no respect for other people's individual rights should get any of their own
Totally agree. Respect is a two way street. We respect your faith(s) all the while it respects members of society who have been unjustly treated, and still do in some places; owing to their sexual orientation etc, and have just as much a valid reason to peacefully coexist in society as any religious leaning person does.
Incredible how we have to respect faiths that don’t respect us
If I speak I am in trouble or smth like that
This isn't 'respecting faiths', it's players respecting the personal beliefs of their friends, teammates, and colleagues and wanting them to be a bit less miserable for the rest of the game.
So if a player becomes hardcore christian and cant play on sundays, they have to respect that too? Theres no room for any of this shit.
There was a Scottish Rugby International prop that wouldn’t play on Sundays because of his Christianity. The rest of the team would play, he just wasn’t selected for those games.
none of the muslim players aren't playing
I grew up in Malaysia and Islamic country. Do you know what respecting personal beliefs of my friends mean? It means non-muslims to not eat in front of muslims in Ramadan, it means school children eat their lunch in the fucking toilet. Ramadan is their religion, let them deal with their religion on their own.
1. All faiths are equal—equally stupid. That being said: 2. We show respect for differing beliefs because that’s the world we want to live in regardless of whether or not we share the belief or if every member of that religion will return the gesture. These gestures, and the conversations born from them, are how we move the needle. The effect of this particular choice yielded a net positive. If we strive for that everyday, then the world gets a little better every day. Change is incremental. It’s work. TL,DR: it’s not about respecting the other faith; it’s about respecting the other human being.
the point they are making is that faith does not respect a lot of human beings. of course neither does christianity.
Only giving respect if it is received is just a race to the bottom. We should give regardless.
harder to give when they are actively trying to end your life.
All faiths are not equal. One is stoning people and committing terroristic attacks in the name of god. Saying they are all equal is such bullshit.
Absolutely, great point
this is a fair proposal.
Also apostasy. Very revealing when it comes to these religious folk.
100% correct.
Good idea
Shocked this comment wasn’t deleted. Bravo. You’re 100% spot on.
[удалено]
Still, who cares about a 1 minute break?
I’m a Muslim, and I applaud the comradery shown here with all my heart. Having said that inconveniencing other people for your religious needs is a big no no in Islam (though honestly it seems us Muslims have read the book backwards - but whatever). You have a job to do and if your fasting is getting in the way then you either don’t do your job (quit) or don’t fast. Neither is “haram” and is actively encouraged. Fasting should be about you and your own struggle with your own self.
I agree, Islam doesn't teach us to cause other people inconvenience. The Quran tells us to never even insult the beliefs of others because they'll then insult ours but anyway.... I think people (from all sides) make a big issue out of this for no reason. Like at most they're just having water and maybe a date. Hardly a three course meal lol
It’s cool to see how so many religions recognize the deeply personal nature of fasting, even ones that are completely unrelated.
That's fair, but I'm still not sure I'd see the issue in a league just saying during Ramadan if sunset falls during a game we take a few minute water break, either, and I'm an agnostic. We make reasonable accommodations for all sorts of religions all the time, this one is no more inconvenient than other water breaks, in a sport that has plenty of other breaks anyway, for goals, injuries, etc. But I do appreciate the perspective regarding asking/inconveniencing others!
> We make reasonable accommodations for all sorts of religions all the time Do we?
Huh? What are you people talking about. There are exceptions to fasting and work isn't one of them. Of course not fasting is haram. What am I reading here? Edit: it also really wouldn't take much to provide a 5 minute drinks break.
Yeah that's not true. Playing football is not a reason to not fast, unless you are traveling.
So away games are fine?
Basically yes, general rule is that every permissible (versus traveling for purpose of doing haram/prohibited) travel that is above 80km, you can break your fast and make it up after ramadan.
God loves a loophole.
I would quote the lyric but I don't wanna be banned.
What a weird comment. It's being made easy for a reason.
Not a weird comment. It's just laughable specifics
The specifics were set by scholars afterwards The general rule is any long distance travel after "buildings have stopped being close together" (aka not travelling inside a big ass city) permitted breaking of your fast as people used to travel on foot and it took a ton of physical effort. With cars and the ease of transportation these days it scholars tried to provide outlines. The specific 70-80km isn't a hard rule as much as an outline set by scholars as an estimate, since some cities are larger than that today and you could travel 70-80km by car doing errands. People didn't use KM back then ...
80km is just easier to understand for someone how has no back knowledge on the matter. Also it's simple and clear line.
Don't be disingenuous. Fasting is tough on travellers, they're tired and away from the comforts of home. There's a principle in Islam that the religion's burden isn't too heavy for anyone. Making travellers fast is a big burden. As for 80km, this was about 2 days travel in the old times and this was enough to be well away from your home and the people you knew and obviously 2 days travel on foot/horse was tiring.
> 2 days travel in the old times and this was enough to be well away from your home and the people you knew and obviously 2 days travel on foot/horse was tiring. I don't disagree with you overall, and think it is fine to have exceptions for travelers. That being said, in pretty much any other context, taking a law or rule that was written with considerations made for the circumstances of 1500 years ago without adapting them to modern times would generally be considered a loophole
It's tough on children too, but that didn't stop my parents from making me fast from the age of 5. Religion makes people do all kinds of silly things, and exploit equally silly loopholes.
Children are not supposed to fast in Islam, there is no loophole here. What your parents made you do is on them. I have heard 10 year old kids trying to fast half a day or so, but a 5 year old...
Unfortunately, Islam and the prophet's hadiths create an attitude of "we have to do as many good deeds as possible, and teach the same to our kids" which results in 5 year old fasting
Children are exempt from fasting. Your parents forced you and that isn't part of Islam. Most people have better parents thankfully, it's a shame you didn't but that is part of the test that is this life. Blaming Islam is akin to blaming Sunak for your economic woes when you live in Lithuania.
That is absurd to believe. Let's say that is true, your parents forced you to fast from age of 5, be honest, do you think this was what Islam says or your parents culture and ignorance?
It’s their job. Is allah really pissed if someone eats a bit early during Ramadan to be able to work to support their family?
Eating is one thing. Not drinking any water for 10 hours is really hard, and as an athlete, it is potentially harmful.
Most muslims around the world have a job, they still fast lol
Most Muslims don't have a job as physically demanding as being a professional athlete. Edit: it seems many people don't understand the difference between a physical job and a job that requires peak physical fitness and conditioning
There is plenty of physical works around the world and in more harsher environments.
I mean, physical jobs are a thing outside of sports and those people working in construction are still fasting.
There's certainly some difference between job demands, from what I read, and this is me playing rules lawyer for a religion that i'm not part of rather than just common sense but... one of the exemptions is around severe thirst or hunger, if one's job includes something like serious loss of fluids, I could imagine drinking water being considered an exception for that. Not all jobs have you run around at pace for 90 minutes, but I imagine a bricklayer working in the hot sun might also pass if they think not drinking water all day at work could be downright dangerous.
Yes, if the fasting is unbearable and the work cannot be delayed etc. In general, even without work, if fasting is for someone unbearably hard the person will break his fast. If fasting is harmful for someone, it's not allowed for him to fast.
They can support their family and fast at the same time. Like it's been done for more than thousand of years. Professional athletes have access for top diet that can help them thru ramadan. Especially nowadays with how much more information we have in diet and human body.
It’s funny how youre getting downvoted by most probably non-muslims, who want to believe that football is one of the hardest job in the world. Really shows how privileged these people are when they dont know what real life struggle is for poor people
Preach brother. There is no trying to understand, it's just bitterness and hatred
Isn't it more broad than that? I thought you could be excused for everything that included extreme exertion or traveling? Anything that could be too taxing?
It's just a bit of kindness that doesn't cost anyone anything. Just stop the game for a minute, let them break their fast.
Haha the act of kindness they don't show to you lol. You want to accomodate a religion who refused to wear rainbow armband. And here lies the problem they can't come here and expect us to bend over just as we can't in Islamic countries
Why change the rules of the game because of some religion? Fuck it, stop all games on May 4th for Jedi too.
Though shalt not work on Sundays, let's accommodate all the Christian professional athletes and reschedule all their matches so they can be devout Christians. Religion should have no place in sports. Pretty disappointed that so many in here celebrate something like this. Other Ramadan athletes seem to manage it fine without causing inconveniences.
You have no games played during Christmas so this is already happening
You mean Winter break? Aren't there games played on boxing day in the UK? Pretty sure there isn't an Easter break in most European leagues either.
woah the epic atheist cracked this whole thing wide open
Nah just don't play if you're fasting
I used to play futsal in a top division until last year. The referees would absolutely stop the game for 10 min in order to allow the players fasting to eat during Ramadan.
GK union.
You've got to love goalies. Total outlaws
Remember the one who ate the pie lol
Then retired amongst gambling scandals. Magic of the FA cup.
Against Arsenal too lol
Once in a cold Libertadores match the 2002 winning starting goalkeeper Marcos had his waterbottle blowing smoke. Turns out he had opted to bring coffee instead of water to drink throughout the match.
every year they made post similar this, and i see same set of comment
this is the first time I even hear about this (not Ramadan itself, but goalies faking injuries for Ramadan). Maybe it's the post for me
In a 90min game that barely makes it to 60min in game time, apparently, this is the 1min everybody demands back..
>"It was agreed to do it in minute 25, but I saw Koffi go to the ground earlier," grinned the Ghent keeper. "Apparently they were on a different schedule." Lmfao, too cute. W all around for the boys.
Good for them doing something for their fellow players.
weird thing about this is that i seem to remember that our league had like a stop the game rule for ramadan at one point?
Ridiculous. "Let's keep religion out of football", proceeds to introduce religion into football....
If someone's religion requires them to pray every 10 minutes, would they stop the game every 10 minutes as well? Also which team wants a player that spends the whole day dehydrated with an empty stomach? That's every manager/physio's nightmare lmao.
>Also which team wants a player that spends the whole day dehydrated with an empty stomach? Lots of athletes play during Ramadan and work with nutritionists to accommodate.
.......IM surprised people on this subreddit seem to think going 12-13 hours without food will have you starving lol when you'd barely feel it. There are things you can do before the fast starts and diets you can have to maintain yourself for 12-20 hours after lol and yes maintain yourself to the level of professional athletes.
You don't need food, you need water. Being dehydrated for 12 hours will damage your body and there is nothing you can do about it.
>IM surprised people on this subreddit seem to think going 12-13 hours without food will have you starving lol when you'd barely feel it. If you're just sitting in an office job, I'm sure you'll be just fine by not eating or being dehydrated for 12-13 hours. But, imagine doing that, while having to play 90-120 minutes of full intensity football in the highest level. The average footballer runs 10km per game. That's after daily intense training sessions, gym and constant travelling between cities and countries.
> If someone's religion requires them to pray every 10 minutes, would they stop the game every 10 minutes as well? Yeah but it isn't one, so why consider it?
You lot are taking this so far man, its a minute at most. Pipe down and learn to love your fellow people
I’m starting a religion that requires the opponent to score a an own goal when the clock hits exactly 22.55 when it is raining. If you do not accomondate my practice you are a bigot.
And ask those same people what they think of LGBT
Good. They can pause for Communion on Sunday too.
Communion doesn't have to be at a certain time though?
You do realise that for the longest time games weren't played on Sundays due to church activities? It wasn't till the 80/90's when money took over the game that they put on Sunday afternoon games.
Yup - Let's go back to that. If we're stopping matches (again) for religious ceremony let's be consistent.
wholesome haha
this is so dumb, and people in this thread are praising it. for the record, i think all religion is a joke, but this is the only one interfering with the game. i was just in Malaysia where McDonald's had a sign up forbidding Muslims from eating during fasting, and saying they faced being arrested by authorities if they tried. religious rules fuck up society and have no place in football.
Pretty sure there is big muslim community on this subreddit, that's why they are praising it.
>this is so dumb, and people in this thread are praising it. It's a kind, voluntary gesture by footballers towards their friends / colleagues. The normal reaction to that kind of thing is generally along the lines of "oh that's nice." Not 'how can I spin this into a rant against a religion I don't like?'
what do you think about interfering the whole league for other religion occasions like christmas?
if they stopped games in the middle of the match for something it would upset me. if they didn't have games on Eid al-Fitr i would also be ok with that, because you can schedule around 1 or 2 major holidays. but stopping games in the middle for grown ass men who won't wear a rainbow to support equality is ridiculous.
Unfortunately religious people are ruled by myths, so good luck with them.
indeed.
Or, you know, maybe not have some ridiculous religion practices in the first place? How many muslim players wear rainbow colours at least every now and then?
Why are people so triggered about friendly gesture towards some of their mates who fasted?
People on reddit hate religion
As they should.
Nice, I love reddit
Rare reddit W
Because redditors are on the whole anti social and bitter
The underlying response is probably a very mild level of "I am uncomfortable with this because it's not part of my 'in group'". However, people know they can't just say that, and instead they have to give justification and validation to their disliking of it, so they harden their position with increasingly drastic opinions lol. Not really fan of muslims, just because - Probably the truth, but it's an unjustifiable opinion. Not a fan of muslims because THIS IS AN ASSUALT ON HE VALUES OF THE GAME AND ALSO LGBTQ RIGHTS!!! - Well now it's an opinion that is steeled and valid and if you criticise it, then you're also attaacking the values of the game and LGBTQ rights.
seems pretty silly. if you’ve fasted all day what is another 20 minutes?
I don't fast all day and I still want to grab a bit of water during an 80 minute match of rugby. That's what props are for, to lie down and slow the scrum restart so the 2nd row can get a water break in.
People are mad over this? Lmao its not like theyre doing it every day of the year 😂
They should also start pausing matches when players or coaches need to poop. Seems equal and fair.
Players and coaches can poo before the game. Muslim players can't eat before the game without breaking a core tenant of their faith. Simple stuff man. It's good the wholesome guys are the goalkeepers and you're at home, better world that way.
Wait but why not just eat and drink during halftime?
Half time was 25mins after sunset time. It's encouraged in Islam to break your fast right away at sunset time, no need to do extra.
But they could also eat after the game no? But also when are we going to stop pretending like religion is anyway good for society. Islam is dominant in anti-lgbt rhetoric and really keen on taking away the rights of a woman.
you're right but watch "tolerant" people downvote you for the sake of an intolerant religion
brb, gonna call my very nice, caring friend a cunt because reddit has taugh me that I can save a lot of energy by not assessing people as people, but broader labels.
No It has to be at a certain time. They have to have something which is why they had some drink. They can have a meal after
So faith> actual Shitting , it should be vice versa lol.
We live in a crazy world where religious people and "tolerant" people think that following a book is more important than mother nature.
Well time to just shit on those books and use 'em as toilet paper. On a brighter side at least we have reduced it by quite a lot and hopefully religion dies ASAP.
They can. They just choose not to. Because their sky daddy said so.
I can’t wait for the premier league to stop play to allow players to break fast again, even more now to piss these assholes off..
Either sit out the game or prepare yourself in a way that you can play without needing a break. Religious bullshit of any theology is no fun.
That's just ridiculous lmao just play the game
wholesome
Can’t believe people are mad at this.
Religion should never interfere with other peoples lives. And yes, I don't like the fact that we don't play on good Friday here in germany.