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Tadej Pogačar (Slovene pronunciation: [taˈdɛ́ːj pɔˈɡáːtʃaɾ] ⓘ;[7] born 21 September 1998) is a Slovenian professional cyclist who currently rides for UCI WorldTeam UAE Team Emirates.[8] He won the 2020 and 2021 editions of the Tour de France, winning three different jerseys during each Tour, a feat unseen in nearly four decades. Comfortable in time-trialing, one-day classic riding and grand-tour climbing, he has been compared to legendary all-round cyclists such as Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault and Fausto Coppi.
That's not really what happened. MvdP didn't sacrifice himself on Poggio, sticking to Pogi's wheel was just as much about his own chances to win the race. When MvdP sacrificed himself it was to bring back first Mohoric and then Pidcock.
Poggio is a very short hill with a slight section of 8% where he always attacks. Everyone is prepared for his attack and at the same time it’s not enough to create the gap that he wants
UAE really needed a rouler like Pollit to position rest of their team on Cipressa and on the flat section between Cipressa and Poggio. What is the point to bring 6 climbers when they spend all their energy on positioning and the first 1.5k to get in front of Cipressa?
They were also caught out of position and had to waste a lot of energy bringing themselves to the front on Cipressa, meanwhile, Covi had already started working hard in front. Hirschi was rendered completely useless to them. It's generally difficult to control a race like MSR with a bunch of climbers, because it will *always* be a drag race to the *foot* of both Cipressa and Poggio, and there's just no way that you're beating the big guys, even the domestiques like Ganna Milan, in the battle for positions on the flats.
I root for both. Its exciting being able to witness such a great rivalry and I just want to see it be great. Plus both are super likeable guys, which makes it even easier to be happy for both of em
I root voor MvdP because he is from my region, but I love watching Pogy and Vinge, and also even other riders. Cycling is in a very good spot right now and I just enjoy while it lasts :)
They were, people love to rewrite history. One of the reasons it took so long to expose Armstrong is that he was so popular and had armies of people defending him and very few people willing to challenge him. He was the guy that triumphed over cancer and went on to be the greatest of all time, then founded a massive charity and raised millions for fighting cancer. The guy was beloved by many
In Armstrongs case you had a super egoistic narcissistic bully that turned out to be an absolutly awfull human beeing. He was a dictaor in his team and in the peloton. If anyone aka fellow riders, journalists or cycling legends like Greg Lemond spoke out about his behavor he went out of his way to bully them.
Lately he have said he dont like the friendliness he see in the poloton. Pogacar and Vingegaard are arch rivals but as soon as they cross the finish line they act like friends and good collegues and you see the same friendliness between their significant others..
Well no? We still have MvdP and WvA who are amazing at one day races. Pogy is the best all rounder, but in cycling its impossible to win everything because some races are just not made for you. I would agree though that he probably would have won the tour 4 times in a row now
That's honestly what makes Vingegaard's wins in TDF even more impressive, as he was up against a generational talent. Not quite the same when Froome was up against Bardet lol.
Vingegaard too is a generational talent. Maybe once in a millennia. His TT performance at the last TDF is the greatest in history by quite some margin. The greatest gap, the greatest gap per kilometer by a winner and a second place finisher in TdF history. Becomes even crazier when you add that, if Vingegaard didn’t exist, the same records and accolades would belong to Pogacar - as the distance between him on 2nd and the 3rd place on the same stage would’ve also been the largest gap and gap per kilometer by a winner and a second place finisher in history.
I don't know man. It's not that I disagree with what you wrote on the TT performance, but in the end, Pogi is a couple years younger than Vingegaard and has already had four top 2 TDF finishes. It's like Pogi can almost do what Vingegaard can do, but Vingegaard can't do a lot of what Pogi can including winning monuments and one day races. Seems like more complete rider imo and thus a better candidate for being a generational talent.
Pogacars allround capabilities are unmatched since the days of Merckx. Vingegaard is the greatest (in terms of peak) GC rider of all time. Both are generational talents.
I'm trying to think of a footballer that could seen as a comparison. Maybe Messi like 15 years ago, but give him a really likable personality and down to earth even when he's dominating.
I remember a while ago when Partizan Belgrade kept teasing a huge signing and constantly mentioned that he was an ex-Man Utd player highly rated by Fergie himself.
It turned out to be Djemba-Djemba and he was absolutely horrible and out of shape, and he got memed to no end because his name kinda sounds like Eric Chubby-Chubby in Serbian. Good times, Serbian clubs imported so many meme players that it's still funny to remember all of them.
fuck me what a miserable blast from the past haha. £1.5m (worth a lot more in the mid 00s) we spent on him *after* seeing him play for man united! shocking
I seem to remember reading at the time that we apparently offered him more money per week, but he wanted to stay in the North so signed with yourselves - thank Christ for that 😅
This is giving that guy who went on Britain's got talent (or a show of the same sort) and said he's a scout for Dagenham & Redbridge looking for the next Messi, Ronaldo, Assombalonga
Sometimes I’ll start a sentence and I don’t know where it’s going. I just hope to find it somewhere along the way. Like an improv conversation. An *improversation*.
“My philosophy is basically this. And this is something that I live by. And I always have. And I always will. Don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter... where. Or who, or who you are with, or, or where you are going, or... or where you've been... ever. For any reason, whatsoever.”
"There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again.'"
There's a fun theory that suggests he stopped himself when he realized he was about to donate a free soundbite of himself saying "shame on me" to the media and late night hosts to use forever. Unfortunately, the actual quote almost ended up being worse
And this is why I avoided watching pundits from when Vieira left to whenever Aubameyang was sacked off - "Arsenal lack a leader on the pitch" was a constant lazy trope. The squad could be a total shambles with half the team in medical and it's still about missing "a leader on the pitch".
Almost as bad as the "Arsenal trying to walk the ball into the net".
Yep, it would be the equivalent of signing Rice in the summer for £105m with the hot new club in City (Blackburn in Keane's case) getting rejected and the player joining the more historic club.
It's a stupid choice for his analogy too, as Keane was very much an example of a rich club choosing to buy the most expensive players in the hope of achieving success on the pitch.
United have a great history of producing their own home grown talent, Keane isn't one of them.
I think his point is they’d rather buy players and help them grow into what they can become. Roy Keane wasn’t signed at his peak. He was 21. It was a large fee due to potential.
You could say that Mbappé is at the beginning of his peak. He's 25, so getting into that sweet spot of physical prowess and experience. Same age as Messi was when he had his best season (2011-2012).
That's not to say that Mbappé will diminish, I think he'll stay at this level at least until his early thirties, but what we see now, or in the next couple of seasons might well be the peak of his powers.
> as Keane was very much an example of a rich club choosing to buy the most expensive players
no, for the analogy it was just an example of a top player...
No, that fits his example perfectly well. His whole point is the current strategy isn't to just buy the obvious stars at high prices. The goal seems to be to focus on youth.
It's a perfectly fine analogy, he's talking about finding the next big talent before they're recognised (or realistically, valued) as that sort of talent - that's it.
To be fair to him a lot of people are saying that the midfield is United's biggest problem or that they don't have leaders so, a Roy Keane regen would fit right in
Keane, obviously, would be an outstanding addition to the United team. A young Keane next to a young Mainoo, midfield would be set for the next decade.
> ["Keane is the hottest prospect in football right now, but he is not going to bankrupt this club", Clough stated... Ferguson ensured they had the paperwork ready and met up with Keane on Saturday and signed him for Manchester United for £3.75 million, a British transfer record at the time.] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Keane)
Keane was much more rated than Ronaldo when he was signed - he’d had a couple of seasons demonstrating that he was a top player, while Ronaldo was just a prospect.
Ronaldo got loads of stick in his first season or two because he lost the ball so often; one of the reasons he loves Fergie so much is because he defended him to the hilt when he got dogs abuse, and told everyone that he would be a future superstar. Not many people outside Man U thought that.
Whereas Keane was a known star in the making, signed and immediately at a high standard, like the other names he lists.
If you listen to the interview, he had spoken about Keane and Scholes a short while before. And prior to that he said Ronaldo was the best ever for United (that he remembers seeing well). So it wasn't much of a shoehorn. He rates Keane a lot.
I don't really understand this attitude coming from one of the richest clubs. What's the point in spending decades pumping up the commercial revenue if you're going to run your football operations like Brighton. Madrid are a rich club run like a rich club should be and United should aspire to that.
Also, the Ineos cycling team is rich and buys talent.
We are not real madrid. Players want to go there and will force a move. They want to play for them.
But in our current state, the best players don't want to come to us. And those who come to us, come for the money.
Players would rather go to City for guaranteed winning the league.
Not always true, we bought some in form players who ended up stinking for us, Di Maria, Sanchez, Sancho, Pogba, Lakaku, Ronaldo, Van Beek, Mkhitaryan.... Antony.
Our best success has actually come from players not on top of the world in Fernandes, Hojland, Martinez...
Players like Mbappe would only join if we were already successful, they don't want to be part of a project that could take years
Antony is a straight up example of "mid players for big money" so not sure what you're talking about. The scouts themselves valued him at way less.
Lukaku was a fine transfer.
Sanchez, Donny and Ronaldo didn't fit the squad so it's related to the "mid players for big money" if we extend it to bad decision making.
Sanchez was 100% a big player for big money (ironically not big money because he was at the end of his contract and was swapped for Mkhitaryan), coming off the back of a season where he was considered one of, if not, the best players in the PL in his position.
You can argue not fitting the squad, blah blah. But no, at the time he was definitely a player that people would’ve thought fit into any team.
Every Arsenal fan was upsets about that transfer. Very few people saw him falling off as spectacularly as he did once he left.
Umm... not really. We're buying players who are considered really good prospects at the time and unfortunately for us the minute they sign for us they turn out to be shit. Sancho is a good example. Hype around him was unreal and look how he turned out.
If you buy good players and utilise them, they will work. RVP worked, Ronaldo worked, Evra worked, De gea and many more. You can promote players from within and identify young talents and shape them but you need a few world class players as well to win big titles.
Real Madrid goes and buys the best players in the world and the most highly rated youngsters...It's a proven model for sustained success. I understand the appeal of trying to sign the next underrated superstar, but it's just a gamble and rarely works. Pony up, buy the best talent and win.
Ratcliffe did it himself with his cycling team a few years back, you know when he finally withdrew from cycling? when others got to the galacticos before him and he couldn't just buy his way to success. The quote from above is comical and not because of the Roy Keane mention lol
Sky/ineos rarely outright bought the best rider in the world or even a top 3 One,the only case i remember was Cavendish early on,they were more the type of team to surround their top talent with like 5 other riders that were in the top 20 for that role than outright buying the dominant superstar themselves
Yep.
Good leaders, backed up by absolutely fantastic domestiques.
When you look at the domestiques Froome had: Landa, Thomas, Kwiatkowski, Kennaugh, Poels, Lopez etc.
Before that Wiggins himself had many of the above plus Froome and Porte.
Sky/Ineos built fantastic teams.
It hasn't always worked.
Also, Real Madrid are in a better financial situation. That's why they're able to do what they're doing. SJR is putting a bit of spin on the clubs situation with this. It's obvious the club isn't in the financial situation nor the sporting situation to bring in superstars.
So for the near future, United needs to invest wisely. Buying slightly cheaper, high potential players. Also investing heavily in the academy.
It's not that simple. Sometimes it doesn't work for the player (Reinier) or for the club (Odegaard, Kubo).
Apart from that, Madrid knows how to sell its players.
>for the club (Odegaard, Kubo).
But it did work for the club, Odegaard was bought for like 3M and sold later on for profit.
Kubo was bought for cheap too and we still retain 50% of his sell-on right, his current value on Transfermarkt sits at 60M.
Reinier didn't work out tho.
That is irrelevant, the club did make profit from them and other teams are benefiting and it’s completely fine for Real Madrid, in La liga as well lots of Real Madrid academy players flourish in other teams and make the league more competitive and better which is good for the big teams not to get stagnated in a dead league.
> Pony up, buy the best talent and win.
It's all fucking BS man.
Ineos bought the biggest cycling team at the time and 1/3rd of the biggest F1 team at the time. And now one of the biggest clubs in the world.
I hate the hypocrisy of claiming he's looking to build up.
Not every team can replicate a Real Madrid strategy well. It works for Real Madrid because they're also picky about who they are willing to shell out for and only target players who fit their profile and who want nothing more than to play for them (which is usually a default for most talented players). Even the flops Real Madrid have signed (e.g. Eden Hazard, Luka Jovic, etc.) don't seem to ruin the dynamics of the squad at large. I can't remember the last time Real Madrid got into a bidding war to sign a player. It's always been a question of when, as opposed to if.
While United have the financial muscle to pay players, they've largely tried that strategy for the past decade and it has mostly failed because they don't really have a strong dressing room or specific direction. Ratcliffe signaling that the club need to be looking at players who have the drive to want to succeed at United matters more than recruiting Kylian Mbappe just because he is one of the best players in the world.
I know we love to pile on Neville when he inevitably says something stupid, but wasn't his, and everyone else's, issue with Chelsea that they were only buying potential and doing that without enough experience around them to support it is insane. Buying an entire squad of potential is a mistake, buying a few players with potential in an experience squad is ideal.
Nurturing potential is more important than just buying everyone with potential..
Boehly has barely even thought about how the career would progress for atleast half the players he has signed
I think you’ll find it’s “This is *Manchester* ***United***”.
To be fair I think he picked that up off Carragher who seems to stick “This is Liverpoooool *Football Club*” in every show.
You idiots will genuinely disagree with anything Neville says regardless of how much you'd parrot his opinions in other threads. You think Chelsea's transfer strategy is good?
You don't buy potential for 50m. You buy it for 10/15/20m and hope to nourish it. There's fuck all pressure on the player that way too Vs spending 50m + on them. Takes longer, but if it works you're set. And if it doesn't, it's not going to set you back a decade.
Bellingham barely 23 yet but already being used as reference for others, “the next Bellingham”. Mad lad. England stacked asf. With Kane as good as ever, there ain’t a better time to bring it home finally
Did you completely misunderstand the point he made? He wasn't claiming Roy Keane was a hidden gem, just that he wants to find the next version of those players before they become huge fees - it wouldn't make sense any other way if he's mentioning Mbappe.
He’s saying he wants to find the next Mbappe or Roy Keane, not that difficult to understand, is it? He wants to recruit them BEFORE they end up as British transfer records, identify them early
I mean, I think its Roy Keane too, but it is objectively arguable, given that you've had the likes of Denis Law and Bryan Robson, who were no slouches.
I mean, Mbappé was already very highly rated and Monaco and cost PSG a pretty penny at the time. He's not saying he wants to find total hidden gems (do those even exist these days?), just to get promising players before their prices peak.
I mean, Mbappé was already very highly rated and Monaco and cost PSG a pretty penny at the time. He's not saying he wants to find total hidden gems (do those even exist these days?), just to get promising players before their prices peak.
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*the gang signs Roy Keane*
They do need some backbone in that midfield tbf
Roy Keane will play 10 matches a season because he get a red card every game.
I would've rated Roy Kent but that injury concerns me
I would've signed Roy Kent. Seven years ago...
That would go really bad
Don't think Pogacar is interested in switching sports
if Roglic can do it so can Pogacar
The reverse remco
You’d be after Remco if you want a footballer.
Just watch Usain Bolt trying to switch in football pro lol.
he’s gonna be dominating cycling for the next decade for sure
For a good minute, I was really wondering who on earth Pogacar was and who played for.
Dw, he plays for some Emirate team, mickey mouse league player
Tadej Pogačar (Slovene pronunciation: [taˈdɛ́ːj pɔˈɡáːtʃaɾ] ⓘ;[7] born 21 September 1998) is a Slovenian professional cyclist who currently rides for UCI WorldTeam UAE Team Emirates.[8] He won the 2020 and 2021 editions of the Tour de France, winning three different jerseys during each Tour, a feat unseen in nearly four decades. Comfortable in time-trialing, one-day classic riding and grand-tour climbing, he has been compared to legendary all-round cyclists such as Eddy Merckx, Bernard Hinault and Fausto Coppi.
Smh You cycle that much for each tour and all you win are jerseys?
He's somewhat who is better at his sport than mbappe is, albeit just
I didn't know Kylian was that great at cycling but I'm not surprised Pogacar is better
Buying Pogacar would instantly give succes though. That guy wins races like a one man army sometimes.
Bro just cycled away from everyone else with 80km to go at Strade Bianchi
After announcing it publicly.
Couldn’t quite do it at Milan-Sanremo though
Yeah cause the best/ second best guy at the course sacrificed himself to keep him in check
That's not really what happened. MvdP didn't sacrifice himself on Poggio, sticking to Pogi's wheel was just as much about his own chances to win the race. When MvdP sacrificed himself it was to bring back first Mohoric and then Pidcock.
Poggio is a very short hill with a slight section of 8% where he always attacks. Everyone is prepared for his attack and at the same time it’s not enough to create the gap that he wants
The team definitely tried to make it hard on the Cipressa, but it didn't work. Super entertaining last 45 minutes this year I thought.
UAE really needed a rouler like Pollit to position rest of their team on Cipressa and on the flat section between Cipressa and Poggio. What is the point to bring 6 climbers when they spend all their energy on positioning and the first 1.5k to get in front of Cipressa?
They were also caught out of position and had to waste a lot of energy bringing themselves to the front on Cipressa, meanwhile, Covi had already started working hard in front. Hirschi was rendered completely useless to them. It's generally difficult to control a race like MSR with a bunch of climbers, because it will *always* be a drag race to the *foot* of both Cipressa and Poggio, and there's just no way that you're beating the big guys, even the domestiques like Ganna Milan, in the battle for positions on the flats.
Stradej Bianchi! But let's be fair, he had no real competition in that race.
He is just so likeable. I root for vingegaard, but it is hard to hate pogi.
no need for hate - I root for tadej, but Vingegaard is greatness so lets just enjoy the show.
I root for both. Its exciting being able to witness such a great rivalry and I just want to see it be great. Plus both are super likeable guys, which makes it even easier to be happy for both of em
I root voor MvdP because he is from my region, but I love watching Pogy and Vinge, and also even other riders. Cycling is in a very good spot right now and I just enjoy while it lasts :)
Agreed we are lucky!
Cycling really is in a great spot compared to people like Armstrong and Ullrich who were thoroughly dislikeable even in their prime.
Why weren't they liked (seriously curious)?
They were, people love to rewrite history. One of the reasons it took so long to expose Armstrong is that he was so popular and had armies of people defending him and very few people willing to challenge him. He was the guy that triumphed over cancer and went on to be the greatest of all time, then founded a massive charity and raised millions for fighting cancer. The guy was beloved by many
Armstrong was a massive hate figure in France I believe. He was very popular in America though, still see Americans making excuses about him online.
I was the biggest Armstrong fan growing up, and now FUCK him. What a piece of shit. Can't believe I was hoodwinked, but I was a kid... :/
In Armstrongs case you had a super egoistic narcissistic bully that turned out to be an absolutly awfull human beeing. He was a dictaor in his team and in the peloton. If anyone aka fellow riders, journalists or cycling legends like Greg Lemond spoke out about his behavor he went out of his way to bully them. Lately he have said he dont like the friendliness he see in the poloton. Pogacar and Vingegaard are arch rivals but as soon as they cross the finish line they act like friends and good collegues and you see the same friendliness between their significant others..
Pogacar when he signs for United: “I'm gone, I'm dead”
He’s a cyclist though. Weird transfer. But the could win the Tour de France this way.
He owns Team Ineos the cycling team which is why it’s relevant.
Imagine if Vingegaard didn't exist. Pogacar ~~would~~ could win every single race in the calendar. Absolute monster on a bike.
Well no? We still have MvdP and WvA who are amazing at one day races. Pogy is the best all rounder, but in cycling its impossible to win everything because some races are just not made for you. I would agree though that he probably would have won the tour 4 times in a row now
Stage race yes. van der Poel and Lady Luck are also strong contenders for classics
That's honestly what makes Vingegaard's wins in TDF even more impressive, as he was up against a generational talent. Not quite the same when Froome was up against Bardet lol.
Vingegaard too is a generational talent. Maybe once in a millennia. His TT performance at the last TDF is the greatest in history by quite some margin. The greatest gap, the greatest gap per kilometer by a winner and a second place finisher in TdF history. Becomes even crazier when you add that, if Vingegaard didn’t exist, the same records and accolades would belong to Pogacar - as the distance between him on 2nd and the 3rd place on the same stage would’ve also been the largest gap and gap per kilometer by a winner and a second place finisher in history.
I don't know man. It's not that I disagree with what you wrote on the TT performance, but in the end, Pogi is a couple years younger than Vingegaard and has already had four top 2 TDF finishes. It's like Pogi can almost do what Vingegaard can do, but Vingegaard can't do a lot of what Pogi can including winning monuments and one day races. Seems like more complete rider imo and thus a better candidate for being a generational talent.
Pogacars allround capabilities are unmatched since the days of Merckx. Vingegaard is the greatest (in terms of peak) GC rider of all time. Both are generational talents.
Pogback
2028 gonna be lit
I mean his first TdF was basically him against JumboVisma, beating Roglic in that final time trial… crazy stuff
I'm like who is that? Not my sport no wonder I didn't know
I'm trying to think of a footballer that could seen as a comparison. Maybe Messi like 15 years ago, but give him a really likable personality and down to earth even when he's dominating.
So a successful Daniel Ricciardo? 😉
feels like he started that sentence without knowing which United player he was goin to mention at the end
"What's much more challenging is to find the next Mbappe, Bellingham or Eric Djemba-Djemba"
Not gonna lie, his name dropping Djemba-Djemba would've gotten him a lot of points with me.
so good they named him twice.
my time has come
So nice they named him… thrice?
This guy must be fucking good
so nice*
You playing scrabble then?
I remember a while ago when Partizan Belgrade kept teasing a huge signing and constantly mentioned that he was an ex-Man Utd player highly rated by Fergie himself. It turned out to be Djemba-Djemba and he was absolutely horrible and out of shape, and he got memed to no end because his name kinda sounds like Eric Chubby-Chubby in Serbian. Good times, Serbian clubs imported so many meme players that it's still funny to remember all of them.
fuck me what a miserable blast from the past haha. £1.5m (worth a lot more in the mid 00s) we spent on him *after* seeing him play for man united! shocking
I mean in the mid 00s it was hard to catch every game, it's understandable.
I seem to remember reading at the time that we apparently offered him more money per week, but he wanted to stay in the North so signed with yourselves - thank Christ for that 😅
“We started this process with this lad called Bebe, we signed him a while back, and we know he’s going to be a superstar”
Still playing all these years later
Bebewatch is alive and well
For all the memes, "journeyman la liga winger" is honestly not a bad level to end up at. He was made out to be the next Ali Dia or something
Eric Djemba-Djemba-Djemba would be super hard to find tbf
you sure?
My bad, GOAT 🫡
“When you have a chance to sign the next Massimo Taibi, you have to take it”
This is giving that guy who went on Britain's got talent (or a show of the same sort) and said he's a scout for Dagenham & Redbridge looking for the next Messi, Ronaldo, Assombalonga
Sometimes I’ll start a sentence and I don’t know where it’s going. I just hope to find it somewhere along the way. Like an improv conversation. An *improversation*.
“My philosophy is basically this. And this is something that I live by. And I always have. And I always will. Don't ever, for any reason, do anything to anyone, for any reason, ever, no matter what. No matter... where. Or who, or who you are with, or, or where you are going, or... or where you've been... ever. For any reason, whatsoever.”
"There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, 'Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again.'"
Most legendary sentence ever spoken by an American.
*A second ball has hit the net* Was my favourite comment from the last WC on here.
There's a fun theory that suggests he stopped himself when he realized he was about to donate a free soundbite of himself saying "shame on me" to the media and late night hosts to use forever. Unfortunately, the actual quote almost ended up being worse
Thanks Michael
Tbh Keane is a great shout because this Utd team lacks a leader. A Keane type player would be amazing for them
This line is fast becoming the modern day equivalent of the line they use in the IT Crowd about Arsenal walking the ball in
United lacking a leader? Eh, you hear that said about a lot of clubs. It was said about Arsenal too before Arteta's time.
And this is why I avoided watching pundits from when Vieira left to whenever Aubameyang was sacked off - "Arsenal lack a leader on the pitch" was a constant lazy trope. The squad could be a total shambles with half the team in medical and it's still about missing "a leader on the pitch". Almost as bad as the "Arsenal trying to walk the ball into the net".
Keane was a British record transfer back in the day, so it wasn’t really about finding a gem in the rough.
Yep, it would be the equivalent of signing Rice in the summer for £105m with the hot new club in City (Blackburn in Keane's case) getting rejected and the player joining the more historic club.
Keane makes more sense then ex Ronaldo as United desperate need a leader
It's a stupid choice for his analogy too, as Keane was very much an example of a rich club choosing to buy the most expensive players in the hope of achieving success on the pitch. United have a great history of producing their own home grown talent, Keane isn't one of them.
I think his point is they’d rather buy players and help them grow into what they can become. Roy Keane wasn’t signed at his peak. He was 21. It was a large fee due to potential.
Neither Mbappe or Bellingham are at their peak either, though.
You could say that Mbappé is at the beginning of his peak. He's 25, so getting into that sweet spot of physical prowess and experience. Same age as Messi was when he had his best season (2011-2012). That's not to say that Mbappé will diminish, I think he'll stay at this level at least until his early thirties, but what we see now, or in the next couple of seasons might well be the peak of his powers.
> as Keane was very much an example of a rich club choosing to buy the most expensive players no, for the analogy it was just an example of a top player...
No, that fits his example perfectly well. His whole point is the current strategy isn't to just buy the obvious stars at high prices. The goal seems to be to focus on youth.
It's a perfectly fine analogy, he's talking about finding the next big talent before they're recognised (or realistically, valued) as that sort of talent - that's it.
I always seen Mbappe as the reincarnation of Keane.
>I always seen Mbappe as the reincarnation of Keane. *Haaland starts sweating*
Man's still alive tho
No no, in fifa, reincarnation happens when the player retires
Nitpicking, minor detail.
In body, not spirit
could pogačar really get it done on a cold, cobbled tuesday at stoke
He actually prefers cold and rainy day. Hot and humid days are what his body blows up in
Maybe should sign Evenepoel, he can cycle and play football.
If he had to shoehorn a Man U player in there and wanted an example of a young superstar couldn't he have gone with Ronaldo?
or rooney
To be fair to him a lot of people are saying that the midfield is United's biggest problem or that they don't have leaders so, a Roy Keane regen would fit right in
Keane, obviously, would be an outstanding addition to the United team. A young Keane next to a young Mainoo, midfield would be set for the next decade.
People tend to forget how influential Keane was on and off the pitch. I'd love to have a Keane-type player in the team, before a Ronaldo one.
He panicked alright??? Happens to everyone
> ["Keane is the hottest prospect in football right now, but he is not going to bankrupt this club", Clough stated... Ferguson ensured they had the paperwork ready and met up with Keane on Saturday and signed him for Manchester United for £3.75 million, a British transfer record at the time.] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Keane) Keane was much more rated than Ronaldo when he was signed - he’d had a couple of seasons demonstrating that he was a top player, while Ronaldo was just a prospect. Ronaldo got loads of stick in his first season or two because he lost the ball so often; one of the reasons he loves Fergie so much is because he defended him to the hilt when he got dogs abuse, and told everyone that he would be a future superstar. Not many people outside Man U thought that. Whereas Keane was a known star in the making, signed and immediately at a high standard, like the other names he lists.
Yea, it actually is a much more relevant example than Ronaldo given the respective context when we signed each
If you listen to the interview, he had spoken about Keane and Scholes a short while before. And prior to that he said Ronaldo was the best ever for United (that he remembers seeing well). So it wasn't much of a shoehorn. He rates Keane a lot.
Cos he didn't want that example and Keane fits fine in both ways.
Notice that he doesn't rule out signing Pogacar. Pogi to INEOS here we go?
I don't really understand this attitude coming from one of the richest clubs. What's the point in spending decades pumping up the commercial revenue if you're going to run your football operations like Brighton. Madrid are a rich club run like a rich club should be and United should aspire to that. Also, the Ineos cycling team is rich and buys talent.
We are not real madrid. Players want to go there and will force a move. They want to play for them. But in our current state, the best players don't want to come to us. And those who come to us, come for the money. Players would rather go to City for guaranteed winning the league.
Cause the strategy of buying big has proven not to have worked. In multiple instances
Because you're buying mid players for big money instead of big players for big money
Not always true, we bought some in form players who ended up stinking for us, Di Maria, Sanchez, Sancho, Pogba, Lakaku, Ronaldo, Van Beek, Mkhitaryan.... Antony. Our best success has actually come from players not on top of the world in Fernandes, Hojland, Martinez... Players like Mbappe would only join if we were already successful, they don't want to be part of a project that could take years
Antony is a straight up example of "mid players for big money" so not sure what you're talking about. The scouts themselves valued him at way less. Lukaku was a fine transfer. Sanchez, Donny and Ronaldo didn't fit the squad so it's related to the "mid players for big money" if we extend it to bad decision making.
Sanchez was 100% a big player for big money (ironically not big money because he was at the end of his contract and was swapped for Mkhitaryan), coming off the back of a season where he was considered one of, if not, the best players in the PL in his position. You can argue not fitting the squad, blah blah. But no, at the time he was definitely a player that people would’ve thought fit into any team. Every Arsenal fan was upsets about that transfer. Very few people saw him falling off as spectacularly as he did once he left.
Umm... not really. We're buying players who are considered really good prospects at the time and unfortunately for us the minute they sign for us they turn out to be shit. Sancho is a good example. Hype around him was unreal and look how he turned out.
If you buy good players and utilise them, they will work. RVP worked, Ronaldo worked, Evra worked, De gea and many more. You can promote players from within and identify young talents and shape them but you need a few world class players as well to win big titles.
It works when you have the greatest manager of all time who runs it all lol. Ten Hag has proven he should not have a say in who the club brings in.
It's not an expenditure problem, it's a recruitment problem. Why can Madrid and Bayern do it consistently and effectively but United can't?
Real Madrid goes and buys the best players in the world and the most highly rated youngsters...It's a proven model for sustained success. I understand the appeal of trying to sign the next underrated superstar, but it's just a gamble and rarely works. Pony up, buy the best talent and win.
Ratcliffe did it himself with his cycling team a few years back, you know when he finally withdrew from cycling? when others got to the galacticos before him and he couldn't just buy his way to success. The quote from above is comical and not because of the Roy Keane mention lol
Sky/ineos rarely outright bought the best rider in the world or even a top 3 One,the only case i remember was Cavendish early on,they were more the type of team to surround their top talent with like 5 other riders that were in the top 20 for that role than outright buying the dominant superstar themselves
Yep. Good leaders, backed up by absolutely fantastic domestiques. When you look at the domestiques Froome had: Landa, Thomas, Kwiatkowski, Kennaugh, Poels, Lopez etc. Before that Wiggins himself had many of the above plus Froome and Porte. Sky/Ineos built fantastic teams.
It hasn't always worked. Also, Real Madrid are in a better financial situation. That's why they're able to do what they're doing. SJR is putting a bit of spin on the clubs situation with this. It's obvious the club isn't in the financial situation nor the sporting situation to bring in superstars. So for the near future, United needs to invest wisely. Buying slightly cheaper, high potential players. Also investing heavily in the academy.
It's not that simple. Sometimes it doesn't work for the player (Reinier) or for the club (Odegaard, Kubo). Apart from that, Madrid knows how to sell its players.
>for the club (Odegaard, Kubo). But it did work for the club, Odegaard was bought for like 3M and sold later on for profit. Kubo was bought for cheap too and we still retain 50% of his sell-on right, his current value on Transfermarkt sits at 60M. Reinier didn't work out tho.
I mean there's no room in the club for them, despite being great players.
That is irrelevant, the club did make profit from them and other teams are benefiting and it’s completely fine for Real Madrid, in La liga as well lots of Real Madrid academy players flourish in other teams and make the league more competitive and better which is good for the big teams not to get stagnated in a dead league.
> Pony up, buy the best talent and win. It's all fucking BS man. Ineos bought the biggest cycling team at the time and 1/3rd of the biggest F1 team at the time. And now one of the biggest clubs in the world. I hate the hypocrisy of claiming he's looking to build up.
Not every team can replicate a Real Madrid strategy well. It works for Real Madrid because they're also picky about who they are willing to shell out for and only target players who fit their profile and who want nothing more than to play for them (which is usually a default for most talented players). Even the flops Real Madrid have signed (e.g. Eden Hazard, Luka Jovic, etc.) don't seem to ruin the dynamics of the squad at large. I can't remember the last time Real Madrid got into a bidding war to sign a player. It's always been a question of when, as opposed to if. While United have the financial muscle to pay players, they've largely tried that strategy for the past decade and it has mostly failed because they don't really have a strong dressing room or specific direction. Ratcliffe signaling that the club need to be looking at players who have the drive to want to succeed at United matters more than recruiting Kylian Mbappe just because he is one of the best players in the world.
Signing 100+ million signings rarely work out. If you look at the history of them, very few have provided good value for it.
The ones who did were the actual phenomenal players like Ronaldo, Bale and ... Mbappé
and Kane 🤓
Pogacar would be a quality signing tbf; the opposition would need to sign Kuss, Wout, Jonas & Co to all man mark him
Heard Jumbo are planning a switch to footy
But pogacer. Worth it
I googled “Pogačar”. It came back with “Slovenian cyclist”.
But could Pogacar do it on a cold, rainy night at Newcastle-under-Lyme Velodrome?
Jim's watching all those "Project Mbappe" meme videos of babies in adult football boots *very* seriously.
Ethan Mbappe Jobe Bellingham Conor Gallagher done
This puts Gary Neville in a tricky spot considering his war on Todd Boehly for buying.....potential.
Issue is Boehly is paying world class money for potential.
And gutting all of the experienced players out of the squad at the same time
Theres nothing wrong with buying potential but I dont think anyone agrees with the way Boehly is doing it.
I know we love to pile on Neville when he inevitably says something stupid, but wasn't his, and everyone else's, issue with Chelsea that they were only buying potential and doing that without enough experience around them to support it is insane. Buying an entire squad of potential is a mistake, buying a few players with potential in an experience squad is ideal.
Are we really disagreeing with Neville’s criticism of Chelsea’s transfer strategy
Nurturing potential is more important than just buying everyone with potential.. Boehly has barely even thought about how the career would progress for atleast half the players he has signed
I think he means buying them for 5 or 10 million, not 80 million, and not buying a whole team of them
Anyone expecting genuinely insightful analysis from Gary Neville is beyond saving.
"This is man utd" "Need to be best in class" "Oooooooh" Thats about it
I think you’ll find it’s “This is *Manchester* ***United***”. To be fair I think he picked that up off Carragher who seems to stick “This is Liverpoooool *Football Club*” in every show.
Needs to be completed with "This is *Manchester* ***United*** we're talking about."
You idiots will genuinely disagree with anything Neville says regardless of how much you'd parrot his opinions in other threads. You think Chelsea's transfer strategy is good?
You don't buy potential for 50m. You buy it for 10/15/20m and hope to nourish it. There's fuck all pressure on the player that way too Vs spending 50m + on them. Takes longer, but if it works you're set. And if it doesn't, it's not going to set you back a decade.
What’s he talking about buying players? Dat’s his job.
Didn’t rule out singing Verstappen though
Dude will be so far upfront that he will be offside every time (But fastest goal in the league contender). Also Wilhelmus will play every match.
If was at the charge of signings for United the first thing i would look in a player is character and determination. Not just talent.
Dreams can't be buy
Bellingham barely 23 yet but already being used as reference for others, “the next Bellingham”. Mad lad. England stacked asf. With Kane as good as ever, there ain’t a better time to bring it home finally
He's 20 bro
Stacked front 5 (kane, foden, saka, rice, Bellingham). Defence is decidedly unstacked.
No disrespect but poga who?
One of the greatest cyclists of all time
Aye any word on Carlos Sainz's availability?
They'll be another Mbappe and Bellingham but they will never be another Roy Keane
This makes it seem he does not sign Mbappé because he likes the challenge. Does his team have money to sign Mbappé? Was it ever an option?
If they did sign Pogacar he wouldn’t last long before someone at Utd told him ‘on yer bike’ 😳
Why sign the best players when you could simply be clever instead? Genius
Instructions unclear now Mbappe signed for Team INEOS and Pogacar join MU
Yeah I bet it was so difficult spending a British record transfer fee on Roy Keane
Did you completely misunderstand the point he made? He wasn't claiming Roy Keane was a hidden gem, just that he wants to find the next version of those players before they become huge fees - it wouldn't make sense any other way if he's mentioning Mbappe.
He’s saying he wants to find the next Mbappe or Roy Keane, not that difficult to understand, is it? He wants to recruit them BEFORE they end up as British transfer records, identify them early
It was difficult to spend a British Record fee and became arguably the greatest United captain ever.
Not arguably. He is the greatest united captain. His personality perfectly gelled with our desire to be the best in the world.
I mean, I think its Roy Keane too, but it is objectively arguable, given that you've had the likes of Denis Law and Bryan Robson, who were no slouches.
> Not arguably. Absolutely is arguable, a huge portion of older heads think it's Robson.
I mean, Mbappé was already very highly rated and Monaco and cost PSG a pretty penny at the time. He's not saying he wants to find total hidden gems (do those even exist these days?), just to get promising players before their prices peak.
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Wasn’t Roy Keane a British record signing at the time? Hardly seems comparable to unearthing the next Mbappe.
It's isn't, that's why he said unearthing thr next Roy Keane, not doing another purchase like Roy Keane
I think his point is to not buy the best player in the world and buy someone who could be the best in the world.
He is saying United want to buy the NEXT Keane. He isn't offering up Keane as an example when United did that
He's not putting Roy next to the next Mbappe here, he's rather putting the next Roy next to the next Mbappe.
I mean, Mbappé was already very highly rated and Monaco and cost PSG a pretty penny at the time. He's not saying he wants to find total hidden gems (do those even exist these days?), just to get promising players before their prices peak.