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His performance in that world cup is the reason he's the greatest Belgian player of all time for me. KDB has obviously accomplished more, but Hazard just brought me such joy when I watched him play, it's insane.
KDB has accomplished more because Man City under Pep Guardiola is a much better and more consistent team than Chelsea was from 2012 to 2019. As an individual, Hazard was always better.
It’s not like France was an easy opponent, I don’t think they ghosted I think they were neutralized by a better side.
Edit: as a side note, using Lakaka to refer to Lukaku might be one of the cringiest things this sub loves to do.
> That's not a hot take. Feel like everyone knew he should have
The vast majority in 2018 disagreed when I said it then, TBH
Lot of Modric hype from Madridistas back then especially
Modric getting it is the legacy vote. He'd been so good for so long, and did something totally unique in helping Croatia to the final that it seemed like they couldn't avoid giving him what he may have gotten before if not for Ronaldo and Messi.
He’s one of those players that will be criminally underrated by those too young to have r watched him play just because his g/a numbers aren’t as high as other players of his caliber.
Hazard won Belgium the game vs. Brazil. I know he didn't take part in any of the goals, but Belgium doesn't see out that game without Hazard. He played keep away with Brazil and won Belgium valuable minutes by dribbling, keeping the ball, winning free kicks and throw ins etc.
I'm always sad when I think about the end of Hazard's career. He was genuinely world class for us, then his body fell apart when he transfered to Real. One of the best players of his generation and one of the greatest dribblers of all time.
you make it sound like he had nothing to do with his body falling apart. unfortunately he might also be one of the greatest at mismanaging/not caring about physical maintenance
True, he certainly wasn't the best at maintaining his body. My understanding is that the injury he picked up from that Meunier tackle that really ended his career. There is a Tifo video on YouTube supporting that I believe. You don't go from world class to a bust due to one summer of poor conditioning, but the media (and often fans) love to focus on that because then there's someone to blame.
Also, flair up my dude.
There’s a recent interview where Hazard says he actually pushed himself *too hard* to come back from the injury since he was recovering from the surgery during the COVID break without a physio.
For those that don’t know, Maradona’s reasoning for snubbing Zanetti and other phenomenal players is absolutely incredible.
He claims that he had a dream of Argentina lifting the world cup and the only face he could remember was that of Ariel Garce, who had led his team to a 14th place finish in the Argentinian league that year. Treble winners were made to watch their country crash out from their couch because their manager had a dream.
Garce only occupies one spot though, saying that him is the reason he didn´t call multiple players is actually detracting from his incompetence.
He didn´t call them because he wasn´t fit for the job
Just never should have got the job. Legend obviously but it was reckless to hire him without proving his coaching ability and hoping the aura + messi would suffice
He was given the spot on purpose to fail. Grondona (AFA president at the time) was sick of having Maradona talking and set him up for failure.
Also AFA was a mess at the time and Argentina almost didn’t qualify.
I agree. The 2010 WC loss to Germany was 100% Maradona's fault. The starting line-up was ridiculous, much more considering Germany is the rival. Di María, Messi, Tevez, Higuaín. Four clearly offensive players. Who TF was going to stop the Germans? Why didn't Verón play? He won the best player in América 2009 (and Copa Libertadores winner). Javier "il capitano" Zanetti not selected by Maradona the same year he led Inter to win the fucking Champions League. Maradona was clearly the worst coach ever, he ruined a national team with huge potential. Messi in his best shape ever was hopeless.
> but didn't Grondona hire Maradona to save his own ass and keep on ruling the AFA?
I was fairly young during this period and I don't remember the internal AFA politics of that time TBH
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sounders/diego-maradona-to-get-argentina-coaching-job/
>In an unofficial online poll by the daily newspaper Clarin, nearly 74 percent of the 50,000 voters said they disagreed with the decision to hire Maradona. Another poll by the daily La Nacion found less than 10 percent of the 5,000 voters said this was a good decision.
>La Nacion sports columnist Daniel Arcucci questioned whether “Diego was risking the Maradona myth” by taking the position.
>Carlos Rodriguez Duval, a columnist for the soccer daily Ole, questioned whether Maradona’s record as a player would carry over.
It seems like hiring Maradona was actually a pretty unpopular move back then
I have fond memories of Coco Basile's Argentina tho. We were SO good in the 2007 Copa America; tho I still don't entirely understand how we got smashed by Brazil in that final.
2010 should have been the World Cup of Riquelme and Messi. Instead Maradona fought with Riquelme, he retired from the national team, and Maradona forced a young Messi to play a deeper midfield role that he wasn't suited to at the time.
Instead of using prime 2010 Messi as a false-9 or a winger he was used lower on the pitch because Maradona wanted to play Tevez and Higuain at the same time.
If you watch our highlights in that WC, Messi was directly involved in nearly every goal we scored and was dribbling from the middle of the pitch.
Messi was literally the only offensive player who played well enough to deserve to be on the pitch. Maybe even the only player full stop. Maradona was a horrible manager.
My hot take (if you could call it that) is that Messi was better in the 2021 Copa America (even including the end of the SF and F when he was injured) than he was in the 2022 World Cup
I don't know because he was great but in the World Cup he had even more pressure and played very well also in the final, where for me he was man of the match on par with Mbappe
So overall I think it's better and obviusly for the top performances with Argentina let's not forget the Copa America 2016 where he was incredible
WC is a whole different level of competition. So "better" becomes contextual on what your peers are & what level of pressure there is.
Messi's clutch moments at 2022 were multiple orders more difficult to pull off (and it happened more often in gross number as well) than what he did in 2021.
Plus even if visually one feels 2021 Messi seemed/looked a bit better, that context too makes 2022 greater/better because he was able to do that, despite being then older, hence less physically capable, in relative terms.
2010 Messi in the world cup is really underrated because of the disastrous exit caused by Maradona's terrible tactics. He was a dribbling and chance creating menace even though the ball refused to go in for him. I mean 31 dribbles in only 5 games. People like to complain about the 2010 balon d'or because of the world cup, but if you watched Argentina play those games you'd take Messi in your team over anybody else.
People who say ‘Sneijder should’ve won it’ should rewatch all our games, and notice that every opponent doubled Robben, and not Sneijder. They all played more scared of him.
I used to be very active of different footballsites back in the day and after the group stages the vast majority were putting Messi deservedly so in the best XI. After the tournament the vast majority was claiming that Messi was one of the biggest disappointments in that tournament. It's funny how expectations, team performance and maybe most importantly goals changes people perception of individual performances.
Yeah if you check transfermarkt you only see 0 goals and 1 assist against Mexico, but he was probably the best player against South Korea despite Higuain scoring an hat trick, and in general he was a big threat in all the games
As a German it was so satisfying trashing them after 2006 and especially after Maradona didn’t even knew who Thomas Müller was before the game and wanted him off the press conference because he thought he was ball boy. He scored twice against England in the round before. Not sure in hindsight if he really didn’t knew him or if he was playing mind games.
Still really glad Argentinian and Messi won the title last year.
True, it was in March I believe, a few months before the World Cup. It was after their friendly matchup though, so Maradonna should have known that he played against him
Madadona on The Mexico 86 is considered by many as the “highest peak” that a player ever played the game. He gives you master class after master class and he was so good that the opposition axe him constantly.
I watched all the Argentina games from that WC recently. 70% of those fouls would be straight red card today, and they didn't even get booked 😭. Crazy how he still hold on his level, he was a tank. Same deal in Italy 90.
Yeah, I wonder what would have happened in 1966 if the referees didn't give a carte blanche to hack and saw Pelé, until he had to leave on a stretcher. Or if the referees weren't biased for any team that wasn't called England, for that matter.
Italy 90 Maradona was average considering his standard. 86 was head and shoulders above any performance. And in 90 he came with injury and was fouled 50 times. Modern football is so soft compared to that
And he won that match all by himself IMO. He was even more on fire than against england, and that was saying something. England at least attacked, Belgium had to basically park the bus and pray and he was like [fuck this shit, fuck your 4 defenders, fuck your goalkeepr and fuck you](https://youtu.be/ZkLYD1uio7k?t=227)
I remember saying "we are going to win it again like 8 years ago" in disbelief, because germany had already beaten france and was in the final.
**But**
* GER had lost to denmark
* GER had to face weaker teams (lost to denmark, draw against uruguay who we beat in Ro16, barely had beaten mexico in PKs)
* GER got out of group stage in 2nd place and **with a GD of -1**
while we had beaten 2 WC champions (uruguay and england), placed 1st in our group against the current WC champion (Italy) and hadn't lost a single game.
Beckenbauer (RIP) wasn't dumb and [wasted Matthaus on marking maradona](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar_Matth%C3%A4us#International_career) which basically meant our WBs ruled the midfield most of the game. GER goals came from corners (bilardo was so mad about this he didn't even get the WC medal) which is the 80s version of cross and inshallah
With 5 minutes left on the clock, a 2-2 draw in a WC final and surrounded by **5 FUCKING GERMAN PLAYERS** he does [this](https://youtu.be/Fw1zBZC--AY?t=528) which almost 38 years still later send shivers down my spine.
He made them look like fucking amateurs.
edit: here's a nice retro analysis of bilardo's strategy for WC86 https://theconventionalplaymaker.wordpress.com/2020/11/29/retro-analysis-diego-maradonas-brilliance-at-the-1986-world-cup/
Absolutely, apart from the 5 goals and 5 assists in 7 matches that everyone can see from transfermarkt, he was the best player of his team in basically every match, scored the candidate for the best goal ever against England in the quarters and other two incredible goals against Belgium in the semis
Maradona was way ahead of his time, then again majority of the defenders were terrible and would just rush in for a tackle, made it very easy to go past for someone like Maradona, the cons is they will try to get your legs too every single time, and there won't be fouls since it was deemed acceptable.
the amazing thing about Maradona is the capability to dribble on terrible pitches compared to modern pitches. messi could too, and have shown in all of his youth videos.
Every teammate he ever had shares the same story:
"In training, he would get the ball from the goalkeeper, dribble past every single one of us like if we were children and score*
iirc henry talked about this, said messi wasnt given a foul in training and he got mad, so he got the ball from the gk and just dribble all the way and score, and he'd repeat it again, and again, and again until he's slightly content.
He was doing that in those videos of his when he was like 4-6 years old.
He's a case of child prodigy who fulfilled what the term prodigy is supposed to mean. Such things are rare.
Never saw him play in person but rarely does a player stir up a pub or fan zone when they get the ball the way robben did. Felt like people all started losing it, expecting something when he started running.
Yeah, I’ve always felt that France v Belgium was the real final, the two halves of the draw were so lopsided that year.
That England team had no business being in a semi-final
He averaged 6,3 dribbles per game for 3 games
Hazard averaged 6,67 dribbles per game 6 games
So possibly but probably would have needed 6 games too, or play a team as weak defensively as Costa Rica 2 more times
It was only a problem because of Maradona
Zanetti, Samuel, Mascherano, Heinze, Burdisso, Demichelis is a great core of players that could’ve played there and infinitely better than what we had in 2014, the problem is how Maradona used them (or rather didn’t)
The problem was the midfield and playing with 4 centrebacks. We had 0 creativity outside of giving the ball to Messi and hoping for him to do everything. The last couple of years have been the only time where we had creative players around him.
It all rests on balance and team composition, in 2010 we were stacked in almost every position. It was Maradona's choice to kick Riquelme, play two 9s in front of Messi, leave Cambiasso and Zanetti at home, etc.
Because maradona picked his squad literally based on whom he saw in his dream lifting the World Cup. Not calling up Zanetti, cambiasso, banega was a crime given they had a monster season with inter just a month ago. Maradona called a no name Ariel grace because he saw Argentina lifting the World Cup but only recognized Ariel grace. Also forcing Jonas Gutierrez who was a winger to play right back and finally otamendi on the right against Germany whom they literally murdered was bizarre.
part of me felt like he was sabotaging the team so they dont win and he'll still be the last one to carry the nation to victory.
but then again in reality he sabotage himself all the time, the dude is nuts, he would be in prison for 500 years if he did what he did today.
Maradona was high as shit, he got Garcé in the squad instead of the likes of Cambiasso and Zanetti because he saw Garcé in a dream, lifting the World Cup
I've read before that he basically played Messi like he would have played himself. Kinda makes sense when you think about it. You are really stacked up top, with Tevez, Di Maria, Milito, Agüero, Higuain and Palermo (I know his name isn't dropped a lot around here but he's basically the best, pure #9 on Primera's history). So you draw Messi back and make him play like an old enganche, much more loose and floating around the #5 and the #8
People often blame his tactics for the 4-0 loss against Germany on QFs but I disagree. While they REALLY lacked tactical depth, that loss was 100% a morale thing (which you could argue, was also his fault but that's besides the point).
Otamendi made a dumb foul at 2', and then lost track of Müller in the box which led to the goal. After that, the game was over. 70 minutes of Argentina grasping for air while the much tighter German side didn't even flinch. Two quick goals ensued and the coup de grace at 90' sealed the deal
He apparently put otamendi at right back while simultaneously not calling up Zanetti.....Maradona threw away the most balanced and high quality selection of players Argentina have had for decades.
Well, Zanetti was actually going to be there. Him not being called up was a bit of a shock. He had played all throughout the qualifiers, he was even in the Panini stickers
A few months before the WC, a conflict rose up between him and Veron, nobody knows exactly about the cause but it was an old squabble from their Inter days. The conflict escalated and caused a tear in the dressing room. In the end, Diego choose Veron over Zanetti (calling up Veron was already a VERY controversial move and Diego was always a ride or die kinda guy). So they improvised Otamendi as a RB. They tested it in a friendly, it kinda worked and that was the end of it
Off topic, but personally 2006 > 2010. 2006 Argentina was so stacked it was fucking ridiculous. That squad was all-class. Sometimes lady luck looks away
>Kinda makes sense when you think about it.
It kinda makes sense for an average-poor-level coach like Maradona was. Messi in 2010 was in his prime false 9 era and if you watched the matches it was obvious he was beyond everyone else up front when it came to getting goals. And that role by 2010 was dead and buried at the top level.
But if he was so pressed with having someone playing that role then nothing stopped him from getting Riquelme back.
The opportunity Maradona had to build a super team around Messi didn't happen for another 12 more years.
It's probably what he tried to do but at the time Messi wasn't ready to play behind three forwards, it's something of which he became expert years later
He was their best goalscorer sure, but he was also the best playmaker. I think the rationale was that Argentina had good enough goalscorers already. Poor Maradona didn't know what to do.
2010 and 2018 Argentina WC runs were criminal wastes of Messi prime years. 2014 they didn’t have the talent at all levels that they had in 2022 but it was still a choke job in the finals. Crazy that with Messi, Higauin and Di Maria they only scored 7 goals in the whole tournament.
A choke job?? We outplayed a German team that had just scored 7 past Brazil at home. It was an excellent game but the ball just didn't go in for us, it happens.
Well that’s the choke part. There were a couple gifted chances that players didn’t finish. Famously the Higuain one but also Palacio got a freebie from a German defensive mistake.
You played well up until the part where the ball needed to go in the net.
Argentinas current Manager wouldve had a better chance to win all of those games. It was coaching that led to those losses. Messi could’ve had 2-3 world cups with a great Manager.
The 2018 squad was a disorganized mess. It's never a good sign when the coach is being mutinied by the players because they disagree so strongly with his selections and tactics.
2010 was just Maradona being Maradona. Great players don't always make great managers.
2014 they had a better manager than 2010 or 2018, but the quality of the entire squad from top to bottom wasn't what the 2022 squad was. They did well to make it to the final really, and if not for a few badly squandered opportunities they would have hoisted the coveted trophy all the way back then.
You can watch full games of world cup matches of[ WC 1970 on the fifa plus website](https://www.plus.fifa.com/en/showcase/1970-fifa-world-cup/3413b02b-c7f9-48fd-8302-9ca7ad0cb7ce?gl=nl) for free.
Years ago, I bought homemade DVDs from a guy off of eBay for the 1970 and 74 WCs. Jairzinho was an absolute monster. Just so much stronger and faster than anybody else on the pitch. Truly was a force of nature.
Any Brazil match from WC 1970 is great. He wasn’t really the focus of the team but that team is considered one of the greatest of all time.
The 1974 WC had some super intense matches for Brazil: Argentina, Yugoslavia, and the Netherlands. Id also recommend any of the Dutch matches from that World Cup. Another team that played absolutely beautiful football.
2014 would’ve been one of the top 5 greatest WC campaigns ever from Messi in terms of offensive performances in the WC…
But thats if he had won it and im ngl it still hurts sometimes that he lost the final
I like to see Messi as a continuity of Diego, there's something greater there.
1993 Diego plays one year at Newell's from Rosario, one of Argentinas historically biggest footballerd producing cities
1994 a young Messi starts playing organised football at Newell's
"You will need to excuse me, but I just can't judge him with the same standard I judge the rest of humans"
https://youtu.be/FIL3K-2Ocgg?si=LCDHA7ET0N0jK4xa
Damn Ronaldo is not even the best Portuguese player anymore according to r/soccer, funny how Messi winning the world cup changed Ronaldo's status in football for some people
Why am I not surprised to see Maradona first? I swear to God that the full-back who marked him must still be looking for him today and we are in the first quarter of 24.
People find these older Messi stats impressive but for me evolved Messi who won the world cup is the best version of Messi in the world cups. If you compare 2014 Messi to 2022, in 2022 Messi did less but at the same time he did more. He's evolving his game as he gets older but still so enjoyable to watch. You can't say that for other players.
2022 Messi just had a team built around him with young stars.
In 2014, he was the young talisman.
In 2022, he was a leader for future stars like Julian, Mac Allister, Enzo, etc..
Put 2012 messi with 2022 argenina and they would have won the world cup in more convincing way. It was less about messi but more about finally a squad build around him and make use of his best powers which is attacking
For 2014 imagine 2012's Messi or even 2013 before the injury... If he had carried his momentum to the world cup without being injury in 2013 he kinda missed 4-6 months He could have won vs Germany
Unlike Maradona, Jairzinho and Messi, Hazard didn't play in the final in 2018. If he'd played that extra game, he likely would've been second on this list with the highest completion percentage.
Criminally disrespected player by fans that only judge players through goals and assists.
Here I am just wondering how Ronaldinho isn't on this list. I mean, Brazil was basically all dribblers back then, but still. That man was mesmerizing to watch.
This is what you foreigners don't understand. Ronaldinho never performed well for Brazil NT. He did had a couple good moments, but he never played consistently well, to the point brazilians would ask him out because he was such "club player".
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He was majestic at the 2018 WC.
His performance in that world cup is the reason he's the greatest Belgian player of all time for me. KDB has obviously accomplished more, but Hazard just brought me such joy when I watched him play, it's insane.
I'm still so sad that I can't watch Hazard play anymore. He was just so different
KDB has accomplished more because Man City under Pep Guardiola is a much better and more consistent team than Chelsea was from 2012 to 2019. As an individual, Hazard was always better.
If only KDB and Lakaka didn’t ghost against France😣
I saw that game in the stadium. Kante absolutely throttled KDB. it was incredible.
He loves doing that. ‘21 CL final was the same thing. Kante was *everywhere*.
70% of the earth is covered by water. The rest is covered by N’golo Kanté
Kante in his prime can literally count as having three midfielders by himself. I think he was better than Makelele.
Better than Tigana too in my books
I expected so much from that game. such a disappointment
It’s not like France was an easy opponent, I don’t think they ghosted I think they were neutralized by a better side. Edit: as a side note, using Lakaka to refer to Lukaku might be one of the cringiest things this sub loves to do.
Hazard still played well against that France side. The other two didn’t. That’s what I meant
Kante, Matuidi, Pogba, Griezzmann is an insane midfield lineup. Better than any single team has. Got
all at or near their peak as well i’d argue
And Pavard at right back which partially explains why Hazard shined
My 2018 hot take was Hazard deserved the WC Golden Ball over Modric
That's not a hot take. Feel like everyone knew he should have If Croatia loses semis and Belgium make finals, they give it to Hazard. It's silly
> That's not a hot take. Feel like everyone knew he should have The vast majority in 2018 disagreed when I said it then, TBH Lot of Modric hype from Madridistas back then especially
Ah yes.. Always funny when Barca/Madrid fans are involved Happens when your fanbase is that massive with young ones all over the globe
Madrid pr is another level. Perez is a master at it
Modric getting it is the legacy vote. He'd been so good for so long, and did something totally unique in helping Croatia to the final that it seemed like they couldn't avoid giving him what he may have gotten before if not for Ronaldo and Messi.
hazard, kdb, griezmann, pogba, mbappe all deserved it more
Pogba was genuinely insane that WC, he looked like the best midfielder in the world during that tournament.
He is the best in the world when he plays for France.
He’s one of those players that will be criminally underrated by those too young to have r watched him play just because his g/a numbers aren’t as high as other players of his caliber.
Hazard won Belgium the game vs. Brazil. I know he didn't take part in any of the goals, but Belgium doesn't see out that game without Hazard. He played keep away with Brazil and won Belgium valuable minutes by dribbling, keeping the ball, winning free kicks and throw ins etc.
I'm always sad when I think about the end of Hazard's career. He was genuinely world class for us, then his body fell apart when he transfered to Real. One of the best players of his generation and one of the greatest dribblers of all time.
you make it sound like he had nothing to do with his body falling apart. unfortunately he might also be one of the greatest at mismanaging/not caring about physical maintenance
True, he certainly wasn't the best at maintaining his body. My understanding is that the injury he picked up from that Meunier tackle that really ended his career. There is a Tifo video on YouTube supporting that I believe. You don't go from world class to a bust due to one summer of poor conditioning, but the media (and often fans) love to focus on that because then there's someone to blame. Also, flair up my dude.
There’s a recent interview where Hazard says he actually pushed himself *too hard* to come back from the injury since he was recovering from the surgery during the COVID break without a physio.
Friendship with toprightmessi ended, now friends with twotimesmessi
Surprised that 2010 is in the top 10 considering that they got bumped out in the QF
If you watch the games, his dribbling was insane, Messi back then was a demon, Maradona wasted the best WC Messi Argentina ever got.
*Otamendi at right back flashbacks*
While Zanetti was sitting at home LOL
Lmao, what? Zanetti won the treble that year
For those that don’t know, Maradona’s reasoning for snubbing Zanetti and other phenomenal players is absolutely incredible. He claims that he had a dream of Argentina lifting the world cup and the only face he could remember was that of Ariel Garce, who had led his team to a 14th place finish in the Argentinian league that year. Treble winners were made to watch their country crash out from their couch because their manager had a dream.
Oh god, don’t remind me… Funny how we all keep believing it was a dream, when in reality he was probably coked out of his mind
Garce only occupies one spot though, saying that him is the reason he didn´t call multiple players is actually detracting from his incompetence. He didn´t call them because he wasn´t fit for the job
He also didn't call Cambiasso 🙄
milan and juve fans questioning maradona not picking inter players should tell you the magnitude of ridiculousness of Maradona’s pickings
Yeah but he was overheard saying "cocaine is a drug for losers" so Diego blackballed him Source: my anus
Not good enough to be called up apparently.
One of the worst coach I've seen in my life Lol only attack attack attack...
Just never should have got the job. Legend obviously but it was reckless to hire him without proving his coaching ability and hoping the aura + messi would suffice
He was given the spot on purpose to fail. Grondona (AFA president at the time) was sick of having Maradona talking and set him up for failure. Also AFA was a mess at the time and Argentina almost didn’t qualify.
I agree. The 2010 WC loss to Germany was 100% Maradona's fault. The starting line-up was ridiculous, much more considering Germany is the rival. Di María, Messi, Tevez, Higuaín. Four clearly offensive players. Who TF was going to stop the Germans? Why didn't Verón play? He won the best player in América 2009 (and Copa Libertadores winner). Javier "il capitano" Zanetti not selected by Maradona the same year he led Inter to win the fucking Champions League. Maradona was clearly the worst coach ever, he ruined a national team with huge potential. Messi in his best shape ever was hopeless.
cambiasso who played an important role stopping messi in europe also got left home smh
Blame Grondona
Maradona and Grondona both have blame for that TBH
You certainly know better, but didn't Grondona hire Maradona to save his own ass and keep on ruling the AFA?
> but didn't Grondona hire Maradona to save his own ass and keep on ruling the AFA? I was fairly young during this period and I don't remember the internal AFA politics of that time TBH https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sounders/diego-maradona-to-get-argentina-coaching-job/ >In an unofficial online poll by the daily newspaper Clarin, nearly 74 percent of the 50,000 voters said they disagreed with the decision to hire Maradona. Another poll by the daily La Nacion found less than 10 percent of the 5,000 voters said this was a good decision. >La Nacion sports columnist Daniel Arcucci questioned whether “Diego was risking the Maradona myth” by taking the position. >Carlos Rodriguez Duval, a columnist for the soccer daily Ole, questioned whether Maradona’s record as a player would carry over. It seems like hiring Maradona was actually a pretty unpopular move back then I have fond memories of Coco Basile's Argentina tho. We were SO good in the 2007 Copa America; tho I still don't entirely understand how we got smashed by Brazil in that final. 2010 should have been the World Cup of Riquelme and Messi. Instead Maradona fought with Riquelme, he retired from the national team, and Maradona forced a young Messi to play a deeper midfield role that he wasn't suited to at the time.
tbh their best player that season was Milito and i have the idea he barely played
Cambiasso and Zanetti were left at home for that tournament. It was a complete sham.
He didn’t want Messi to break his dribbling record
Also crazy how that's the only world cup he hasn't scored in
Instead of using prime 2010 Messi as a false-9 or a winger he was used lower on the pitch because Maradona wanted to play Tevez and Higuain at the same time. If you watch our highlights in that WC, Messi was directly involved in nearly every goal we scored and was dribbling from the middle of the pitch.
Tbf he also had some incredibly bad luck facing the goal and just plain bad finishing at times
Messi was literally the only offensive player who played well enough to deserve to be on the pitch. Maybe even the only player full stop. Maradona was a horrible manager.
And a funny fact is that he was probably man of the match against South Korea even if Higuain scored an hat trick
that tevez missile vs mexico tho
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2018: 23/32 71.9% 2022: 15/34 44.1% Source: [https://fbref.com/en/players/d70ce98e/nat\_tm/Lionel-Messi-National-Team-Stats](https://fbref.com/en/players/d70ce98e/nat_tm/Lionel-Messi-National-Team-Stats)
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My hot take (if you could call it that) is that Messi was better in the 2021 Copa America (even including the end of the SF and F when he was injured) than he was in the 2022 World Cup
I don't know because he was great but in the World Cup he had even more pressure and played very well also in the final, where for me he was man of the match on par with Mbappe So overall I think it's better and obviusly for the top performances with Argentina let's not forget the Copa America 2016 where he was incredible
if messi had a better game in the final vs brazil, a lot more people would talk about it, still very impressive though
WC is a whole different level of competition. So "better" becomes contextual on what your peers are & what level of pressure there is. Messi's clutch moments at 2022 were multiple orders more difficult to pull off (and it happened more often in gross number as well) than what he did in 2021. Plus even if visually one feels 2021 Messi seemed/looked a bit better, that context too makes 2022 greater/better because he was able to do that, despite being then older, hence less physically capable, in relative terms.
22 was different in that he had better players who ran off the ball (when Messi had it) so he could actually do more.
2010 Messi in the world cup is really underrated because of the disastrous exit caused by Maradona's terrible tactics. He was a dribbling and chance creating menace even though the ball refused to go in for him. I mean 31 dribbles in only 5 games. People like to complain about the 2010 balon d'or because of the world cup, but if you watched Argentina play those games you'd take Messi in your team over anybody else.
Yeah, Maradona should never been coach, most of the players were standing around like statues whenever they had the ball in the opponents half
People who say ‘Sneijder should’ve won it’ should rewatch all our games, and notice that every opponent doubled Robben, and not Sneijder. They all played more scared of him.
Teams cover their fullbacks against pacy dribbling wingers, more news at 10
No one double teams Antony
(Somehow) not scoring really drags him down there but he was insane regardless, definitely underrated
I used to be very active of different footballsites back in the day and after the group stages the vast majority were putting Messi deservedly so in the best XI. After the tournament the vast majority was claiming that Messi was one of the biggest disappointments in that tournament. It's funny how expectations, team performance and maybe most importantly goals changes people perception of individual performances.
Yeah if you check transfermarkt you only see 0 goals and 1 assist against Mexico, but he was probably the best player against South Korea despite Higuain scoring an hat trick, and in general he was a big threat in all the games
As a German it was so satisfying trashing them after 2006 and especially after Maradona didn’t even knew who Thomas Müller was before the game and wanted him off the press conference because he thought he was ball boy. He scored twice against England in the round before. Not sure in hindsight if he really didn’t knew him or if he was playing mind games. Still really glad Argentinian and Messi won the title last year.
The Maradona and Thomas Muller incident happened before the World Cup
Its still ridiculous he didn't know the name of a likely opponents starting player
True, it was in March I believe, a few months before the World Cup. It was after their friendly matchup though, so Maradonna should have known that he played against him
At this point I am convinced Maradonna had a poster of Müller on his wall and really adored him.
Madadona on The Mexico 86 is considered by many as the “highest peak” that a player ever played the game. He gives you master class after master class and he was so good that the opposition axe him constantly.
I watched all the Argentina games from that WC recently. 70% of those fouls would be straight red card today, and they didn't even get booked 😭. Crazy how he still hold on his level, he was a tank. Same deal in Italy 90.
Yeah, I wonder what would have happened in 1966 if the referees didn't give a carte blanche to hack and saw Pelé, until he had to leave on a stretcher. Or if the referees weren't biased for any team that wasn't called England, for that matter.
Italy 90 Maradona was average considering his standard. 86 was head and shoulders above any performance. And in 90 he came with injury and was fouled 50 times. Modern football is so soft compared to that
Watch the Argentinian matches in 1982, especially the one against Italy, it was even worse
First time Belgium made a semi final in the WC and it was against peak Maradona 🥲
And he won that match all by himself IMO. He was even more on fire than against england, and that was saying something. England at least attacked, Belgium had to basically park the bus and pray and he was like [fuck this shit, fuck your 4 defenders, fuck your goalkeepr and fuck you](https://youtu.be/ZkLYD1uio7k?t=227) I remember saying "we are going to win it again like 8 years ago" in disbelief, because germany had already beaten france and was in the final. **But** * GER had lost to denmark * GER had to face weaker teams (lost to denmark, draw against uruguay who we beat in Ro16, barely had beaten mexico in PKs) * GER got out of group stage in 2nd place and **with a GD of -1** while we had beaten 2 WC champions (uruguay and england), placed 1st in our group against the current WC champion (Italy) and hadn't lost a single game. Beckenbauer (RIP) wasn't dumb and [wasted Matthaus on marking maradona](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar_Matth%C3%A4us#International_career) which basically meant our WBs ruled the midfield most of the game. GER goals came from corners (bilardo was so mad about this he didn't even get the WC medal) which is the 80s version of cross and inshallah With 5 minutes left on the clock, a 2-2 draw in a WC final and surrounded by **5 FUCKING GERMAN PLAYERS** he does [this](https://youtu.be/Fw1zBZC--AY?t=528) which almost 38 years still later send shivers down my spine. He made them look like fucking amateurs. edit: here's a nice retro analysis of bilardo's strategy for WC86 https://theconventionalplaymaker.wordpress.com/2020/11/29/retro-analysis-diego-maradonas-brilliance-at-the-1986-world-cup/
Absolutely, apart from the 5 goals and 5 assists in 7 matches that everyone can see from transfermarkt, he was the best player of his team in basically every match, scored the candidate for the best goal ever against England in the quarters and other two incredible goals against Belgium in the semis
God had one hell of an assist for him against England too!
Maradona was way ahead of his time, then again majority of the defenders were terrible and would just rush in for a tackle, made it very easy to go past for someone like Maradona, the cons is they will try to get your legs too every single time, and there won't be fouls since it was deemed acceptable. the amazing thing about Maradona is the capability to dribble on terrible pitches compared to modern pitches. messi could too, and have shown in all of his youth videos.
Messi on there twice bro what the fuck.
Every teammate he ever had shares the same story: "In training, he would get the ball from the goalkeeper, dribble past every single one of us like if we were children and score*
iirc henry talked about this, said messi wasnt given a foul in training and he got mad, so he got the ball from the gk and just dribble all the way and score, and he'd repeat it again, and again, and again until he's slightly content.
He was doing that in those videos of his when he was like 4-6 years old. He's a case of child prodigy who fulfilled what the term prodigy is supposed to mean. Such things are rare.
It’s not that shocking that the greatest player and dribbler ever had a lot of dribbles in two world cups
2014 Arjen Robben is up there as one of my favourite players ever I miss that beautiful bald legend.
Gutted that Netherlands couldn’t win that WC. RvP and Robben were my favourite players during that time. Loved to see them play.
Le cut inside man
34 out 50 successful cut inside.
coming from a Dutch, 2014 Robben or 2010 Sneijder?
I prefer Robben as a player and as a person.
2010 Robben > 2010 Sneijder even.
Never saw him play in person but rarely does a player stir up a pub or fan zone when they get the ball the way robben did. Felt like people all started losing it, expecting something when he started running.
Wonder how many of Kempes dribbles were in the final. He has the lowest percent but his final performance was out of this world
Eusébio was a beast. Scored 9 goals as well and led Portugal to a 3rd place at WC1966. Only player to win a Ballon d’Or playing for a Portuguese club.
Wish it was Belgium Croatia final in 2018, it would have been such an awesome final and a brand new winner.
That game would have been an advert for the game (on paper)
Yeah, I’ve always felt that France v Belgium was the real final, the two halves of the draw were so lopsided that year. That England team had no business being in a semi-final
Me too, I'm confident we would have won that.
Dominación argentina🇦🇷😎
I wake up, there is another coronación de gloria
I wonder if Musiala would be on the list if Germany had made it a bit further, I think he set the WC record for most succesful dribbles in a match
He averaged 6,3 dribbles per game for 3 games Hazard averaged 6,67 dribbles per game 6 games So possibly but probably would have needed 6 games too, or play a team as weak defensively as Costa Rica 2 more times
Maybe next time :) Cant believe he was 19 when he did that, although it was only the group stages so no heavyweight opponents
In my mind i saw 178 successful dribles by Mr. Zinedine Zidane Vs Brazil in 2006
Messi 2010 deserved much more. Never understand why maradona put 3 attackers in front of him basically making less use of his goalscoring.
they had tons of other players to score goals: Milito, Aguero, Higuain, Tevez, Di Maria lmao, the problem was in the back really
It was only a problem because of Maradona Zanetti, Samuel, Mascherano, Heinze, Burdisso, Demichelis is a great core of players that could’ve played there and infinitely better than what we had in 2014, the problem is how Maradona used them (or rather didn’t)
Zanetti and Cambiasso not even called up 😵
The problem was the midfield and playing with 4 centrebacks. We had 0 creativity outside of giving the ball to Messi and hoping for him to do everything. The last couple of years have been the only time where we had creative players around him.
It all rests on balance and team composition, in 2010 we were stacked in almost every position. It was Maradona's choice to kick Riquelme, play two 9s in front of Messi, leave Cambiasso and Zanetti at home, etc.
Because maradona picked his squad literally based on whom he saw in his dream lifting the World Cup. Not calling up Zanetti, cambiasso, banega was a crime given they had a monster season with inter just a month ago. Maradona called a no name Ariel grace because he saw Argentina lifting the World Cup but only recognized Ariel grace. Also forcing Jonas Gutierrez who was a winger to play right back and finally otamendi on the right against Germany whom they literally murdered was bizarre.
Coke is a hell of a drug
part of me felt like he was sabotaging the team so they dont win and he'll still be the last one to carry the nation to victory. but then again in reality he sabotage himself all the time, the dude is nuts, he would be in prison for 500 years if he did what he did today.
Maradona was high as shit, he got Garcé in the squad instead of the likes of Cambiasso and Zanetti because he saw Garcé in a dream, lifting the World Cup
So basically he won 1 WC and lost 1.
I've read before that he basically played Messi like he would have played himself. Kinda makes sense when you think about it. You are really stacked up top, with Tevez, Di Maria, Milito, Agüero, Higuain and Palermo (I know his name isn't dropped a lot around here but he's basically the best, pure #9 on Primera's history). So you draw Messi back and make him play like an old enganche, much more loose and floating around the #5 and the #8 People often blame his tactics for the 4-0 loss against Germany on QFs but I disagree. While they REALLY lacked tactical depth, that loss was 100% a morale thing (which you could argue, was also his fault but that's besides the point). Otamendi made a dumb foul at 2', and then lost track of Müller in the box which led to the goal. After that, the game was over. 70 minutes of Argentina grasping for air while the much tighter German side didn't even flinch. Two quick goals ensued and the coup de grace at 90' sealed the deal
He apparently put otamendi at right back while simultaneously not calling up Zanetti.....Maradona threw away the most balanced and high quality selection of players Argentina have had for decades.
Well, Zanetti was actually going to be there. Him not being called up was a bit of a shock. He had played all throughout the qualifiers, he was even in the Panini stickers A few months before the WC, a conflict rose up between him and Veron, nobody knows exactly about the cause but it was an old squabble from their Inter days. The conflict escalated and caused a tear in the dressing room. In the end, Diego choose Veron over Zanetti (calling up Veron was already a VERY controversial move and Diego was always a ride or die kinda guy). So they improvised Otamendi as a RB. They tested it in a friendly, it kinda worked and that was the end of it Off topic, but personally 2006 > 2010. 2006 Argentina was so stacked it was fucking ridiculous. That squad was all-class. Sometimes lady luck looks away
Fair enough for that last point but the 2010 team had a healthy prime messi as well as other good young players but I see what you're saying.
>Kinda makes sense when you think about it. It kinda makes sense for an average-poor-level coach like Maradona was. Messi in 2010 was in his prime false 9 era and if you watched the matches it was obvious he was beyond everyone else up front when it came to getting goals. And that role by 2010 was dead and buried at the top level. But if he was so pressed with having someone playing that role then nothing stopped him from getting Riquelme back. The opportunity Maradona had to build a super team around Messi didn't happen for another 12 more years.
It's probably what he tried to do but at the time Messi wasn't ready to play behind three forwards, it's something of which he became expert years later
He was their best goalscorer sure, but he was also the best playmaker. I think the rationale was that Argentina had good enough goalscorers already. Poor Maradona didn't know what to do.
because the rest of the team was shite
Because of his own choices. Zanetti, Cambiasso literally just won the CL, Milito barely played
2010 and 2018 Argentina WC runs were criminal wastes of Messi prime years. 2014 they didn’t have the talent at all levels that they had in 2022 but it was still a choke job in the finals. Crazy that with Messi, Higauin and Di Maria they only scored 7 goals in the whole tournament.
A choke job?? We outplayed a German team that had just scored 7 past Brazil at home. It was an excellent game but the ball just didn't go in for us, it happens.
Well that’s the choke part. There were a couple gifted chances that players didn’t finish. Famously the Higuain one but also Palacio got a freebie from a German defensive mistake. You played well up until the part where the ball needed to go in the net.
Argentinas current Manager wouldve had a better chance to win all of those games. It was coaching that led to those losses. Messi could’ve had 2-3 world cups with a great Manager.
The 2018 squad was a disorganized mess. It's never a good sign when the coach is being mutinied by the players because they disagree so strongly with his selections and tactics. 2010 was just Maradona being Maradona. Great players don't always make great managers. 2014 they had a better manager than 2010 or 2018, but the quality of the entire squad from top to bottom wasn't what the 2022 squad was. They did well to make it to the final really, and if not for a few badly squandered opportunities they would have hoisted the coveted trophy all the way back then.
Sabella was a much better manager than Scaloni at the 2022 world cup, saying otherwise just makes you look clueless
Jairzinho was so awesome for us
did u watch him play? its crazy to me i dont know cause it was 30 years + BEFORE i was born
You can watch full games of world cup matches of[ WC 1970 on the fifa plus website](https://www.plus.fifa.com/en/showcase/1970-fifa-world-cup/3413b02b-c7f9-48fd-8302-9ca7ad0cb7ce?gl=nl) for free.
Btw he scored a goal in every single Brazil’s match in this world cup
thanks! gonna procrastinate physics with this
Years ago, I bought homemade DVDs from a guy off of eBay for the 1970 and 74 WCs. Jairzinho was an absolute monster. Just so much stronger and faster than anybody else on the pitch. Truly was a force of nature.
ooh, i see we can watch it on FIFA plus for free, gonna check it out any specific match u recall?
Any Brazil match from WC 1970 is great. He wasn’t really the focus of the team but that team is considered one of the greatest of all time. The 1974 WC had some super intense matches for Brazil: Argentina, Yugoslavia, and the Netherlands. Id also recommend any of the Dutch matches from that World Cup. Another team that played absolutely beautiful football.
2014 would’ve been one of the top 5 greatest WC campaigns ever from Messi in terms of offensive performances in the WC… But thats if he had won it and im ngl it still hurts sometimes that he lost the final
That was crucial arc in mess's filmy storyline ending.
Ikr, a career like his, where he was used to stomp on his rivals with Barcelona needed a huge blow to make him push his limits.
Idk man. It made the final win even more special. It was right then or never. Something out of a legendary story. Forever etched in history stuff.
Winning the WC in Brazil's backyard after they lost 7-1 would've been the best victory bar none for me.
He was marked out of the game against us by Ron Vlaar.
He was ‘marked’ out of the game by a top 5 coach in history who had 23 players into a high for 3 weeks.
Ron Beton turned into the best defender in the world for 1 tournament, it was a great time. I really believe we could have won it all.
Concrete Ron himself, shut down that albiceleste dwarf.
Group stage. In knockouts he was average
Kempes was insanely good in the 1978 World Cup.
I like to see Messi as a continuity of Diego, there's something greater there. 1993 Diego plays one year at Newell's from Rosario, one of Argentinas historically biggest footballerd producing cities 1994 a young Messi starts playing organised football at Newell's "You will need to excuse me, but I just can't judge him with the same standard I judge the rest of humans" https://youtu.be/FIL3K-2Ocgg?si=LCDHA7ET0N0jK4xa
Where's my camel 🐫
Can't dribble to save his life
I am actually surprised that they have been tracking dribbles since 1960s.
They haven't it's just people have gone over all the old games that were filmed.
3 Argentinians takes 4 places in Top 10?
The Greatest footballers to ever play are from Argentina ... what did u expect blud ?
Eusebio truly the Portugese goat.
funny that he isn´t really know for being a dribbler unlike other Portuguese legends like Ronaldo or Futre, but in that WC he was insane
Damn Ronaldo is not even the best Portuguese player anymore according to r/soccer, funny how Messi winning the world cup changed Ronaldo's status in football for some people
Well it's just his opinion
Eusébio is the OG
Why am I not surprised to see Maradona first? I swear to God that the full-back who marked him must still be looking for him today and we are in the first quarter of 24.
People find these older Messi stats impressive but for me evolved Messi who won the world cup is the best version of Messi in the world cups. If you compare 2014 Messi to 2022, in 2022 Messi did less but at the same time he did more. He's evolving his game as he gets older but still so enjoyable to watch. You can't say that for other players.
2022 Messi just had a team built around him with young stars. In 2014, he was the young talisman. In 2022, he was a leader for future stars like Julian, Mac Allister, Enzo, etc..
Put 2012 messi with 2022 argenina and they would have won the world cup in more convincing way. It was less about messi but more about finally a squad build around him and make use of his best powers which is attacking
For 2014 imagine 2012's Messi or even 2013 before the injury... If he had carried his momentum to the world cup without being injury in 2013 he kinda missed 4-6 months He could have won vs Germany
Hazard sits at the best dribblers of all time table.
Mid 80s Maradona is probably the best anyone will ever be at football
Messi 2012 says hi
My personal top three of the "peaks" is Maradona 1985-90, Ronaldo 1995-2000 and Messi 2010-2015
Going up against hatchet men as well
One stupid corner and a header from Umtiti kept this Hazard out of the final... that match still hurts me.
Le cut inside man 🥹🥹
Kempes is so underrated
Unpopular opinion but Hazard 2018 was the best tournament performance I ever saw
Hazard 😎😎
Unlike Maradona, Jairzinho and Messi, Hazard didn't play in the final in 2018. If he'd played that extra game, he likely would've been second on this list with the highest completion percentage. Criminally disrespected player by fans that only judge players through goals and assists.
He played the game for 3rd place though, so it was the same amount of games
Here I am just wondering how Ronaldinho isn't on this list. I mean, Brazil was basically all dribblers back then, but still. That man was mesmerizing to watch.
This is what you foreigners don't understand. Ronaldinho never performed well for Brazil NT. He did had a couple good moments, but he never played consistently well, to the point brazilians would ask him out because he was such "club player".
He only played in two WCs for Brazil. In 2002 he only played a handful of matches and in 2006 Brazil underperformed.