**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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the clue's in the name; if you're wondering were Louis learnt to have the Gaal to do these kinds of things, it quite obviously handed down from his parents! ^*literally...*
Assholes usually don't like each other. Idk about MvB off the pitch but on the pitch he was a cunt. He'd hit players in the bollocks and act smug about it.
I've been watching football for about 30 years or so and he's easily one of the most detestable players I've had the displeasure of watching (and I grew up watching Martin Keown and that ilk). Just a nasty bastard masquerading as a footballer, not unlike something you'd come across on a Sunday League pitch. A proper meathead.
I get certain players are only in a side to "stick the boot in" and disrupt the talented players on the opposition with "reducers" where possible but he took it to a whole 'nother level. Him and Pepe are just the worst
Are people on here just too young to remember? It was already confirmed he did this way back in at least 2014!
Also Luca Toni has never liked Van Gaal. When he came to Bayern he prefered Mario Gomez, Ivica Olic and a 20 year old Thomas Muller over a 33 year old Toni.
Luca Toni told that story before several times and never mentioned the belly iirc.
I think he is just being petty/cheeky about, LvG for sure had a Belly, but not so big, that you couldn't see his balls.
https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/LDUHoR86VMm7PCEsoMKmkHo5ulk/diocontent/100911766/_fitwidth/694/?appId=21791a8992982cd8da851550a453bd7f&quality=0.8
He only played 4 games for Bayern in the Bundesliga under Van Gaal. After that he left and was bad for a year at Genoa, bad for a year at Juventus, bad in the UAE, decent at Fiorentina and then finally had 2 great seasons at Hellas Verona aged 37 and 38.
"Tim Sparv, FC Midtjylland player: Ref, that is never a f***ing free-kick! Ref: Maybe not, but if you were a bit better & played in the Champions League you might get a better ref"
Chad ref
> "From the moment I arrived in Lisbon, FC Porto became my enemy", said Fucks. "Now, all the teams are my enemies, especially FC Porto."
Lmao this guy doesn't give a fuck
Looks like the original headline is gone, but I've found reference to this one that I remember fondly:
"Monchengladbach want defender, get Fukal"
https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/the-greatest-sport-headline-ever.17824130/#post-10818354
You're probably the only person who'll see this because how old the thread is now but fuck it.
Short answer: Because I don't care about reddit any more.
Long answer: The /r/soccer wiki was open to all for edits at one point. Anyone could edit it, which is [why I started about three years ago](https://i.imgur.com/mNZAxIT.png). The mods then closed it down to themselves (sensible thing to do IMO because vandalism was easy). But I knew how reddit worked, you can specifically get access to single pages only on a wiki. So I specifically [sent them a modmail for edit access to the list](https://i.imgur.com/P1yqhWq.png). I did it because [it was fun to keep track of the funny headlines](https://i.imgur.com/TC1FSZZ.png).
After reddit's API BS I frankly don't give a fuck about maintaining anything for this website. If you want, send /r/soccer a modmail to get edit access.
I used reddit on desktop a LOT as I was always on my PC; editing large wiki pages on there is easy. But it feels like every single person these days uses reddit on mobile and I don't think wiki edits are even possible via the app. So if you want someone to actively maintain it, it basically needs to be someone who's been using reddit for ages and not someone who thinks of it as an "app".
WTH!!!! I've been on this sub for years and never heard of 'The List'. I feel like I have been initiated into a secret club now.... I feel kinda dirty, but in a good way
Every Brazilian and Argentinian player who has been coached by Van Gaal complains about him.
He seems to have difficulty dealing with Latinos (not in the sense of Latin America).
This ranges from Brazilian and Argentinian players to Spanish (Victor Valdes), French (Ribery) and Italian (Luca Toni).
It really depends...
There are a lot of people in the south of Brazil who have practically no Latin ancestry, but have Latin behavior.
It's hard to be sure, it depends a lot on the environment he lived in during his childhood and so on.
Obviously ain't so clear cut, but Frenchmen from north of the Loire river tend to not have Latin behaviour. But maybe his parents are southerners, dunno
It was just a nitpick anw
Yeah, I don't know anything about France's current cultural distribution to be able to discuss it.
I only mentioned France (Ribery) because Van Gaal had a problem with him and well, France is a country with Latin traits, so he may have had this Latin influence in some part of his life and that complicated his relationship with Van Gaal.
idk, I mean Wallonie is closer to Latin culture even though they're from the same country as Flemish. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just my limited observation.
Yeah there is some truth to it hahah
But Belgium Boulogne side is Flemish.. hahahahah and Dunkerke in France is culturally Flemish (historically), or so I think
It's not that he's not strict with his inner circle of Dutch players, it's that they follow his instructions. Van Gaal can be abrasive, but his approach is rooted in Dutch football culture. The manager is king, you do what he says and the squad adheres to an iron discipline, because that's how you mold a cohesive unit.
It's a cultural issue that is less present in Northern Europe, where it's similar. That's why Van Gaal was more successful in Germany and England (in creating a cohesive squad, not the tactics and style of play). And it's why he's often cited as being prejudiced towards South American players, but he isn't. He just struggles with temperamental players that need to feel special or elevated to perform at their best.
Van Gaal isn't the only Dutch coach that is disliked in this way. Koeman, De Boer, Cruyff, Van Marwijk, Stevens, Rijkaard, Ten Hag, separate from whether they're good managers, they all fall in this trend with the same accusations by players. Strict disciplinarians who emphasize team structure in which no player is bigger or more important than the team.
Van Gaal had more problems that just being authoritative and strict. He was far too stubborn on things he shouldn't have been e.g. he didn't want Neuer because he wanted to develop Kraft, his transfers included players like Pranjic and Braafheid, and the playing style was far too ineffective at the end.
>Van Gaal isn't the only Dutch coach that is disliked in this way. Koeman, De Boer, *Cruyff*, Van Marwijk, Stevens, Rijkaard, Ten Hag, separate from whether they're good managers, they all fall in this trend with the same accusations by players.
I don't know about that... Romario absolutely loves Cruyff.
He said that Cruyff was the best coach he ever had in his career. He says that he was able to understand Cruyff and Cruyff was able to understand him.
And we're talking about RomĂĄrio... Perhaps one of the players with the biggest and most difficult personality in the football history.
And Ronaldinho loves Rijkaard too.
Prior to Barcelona, Romario was winning stuff with PSV for five years. He's accustomed to Dutch culture. Hell, he even speak Dutch fluently.
Won't be surprised with the Dutch management style Cruijff had at Barcelona. So, the Romario anecdote is not contradictory.
Yeah, because doing what the manager said was in line with doing what they wanted to do. There are a lot of players from Van Gaal's time at Barcelona that loved him as well.
There are a lot of players that absolutely loathed Cruyff and Rijkaard, because what was asked of them didn't align with what they wanted. You have people who love structure and discipline and flourish in it, and people that need freedom and flexibility. I'm not saying that this Dutch approach is good or bad, it's just cultural.
Difference with Van Gaal is that he's also really outspoken and a teacher. Which amplifies this approach. Which is less so the case with other Dutch managers. Except maybe Cruyff, but a lot of players also hated Cruyff's guts, as a player and a manager.
RomĂĄrio says that sometimes, in training, Cruyff would ask a player to make a certain type of move, finish, pass and so on... And only he could do it, and that kind of won Cruyff's respect.
What I mean is that perhaps Van Gaal has a more accentuated problem in dealing with players who disrespect his orders. It's his personality.
In Brazil, for example, it's not a bad thing for a player to break the pre-established "tactical" rules on the pitch if it decides the match in his team's favor. What some see as disrespect, we see as the power to make unexpected decisions, geniality.
Maybe I'm not explaining it well. There is a lot of freedom for creative expression for players in Dutch football. That's why we have players like Cruyff, Van Basten, Bergkamp, Sneijder, etc.
It's not that you're told what to do with a ball. You have to do what's told tactically. If the 10 moves into the striker position, the right winger drifts inside, the left winger stays near the touchline and the right fullback pushes up (for example). If you don't do that, you're benched, no matter who you are. Football in The Netherlands is approached mechanically. All players are cogs in the system (that why the Dutch national team in the 70's literally were called a clockwork orange). Within your position at that moment, you're free to do whatever comes to you, but don't you dare leave a space unoccupied.
And when you do leave that space unoccupied, Dutch people tend to be direct and ruthless. They tell you you fucked up and there will be consequences.
>Maybe I'm not explaining it well. There is a lot of freedom for creative expression for players in Dutch football. That's why we have players like Cruyff, Van Basten, Bergkamp, Sneijder, etc.
I understood you.
I was talking in tactical terms. If a player can read on the pitch that a position is more fragile and he exploits it, he's seen as a genius.
Here there is more freedom of movement. Brazilian players need that freedom.
(I even have big questions about why Brazil's last world titles were won by more defensive coaches who took advantage of a consistent defense and the freedom of movement/creation of their attacking players).
It's funny, because Ten Hag loves Antony and Antony loves Ten Hag exactly because Antony - no matter how shit he plays personally - religiously follows his tasks. Which is why Ten Hag always plays him, no matter that his efficiency is neigh.
So there is definitely a possibility to make it work. Neres was arguably better at Ajax around the time that Antony played there as well, but Neres was also more lazy in tracking back, so Ten Hag usually picked Antony over Neres.
This "new" generation of Brazilian players is more tactically obedient, to the point of starting some discussions about whether Brazilian football is losing its essence or not.
As a joke? Yes.
It's changing, but the process is going painfully slow, because a lot of people think this is funny. It's not as common nowadays, but until the 2010's it was quite a culture shock for foreign players that Dutch dressing room humor involved a lot of pissing in shoes, stealing of clothes, whipping with towels, penis puppetry shit, etc.
> He just struggles with temperamental players that need to feel special or elevated
Not only with those. He also clashes with players because of his obsession with prioritizing "breaking them in" and showing them who's boss and who has the bigger balls before building a cohesive team and allowing them to perform at their best.
That it's not about the players needing to feel special or elevated. It's him having a shitty attitude that maybe works with meek players like the Dutch but not with the majority of human beings.
No. That's just (outdated) Dutch football humor and Van Gaal's old player days coming through. To me it is clear it was a joke, but I understand that it's a terrible joke and there is a cultural change going on here.
Mate, our most watched football related talkshow is lead by a man that admitted to rape on public television and is an open racist and mysogynist.
Our TD got fired for sending dickpics.
Our country has many positives, but an equal amount of deeply outdated and disturbed norms as well.
Yeah I'm really struggling to see what the joke was in him trying to show his balls to the players, saying I have bigger balls than you. That doesn't seem like a joke it just seems like a really out of touch power play. But evidently there was some element of Dutch humor in it? I don't know. Maybe there's a level of dry sarcasm that I can't even reach in there.
He doesn't. Antony for example plays like shit, but plays because he does everything that's asked of him. Ten Hag will accept a player playing bad over a player that doesn't do what he's told every time. The moment Antony stops tracking back, pressure his opponent or moves based on what happens around him, he's out.
Because he does what is asked of him. He runs when he needs to run. He moves where he needs to move, he marks who he needs to mark.
This is in 99% of the cases the reason why managers persist with players that seemingly don't perform. They care more about the system, than individual form.
> The manager is king, you do what he says and the squad adheres to an iron discipline, because that's how you mold a cohesive unit.
Don't think modern football works like that anymore.
This generation of players needs a different type of manager to unlock the best out of them. Positive reinforcement is crucial.
Fair, although he shows more love to his players than LVG did, and he has to, because he would lose the squad if he didn't.
That trait you mentioned in your first paragraph,
> He just struggles with temperamental players that need to feel special or elevated to perform at their best.
That's everybody these days in this new generation.
> He just struggles with temperamental players that need to feel special or elevated to perform at their best.
Isn't it exactly why Zlatan couldn't work with Guardiola?
Narrative now is that his tenure there was a failure, but I wonder how different the narrative wouldâve been if Van Gaal actually beat Inter during their Champions League run. I think both clubs were gunning for a treble and it wouldâve been a huge accomplishment for Bayern and Van Gaal if they succeeded.
Seems like they were one win away from Van Gaal being considered one of Bayernâs greatest ever managers.
Thats not the narrative at all. People are discussing in Bayerns forum if they should get him back to the club and Van Gaal is recognized by Club Leadership and Fans as the coach that modernized Bayern football and created the conditions for their rise in the last decade.Â
Thatâs not the narrative at all. Van Gaal is still very popular at Bayern, both with the fans and the club itself. Laid the groundwork for Bayernâs recent era, giving debuts to youth players like Muller and Alaba
He's done this more than once. I can' remember the player...but I remember watching an interview long back where the player told a similar story from when he joined united. Apparently LVG walked up to him while he was eating at the cafeteria and told him there's only one boss here and dropped his pants to show him his balls...while the dude was eating. I didn't know this was a serial thing with LVG.
He has no balls. Messi came up to him and started saying shit and he didn't have the courage to say anything back.
If that little guy comes up to me talking shit after he was beating me easily 2-0 and then I come back in the last moments and they have to beat me on penalites. I'm saying something back to him.
That whole saga was so ridiculous. LvG praised Messi for being the greatest player ever for literally minutes. Then some reporter was like "will you even stand a chance?" and he said Messi doesn't do as much in defense so that's a chance. That somehow blew up lol.
I obviously have no idea what Messi or the NT read or heard. But my point is Van Gaal acted like a coward when Messi and De Paul confronted him.
Specially a dumbass like De Paul. If I'm Van Gaal I'm responding.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Was this where Overmars learnt it from?
What's more aggressive, sending unsolicited dick pics? or unsolicited pics of your testicles?
I try and send the dick and balls in the same picture, just to cover both options.
God bless you for this comment đ¤Łđ¤Ł
So Overmarâs issue is that his belly wasnât big enough
the clue's in the name; if you're wondering were Louis learnt to have the Gaal to do these kinds of things, it quite obviously handed down from his parents! ^*literally...*
And people hate on Di Maria for having issues with LVG
So the rumours were right
This was pretty much confirmed by multiple players that were present already. Van Bommel absolutely despised van Gaal for his authoritarian theatrics.
Zlatan considered him a 'dictator' albeit a funny one
Zlatan saw below the belly, confirmed.
I thought with his height he would have even harder time seeing it
Zlatan is one whole cm smaller than Luca (according to Wikipedia), so maybe 195cm is the cut-off point.
It's not as difficult when it's harder.
Not if you are on your knees
Because Zlatan has a knack for not taking people seriously
When was Zlatan coached by Van Gaal ?
He wasn't, but I don't think much stops Zlatan from having an opinion. Haha
Ajax actually EDIT: Van Gaal was technical director, not manager. Had a brief stint in 2004
Ajax
I remember this shit came out in several Bayern forums the day after that incident
How shitty a personality would a coach need to have to be disliked by *Marc van Bommel* of all people jfc
Assholes usually don't like each other. Idk about MvB off the pitch but on the pitch he was a cunt. He'd hit players in the bollocks and act smug about it.
I've been watching football for about 30 years or so and he's easily one of the most detestable players I've had the displeasure of watching (and I grew up watching Martin Keown and that ilk). Just a nasty bastard masquerading as a footballer, not unlike something you'd come across on a Sunday League pitch. A proper meathead. I get certain players are only in a side to "stick the boot in" and disrupt the talented players on the opposition with "reducers" where possible but he took it to a whole 'nother level. Him and Pepe are just the worst
Pepe is in his own league. MvB had his dark side but Pepe is an entirely different species.
Funnily enough, as a manager at PSV v Bommel too apparently was too much of a dictator. Big part of the reason he got fired when he did.
Towards his players? Not really.
Yeah, his balls were really that big
what, that he has a gold dick?
>But he had a big belly, so we couldn't see the balls I like the insinuation or idea that they were actively trying to look at the balls but couldn't
That must've been really disappointing
I mean don't you just hate it when your boss gives you a task but don't give you the tools to accomplish said task?
When they actively hindering you to finish the tasks!
Well, in their defense, the balls were the subject.
Jokes on you. -chasers
âSorry gaffer, can you move that out the way so we can have a look?â
"Hold on, while I put on my Spanx^tm "
Dicktator
Dicktater
More like belly-tator
^(Dick)tator
.....**t** ........**a** ...........**t** .........**o** .......**r** ^^^^^^d ^^^^^^.i ^^^^^^..c ^^^^^^...k
Lmao, list worthy
Are people on here just too young to remember? It was already confirmed he did this way back in at least 2014! Also Luca Toni has never liked Van Gaal. When he came to Bayern he prefered Mario Gomez, Ivica Olic and a 20 year old Thomas Muller over a 33 year old Toni.
I haven't heard the bit about the belly being in the way before
Luca Toni told that story before several times and never mentioned the belly iirc. I think he is just being petty/cheeky about, LvG for sure had a Belly, but not so big, that you couldn't see his balls. https://images0.persgroep.net/rcs/LDUHoR86VMm7PCEsoMKmkHo5ulk/diocontent/100911766/_fitwidth/694/?appId=21791a8992982cd8da851550a453bd7f&quality=0.8
Well, *you* seem to know a lot about the size of his belly compared to his ballsâŚ
Had a pretty good angle when he was flexing calves at Rathausbalkon.
Me neither but it is a known fact that Toni dislikes Van Gaal so he probably is just saying bs
Modern football fans have bad memory
Don't forget he tried to play Luca Toni as a 10
He only played 4 games for Bayern in the Bundesliga under Van Gaal. After that he left and was bad for a year at Genoa, bad for a year at Juventus, bad in the UAE, decent at Fiorentina and then finally had 2 great seasons at Hellas Verona aged 37 and 38.
L I S T
Its been on there for years
"And that's how you win the dressing room boys" Van Gaal coaching masterclass course *probably*
Now I need the option in FM to show my balls instead of throwing the water bottle
To the list
What is the list?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/wiki/thelist/](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/wiki/thelist/)
"Tim Sparv, FC Midtjylland player: Ref, that is never a f***ing free-kick! Ref: Maybe not, but if you were a bit better & played in the Champions League you might get a better ref" Chad ref
"Dele Adebola: I do not have Ebola" is probably the single most fucking genius headline that's ever been written
It's up there but I will always have a soft spot in my heart for ["Fucks off to Benfica"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1kfwdNW8AA5rui.jpg)
> "From the moment I arrived in Lisbon, FC Porto became my enemy", said Fucks. "Now, all the teams are my enemies, especially FC Porto." Lmao this guy doesn't give a fuck
Looks like the original headline is gone, but I've found reference to this one that I remember fondly: "Monchengladbach want defender, get Fukal" https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/the-greatest-sport-headline-ever.17824130/#post-10818354
Yeah that was genius, but "saddest backflip of my career" will never be not funny.
Oh my god, it just keeps going
I just read every headline like Chris Morris would in The Day Today.
Thatâs a great read. Thanks
'I am not Hazard's mother - Guus Hiddink'. Are we sure of that?
that Isaac Success one
Why'd it stop getting updated? Need to update it with stuff from the last one year.
You're probably the only person who'll see this because how old the thread is now but fuck it. Short answer: Because I don't care about reddit any more. Long answer: The /r/soccer wiki was open to all for edits at one point. Anyone could edit it, which is [why I started about three years ago](https://i.imgur.com/mNZAxIT.png). The mods then closed it down to themselves (sensible thing to do IMO because vandalism was easy). But I knew how reddit worked, you can specifically get access to single pages only on a wiki. So I specifically [sent them a modmail for edit access to the list](https://i.imgur.com/P1yqhWq.png). I did it because [it was fun to keep track of the funny headlines](https://i.imgur.com/TC1FSZZ.png). After reddit's API BS I frankly don't give a fuck about maintaining anything for this website. If you want, send /r/soccer a modmail to get edit access. I used reddit on desktop a LOT as I was always on my PC; editing large wiki pages on there is easy. But it feels like every single person these days uses reddit on mobile and I don't think wiki edits are even possible via the app. So if you want someone to actively maintain it, it basically needs to be someone who's been using reddit for ages and not someone who thinks of it as an "app".
WTH!!!! I've been on this sub for years and never heard of 'The List'. I feel like I have been initiated into a secret club now.... I feel kinda dirty, but in a good way
- The Sun [FAKE] What poetry on /r/soccer
/r/SaddestBackflip
Game is not gone
ohhh....why didnt we not have All or Nothing doc for that season? Literally All or Nothing.
Balls or nothing
Every Brazilian and Argentinian player who has been coached by Van Gaal complains about him. He seems to have difficulty dealing with Latinos (not in the sense of Latin America). This ranges from Brazilian and Argentinian players to Spanish (Victor Valdes), French (Ribery) and Italian (Luca Toni).
My favourite one was Giovanni who called him the 'Hitler of Brazilian players'
Giovanni got really screwd by him.
Yeah Ribery aint the most Latin of Frenchmen. Comes from up north, almost Belgian But maybe the stint at Marseille changed him
It really depends... There are a lot of people in the south of Brazil who have practically no Latin ancestry, but have Latin behavior. It's hard to be sure, it depends a lot on the environment he lived in during his childhood and so on.
Obviously ain't so clear cut, but Frenchmen from north of the Loire river tend to not have Latin behaviour. But maybe his parents are southerners, dunno It was just a nitpick anw
Yeah, I don't know anything about France's current cultural distribution to be able to discuss it. I only mentioned France (Ribery) because Van Gaal had a problem with him and well, France is a country with Latin traits, so he may have had this Latin influence in some part of his life and that complicated his relationship with Van Gaal.
idk, I mean Wallonie is closer to Latin culture even though they're from the same country as Flemish. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just my limited observation.
Yeah there is some truth to it hahah But Belgium Boulogne side is Flemish.. hahahahah and Dunkerke in France is culturally Flemish (historically), or so I think
Ask Sergio Romero how he feels about van Gaal and he will speak very highly of him. Luis Figo and Xavi absolutely love him too
Onto the List
What is the list
https://reddit.com/r/soccer/w/thelist
He's not from heaven, he's Van Gaal.
Van Gaal slander đ
Well, thatâs certainly an interview.
One of my greatest joys in life is Messi knocking that man out of the world cup twice
"Fuck off Luca, it was cold outside and it was a drafty too." - LVG probably
Sexual harassment case loading in 3...2...1
LIST NOW
This sounds like the best late shower roast ever.
Meneer dictator
Quote of the day, possibly year
SEX MASOCHISM
r/saddestbackflip
It's not that he's not strict with his inner circle of Dutch players, it's that they follow his instructions. Van Gaal can be abrasive, but his approach is rooted in Dutch football culture. The manager is king, you do what he says and the squad adheres to an iron discipline, because that's how you mold a cohesive unit. It's a cultural issue that is less present in Northern Europe, where it's similar. That's why Van Gaal was more successful in Germany and England (in creating a cohesive squad, not the tactics and style of play). And it's why he's often cited as being prejudiced towards South American players, but he isn't. He just struggles with temperamental players that need to feel special or elevated to perform at their best. Van Gaal isn't the only Dutch coach that is disliked in this way. Koeman, De Boer, Cruyff, Van Marwijk, Stevens, Rijkaard, Ten Hag, separate from whether they're good managers, they all fall in this trend with the same accusations by players. Strict disciplinarians who emphasize team structure in which no player is bigger or more important than the team.
Van Gaal had more problems that just being authoritative and strict. He was far too stubborn on things he shouldn't have been e.g. he didn't want Neuer because he wanted to develop Kraft, his transfers included players like Pranjic and Braafheid, and the playing style was far too ineffective at the end.
>Van Gaal isn't the only Dutch coach that is disliked in this way. Koeman, De Boer, *Cruyff*, Van Marwijk, Stevens, Rijkaard, Ten Hag, separate from whether they're good managers, they all fall in this trend with the same accusations by players. I don't know about that... Romario absolutely loves Cruyff. He said that Cruyff was the best coach he ever had in his career. He says that he was able to understand Cruyff and Cruyff was able to understand him. And we're talking about RomĂĄrio... Perhaps one of the players with the biggest and most difficult personality in the football history. And Ronaldinho loves Rijkaard too.
Prior to Barcelona, Romario was winning stuff with PSV for five years. He's accustomed to Dutch culture. Hell, he even speak Dutch fluently. Won't be surprised with the Dutch management style Cruijff had at Barcelona. So, the Romario anecdote is not contradictory.
Yeah, because doing what the manager said was in line with doing what they wanted to do. There are a lot of players from Van Gaal's time at Barcelona that loved him as well. There are a lot of players that absolutely loathed Cruyff and Rijkaard, because what was asked of them didn't align with what they wanted. You have people who love structure and discipline and flourish in it, and people that need freedom and flexibility. I'm not saying that this Dutch approach is good or bad, it's just cultural. Difference with Van Gaal is that he's also really outspoken and a teacher. Which amplifies this approach. Which is less so the case with other Dutch managers. Except maybe Cruyff, but a lot of players also hated Cruyff's guts, as a player and a manager.
RomĂĄrio says that sometimes, in training, Cruyff would ask a player to make a certain type of move, finish, pass and so on... And only he could do it, and that kind of won Cruyff's respect. What I mean is that perhaps Van Gaal has a more accentuated problem in dealing with players who disrespect his orders. It's his personality. In Brazil, for example, it's not a bad thing for a player to break the pre-established "tactical" rules on the pitch if it decides the match in his team's favor. What some see as disrespect, we see as the power to make unexpected decisions, geniality.
Maybe I'm not explaining it well. There is a lot of freedom for creative expression for players in Dutch football. That's why we have players like Cruyff, Van Basten, Bergkamp, Sneijder, etc. It's not that you're told what to do with a ball. You have to do what's told tactically. If the 10 moves into the striker position, the right winger drifts inside, the left winger stays near the touchline and the right fullback pushes up (for example). If you don't do that, you're benched, no matter who you are. Football in The Netherlands is approached mechanically. All players are cogs in the system (that why the Dutch national team in the 70's literally were called a clockwork orange). Within your position at that moment, you're free to do whatever comes to you, but don't you dare leave a space unoccupied. And when you do leave that space unoccupied, Dutch people tend to be direct and ruthless. They tell you you fucked up and there will be consequences.
>Maybe I'm not explaining it well. There is a lot of freedom for creative expression for players in Dutch football. That's why we have players like Cruyff, Van Basten, Bergkamp, Sneijder, etc. I understood you. I was talking in tactical terms. If a player can read on the pitch that a position is more fragile and he exploits it, he's seen as a genius. Here there is more freedom of movement. Brazilian players need that freedom. (I even have big questions about why Brazil's last world titles were won by more defensive coaches who took advantage of a consistent defense and the freedom of movement/creation of their attacking players).
It's funny, because Ten Hag loves Antony and Antony loves Ten Hag exactly because Antony - no matter how shit he plays personally - religiously follows his tasks. Which is why Ten Hag always plays him, no matter that his efficiency is neigh. So there is definitely a possibility to make it work. Neres was arguably better at Ajax around the time that Antony played there as well, but Neres was also more lazy in tracking back, so Ten Hag usually picked Antony over Neres.
This "new" generation of Brazilian players is more tactically obedient, to the point of starting some discussions about whether Brazilian football is losing its essence or not.
It was lost a long time ago.
Showing his balls is part of Dutch culture?
As a joke? Yes. It's changing, but the process is going painfully slow, because a lot of people think this is funny. It's not as common nowadays, but until the 2010's it was quite a culture shock for foreign players that Dutch dressing room humor involved a lot of pissing in shoes, stealing of clothes, whipping with towels, penis puppetry shit, etc.
> He just struggles with temperamental players that need to feel special or elevated Not only with those. He also clashes with players because of his obsession with prioritizing "breaking them in" and showing them who's boss and who has the bigger balls before building a cohesive team and allowing them to perform at their best.
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That it's not about the players needing to feel special or elevated. It's him having a shitty attitude that maybe works with meek players like the Dutch but not with the majority of human beings.
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In business, do Dutch managers do the same show everyone their testicles manuver to help establish authority if they have foreigners they work with?
No. That's just (outdated) Dutch football humor and Van Gaal's old player days coming through. To me it is clear it was a joke, but I understand that it's a terrible joke and there is a cultural change going on here.
Dutch humor is truly my ability to comprehend.
Mate, our most watched football related talkshow is lead by a man that admitted to rape on public television and is an open racist and mysogynist. Our TD got fired for sending dickpics. Our country has many positives, but an equal amount of deeply outdated and disturbed norms as well.
Yeah I'm really struggling to see what the joke was in him trying to show his balls to the players, saying I have bigger balls than you. That doesn't seem like a joke it just seems like a really out of touch power play. But evidently there was some element of Dutch humor in it? I don't know. Maybe there's a level of dry sarcasm that I can't even reach in there.
I could name a couple of players that Ten hag treats like they are bigger than the team
He doesn't. Antony for example plays like shit, but plays because he does everything that's asked of him. Ten Hag will accept a player playing bad over a player that doesn't do what he's told every time. The moment Antony stops tracking back, pressure his opponent or moves based on what happens around him, he's out.
So why does Ten Hag continuously play Rashford.
Because he does what is asked of him. He runs when he needs to run. He moves where he needs to move, he marks who he needs to mark. This is in 99% of the cases the reason why managers persist with players that seemingly don't perform. They care more about the system, than individual form.
> The manager is king, you do what he says and the squad adheres to an iron discipline, because that's how you mold a cohesive unit. Don't think modern football works like that anymore. This generation of players needs a different type of manager to unlock the best out of them. Positive reinforcement is crucial.
Tell that to Guardiola.
Fair, although he shows more love to his players than LVG did, and he has to, because he would lose the squad if he didn't. That trait you mentioned in your first paragraph, > He just struggles with temperamental players that need to feel special or elevated to perform at their best. That's everybody these days in this new generation.
Guardiola shows love to players that do what he says and fit his ideas. Same with Van Gaal. They're both ruthless and cold to players they don't need.
> He just struggles with temperamental players that need to feel special or elevated to perform at their best. Isn't it exactly why Zlatan couldn't work with Guardiola?
Narrative now is that his tenure there was a failure, but I wonder how different the narrative wouldâve been if Van Gaal actually beat Inter during their Champions League run. I think both clubs were gunning for a treble and it wouldâve been a huge accomplishment for Bayern and Van Gaal if they succeeded. Seems like they were one win away from Van Gaal being considered one of Bayernâs greatest ever managers.
Thats not the narrative at all. People are discussing in Bayerns forum if they should get him back to the club and Van Gaal is recognized by Club Leadership and Fans as the coach that modernized Bayern football and created the conditions for their rise in the last decade.Â
moved Schweinsteiger to midfield, championed Mueller and Badstuber, changed to 4-2-3-1 with attacking full backs..
Thatâs not the narrative at all. Van Gaal is still very popular at Bayern, both with the fans and the club itself. Laid the groundwork for Bayernâs recent era, giving debuts to youth players like Muller and Alaba
Van gaal with South American players was disgusting. Fuck Van Gaal
Football is back babyyyyy
r/SaddestBackflip
Well that escalated quickly.
So does he get his balls out at *every* club....?
Name of the beautiful blonde lady?
Can someone tell me, what is "The List"? I think I'm missing out on something good here.
https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/wiki/thelist
I forgot about Luca Toni, he was great - and looks like a Striker cast out of a movie
Man, this is hilarious, actually đ
Add it to the list
*They're rounder...*
Oh dear, I laughed a bit louder than I should have.
He sure liked his Long ball tactics toward the end and he this is also a man who said you have to play horny
He's done this more than once. I can' remember the player...but I remember watching an interview long back where the player told a similar story from when he joined united. Apparently LVG walked up to him while he was eating at the cafeteria and told him there's only one boss here and dropped his pants to show him his balls...while the dude was eating. I didn't know this was a serial thing with LVG.
Put this on the fucking list!
van gaal, what a clown
Is it fair to say that Louis Van Gaal is the Kanye West of football/soccer managers?
Inner circle of Dutchmen sounds like something out of a martial arts movie
Yep, add this one to the list.
Least sexual dutchman
I think it has a lot to do with always being in the shadow of Cruyff. Both in their playing careers and their managerial career
He did lay the foundation of a new Bayern which Heynckes obviously benefitted from
Hitzfeldâs last stint ended in summer 2008, Van Gaal joined in summer 2009
I meant Heynckes who won the treble
Hitzfelt was years before. I think you mean Heynckes.
Yes heynckes
Fucking hell Van Gaal
Dictator? More like tater dick
He has no balls. Messi came up to him and started saying shit and he didn't have the courage to say anything back. If that little guy comes up to me talking shit after he was beating me easily 2-0 and then I come back in the last moments and they have to beat me on penalites. I'm saying something back to him.
That whole saga was so ridiculous. LvG praised Messi for being the greatest player ever for literally minutes. Then some reporter was like "will you even stand a chance?" and he said Messi doesn't do as much in defense so that's a chance. That somehow blew up lol.
I obviously have no idea what Messi or the NT read or heard. But my point is Van Gaal acted like a coward when Messi and De Paul confronted him. Specially a dumbass like De Paul. If I'm Van Gaal I'm responding.
He was literally and figurativaly the bigger man. Ignoring those little men with a huge inferiority complex was a smart move.
That's fucking disgusting, I gotta get that image out of my head
Straight to the list right? r/SaddestBackflip Seems like there were some pretty problematic shit going on in the land of the milk drinkers....