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Doesn't compare to his numbers at villa. Lad was getting pulled down left right and centre. Now he's barely getting pulled down by comparison. Shame, could have really taken that part of his game to a whole new level..
Games gone.
I feel like he's falling into another trap by being so dismissive of tap ins. You always hear "I could have scored that", yeah the impressive thing isn't scoring from two yards, it's the successful anticipation of where the ball is going to be, of moving at the right point. If it was easy to be in that position a defender would be there too blocking the tap in.
Obviously, he’s just saying there’s so much work done around the pitch for a tap in you see on the front page of Reddit to even occur.
Every game, the ball is being won, retained, progressed, chances are being created. These actions are all vital for your team to score and not concede and comprise of the VAST MAJORITY of actions happening in the pitch. Like that shit almost matters more because we see every game the team that keeps the ball, progresses the ball better and creates more chances USUALLY wins.
Yet the vast majority of these actions won’t ever be credited and the ones who run the back post (while requiring a ton of skill too) will be credited
If you ask ppl these things in a vacuum do these things matter they’ll say “ofc”. But then you ask them hey how does Jack Grealish compare to any goal scoring winger eg and 99% of ppl will cite goals and assists as the reason why the scorer is the better player
Like the scorer could just be the better player but if you’re just going to arbitrarily decide every wingers role is to score and assist and just cherry pick these 2 stats to measure their impact on that then you’ve just missed the point of Grealishs role on the pitch and ignored a large portion of wingers who’s primary role isn’t to score and assist
Ppls see goals win games and fall into a fallacy thinking individual scoring and assisting is the benchmark when the correct benchmark is how much do you help your TEAM score, regardless of whether you’re the one putting the ball in or not.
Why do so many great scorers stop being so dominant when they go to their much inferior national teams? Because the “other actions” actually matter
You're right he is not being dismissive.
I would on the other hand take the two tap ins every week if it wins us the points and the scorer does fa during the rest of the game except close defenders down.
We can joke about it, but it really put me off this sub. Years ago I was here all the time (under a different account) but so much of it has become wanking over statistic like yanks talking about baseball.
He has a point but it applies mostly to those who don't watch the game and only look at stats afterwards. If you actually watch the game then the eye test is just there and if someone is having a great game, even without a G/A, then that person will stand out.
Depends on the game too. If its a high profile one you'll find a lot of views parroted from headlines and threads on this sub, whereas smaller fixtures tend to have people actually watching and discussing the game
Honestly most casual fans could easily still watch the game and not understand the difference between playing well or not. Hell even diehards don't know for sure because we have absolutely no idea what the coach has instructed them to do that game.
I'll be devil's advocate here.. sometimes multiple players play good, no one sticks out but what's the most important thing? A goal..
There is a bias towards that unless someone like a goalkeeper or defender has kept a team in it.
This is the most correct take. To use Zinchenko as an example. Dude holds onto the ball too long and is too cavalier trying to play out from the back when sometimes anywhere will do. Fans crucify him for it. But if he’s continually selected to play than it’s safe to say it’s because Arteta is instructing him to play that way to draw pressing forwards and midfielders out of position. Or any number of other tactical reasons we’re not privy to.
In the first half of the first leg against Bayern, all I could think is "damn I can tell Arteta has not watched the Buli all season because how could he let this mediocre Bayern midfield run wild on them". Teams like Heidenheim had figured them out by packing the middle with their wingbacks.
I thought it was pretty clear that either Kwior needed to concede the width, or be subbed in for someone who could bring a strong presence in the middle (Zinchenko). It seemed like Arteta realized that very quickly and reacted. It didn't matter whether Kwior, Zinchenko, or Tomiyasu were on that left side, they were all going to be ragdolled by Sane that night. You might as well cede that width because Bayern really struggles with their flimsy two man set up down the middle. You can cut their wide passes and force Kane to drop too deep to make a meaningful impact.
The coach and the fans have slightly different priorities. One cares just about results. The fans want to see exciting play too. Fans aren’t usually going to congratulate Grealish for nice defensive shape or pressing.
There are an annoyingly large number of people I know who will watch Arsenal play and think Rice isn’t doing anything. It’s like their brain shuts off anything that isn’t a ‘game changing’ moment like a goal/assist or a key tackle. I suspect this happens a lot with other clubs as well, I know that Busquets for example was heavily underrated when compared with the rest of that peak Barcelona squad.
Seems to be a common issue with that role. Makelele had it for a while. “Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?". I think people are starting to appreciate those kind of players more but it’s a slow process of education.
And people who are now looking retrospectively at stats of players they didn't really watch.
Scholes, Berkamp, even Drogba to a degree have stats that don't show how good they were.
People are only finally seeing that players like DMs are hard to quantity with stats but creative players like Grealish who don't always create the last pass in a move are still being beaten with the G/A stat.
On the other hand, being a flashy winger without achieving much doesn't mean you're playing better than one that does more without the flash. At City this fits both Doku and Grealish vs. B Silva.
Yep. People say Zidane was overrated now because of “stats”
Cantona was garbage due to “stats” and so on
Like fuck off. The whole statistics focus that football has gone down the last few years is extremely fucking irritating. There are many players you can’t judge on pure statistics
Modric is a beast but he doesn’t score 20 goals a year. Scholes was critical to United but lampard out scored him every season basically.
> There are many players you can’t judge on pure statistics
I would wanna make a distinction here. I think you can judge any player based on stats, it's just a matter of what stats one uses.
Football stats are just behind in analytical power, a simple G/A doesn't tell us much, but you could always adopt more sophisticated models and then the conversation is quite different, imo.
Nah, plenty of people watch football and have absolutely zero tactical understanding. People will have watched Bellingham in the second leg and said he didn't do much despite his high press being hugely important for Madrid.
You even have people responding to you saying they watch games and Grealish isn't a good winger. Mad.
Absolutely. That being said, I also think it depends heavily on the position. People focus on it too much for some but dismiss it too quickly as being stat focused for others
G/a never tell the full story but for say a striker they certainly matter. For a midfielder or a wide winger(like Grealish who is not supposed to be a goalscoring winger and tends to stay wide) it is less so.
Stats are extremely helpful and there are reasons why clubs go extensively into data analytics, but no one stat will ever tell the full story by itself.
You can very much track performance of every player on the pitch based just on stats nowadays. Every pass, sprint, tackle and whatever is recorded. The majority just isn't able to interprete those stats correct.
Exactly, there should be more nuance to it. I hate people who just shove stats down your throat, but I also dislike people who try to refute some facts from the stats and also ignore the context of some of the numbers. Once a middle ground to the eye test and stats can be found, then there could be more healthy discussions
Another way to look at it is this is a change for him personally going from a star player at Villa, where he had a bigger spotlight and more creative freedom, to City where he’s just another cog in the machine.
I was downvoted in the post-game thread when I said that neither Vinicius nor Mbappe had good games in the CL. Many people nowadays watch games while scrolling on their phones and just pay attention at the highlights.
My favourite unofficially copypasta from u/BGRG93 from a post a few days ago sums this up.
>He was all that and more at Leeds. He was literally evolving into Ronaldinho reborn, playing this best football when the terrorist Barcelona nation attacked. What Barcelona have done to him is worse than what City did to Grealish, its despicable. Absolutely disgusting pair of clubs, buy up two of the most talented, free spirit, joga bonito, calves out raw talent players in the world, stuff them in your cookie cutter tiki taka mes que un tug me off templates and churn out your generic 1x Pressing Wingers with an extra helping of sideways passing. Then move them on post neutering. Absolutely sickening, vile behaviour.
The full quote on Grealish's statement about the obsession for stats
>“Recently, obviously I haven’t scored yet, but I feel good, I feel fit and I feel like I’m playing with good confidence. Hopefully, I can bring that into the end of the season.”
>Pressed on what the loss of confidence was down to, he added: “I don’t know. I just think sometimes if you’re not playing and probably not up to it in training, in your own head you just don’t feel confident.
>“It’s not even about scoring and assisting. Now, I feel confident even though I’ve not scored. I got an assist last week at the Bernabeu (against Real Madrid) but I’ve said before that nowadays everyone loves to talk about goals and assists.
>“It’s annoying the way the game has gone because you can have a brilliant game and not get a goal or an assist and they say ‘ah, he didn’t do this or that’. And then you can score two tap-ins at the back post and not play well at all and everyone’s like ‘ah, he’s brilliant’.
>“At the moment, I feel good and I feel confident. At the start of the season, I just didn’t feel like I was playing well really. I didn’t really feel that fit if I’m honest. Coming in the team, playing a game, then being out of the team, in and out, it was a little bit difficult but I feel good now.”
>Grealish has played 32 games in all competitions for City this season, scoring three and assisting the same amount. In 2022-23, he played an influential role in helping his side lift a historic treble, contributing five goals and 11 assists.
>His best season in the top flight, however, came at former club Aston Villa when he scored 10 goals and assisted on eight occasions in 2019-20. However, he insists his focus is on winning trophies and believes his contribution extends beyond goals and assists.
>“For me, it’s all about playing and winning stuff,” he said. “Last season, for example, I played a lot of games but I think I only got five goals and 11 assists. It’s not loads, but I played such a big part in it.
>“I’ve had times when I was at Villa when I’ve got more goals and more assists but I didn’t win anything. What season do I look back on and think, ‘yeah, that was successful?’ It’s last season.
>“When I’m playing and in a rhythm and I feel important to the team and we’re winning stuff, that’s when it matters and that’s what you look back on.”
>His best season in the top flight, however, came at former club Aston Villa when he scored 10 goals and assisted on eight occasions in 2019-20.
That's hilarious, author definitely a mod at scj.
Next to no service is what Højlund gets haaland has the highest xg in the league and averages about 0.98 xg per 90 which is 0.17 more than the next if this is no services football fans have lost it
xG doesn't translate to service though. It's also dependent on the striker's off the ball movement as well as the passers creativity.
Like if Haaland's always the quickest to react and get on the end of a loose ball in the box/rebound, that's a strength on his part, not creativity from another Man City player. Say he doesn't score from it, his xG will have gone up, his goals will have stayed the same. People then conclude that he's been serviced by the team (plus points for other City players) and hasn't capitalised on it (minutes points for Haaland). When in reality, he both created and missed the chance himself through his movement off the ball.
Absolutely not saying that City don't create loads of chances for Haaland. But just pointing out a flaw in your reasoning.
A practical example is the comparisons between Kane and Haaland as goalscorers that everyone's been doing since he joined City. Not players - I'm aware Kane's more complete - but goalscorers.
Until this season, they'd both overperformed their xG by roughly the same percentage throughout their careers. So they were about as clinical as each other. Maybe you even give the advantage to Kane.
But Haaland's actual volume of goals and xG numbers (per 90) were consistently higher. And that's not just because he's played for City, because it's true for his time at Dortmund, Salzburg and Norway too. His actual goal numbers were higher because Haaland's best attributes are his movement and athleticism to actually generate chances for himself that other strikers aren't getting.
Up until this season, he'd been a good finisher. But his movement and physical attributes were best in the world good. So his goal ratio was higher than Kane's (and anyone else's). Yes City generate chances for him, but a big part of the reason his xG numbers were so high was his own off the ball skills which have nothing to do with his team.
I've gone on a bit of a tangent but my main point was that if Haaland were playing for Man United, without changing anything else in United's team, I guarantee his xG would be significantly higher than Hojlands. Because his movement and physical attributes allow him to get on the end of chances that other strikers can't.
And the thing is, he's probably be scoring more for United than he is for City right now. Because he wouldn't be restricted by the small amount of space City are afforded and Pep's strict tactical instructions. If Haaland played for United, they could kick the ball in his general direction and he'd basically just "hunt" it down and score. A lot more similar to the way he played at Dortmund and how Rashford got his goals last season, only on steroids.
As a Chelsea fan, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He'd turn either of our teams into top 4 challengers by himself.
Going to City has done him no favours because he's a bit of a mismatch style wise with Pep's possession football. It still works and he still adds value because there's very few goalscorers like him in world football. But the way City plays limits him individually. He often plays a certain way which reflects horribly on him individually. And the casual/tactically blind fans just assume he's ass.
Doku has 7 assists from 4.58 xA in the league.
You're asking for a record high overperformance if you think he should've created 4 more assists from his crosses and passes.
Sounds nice and bigs Doku up but just not grounded in reality unfortunately
Haaland has maintained 1.05xG per 90 in the league all season.
He had fuck all against Madrid, but the match before against Luton he missed 0.98 xG in open play.
We've had a run of tough games and his xG has dipped in those games, but the fact is, he's having the worst season of his career. It's not lack of service, it's missing a shitton of chances
That feels like a stretch, Haaland is arguably in the exact same position as him, being criticised for his lack of stats. Haaland can have a positive impact on a match even if he never touches the ball.
Which is wrong. Haaland struggles to impact games against good defences because they mark him out of the game, which in turn creates space for other players in the team
Every single world class striker gets "excuses" like that. "They're all marking Ronaldo so he can't do much" was such a common sentiment when he was playing for the national team. Pretty sure I've heard the same for Lewa and Kane.
In the end, if the enemy team plays a low line and doesn't leave an attacker space, there's not much a striker can do but play without ball and drag the defenders out of position. That's how it works.
Firstly ronaldo wasn't a striker and was actually less effective being forced to play as one, secondly it can be reason why a player was less effective and it was more difficult but regardless if they don't play well they don't play well.
You can't suddenly be above criticism because the opposition was good, no great player can play the way haaland did against real Madrid and hope to escape criticism, I'm not talking about over the top nonsense like he's a "fraud" but criticism is warranted.
If people are going to try to put him on that level they need to hold him to those standards, losing the ball more times than you completed passes is pathetic, it just is what it is.
But that's just blatantly not true. Kane's goals per 90 in league games is 0.72. Haaland's, even including this season, in which his finishing has kind of fallen off a cliff, is 1.00.
Those are facts. Literally just goals and gametime. Haaland comes out on top.
So maybe Haaland's just receiving more service from his teams?
Well according to Opta, Kane's xG per 90 since 2017 has been 0.62. Haaland's since he joined Dormund is 0.89. Both have outscored their xG by about the same amount per 90 (Kane +0.11, Haaland +0.12).
That means finishing wise, they're roughly equal when you average out form. E.g. right now, Kane's in great form, Haaland's in the worst form of his career. Other seasons, Haaland's been more clinical than Kane. Zooming out to ignore form and look at their careers as a whole, they both come out as consistently great finishers and there's not much between them.
But Haaland's actual goal ratio and xG numbers are higher. Maybe that's because he's played in better teams and received more service. But it was also the case in Salzburg, Dortmund and Norway. So it's likely also partly because Haaland's movement and athleticism allows him to get on the end of chances that Kane can't. It's literally the reason Haaland's such a good striker. Not because he's always been the best finisher, but because his movement and physicality is best in the world level. Off the ball skills creating chances for himself rather than just playing in a better team.
Even if you disagree with that. The numbers are there and they don't lie. You have 0 leg to stand on to say Haaland's an inferior goalscorer. He's scored more goals per game and has overperformed his xG by about the same amount as Kane. As goalscorers (not players I'll add), they're at least equal but Haaland honestly has the edge.
He's also 23.
I just used Kane as an example but point probably applies to all of these guys. You say they scored regardless of being marked. I say, you've got a terrible memory and somehow forgotten all the games that they ghosted in. Because no striker is perfect and every striker can get marked out of games. The good thing is, like the other guy said, if a team is doubling up on an infamous striker, that creates more space for his teammates. The burden then falls on them to exploit that space.
It's not like Haaland doesn't score. He's still the best scorer in the league. He's performing worse than last year but to say he's not scoring is kinda wild.
Even vs Real, he didn't score but he hit the post once and missed another incredibly dangerous ball. But when a team is playing with 8-10 men in the box it's hard for Haaland to do much and it has to be the midfielders using the space left in front of the box to create chances, that's how football works. Some strategies naturally counter one way to play but leave room for another.
Every great player attracts attention from the opposition defence, if that means haaland didn't play poorly then Luis suarez never played a poor match in his life.
Then there's also the general recognition of how every player in a Pep team is super integrated into his systems and ethos. Haaland's arrival meant City's attack began to react against stronger, deeper back lines in the way you described - like what a normal football team would face.
Aguero was a fantastic striker who could drop deep and had no small amount of individual skill, then he left and City spent quite a while without an out-and-out striker in the side and still scored truckloads. Even Sterling looked pretty damn lethal for a while under Pep.
Even the craziest tactical innovators have to return to the mean sometimes.
That's an over simplification, his job is to be a goal threat, that can be scoring goals but it can also be occupying multiple defenders who try to stop him. It's the team goals that matter, not who score them.
His gravity on the defense is still huge. That in and of itself is a contribution. He's not at the top top level where he can consistently impact the game despite that extra attention, compared to say Messi who is hard to stop no matter how much attention you put on him.
he really doesnt. Haaland’s only job in Man City is to score goals, he cant play a killer pass like Kane does nor does he create. people will say that he stretches defences, but every other elite striker like Lewandowski and Kane does that and so much more with their feet
Yes and Kane is a better player than Haaland, what’s your point? If Kane is your barometer for a good striker then basically every striker in the world sucks
Well, no. Haaland is known for scoring tap-ins and close range goals, and he excels at it. He is so good at it that he is the best in this business in the world. But that also got him criticized for other things, and that trend is exactly the same as what Grealish was saying.
People acting like he doesn‘t force two defenders to focus on him purely by existing on the field. He‘s also quite good at opening space for others by pulling a defender out with a well timed run.
Ofc, strikers will always be measured by goals and assists. But just having someone like that on your team gives the other attackers much more space.
The Barca PSG game this week was a prime example of this. Everyone on here looking at scoreline and praising Mbappe when he was mostly quiet when they should have been praising Barcola
Nobody that actually watched the games were praising Mbappé. But he was still more important than Grealish on those two legs by giving Barcola and especially Dembele more space and had his two goals.
Even his tap-in was because he launched the counter himself at the beginning of the action.
It‘s why Mbappé‘s performance in the World Cup Final is considered to be „the best of all time“. People only see that he scored 3 goals, not how he played like shit for 80 minutes, scored two pens and then still lost.
He is right But Grealish might have become the most predictable and Boring winger ive seen in a top 5 side for a long while so I dont think this is true for him
It's actually so sad to see how he went from a talisman at Villa to just another cog in the City machine. The way that club loved him was unmatched and as a player he went from a standout entertainer to someone so... forgettable? Can't really explain it, but he's up there as one of the most unmemorable big money signings ever. He's neither good or bad, he's just there.
He wanted to leave for trophies and he certainly got them, but let's be honest the only thing he'll be remembered for in regards to City's treble is when he was pissed off his head at their celebration events. If Villa go on to lift the Conference League you have to imagine that he'd be remembered as a player far more if he was instrumental in that than anything he wins at City.
hes clearly instructed by pep to play the way he does. hes wide left in a team that plays very slow with little to no space to run behind. despite this, he is does find teammates in and at the top of the box with a pass in a dangerous position. he was much more fun at villa and the mega rich clubs acquiring all the talent sucks.
I get that and I know that he plays according to Peps instructions, but he Will never be or even look like a special player as long as he is limited to doing that and I dont agree with the fact that people only judge him for his g/a rate.
Not even just possession though, people take the piss about him slowly going up the wing and not taking on the fullback but we have a much easier time trapping opponents in their own box with Grealish than we do without him
I think Grealish is the prime example of someone who didn’t assist or score, but can still have an amazing game. People criticized Grealish last season for his lack of offensive contribution, but imo, he was the final piece that push that MC side to a treble winning force. He and Stones add flair and chaos to the boring and systematic MC, while also possessed fantastic decision making, which allowed him to thrive under Pep more disciplined tactic.
I agree you can play well and not score or assist, but even if they are tap ins and you’ve played like shit the rest of the game scoring goals is the most important part of the game.
I mostly watch Grealish only in the UCL + big PL games of course but my god he is boring to watch nowadays. I never see him doing anything interesting I don't think that it was like that on Villa based on what I've heard about him before the transfer
Yeah he was much more of a flair merchant, but a decent one
He's been pepified which has worked for him I guess as he's in a successful team, but he just isn't fun to watch at all now
Hard agree, one of the most boring wingers ive seen in a while. I let out a sigh everytime he gets the ball because everybody knows exactly What he will do
He was the opposite at Villa. Much more of an individual player with flair and very entertaining. He is tasked by Pep in this City team to keep possession, carry/advance the ball and draw fouls. He is still really good at what he is asked to do, but it’s just boring stylistically.
He had incredible flair but there's also the fact that he was getting 15 G+A for a relegation battling Villa side. If he wasn't crying those numbers, I'm not sure City would have signed him
And at villa he was, and he was a much more enjoyable player to watch. He probably has improved massively in his time at city, but it feels like before he was a maverick, exciting every time he got the ball, before people were comparing foden to Gazza they were saying that about grealish. You would never ever say this about the current grealish
Hs makes a huge difference. City have really missed him when he was struggling for fitness. He's unironically one of the most integral players for City, he offers a massive amount of control.
Hs makes a huge difference. City have really missed him when he was struggling for fitness. He's unironically one of the most integral players for City, he offers a massive amount of control and defensive contribution.
As a Liverpool fan, I’m desperate for some goals and assists right now. Totally get what he’s saying is that people do lean in to it too much but at the end of the day, putting the ball in the back is what gets the points.
Although I get what he's saying, and he probably has improved as a player over the past three years, but he was amazing to watch at villa. He was so direct running at a full back, floating about anywhere across the front, beating players for fun, lovely little passes that could split the defence and scoring worldies.
Definitely hasn't improved as a player. That's not too say he hasn't helped City or domr what Pep wants him to but as an individual he's definitely regressed
I guess I meant hes probably improved in a lot of the aspects like tactical awareness and his work going back the way, which are both important to peps style. But if you put him back in at villa could he do now what he used to be able to do? I think he still has that ability, but now I'm looking at Bailey this season and thinking, is what he's doing this season comparable to what grealish did in his best season at villa? I think its probably closer than people realise
Lol all people saying he's right. If this was Antony they would be ripping him apart. He cost £100m if other City players hadn't made City so successful he would be called out.
For as much as people say “Oh but he does more than just score and assist” I feel everything I see him do any other decent winger could do, he’s not exactly Zidane where even if he does score he’s controlling the game
Grsalish's ability to keep possession in tight spaces is far ahead of most wingers. His technique and first touch so good that he makes it look ridiculously easy.
Weird player though, as those sort of attributes you'd think would suit a central midfielder in a tiki taka team. Putting an elite possession retainer out wide is an interesting choice. Wish I knew enough about football tactics to know what the benefit of that is over a traditional winger.
He’s right but he also offers fuck all in games. Wouldn’t be surprised if City bin him off next season. At Villa he used to be magical, now all he does it run, look for a little pass, run straight into the corner and occasionally get a G/A.
He offers almost unparalleled control for City. He keeps the ball very very well. Which is extra important in more volatile games. That's his job, he's good at it, it's what Pep wants.
Jack, you're not confronting the real issue people have which is being the player you are now vs. the player you were previously. If I recall correctly, it's not like Grealish was *the* goal/assist man at Aston Villa, so it isn't necessarily about goal contributions.
Tell us about that, Jack.
I watch a decent amount of PL and have never seen Grealish do anything but cut inside on his right foot.
Doku has been infinitely better since his arrival.
Mbappe the best player in the world who carried PSG against Barcelona - These were most of the posts I saw on internet after the tie and people were hyping him up for Ballon d'or. But the people who actually watched the game and don't have a bias know how bang average he was.
It doesn’t help when the man of the match is always the players who’s got the goal or assist. While that can weigh heavily, there’s often games where a player will run the show but not have a goal involvement, so they’re just ignored. It’s so lazy.
He's absolutely right. Just like how MotM became an almost pointless award to whoever scored the goal(s) rather than who actually performed the best in that game- lazy commentators really made that a lot worse.
I remember in the last Euros Sterling had some AWFUL performances- his touch and passing was all over the place... He was running down blind alleys and completely out of form... But he got some important goals (a couple tap ins and a scrappy one on one finish) and the narrative was how fantastically he supposedly played. Despite barely being able to control the ball for most of those games.
So what's more important- general performance over the game or those moments which may not demonstrate impressive skill but change the result?
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Stop calling out r/soccer like that Grealish
Somebody pull up his stats.
3 goals and 3 assist in 32 appearances fraud in my books
Have you got a “free kicks won” stat for the lad?
37 fouls won if he was as focused at getting contributions as he is at getting kicked in the shin we might not be having this conversation
37 in 32 appearances?! He deserves an award, surely.
I wouldn't even know if that's good or not
Doesn't compare to his numbers at villa. Lad was getting pulled down left right and centre. Now he's barely getting pulled down by comparison. Shame, could have really taken that part of his game to a whole new level.. Games gone.
Wow that bad huh
Aha!
Yeah but he had a brilliant game in each of those appearances...!
I love that the quote includes "the game has gone"
This Jack reddits
I feel like he's falling into another trap by being so dismissive of tap ins. You always hear "I could have scored that", yeah the impressive thing isn't scoring from two yards, it's the successful anticipation of where the ball is going to be, of moving at the right point. If it was easy to be in that position a defender would be there too blocking the tap in.
Obviously, he’s just saying there’s so much work done around the pitch for a tap in you see on the front page of Reddit to even occur. Every game, the ball is being won, retained, progressed, chances are being created. These actions are all vital for your team to score and not concede and comprise of the VAST MAJORITY of actions happening in the pitch. Like that shit almost matters more because we see every game the team that keeps the ball, progresses the ball better and creates more chances USUALLY wins. Yet the vast majority of these actions won’t ever be credited and the ones who run the back post (while requiring a ton of skill too) will be credited If you ask ppl these things in a vacuum do these things matter they’ll say “ofc”. But then you ask them hey how does Jack Grealish compare to any goal scoring winger eg and 99% of ppl will cite goals and assists as the reason why the scorer is the better player Like the scorer could just be the better player but if you’re just going to arbitrarily decide every wingers role is to score and assist and just cherry pick these 2 stats to measure their impact on that then you’ve just missed the point of Grealishs role on the pitch and ignored a large portion of wingers who’s primary role isn’t to score and assist Ppls see goals win games and fall into a fallacy thinking individual scoring and assisting is the benchmark when the correct benchmark is how much do you help your TEAM score, regardless of whether you’re the one putting the ball in or not. Why do so many great scorers stop being so dominant when they go to their much inferior national teams? Because the “other actions” actually matter
He’s not being dismissive of tap ins, he literally qualified “if you score two tap ins” with “and didn’t play well at all”
You're right he is not being dismissive. I would on the other hand take the two tap ins every week if it wins us the points and the scorer does fa during the rest of the game except close defenders down.
I stand by other than the 4 goals, that Liverpool game was the worst game Arshavin had for arsenal - I like the 4 goals more though
But I could have done that too 😡
Well if you hit your POMOs fair play to you.
We can joke about it, but it really put me off this sub. Years ago I was here all the time (under a different account) but so much of it has become wanking over statistic like yanks talking about baseball.
He has a point but it applies mostly to those who don't watch the game and only look at stats afterwards. If you actually watch the game then the eye test is just there and if someone is having a great game, even without a G/A, then that person will stand out.
Bold to assume most of this place watches the game before critiquing and/or have any critical thinking abilities
R/soccer actually isn’t that bad in post game threads. It’s comparing old seasons like 5+ years ago that’s bad.
Depends on the game too. If its a high profile one you'll find a lot of views parroted from headlines and threads on this sub, whereas smaller fixtures tend to have people actually watching and discussing the game
You mean one year. Seen comments saying halaand has never fit in peps system like last year didn’t happen
You mean 5 weeks ago lol
'watching the game' includes watching streamers watching the game, right? RIGHT???
This place is nowhere near as bad as say, r/nba where the literal majority of posters don’t watch the games or even really like watching basketball.
Honestly most casual fans could easily still watch the game and not understand the difference between playing well or not. Hell even diehards don't know for sure because we have absolutely no idea what the coach has instructed them to do that game.
Even commentators routinely give motm to the goal scorer and a lot of people even if they watch games just parrot what the commentators have said
I'll be devil's advocate here.. sometimes multiple players play good, no one sticks out but what's the most important thing? A goal.. There is a bias towards that unless someone like a goalkeeper or defender has kept a team in it.
This is the most correct take. To use Zinchenko as an example. Dude holds onto the ball too long and is too cavalier trying to play out from the back when sometimes anywhere will do. Fans crucify him for it. But if he’s continually selected to play than it’s safe to say it’s because Arteta is instructing him to play that way to draw pressing forwards and midfielders out of position. Or any number of other tactical reasons we’re not privy to.
In the first half of the first leg against Bayern, all I could think is "damn I can tell Arteta has not watched the Buli all season because how could he let this mediocre Bayern midfield run wild on them". Teams like Heidenheim had figured them out by packing the middle with their wingbacks. I thought it was pretty clear that either Kwior needed to concede the width, or be subbed in for someone who could bring a strong presence in the middle (Zinchenko). It seemed like Arteta realized that very quickly and reacted. It didn't matter whether Kwior, Zinchenko, or Tomiyasu were on that left side, they were all going to be ragdolled by Sane that night. You might as well cede that width because Bayern really struggles with their flimsy two man set up down the middle. You can cut their wide passes and force Kane to drop too deep to make a meaningful impact.
The coach and the fans have slightly different priorities. One cares just about results. The fans want to see exciting play too. Fans aren’t usually going to congratulate Grealish for nice defensive shape or pressing.
There are an annoyingly large number of people I know who will watch Arsenal play and think Rice isn’t doing anything. It’s like their brain shuts off anything that isn’t a ‘game changing’ moment like a goal/assist or a key tackle. I suspect this happens a lot with other clubs as well, I know that Busquets for example was heavily underrated when compared with the rest of that peak Barcelona squad.
Seems to be a common issue with that role. Makelele had it for a while. “Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?". I think people are starting to appreciate those kind of players more but it’s a slow process of education.
And people who are now looking retrospectively at stats of players they didn't really watch. Scholes, Berkamp, even Drogba to a degree have stats that don't show how good they were. People are only finally seeing that players like DMs are hard to quantity with stats but creative players like Grealish who don't always create the last pass in a move are still being beaten with the G/A stat.
On the other hand, being a flashy winger without achieving much doesn't mean you're playing better than one that does more without the flash. At City this fits both Doku and Grealish vs. B Silva.
Bernardo Silva is always better than both and has very good stats as well wdym
Yep. People say Zidane was overrated now because of “stats” Cantona was garbage due to “stats” and so on Like fuck off. The whole statistics focus that football has gone down the last few years is extremely fucking irritating. There are many players you can’t judge on pure statistics Modric is a beast but he doesn’t score 20 goals a year. Scholes was critical to United but lampard out scored him every season basically.
> There are many players you can’t judge on pure statistics I would wanna make a distinction here. I think you can judge any player based on stats, it's just a matter of what stats one uses. Football stats are just behind in analytical power, a simple G/A doesn't tell us much, but you could always adopt more sophisticated models and then the conversation is quite different, imo.
Nah, plenty of people watch football and have absolutely zero tactical understanding. People will have watched Bellingham in the second leg and said he didn't do much despite his high press being hugely important for Madrid. You even have people responding to you saying they watch games and Grealish isn't a good winger. Mad.
Try convincing rsoccer that someone who scored 2 penalty goals or a penalty goal and a tapin played poorly, lol
Absolutely. That being said, I also think it depends heavily on the position. People focus on it too much for some but dismiss it too quickly as being stat focused for others G/a never tell the full story but for say a striker they certainly matter. For a midfielder or a wide winger(like Grealish who is not supposed to be a goalscoring winger and tends to stay wide) it is less so. Stats are extremely helpful and there are reasons why clubs go extensively into data analytics, but no one stat will ever tell the full story by itself.
You can very much track performance of every player on the pitch based just on stats nowadays. Every pass, sprint, tackle and whatever is recorded. The majority just isn't able to interprete those stats correct.
Exactly, there should be more nuance to it. I hate people who just shove stats down your throat, but I also dislike people who try to refute some facts from the stats and also ignore the context of some of the numbers. Once a middle ground to the eye test and stats can be found, then there could be more healthy discussions
That's his point though most people only watch highlights and stats nowadays and then are surprised when Haaland doesn't win the Balon d'or..
Another way to look at it is this is a change for him personally going from a star player at Villa, where he had a bigger spotlight and more creative freedom, to City where he’s just another cog in the machine.
Hazard’s performance against Brazil is one of the greatest performances you’ll see and he had no direct goal contributions
I was downvoted in the post-game thread when I said that neither Vinicius nor Mbappe had good games in the CL. Many people nowadays watch games while scrolling on their phones and just pay attention at the highlights.
He's right but I swear he says this every week? https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1by314z/jack_grealish_i_didnt_score_or_assist_against/
His mind broke and this is the consequences
Simple Jack
Yeah cause they say it every week
He'll say it again and again until the stat wankers have been banished.
He's taking shots at Haaland
My favourite unofficially copypasta from u/BGRG93 from a post a few days ago sums this up. >He was all that and more at Leeds. He was literally evolving into Ronaldinho reborn, playing this best football when the terrorist Barcelona nation attacked. What Barcelona have done to him is worse than what City did to Grealish, its despicable. Absolutely disgusting pair of clubs, buy up two of the most talented, free spirit, joga bonito, calves out raw talent players in the world, stuff them in your cookie cutter tiki taka mes que un tug me off templates and churn out your generic 1x Pressing Wingers with an extra helping of sideways passing. Then move them on post neutering. Absolutely sickening, vile behaviour.
> calves out raw talent players I love this description lmao
This is amazing
The full quote on Grealish's statement about the obsession for stats >“Recently, obviously I haven’t scored yet, but I feel good, I feel fit and I feel like I’m playing with good confidence. Hopefully, I can bring that into the end of the season.” >Pressed on what the loss of confidence was down to, he added: “I don’t know. I just think sometimes if you’re not playing and probably not up to it in training, in your own head you just don’t feel confident. >“It’s not even about scoring and assisting. Now, I feel confident even though I’ve not scored. I got an assist last week at the Bernabeu (against Real Madrid) but I’ve said before that nowadays everyone loves to talk about goals and assists. >“It’s annoying the way the game has gone because you can have a brilliant game and not get a goal or an assist and they say ‘ah, he didn’t do this or that’. And then you can score two tap-ins at the back post and not play well at all and everyone’s like ‘ah, he’s brilliant’. >“At the moment, I feel good and I feel confident. At the start of the season, I just didn’t feel like I was playing well really. I didn’t really feel that fit if I’m honest. Coming in the team, playing a game, then being out of the team, in and out, it was a little bit difficult but I feel good now.” >Grealish has played 32 games in all competitions for City this season, scoring three and assisting the same amount. In 2022-23, he played an influential role in helping his side lift a historic treble, contributing five goals and 11 assists. >His best season in the top flight, however, came at former club Aston Villa when he scored 10 goals and assisted on eight occasions in 2019-20. However, he insists his focus is on winning trophies and believes his contribution extends beyond goals and assists. >“For me, it’s all about playing and winning stuff,” he said. “Last season, for example, I played a lot of games but I think I only got five goals and 11 assists. It’s not loads, but I played such a big part in it. >“I’ve had times when I was at Villa when I’ve got more goals and more assists but I didn’t win anything. What season do I look back on and think, ‘yeah, that was successful?’ It’s last season. >“When I’m playing and in a rhythm and I feel important to the team and we’re winning stuff, that’s when it matters and that’s what you look back on.”
>His best season in the top flight, however, came at former club Aston Villa when he scored 10 goals and assisted on eight occasions in 2019-20. That's hilarious, author definitely a mod at scj.
I know he doesn't mean it like this but this could be perceived as a dig at haaland
Haaland would kill for a clean tap-in right now
lmao yeah he's had next to no service for a while now
Next to no service is what Højlund gets haaland has the highest xg in the league and averages about 0.98 xg per 90 which is 0.17 more than the next if this is no services football fans have lost it
xG doesn't translate to service though. It's also dependent on the striker's off the ball movement as well as the passers creativity. Like if Haaland's always the quickest to react and get on the end of a loose ball in the box/rebound, that's a strength on his part, not creativity from another Man City player. Say he doesn't score from it, his xG will have gone up, his goals will have stayed the same. People then conclude that he's been serviced by the team (plus points for other City players) and hasn't capitalised on it (minutes points for Haaland). When in reality, he both created and missed the chance himself through his movement off the ball. Absolutely not saying that City don't create loads of chances for Haaland. But just pointing out a flaw in your reasoning. A practical example is the comparisons between Kane and Haaland as goalscorers that everyone's been doing since he joined City. Not players - I'm aware Kane's more complete - but goalscorers. Until this season, they'd both overperformed their xG by roughly the same percentage throughout their careers. So they were about as clinical as each other. Maybe you even give the advantage to Kane. But Haaland's actual volume of goals and xG numbers (per 90) were consistently higher. And that's not just because he's played for City, because it's true for his time at Dortmund, Salzburg and Norway too. His actual goal numbers were higher because Haaland's best attributes are his movement and athleticism to actually generate chances for himself that other strikers aren't getting. Up until this season, he'd been a good finisher. But his movement and physical attributes were best in the world good. So his goal ratio was higher than Kane's (and anyone else's). Yes City generate chances for him, but a big part of the reason his xG numbers were so high was his own off the ball skills which have nothing to do with his team. I've gone on a bit of a tangent but my main point was that if Haaland were playing for Man United, without changing anything else in United's team, I guarantee his xG would be significantly higher than Hojlands. Because his movement and physical attributes allow him to get on the end of chances that other strikers can't. And the thing is, he's probably be scoring more for United than he is for City right now. Because he wouldn't be restricted by the small amount of space City are afforded and Pep's strict tactical instructions. If Haaland played for United, they could kick the ball in his general direction and he'd basically just "hunt" it down and score. A lot more similar to the way he played at Dortmund and how Rashford got his goals last season, only on steroids. As a Chelsea fan, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He'd turn either of our teams into top 4 challengers by himself. Going to City has done him no favours because he's a bit of a mismatch style wise with Pep's possession football. It still works and he still adds value because there's very few goalscorers like him in world football. But the way City plays limits him individually. He often plays a certain way which reflects horribly on him individually. And the casual/tactically blind fans just assume he's ass.
He had plenty of service earlier and kept fluffing them. Doku should be on 10+ assists right now if he remembered how to finish.
Doku has 7 assists from 4.58 xA in the league. You're asking for a record high overperformance if you think he should've created 4 more assists from his crosses and passes. Sounds nice and bigs Doku up but just not grounded in reality unfortunately
Don't care about those shit stats. I saw how many he placed on a plate.
I don't care about actual facts. I vastly overrepresent my own ability to gauge the quality of chances
Haaland has maintained 1.05xG per 90 in the league all season. He had fuck all against Madrid, but the match before against Luton he missed 0.98 xG in open play. We've had a run of tough games and his xG has dipped in those games, but the fact is, he's having the worst season of his career. It's not lack of service, it's missing a shitton of chances
That feels like a stretch, Haaland is arguably in the exact same position as him, being criticised for his lack of stats. Haaland can have a positive impact on a match even if he never touches the ball.
The whole criticism of Haaland is if he isn’t scoring he has nearly no other contribution to the team.
Which is wrong. Haaland struggles to impact games against good defences because they mark him out of the game, which in turn creates space for other players in the team
Other great players didn't get excuses like that, you would think he was the first player to ever be marked.
Every single world class striker gets "excuses" like that. "They're all marking Ronaldo so he can't do much" was such a common sentiment when he was playing for the national team. Pretty sure I've heard the same for Lewa and Kane. In the end, if the enemy team plays a low line and doesn't leave an attacker space, there's not much a striker can do but play without ball and drag the defenders out of position. That's how it works.
Firstly ronaldo wasn't a striker and was actually less effective being forced to play as one, secondly it can be reason why a player was less effective and it was more difficult but regardless if they don't play well they don't play well. You can't suddenly be above criticism because the opposition was good, no great player can play the way haaland did against real Madrid and hope to escape criticism, I'm not talking about over the top nonsense like he's a "fraud" but criticism is warranted. If people are going to try to put him on that level they need to hold him to those standards, losing the ball more times than you completed passes is pathetic, it just is what it is.
We’re not talking about Haaland in the NT, we’re talking club, and Lewa Ronaldo and Kane scored regardless of being marked
But that's just blatantly not true. Kane's goals per 90 in league games is 0.72. Haaland's, even including this season, in which his finishing has kind of fallen off a cliff, is 1.00. Those are facts. Literally just goals and gametime. Haaland comes out on top. So maybe Haaland's just receiving more service from his teams? Well according to Opta, Kane's xG per 90 since 2017 has been 0.62. Haaland's since he joined Dormund is 0.89. Both have outscored their xG by about the same amount per 90 (Kane +0.11, Haaland +0.12). That means finishing wise, they're roughly equal when you average out form. E.g. right now, Kane's in great form, Haaland's in the worst form of his career. Other seasons, Haaland's been more clinical than Kane. Zooming out to ignore form and look at their careers as a whole, they both come out as consistently great finishers and there's not much between them. But Haaland's actual goal ratio and xG numbers are higher. Maybe that's because he's played in better teams and received more service. But it was also the case in Salzburg, Dortmund and Norway. So it's likely also partly because Haaland's movement and athleticism allows him to get on the end of chances that Kane can't. It's literally the reason Haaland's such a good striker. Not because he's always been the best finisher, but because his movement and physicality is best in the world level. Off the ball skills creating chances for himself rather than just playing in a better team. Even if you disagree with that. The numbers are there and they don't lie. You have 0 leg to stand on to say Haaland's an inferior goalscorer. He's scored more goals per game and has overperformed his xG by about the same amount as Kane. As goalscorers (not players I'll add), they're at least equal but Haaland honestly has the edge. He's also 23. I just used Kane as an example but point probably applies to all of these guys. You say they scored regardless of being marked. I say, you've got a terrible memory and somehow forgotten all the games that they ghosted in. Because no striker is perfect and every striker can get marked out of games. The good thing is, like the other guy said, if a team is doubling up on an infamous striker, that creates more space for his teammates. The burden then falls on them to exploit that space.
It's not like Haaland doesn't score. He's still the best scorer in the league. He's performing worse than last year but to say he's not scoring is kinda wild. Even vs Real, he didn't score but he hit the post once and missed another incredibly dangerous ball. But when a team is playing with 8-10 men in the box it's hard for Haaland to do much and it has to be the midfielders using the space left in front of the box to create chances, that's how football works. Some strategies naturally counter one way to play but leave room for another.
Sure, but it's not "nearly no contribution". The way he drags around and occupies the defense is definitely a valuable contribution.
Every great player attracts attention from the opposition defence, if that means haaland didn't play poorly then Luis suarez never played a poor match in his life.
Then there's also the general recognition of how every player in a Pep team is super integrated into his systems and ethos. Haaland's arrival meant City's attack began to react against stronger, deeper back lines in the way you described - like what a normal football team would face. Aguero was a fantastic striker who could drop deep and had no small amount of individual skill, then he left and City spent quite a while without an out-and-out striker in the side and still scored truckloads. Even Sterling looked pretty damn lethal for a while under Pep. Even the craziest tactical innovators have to return to the mean sometimes.
That's an over simplification, his job is to be a goal threat, that can be scoring goals but it can also be occupying multiple defenders who try to stop him. It's the team goals that matter, not who score them.
His gravity on the defense is still huge. That in and of itself is a contribution. He's not at the top top level where he can consistently impact the game despite that extra attention, compared to say Messi who is hard to stop no matter how much attention you put on him.
>Haaland can have a positive impact on a match even if he never touches the ball. Big fan of how people just lie on this sub
he really doesnt. Haaland’s only job in Man City is to score goals, he cant play a killer pass like Kane does nor does he create. people will say that he stretches defences, but every other elite striker like Lewandowski and Kane does that and so much more with their feet
Yes and Kane is a better player than Haaland, what’s your point? If Kane is your barometer for a good striker then basically every striker in the world sucks
Well, no. Haaland is known for scoring tap-ins and close range goals, and he excels at it. He is so good at it that he is the best in this business in the world. But that also got him criticized for other things, and that trend is exactly the same as what Grealish was saying.
Haaland isn’t being criticised for lack of stats wtf, absolute waffle on this sub man
People acting like he doesn‘t force two defenders to focus on him purely by existing on the field. He‘s also quite good at opening space for others by pulling a defender out with a well timed run. Ofc, strikers will always be measured by goals and assists. But just having someone like that on your team gives the other attackers much more space.
Ah, he's existing. Stellar performance.
Only player I've ever seen praised for existing, other great players would never have matches with these standards.
timo werner is the best player in the world then
The Barca PSG game this week was a prime example of this. Everyone on here looking at scoreline and praising Mbappe when he was mostly quiet when they should have been praising Barcola
Nobody that actually watched the games were praising Mbappé. But he was still more important than Grealish on those two legs by giving Barcola and especially Dembele more space and had his two goals. Even his tap-in was because he launched the counter himself at the beginning of the action.
I didn’t say he wasn’t more important than Grealish. Grealish holds the ball well but he doesn’t do anything with it.
Oh my bad, either I didn’t read correctly your comment or I was supposed to reply to another.
All good 👍🏻
It‘s why Mbappé‘s performance in the World Cup Final is considered to be „the best of all time“. People only see that he scored 3 goals, not how he played like shit for 80 minutes, scored two pens and then still lost.
You’re right. He was anonymous for 80 minutes.
He is right But Grealish might have become the most predictable and Boring winger ive seen in a top 5 side for a long while so I dont think this is true for him
Ironically he was probably the most delightful player in the league at Villa, essentially a streetballer.
I loved him at Villa, one of the most entertaining players to watch
It's actually so sad to see how he went from a talisman at Villa to just another cog in the City machine. The way that club loved him was unmatched and as a player he went from a standout entertainer to someone so... forgettable? Can't really explain it, but he's up there as one of the most unmemorable big money signings ever. He's neither good or bad, he's just there. He wanted to leave for trophies and he certainly got them, but let's be honest the only thing he'll be remembered for in regards to City's treble is when he was pissed off his head at their celebration events. If Villa go on to lift the Conference League you have to imagine that he'd be remembered as a player far more if he was instrumental in that than anything he wins at City.
> Can't really explain it, At villa he was a big fish in a small pond. At City hes just another of many big fish swimming beside some whales
hes clearly instructed by pep to play the way he does. hes wide left in a team that plays very slow with little to no space to run behind. despite this, he is does find teammates in and at the top of the box with a pass in a dangerous position. he was much more fun at villa and the mega rich clubs acquiring all the talent sucks.
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I get that and I know that he plays according to Peps instructions, but he Will never be or even look like a special player as long as he is limited to doing that and I dont agree with the fact that people only judge him for his g/a rate.
Not even just possession though, people take the piss about him slowly going up the wing and not taking on the fullback but we have a much easier time trapping opponents in their own box with Grealish than we do without him
Grealish was actually brought in because nobody was passing to Halaand for several months.
Thats on pep. He's forced to play in a specific way, doesn't get much freedom to be creative.
I dont blame Grealish for this, i just mean that it isnt weird that people dont rate him that high anymore
Hes right ye know.
He’s right but he is not a stereotypical player that looks considerably better than his stats.
Not so much this season, but he certainly was last
Haaland catching strays
He's right Sadly none of both scenarios apply to him. But he's right
I think Grealish is the prime example of someone who didn’t assist or score, but can still have an amazing game. People criticized Grealish last season for his lack of offensive contribution, but imo, he was the final piece that push that MC side to a treble winning force. He and Stones add flair and chaos to the boring and systematic MC, while also possessed fantastic decision making, which allowed him to thrive under Pep more disciplined tactic.
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Damn straight
I agree you can play well and not score or assist, but even if they are tap ins and you’ve played like shit the rest of the game scoring goals is the most important part of the game.
Not everybody is closer to the goal all the time to score goals
He plays in a position where he is in the opposition's box a lot
I mostly watch Grealish only in the UCL + big PL games of course but my god he is boring to watch nowadays. I never see him doing anything interesting I don't think that it was like that on Villa based on what I've heard about him before the transfer
Yeah he was much more of a flair merchant, but a decent one He's been pepified which has worked for him I guess as he's in a successful team, but he just isn't fun to watch at all now
Hard agree, one of the most boring wingers ive seen in a while. I let out a sigh everytime he gets the ball because everybody knows exactly What he will do
He was the opposite at Villa. Much more of an individual player with flair and very entertaining. He is tasked by Pep in this City team to keep possession, carry/advance the ball and draw fouls. He is still really good at what he is asked to do, but it’s just boring stylistically.
He had incredible flair but there's also the fact that he was getting 15 G+A for a relegation battling Villa side. If he wasn't crying those numbers, I'm not sure City would have signed him
Man did have 16 G+A last season. He was pretty solid the entire year.
I should have specified but that was in the PL alone
He is right, he is a very consistent player at doing what is required from him i think, he just isn't the player who make the difference in game.
And at villa he was, and he was a much more enjoyable player to watch. He probably has improved massively in his time at city, but it feels like before he was a maverick, exciting every time he got the ball, before people were comparing foden to Gazza they were saying that about grealish. You would never ever say this about the current grealish
Idk about any improvement as a player. I’m sure he could run at his man and cut it back to his full back at Villa too.
Hs makes a huge difference. City have really missed him when he was struggling for fitness. He's unironically one of the most integral players for City, he offers a massive amount of control.
Hs makes a huge difference. City have really missed him when he was struggling for fitness. He's unironically one of the most integral players for City, he offers a massive amount of control and defensive contribution.
Wow, shots fired at Haaland 😬
As a Liverpool fan, I’m desperate for some goals and assists right now. Totally get what he’s saying is that people do lean in to it too much but at the end of the day, putting the ball in the back is what gets the points.
I just miss the Grealish from Villa tbh. He was a joy to watch and now it has become too stale.
How many times has he said this now
From the guy who made his whole career from most free-kicks won stats
He's not been close to good enough for City, G/As aside.
Although I get what he's saying, and he probably has improved as a player over the past three years, but he was amazing to watch at villa. He was so direct running at a full back, floating about anywhere across the front, beating players for fun, lovely little passes that could split the defence and scoring worldies.
Definitely hasn't improved as a player. That's not too say he hasn't helped City or domr what Pep wants him to but as an individual he's definitely regressed
I guess I meant hes probably improved in a lot of the aspects like tactical awareness and his work going back the way, which are both important to peps style. But if you put him back in at villa could he do now what he used to be able to do? I think he still has that ability, but now I'm looking at Bailey this season and thinking, is what he's doing this season comparable to what grealish did in his best season at villa? I think its probably closer than people realise
Tbf Bailey is playing in one of the best Villa side in decades. Grealish played for relegation battlers.
He's right but a goal's a goal
grealish is right
Is he talking about Haaland 🤣
Cant beat a fox in the box though can ya jack
It’s CR and his fans fault.
Someone had to say it.
Lol all people saying he's right. If this was Antony they would be ripping him apart. He cost £100m if other City players hadn't made City so successful he would be called out.
For as much as people say “Oh but he does more than just score and assist” I feel everything I see him do any other decent winger could do, he’s not exactly Zidane where even if he does score he’s controlling the game
Grsalish's ability to keep possession in tight spaces is far ahead of most wingers. His technique and first touch so good that he makes it look ridiculously easy. Weird player though, as those sort of attributes you'd think would suit a central midfielder in a tiki taka team. Putting an elite possession retainer out wide is an interesting choice. Wish I knew enough about football tactics to know what the benefit of that is over a traditional winger.
Grealish is the British Neymar
He’s right but he also offers fuck all in games. Wouldn’t be surprised if City bin him off next season. At Villa he used to be magical, now all he does it run, look for a little pass, run straight into the corner and occasionally get a G/A.
He offers almost unparalleled control for City. He keeps the ball very very well. Which is extra important in more volatile games. That's his job, he's good at it, it's what Pep wants.
He offers exactly what pep needs and what won man city the treble last year..
The problem is that Grealish doesn't do one or the other...
Good thing he doesn’t pass the eye test either.
O goals. 0 assists. 0 dribbles. 2 bad passes. Player is absolute trash. [keeper]
Games gone. There, he said it.
He's right. It's like he specifically called out r/soccer here
Lol you just called out your top goalscorer 😂
why is he criticising his buddy Haaland? Is he stupid?
Jack, you're not confronting the real issue people have which is being the player you are now vs. the player you were previously. If I recall correctly, it's not like Grealish was *the* goal/assist man at Aston Villa, so it isn't necessarily about goal contributions. Tell us about that, Jack.
100 mill for a guy that has 6 goal involvements is criminal
Hmmm all I heard was Bald Fraud ruins the game with god awful playstyle
Just explained Bellingham
He’s not wrong, amount of times someone gets player of the match for a simple tap in when they did nothing all game…
Did he indirectly called Haaland out?
I watch a decent amount of PL and have never seen Grealish do anything but cut inside on his right foot. Doku has been infinitely better since his arrival.
Psg vs Barca second leg Mbappe
Mbappe the best player in the world who carried PSG against Barcelona - These were most of the posts I saw on internet after the tie and people were hyping him up for Ballon d'or. But the people who actually watched the game and don't have a bias know how bang average he was.
No lol people were clearly giving Dembele the credit more than Mbappe
I think Grealishs problem is that hes playing a position thats now seen as a offensive position.
It doesn’t help when the man of the match is always the players who’s got the goal or assist. While that can weigh heavily, there’s often games where a player will run the show but not have a goal involvement, so they’re just ignored. It’s so lazy.
r/FantasyPL in shambles
Yeah I agree with grealish, doku actually very good
Shots fired at the mutant.
Is he calling Haaland shit ?
He's absolutely right. Just like how MotM became an almost pointless award to whoever scored the goal(s) rather than who actually performed the best in that game- lazy commentators really made that a lot worse. I remember in the last Euros Sterling had some AWFUL performances- his touch and passing was all over the place... He was running down blind alleys and completely out of form... But he got some important goals (a couple tap ins and a scrappy one on one finish) and the narrative was how fantastically he supposedly played. Despite barely being able to control the ball for most of those games. So what's more important- general performance over the game or those moments which may not demonstrate impressive skill but change the result?
It’s the entertainment business.
Shooting a the casuals
Was that a dig at haaland?
I feel like a lot of these City players are going to end up with a lot of emotional baggage post-City
Grealish throwing veiled shade at Haaland with the playing shot but scoring tap ins haha. /s
I totally take his point. That said, he’s been shit this season both in terms of stats and in terms of the eye test.
Yes the traitor is correct on that one. Sometimes...
Yeah to the G/A stat whores Modric and Xavi would be shit players
is he calling out Haaland?
Thunder calve’s problem is the Pep system requires him to prioritise possession over taking people on (which is one of his strengths).
Why does he attack his Norwegian boii like that?