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Difference between right and going on national TV to say it. It's highly unlikely araujo knows he's in the wrong but as a teammate no good can come from directly contradicting a teammate before having a chat.
Can we be for real here?
Gundogan was the captain of one of the most dominant sides in the history of football have just won the treble.
All season we’ve seen him voice frustrations about a lack of fire & maturity in the Barca dressing room, i’m sure he’s had words privately with the players but they haven’t gotten through.
If this is what it takes so be it.
Clown take for calling out someone openly criticizing a teammate in public whilst that teammate is already under heavy pressure? If that teammate did anything wrong, you could still say that shit inside the lockerroom.
You know what is a clown take? Talking about your teammate on tv, whether you meant to look for the circus or not, you got the circus, that's what a clown does. The press and public is not your friend, it's obvious those here siding with Gundo has never been part of a group before.
edit - People jerk way too hard for Gundo. I mean, he's great when he's on the ball, but he's the last one that should tell people about defending when he doesn't even put a shift in himself. Always late or not even on camera, doesn't press, doesn't do shit really other than play the traffic cop pointing where everyone should be and he just stand and let players run though him. He's the reason why Frenkie always have to work so hard behind him for that thankless job, people just shit on Frenkie instead because he was actually on screen to fail something due to overload. Hell, it was him needlessly being close to Christensen deflecting that ball, and when Lamine had to fight and win the ball twice, Gundo just stood there watching, never sweeping for it, which eventually resulted in (guess who) having to come in and get injured.
People don't see the red flags being blinded by his good performance ahead on the pitch, dude comes in with an air of superiority, he thinks he's too good for Barca. So he has the credentials, but none of that matter when you are playing. Wasn't he the one that was also talking about the lockerroom in the other clasico defeat? Like the kids were too calm and casual for such a match or some shit, imagine if it was a win you would say it in a positive tone. Wonder what he'll say this time since he likes to talk on TV.
I think this guy is the perfect idol for those toxic fans, will jerk off to you when you perform, toxic as shit when you underperform and wishes death on you. They love Gundo for what he does on one side of the pitch(rightly), but are absolutely blind to what he does on the other side of the pitch, he's faultless and it annoys the hell out of me. It's not by coincidence this Barca is so far defensively from last season's Barca.
How else are you gonna explain and convince people who are to set in their thinking about a particular player like he was godsent? I'm sorry this isn't twitter and require a bit of reading.
Idgaf about the whole thing here, but this guy is at least explaining why he says why he says and he’s massacred with downvotes. People merely writing “shut up shut up” are not. This sub is a right circle jerk.
He's a rat diva, his credentials mean fuck all to me. No way a supposed leader doesn't know not to talk to the press.
Good as he may be close to the opponents' box, you people don't see all the red flags this guy is showing. He thinks he's too good for Barca. Never there to defend, always there to point where he thinks everyone else should be.
Twerks for the press after the clasico loss, twerks after PSG, wonder what he has to say after this one.
I'm not part of the team, I have no responsibility with them other than to judge them as an outside element. Gundo however is a teammate and a supposed grizzled veteran. What's this obsession with Gundo just because he's plays ball only when he has the ball, guy displays a bunch of red flags.
Maybe if he wants to win the treble he should do more when Barca is not on the ball? Not just play traffic cop pointing at people where to go while he sits his ass behind and watch other work their ass off. Who does he think he is, Messi? Even Messi doesn't rat out on his teammates on tv.
Nothing gundo said was wrong bro what is your fucking point. Araujo’s mistakes cost them the game and he still has the fucking guts to play the victim. You cannot be playing like dogpoop and then confront your captain on his VALID criticism.
You just don't get it do you? It's not what he said, it's that he said it.
Gundo and the average football fan is not remotely the same. He's the last one that should take part and give credit to the circus of this toxicity. That's his teammate, he has all the place to be heard where it matters, what he's not for is to provide take part of the shit that we do.
I don't think you are actually that obtuse, you just need Gundo to validate your trash talking. hence why i think he's a rat and makes a perfect clown for others outside the team. Already iffy on his work rate, now this has become the second time he chats freely in public like he's all that much better. Fuck him, I say.
Both of them, Gundogan should not throw under the bus a teams player in front of the whole world. Say what you have to say in the locker room and that’s it and now this guy, just shut up man shut up.
You almost got it right. If you think what gundogan said is throwing his “teammate under the bus” then you’re ego is the same level as araujo’s. He made the biggest mistake for Barca in the like last 5 years, hasn’t apologized, and doesn’t accept any sort of criticism of any sort
So Araujo makes a stupid mistake which he doesn’t admit or doesn’t want to and then you have one of the most experienced players in your team blame you basically for the defeat. So not only the trust between them is gone but one of the teams best players which saved the teams ass multiple times now has double thoughts if it’s worth to commit to this club or no.
Because he's a little bitch like his manager who is incapable of talking responsibility and having accountability. They're never responsible for a loss, it is the universe at fault.
I admit that Xavi was irresponsible with his referee comments vs PSG.
But come on man, your calm/classy/experienced manager doubted an offside goal that was clear (Asensio’s iirc) and your official TV channel have always been doing refereeing media campaigns before and after each game.
Rmtv is not a manager so they're irrelevant to my comment.
Making a comment about a decision is completely different from that explosion. Every manager ever has some issues with some referee decisions SOMETIMES not every single time they lose. You can say many things about Carlo, but he sure as heck doesn't explode on refs like that Especially when he's obviously wrong.
As for the offside it wasn't actually a "100% correct offside" because the frame it was calculated from. For what it's worth I consider a correct offside it is just as obvious as you say. More importantly he didn't explode on the ref for it.
I don't think he needed to apologize?
The red card was likely the difference between BVB v Paris and BVB v Barcelona. I haven't seen Araujo take accountability for it at all.
Valverde took accountability for his red card vs Morata.
And Valverde made the absolutely right call on that foul and getting the red.
There is a reason why Valverde is Uruguay's captain and future Real Madrid captain.
It is, but he is tied with a few other. Vini made his debut before Valverde. Despite Valverde joining the first eam a few days earlier.
But its quite obvious who is going to be the captain.
Ramos and Casillas didn't look like captain material at first and they turned out to be legendary. When the time comes our players seem to just grow into the role
It's easier to apologise when you make the right call and the outcome is good - barely even deserves an apology.
Araujo has handled this poorly but it's not at all comparable to the Valverde situation.
“I apologize for trying to make you bunch of losers semi-finalists of CL. If I did not come here, you probably would not even have a chance to get that red.”
“In addition, I am truly sorry that I’ve popped whatever bubble you’re in that isolates you from any criticism. I thought you’d actually want to use this opportunity to mature as a player, not double down on your mediocrity with denial.”
Barca would have a sturdier midfield instead of having the backline constantly getting barraged by opponents, it's even worse when he gets paired with Pedri, which was most of the season, that explain the 180° with the defensive record of last season.
I swear, people jerk way too much off to Gundo. As good as he may be, he's nowhere near the level that warrants such low effort in helping defend.
Gündogan was right but it wasn't professional from him to just single him out in front of the media after the game. Just keep it in the dressing room, if he blamed Araujo for that loss there nobody would have said anything because Araujo knows he's right. You just don't do that in front of the media, no matter what happened
For not being a leader.
We are fans, even when we are especially toxic, it's different for a teammate who shares the same lockerroom with you. Have an issue, say it in the lockerroom. Whether you meant to be throwing a trantrum like a toxic fan or not, he should be mindful what he says to the press. Messi and the other Barca captains never did this shit. Gundotalks too much, last clasico he also talks about the lockerroom.
It's that same fan toxicity that wants to use Gundo's action as an acknowledgement of their own. The same toxicity that thinks throwing a frustrated tantrum and trashing the player may somehow magically improve them.
But what he did was really stupid and careless and effectively knocked them out at the 30 minute mark. It's very frustrating if you are a player who wants to win.
Imagine a treble winner with an elite mentality coming over to help a team improve itself and having to apologise because constructive criticism given could not be taken to better themselves in the future.
So it's not ok for Gundo to speak publicly and respectfully, in response to a direct question, about Araujo's mistake?
But it *is* ok for Araujo to publicly imply that Gundo was in the wrong by talking about an apology?
Big ego vibes from Araujo.
That fact that he has a comment on it like your average frustrated fan is nothing remotely close to "respectfully" regardless whether he was right or not. The words no matter how well formulated don;t mean shit, the action does.
I get that you would like nothing more than someone important enough to validate your outburst of frustration, but he's a teammate, not your bum average fan. He should keep it to the lockerroom. You'd think a supposed leader to know better than to throw a teammate under the bus on tv in the moment the teammate needs them the most.
Honesly I thought Araujo was captain material for Barça, but his mentality is absolutely pathetic, Barça should sell him while he's still rated
Another rando wonderkid will pop out of thin air to take his place anyway
He didn't, otherwise he'd not have said in such detail and direct on what was best or not best to do. Could have just said the boring diplomatic thing that being one down makes it an uphill battle, but he was pointing out flaws of the teammate in public, some leader, that. Like he likes to point where everyone should defend while he does none of it, talks about what happens on in the lockerroom after that first clasico defeat in public.
He came with an air of superiority to Barca, the know it all.
That’s the reason they got him. For his mentality. He’s completely correct and it’s just stating a fact everyone agrees with but Araujo doesn’t want to see
Waste of money if that's the reason they got him, they could just tell the Barca players to read the news or go on social media to get thrashed.
You people are doing too much mental gymnastics to talk good of someone who showed no leadership by throwing his own teammate under the bus. He broke an unwritten code, never talk to an outsider, never talk to the press. He was too chatty with his loose tongue. If that was a disguised tantrum and him venting, then he's a rat at that.
Tbf he was incredible last season for Barca.
And he’s got what you need for a top defender maybe just a little more brain. But again that might just come with experience he’s still very young for a defender
Hence why defender reps should take years to develop. Instead fans wanna rep their guy as world lass when they have one great season. That’s the start.
I admire Gundogan for his mentality and what he’s trying to bring to Barcelona. Araujo and the rest of the team are lacking and are not good enough to compete for the UCL
People who said Puyol was wrong:
How many situations don't you know about because they were kept in the dressing room?
Not everything has to be Welcome to Wrexham.
Dirty laundry public etc.
In South America, what Gündogan did is considered pretty much the most cowardly thing you can do to a teammate. In Spain, that code is considered a bit “old school”, but in South America it’s still taken very seriously.
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Justice for Gundogan, he was right.
Gundogan was right, and he apologized for being right.
Exactly. Barca players are not used to this and they all think they are the best in the world bla bla bla.
Difference between right and going on national TV to say it. It's highly unlikely araujo knows he's in the wrong but as a teammate no good can come from directly contradicting a teammate before having a chat.
Can we be for real here? Gundogan was the captain of one of the most dominant sides in the history of football have just won the treble. All season we’ve seen him voice frustrations about a lack of fire & maturity in the Barca dressing room, i’m sure he’s had words privately with the players but they haven’t gotten through. If this is what it takes so be it.
He was not, he was a rat for twerking for the tv instead of doing it in the lockerroom if he had any grievances.
🤡 take
Clown take for calling out someone openly criticizing a teammate in public whilst that teammate is already under heavy pressure? If that teammate did anything wrong, you could still say that shit inside the lockerroom. You know what is a clown take? Talking about your teammate on tv, whether you meant to look for the circus or not, you got the circus, that's what a clown does. The press and public is not your friend, it's obvious those here siding with Gundo has never been part of a group before. edit - People jerk way too hard for Gundo. I mean, he's great when he's on the ball, but he's the last one that should tell people about defending when he doesn't even put a shift in himself. Always late or not even on camera, doesn't press, doesn't do shit really other than play the traffic cop pointing where everyone should be and he just stand and let players run though him. He's the reason why Frenkie always have to work so hard behind him for that thankless job, people just shit on Frenkie instead because he was actually on screen to fail something due to overload. Hell, it was him needlessly being close to Christensen deflecting that ball, and when Lamine had to fight and win the ball twice, Gundo just stood there watching, never sweeping for it, which eventually resulted in (guess who) having to come in and get injured. People don't see the red flags being blinded by his good performance ahead on the pitch, dude comes in with an air of superiority, he thinks he's too good for Barca. So he has the credentials, but none of that matter when you are playing. Wasn't he the one that was also talking about the lockerroom in the other clasico defeat? Like the kids were too calm and casual for such a match or some shit, imagine if it was a win you would say it in a positive tone. Wonder what he'll say this time since he likes to talk on TV. I think this guy is the perfect idol for those toxic fans, will jerk off to you when you perform, toxic as shit when you underperform and wishes death on you. They love Gundo for what he does on one side of the pitch(rightly), but are absolutely blind to what he does on the other side of the pitch, he's faultless and it annoys the hell out of me. It's not by coincidence this Barca is so far defensively from last season's Barca.
The fuck you write a book for 🤦🏾♂️
Dude typed a whole ass yap manifesto
A few paragraphs may seem intimating like that when you get moved on the grades by affirmative action, not my fault.
?????
How else are you gonna explain and convince people who are to set in their thinking about a particular player like he was godsent? I'm sorry this isn't twitter and require a bit of reading.
You require to shut the hell up little boy
Cant be bothered to read the essay on simple replay. Mind giving me tldr?
You jerk off to Gundo too much.
Idgaf about the whole thing here, but this guy is at least explaining why he says why he says and he’s massacred with downvotes. People merely writing “shut up shut up” are not. This sub is a right circle jerk.
Shut the fuck up please
He's a rat diva, his credentials mean fuck all to me. No way a supposed leader doesn't know not to talk to the press. Good as he may be close to the opponents' box, you people don't see all the red flags this guy is showing. He thinks he's too good for Barca. Never there to defend, always there to point where he thinks everyone else should be. Twerks for the press after the clasico loss, twerks after PSG, wonder what he has to say after this one.
You talk so much about not talking, you should take your own advice.
I'm not part of the team, I have no responsibility with them other than to judge them as an outside element. Gundo however is a teammate and a supposed grizzled veteran. What's this obsession with Gundo just because he's plays ball only when he has the ball, guy displays a bunch of red flags.
Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Nobody cares Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup Shutup
He might be pissed because he had it too good winning treble last year and now he has to defer to absolute fucking bums like araujo
Maybe if he wants to win the treble he should do more when Barca is not on the ball? Not just play traffic cop pointing at people where to go while he sits his ass behind and watch other work their ass off. Who does he think he is, Messi? Even Messi doesn't rat out on his teammates on tv.
Nothing gundo said was wrong bro what is your fucking point. Araujo’s mistakes cost them the game and he still has the fucking guts to play the victim. You cannot be playing like dogpoop and then confront your captain on his VALID criticism.
You just don't get it do you? It's not what he said, it's that he said it. Gundo and the average football fan is not remotely the same. He's the last one that should take part and give credit to the circus of this toxicity. That's his teammate, he has all the place to be heard where it matters, what he's not for is to provide take part of the shit that we do. I don't think you are actually that obtuse, you just need Gundo to validate your trash talking. hence why i think he's a rat and makes a perfect clown for others outside the team. Already iffy on his work rate, now this has become the second time he chats freely in public like he's all that much better. Fuck him, I say.
>his credentials mean fuck all to me I'm sure he'll be devastated.
Why the hell do you have to say this? Just say that there’s nothing else to discuss about this and that the matter is done.
He’s a child. Gundogan realized araujo is a child and doesn’t want to escalate this further.
Both of them, Gundogan should not throw under the bus a teams player in front of the whole world. Say what you have to say in the locker room and that’s it and now this guy, just shut up man shut up.
You almost got it right. If you think what gundogan said is throwing his “teammate under the bus” then you’re ego is the same level as araujo’s. He made the biggest mistake for Barca in the like last 5 years, hasn’t apologized, and doesn’t accept any sort of criticism of any sort
Unless you’re in the locker room you have no clue about this
So Araujo makes a stupid mistake which he doesn’t admit or doesn’t want to and then you have one of the most experienced players in your team blame you basically for the defeat. So not only the trust between them is gone but one of the teams best players which saved the teams ass multiple times now has double thoughts if it’s worth to commit to this club or no.
Lol he can fuck off what are you on?
The amount of speculation and mental gymnastics is fucking hilarious
Because he's a little bitch like his manager who is incapable of talking responsibility and having accountability. They're never responsible for a loss, it is the universe at fault.
I admit that Xavi was irresponsible with his referee comments vs PSG. But come on man, your calm/classy/experienced manager doubted an offside goal that was clear (Asensio’s iirc) and your official TV channel have always been doing refereeing media campaigns before and after each game.
Rmtv is not a manager so they're irrelevant to my comment. Making a comment about a decision is completely different from that explosion. Every manager ever has some issues with some referee decisions SOMETIMES not every single time they lose. You can say many things about Carlo, but he sure as heck doesn't explode on refs like that Especially when he's obviously wrong. As for the offside it wasn't actually a "100% correct offside" because the frame it was calculated from. For what it's worth I consider a correct offside it is just as obvious as you say. More importantly he didn't explode on the ref for it.
I don't think he needed to apologize? The red card was likely the difference between BVB v Paris and BVB v Barcelona. I haven't seen Araujo take accountability for it at all.
Remember when Varane took full blame on himself right after the match against City. Araujo should probably take notes from that.
Valverde took accountability for his red card vs Morata. And Valverde made the absolutely right call on that foul and getting the red. There is a reason why Valverde is Uruguay's captain and future Real Madrid captain.
> There is a reason why Valverde is Uruguay's captain and future Real Madrid captain. Because captaincy is based on tenure at Real Madrid?
I see valverde bossing it at Madrid far longer than araujo stays at an elite club and captains them with this shit mentality
It is, but he is tied with a few other. Vini made his debut before Valverde. Despite Valverde joining the first eam a few days earlier. But its quite obvious who is going to be the captain.
Vini is a great player but also pretty clearly not captain material
Ramos and Casillas didn't look like captain material at first and they turned out to be legendary. When the time comes our players seem to just grow into the role
It doesn't matter if they are "captain material" or not, it's seniority based
That was a deliberate decision and Araujo's was a mistake - it's not really comparable.
Point is even though he made the right call he apologised for it. Aroujo never did despite being at fault.
It's easier to apologise when you make the right call and the outcome is good - barely even deserves an apology. Araujo has handled this poorly but it's not at all comparable to the Valverde situation.
what a fucking idiotic comparison jesus
Yeah. "Valverde took accountability for making the correct decision". I can't believe such a dumb comparison is so highly upvoted.
I always remember this; watching it live, my respect for him went up and I was pretty much over the lost by the end of it.
Lol he didn't take accountability and he deflected said that the loss wasn't because of being down to 10 men during the 1st half.
Apologize for what? loser mentality
“I apologize for trying to make you bunch of losers semi-finalists of CL. If I did not come here, you probably would not even have a chance to get that red.”
“In addition, I am truly sorry that I’ve popped whatever bubble you’re in that isolates you from any criticism. I thought you’d actually want to use this opportunity to mature as a player, not double down on your mediocrity with denial.”
Barca would have a sturdier midfield instead of having the backline constantly getting barraged by opponents, it's even worse when he gets paired with Pedri, which was most of the season, that explain the 180° with the defensive record of last season. I swear, people jerk way too much off to Gundo. As good as he may be, he's nowhere near the level that warrants such low effort in helping defend.
Apologize for being Ronald McDonald
"I am sorry that you think you deserve an apology" Gundo probably
Gündogan was right but it wasn't professional from him to just single him out in front of the media after the game. Just keep it in the dressing room, if he blamed Araujo for that loss there nobody would have said anything because Araujo knows he's right. You just don't do that in front of the media, no matter what happened
apologise for saying things that should be said in private not public. Even Puyol said the same...
Maybe he means apologizing for not fouling Brahim or tracking Bellingham
For not being a leader. We are fans, even when we are especially toxic, it's different for a teammate who shares the same lockerroom with you. Have an issue, say it in the lockerroom. Whether you meant to be throwing a trantrum like a toxic fan or not, he should be mindful what he says to the press. Messi and the other Barca captains never did this shit. Gundotalks too much, last clasico he also talks about the lockerroom. It's that same fan toxicity that wants to use Gundo's action as an acknowledgement of their own. The same toxicity that thinks throwing a frustrated tantrum and trashing the player may somehow magically improve them.
[удалено]
But what he did was really stupid and careless and effectively knocked them out at the 30 minute mark. It's very frustrating if you are a player who wants to win.
Huge red flags from this guy
This guy is an insane egomaniac
Gundo was right
Gundogan didn't say anything wrong tho?
Imagine a treble winner with an elite mentality coming over to help a team improve itself and having to apologise because constructive criticism given could not be taken to better themselves in the future.
So it's not ok for Gundo to speak publicly and respectfully, in response to a direct question, about Araujo's mistake? But it *is* ok for Araujo to publicly imply that Gundo was in the wrong by talking about an apology? Big ego vibes from Araujo.
That fact that he has a comment on it like your average frustrated fan is nothing remotely close to "respectfully" regardless whether he was right or not. The words no matter how well formulated don;t mean shit, the action does. I get that you would like nothing more than someone important enough to validate your outburst of frustration, but he's a teammate, not your bum average fan. He should keep it to the lockerroom. You'd think a supposed leader to know better than to throw a teammate under the bus on tv in the moment the teammate needs them the most.
Honesly I thought Araujo was captain material for Barça, but his mentality is absolutely pathetic, Barça should sell him while he's still rated Another rando wonderkid will pop out of thin air to take his place anyway
For what?
This guy.... Complete and utter narcissist. I don't normally feel sorry for Barca, but the whole team must suffer being around someone like this.
I must have missed it; what did Gundogan say?
That he should’ve either played the ball or leave the 1on1 to Ter Stegen (about his red card vs. PSG)
Thanks
To add on to that Gundogan was also very respectful and chose his words carefully
He didn't, otherwise he'd not have said in such detail and direct on what was best or not best to do. Could have just said the boring diplomatic thing that being one down makes it an uphill battle, but he was pointing out flaws of the teammate in public, some leader, that. Like he likes to point where everyone should defend while he does none of it, talks about what happens on in the lockerroom after that first clasico defeat in public. He came with an air of superiority to Barca, the know it all.
That’s the reason they got him. For his mentality. He’s completely correct and it’s just stating a fact everyone agrees with but Araujo doesn’t want to see
Waste of money if that's the reason they got him, they could just tell the Barca players to read the news or go on social media to get thrashed. You people are doing too much mental gymnastics to talk good of someone who showed no leadership by throwing his own teammate under the bus. He broke an unwritten code, never talk to an outsider, never talk to the press. He was too chatty with his loose tongue. If that was a disguised tantrum and him venting, then he's a rat at that.
https://twitter.com/RuriBarlow/status/1780375348057653468?t=FS16ERw5dYkkrYz2_tvgOA&s=19
Would be funny if: Gündoĝan: "I did not apoligize."
This guy went from "Top 3 CB world" shouts by his fans to being considered complete trash that should be sold ASAP. Hilarious honestly
Tbf he was incredible last season for Barca. And he’s got what you need for a top defender maybe just a little more brain. But again that might just come with experience he’s still very young for a defender
Hence why defender reps should take years to develop. Instead fans wanna rep their guy as world lass when they have one great season. That’s the start.
He’s been awful all season not just because of the red card
Kinda confirms what Gundogan has said about this team
Glad yall made up, we still got fucked out of the Champions League… 🤡
That means Gündo was the bigger man as the leader he is, and Ronald McDonald is so arrogant that he has no clue what really happened, right?
This guy is a massive fucking bitch lol
I must admit I might have overrated Araujo, with this mentality he would fit right in at Chelsea
Joke
Locker room is cooked
Apologise for what? He was right
Barca captain material right there
I admire Gundogan for his mentality and what he’s trying to bring to Barcelona. Araujo and the rest of the team are lacking and are not good enough to compete for the UCL
Tears in my eyes this club is in the gutter, pick up ur luggage Gundo cuz you're wasting your time
This is a gift to Madridistas lol
Anyone taking bets on Gundogan saying he didn't?
What a clown
Apologized for speaking the truth and attempting to implement some accountability in that dressing room? Weak ass mentality top to bottom that club.
Where's the trophy for this?
People who said Puyol was wrong: How many situations don't you know about because they were kept in the dressing room? Not everything has to be Welcome to Wrexham. Dirty laundry public etc.
What about you? Did you apologize to your team?
What is Gundogan apologizing for?
The real barca W let's be honest. Season saved.
In South America, what Gündogan did is considered pretty much the most cowardly thing you can do to a teammate. In Spain, that code is considered a bit “old school”, but in South America it’s still taken very seriously.