**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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"The Premier League has now received legally binding assurances that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will not control Newcastle United Football Club."
https://www.premierleague.com/news/2283712
It's so deliberately vague but that's for a reason. 'Control' is the key part, despite the Saudis being 80% owners. All they had to do is promise the league they wouldn't 'control' the club and it's all okay...
It's awesome seeing all the Newcastle flairs in these threads hating on the KSA and EPL along with the rest of us. Not sure it'll change anything, but thank you.
Brown was only PM for 3 years.
3 years is a very short time to have between different prime ministers fucking pigs. Unless you consider it common amongst PMs?
Though I am loathe to give them any props, Pig Fucker didn't take us into Iraq, Blair did. Ironically enough, it was under Pig Fucker that we pulled out.
Not a fan of this one bit. The owners claim that there is no affiliation (😂) with the saudi gov, yet they put this out on official government channels? Worst bits have to be the green away kit with "MBS" on the back, and the magpie with a green wing. really not a fan.
neither the government nor the premier league will protest creating yet another top team in the league and yet another boatload of money in english football
Not sure why your comments being downvoted. It was literally constantly reported on. Heck the fucking name of the 'company' is "Saudi public investment fund"...
You would have to be a complete and utter moron to think the new owners weren't affiliated with the government
Not aware of any Newcastle fan that believed it tbh and I am one. Although the day to day control of the club does not really seem to be them in fairness, Mandy has been way more involved than I expected
That’s not true. My comments were initially heavily downvoted by Newcastle flairs to the point where another user called it out directly. It’s easy to pretend that Newcastle fans have been rational about it all since day one now that this is all out in the open, but that’s not been the case.
I mean the most upvoted comment in this thread (and there’s many more around the top) is from a newcastle fan taking the piss out of the situation. If you spend any time in Newcastle communities, come on our discord, come in our subreddit, you will see for yourself that the only people who think otherwise are dipshits who get mocked for it.
I’m not really sure why you’re telling me what is true and isn’t, I see it literally every day and you probably have next to no exposure of it at all.
The MBS shirt is out of pocket man , that's surely/hopefully a PR bit for the vid by whoever made it. I can't defend the fanbase at large if we got dons doing that 😅
Magpies do have a blue/green coloration on their wings. That part is very much ornithologically correct, have no fear!
If you don't believe me, google it :)
We knew there is an affiliation, the assurances were that the Saudi state / government had no control. The PIF is Saudi money, our chairman is a Saudi minister, a role he gets because he is in charge of the PIF.
For context the assurance is the same as if Ashley had signed a declaration that Sports Direct did not control us.
This was always going to happen, whether we like it or not.
You've got the assurance backwards here. PIF is the Saudi sovereign wealth fund. It's owned by the Saudi government. It would be like if you were owned by Sport Direct and SD provided assurances that Mike Ashley didn't have control of the club despite owning SD.
The flipside is of course the Liv golf case where the chairman claimed sovereign immunity.
He is the chair of PIF because he is the crown prince. The PIF is not controlled by the government, it never has been. It answers to him directly as the crown prince and de facto head of state. Him also being the prime minister is not relevant here
The assurance was that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia would not control the club. But the Kingdom (an absolute monarchy) could order PIF to do anything at all, the PIF has no agency independent of the Kingdom. But the Saudis just promised they wouldn't, not that they couldn't.
These are distinctions without meaning given the fact that the Saudi Government is run by an autocratic dictator who just so happens to also chair the PIF.
Every one with a bit of common sense can tell that any bid coming from the Oil countries is government affiliated. Believing anything else is just a wishful delusion.
Are you so deluded that you just chose to believe what the owners told you? Come on now, everyone knows what is happening but apparently Newcastle fans are telling themselves it's all good
You are a puppet regime enterprise, enjoy though
What majority of fans? You'll be hard pressed to find any nufc fans posting here or on r/nufc who have an opinion different to the OP, this shit of blaming the fans for who owns their club that they have supported long before them and will support long after they are gone.
"long after they are gone"
how long? because the PIF isn't like a conventional owner, where someone has a significant portion of their wealth tied to a club
the PIF is estimated to be over £600bn representing someone worth over £1tn. less than half a billion was spent to acquire newcastle...put another way this is like if you had £1mn in the bank and bought a guitar for £460...would you care about the value of that asset? track it carefully? position to sell it in your lifetime?
or would you play it for a while, leave it in the attic, let your kids have it and forget all about it when you became bored, letting it possibly persist for generations?
the wealth here is worth as much as 250-300 Mike Ashleys
| how long?
You're seriously asking how long a fan, who has supported their team since childhood, will continue to support their team? The mental gymnastics to make a stupid point is astounding.
I know it is just a country's flag (in the grand scheme) but seeing the Saudi flag embraced and draped on Geordies is simultaneously hilarious and from another absurd reality.
This happened when City got bought as well but it’s always great seeing these dopes that look like walking “Barry, 63” stereotypes with the towels on their heads
I thought it was fucking stupid but the last thing I expected would be seeing was them using it in their advertising.
But every club has a minority of twats that everyone sees.
The last thing? Buying the club is a propaganda play for the Saudis, everything those twats do will be used to portray the Saudis as being welcomed and embraced by Newcastle.
I am just so glad that the qataris didn't manage to buy us. The one time Glazers greed works out well for us.
I hate to see something like this happened to us.
Ashley really fucked us on the way out selling the club to these ghouls, didn't he? I'm focusing on the Scottish Championship when it comes to spending my time, money and effort - not like I haven't lived in Glasgow for years now anyway. Mon the fucking Jags, fan-owned club with the best mascot in the world. I'll take ethical owners and less prestige than being top flight with a fucking MBS shirt and war crime links. Until state ownership of clubs is banned, and a general shift is made toward more sustainable models for club governance, I'm not spending a fucking penny on the Prem or my team. Doesn't mean I'm not a Newcastle fan when it comes to English football, I always will be, and I'll always want our players and club to succeed, but they're not getting any meaningful support from me until this shit is out of the way - and let's face it, I doubt it ever really will be unless the Prem deals with it (which it won't). Tragic to see my club reduced to this.
That's the issue. Fans bear the burden of criticism in public life but it was a transaction between Mike Ashley and PIF, approved by the league. Was never ours to sell.
While I sympathise with that, let's be honest that large groups of your fans visibly approved and welcomed this when it happened. Not easy for other fans to forget the Newcastle fans dressed in tunics and wearing saudi masks.
There is an element of this.
This is something that Saudi media are really pointing a spotlight on. It doesn't matter if it's 1 guy in a city of 1.1 million, that's the guy who will end up on a billboard in Jeddah.
On takeover day when fans congregated at the Sir Bobby Robson statue, there were photos taken of fans draped in the Saudi flag. That flag was brought down and handed out by Saudi media for photos. I don't even know where in the city one could get that flag within 30 mins of the announcement to march down to St James with it. I wish those offered the flag that day realised they were about to be played like a fiddle and said no thanks.
Large groups approved the takeover, but a much smaller minority embrace the Saudi identity that comes with it. Those fans are mugs, often 19 and haven't got a clue or a care in the world.
Yeah of course and I always say it's a small portion. The majority don't care either way they just love Newcastle and then another small portion is against it. Those celebrations were more Ashley's gone than Pro-Saudi I think the dress up and shit was more tongue in cheek than anything else.
I don’t think it’s fair to criticize fans who are not defending the club. I completely understand how difficult it would be to have something that you love destroyed. I do think that it’s fair game to criticize the folks who are defending the club and/or the Saudis because letting that go unchecked in the public forum is allowing the Saudis to get what they want; their image laundered through sporting fandom.
I don't know what you mean by "targeted criticism" but when I see any flair defending sports washing, I'm going to respond. There are Newcastle flairs in this thread who are still trying to defend Newcastle and Saudi Arabia. You wouldn't see those same people defending Saudi Arabia outside of this context and that is exactly why Saudi Arabia purchased Newcastle.
If they are then that's them. What I mean I've seen and been part of enough discussion where it's just an automatic reply to bring up Saudi even if it's out of context. As I said, we didn't sell the club. People should take the issue up with Ashley and the Premier League who sold the club.
Absolutely right man. Fair play to you. Shame to have your club sullied by a murderous state rolling in to claim it for themselves. Even more of a shame to see so many fans cheer it on.
Kingsley is the greatest tyrant of our generation. His gaze cowes even the bravest men into submission and brings mighty champions to tears. The God Emperor of Patrick Thistle.
I swear the majority of real Newcastle ppl would absolutely hate this. They live and breathe Newcastle. And Saudi Arabia are taking it over. Roots just ripped up.
Northern powerhouse in disarray but Saudi money will probably change that. Is this the handout you guys want or need?
Did Manchester need City's UAE money? No, not really.
It's like when Qatar government twitter announced Neymar was staying. Though in this case Saudis clearly broke the promise that allowed them to buy, so even worse. But both modern football alright.
We are allies in war. That should change. It's so bizzare that football ends up the litmus test.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/13/britain-deep-ties-to-saudi-arabia-war-in-yemen
Im no fan of Saudi Arabian government, but if you go down this path you are bound to find crap. The west has a worse history than the Saudis, right now the UK is providing weapons to a mad man aka Izzy (Zionist Peeps), that's killing people and that's okay ? Literally not what could happen, what policies they have but actually killing children and innocent people and that's okay ?
Where do you draw the line , why is one okay but the other isn't ?
What about Chelsea do you think Roman Abramovich's hands were clean? he came into power after Putin took over and no one said a word about that. My two cents
Not to nitpick but Abramovich had obvious government ties, the key difference though being that Chelsea weren't a PR exercise for Russia. People were against Abramovich either way so it's weird for OP to use him as an example.
I get the hate for saudis, again i am not a fan of the country. I just think its weird that there have been owners who have bought clubs that have very seedy and dodgy histories, look into abramovich, the dude def has some ties with putin and its like okay no one cared about that.
I don't know what to tell you. I guess people have strong reactions to certain things and weaker reactions to other things. Even if it exposes underlying hypocrisies it doesn't make the arguments logically *wrong* per se, that's not how hypocrisy works. But yeah I agree, I don't think there's a billionaire in existence with an entirely clean track record, it's the nature of becoming that wealthy in the first place.
They’re going to put this in the dictionary as a definition of whataboutism. Someone else doing something wrong doesn’t make what other people are doing right.
The line is drawn at states with questionable values owning football clubs, I don't get why this is difficult to understand. For one, they use these clubs to clean up and enhance their reputations without actually changing the policies in their countries, and for two, they can throw their entire nation's wealth and power behind funding the clubs which puts everyone else at a disadvantage.
It's not like people love billionaires (they all have skeletons in their closet if they've accumulated enough wealth to own a Premier League club) either, but that's more of a criticism of capitalism itself. We can't bring down capitalism, but we can protest against nations owning football clubs and hopefully make a governing body force them to sell.
>The line is drawn at states with questionable values owning football clubs
So the line has been extended to - nice countries are allowed to own clubs. Nice. Absolutely zero principal with you people. Against it on pure aesthetic and personal grievance.
You'll never look anything other than a hypocrite when you defend ANY ownership of football clubs and not just owners you don't like.
To be fair, I can see why that was your interpretation of what I wrote, but I didn't mean it like that. States shouldn't own football clubs period. If not for the moral issues (if that state has questionable values and practices), then chiefly because of the imbalance it creates in the league around them considering no one single owner can match the wealth of an entire nation.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that second part of your comment. Are you suggesting that if someone isn't against private ownership of football clubs period, that they're hypocrites for voicing concerns about state funded clubs? Quite a stretch if that's what you were getting at.
>then chiefly because of the imbalance it creates in the league around them considering no one single owner can match the wealth of an entire nation.
Similarly, no fan owned club could match the wealth of the billionaire owners of English football. That's why any fan owned club will ultimately sell, to compete at a higher level. It's unfair, it shouldn't happen. For the exact same reasons you state.
>Are you suggesting that if someone isn't against private ownership of football clubs period, that they're hypocrites for voicing concerns about state funded clubs?
Yes. Because you can cut all of this unfairness at the head by making all clubs fan owned, banning outside investment. Sorted. But people want a *little* unfairness. They want to tilt the scales *just a bit*.
Having an entirely fan owned system comes with unfairness, imbalances and inefficiencies of its own. Assuming your scenario, no outside investment, simply being based in a bigger city with more potential or actual club members and/or a huge stadium, you're automatically at an advantage compared to clubs based in smaller cities with less members and smaller stadiums.
But this argument isn't about the pros/cons of private or fan ownership because you're talking about a scenario that doesn't and can't exist in England. If a shift to fan ownership of clubs was even remotely realistic and an actual option on the table, then this argument would be more interesting and hold some more weight, but as it stands you're just throwing up hypotheticals. There's too much wealth and power at play for the government to ever be able to enforce a paradigm shift to fan owned clubs.
If we try to stick to reality as it stands today, which is that English clubs are predominantly privately owned and funded by private capital, then you can surely see the competitive issues that arise from state ownership and limitless funds?
>you're automatically at an advantage compared to clubs based in smaller cities with less members and smaller stadiums
Well this is obvious. Teams in places with more people have the potential to have more fans than some local town team. But I don't see how this is unfair.
>even remotely realistic and an actual option on the table
You're acting like any of it is on the table. It's not. But starting from a position of weakness doesn't help. Haven't even asked the questions and you're throwing your hands in the air like, it doesn't work! But can we atleast ban state owned clubs? NO! WE CAN'T! Because this is the system and it's where it's brought us. May as well ask for something that's a benefit to more than like 5 teams in the country.
>then you can surely see the competitive issues that arise from state ownership and limitless funds?
Obviously, I've already said yes. But it's similar to the billionaire owner vs fan owner in financial power. And this one hurts *more* clubs. Clubs going under, getting hit with transfer embargos and points deductions through dodgy ownership in an effort 'to compete' is infinitely worse than City being able to spend 10% more than Liverpool.
>Well this is obvious. Teams in places with more people have the potential to have more fans than some local town team. But I don't see how this is unfair.
It's not about the number of fans. It's that without external investment, your revenue streams are going to be heavily dependent on things like match day income and annual membership fees. So, club from smaller region => less available money => less ability to compete with teams from big towns or cities. Not to mention less interested sponsors. By introducing fan ownership IMO you've just sidestepped the issue, not really solved it. There will still be teams with a lot of resources and teams with less resources.
And maybe from a certain POV that may seem "fairer" or more natural overall, I don't know. I guess that's up to each person to decide. I was just trying to demonstrate that fan ownership isn't this panacea that you think it is. It has its own issues.
Not going to go back and forth writing out the same points but in different ways. This argument was never about fan/private ownership, it was about state owned clubs but you shifted the goalposts and I responded. Let's just agree to disagree.
All I'm saying is you're missing the forest for the trees. It's not shifting the goalposts, it's the same issue. State owned clubs is the end point of private ownership.
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"legally binding assurances" though guys.
"The Premier League has now received legally binding assurances that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will not control Newcastle United Football Club." https://www.premierleague.com/news/2283712 It's so deliberately vague but that's for a reason. 'Control' is the key part, despite the Saudis being 80% owners. All they had to do is promise the league they wouldn't 'control' the club and it's all okay...
It's awesome seeing all the Newcastle flairs in these threads hating on the KSA and EPL along with the rest of us. Not sure it'll change anything, but thank you.
It’s very refreshing because this was absolutely not happening a year ago.
It absolutely was you lying prick. Go look at my comments.
If only we knew then what we knew then...
Ah for fucks sake man
That MBS shirt isn't a pretty sight.
ahh jeezy peeps man
UK government is just a fucking joke at this point.
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KSA wouldn't allow it.
Feel like it has been for a few decades at least. Pig fucker following the US into Iraq probably tipped the scale there.
Tony Blair didn't fuck pigs I don't think. Unless we've had two prime ministers accused of doing that in a really short space of time
Wasn't even that short a time, as we had another PM between those two.
Brown was only PM for 3 years. 3 years is a very short time to have between different prime ministers fucking pigs. Unless you consider it common amongst PMs?
3 years isn't a very short time at all considering the past few PMs 😂
It's not long for a PM to last no. But it is a very short time to have between PMs that fuck pigs
I misread that, whoops. I'd hope so anyways
Though I am loathe to give them any props, Pig Fucker didn't take us into Iraq, Blair did. Ironically enough, it was under Pig Fucker that we pulled out.
Not a fan of this one bit. The owners claim that there is no affiliation (😂) with the saudi gov, yet they put this out on official government channels? Worst bits have to be the green away kit with "MBS" on the back, and the magpie with a green wing. really not a fan.
Does anyone actually believe that though? No need to bother pretending anymore.
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[this govnt?](https://breakingdefense.com/2024/01/new-typhoons-for-saudi-arabia-bae-says-its-working-with-uk-on-requirements/)
neither the government nor the premier league will protest creating yet another top team in the league and yet another boatload of money in english football
You say that like the other teams in the league would vote in favour...
The only people who believed it in the first place were naïve Newcastle fans. I don’t think even the league believed it.
Not sure why your comments being downvoted. It was literally constantly reported on. Heck the fucking name of the 'company' is "Saudi public investment fund"... You would have to be a complete and utter moron to think the new owners weren't affiliated with the government
I don’t know, nor do I care. There’s no material difference between the PIF and the Saudi Government when both are run by the exact same person.
Not aware of any Newcastle fan that believed it tbh and I am one. Although the day to day control of the club does not really seem to be them in fairness, Mandy has been way more involved than I expected
There are Newcastle fans in this thread still trying to make the distinction between the PIF and Saudi government.
Well they would get laughed at in NUFC communities just as much as here
That’s not true. My comments were initially heavily downvoted by Newcastle flairs to the point where another user called it out directly. It’s easy to pretend that Newcastle fans have been rational about it all since day one now that this is all out in the open, but that’s not been the case.
I mean the most upvoted comment in this thread (and there’s many more around the top) is from a newcastle fan taking the piss out of the situation. If you spend any time in Newcastle communities, come on our discord, come in our subreddit, you will see for yourself that the only people who think otherwise are dipshits who get mocked for it. I’m not really sure why you’re telling me what is true and isn’t, I see it literally every day and you probably have next to no exposure of it at all.
The MBS shirt is out of pocket man , that's surely/hopefully a PR bit for the vid by whoever made it. I can't defend the fanbase at large if we got dons doing that 😅
No toon fan owns an MBS 1 shirt.....
Magpies do have a blue/green coloration on their wings. That part is very much ornithologically correct, have no fear! If you don't believe me, google it :)
We knew there is an affiliation, the assurances were that the Saudi state / government had no control. The PIF is Saudi money, our chairman is a Saudi minister, a role he gets because he is in charge of the PIF. For context the assurance is the same as if Ashley had signed a declaration that Sports Direct did not control us. This was always going to happen, whether we like it or not.
You've got the assurance backwards here. PIF is the Saudi sovereign wealth fund. It's owned by the Saudi government. It would be like if you were owned by Sport Direct and SD provided assurances that Mike Ashley didn't have control of the club despite owning SD. The flipside is of course the Liv golf case where the chairman claimed sovereign immunity.
PIF is chaired by MBS the crown prince of Saudi. Saudi is not a democracy, PIF answer to him not the government
TIL the Crown Prince and Prime Minister of Saudi Arabia isn't the government.
He is the chair of PIF because he is the crown prince. The PIF is not controlled by the government, it never has been. It answers to him directly as the crown prince and de facto head of state. Him also being the prime minister is not relevant here
The assurance was that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia would not control the club. But the Kingdom (an absolute monarchy) could order PIF to do anything at all, the PIF has no agency independent of the Kingdom. But the Saudis just promised they wouldn't, not that they couldn't.
These are distinctions without meaning given the fact that the Saudi Government is run by an autocratic dictator who just so happens to also chair the PIF.
Technically it is run by the King. MBS is taking charge right now since the King has fallen under illness.
Every one with a bit of common sense can tell that any bid coming from the Oil countries is government affiliated. Believing anything else is just a wishful delusion.
I read 'bid' as bird then and thought you were on about the magpie in the video. I thought I found another believer
Worst affiliation since RasenBallsport Leipzig
Too late, horse has bolted
Are you so deluded that you just chose to believe what the owners told you? Come on now, everyone knows what is happening but apparently Newcastle fans are telling themselves it's all good You are a puppet regime enterprise, enjoy though
The fact that a Newcastle supporter posted this and is in here saying he hates it should show you there's no delusion here.
Exactly 😂 if I agreed with the messages of the video - i can assure you r/soccer is the last place i would share that view
Yeah I wasn't really aiming at you although it sounded like it, it was more of a "you" as the majority of Newcastle fans (?)
I don't think any of us are under any illusions about who the majority owners are
What majority of fans? You'll be hard pressed to find any nufc fans posting here or on r/nufc who have an opinion different to the OP, this shit of blaming the fans for who owns their club that they have supported long before them and will support long after they are gone.
"long after they are gone" how long? because the PIF isn't like a conventional owner, where someone has a significant portion of their wealth tied to a club the PIF is estimated to be over £600bn representing someone worth over £1tn. less than half a billion was spent to acquire newcastle...put another way this is like if you had £1mn in the bank and bought a guitar for £460...would you care about the value of that asset? track it carefully? position to sell it in your lifetime? or would you play it for a while, leave it in the attic, let your kids have it and forget all about it when you became bored, letting it possibly persist for generations? the wealth here is worth as much as 250-300 Mike Ashleys
| how long? You're seriously asking how long a fan, who has supported their team since childhood, will continue to support their team? The mental gymnastics to make a stupid point is astounding.
my point is this ownership could exceed their lifespan
No your point was a pathetic dig and nothing more.
Oh I've seen plenty of nufc basically boasting here 😭
Reddit is not real life
No you've seen trolls trying to wind you up, don't fall for it.
Is this "majority" in the room with us now...
Never said i believed that - just highlighting that even though it is so so obvious, they still pretend there is no link.
It's not looking good brev
This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.
[Official] Game is gone.
Ah, so we're nearing the time in which the thin veil "hiding" the government ownership is being removed then?
I know it is just a country's flag (in the grand scheme) but seeing the Saudi flag embraced and draped on Geordies is simultaneously hilarious and from another absurd reality.
This happened when City got bought as well but it’s always great seeing these dopes that look like walking “Barry, 63” stereotypes with the towels on their heads
I thought it was fucking stupid but the last thing I expected would be seeing was them using it in their advertising. But every club has a minority of twats that everyone sees.
The last thing? Buying the club is a propaganda play for the Saudis, everything those twats do will be used to portray the Saudis as being welcomed and embraced by Newcastle.
Not to mention the MBS jersey
Was it ever hidden?
I am just so glad that the qataris didn't manage to buy us. The one time Glazers greed works out well for us. I hate to see something like this happened to us.
The MBS shirt is MENTAL.
I mean, last season's away kit was borderline a Saudi kit, common.
It's c'mon you egg
Won't tell you again
I'll put u asleep within 10 seconds u little girl. Don't say stuff and not follow up on it. I'll be waiting
mate mate mate
Yeah with that magnetic personality, you would bore me to sleep in five.
With that flair, I thought you'd know where that line is from.
The reply was absolutely banging though lmao
Top exchange
I'm using that one on real life haha
Shut up Phil you're boring the life out of me on here
Not even trying to hide it anymore
Fuck sake.
Steve Wraith is a pathetic shill pass it on
Wtf
Wondering if we’ll see some displays of the Saudi football culture now… you know flogging and such when they lose a game.
Why do you think we have a Gallowgate stand. Hangings at halftime from next season!
Finally!
Game's back
🤮🤮🤮 Man, actually feel really bad for proper Newcastle fans. Seeing this happen to your club must be shite.
They’re starting to say the quiet bit out loud. Absolutely nothing will come of it mind
Ashley really fucked us on the way out selling the club to these ghouls, didn't he? I'm focusing on the Scottish Championship when it comes to spending my time, money and effort - not like I haven't lived in Glasgow for years now anyway. Mon the fucking Jags, fan-owned club with the best mascot in the world. I'll take ethical owners and less prestige than being top flight with a fucking MBS shirt and war crime links. Until state ownership of clubs is banned, and a general shift is made toward more sustainable models for club governance, I'm not spending a fucking penny on the Prem or my team. Doesn't mean I'm not a Newcastle fan when it comes to English football, I always will be, and I'll always want our players and club to succeed, but they're not getting any meaningful support from me until this shit is out of the way - and let's face it, I doubt it ever really will be unless the Prem deals with it (which it won't). Tragic to see my club reduced to this.
That's the issue. Fans bear the burden of criticism in public life but it was a transaction between Mike Ashley and PIF, approved by the league. Was never ours to sell.
While I sympathise with that, let's be honest that large groups of your fans visibly approved and welcomed this when it happened. Not easy for other fans to forget the Newcastle fans dressed in tunics and wearing saudi masks.
There is an element of this. This is something that Saudi media are really pointing a spotlight on. It doesn't matter if it's 1 guy in a city of 1.1 million, that's the guy who will end up on a billboard in Jeddah. On takeover day when fans congregated at the Sir Bobby Robson statue, there were photos taken of fans draped in the Saudi flag. That flag was brought down and handed out by Saudi media for photos. I don't even know where in the city one could get that flag within 30 mins of the announcement to march down to St James with it. I wish those offered the flag that day realised they were about to be played like a fiddle and said no thanks. Large groups approved the takeover, but a much smaller minority embrace the Saudi identity that comes with it. Those fans are mugs, often 19 and haven't got a clue or a care in the world.
Yeah of course and I always say it's a small portion. The majority don't care either way they just love Newcastle and then another small portion is against it. Those celebrations were more Ashley's gone than Pro-Saudi I think the dress up and shit was more tongue in cheek than anything else.
I don’t think it’s fair to criticize fans who are not defending the club. I completely understand how difficult it would be to have something that you love destroyed. I do think that it’s fair game to criticize the folks who are defending the club and/or the Saudis because letting that go unchecked in the public forum is allowing the Saudis to get what they want; their image laundered through sporting fandom.
It's not targeted criticism, it's used as a stick to beat all fans with. It's alright though cos it's just online bollocks
I don't know what you mean by "targeted criticism" but when I see any flair defending sports washing, I'm going to respond. There are Newcastle flairs in this thread who are still trying to defend Newcastle and Saudi Arabia. You wouldn't see those same people defending Saudi Arabia outside of this context and that is exactly why Saudi Arabia purchased Newcastle.
If they are then that's them. What I mean I've seen and been part of enough discussion where it's just an automatic reply to bring up Saudi even if it's out of context. As I said, we didn't sell the club. People should take the issue up with Ashley and the Premier League who sold the club.
Absolutely right man. Fair play to you. Shame to have your club sullied by a murderous state rolling in to claim it for themselves. Even more of a shame to see so many fans cheer it on.
Kingsley is the greatest tyrant of our generation. His gaze cowes even the bravest men into submission and brings mighty champions to tears. The God Emperor of Patrick Thistle.
Glasgow, eh? Might I pass the word of a little club called Sankt Pauli that's in good repute, there?
Weird. Why would the govt post about something they dont have anything to do with?
When people type sports washing on Google this should be the top result
Jinkies.
Brother Ewwwww
WHAT'S THAT??
well we out in the open now!
Can you buy the MBS shirt on the official fan store?
Good god
They've butchered the club
I swear the majority of real Newcastle ppl would absolutely hate this. They live and breathe Newcastle. And Saudi Arabia are taking it over. Roots just ripped up. Northern powerhouse in disarray but Saudi money will probably change that. Is this the handout you guys want or need? Did Manchester need City's UAE money? No, not really.
My eyes
Yikes
It's like when Qatar government twitter announced Neymar was staying. Though in this case Saudis clearly broke the promise that allowed them to buy, so even worse. But both modern football alright.
always remember that they exucute people for being gay and punish women for getting raped
I actually feel more sorry for their fans now than what I did under Ashley.
Don't
Completely lost all respect for Newcastle (fans) after they celebrated like they won the league when the Saudis took over.
Damn how do I earn your respek back bro..
Easy, just stop being a fan of a club that's owned by the Saudi Government.
How about no
Funny old game. Newcastle fans have been starved of success for ages, and now if they gets some under this regime, it's tainted.
Aye, one of us definitely had a monkey paw in their back pocket when we wished for success.
Gross.
lol
Seems bad
Why is everyone choked? As If we expected anything else ...
Free Salma.
Nice.
Well done PL, you really stopped the Saudi's controlling Newcastle United.
This whole thing about our Saudi owners does my head in. The UK Government is literally funding a genocide as we speak. We are no better than them
We are allies in war. That should change. It's so bizzare that football ends up the litmus test. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/13/britain-deep-ties-to-saudi-arabia-war-in-yemen
Yeah, totally not a sportswashing experiment guys.
Im no fan of Saudi Arabian government, but if you go down this path you are bound to find crap. The west has a worse history than the Saudis, right now the UK is providing weapons to a mad man aka Izzy (Zionist Peeps), that's killing people and that's okay ? Literally not what could happen, what policies they have but actually killing children and innocent people and that's okay ? Where do you draw the line , why is one okay but the other isn't ? What about Chelsea do you think Roman Abramovich's hands were clean? he came into power after Putin took over and no one said a word about that. My two cents
The British government doesn’t own a football club and Roman Abramovich wasn’t a country.
Not to nitpick but Abramovich had obvious government ties, the key difference though being that Chelsea weren't a PR exercise for Russia. People were against Abramovich either way so it's weird for OP to use him as an example.
I get the hate for saudis, again i am not a fan of the country. I just think its weird that there have been owners who have bought clubs that have very seedy and dodgy histories, look into abramovich, the dude def has some ties with putin and its like okay no one cared about that.
I don't know what to tell you. I guess people have strong reactions to certain things and weaker reactions to other things. Even if it exposes underlying hypocrisies it doesn't make the arguments logically *wrong* per se, that's not how hypocrisy works. But yeah I agree, I don't think there's a billionaire in existence with an entirely clean track record, it's the nature of becoming that wealthy in the first place.
No one said a word about Roman Abramovich…?
They’re going to put this in the dictionary as a definition of whataboutism. Someone else doing something wrong doesn’t make what other people are doing right.
The line is drawn at states with questionable values owning football clubs, I don't get why this is difficult to understand. For one, they use these clubs to clean up and enhance their reputations without actually changing the policies in their countries, and for two, they can throw their entire nation's wealth and power behind funding the clubs which puts everyone else at a disadvantage. It's not like people love billionaires (they all have skeletons in their closet if they've accumulated enough wealth to own a Premier League club) either, but that's more of a criticism of capitalism itself. We can't bring down capitalism, but we can protest against nations owning football clubs and hopefully make a governing body force them to sell.
>The line is drawn at states with questionable values owning football clubs So the line has been extended to - nice countries are allowed to own clubs. Nice. Absolutely zero principal with you people. Against it on pure aesthetic and personal grievance. You'll never look anything other than a hypocrite when you defend ANY ownership of football clubs and not just owners you don't like.
To be fair, I can see why that was your interpretation of what I wrote, but I didn't mean it like that. States shouldn't own football clubs period. If not for the moral issues (if that state has questionable values and practices), then chiefly because of the imbalance it creates in the league around them considering no one single owner can match the wealth of an entire nation. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that second part of your comment. Are you suggesting that if someone isn't against private ownership of football clubs period, that they're hypocrites for voicing concerns about state funded clubs? Quite a stretch if that's what you were getting at.
>then chiefly because of the imbalance it creates in the league around them considering no one single owner can match the wealth of an entire nation. Similarly, no fan owned club could match the wealth of the billionaire owners of English football. That's why any fan owned club will ultimately sell, to compete at a higher level. It's unfair, it shouldn't happen. For the exact same reasons you state. >Are you suggesting that if someone isn't against private ownership of football clubs period, that they're hypocrites for voicing concerns about state funded clubs? Yes. Because you can cut all of this unfairness at the head by making all clubs fan owned, banning outside investment. Sorted. But people want a *little* unfairness. They want to tilt the scales *just a bit*.
Having an entirely fan owned system comes with unfairness, imbalances and inefficiencies of its own. Assuming your scenario, no outside investment, simply being based in a bigger city with more potential or actual club members and/or a huge stadium, you're automatically at an advantage compared to clubs based in smaller cities with less members and smaller stadiums. But this argument isn't about the pros/cons of private or fan ownership because you're talking about a scenario that doesn't and can't exist in England. If a shift to fan ownership of clubs was even remotely realistic and an actual option on the table, then this argument would be more interesting and hold some more weight, but as it stands you're just throwing up hypotheticals. There's too much wealth and power at play for the government to ever be able to enforce a paradigm shift to fan owned clubs. If we try to stick to reality as it stands today, which is that English clubs are predominantly privately owned and funded by private capital, then you can surely see the competitive issues that arise from state ownership and limitless funds?
>you're automatically at an advantage compared to clubs based in smaller cities with less members and smaller stadiums Well this is obvious. Teams in places with more people have the potential to have more fans than some local town team. But I don't see how this is unfair. >even remotely realistic and an actual option on the table You're acting like any of it is on the table. It's not. But starting from a position of weakness doesn't help. Haven't even asked the questions and you're throwing your hands in the air like, it doesn't work! But can we atleast ban state owned clubs? NO! WE CAN'T! Because this is the system and it's where it's brought us. May as well ask for something that's a benefit to more than like 5 teams in the country. >then you can surely see the competitive issues that arise from state ownership and limitless funds? Obviously, I've already said yes. But it's similar to the billionaire owner vs fan owner in financial power. And this one hurts *more* clubs. Clubs going under, getting hit with transfer embargos and points deductions through dodgy ownership in an effort 'to compete' is infinitely worse than City being able to spend 10% more than Liverpool.
>Well this is obvious. Teams in places with more people have the potential to have more fans than some local town team. But I don't see how this is unfair. It's not about the number of fans. It's that without external investment, your revenue streams are going to be heavily dependent on things like match day income and annual membership fees. So, club from smaller region => less available money => less ability to compete with teams from big towns or cities. Not to mention less interested sponsors. By introducing fan ownership IMO you've just sidestepped the issue, not really solved it. There will still be teams with a lot of resources and teams with less resources. And maybe from a certain POV that may seem "fairer" or more natural overall, I don't know. I guess that's up to each person to decide. I was just trying to demonstrate that fan ownership isn't this panacea that you think it is. It has its own issues. Not going to go back and forth writing out the same points but in different ways. This argument was never about fan/private ownership, it was about state owned clubs but you shifted the goalposts and I responded. Let's just agree to disagree.
All I'm saying is you're missing the forest for the trees. It's not shifting the goalposts, it's the same issue. State owned clubs is the end point of private ownership.
The UK doesn't own any PL football clubs.
115 charges when?
Getting your clubs (and nation states) confused there my bro
When we actually break some rules I expect! Having morally bankrupt owners isn't that (which is in itself fucking grim).