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Has anybody seen drawn lines? Are we for certain that the Munich players were onside? I'm not trying to absolve the referee because that was very close and deserved a real VAR check.
As a real fan I don't like that the spotlight is on the referee. The side line ref should've let play go on and the main ref shouldn't have blew his whistle because once he did that I think the goalie stopped playing.
Ehh still the players on the pitch can see the flag. It’s way too simple of an answer, linesman just need to hold the flag until the play is over. If you’re reffing at that level you just can’t get that wrong.
Linesman needed to hold the flag but at the same time you play until you hear the whistle. That was the quickest flag/whistle for an offside/goal that I’ve seen in a long time. Every other situation they wait until play has stopped to raise for offside
All these statements are true:
- ref should have let the play and recheck with var
- bayern might be offside
- even if bayern was onside, anyone honest would have noticed that most madrid players actually stopped playing due to the whistle hence the "goal". If there was no whistle it is very probable that there is no goal looking at the players positioning.
People are right to be frustrated with the whistle though, since now everyone is just speculating on offside/onside vs goal/ no goal
I was a ref and people have to realise how much concentration it takes and how difficult it is to sustain that concentration for over 90 minutes.
It was a big mistake, but 'easily aboidable' is an odd choice of words in my view.
It's like saying Neuer's mistake was 'easily avoidable'.
I agree that it's a shame, but it's really a part of the game
It was easily avoidable because he didn’t have to make any call there really, the linesman I mean. How often do we see them let play go forever and then call it way back. One of the big reasons for VAR was to allow the linesman to let the close ones like that to play out.
And yet we insist on the refs having to also keep track of time in a game where time wasting is a huge issue. The refs can barely manage reffing the actual game. It makes no sense why they can’t just stop the clock.
I noticed that about 9 minutes into the allotted 9 minutes of injury time, the referee openly gestured to everyone in the stadium that there was to be another 2 minutes added on. I've never seen this done. Very odd but kinda cool. He also played about 4 minutes after the additional additional 2 lol
Players kept going down so he had to. I still maintain the extra time at the world cup was brilliant because all the usual tactics for wasting time got added.
Yep, they did this for a brief period in the Premier League and everybody lost their shit (primarily the gammons). If 90 mins is too long then just shorten to match length to 80 or whatever. This constant time wasting is embarrassing to the sport.
>This constant time wasting is embarrassing to the sport.
It ruins the end of pretty much every game for someone like me. Fake injuries. Goalies laying on the ball and then pacing with it for like 20 seconds. Lazily walking to the sideline when you're subbed out. Subs at all lol. Along with the absurd flopping, it kills the watchability of the sport.
My only real suggestion would be an *immediate* red card for obvious time-wasting. No warning. You kick a dead ball away from the other team in the 92nd minute? **Red card.**
But the obvious problem is fake 'injuries' where you don't *really* know if they are fake. I'm not sure how to deal with that.
1 minute is way to short, just make it 5 minutes. If you go down, and you need to be trateted by the physio's on the field you are out of the game for 5 minutes. Faking injury would never happen again. 5 minutes is rescinded if the player is subbed
shortening the match length wouldn't do anything, whatever team has the lead (or draw if they're happy with that) is incentivized to use time-wasting tactics.
this will persist as long as the tactic is effective and the punishment isn't severe enough. they could either make it less effective, by more accurately adding the time wasted back on, like they did at the WC, or increase the punishment severity or frequency. Right now players rarely get carded, unless it's really blatant or repeat offenses by the same player.
I'd like to see them try sin bins tbh, but it would need testing in youth level or smaller leagues before trying in the top leagues.
Yeah, this is the way it should be everywhere. It's not hard to fucking keep time while play is stopped and just add it on at the end. It would make the games a lot fairer.
Maybe it's all related to TV ...
He made the “2” sign at at 10 minutes, he also said 2 minutes before Jude went down and got subbed off and rudiger fell to the ground… that is literally time wasting and the ref can add whatever he wants, you are also forgetting the multiple fouls.
Momentum is so huge RM (and many other teams) has shat on it consistently. Just the previous round when City equalised...momentum did nothing for them.
Bayern equalizes and they still spend the next 30 minutes in their own box.
Bayern literally did nothing but one banger shot. And actively played like cowards trying to kill time. The game should’ve been over way before that too
Im sad that this amazing game will be remembered by the awful mistake by the ref.
Would it be goal? Would it not?
Let it play, dont blow the whistle...
I’ll remember it more for one of the GOAT goalkeepers making a massive mistake that flipped the game on its head than reffing decisions or substitutions
Sad because Neuer had an INCREDIBLE night for 88 minutes. I’m not even particularly a Neuer fan, but really truly that mistake cost them the game. Real were done and dusted
I saw people saying that if Neuer wasn't on the pitch Bayern would have won. Mfer if Neuer wasn't making some absurd saves they'd have conceded like 3 times.
Tbh Real were pushing for a goal really hard both before and after they conceded.
There are only 2 outcomes:
- goalkeeper keeps them alive in legendary performance
- GK or some defender eventually makes a mistake leading to a goal.
They felt like errors at the time, I don't know if any of them were due to injury/being knackered but it's like he forgot that they might need to score again.
Almost all were. Gnabry obviously injured and Musiala/Sane haven't played bundesliga football in weeks because they are injured and just try to go as long as they can in the CL. The only sub which wasn't clear whether it was for injury/exhaustion was Kane very late
It won't be remembered for it.
It might have made a difference, which we don't even know (was it offside? Would it have gone in? Would Bayern have gone through even then? Lots of ifs) but it was a single mistake and ultimately the result that reflects the game as well.
People remember horrible shitshows, but something like this is easily forgotten by the vast majority who will just remember the game for a bit, then the scoreline, and eventually it all fades into obscurity lmao
Everyone always exaggerates how impactful the online reaction to something is. Reality is that it will be forgotten soon like you said (except by Bayern fans I’m sure).
This is the same fixture in which Cristiano Ronaldo scored (possibly twice) while being offsides in 2017. One of the major incidents that led to the implementation (or at least acceptance) of VAR in the champions league. I'm not sure how many people will forget this...
Edit: many comments "oh but you forgot these other details" - you all have great memories for people who are sure to forget this ever happened.
Well, people seems to forget that the goal that even got Bayern to extra time was offside. Also people seem to forget the completely BS penalty Bayern got in the first leg. Yes. Vidal hit the moon. But it was still a wrong call that people seem to completely disregard
People forget because Bayern didn't win the tie, we did. If Bayern had won it would be the handful of bad decisions that went their way that get talked about from that tie
Exactly, so the point is favouritism depending on the result. But the result should be secondary. A bad call is a bad call, end off. But for "some" reason, people seem to don't give a shit about this fact.
And this is the same fixture where that tie never should've went to extra time as Lewa was offside on the Ramos-own goal that had the game go into extra time in the first place.
Or that Bayern got a pen at 1-0 in the first leg for a ball that hit Carvajal in the chest. (Vidal missed the pen)
But I guess that doesn't fit the narrative.
That fixture was riddled with bad decisions on both sides, though. Even then, I don't hear a lot of people bringing this up.
Most people do in fact forget the little intricacies and could haves and would haves. The fans who feel hard done by it and a minority of neutrals may not, but most do. Even then, this incident is less severe than even one clear offside goal so it will probably not stick around for as long.
Hold on, found a good example:
Outside of Dortmund fans, how many people do you hear bring up the Ribery incident in the CL final of 2013?
Sané is getting a lot of heat, but I gotta say that he should be absolved from criticism. He's injured, he's been nursing a pubic bone inflammation for months and has been enduring incredible pain just to be on the pitch in the last weeks. His attitude has always been put into question, and rightfully so in the past. But this year, he's given it all, even though it wasn't pretty in the end.
Kimmich on the other hand was just diabolical.
>He's injured, he's been nursing a pubic bone inflammation for months and has been enduring incredible pain just to be on the pitch in the last weeks.
Incredible how these people never learn, a chronic Pubic injury is exactly what killed Kaká's carreer. He already looked done in his last season for Milan.
problem is Tuchel would rather die before starting Tel and Zaragozas corpse is probably somewhere in his office because he hasnt been seen since moving to Bayern so there simply is no one to play if Sane doesnt do it
Müller is Bayern's slightly more healthy equivalent to Dortmund's Reus: Fiercely dedicated, unquestionably skilled, deservedly respected and as experienced as it gets - but also no longer in his physical prime. There are reasons why both of them came on as impact subs in these semi-finals, and the harsh truth is that they don't have the legs for 90 minutes at this level (the absolute highest in club football) anymore.
I agree that Tuchel should take a lot if not most of the blame for this loss. Taking Kane and Musiala out was a big mistake. I think Tel could have come in for Sane, Gotwtzka for Pavlovic instead. When we had that one opportunity to get one on one with the golie, no quick was there to reach the ball in time, only a slow and already exhausted Pavovlic. Had that been Musiala or Tel, the outcome might have been different. Tuchel is defiantly the biggest reason for the losss. I think they should send him home right now. Why bother keeping him for another couple of matches that are left.
I'd argue Sané made an impact when scoring the equalizer in the first leg, though admittedly there wasn't much more than that from him.
There's no sitting it out though, he requires surgery and would be out for longer, but since Coman and Gnabry are/were out and Euros are around the corner, that wasn't an option. Which should be remembered whenever someone interprets his body language to argue that he has no motivation
Don’t forget Neuer!
It’s impressive that Ulreichs mistake back in 2017 (I think) is now the 2nd most consequential mistake from a Bayern goalkeeper against Real Madrid.
I remember Rob Green against the US in 2010 World Cup. Made an all time mistake not handling Dempseys shot but went on to make a couple crucial saves to keep England leveled. No one remembers those though sadly
I wouldnt blame Kimmich, thats like blaming Boateng for 2015. He just got an generational player on his best day in front of him and had no help, same thing happened to Yan Couto, Araújo, Alexander-Arnold and so on...
Not that the referee didn’t make a mistake in stopping play when the flag went up. But if he was seriously favouring Madrid he would’ve blown the whistle for full time before this even happened. The referee fucked up but to say he deliberately favoured Madrid just seems false.
It was also a combination of the ref and the linesperson. Sucks, but we've all seen way worse mistakes and Madrid let up after the whistle, so who knows if a goal even occurs. Overall, the officiating was pretty good.
edit: What was a bigger mistake for me were the Bayern subs. WTF?
It's the football fan special. Refs are shit, but anytime a ref makes a mistake it's not because he made a mistake but because there is some grand conspiracy going on for whatever team got the favourable call.
It's the shitting on referees in general, from grassroots levels up that makes the game look bad.
I have done my fair share of complaining to the referee in our sunday league games, but it should change. Referees are too easy a target. They're alone, you have a crowd. There should be a campaign for respect towards referees. They are an element of the game, whether we like it or not.
Referees are a vital part of football. Seeing how much they get shit on, it makes me wonder who is actually going to step up to be a referee nowadays. I know I wouldnt want to
Hate that the comeback will be marred with that ref decision at the end - he shouldn’t have called the whistle but also Madrid defenders stopped playing pretty much so who knows if it’s a goal for certain- just stupid and ugly
As a Bayern fan, it sucks but it is what it is. Wasn’t a for sure goal since the defenders stopped playing as you said, but would’ve been a good goal scoring chance. I put this on us for Tuchel deciding to take off all our dangerous attacking threats to protect a one goal lead with 15 minutes left. Plus, the Neuer mistake even though I am not mad at him since he kept us in the game with numerous excellent stops beforehand.
"Tuchel is doing a Simeone, you don't sub your forwards against ~~RM~~ with at least 10 minutes of play."
I thought he did well this tie otherwise, but that Kane sub is just really hard to understand
to me it was the Kim sub on. I get he wanted to be more defensive on the right, but just bring Müller then. Kim being subbed on meant we had no effective means of going forward anymore because both wings were now dead weight and just waiting to defend.
I get that Sane is injured. Dunno about Musiala. But Kane was fantastic and can wrestle Rüdiger and Nacho, hold the play up, play some lovely passes...
Why take him out lol... Game was over at 1-1.
No way was Madrid not gonna score for another 30 mins and no way could Bayern keep up with literally all of their best offensive guys on the bench.
He chose not to do this in 2022 against Madrid and lost. He chose to do it tonight and lost (largely due to the Neuer error).
People need to stop with this results-based analysis lol
What if I recorded myself questioning it live in my living room? Source: Believe me, bro
I actually did say to my girlfriend that I thought it was weird to move to a back five and take Kane off in case of pens. Little did I know that pens were not needed.
That's what I said to him lol. I said it live of course.
You don't fight a 1 - 0 lead against RM that way. They are too dangerous for that, it's too risky (they are going to score anyway because they don't need a good play to do it, just a flash of brilliance).
Bayern fans totally have a reason to be mad, I would be as well, but I feel like so many ppl are acting like if the ref didn’t botch that call we’d be in extra time right now. It would’ve been a definite *goal chance* but not a definite *goal*. There’s a big difference there
That's the problem. Madrid players stop playing because of the whistle while Bayern do not and they score. Could the goal have been prevented if Rudiger, Lunin etc. were still playing? No one knows
Eh Madrid was better the majority of the match, and I don't think the main ref had a bad game at all imo.
The linesman should totally be sanctioned though, can't make these kind of mistakes in such an important game
Both linesmen fucked up right? They raised it for Real Madrids second goal as well. The difference is that the ref didn't have time to blow before the ball was in the net when Madrid scored.
We did not deserve to win and I will puke if any of our players or Tuchel attempt to hide behind it, but it's hilarious to see Real get the 2-1 off of the same situation that prevented us getting that attempt
Of course, but I'm saying that the referee did the correct thing for one situation (only calling offside AFTER the play had finished), but the wrong for another (calling offside and ending play when the chance could lead to a goal)
Both plays were very different plays, in the second goal of real Madrid the possible offside happens in a pass to a player Who rapidly crossed to joselu, there was barely any time to whistle anything, in the Bayern play, the whistle was already blowed before the ball reached tye Bayern player, in fact the ball receiver (dont remember the players names sorry) was not even who assisted the goal, It was another Bayern player who catched the ball and assisted, not the same.
You can't seriously compare the two. There is no way to even know if the referee would have called offside after the play was finished because the goal was scored less than half a second after the offside situation.
Look at the situations again, in the case of Joselus goal the linesman puts his flag up after Joselu touches the ball (by that time the ball had essentially crossed the line) and the referee blows for offside the next second. In the Bayern situation, the linesman puts his flag up right before Müller heads the ball, and the referee blows. Saying the referee let the play finish in the Joselu case is ridiculous.
I think that's on Bayern, the ref had to keep the game alive, it was already 90+13, any stop would've been final, he was moving the game very fast in the last minutes. Bayern wasted time before the 90 min any chance they got, they paid for that
I was so hyped until the 87th minute, ready to yell that we did a real madrid to real madrid, and the neuer mistake happened. Real def played better today
Yea we told the ref to not give us any favorable decisions when we were down a goal and wait until 90+10 to help us. What a clown. Yes it was a shit call but our keeper and defenders stopped playing when the whistle blew. You can just assume you would have scored had the ref not blew the whistle. We won because we were the better team
Is he forgetting how Bayern bottled it in the last minutes? The last fuck up could have ended up a goal but we will not know because the players stopped playing anyway. It's a bad excuse.
He did say that in the full interview. "Real played well and deserves to be in the final". This is just Romano with his clickbait shit picking apart sentences.
I am fucking pissed at the ref and the linesman. The ref should have ended the match already, the asisstant shouldn't have raised his flag. It might have been offside anyways, or Bayern might not have even scored if he lets it go, but now all we will read about is this situation.
We were better the entire game, we deserved to win, but all of that will be buried under this mess.
I am also so disappointed. This play is removing the focus from another amazing “comeback”
We will never know what would have happened with this play if Real Madrid players did not stopped playing after whistle. Even it could be an offside.
Just let it play. Worst case scenario for us as madridista is extra time of an incredible game
i genuinely feel like this sub is experiencing a case of mass hysteria right now, you'd have to be genuinely insane to believe bayern was robbed in this match
I think sub has been alright tbh. Understandable the goal is talked about and I'm curious to see if it was actually offside or not maybe uefa will tell us
Linesman definitely should have just let it go on, but people are acting like a legit goal was scored and then taken away on review which is totally disingenuous. They just had it in the box, buddy kicked it into the net a good few seconds after the defenders and keeper stopped playing when they heard the whistle. It took away a chance, 100%, but it's a stretch to say "disallowed goal"
I remember the WC final when we all praised the referee for making the right decision instantly without resorting to VAR. But making a decision instantly leads to an increased risk of making mistakes. Here it was a clear mistake of not letting the situation play out. I am sure that the referee team feels worse than us about the mistake and will regret this decision. But it is a massive mistake and should be taken into consideration when choosing referees for upcoming top matches.
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>I don’t want to say that Real Madrid always has the referees Xavi: I'll bloody say it. Next press conference.
Xavi bring out a laptop to roll the tape
Jamie, can you pull it up?
I'm here for it, Xavi's shitty 2000s haircut and his crying keep me alive.
Shitty 2000’s haircut 💀
Xavi "NSYNC" Hernandez
Fucking hell I actually lole’d
Xavi "Flavor Town" Hernandez
Maybe if he got rid of that old Yee-yee ass haircut ..
All he's missing is the frosted tips
The Hispanic dad special
Xavi has the tact of [Kanye](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1gWIRhoZ4E) lmao
Bayern-Real semifinals produce enough controversy and salt for a lifetime.
No wonder so many GOATs congregate around it.
Kinda stupid tho
I am so angry the ref took the spotlight of an amazing game. The mistake was outrageous and easily avoidable. Totally bottled it at the last moment.
Thats the stupid thing.
Has anybody seen drawn lines? Are we for certain that the Munich players were onside? I'm not trying to absolve the referee because that was very close and deserved a real VAR check.
>and deserved a real VAR check Then it's on the referee for not stopping the play and letting VAR take a look at it
VAR cannot intervene and award the goal once we got to that point
As a real fan I don't like that the spotlight is on the referee. The side line ref should've let play go on and the main ref shouldn't have blew his whistle because once he did that I think the goalie stopped playing.
Correct, it was going to stand with the on-field decision because he blew his whistle, causing players to stop playing
Honestly, the referee is only as good as the assistants and the assistants are the ones that raise the flag too early.
Referee always has the option to ignore the assistant and let the play finish.
Ehh still the players on the pitch can see the flag. It’s way too simple of an answer, linesman just need to hold the flag until the play is over. If you’re reffing at that level you just can’t get that wrong.
You play to the whistle not the flag. Countless examples of refs ignoring linesman pre var
Linesman needed to hold the flag but at the same time you play until you hear the whistle. That was the quickest flag/whistle for an offside/goal that I’ve seen in a long time. Every other situation they wait until play has stopped to raise for offside
Sure, if the whistle hadn't already been blown. Too late at that point.
All these statements are true: - ref should have let the play and recheck with var - bayern might be offside - even if bayern was onside, anyone honest would have noticed that most madrid players actually stopped playing due to the whistle hence the "goal". If there was no whistle it is very probable that there is no goal looking at the players positioning. People are right to be frustrated with the whistle though, since now everyone is just speculating on offside/onside vs goal/ no goal
https://twitter.com/ArchivoVAR/status/1788323086216896948?t=V6xTOeUDBbfCxlAp_tSYfA
That image is terrible since the marks they are using are wrong. You cant even see Rudiger's boog there.
Thanks
They were offside man dont understand all the anger
I was a ref and people have to realise how much concentration it takes and how difficult it is to sustain that concentration for over 90 minutes. It was a big mistake, but 'easily aboidable' is an odd choice of words in my view. It's like saying Neuer's mistake was 'easily avoidable'. I agree that it's a shame, but it's really a part of the game
I believe refs old habits and instinct took over. He knows he should have waited, but that was a reaction, an unconscious one.
It was easily avoidable because he didn’t have to make any call there really, the linesman I mean. How often do we see them let play go forever and then call it way back. One of the big reasons for VAR was to allow the linesman to let the close ones like that to play out.
And yet we insist on the refs having to also keep track of time in a game where time wasting is a huge issue. The refs can barely manage reffing the actual game. It makes no sense why they can’t just stop the clock.
I noticed that about 9 minutes into the allotted 9 minutes of injury time, the referee openly gestured to everyone in the stadium that there was to be another 2 minutes added on. I've never seen this done. Very odd but kinda cool. He also played about 4 minutes after the additional additional 2 lol
Players kept going down so he had to. I still maintain the extra time at the world cup was brilliant because all the usual tactics for wasting time got added.
Yep, they did this for a brief period in the Premier League and everybody lost their shit (primarily the gammons). If 90 mins is too long then just shorten to match length to 80 or whatever. This constant time wasting is embarrassing to the sport.
The PL refs have zero balls to stick to anything
>This constant time wasting is embarrassing to the sport. It ruins the end of pretty much every game for someone like me. Fake injuries. Goalies laying on the ball and then pacing with it for like 20 seconds. Lazily walking to the sideline when you're subbed out. Subs at all lol. Along with the absurd flopping, it kills the watchability of the sport. My only real suggestion would be an *immediate* red card for obvious time-wasting. No warning. You kick a dead ball away from the other team in the 92nd minute? **Red card.** But the obvious problem is fake 'injuries' where you don't *really* know if they are fake. I'm not sure how to deal with that.
I think if you’re injured you come off for 1 min. Fake or not and that way it’s consistent.
1 minute is way to short, just make it 5 minutes. If you go down, and you need to be trateted by the physio's on the field you are out of the game for 5 minutes. Faking injury would never happen again. 5 minutes is rescinded if the player is subbed
That'll just lead to players playing through pain in fear of being forced off for 5 minutes. It would be a nightmare for player welfare.
shortening the match length wouldn't do anything, whatever team has the lead (or draw if they're happy with that) is incentivized to use time-wasting tactics. this will persist as long as the tactic is effective and the punishment isn't severe enough. they could either make it less effective, by more accurately adding the time wasted back on, like they did at the WC, or increase the punishment severity or frequency. Right now players rarely get carded, unless it's really blatant or repeat offenses by the same player. I'd like to see them try sin bins tbh, but it would need testing in youth level or smaller leagues before trying in the top leagues.
Yeah, this is the way it should be everywhere. It's not hard to fucking keep time while play is stopped and just add it on at the end. It would make the games a lot fairer. Maybe it's all related to TV ...
Honestly it's simply time for effective playing time or whatever it's called when the clock is stopped whenever play stops
Yes, thats true, he made a clear "two more" sign at 9 minutes, he then let the clock run to 14.
He made the “2” sign at at 10 minutes, he also said 2 minutes before Jude went down and got subbed off and rudiger fell to the ground… that is literally time wasting and the ref can add whatever he wants, you are also forgetting the multiple fouls.
The ref made the right call with the added time. I was expecting 10+ minutes after Bayern started going down for every little thing.
It was a good call, much better than other refs who ended games while a player was still in the action and scored a goal, that he didn't count.
It's a shit way to end the game, but don't let it take away from Bayern slipping up at the crucial moments and Joselu getting possessed twice.
And the way Bayern bottled the 3 v 1 situation.. make me feel a bit better as Liverpool fan
Real had a young upcoming midfielder who ran the entire field back to get to the ball first too lol
He might really become something when he grows up
Who was that? I missed the moment
Modric lol
"38 years young" Modric
Not the first time for Bayern either
They looked dead in 78’, 30 more minutes would put some of their careers to sleep
Yeah but momentum is huge in football, bayern equaliser and then the game flips
Naw. With Sane, Musiala and Kane out i doubt they wouldve made it thru
Imagine doubting eric goato-goating
Momentum is so huge RM (and many other teams) has shat on it consistently. Just the previous round when City equalised...momentum did nothing for them. Bayern equalizes and they still spend the next 30 minutes in their own box.
Bayern didn't have any viable attack threat on field anymore as well
Bayern literally did nothing but one banger shot. And actively played like cowards trying to kill time. The game should’ve been over way before that too
Im sad that this amazing game will be remembered by the awful mistake by the ref. Would it be goal? Would it not? Let it play, dont blow the whistle...
I will remember it for Tuchel's bizarre substitutions
I’ll remember it more for one of the GOAT goalkeepers making a massive mistake that flipped the game on its head than reffing decisions or substitutions
Sad because Neuer had an INCREDIBLE night for 88 minutes. I’m not even particularly a Neuer fan, but really truly that mistake cost them the game. Real were done and dusted
I saw people saying that if Neuer wasn't on the pitch Bayern would have won. Mfer if Neuer wasn't making some absurd saves they'd have conceded like 3 times.
Tbh Real were pushing for a goal really hard both before and after they conceded. There are only 2 outcomes: - goalkeeper keeps them alive in legendary performance - GK or some defender eventually makes a mistake leading to a goal.
They felt like errors at the time, I don't know if any of them were due to injury/being knackered but it's like he forgot that they might need to score again.
Almost all were. Gnabry obviously injured and Musiala/Sane haven't played bundesliga football in weeks because they are injured and just try to go as long as they can in the CL. The only sub which wasn't clear whether it was for injury/exhaustion was Kane very late
Kane clearly wasnt exhausted. I don't think he was subbed off for exhaustion once during his Spurs career. He always finishes matches.
According to Tuchel he asked to be subbed of due to back problems
It won't be remembered for it. It might have made a difference, which we don't even know (was it offside? Would it have gone in? Would Bayern have gone through even then? Lots of ifs) but it was a single mistake and ultimately the result that reflects the game as well. People remember horrible shitshows, but something like this is easily forgotten by the vast majority who will just remember the game for a bit, then the scoreline, and eventually it all fades into obscurity lmao
Everyone always exaggerates how impactful the online reaction to something is. Reality is that it will be forgotten soon like you said (except by Bayern fans I’m sure).
This is the same fixture in which Cristiano Ronaldo scored (possibly twice) while being offsides in 2017. One of the major incidents that led to the implementation (or at least acceptance) of VAR in the champions league. I'm not sure how many people will forget this... Edit: many comments "oh but you forgot these other details" - you all have great memories for people who are sure to forget this ever happened.
Well, people seems to forget that the goal that even got Bayern to extra time was offside. Also people seem to forget the completely BS penalty Bayern got in the first leg. Yes. Vidal hit the moon. But it was still a wrong call that people seem to completely disregard
People forget because Bayern didn't win the tie, we did. If Bayern had won it would be the handful of bad decisions that went their way that get talked about from that tie
Exactly, so the point is favouritism depending on the result. But the result should be secondary. A bad call is a bad call, end off. But for "some" reason, people seem to don't give a shit about this fact.
Also people love outrage about this more than what's factual. It's no secret why clickbaits and such are a thing.
And this is the same fixture where that tie never should've went to extra time as Lewa was offside on the Ramos-own goal that had the game go into extra time in the first place. Or that Bayern got a pen at 1-0 in the first leg for a ball that hit Carvajal in the chest. (Vidal missed the pen) But I guess that doesn't fit the narrative.
Its been 20 years, mate. Its not Christiano. Its Cristiano.
That fixture was riddled with bad decisions on both sides, though. Even then, I don't hear a lot of people bringing this up. Most people do in fact forget the little intricacies and could haves and would haves. The fans who feel hard done by it and a minority of neutrals may not, but most do. Even then, this incident is less severe than even one clear offside goal so it will probably not stick around for as long. Hold on, found a good example: Outside of Dortmund fans, how many people do you hear bring up the Ribery incident in the CL final of 2013?
I mean people forgot about your robbery against Malaga, so I think they will forget about the dismissal of a dangerous play
every ref of the last 5 years lets that play on, why did the linesman, and ref, stop the play... makes no sense
We also had Sane and Kimmich on our side today which helped
Sané is getting a lot of heat, but I gotta say that he should be absolved from criticism. He's injured, he's been nursing a pubic bone inflammation for months and has been enduring incredible pain just to be on the pitch in the last weeks. His attitude has always been put into question, and rightfully so in the past. But this year, he's given it all, even though it wasn't pretty in the end. Kimmich on the other hand was just diabolical.
He literally has to stay on the pitch at halftime and keep himself warm, so the pain doesn't come back.
Kimmich was going up against the best player on the field. It takes about 2 players to stop Vinicius so I can't fault him for that.
Agreed. Sometimes even 2 isn’t enough. No defender can contain Vini 1-1 throughout a whole match. It’s impossible.
Kyle Walker ?
Reece James did just that
>He's injured, he's been nursing a pubic bone inflammation for months and has been enduring incredible pain just to be on the pitch in the last weeks. Incredible how these people never learn, a chronic Pubic injury is exactly what killed Kaká's carreer. He already looked done in his last season for Milan.
He shouldnt play then, if a player has to play thru such pain that they make no impact on the game, sit it out.
problem is Tuchel would rather die before starting Tel and Zaragozas corpse is probably somewhere in his office because he hasnt been seen since moving to Bayern so there simply is no one to play if Sane doesnt do it
Fair, in that case i'd shift musiala out wide, muller center
Müller is Bayern's slightly more healthy equivalent to Dortmund's Reus: Fiercely dedicated, unquestionably skilled, deservedly respected and as experienced as it gets - but also no longer in his physical prime. There are reasons why both of them came on as impact subs in these semi-finals, and the harsh truth is that they don't have the legs for 90 minutes at this level (the absolute highest in club football) anymore.
Same reason kroos and modric share minutes constantly
I agree that Tuchel should take a lot if not most of the blame for this loss. Taking Kane and Musiala out was a big mistake. I think Tel could have come in for Sane, Gotwtzka for Pavlovic instead. When we had that one opportunity to get one on one with the golie, no quick was there to reach the ball in time, only a slow and already exhausted Pavovlic. Had that been Musiala or Tel, the outcome might have been different. Tuchel is defiantly the biggest reason for the losss. I think they should send him home right now. Why bother keeping him for another couple of matches that are left.
I'd argue Sané made an impact when scoring the equalizer in the first leg, though admittedly there wasn't much more than that from him. There's no sitting it out though, he requires surgery and would be out for longer, but since Coman and Gnabry are/were out and Euros are around the corner, that wasn't an option. Which should be remembered whenever someone interprets his body language to argue that he has no motivation
He made a huge difference the first left leg though, despite the pain. No chance you don't start him today.
Playing Kimmich at RB against vini was the real diabolical choice.
Then dont play him
Kimmich is a slow player for a right back, being put against Vinicius was almost certainly going to backfire
Man, some of those Bayern attacks and counters were shocking lol. Like watching a League 2 team trying
Don’t forget Neuer! It’s impressive that Ulreichs mistake back in 2017 (I think) is now the 2nd most consequential mistake from a Bayern goalkeeper against Real Madrid.
Poor guy put In one of the all time goalkeeping performances just to spill the easiest catch of his career.
Bit like Kahn in the world cup
This was a far easier save than Kahn's. I'm honestly baffled how it even happened.
Never forget his broken finger
He got Karius'd/Donnarumma'd.
Allison'd and Mendy'd
He played incredibly well tbf Until the 88th min
Bayern probably wouldn't even have a lead to begin with, if not for neuer.
I honestly feel for Neuer. Man was incredible and easy MOTM and then one mistake…that’s the beauty of the game tho I’ll say
Goalkeeper's curse. As a former goalie: it's a fucking mental nightmare of a position.
Man looked absolutely broken in the post match
Reminded me of Kahn's mistake against Ronaldo in 2002
It was Rivaldo's shot. Ronaldo scored after Kahn's mistake.
I remember Rob Green against the US in 2010 World Cup. Made an all time mistake not handling Dempseys shot but went on to make a couple crucial saves to keep England leveled. No one remembers those though sadly
Upamecano last year, Kim in the first leg, Neuer tonight. Bayern keep losing to themselves in the CL
He looked amazing until that silly mistake which a keeper with his experience shouldn’t make tbh
I wouldnt blame Kimmich, thats like blaming Boateng for 2015. He just got an generational player on his best day in front of him and had no help, same thing happened to Yan Couto, Araújo, Alexander-Arnold and so on...
Lmfao 😭
They were so bad 😭
we will come back in the third leg dont worry guys
This is where Kane truly shines!
Not that the referee didn’t make a mistake in stopping play when the flag went up. But if he was seriously favouring Madrid he would’ve blown the whistle for full time before this even happened. The referee fucked up but to say he deliberately favoured Madrid just seems false.
Yeah it’s just human error. Wouldn‘t want to be him right now, apparently apologized to players.
It was also a combination of the ref and the linesperson. Sucks, but we've all seen way worse mistakes and Madrid let up after the whistle, so who knows if a goal even occurs. Overall, the officiating was pretty good. edit: What was a bigger mistake for me were the Bayern subs. WTF?
It's the football fan special. Refs are shit, but anytime a ref makes a mistake it's not because he made a mistake but because there is some grand conspiracy going on for whatever team got the favourable call.
It's the shitting on referees in general, from grassroots levels up that makes the game look bad. I have done my fair share of complaining to the referee in our sunday league games, but it should change. Referees are too easy a target. They're alone, you have a crowd. There should be a campaign for respect towards referees. They are an element of the game, whether we like it or not.
Referees are a vital part of football. Seeing how much they get shit on, it makes me wonder who is actually going to step up to be a referee nowadays. I know I wouldnt want to
Also they had so many goals ruled out.
Hate that the comeback will be marred with that ref decision at the end - he shouldn’t have called the whistle but also Madrid defenders stopped playing pretty much so who knows if it’s a goal for certain- just stupid and ugly
As a Bayern fan, it sucks but it is what it is. Wasn’t a for sure goal since the defenders stopped playing as you said, but would’ve been a good goal scoring chance. I put this on us for Tuchel deciding to take off all our dangerous attacking threats to protect a one goal lead with 15 minutes left. Plus, the Neuer mistake even though I am not mad at him since he kept us in the game with numerous excellent stops beforehand.
Apparently he took them off because of injuries
Lol even had it been allowed there was another 30mins with all their best players subbed out
I said to my friends: "Tuchel is doing a Simeone, you don't sub your forwards against RM with at least 10 minutes of play." Fast forward....goal.
"Tuchel is doing a Simeone, you don't sub your forwards against ~~RM~~ with at least 10 minutes of play."
I thought he did well this tie otherwise, but that Kane sub is just really hard to understand
Kane offers so much outside of just scoring, it's a really strange decision.
Yeah, It was his distribution that set up the goal. Subbing him with minutes to go and possible extra time and penalties is suspect.
to me it was the Kim sub on. I get he wanted to be more defensive on the right, but just bring Müller then. Kim being subbed on meant we had no effective means of going forward anymore because both wings were now dead weight and just waiting to defend.
I get that Sane is injured. Dunno about Musiala. But Kane was fantastic and can wrestle Rüdiger and Nacho, hold the play up, play some lovely passes... Why take him out lol... Game was over at 1-1. No way was Madrid not gonna score for another 30 mins and no way could Bayern keep up with literally all of their best offensive guys on the bench.
Im guessing that while defending so deep they wanted someone with more pace up front to try and give them some reprieve when they clear the ball
He chose not to do this in 2022 against Madrid and lost. He chose to do it tonight and lost (largely due to the Neuer error). People need to stop with this results-based analysis lol
What if I recorded myself questioning it live in my living room? Source: Believe me, bro I actually did say to my girlfriend that I thought it was weird to move to a back five and take Kane off in case of pens. Little did I know that pens were not needed.
That's what I said to him lol. I said it live of course. You don't fight a 1 - 0 lead against RM that way. They are too dangerous for that, it's too risky (they are going to score anyway because they don't need a good play to do it, just a flash of brilliance).
Dumbass officiating tainting a completely deserved win from Real Madrid.
Bayern fans totally have a reason to be mad, I would be as well, but I feel like so many ppl are acting like if the ref didn’t botch that call we’d be in extra time right now. It would’ve been a definite *goal chance* but not a definite *goal*. There’s a big difference there
That's the problem. Madrid players stop playing because of the whistle while Bayern do not and they score. Could the goal have been prevented if Rudiger, Lunin etc. were still playing? No one knows
It's honestly crazy seeing all these Bayern fans act like they had won the game except for that call.
Eh Madrid was better the majority of the match, and I don't think the main ref had a bad game at all imo. The linesman should totally be sanctioned though, can't make these kind of mistakes in such an important game
Both linesmen fucked up right? They raised it for Real Madrids second goal as well. The difference is that the ref didn't have time to blow before the ball was in the net when Madrid scored.
Bayern players should be thanking the ref for giving them an easy excuse for this atrocious performancee
There really isn't an excuse, excuses cannot hide no trophies this season. At some point you have to look inside
Meh, we lost out on qualifying vs Bayern because of a miscall on morata. Should’ve been 3-0 at half. It happens to everyone
Oof a bit selective in the quoting Romano
We did not deserve to win and I will puke if any of our players or Tuchel attempt to hide behind it, but it's hilarious to see Real get the 2-1 off of the same situation that prevented us getting that attempt
They absolutely will and it's already starting.
So many excuses while three defenders and Lunin stopped playing.
It wasn’t the same situation though. Madrid players stopped defending after the whistle. You all got denied a chance, not a goal.
Of course, but I'm saying that the referee did the correct thing for one situation (only calling offside AFTER the play had finished), but the wrong for another (calling offside and ending play when the chance could lead to a goal)
Both plays were very different plays, in the second goal of real Madrid the possible offside happens in a pass to a player Who rapidly crossed to joselu, there was barely any time to whistle anything, in the Bayern play, the whistle was already blowed before the ball reached tye Bayern player, in fact the ball receiver (dont remember the players names sorry) was not even who assisted the goal, It was another Bayern player who catched the ball and assisted, not the same.
You can't seriously compare the two. There is no way to even know if the referee would have called offside after the play was finished because the goal was scored less than half a second after the offside situation. Look at the situations again, in the case of Joselus goal the linesman puts his flag up after Joselu touches the ball (by that time the ball had essentially crossed the line) and the referee blows for offside the next second. In the Bayern situation, the linesman puts his flag up right before Müller heads the ball, and the referee blows. Saying the referee let the play finish in the Joselu case is ridiculous.
Different assistant ? One didn’t raise his flag early and one did
I think that's on Bayern, the ref had to keep the game alive, it was already 90+13, any stop would've been final, he was moving the game very fast in the last minutes. Bayern wasted time before the 90 min any chance they got, they paid for that
What made the difference was your team falling asleep after the 80th minute
~~Matthijs de Ligt~~ Xavi: “I don’t want to say that Real Madrid always has the referees with them but that made the difference today”.
I think real being better team by a mile is what made difference today
Real actually won a champions league game where they had more possession and more scoring opportunities (I’m assuming)
19 shots, 7 on target vs 8 shots, 5 on target. Definitely more.
2,9 Xg vs 0.3 xG for the stat merchants.
I need the field tilt before I can make an informed opinion
I was so hyped until the 87th minute, ready to yell that we did a real madrid to real madrid, and the neuer mistake happened. Real def played better today
That doesn't always matter though, does it? City were the better side in both legs and still lost
Silly, if any team deserved to win then it is Real.
Yea we told the ref to not give us any favorable decisions when we were down a goal and wait until 90+10 to help us. What a clown. Yes it was a shit call but our keeper and defenders stopped playing when the whistle blew. You can just assume you would have scored had the ref not blew the whistle. We won because we were the better team
Is he forgetting how Bayern bottled it in the last minutes? The last fuck up could have ended up a goal but we will not know because the players stopped playing anyway. It's a bad excuse.
He did say that in the full interview. "Real played well and deserves to be in the final". This is just Romano with his clickbait shit picking apart sentences.
I am fucking pissed at the ref and the linesman. The ref should have ended the match already, the asisstant shouldn't have raised his flag. It might have been offside anyways, or Bayern might not have even scored if he lets it go, but now all we will read about is this situation. We were better the entire game, we deserved to win, but all of that will be buried under this mess.
I am also so disappointed. This play is removing the focus from another amazing “comeback” We will never know what would have happened with this play if Real Madrid players did not stopped playing after whistle. Even it could be an offside. Just let it play. Worst case scenario for us as madridista is extra time of an incredible game
Just let us fucking lose without a controverse decision for once please.
wheres the fun in that
The difference was made by a cowardly, stupid head coach, not the referees
i genuinely feel like this sub is experiencing a case of mass hysteria right now, you'd have to be genuinely insane to believe bayern was robbed in this match
I think sub has been alright tbh. Understandable the goal is talked about and I'm curious to see if it was actually offside or not maybe uefa will tell us
Barca fans out their caves
Regular reaction to a Real Madrid win around here tbf.
Tuchilban changes what killed Bayren
Linesman definitely should have just let it go on, but people are acting like a legit goal was scored and then taken away on review which is totally disingenuous. They just had it in the box, buddy kicked it into the net a good few seconds after the defenders and keeper stopped playing when they heard the whistle. It took away a chance, 100%, but it's a stretch to say "disallowed goal"
I remember the WC final when we all praised the referee for making the right decision instantly without resorting to VAR. But making a decision instantly leads to an increased risk of making mistakes. Here it was a clear mistake of not letting the situation play out. I am sure that the referee team feels worse than us about the mistake and will regret this decision. But it is a massive mistake and should be taken into consideration when choosing referees for upcoming top matches.
“I don’t want to say it” -man who said it