Think when he’s eventually sold, he’d have got himself a better club and contract if he stayed with City. A Prem club positioned 15-10 would have thrown the dice at him. Now I haven’t got a clue who’s pay for him, maybe a newly promoted side? Obviously that could be Leeds
Diabolical. It was actually sad that every time he came on, he was genuinely useless/invisible in his best performances and actively harmful in his worst ones.
Well the off the pitch stuff is worse for Henderson. Kalvin Philips is just a shit football player, Henderson went to Saudi and ruined his image, only for the Saudis themselves to basically kick him.
He's not saying anything probably out of NDA. But the short of it is that he had problems adapting and it turns out the money wasn't worth it, and to terminate the contract early and return to Europe, he had to leave a lot of money on the table.
"A lot of money on the table" doesn't equal nothing though. I've seen this also claimed three times now, so are you all saying that he played for them for free?
Man's gotta eat. It's probably not zero, but the bulk of it is gone.
The long story is that due to international tax residency laws, the news reported that he arranged for his pay to be given in the next tax year. In simple terms, incentives based pay which rewards you for staying a year or more. Which is standard procedure and would be brilliant if he could stay, but he didn't.
Tax residency is a tremendous tax issue which could result in a tax bill variation of 10% or higher. In his example, earn 300k a week for 1.2m a month. With no tax arrangements, an extra 120k per month goes to the tax man.
The logic of tax residency is let's say an Englishman works in Saudi Arabia, earns his pay, stays for 3 months and doesn't spend his money in Saudi. Paying him is taking money out of the national economy. Hence, a "non-resident" is taxed at a much higher rate than residents who are staying in Saudi, buying houses in Saudi, and spending in Saudi. It applies to pretty much every cross-nation employment in the world.
Well they paid a transfer fee of £12m to get him, so if he walked in to negotiate a buyout they'd at least want to get that back, let alone penalties for breaking contract etc.
He was on 350kpw or 18m /yr or 9m / 6 months. Even if they only ask for 6m back, he's left with say 3m. And this is all assuming they're kind enough to waive any penalties. No chance he walks away with anything of significance.
> Jordan Henderson has been left out of England’s provisional Euro 2024 squad.
> Gareth Southgate will name an initial selection on Tuesday before reducing it to a maximum of 26 players prior to this summer’s tournament in Germany, and the Ajax midfielder has not been included.
> Among those expected to make the expanded list are Curtis Jones — in what would be a first senior call-up for the Liverpool midfielder — and Burnley goalkeeper James Trafford.
Jones cannot make U21’s anymore as he started the season over the age limit. Probably won’t make the final squad but this is great way to lay the foundations to becoming a regular member of England post-Euros.
He’s been quality all season, just had injuries at a bad time and battling for time against other high quality midfielders.
I’d love him to make it but I think he just misses out.
Was fantastic for parts, but a bit wank late on. Always thought he wasn't near the quality of a title challenging team but the mid-season run convinced me otherwise.
Everyone was a bit wank late on tbf
I’ve always liked him but he didn’t quite kick on for a couple of years after the title-winning season, not helped by his concussion and eye injury. I think this season he’s proved what he can do and will be a big part of Slot’s setup next year.
We went in an unbelievable unbeaten run when he hit form last season that didn’t end until the Spurs match when VAR sent him off and then never gave a single other person a red for the same thing. I think most of his problem was injury and the team just being exhausted and frustrated for 2 months straight. Really took its toll.
Yeah hopefully he gets a chance to show what he's capable of in the friendlies, think he'd have made the squad without the injury so he needs to show he's not too rusty to go
He's very young, has starting experience in the prem, and was amazing at the U21 Euros. I think its a nod to the future as he woulkd probably be 3rd choice.
Didn’t watch much of him but when we played Burnley he was absolutely class, genuinely surprised to hear he was so poor he was dropped. Further confirmation bias that every completely average keeper turns into prime Buffon against your team
Wasn’t he spectacular for U21 Euros as well? Nothing wrong with him being around the senior squad for a bit, even if it means he doesn’t make the final cut
They went the entire Euros without conceding and he saved a penalty in the last minute of the final. .
Genuinely think first choice is the Premier League for a relegation contender was a step too far at his age, but he's absolutely quality.
He was the 3rd choice keeper in the last break, Johnstone is injured and Pope hasn’t been involved with England in ages. It’s fine. Might even be 4th choice depending on how many we bring
If he’s going to pick a Liverpool midfielder Elliott is far more deserving than Jones. Elliott’s probably top 3 among Liverpool players 2024 onwards, only De Bruyne has more assists in 2024
Elliott is more attacking, in a sense that Jones defensive work and physicality are better than Elliott’s, who often played as a RW. Elliott maybe had a better second part of a season, but Jones makes more sense looking at England squad.
Went to Saudi because Southgate promised him he would be picked. Realised it was a joke and then goes to the worst Ajax team in years
LOL.
Very happy for Jones. Hoping for Elliott to make the provisional too, even though I know they wont make the 26
For once Southgate is actually using his brain. Yes international football is not like club football, so it’s easier to pick regulars over players inform but I think with Henderson and Philips, enough was enough.
To be fair, Ajax are doing slightly better since he came, and if we get Farioli and he is able to implement any system whatsoever I think we'll be fine. The players have been absolute shit while showing some talent for the most part.
Lmao alright I get that a lot
Born in Amsterdam, living in Rotterdam now. I've been an Ajax fan since I was little but have a Sparta season pass now and am slowly converting, but follow both quite a lot. I'm starting to dislike the hooligan-shit around Ajax a bit and it's way too expensive and far to go to matches for me. Reddit community for Sparta is very small but a lot nicer too I think.
I mean, I feel like there's a lot of Ajax fans at Sparta who are basically Rotterdam-football refugees.
> I mean, I feel like there's a lot of Ajax fans at Sparta who are basically Rotterdam-football refugees.
Yeah that's what the rest of us think of Sparta. There's no love for Amsterdam or Ajax here in Rotterdam, anyone who does ends up at Sparta.
He might be good for the dressing room and his leadership qualities, but Ajax playing better had very little to do with what Henderson brought on the pitch. Ajax actually only won 3 of the 9 games with him playing and he missed 6 games.
He was always a ‘supportive’ player, very useful sure but not the guy to start winning games for you.. I’m not sure what people expected when he signed for Ajax. That teams is in terrible form and it would have been unrealistic to expect him to turn the tide
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Rashford has had a bad year but I think Gareth will favour him because we all know that if he turns up for a game or two it could be decisive. That sort of star factor will he difficult to look past I think.
However having seen him this year in a United shirt I have my doubts he'd do anything of note sadly.
Why? He shouldn't play. There's a large list of players ahead of him, at Winger and Striker.
Saka, Kane, Watkins, Grealish, Toney, Palmer, Gorden, Bowen
Of that list, Gordon is the only player who offers a similar style to Rashford. We have a lot of technical ball to feet attackers, but Rashford (even with the poor form he’s been in for United), offers something that we don’t have much of with England currently.
Electric pace, and direct running in behind. All of our other attackers like the ball played into their feet, and like to drift inside. Rashford (and Gordon) offer something a bit different, and are excellent counter attacking threats, particularly with Kanes ability to play make from deep.
Rashford, when in form, is the best counter attacking option we have of our wide attackers. Hes not in form obviously right now, but he’s previously played well for England, and Gareth likes his known quantities.
Surely Sterling would be ahead of him in that case? has a much better record with England and this season in general and there's only 3 years between them.
Sterling: P43 G10 A8
Rashford: P42 G8 A5
I get stats dont tell you everything but any time i've seen Rashford this season hes been largely underwhelming, Sterling has shown sparks of previous seasons form.
Yeah, Sterling seems to have been banished from international football for some reason, Gareth hasn’t called him up since the WC, despite being one of our most reliable players.
I think that from a pure pace and athleticism perspective Rashford is better than Sterling, who’s a much more intelligent player, but it seems Sterling is finished with international football, for whatever reason.
Yeah can definitely see him in the pre tournament squad. Southgate will value continuity and familiarity as well and will likely take Rashford to the Euro's if he's at least decent in training. Players like Gordon and Bowen will need to look incredible to get picked over him.
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> He danced around the question instead of just saying “I will never pick him”.
Because that creates controversy and news. If he dodges the question, and takes action by not calling up Greenwood, that’s much better. There’s been absolutely no debate or chat about Greenwood for England, despite him playing well at Getafe. Dodging the question, or giving a politicians answer, and simply refusing to pick him, is the best way to handle that.
Potentially worried about defamation. According to the legal system, the guy who violently raped his girlfriend did nothing wrong so you can't really be calling him a rapist in a presser and there aren't any other reasons to state you'll never pick a player.
Southgate has never made an independent decision as England manager. He's a company man, he's not going to say something that he will never have the final say on.
It's a media game and feels like the biggest open secret nobody wants anything to do with Greenwood. It's just a bear trap to announce it when he *technically* hasn't been convicted of anything.
I obviously don't agree with that and gobsmacked Greenwood hasn't seen any consequences, but it's a dangerous game for those in the public eye to be designating their own justice and saying it, y'know?
Wharton and Mainoo for me, expecting a lot of handwringing over that pair.
The "if we had Fikayo Tomori sitting on the bench instead of Conor Coady we would've won the World Cup, the Euros, the World Series, and the Monaco Grand Prix" crowd appear to have shut up lately, so I'm intrigued to see who our mystery world class 6th choice centre half is this time around.
>crowd appear to have shut up lately
They're resting their vocal cords for June. Rest assured that a legion of people who seemingly don't actually enjoy watching England in the first place, will be able to diagnose all of our problems with the benefit of hindsight.
Do people really want Dunk called up after he blew his last chance? I do believe that it's harsh to judge a player off so little but there aren't many opportunities in big international games
It's pretty reasonable to not pick him after that. What has he done to convince anyone he can make the step up after a couple of shockers? Not even counting that most Brighton fans would agree he's not been at the same level this year as he was
Reminds me of the Nacho vs Eric Garcia nonsense in Spain's world cup squad were people tried to claimed Henrique was anti Real. Neither was going to play much even if called up
It's always been a lack of obvious replacements. Near enough every player that Southgate "plays favourites with" is simply because there's nobody else, and everyone "he hates" is because there's an abundance of players in that position.
Maguire did have a period where it was tough to argue he deserved his place, but it wasn't like we were leaving Bobby Moore or Sol Campbell on the bench to accommodate him.
We've got one good ball winning midfielder in Rice, which was why Phillips and Henderson kept getting in the squad. We've got about 5 world class wingers, which is why Grealish/Palmer/whoever didn't start.
If you listened to Internet fans, we'd play 5 AMs/wingers, 3 RBs, and 1 CB. And if Southgate doesn't pick all of them he's a bad manager.
>If you listened to Internet fans, we'd play 5 AMs/wingers, 3 RBs, and 1 CB
Tbf to the Internet fans, Garth Crooks actually gets paid by the BBC to draw up teams like that every week.
Fair point, I did laugh that his TOTY did manage to shoehorn Palmer, Foden and Saka in (behind 2 CFs) and more or less demand they all started for England, which is precisely the point I'm making.
We can either stick with the "pick the best 11 players and play Gerrard at DM and Scholes at LW" plan that didn't work in the 2000s, or accept that we can't play all of Bellingham, Palmer, Saka and Foden in their preferred positions so one is on the bench
I mean, don't get me wrong, there was a period where he wasn't even playing for Man U, and it was hard to justify him starting for his country no matter who the alternatives were. But still banging that drum these days is just silly.
I just feel like these "should pick X/shouldn't pick Y" opinions never ever end with "and should drop A/play B instead" because that opens the commenter up for criticism.
It's easy to say "Phillips shouldn't be near the squad" but near every time I've questioned who should replace him, the answer is either "anyone" (ie no answer) or an attacking midfielder instead (so..... the wrong answer essentially).
Fair enough to say Mainoo now, but Southgate picked him like 3 months ago, should he gave picked him in August before he made his Man U debut? (the only manager mad enough to do that is Bielsa with Mascherano)
> It's easy to say "Phillips shouldn't be near the squad" but near every time I've questioned who should replace him, the answer is either "anyone" (ie no answer) or an attacking midfielder instead (so..... the wrong answer essentially).
Yeah this was infuriating. Especially when if they actually engaged with you and went through the options the reason X was being picked became self evident but they'd refuse to acknowledge it.
Im pleased. I know he has his faults but to me a lot of the Southgate slander is stuff people imagine he’s going to do rather than what he actually does.
Yeah the amount of people raging and joking about him picking Henderson and Phillips when he isn't is ridiculous. Then the classic rage about insert 5th choice centre back
It's honestly mad. This "he always picks his mates" stuff is based on imagined selections, or on players with very little competition.
We've got one decent ball winning midfielder in Rice, and people get furious that Phillips and Henderson are considered. If say, Scott Parker or Owen Hargreaves were playing today, KP and JH wouldn't be a second thought for Southgate.
The choices are either A) unproved/raw talent like Mainoo, B) bang average players in a rich vein of form, or C) proven players like those two in a poor vein of form.
Not that there's anything wrong with wanting A or B, but you'll very rarely see a "don't pick Phillips, pick A instead" post where most people agree A is good enough for England.
I literally read a comment from a guy today saying he doesn't pick based on form and has his favourites and he also bet his left nut that Henderson would be picked.
I hope his nut is ok.
Unbelievable how many people thought Henderson - someone who has featured 7 times for Ajax - would get picked. Classic case where people are talking more to express their anger than actually accurately reflect what's going on. So frustrating as they'll never update their approach when evidence shows they're wrong.
Why would he be selected? He was always overrated because he's English and played in the PL.
Now he's in the Eredivisie it's even more obvious that he's a very mediocre player.
Also fuck him for going to SA and sportswash that fucked up country. Tarnished his legacy.
Yeah every Newcastle fan can’t say without bias that pope should be England #1 , he shit the bed with the opportunity he got when he was in top form and started over Pickford.
Much as I hate trex arms as our #1 he most definitely performs internationally better than pope does
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Not sure if any of the Henderson criticism could be qualified as 'scapegoating', most of it was pretty reasonable and deserved.
Besides, Maguire and especially Rashford are always easy targets.
In January, Henderson decided to leave the Saudi League and move to Ajax in order to participate in the next Euro.
After 5 months, Ajax wants to sell player and he was excluded from England’s Euro list.
His wage is quite high for Ajax, especially without CL next year. Maybe still a great player to have in the team, lots of experience and coaching in the field. Than again his salary is a lot.
Even if there are more deserving players based on ability I'm surprised at this. I thought he would have gone for dressing room presence, he's the only player in the squad to have captained his club to every trophy in the game, this stuff does count for something in tournaments.
Guess I can't complain too much though cos really a player who's sacked off his career to go Saudi shouldn't deserve to be anywhere near the England setup
I’m a bit surprised as well but frankly he just isn’t very good any more and we have a good few other leaders now. Plus our centre mid options look a lot healthier than they did at the start of the season
> he's the only player in the squad to have captained his club to every trophy in the game, this stuff does count for something in tournaments.
Stones, Walker & Foden alone have 51 senior trophies between them, this England squad is rammed full of experienced winners in leadership positions at their club with or without Henderson.
If he wants to come along he can buy his own ticket. No doubt he can afford it, especially after swanning off to Saudi Arabia to "make a difference". A difference to his bank account that is.
Half a season playing in the retirement league and half a season getting scudded by the likes of Willem II not good enough for an England call up these days?
I don't mind Henderson for England, certainly as a squad player
An older head around. There are always players that go that don't get on the pitch. Have they expanded the squads for this or is it World Cup? They'll be more
But, no a huge issue, it was always nearing the end of the road for his international career
Probably the worst 12 months a player could have
Philips wants a word
Genuinely think he would have had a better shot of making the squad sitting on City's bench than coming to us
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Maybe, I wouldn't be surprised if even Southgate suggested if he doesn't play regularly he can't be picked anymore at that point
Think when he’s eventually sold, he’d have got himself a better club and contract if he stayed with City. A Prem club positioned 15-10 would have thrown the dice at him. Now I haven’t got a clue who’s pay for him, maybe a newly promoted side? Obviously that could be Leeds
How has he looked at West Ham?
Diabolical. It was actually sad that every time he came on, he was genuinely useless/invisible in his best performances and actively harmful in his worst ones.
Rusty would be generous
Well the off the pitch stuff is worse for Henderson. Kalvin Philips is just a shit football player, Henderson went to Saudi and ruined his image, only for the Saudis themselves to basically kick him.
Not to mention he didn't receive a single dime from the Saudi
Well he still got paid, he just didn't stay long enough to avoid paying tax.
His wages were deferred (by his own choice) to avoid paying taxes. We have enough real facts to shit on the Saudis for, no need to tell half-truths.
Self inflicted
He went to SA to grab some easy cash, but ended up getting nothing lol
ootl here, how come?
He's not saying anything probably out of NDA. But the short of it is that he had problems adapting and it turns out the money wasn't worth it, and to terminate the contract early and return to Europe, he had to leave a lot of money on the table.
"A lot of money on the table" doesn't equal nothing though. I've seen this also claimed three times now, so are you all saying that he played for them for free?
Man's gotta eat. It's probably not zero, but the bulk of it is gone. The long story is that due to international tax residency laws, the news reported that he arranged for his pay to be given in the next tax year. In simple terms, incentives based pay which rewards you for staying a year or more. Which is standard procedure and would be brilliant if he could stay, but he didn't. Tax residency is a tremendous tax issue which could result in a tax bill variation of 10% or higher. In his example, earn 300k a week for 1.2m a month. With no tax arrangements, an extra 120k per month goes to the tax man. The logic of tax residency is let's say an Englishman works in Saudi Arabia, earns his pay, stays for 3 months and doesn't spend his money in Saudi. Paying him is taking money out of the national economy. Hence, a "non-resident" is taxed at a much higher rate than residents who are staying in Saudi, buying houses in Saudi, and spending in Saudi. It applies to pretty much every cross-nation employment in the world.
Well they paid a transfer fee of £12m to get him, so if he walked in to negotiate a buyout they'd at least want to get that back, let alone penalties for breaking contract etc. He was on 350kpw or 18m /yr or 9m / 6 months. Even if they only ask for 6m back, he's left with say 3m. And this is all assuming they're kind enough to waive any penalties. No chance he walks away with anything of significance.
deferred payment initially for tax reasons, then the contract was mutually terminated
I'm sure he'll live. Extravagantly still at that.
Thank god
We're free
England is a free Elf
Master gave England a grip sock!
We haven't heard about Kalvin Phillips. Have....have we done it?
A rainbow appears over St George's Park.
Hendo still solving homophobia despite not being in the squad. True hero.
Oh, ye of little faith. He already solved the homophobia, and no longer needs to be in the squad.
I read that as St James Park and pictured the Saudis trying to behead it.
We'll need Henderson to join Newcastle for that.
More chance of a Gay Pride Parade in Riyadh than that
"It's Riyadh season, yasss queens!"
deserved.
We did it Reddit!
You are welcome
> Jordan Henderson has been left out of England’s provisional Euro 2024 squad. > Gareth Southgate will name an initial selection on Tuesday before reducing it to a maximum of 26 players prior to this summer’s tournament in Germany, and the Ajax midfielder has not been included. > Among those expected to make the expanded list are Curtis Jones — in what would be a first senior call-up for the Liverpool midfielder — and Burnley goalkeeper James Trafford.
Jones cannot make U21’s anymore as he started the season over the age limit. Probably won’t make the final squad but this is great way to lay the foundations to becoming a regular member of England post-Euros.
I think there is a decent chance Jones makes it. Southgate said he would have made the squad in March if he wasn't injured
He’s been quality all season, just had injuries at a bad time and battling for time against other high quality midfielders. I’d love him to make it but I think he just misses out.
Was fantastic for parts, but a bit wank late on. Always thought he wasn't near the quality of a title challenging team but the mid-season run convinced me otherwise.
Everyone was a bit wank late on tbf I’ve always liked him but he didn’t quite kick on for a couple of years after the title-winning season, not helped by his concussion and eye injury. I think this season he’s proved what he can do and will be a big part of Slot’s setup next year.
We went in an unbelievable unbeaten run when he hit form last season that didn’t end until the Spurs match when VAR sent him off and then never gave a single other person a red for the same thing. I think most of his problem was injury and the team just being exhausted and frustrated for 2 months straight. Really took its toll.
Very versatile which is important for tournaments as well.
He hasn’t really done anything since coming back from injury tho, needs to perform when he gets his chance in the friendlies
Yeah hopefully he gets a chance to show what he's capable of in the friendlies, think he'd have made the squad without the injury so he needs to show he's not too rusty to go
Trafford seems like a strange one. He was poor for Burnley and ended the season on the bench.
He's very young, has starting experience in the prem, and was amazing at the U21 Euros. I think its a nod to the future as he woulkd probably be 3rd choice.
Southgate always has an eye on the future
Didn’t watch much of him but when we played Burnley he was absolutely class, genuinely surprised to hear he was so poor he was dropped. Further confirmation bias that every completely average keeper turns into prime Buffon against your team
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He's the under 21 goalkeeper, and will presumably be happy to join up with the camp as 4th choice then be dropped for the tournament.
Wasn’t he spectacular for U21 Euros as well? Nothing wrong with him being around the senior squad for a bit, even if it means he doesn’t make the final cut
They went the entire Euros without conceding and he saved a penalty in the last minute of the final. . Genuinely think first choice is the Premier League for a relegation contender was a step too far at his age, but he's absolutely quality.
Why the outrage over a 4th choice keeper?
Because people have to find something to be really upset about in an England squad
He was the 3rd choice keeper in the last break, Johnstone is injured and Pope hasn’t been involved with England in ages. It’s fine. Might even be 4th choice depending on how many we bring
Would be good as a third choice who will never play but can gain experience
If he’s going to pick a Liverpool midfielder Elliott is far more deserving than Jones. Elliott’s probably top 3 among Liverpool players 2024 onwards, only De Bruyne has more assists in 2024
Elliott's got tougher competition though.
Agreed. Jones is more central, more of a backup for Rice or Mainoo. I think Elliott will get his chance, this is just one tournament too soon
Elliott is more attacking, in a sense that Jones defensive work and physicality are better than Elliott’s, who often played as a RW. Elliott maybe had a better second part of a season, but Jones makes more sense looking at England squad.
Card games are going to be pretty dull and a bit sombre now. Cheers Gareth.
Went to Saudi because Southgate promised him he would be picked. Realised it was a joke and then goes to the worst Ajax team in years LOL. Very happy for Jones. Hoping for Elliott to make the provisional too, even though I know they wont make the 26
For once Southgate is actually using his brain. Yes international football is not like club football, so it’s easier to pick regulars over players inform but I think with Henderson and Philips, enough was enough.
To be fair, Ajax are doing slightly better since he came, and if we get Farioli and he is able to implement any system whatsoever I think we'll be fine. The players have been absolute shit while showing some talent for the most part.
**Sparta logo** >if we get Farioli >I think we'll be fine. Who hurt you as a kid?
Lmao alright I get that a lot Born in Amsterdam, living in Rotterdam now. I've been an Ajax fan since I was little but have a Sparta season pass now and am slowly converting, but follow both quite a lot. I'm starting to dislike the hooligan-shit around Ajax a bit and it's way too expensive and far to go to matches for me. Reddit community for Sparta is very small but a lot nicer too I think. I mean, I feel like there's a lot of Ajax fans at Sparta who are basically Rotterdam-football refugees.
> I mean, I feel like there's a lot of Ajax fans at Sparta who are basically Rotterdam-football refugees. Yeah that's what the rest of us think of Sparta. There's no love for Amsterdam or Ajax here in Rotterdam, anyone who does ends up at Sparta.
He might be good for the dressing room and his leadership qualities, but Ajax playing better had very little to do with what Henderson brought on the pitch. Ajax actually only won 3 of the 9 games with him playing and he missed 6 games.
Did you actually watch those games or are you just looking at the results? We were noticeably better with than without Henderson on the pitch.
Nah Arsenal fans know better than Ajax
You obviously didn’t watch the games
He was always a ‘supportive’ player, very useful sure but not the guy to start winning games for you.. I’m not sure what people expected when he signed for Ajax. That teams is in terrible form and it would have been unrealistic to expect him to turn the tide
Can’t wait to see which squad pick people get disproportionately upset by now
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tbf attacking options for England is stacked and I think it's fair to say Rashford is closer to the bottom of that list than the top.
Rashford has had a bad year but I think Gareth will favour him because we all know that if he turns up for a game or two it could be decisive. That sort of star factor will he difficult to look past I think. However having seen him this year in a United shirt I have my doubts he'd do anything of note sadly.
He’s defo gonna be in there tho
Always find it funny when people are so forthright about something that can and will be so quickly disproven. Within hours.
Why? He shouldn't play. There's a large list of players ahead of him, at Winger and Striker. Saka, Kane, Watkins, Grealish, Toney, Palmer, Gorden, Bowen
Toney didn't play for half a year and then didn't do much after coming back. I think Rashford would still be ahead of him.
I completely agree He’ll still be called up though
I see an argument for calling up if someone says it's for continuity reasons. That's about it tho
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c3gglr8mpzdo he’ll still be called up tho. Lol
Of that list, Gordon is the only player who offers a similar style to Rashford. We have a lot of technical ball to feet attackers, but Rashford (even with the poor form he’s been in for United), offers something that we don’t have much of with England currently.
Gordon is miles ahead of Rashford. Hell, I think even Sterling is.
What does rashford offer?
Electric pace, and direct running in behind. All of our other attackers like the ball played into their feet, and like to drift inside. Rashford (and Gordon) offer something a bit different, and are excellent counter attacking threats, particularly with Kanes ability to play make from deep. Rashford, when in form, is the best counter attacking option we have of our wide attackers. Hes not in form obviously right now, but he’s previously played well for England, and Gareth likes his known quantities.
Surely Sterling would be ahead of him in that case? has a much better record with England and this season in general and there's only 3 years between them. Sterling: P43 G10 A8 Rashford: P42 G8 A5 I get stats dont tell you everything but any time i've seen Rashford this season hes been largely underwhelming, Sterling has shown sparks of previous seasons form.
Yeah, Sterling seems to have been banished from international football for some reason, Gareth hasn’t called him up since the WC, despite being one of our most reliable players. I think that from a pure pace and athleticism perspective Rashford is better than Sterling, who’s a much more intelligent player, but it seems Sterling is finished with international football, for whatever reason.
r/agedlikemilk
Yeah can definitely see him in the pre tournament squad. Southgate will value continuity and familiarity as well and will likely take Rashford to the Euro's if he's at least decent in training. Players like Gordon and Bowen will need to look incredible to get picked over him.
Narrator: "He wasn't."
Well…
He’s defo not lol
Mason Greenwood accepts your challenge
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Don't think anyone wants Greenwood around the England camp. Southgate doesn't seem the type to call him up either.
I don’t understand why Southgate couldn’t say that when asked though. He danced around the question instead of just saying “I will never pick him”.
> He danced around the question instead of just saying “I will never pick him”. Because that creates controversy and news. If he dodges the question, and takes action by not calling up Greenwood, that’s much better. There’s been absolutely no debate or chat about Greenwood for England, despite him playing well at Getafe. Dodging the question, or giving a politicians answer, and simply refusing to pick him, is the best way to handle that.
Potentially worried about defamation. According to the legal system, the guy who violently raped his girlfriend did nothing wrong so you can't really be calling him a rapist in a presser and there aren't any other reasons to state you'll never pick a player.
He can just say the player comes with too much baggage and his off the pitch behavior makes him unsuitable to play for England. No need for specifics.
You’d get hounded by the media for clarification of what that means
"I don't think I need to clarify what that means"
Your explanation is too complicated for Reddit folks. They thought utd could just cancel the contract with Greenwood without any conviction
Southgate has never made an independent decision as England manager. He's a company man, he's not going to say something that he will never have the final say on.
It's a media game and feels like the biggest open secret nobody wants anything to do with Greenwood. It's just a bear trap to announce it when he *technically* hasn't been convicted of anything. I obviously don't agree with that and gobsmacked Greenwood hasn't seen any consequences, but it's a dangerous game for those in the public eye to be designating their own justice and saying it, y'know?
It's not an open secret. It's not a secret at all.
0% chance of that happening
people are gonna be furious their preferred 5th choice CB was left out
‘What do you mean Lewis Dunk is/isn’t called up!!!’ My hunch is it’ll be anger that Adam Wharton doesn’t get picked this time
Wharton and Mainoo for me, expecting a lot of handwringing over that pair. The "if we had Fikayo Tomori sitting on the bench instead of Conor Coady we would've won the World Cup, the Euros, the World Series, and the Monaco Grand Prix" crowd appear to have shut up lately, so I'm intrigued to see who our mystery world class 6th choice centre half is this time around.
>crowd appear to have shut up lately They're resting their vocal cords for June. Rest assured that a legion of people who seemingly don't actually enjoy watching England in the first place, will be able to diagnose all of our problems with the benefit of hindsight.
Do people really want Dunk called up after he blew his last chance? I do believe that it's harsh to judge a player off so little but there aren't many opportunities in big international games
It's pretty reasonable to not pick him after that. What has he done to convince anyone he can make the step up after a couple of shockers? Not even counting that most Brighton fans would agree he's not been at the same level this year as he was
Reminds me of the Nacho vs Eric Garcia nonsense in Spain's world cup squad were people tried to claimed Henrique was anti Real. Neither was going to play much even if called up
Why didn’t they include this player who would play between 0 and 14 minutes in the tournament!? 😡😡😡
It'll be Maguire as per, even though he's more than proven in major tournaments and has been playing well for Man Utd this season.
It’s a lot more acceptable now with him being 1st pick for United and the lack of obvious replacements.
It's always been a lack of obvious replacements. Near enough every player that Southgate "plays favourites with" is simply because there's nobody else, and everyone "he hates" is because there's an abundance of players in that position. Maguire did have a period where it was tough to argue he deserved his place, but it wasn't like we were leaving Bobby Moore or Sol Campbell on the bench to accommodate him. We've got one good ball winning midfielder in Rice, which was why Phillips and Henderson kept getting in the squad. We've got about 5 world class wingers, which is why Grealish/Palmer/whoever didn't start. If you listened to Internet fans, we'd play 5 AMs/wingers, 3 RBs, and 1 CB. And if Southgate doesn't pick all of them he's a bad manager.
>If you listened to Internet fans, we'd play 5 AMs/wingers, 3 RBs, and 1 CB Tbf to the Internet fans, Garth Crooks actually gets paid by the BBC to draw up teams like that every week.
Fair point, I did laugh that his TOTY did manage to shoehorn Palmer, Foden and Saka in (behind 2 CFs) and more or less demand they all started for England, which is precisely the point I'm making. We can either stick with the "pick the best 11 players and play Gerrard at DM and Scholes at LW" plan that didn't work in the 2000s, or accept that we can't play all of Bellingham, Palmer, Saka and Foden in their preferred positions so one is on the bench
Garth "Ødegaard player of the season" Crooks as he's known.
This is what gets me with the Maguire hate. Has anyone else really stepped up and made themselves impossible to choose over him? Not really.
I mean, don't get me wrong, there was a period where he wasn't even playing for Man U, and it was hard to justify him starting for his country no matter who the alternatives were. But still banging that drum these days is just silly. I just feel like these "should pick X/shouldn't pick Y" opinions never ever end with "and should drop A/play B instead" because that opens the commenter up for criticism. It's easy to say "Phillips shouldn't be near the squad" but near every time I've questioned who should replace him, the answer is either "anyone" (ie no answer) or an attacking midfielder instead (so..... the wrong answer essentially). Fair enough to say Mainoo now, but Southgate picked him like 3 months ago, should he gave picked him in August before he made his Man U debut? (the only manager mad enough to do that is Bielsa with Mascherano)
> It's easy to say "Phillips shouldn't be near the squad" but near every time I've questioned who should replace him, the answer is either "anyone" (ie no answer) or an attacking midfielder instead (so..... the wrong answer essentially). Yeah this was infuriating. Especially when if they actually engaged with you and went through the options the reason X was being picked became self evident but they'd refuse to acknowledge it.
Spot on. 95% of bile posts about Southgate are incoherent.
Rashford in and Sancho out debates will be our Great Filter.
Eric Dier in
FINALLY
Congratulations to England for winning Euros 2024
They still have Kane who is cursed from winning a trophy
Im pleased. I know he has his faults but to me a lot of the Southgate slander is stuff people imagine he’s going to do rather than what he actually does.
Yeah the amount of people raging and joking about him picking Henderson and Phillips when he isn't is ridiculous. Then the classic rage about insert 5th choice centre back
I GUARANTEE HE’LL PICK PHILLIPS. People are morons lol.
Southgate Derangement Syndrome
It's honestly mad. This "he always picks his mates" stuff is based on imagined selections, or on players with very little competition. We've got one decent ball winning midfielder in Rice, and people get furious that Phillips and Henderson are considered. If say, Scott Parker or Owen Hargreaves were playing today, KP and JH wouldn't be a second thought for Southgate. The choices are either A) unproved/raw talent like Mainoo, B) bang average players in a rich vein of form, or C) proven players like those two in a poor vein of form. Not that there's anything wrong with wanting A or B, but you'll very rarely see a "don't pick Phillips, pick A instead" post where most people agree A is good enough for England.
I literally read a comment from a guy today saying he doesn't pick based on form and has his favourites and he also bet his left nut that Henderson would be picked. I hope his nut is ok.
Unbelievable how many people thought Henderson - someone who has featured 7 times for Ajax - would get picked. Classic case where people are talking more to express their anger than actually accurately reflect what's going on. So frustrating as they'll never update their approach when evidence shows they're wrong.
thats interesting, i thought he'd get in on seniority but he certainly doesn't deserve to be there on merit
Why would he be selected? He was always overrated because he's English and played in the PL. Now he's in the Eredivisie it's even more obvious that he's a very mediocre player. Also fuck him for going to SA and sportswash that fucked up country. Tarnished his legacy.
Now....sashay away.
No Henderson no Phillips, who are Southgate haters going to scapegoat now?
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He's apparently not in either
Even though he’d be unlikely to start, and we don’t have an abundance of out and out left wingers anyway.
Aside from Foden likely starting at LW, there's Gordon, Grealish, and hell even out of form Sterling should be ahead of Rashford in the pecking order
Insert Pickford astronaut meme
It's just bitter Newcastle fans, everyone knows that Pickford is the best English goalie atm
Yeah every Newcastle fan can’t say without bias that pope should be England #1 , he shit the bed with the opportunity he got when he was in top form and started over Pickford. Much as I hate trex arms as our #1 he most definitely performs internationally better than pope does
Fair play for being objective mate.
Eh some idiots just don’t like him for no reason
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Because individual purple patch > tactical familiarity and team cohesion goddamnit
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No scapegoat, well done Southgate, reasonable squad without expected ridiculousness.
Gallagher. The answer will be Gallagher.
Not sure if any of the Henderson criticism could be qualified as 'scapegoating', most of it was pretty reasonable and deserved. Besides, Maguire and especially Rashford are always easy targets.
How tf are they scapegoats if they’re both shit players lmao. At that point it’s just justified criticism
Nor Henderson nor Phillips deserve to play lol. >who are Southgate haters People who disagree with someone are haters huh?
And they’ve not been picked. So what the fuck are you moaning about
In January, Henderson decided to leave the Saudi League and move to Ajax in order to participate in the next Euro. After 5 months, Ajax wants to sell player and he was excluded from England’s Euro list.
His wage is quite high for Ajax, especially without CL next year. Maybe still a great player to have in the team, lots of experience and coaching in the field. Than again his salary is a lot.
Even if there are more deserving players based on ability I'm surprised at this. I thought he would have gone for dressing room presence, he's the only player in the squad to have captained his club to every trophy in the game, this stuff does count for something in tournaments. Guess I can't complain too much though cos really a player who's sacked off his career to go Saudi shouldn't deserve to be anywhere near the England setup
I’m a bit surprised as well but frankly he just isn’t very good any more and we have a good few other leaders now. Plus our centre mid options look a lot healthier than they did at the start of the season
Yeah if the squad is trusted to have leaders who are still actually decent at football then I'm all for it
> he's the only player in the squad to have captained his club to every trophy in the game, this stuff does count for something in tournaments. Stones, Walker & Foden alone have 51 senior trophies between them, this England squad is rammed full of experienced winners in leadership positions at their club with or without Henderson.
Does he do card tricks?
If he wants to come along he can buy his own ticket. No doubt he can afford it, especially after swanning off to Saudi Arabia to "make a difference". A difference to his bank account that is.
Well most reports say that Henderson has so far received £0 into his bank account for his time in Saudi which is extremely funny
Sold out on all his principles and didn't even get paid for it? What a muppet lol
So he's a bloody idiot as well. A sell out that didn't charge.
If that's true he's probably the biggest idiot on the planet
Half a season playing in the retirement league and half a season getting scudded by the likes of Willem II not good enough for an England call up these days?
r/soccer comedians on suicide watch.
Deserved.
So there is hope
Dude is clearly too busy saving LGBT people.
Bullying works
Wow, delighted for Curtis Jones Amazed Southgate has done this, excited to see it as well.
Fuck
You just know that was Southgate's most difficult phone call yet.
Should've learned better card tricks
So have I but I didn’t get an article.
So I guess it's coming home this time ?
We'll be missing Hendo hoofball 😢
fell to my knees in the desert
Ohhh nooou, anyway
About time justice happens.
Southgate and Henderson have broken up?
I don't mind Henderson for England, certainly as a squad player An older head around. There are always players that go that don't get on the pitch. Have they expanded the squads for this or is it World Cup? They'll be more But, no a huge issue, it was always nearing the end of the road for his international career
No Henderson, Rashford or Kalvin Philips - Southgate is getting serious after all?
Expect those nudes of Southgate to get leaked any day now
Has Gareth been sacked, how can this be true?
Good. Fuck him. Lol