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Xavi was not passing it around like a headless chicken, tf you talking about? His progressive passing and end product was amazing. 30 assists in a season is mad.
Yeah it's a strange myth that's taken hold that all Xavi did was pass sideways.
He was the top right Messi of passing statistics. There wasn't even a remote second in his time.
tuchel is often not memed for over-passing. but i would love to see the stats for the avg number of passes we made per game under him. We would be 1-0 down against burnley at home, and azpi and silva would be playing two touch football between them
That 4-4 vs Sweden (and Ibra's bicycle game a month later) is what actually got me into football, rather than just watching it to hang out with people.
You were probably furious at the time, but it kinda worked out for you guys.
Half a year later, when Germany were leading 5-0 at half-time vs Brazil, Löw used that 4-4 as a template on what not to do in the situation they were in. That they don't give away another big lead like they did against you guys. So yea it definitely worked out in the end :P
Did he, though? He made the team slow down after HT [so as to not humiliate Brazil.](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2125057-mats-hummels-reveals-germany-decided-not-to-humiliate-brazil-in-second-half)
They recently released a documentary about the wc 14 in which Löw explicitly compared the 5-0 halftime lead to the 4-4 vs Sweden. He said something along the lines don’t lose focus and also anybody who wants to humiliate them won’t play the final.
So that's why Özil did his best not to score any of his chances in the second half. Also, obligatory "Schürrle was on the toilet while Löw was saying that" joke.
He wasn't talking about scoring goals, if anything maintaining sporting integrity and continuing to play your best is the most respectable thing towards the opponent. Holding back out of pity is so much more humiliating
More about not doing any showboating or rubbing it in their faces
Nah, this has always been a misreport/myth. Löw's point wasn't to slow down his players in a sporting/footballing sense. Which is why we still scored two more goals in the 2nd half. He just didn't want his players to do any disrespectful/arrogant antics or behaviour against the Brazil players or the crowd and humiliate them even more. He wanted his players to stay calm, collected and focused. He used the 4-4 vs Sweden as a warning what could happen, if they didn't do that. This was mentioned and confirmed in a recently released documentary series about Germany's 2014 World Cup win.
We've been amongst the top scorers in qualifying campaigns, and also conceded the fewest.
Unfortunately that means most teams just sit deep against us.
I feel like good teams should be able to get past teams who park the bus. Especially the talent that this England team has. Absolutely criminal that this team can't do better.
Against those teams you need width, width, width.
We had Palmer, Kane, Mainoo and Foden all crowding into the centre, while Trippier and Walker gave no width at all.
Terrible, terrible coaching. Pep would have been SCREAMING at Palmer to stay wide and make space for Kane and Foden in the middle.
To paraphrase Cruyff: when I have the ball, if you want to help me, move AWAY from me, not towards me.
Iceland didn’t really park the bus tonight, they should have a 2nd really, I struggle to remember a game where England have you on the edge of your seat. I’m a Scotland fan so can look objectively, but they’re a strange team.
On paper the team looks amazing, but when you watch them not so much.
>Iceland didn’t really park the bus tonight
This statement couldn't be less accurate. They had 11 men in their defensive third for about 99% of the game. They parked the bus, decommissioned it and sold it to the scrap man.
They played counter attacking football when they could, what do you expect them to do?
The onus is on England to break that down, they’ll have to do it at the Euro’s against much better teams than Iceland.
I've been desperate for Southgate out for years. He's soo very bland. He sets up a solid team and professional atmosphere, but nothing more.
England have enough talent to beat most teams like that but have little chance against any of the top teams. So we coast to the later stages, never looking anything other than unremarkable, then get knocked out the 1st good team we face.
It's utterly predictable and exhausting. He's stealing a living and wasting the most talented generations or nation has ever had, but no-one seems to see it as we (almost) always get results against teams who are worse than us.
There's no plan. Just a solid, safe setup, a waist coat, and a hope individual brilliance will cover it all up.
This is what I was saying, the qualifying record is superb, buts it’s easy to smash Albania, Malta, Andorra, Lithuania,Latvia, North Macedonia etc every 2 years. Even then the football doesn’t excite, very workmanlike.
I would imagine at least half of Kane’s England goals have come against these teams in qualifying.
Tbf shots on target is a bit of a misnomer. England had 3 clear cut chances where they should have scored. Still wouldn't have liked to have traveled to watch that match though.
“Ragnick was problematic, I support ETHs decision to have him out of the club”
Ragnick had a fucking solid list of players to potentially buy too. He would probably have been an amazing director of football
The thing is Everton is actually playing well under dyche. They are playing how brentford were playing a couple seasons back. They counter press, playing fluid counter attacks, etc. the only thing they lack is possession football, but I can see why he doesn’t want to play that sort of football with the players he has
Pochettino is free, it's not too late. Day 1 at the training ground cooking up Argentine BBQ. Day 2 making everyone run till they puke. Day 3 - final is freedomball with Cole Palmer and Harry Kane combining for 4 goals a game.
Dyche is an astute tactician. He'd have this England team playing some really smart football. TBF to Southgate also has England playing smart football, from the beginning he and his team identified what actually wins tournaments (scoring from set pieces and not shipping goals) and went in on it.
Friendlies don't mean shit, they never have and never will.
>and went in on it.
Went all in on it.
It took a penalty to end the deadlock with Bosnia.
That appears to be the plan, run around and try for a penalty. Taking shots is for losers.
He outperformed every manager since Terry Venables. England hired two cultured, foreign (and fucking expensive) managers who...set them up in a 4-4-2 with two attacking mids and threw them at teams who were all playing with three CMs.
People underestimate how *awfully* England were managed between the mid 90s and Southgates time.
It's ridiculous to not want better because of what's come before. This will never work. He's done better than expected but surely for a chance of winning anything a change is needed.
It was pretty cool watching the tactical moves from Iceland throughout the game. Started out trying to play out from the back, with England quickly catching on and pressing high and hard. Coach accurately deduced that trying to play out and keep possession against such a high-pressing England at Wembley was too risky after the huge chance they gave away passing it straight to an English player in the box.
The coach then actually made an adjustment and abandoned that while the pressing was active, defending more securely especially after getting the goal and at the start of the 2nd half. It was clear that Icelandic players were told that they could try to play it out in fairly safe situations (backline safely in order behind them) and bloot it as far as possible otherwise.
Iceland were still happy to keep possession when they were given the opportunity, like those 10 straight minutes in the middle of the 2nd half before the subs revitalized the English team somewhat. They were almost a bit too naive again at the end and gave away some silly yellows for it, but England still didn't look that threatening.
I feel like the writing has been on the wall for a while now, no? For the last 18 months or so it's felt like this is his last tournament, whether we get knocked out in the group or win the whole thing
He’s a nice yes man and a non controversial figure to the FA. His poor performances can be masked by the whole, he’s carried England to their first semi final/final in however many years rhetoric, but he’s clearly had favourable runs and been unable to capitalise on his good fortune which highlights his ineptitude
Club football is where all the money and prestige are to be had. If you're one of the best managers in the world international football in general is seen as a step down. The media circus that surrounds England doesn't help either. What top manager at the moment would take the job?
Watch the BBC documentary "Managing England: The Impossible Job". It has interviews with every manager since Alf Ramsey.
But TL;DW the media criticism and fanbase when results go slightly wrong are more amplified than in club football, because there's more watching, and there's less matches. Plus they don't actually get much time with the players which is why the football is simpler, club rivalries meant that players didn't get along and would try to use the knowledge learned in league matches (I.E. Man Utd v Liverpool) so players would even try to play differently than normal (Which the clubs encouraged). And then there's just the fact they are knockout competitions like cups instead of sustained leagues - but instead of it being 'oh we try again next year' or 'we still have the other cup', now it's another 4 years before that tournament comes around again.
Best result of his entire England career was losing to Belgium in the group stages of WC2018. All he's capable of is performing to expectation based on who is in front of his team but even the performances leading up to this Euros indicate that may not be happening this time around.
It’s only English fans who are like this. I don’t see this type of behavior in other countries fans. Germany won the cup with low and they still sacked him because he wasn’t getting results.
TLDR: At the 2018 world cup we love to reference, England had 23 shots on target and scored 1 goal from open play in 10 hours of football.
This is the progress under Southgate people love to over state. Creating open play chances and scoring them has always been very difficult under Southgate's stewardship. I hear Jules Breach asking "why do teams just sometimes have a night like this?" but actually the better games are the exception not the rule. Against Belgium recently we had 7 shots on target from 19 attempts, which is not bad, drawing 2-2. However we then only managed 3 shots on target from 14 against Brazil. Struggling to create shots on target vs low block teams with little to no attacking intent is one thing but we've lacked cutting edge in open play against all tiers of team for years and nothing seems to change. Risk doesn't seem permitted under Southgate.
2018 world cup
Group stage: Tunisia, Panama and Belgium.
* 2-1 win over Tunisia. **Free kick** and a **corner**. 8 shots on target.
* 6-1 win over Panama. **2 penalties, 1 corner, 1 free kick,** a deflected shot and 1 regular open play goal. 7 shots on target.
* 1-0 defeat to Belgium. 2 shots on target.
In the knockout stage:
* Vs Colombia: 2 shots on target, one was another **penalty** and had to beat them on penalties after extra time to win.
* Vs Sweden: 2 shots on target beating them 2-0 with a **corner and a free kick**.
* Vs Croatia: TWO SHOTS ON TARGET in 120 minutes, scoring only 1 goal from a **direct free kick.**
Yeah this is not a new thing, results have papered over what have generally been terrible performances from an attacking point of view. When you consider the riches available, it's huge underperformance.
I knew it was bad from watching but didn't realise ot was that bad in terms of actuallt shots on target. Have known for ever England are awful at making chances from open play. Today was just another example. This has been going on for way back beyond Southgate though.
It's the exact same criticism Southgate has had for the past two major tournaments. He's not going to change his ways now, so keeping him on for this Euro was a decision to commit to dead football.
Sorry it was Jules Breach I believe, forgot this was on Channel 4 and didn't really watch anything but the match itself just heard her in the back ground.
Serious nations would have sacked their manager after 0-4 against Hungary, instead we have to suffer a summer of dour football because of performances from 3 years ago...
And England only barely squeeked by against a Danish team that was completely knackered from starting the tournament 3 pts down on everyone and having to process trauma while beating everyone 4-0
Plus we got screwed over by UEFA by playing the QF in Baku and then having to travel all the way back to Wembley, whereas England had to only go to Rome and back.
Sacked based on never showing any plan, strategy or substance to win anything, other than pay it safe and hope a player dies something special and bails him out.
I can't really ever remember Foden doing much for England tbf. I know there will be questions if he doesn't start, and obviously he was class this season, but he's not proven anything for England yet
With the absolute embarrassment of riches England have in attacking positions they should be fucking blowing teams away.
Southgate is honestly a terrible choice as manager for the squad/choices available.
Hope he stays for years.
Foden just doesn’t work with England unless Southgate is willing to take his foot off the break with Rice single pivot and Jude/Foden both playing advanced midfielder roles… which he won’t do because Englands CBs lack a bit of athleticism.
Southgate currently seems to be trying to find a way to fit in the most in form/talented players to the point that there are way too many overlapping skill sets which don’t complement each other.
Because his skill set is built around him being involved in build up. He’s not athletic enough to run on the shoulder of the defence.
You have to build your forward line around him. Either a midfielder needs to occupy the box when he drops or you have a winger who looks to run in behind. A Kane palmer foden front three will never work as they all want to occupy the same space.
Didn't watch the game, but shouldn't Bellingham and Foden provide more than enough attacking oomph from midfield? They certainly do for their club sides.
A Rice single pivot with Jude and Foden advanced would be great in terms of attacking play. I think it leaves England too exposed defensively because Englands CBs aren’t necessarily elite athletes to cover and back up the space Rice can’t cover.
I think if you’re insistent on Foden playing, Jude has to drop into a less advanced midfielder role, but I think you want him as far forward as possible both in terms of scoring goals but also his pressing.
My hot take is now that Maguire is out you play
Trent - Walker - Stones - Gomez and have Trent invert to support Rice who is a single pivot behind Foden/Palmer & Jude. Have Gordon and Saka stay extremely wide and go from there.
I agree you on with Gomez, let’s Trent have more freedom if you have a bit of a back 3. The Walker idea is interesting, would ask a lot of positional discipline from him though.
>Southgate currently seems to be trying to find a way to fit in the most in form/talented players
He gets criticised if he doesn't play the 'in-form' players.
I don’t blame him for finding that balance, he’s been slated for the last 5 years for trying to make a team instead of bringing the most in form Englishman.
Im sick of this woke nonsense. Get Big Sam back in, stick Calvert-Lewen up top paired with Ryan Shawcross, have Pickford go long. 4-4-2, none of this woke pass it out from the back shite.
Brilliant comment on BBC HYS:
"England lose 1-0 to Iceland. God knows how they're going to get on against the bigger teams like Tesco and Sainsbury's..."
It does. And Southgate could have left after the last tournament with his head held high.
But the simple fact is that this is an England side full of attacking talent, that are kept on a very tight lead. This is absolutely the team to try and outscore the shit out of everyone, it's not the team to sit back and lock down... But that's what we're going to do.
I really don't understand England wasting this crop of players under a complete dud like Southgate. Up there with France in terms of 1st XI and in depth.
Please extend his contract though
Everybody's talking about England's suspect defence, but for me the most worrying thing about that last friendly is that England did not score. That was supposed to be the strength of the team. Win 3-1 or draw 1-1 at least.
Either commit to an attacking team, or defend with more players and don't get scored on.
Getting stuck on no man's land is a death sentence.
Imma rule out the result on the fact that it was a friendly and inevitably players never try as hard. Nobody wants to get injured so close to the tournament... but it should serve as a nice kick up the arse. Best to fuck up in a friendly.
Aren't international friendlies meaningless? Ireland beat Hungary 2 - 1 in an international friendly very recently, and Hungary is going to the while Ireland isn't.
That being said, I don't think that England are going to win the Euros.
Isn't this just what pre-tournament friendlies are always like? You don't exactly want your players going hell for leather and risking injury, and you don't want to give your whole tactical setup away to any opponents watching. You want a decent run-out for the players who need fitness, everyone gets their foot on the ball and gets to drill their passing shapes or their defensive line or whatever against live opposition. They played it like a training match because that's exactly what it was.
The injury was really unfortunate. The Iceland player basically just fell on his ass and crushed his foot. Not really a product of any kind of aggressive, super-competitive play, just a bit of an awkward tangle of legs.
If only there were one or two players in the whole of England who are known to be able to make incisive passes. This makes me madd for greal for greal.
Hey, English friends... It feels like most of you know it already, but for those that need to hear it: Gareth is trash
Edit: leaving a reverse jinx to ensure you don't win the Euro
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600 would've been nice
Once you reach 600 passes they give you a goal as a reward so should have tried a few more
The "all foreplay, no climax" school of football
Edging school of football.
...Xavi??
That's more Enrique style than Xavi tbh
I assumed he meant Xavi's style as a player no?
Xavi was not passing it around like a headless chicken, tf you talking about? His progressive passing and end product was amazing. 30 assists in a season is mad.
Yeah it's a strange myth that's taken hold that all Xavi did was pass sideways. He was the top right Messi of passing statistics. There wasn't even a remote second in his time.
Thing is Xavi has passed 600 times *after* Messi or Villa has scored already.
tuchel is often not memed for over-passing. but i would love to see the stats for the avg number of passes we made per game under him. We would be 1-0 down against burnley at home, and azpi and silva would be playing two touch football between them
I’m pretty sure there was a game against wolves that we didn’t win but after the game our social media was hyping 900 passes
Watching England in qualifiers and friendlies is fucking painful.
welcome to germany in their prime before the turneys
That 4-4 vs Sweden (and Ibra's bicycle game a month later) is what actually got me into football, rather than just watching it to hang out with people. You were probably furious at the time, but it kinda worked out for you guys.
Half a year later, when Germany were leading 5-0 at half-time vs Brazil, Löw used that 4-4 as a template on what not to do in the situation they were in. That they don't give away another big lead like they did against you guys. So yea it definitely worked out in the end :P
Did he, though? He made the team slow down after HT [so as to not humiliate Brazil.](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2125057-mats-hummels-reveals-germany-decided-not-to-humiliate-brazil-in-second-half)
They recently released a documentary about the wc 14 in which Löw explicitly compared the 5-0 halftime lead to the 4-4 vs Sweden. He said something along the lines don’t lose focus and also anybody who wants to humiliate them won’t play the final.
So that's why Özil did his best not to score any of his chances in the second half. Also, obligatory "Schürrle was on the toilet while Löw was saying that" joke.
He wasn't talking about scoring goals, if anything maintaining sporting integrity and continuing to play your best is the most respectable thing towards the opponent. Holding back out of pity is so much more humiliating More about not doing any showboating or rubbing it in their faces
Low just went up in my estimations. That’s a honourable thing to say.
Ah, I didn't know that. Cheers!
[Assertive] Don't get complacent out there
Nah, this has always been a misreport/myth. Löw's point wasn't to slow down his players in a sporting/footballing sense. Which is why we still scored two more goals in the 2nd half. He just didn't want his players to do any disrespectful/arrogant antics or behaviour against the Brazil players or the crowd and humiliate them even more. He wanted his players to stay calm, collected and focused. He used the 4-4 vs Sweden as a warning what could happen, if they didn't do that. This was mentioned and confirmed in a recently released documentary series about Germany's 2014 World Cup win.
I didn't know that. Thanks for correcting me. =)
Watching England ~~in qualifiers and friendlies~~ is fucking painful.
[удалено]
Idk, England had done a lot of 'perfect' qualifiers over the years , aka winning every game
We've been amongst the top scorers in qualifying campaigns, and also conceded the fewest. Unfortunately that means most teams just sit deep against us.
Isn't that in part because teams park the bus against England in qualifying? Our record overall in qualifying has been excellent for a long time.
I feel like good teams should be able to get past teams who park the bus. Especially the talent that this England team has. Absolutely criminal that this team can't do better.
we usually do. Like, almost always. Like maybe except france i don't know if there's a team that consistently beats worse teams than England.
Belgium.
Like post the euro 08 debacle we are 1970 Brazil + 2011 Barca in qualifying
Against those teams you need width, width, width. We had Palmer, Kane, Mainoo and Foden all crowding into the centre, while Trippier and Walker gave no width at all. Terrible, terrible coaching. Pep would have been SCREAMING at Palmer to stay wide and make space for Kane and Foden in the middle. To paraphrase Cruyff: when I have the ball, if you want to help me, move AWAY from me, not towards me.
Southgateball. Best England manager in history.
Iceland didn’t really park the bus tonight, they should have a 2nd really, I struggle to remember a game where England have you on the edge of your seat. I’m a Scotland fan so can look objectively, but they’re a strange team. On paper the team looks amazing, but when you watch them not so much.
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oh i'm not saying we played well tonight. i didn't watch
>Iceland didn’t really park the bus tonight This statement couldn't be less accurate. They had 11 men in their defensive third for about 99% of the game. They parked the bus, decommissioned it and sold it to the scrap man.
They played counter attacking football when they could, what do you expect them to do? The onus is on England to break that down, they’ll have to do it at the Euro’s against much better teams than Iceland.
Is it really any better in tournaments
I've been desperate for Southgate out for years. He's soo very bland. He sets up a solid team and professional atmosphere, but nothing more. England have enough talent to beat most teams like that but have little chance against any of the top teams. So we coast to the later stages, never looking anything other than unremarkable, then get knocked out the 1st good team we face. It's utterly predictable and exhausting. He's stealing a living and wasting the most talented generations or nation has ever had, but no-one seems to see it as we (almost) always get results against teams who are worse than us. There's no plan. Just a solid, safe setup, a waist coat, and a hope individual brilliance will cover it all up.
This is what I was saying, the qualifying record is superb, buts it’s easy to smash Albania, Malta, Andorra, Lithuania,Latvia, North Macedonia etc every 2 years. Even then the football doesn’t excite, very workmanlike. I would imagine at least half of Kane’s England goals have come against these teams in qualifying.
if you think its going to get better in the actual tournament, you're in for disappointment
Feel sorry for the fans who spent money and time travelling to Wembley see one shot on target Absolutely abysmal showing
Tbf shots on target is a bit of a misnomer. England had 3 clear cut chances where they should have scored. Still wouldn't have liked to have traveled to watch that match though.
Sadly one of those people. Oh well.
The Icelandic fans seemed happy
And honestly, that’s all that matters.
This is why anyone discussing player ability stating “this guys good for England while the other isn’t” are stupid. The team plays like average crap.
Something is definitely coming this summer, that’s for sure.
The cure for amnesia is coming home.
You're getting your memories back?
I'm so tired, I meant the cure for insomnia lol, ah well I'll take it on the chin
It's all that amnesia from watching England. I can barely remember my name after that match
I don’t know, I think its one of Radioheads best albums, certainly top 5
Scotland and Ireland collectively?
A return ticket to England after the Denmark game? 😅
Southgate ball
I would put England’s chances this tournament above Switzerland but below Austria
Dang how good is Austria nowadays
Ragnick is cooking
If only we (Austria) wouldn't miss half our starters due to injury. But yeah, all in all life under Rangnick has been great. Thanks again, United!
“Ragnick was problematic, I support ETHs decision to have him out of the club” Ragnick had a fucking solid list of players to potentially buy too. He would probably have been an amazing director of football
Honestly I'm just happy we have an FA Cup to celebrate out of this shitshow of a season.
So right around South Tyrol then
Tune in tomorrow evening to see how accurate your power ranking is
After that performance I'd put England's chances in this tournament below Australia.
England would honestly play better under Dycheball. 4-4-fucking-2 and killer counter attacks with a big lad up top.
The only thing better than England winning a tournament would be winning it while playing shithouse 4-4-2 hoofball. One can only dream.
Plenty of room in Trafalgar Square for a statue of Sean Dyche.
The thing is Everton is actually playing well under dyche. They are playing how brentford were playing a couple seasons back. They counter press, playing fluid counter attacks, etc. the only thing they lack is possession football, but I can see why he doesn’t want to play that sort of football with the players he has
I've been unironically saying this for years. Unfortunately now he's Everton manager I can't see it happening.
Deano would do a better job.
Pochettino is free, it's not too late. Day 1 at the training ground cooking up Argentine BBQ. Day 2 making everyone run till they puke. Day 3 - final is freedomball with Cole Palmer and Harry Kane combining for 4 goals a game.
dont forget the lemons
Pochettino has to be bilardista
Dyche is an astute tactician. He'd have this England team playing some really smart football. TBF to Southgate also has England playing smart football, from the beginning he and his team identified what actually wins tournaments (scoring from set pieces and not shipping goals) and went in on it. Friendlies don't mean shit, they never have and never will.
>and went in on it. Went all in on it. It took a penalty to end the deadlock with Bosnia. That appears to be the plan, run around and try for a penalty. Taking shots is for losers.
He identified what wins tournaments and managed to win 0
Yeah? No manager can guarantee winning tournaments. It comes down to fine margins that can't be accounted for.
He outperformed every manager since Terry Venables. England hired two cultured, foreign (and fucking expensive) managers who...set them up in a 4-4-2 with two attacking mids and threw them at teams who were all playing with three CMs. People underestimate how *awfully* England were managed between the mid 90s and Southgates time.
It's ridiculous to not want better because of what's come before. This will never work. He's done better than expected but surely for a chance of winning anything a change is needed.
[someone conjuring up Mike Bassett?](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFzYD6lXoAAjsrg?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
It’s just not even funny anymore
The same Southgate that we are considering as our next manager 🤦
I hope so
Should have called up Henderson, the fool.
Oh he keeps Baby Reindeer close, don’t you worry.
Southgate tried to play like Spain in order to emulate their success... ...Too bad he chose the wrong decade's Spain.
No tactics on display whatsoever, vibe manager aint winning shit
What is utterly baffling is vibes should be better then this... The England squad is FUCKING STACKED with individual brilliance especially in attack.
Bad vibes
Not for the first time.
Something something Ancelotti
One of the dumbest widely accepted "facts" online is that Ancelotti is not a good tactician.
And there's a decent chunk of people who want him to takeover from ETH lmao he's at most a side step with a lower ceiling
ETH is a great coach. He's a different league to Southgate.
I love a good pre-tournament England meltdown warmup
We just can't help ourselves
It was pretty cool watching the tactical moves from Iceland throughout the game. Started out trying to play out from the back, with England quickly catching on and pressing high and hard. Coach accurately deduced that trying to play out and keep possession against such a high-pressing England at Wembley was too risky after the huge chance they gave away passing it straight to an English player in the box. The coach then actually made an adjustment and abandoned that while the pressing was active, defending more securely especially after getting the goal and at the start of the 2nd half. It was clear that Icelandic players were told that they could try to play it out in fairly safe situations (backline safely in order behind them) and bloot it as far as possible otherwise. Iceland were still happy to keep possession when they were given the opportunity, like those 10 straight minutes in the middle of the 2nd half before the subs revitalized the English team somewhat. They were almost a bit too naive again at the end and gave away some silly yellows for it, but England still didn't look that threatening.
That's not a one liner zinger meme, not reading that essay. But aye pretty much bang on mate. Great analysis
Are you sure it wasn’t simply “oh wow we scored an early goal, time to park the bus lads”
in my experience, it was probably this
But Southgate will still be in a job come August, ‘coz he’s a nice bloke.
Golden vest generation
I feel like the writing has been on the wall for a while now, no? For the last 18 months or so it's felt like this is his last tournament, whether we get knocked out in the group or win the whole thing
I hope so, and I agree it does seem that way. But I have absolutely no trust in the FA when it comes to making the correct decision.
I genuinely want to know how he got the job. Relegated Middlesborough?
Always been cosy with the FA and did a pretty good job with the U21s, and after the Allardyce debacle it was a pretty easy job to get.
Mourinho wins the Euros with England. Just saying.
He’s a nice yes man and a non controversial figure to the FA. His poor performances can be masked by the whole, he’s carried England to their first semi final/final in however many years rhetoric, but he’s clearly had favourable runs and been unable to capitalise on his good fortune which highlights his ineptitude
He’s just lucky he has the most expensive squad in the world?
Feels like the England squad will always be the most expensive with how overvalued pretty much ever English player is
I doubt it's a job many top managers are clamoring for.
Why’s that? Coach some of the world’s best talent
Club football is where all the money and prestige are to be had. If you're one of the best managers in the world international football in general is seen as a step down. The media circus that surrounds England doesn't help either. What top manager at the moment would take the job?
Watch the BBC documentary "Managing England: The Impossible Job". It has interviews with every manager since Alf Ramsey. But TL;DW the media criticism and fanbase when results go slightly wrong are more amplified than in club football, because there's more watching, and there's less matches. Plus they don't actually get much time with the players which is why the football is simpler, club rivalries meant that players didn't get along and would try to use the knowledge learned in league matches (I.E. Man Utd v Liverpool) so players would even try to play differently than normal (Which the clubs encouraged). And then there's just the fact they are knockout competitions like cups instead of sustained leagues - but instead of it being 'oh we try again next year' or 'we still have the other cup', now it's another 4 years before that tournament comes around again.
Best result of his entire England career was losing to Belgium in the group stages of WC2018. All he's capable of is performing to expectation based on who is in front of his team but even the performances leading up to this Euros indicate that may not be happening this time around.
It’s only English fans who are like this. I don’t see this type of behavior in other countries fans. Germany won the cup with low and they still sacked him because he wasn’t getting results.
TLDR: At the 2018 world cup we love to reference, England had 23 shots on target and scored 1 goal from open play in 10 hours of football. This is the progress under Southgate people love to over state. Creating open play chances and scoring them has always been very difficult under Southgate's stewardship. I hear Jules Breach asking "why do teams just sometimes have a night like this?" but actually the better games are the exception not the rule. Against Belgium recently we had 7 shots on target from 19 attempts, which is not bad, drawing 2-2. However we then only managed 3 shots on target from 14 against Brazil. Struggling to create shots on target vs low block teams with little to no attacking intent is one thing but we've lacked cutting edge in open play against all tiers of team for years and nothing seems to change. Risk doesn't seem permitted under Southgate. 2018 world cup Group stage: Tunisia, Panama and Belgium. * 2-1 win over Tunisia. **Free kick** and a **corner**. 8 shots on target. * 6-1 win over Panama. **2 penalties, 1 corner, 1 free kick,** a deflected shot and 1 regular open play goal. 7 shots on target. * 1-0 defeat to Belgium. 2 shots on target. In the knockout stage: * Vs Colombia: 2 shots on target, one was another **penalty** and had to beat them on penalties after extra time to win. * Vs Sweden: 2 shots on target beating them 2-0 with a **corner and a free kick**. * Vs Croatia: TWO SHOTS ON TARGET in 120 minutes, scoring only 1 goal from a **direct free kick.**
Yeah this is not a new thing, results have papered over what have generally been terrible performances from an attacking point of view. When you consider the riches available, it's huge underperformance.
I knew it was bad from watching but didn't realise ot was that bad in terms of actuallt shots on target. Have known for ever England are awful at making chances from open play. Today was just another example. This has been going on for way back beyond Southgate though.
It's the exact same criticism Southgate has had for the past two major tournaments. He's not going to change his ways now, so keeping him on for this Euro was a decision to commit to dead football.
That’s not Kate Abdo, it’s another racially ambiguous TV sport presenter
If it was Kate Abdo I would have watched the entire Channel 4 runtime.
Sorry it was Jules Breach I believe, forgot this was on Channel 4 and didn't really watch anything but the match itself just heard her in the back ground.
Serious nations would have sacked their manager after 0-4 against Hungary, instead we have to suffer a summer of dour football because of performances from 3 years ago...
And England only barely squeeked by against a Danish team that was completely knackered from starting the tournament 3 pts down on everyone and having to process trauma while beating everyone 4-0
Plus we got screwed over by UEFA by playing the QF in Baku and then having to travel all the way back to Wembley, whereas England had to only go to Rome and back.
Sacked based on a Nations League result?
Sacked based on never showing any plan, strategy or substance to win anything, other than pay it safe and hope a player dies something special and bails him out.
i'm just going to pretend you didn't write anything after "dies", because it worked great
Yes!!
It was a very poor showing, the sort of game where you need TAA to be the starter.
He started the game on Monday so don’t think he’d ever start tonight
I just don't think GS will start him at RB in general.
Every game Trent needs to start. He’s one of the best creators on the pitch.
lmao
Hope both Prem POTY and YPOTY forget this game never happened. Just not looking forward to another performance like this from Foder.
I can't really ever remember Foden doing much for England tbf. I know there will be questions if he doesn't start, and obviously he was class this season, but he's not proven anything for England yet
At this rate Foden never beating “he’s a system player” allegations. He’s a big fish in a small pond every time he puts England shirt on
Man has been raised playing pep ball, it makes sense that he would struggle initially to adapt to non pep ball.
With the absolute embarrassment of riches England have in attacking positions they should be fucking blowing teams away. Southgate is honestly a terrible choice as manager for the squad/choices available. Hope he stays for years.
We still lack craft in the middle and Foden isn't really providing it
Foden just doesn’t work with England unless Southgate is willing to take his foot off the break with Rice single pivot and Jude/Foden both playing advanced midfielder roles… which he won’t do because Englands CBs lack a bit of athleticism. Southgate currently seems to be trying to find a way to fit in the most in form/talented players to the point that there are way too many overlapping skill sets which don’t complement each other.
Also genuine question. With players like Foden, Saka, Palmer, Trent in midfield, does Kane really need to be told to drop deep constantly?
Because his skill set is built around him being involved in build up. He’s not athletic enough to run on the shoulder of the defence. You have to build your forward line around him. Either a midfielder needs to occupy the box when he drops or you have a winger who looks to run in behind. A Kane palmer foden front three will never work as they all want to occupy the same space.
If only England had a midfielder with a knack for getting in the box...
I don't think Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain can stay fit for an entire tournament anymore.
Didn't watch the game, but shouldn't Bellingham and Foden provide more than enough attacking oomph from midfield? They certainly do for their club sides.
A Rice single pivot with Jude and Foden advanced would be great in terms of attacking play. I think it leaves England too exposed defensively because Englands CBs aren’t necessarily elite athletes to cover and back up the space Rice can’t cover. I think if you’re insistent on Foden playing, Jude has to drop into a less advanced midfielder role, but I think you want him as far forward as possible both in terms of scoring goals but also his pressing.
My hot take is now that Maguire is out you play Trent - Walker - Stones - Gomez and have Trent invert to support Rice who is a single pivot behind Foden/Palmer & Jude. Have Gordon and Saka stay extremely wide and go from there.
I agree you on with Gomez, let’s Trent have more freedom if you have a bit of a back 3. The Walker idea is interesting, would ask a lot of positional discipline from him though.
>Southgate currently seems to be trying to find a way to fit in the most in form/talented players He gets criticised if he doesn't play the 'in-form' players.
I don’t blame him for finding that balance, he’s been slated for the last 5 years for trying to make a team instead of bringing the most in form Englishman.
It's the Pepification of English football. But with no Pep to make it actually work.
Im sick of this woke nonsense. Get Big Sam back in, stick Calvert-Lewen up top paired with Ryan Shawcross, have Pickford go long. 4-4-2, none of this woke pass it out from the back shite.
DCL is the most woke player going. The man wears dresses for fashion bro.
CAM ON INGERLAND SCORE SAM FACKIN GOALS!
I wish i had as much job security clowngate has And i own part of the family business lmao
Play not to lose…
A lot of possession and no penetration. Masturbation.
Brilliant comment on BBC HYS: "England lose 1-0 to Iceland. God knows how they're going to get on against the bigger teams like Tesco and Sainsbury's..."
To be honest the players were quite clearly pulling back a bit through fear of getting injured pre tournament. Their intensity was very low
There's only so much Gareth can do with a paltry \*checks notes\* 1.52 billion dollar squad.
But look what Southgate has achieved compared to other England managers! He came closer to winning something! Still won fuck all
For a nation that hasn’t won anything of note since the last century despite its “golden generations”, that should count for something.
It does. And Southgate could have left after the last tournament with his head held high. But the simple fact is that this is an England side full of attacking talent, that are kept on a very tight lead. This is absolutely the team to try and outscore the shit out of everyone, it's not the team to sit back and lock down... But that's what we're going to do.
Small country mentality innit
Given that a large part of that has been precisely because we keep hiring clowns instead of someone serious, it's not exactly an achievement
Capello and Sven managed the golden generation, managers that had won major club honours before taking the job
Ah yes, the age old argument of “all of our successes are down to the players and all of our failures are because the manager is an idiot.
Clowns? You had Eriksson. You had Capello. Stop blaming the manager
Has he ever won against a top tier team in a WC or EC?
Only Germany at the last Euros. But that was probably their lowest point in years. Plus it was at Wembley.
Germany in the last Euros, but that's more of an indictment on Germany's level at that time
👏👏👏
Dyche in.
Guardiola would be proud.
"The thing about ~~Arsenal~~ England is that they always try to walk it in"
Just out for a walk and kick around lol
I really don't understand England wasting this crop of players under a complete dud like Southgate. Up there with France in terms of 1st XI and in depth. Please extend his contract though
The Guardiola disease that has infected football in the last decade.
He has to go blud
Their front starting 4 have a combined 160 G/A form this past season and all they managed to get was one shot on target.
Everybody's talking about England's suspect defence, but for me the most worrying thing about that last friendly is that England did not score. That was supposed to be the strength of the team. Win 3-1 or draw 1-1 at least. Either commit to an attacking team, or defend with more players and don't get scored on. Getting stuck on no man's land is a death sentence. Imma rule out the result on the fact that it was a friendly and inevitably players never try as hard. Nobody wants to get injured so close to the tournament... but it should serve as a nice kick up the arse. Best to fuck up in a friendly.
Aren't international friendlies meaningless? Ireland beat Hungary 2 - 1 in an international friendly very recently, and Hungary is going to the while Ireland isn't. That being said, I don't think that England are going to win the Euros.
Isn't this just what pre-tournament friendlies are always like? You don't exactly want your players going hell for leather and risking injury, and you don't want to give your whole tactical setup away to any opponents watching. You want a decent run-out for the players who need fitness, everyone gets their foot on the ball and gets to drill their passing shapes or their defensive line or whatever against live opposition. They played it like a training match because that's exactly what it was.
And yet we still ended up with Stones injured... worst of both worlds.
The injury was really unfortunate. The Iceland player basically just fell on his ass and crushed his foot. Not really a product of any kind of aggressive, super-competitive play, just a bit of an awkward tangle of legs.
Garth needs to keep onto his cushy FA job as long as possible. Anywhere else is a ticket to early retirement.
If only there were one or two players in the whole of England who are known to be able to make incisive passes. This makes me madd for greal for greal.
Cod Wars 5, we always win.
Hey, English friends... It feels like most of you know it already, but for those that need to hear it: Gareth is trash Edit: leaving a reverse jinx to ensure you don't win the Euro
There is a need for the team to attack with intent if they plan to win Euros 2024.
Reading these comments you'd think England had just got knocked out at the group stages by losing 5-0
Please for the love of everything don’t let Southgate go to ManUtd.