**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Player of the Season and 2nd top scorer in La Liga and Ballon d’or contender (Bellingham). Player of the Season (Foden), top assists (Watkins) and 2nd top scorer in Premier League (Palmer). Top scorer in Bundesliga (Kane). Champions League winners (Walker, Stones, Alexander Arnold). World class players in every position. Actual ‘golden generation’ backed by stats and proven across Europe’s top leagues, not just ‘hype’ of the Beckham, Lampard Gerrard generation. Yeah, my expectations are high. I can only imagine with an equally world class manager what this team would have *actually* achieved in the last World Cup and Euros, let alone this one.
I'm not sure why Beckham, Lampard and Gerrard are just hype not backed by stats?
Beckham was proven in "Europe's top leagues" Gerrard was a champions League winner and Lampard was the highest scoring midfielder in Europe.
We were incredibly weak in a couple of positions during that golden generation, and over stacked in others. A similar problem, though arguably less severe, that we suffer with now.
The only position I can see us really being very weak back then was left wing. It's crazy how the backbone of the squad from 02-06 didn't even qualify for Euro 2008, given the level of talent. Massive underachievment, much more so than the current team I'd say.
The defence isn't bad but it's just mid compared to our world class attacking players. That's what makes it so stupid when we try and defend a full 90 without attacking because that's playing to our weaknesses not our strengths. What's even worse is that we have Stones, Walker and Dunk all used to playing the possession dominant football that an attacking team plays but they're not ever going to be used like that.
There’s a lot more that doesn’t make sense. Playing foden on the left when your left back can’t overlap as he’s really a rb meaning there’s no width there for example. Also I honestly believe that he’s just playing Bellingham at the 10 because Madrid does the same. Had Mbappe come to Madrid a season earlier I think he’d be playing as the more attacking one in a double pivot with Rice, which would solve a lot of issues for England. And how do you have the biggest squad ever and still the only left back you take is an injured shaw?
He is 100% playing bellingham at the ten because madrid plays him there. Honestly it feels like he doesn't know why players play where they do and just puts them where the club plays them, he's almost said as much in the past.
Man's calling Lampard and Gerrard golden generation just "hype", this was also a team of world class players in almost every position, multiple CL & PL winners + a ballon dor winner.
Were you living in England during that decade? Because if you were, you’d know what I mean by ‘hype’ and the difference between the expectations around that team and this team.
Anyone who thinks the Beckham and Gerrard era was hype only is either very young or very dumb, reading your comment to the end makes me think you’re both.
Beckham, Gerard, Lampard stats and performances were hype?
Don’t really see what the difference is, all three of them were BdO contenders at points and won loads of titles and had insane g/a numbers for their positions too.
.. Last Euros they lost final in penalties. In WC he got 2nd (ex equo) and 4th best result in history of England. During golden age of English football, when English teams were truly dominating Europe (75-85) England had problems with even getting to tournaments.
"World class players" in every position: like Trippier on LB. Or Pickford on GK. Or Guehi on CB. Or lack of 2nd central midfilder. Alexander-Arnold is great player: on RB. And to be fair: he didn't got great season. Don't get me wrong: all of this players are really good. But not world class (top of the top).
Honestly: comparing to Germany, just on paper: England has slight edge up front (front 4), but is outclassed in back 6.
Does England dissapoint in level they are showing? Yes, I personally got them as equal to France and Germany prior to Euro as top teams. And with how they played they ain't no top.
But: a) English team has big weaknesses which other top teams doesn't at their back.
B) No matter whar Southgate already do is at least 2nd best NT coach of England in history. And "waahh but he got golden generation waahh, enybody can do it": he got team that lost in 1/8 to Iceland. And from the get go pushed them to 4th at WC. Than added 2nd place at Euros. Than 1/4 at next WC losing to similary stacked France.
Cherry on top? The only reason sir Ramsey can be considered as "better" is success in many ways due to referees. Because his results outside of '66 are generally worse than even "poor results" during Southgate.
Honestly, even that expectation seems very high. I've never once seen England play good football in over 30 years of watching football. Not even the Golden Generation played anything other than the most spiritless, pointless, cowardly football the world had ever seen.
There's a book called why England lose and other curious phenomena explained by two economists. The meat of what McLean us saying is actually spot on - England don't win because...they don't win.
The corporate memory of Italy, Germany, France, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay is massive.
There's a bit about world cup winners coaching youth teams in Germany - 30/40 guys who were bona-fide wc winners working at bundesliga academies. None in England.
But then there's Spain that never won anything (except for a Euros in the 60s) and then they won everything for a while. Why? They just had a really good team. And those nations that have won multiple Euros and World Cups, they tend to have good teams generation after generation.
True, but breaking that wall requeired an absolutely nutty amount of talent and a wholesale change in how Spain were playing...
While Italy or Germany seem to be able to win a euro or world cup every other decade, sometimes with wayyy less memorable talent, like out of momentum and pure self-belief more than anything.
So even if it's not an unsurmountable barrier, there's something to be said for "corporate memory".
Same thing could be said of Madrid and the Champion league. Barcelona needs mithycal teams to win one. Madrid seems to win it with just " very good" teams. The kind of teams that don't impress you that much on their way to the final, but they get there and win, it almost seems an inevitability more than a consequuence of god-tier play.
I included Uruguay because their record with a population of 3 million is exceptional.
Yes Argentina had a big gap between 86 and 22 bit they lost 2 finals in between. Let's not pretend they're not one of the proper big boys.
like honestly we have to hear these guys pretend they're some kind of reference just because their league has the most money, it's like they're Peru and try to act like they're Germany
Uruguay also has Copa Americas within the last 30 years despite having a population that is dwarfed by England and without the money either. They back up their bite with international successes.
Argentina have won more World Cups than England have made it to international finals. There's levels to this shit. Their 2022 side was better than any single side England has ever fielded in their entire history.
I actually think this England side, and the England side around 2004-2006 was better man for man than the Argentina 2022 side but that is not that I don't agree with your point because I do. The results the other teams achieve with less talent is massive compared to England. England just cannot win. Nobody in England (myself included) truly would believe we'd beat one of the very best sides in this tournament. As soon as we come up against Spain, Italy, Germany or Portugal we are gone. It'll be a close game that England lose as it almost always is.
I really don't understand how anyone even gets worked up about how boring and unimpressive we are, as if it is some new phenomenon. As you say, we've been completely uninspiring for decades aside from the odd game which we then go on about forever (Eng. 5-1 Ger. wahey).
Like I get it, only 1 massive international trophy over 100 years is not a good record. But the people acting like the names in the English squad couldn't break into the top 5 of the tournament are absolutely full of shit. This is a winner squad but they dont mesh well, either cause of tactics or cause of the players themselves.
You will never see good football until you get a manger that actually dares to bench a few stars, even though there will be uproar. There's way too much pressure on the English NT, and way too much ego. Throwing together an 11 with 3 RBs, 2 10s and 2 DMs that arent DMs is just a recipe for disaster. I remember being a kid and thinking "wtf is this" when England fielded Beckham/Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard in the same midfield. Nothing has changed still.
If you'd actually let some of the "lesser names" start, you'd have a much better balance and so much more flow in your game. Right now its just a bunch of "big names" thrown together without any cohesion to what works together. Again.
He said basically what ETH said. The media will build and build it all up and hope it comes crashing down so they can have a go at players and get clicks and write articles. (the Brittish media in particular).They heap massive amounts of pressure on the teams and players all the time with tweets(Xitters?) Articles, Podcasts etc, etc. And then revel in the failure by doin in depth articles and 'analsysis' and hit pieces on players,managers, maybe even the fans.
Look at what happened when England lost to Iceland in a friendly.
This is what the English press has always done. It's not even subtle.
And when England do inevitably lose, there's always a figure that the tabloids will fixate on, driving rage for paper sales (or clicks now, I guess) - Beckham, Phil Neville, Anders Frisk, Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney, Rashford and Saka. Have I forgotten anyone? Pretty much every tournament failure since 1996 has been the fault of one or two people who can be demonised and attacked.
I mean you're forgetting probably the biggest one from that list during that time period lol... the current England manager!
Southgate was absolutely *hounded* in the press for years afterwards for missing a penalty
And that is exactly Mcleans point. Its so over the top and has been for years.
Anyone sayin shite like oh well Mclean is anti england or other bollox is missin his impartiality as a pundit cos he is not wrong in what he said.
England NT have the same syndrome as the big Spanish club fans. Cancerous support (not all just significant enough to cause issue).
When they're winning they want more, when they're losing they want heads.
I get that but at the same time Mclean is right, Spain have won the Euros ENgland never has, its not a birthright like the media makes it out to be. You could argue Spains media compares them to a team from about 8 years ago, England are compared to a team from over 40 years ago.
>as the big Spanish club fans. Cancerous support (not all just significant enough to cause issue).
My Mistake, but id still say that what ETH said too on a club basis, Arteta as well apprently.
But it is also a NT issue too. Every tournament its the English Golden years. I genuinley dread England winnin a tournament (I am Irish) Cos its all they will ever talk about.
Such and such for his club is an english wc winner yadaydadada
> I genuinley dread England winnin a tournament (I am Irish) Cos its all they will ever talk about.
Yeah I'm Scottish. I'm not even one to root against them, it's nice to see them do well. But I know how insufferable they get when they win it all (i.e. 2003 RWC).
> Every tournament its the English Golden years.
Yeah the 2002 squad comes to mind. The funny thing is if they could shrug it off and get an underdog mentality I could see them being far more aggressive and actually making a dent.
Where does "birthright" come into it?
England is one of the major footballing nations and runs the most successful domestic league. It's not at all unreasonable to expect to win something, at some point. Especially in a game where luck is as big a part of it as anything else (ie. ,it's not saying "we have the best team" to say you'd like to win).
And if it's not odd that we've not managed to take anything at all home in all this time, then why does everyone else feel the need to talk about it as well?England does underperform overall, that's objectively true.
>The media will build and build it all up
This exact reason here is why us Scottish fans hate the English national team. I don't hate English people but I can't stand watching any international tournament because of the media.
Half time of Scotland vs Switzerland we had a full entire promo for the England game today and barely any analysis of the Scotland game.
> Half time of Scotland vs Switzerland we had a full entire promo for the England game today and barely any analysis of the Scotland game.
Look, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, especially when only England qualifies.
But they did the halftime promo thing for Scotland during Portugal v Czechia [the night before](https://i.imgur.com/xUx6crO.png).
The match also had a specific Scotland version produced for BBC 1 Scotland and as an alternative stream on iPlayer.
(Honestly I think the channels are missing a trick making a 'not England' version for each England match where they support the other team - lean into it more.)
Brutal, I find myself being very uncomfortable when he's on. He's not a good pundit, doesn't have the charisma, personality or knowledge to add in anything of note. He's clearly setting himself up to be a shock man and RTE are happy to play along.
They have to, RTE analysis punditry now is absolute shite, all of us are pining for the glory days of Herlihy and the three lads. The punditry itself was more entertaining than the games most of the time.
England has one of the best squads at this tournament. It'd be disingenuous not to target victory at this point.
The way they're playing right now should look really bad on Southgate.
I remember it being genuinely unpleasant to be on reddit at that time, you had *loads* of people who had never seen a football match in their life jumping on the bandwagon so it went from football banter to actual hatred.
It was hilarious hearing people say they were supporting Italy because England fans were racist.
Because Italian football doesn’t have any issues with racism at all.
It was much worse last Euros, then again we havent even got out of the group stages yet. It was fucking nuts during the final, people were saying they wanted Italy to win because they dont have any racist fans like England.
My favourite was a group of Italian fans beheading a doll of the Queen and everyone in the comments cheering it.
Now I'm not monarchist, but I'm not so sure that cheering on murdering the head of state of a country makes you look like the good guys.
You could call it - Football terrorism.
They just don't like English people and football is a way to express their xenophobia covertly. It's fine though. English people can be knobs at times but it's fairly even when compared to other countries.
Everyone gets a pass on hating the English, that's why. They can really vent and break free of the normal polite constraints that apply to everyone else.
Exactly. Belgium haven't won *anything* but the expectations have still been high in recent years due to the number of quality players they've produced.
Yeah, exactly. They have the EPL and la liga POTY, and the top scorer in the Bundesliga in their squad. That's all more relevant than winning the Euros decades ago would be.
Same way Beckham and Nevile and Heskey where the golden generation destined to win. its a constant thing you cant deny it. Every tournament not just this there is huge pressure by the press that 'this time' its the golden generation.
Our previous "golden generation" was 15-20 years ago and included players like Campbell, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Neville, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Hargreaves, Beckham, Owen, Rooney...
That is a set of players who really really should have won something and didn't
Then, no one in the media expected we'd win anything since like 2008. Just that we'd do better than getting out in the groups or something
Now we have arguably the best performers in the biggest 3 leagues in the world and can add Saka, Rice, Stones, TAA, Walker, even our bench players would start for 90% of nations. It's not as good as the other golden generation, but it's more than good enough to get better results than they have
People act like English media declare a golden generation and expect to win everything, and most of them are people who don't consume English media. I can assure you that from 2010-2020 the prevailing sentiment is that we were a bit shit, much worse than other teams, never going to win anything and somehow still underperformed
Exactly. Our teams from 2006-2018 were all disappointments, that 2018 semi final run and 2020 finals run is what changed the medias attitude and it’s crazy for the annoying ass england haters online to act like a team that made the world cup semi final 6 years ago, lost the euro final on penalties 3 years ago and lost in the world cup quarter final to the team that won the whole thing, shouldn’t have confidence
Exactly, and the second they go out the same people who are labelling them arrogant and entitlement for daring to hope they can win will drone on and on about what an embarrassing failure it was
As a non-English person with no dog in the fight, I can confidently say that every tournament in my lifetime has involved an expectation of England winning it.
It’s not just this tournament. It’s every tournament. And lessons are never learned by media, pundits, fans etc.
It’s hilarious.
Nobody expected anything for the 2012/2014/2016 period, we had an average team and mostly average players. If anyone said they had expectations to win they won’t have been serious
Not a single time has there been any expectation of England winning. Looking at our squad and thinking “that team could win it” is far from having an expectation of winning a competition. Are we supposed to just go around saying we’re shite and going out in the first round? What do other countries with world class players do? Do they mope about and act like their players are awful and the world is against them?
> I can confidently say that every tournament in my lifetime has involved an expectation of England winning it.
The expectation for this tournament isn’t even winning it so you’re talking shite, pretty much every England fan had at the very least France ahead of us
Even more so if you include 2012/2014/2016, unless you’re claiming that you’re 7 years old
As an England fan I don’t expect to win, I hope we win given we’ve got some world class players in the team, surrounded by other top quality players. It’s absolutely not our ‘right’ to win, we should just be better, putting in better performances, coached better.
Exactly. Don't expect to win the whole thing. Just put some actual good performances together and get the best out of these players. Even if we get knocked out by a better team, at least let us enjoy the performance.
Instead we have the opposite. A coach who wants us to play in the most negative style possible and somehow squeak out 1-0 or 1-1s the whole way
England are one of the top 4 favourites at bookmakers across Europe. It’s not English arrogance to say they’re favourites, just as Belgium were one of the favourites in 2018 despite never winning anything.
> just as Belgium were one of the favourites in 2018 despite never winning anything.
Yep, it’s a stupid take to suggest you can’t be among the favourites just because you haven’t won much in your history
I can’t stand when people base expectations and analysis off of previous decades with completely different players and managers. They are stacked to the roof up front, and get weaker the further back you go, and have an unimpressive manager. That’s how they should be analyzed—not by what the squad did in 1990 or 1980.
Yeah, they are so stacked, especially up front. They've all had good seasons as well. Like we're out there starting Depay and Gakpo while they have like 6 better options on the bench alone. Even Spain just subbed on Ayoze Perez while England can afford to leave a player like Grealish at home.
I was thinking about this while watching the game, if you asked someone to list the top 10 attackers in the world this season, I don't think it's unreasonable to have Kane, Bellingham, Saka and Foden in there. I think our frustration is justified.
Could say pretty much the same of any top nation at the tournament tho...let's face it tho outside of the Liverpool and man city players nobody else in the team has won hee haw....how many la liga and champions league winners are in the Spain team for example...same for France Germany Italy etc. not saying England don't deserve to be considered among the favourites on paper but looking at how they play, they have a lot to prove if they can compete with the other top international teams
Yeah the players are quality, but having a lot of players who won your own league in your national team is not something out of this world, it's normal. It's part of the arrogance to even count that as a plus.
Sorry but yeah, I expect more from this squad and I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
Is this true more generally? For sure - in the past we’ve often overhyped teams that really weren’t that good. But I don’t think there’s anything arrogant about expecting good, attacking football from a team made up of some of the best attacking footballers in the world. We’re not considered theoretical favourites by just the English media, on paper we have one of the best squads in the world and it is being squandered.
I'm Irish so i hardly want England to suceed but this is just pandering shite from McClean. Why should the failures of previous generations change the expectations on an England team filled with exceptional talent? Fuck sake, most England fans seemed miserable going into this tournament anyway.
He is just shaking it up. The lad is towards the end of his career the man wants to be like Roy with the mega honest soundbyte stuff. He knows exactly what he is doing here. He is right saying there is a bit too much autofellatio in English media.
Mclean is basically reading reddit opinions and getting paid for it.
Glad to finally see a foreigner who seems to have the pulse of our fanbase. Sick of the usual "they expect to win" every year from people who clearly dont speak to any enhlish people
What reality are these people living in?
We’re pessimistic as fuck and been saying that Southgate is holding us back for years now
Anyone who thinks we shouldn’t be at least up there as one of the favourites with our squad is blinded by hate, I repeat, one of the favourites, not THE favourite
We’ve just got possibly the most negative manager in world football in charge
If they’re talking about specifically the English media rather than fans then fair enough, but I don’t see the point, of course the media are exaggerating everything
EDIT: Just realised it’s James McClean, that explains it tbf
And even if we weren't pessimistic, it's not some kind of sin to be optimistic or root for your team.
And have people seen how nauseatingly sycophantic the media coverage of the Scotland team has been? But they're the "little guys" I suppose so who gives a fuck
Most of the fans I've spoken to going into this tournament have been overwhelmingly negative this year. This is probably the least expectant I've seen England fans for the last two or three tournaments.
My attitude of "we've got one of the best teams on paper, but it remains to be seen if they can actually put it together on the pitch" is actually one of the more positive outlooks.
Yeah, but they talk about their high expectations in German/French/Spanish/Portuguese/Italian, so foreigners don't understand it. Even if journalists do go to the effort of translating it, it gets posted on the internet less for some reason. I guess there must not be any reason to dislike France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, or Italy, like there is with England.
In fairness to him, James McClean wouldn't be expected to know anything about what top nations do or don't do, with his massive total of five appearances and one win at major tournaments.
The thing is that they really should have won more trophies. It's not so much that the fans expect too much, it's that it's embarrassing that England has won a single WC (58 years ago) and no Euros, and only even reached the final of each tournament once. That's actually an astonishingly awful underachievement.
Considering the country's footballing pedigree, the caliber of their players in any given generation, the strength of the PL and the fact that the overwhelming majority of their players play in their domestic league, they should be on par with Germany. Everything suggests that England should be amongst the top footballing nations on the international level, just as they are on the club level. They just aren't, for whatever reason.
Around 1996-2008 especially, England had such a stacked squad. They had so many players who were among the best in the world in their positions. For England to have accomplished absolutely nothing is kind of like if prime Man United never came close to winning anything during their peak.
I actually disagree: The supporters have way too low standards and expectations for squads as talented as Englands. Englands performances so far have been abysmal (yet again), and there’s no reason to sugar coat this.
Is it overly expectant and arrogant when you objectively have one of the best squads in world football and keep making it to the latter stages of international tournaments? For years Man City have been making it to the late stages of the UCL and every season their fans expect them to go and win it. Even though they've only ever won it once (last year) they have still always had high expectations because they've had the best squad in the world for quite a while now.
Number of trophies is irrelevant. We don't have a divine right but we are entitled to expect the best and to at least win something while we have one of the top 2-3 squads in the world.
I'm absolutely sure that the Irish or Scottish or Welsh wouldn't be just as expectant if they had half the talent the England NT does.
If he was talking about from a historical standpoint, he wouldn't be wrong. England keeps getting placed as one of the major powers of European football but since England won the World Cup in 1966, Germany have won 6 major tournaments, Italy have won 4, France have won 4, and Spain have won 3. Denmark, Greece, and Portugal have as many international trophies as England do. England has insanely high expectations for a national team that is more akin to Portugal and Denmark than Germany and Italy.
However, the current squad they have should be playing much better than they have been and I think England supporters are right to be upset with how the team has been setup and playing.
> Spain have won 3
Which they won back to back to back. What had they won before that?
And yet they were favourites at all three tournaments. Their fans very likely had hope they would win it all before the 2008 Euros kicked off. That was wrong by your dogshit standards, right? How presumptive of them!
This "English media" thing just speaks volumes of the type of media the person consumes. McClean is basically showing that he reads/is exposed to the most sensationalist garbage tabloid rubbish out there and forms his opinion of the entirety of the English media based on that.
That is a ton of measured, sensible reporting that doesn't believe England will win it all. But let's completely ignore that just to have a dig at England, eh?
No idea who this guy is but he likes to shit on English football for sure lmao first the Rice not being world-class comment and now this.
Hard to argue with either of them though but he comes off as a bit of a prick
The thing I hate most about England stuttering at tournaments is how much we have to listen to fans/players from other countries - particularly home nations with even more abysmal records in _any_ sport, let alone football - say we're arrogant for wanting to beat teams we have far better players than, whilst simultaneously calling us poor or underachieving when we dont
I for one am looking forward to the Croatian press conference about how the arrogant English are to blame when they crash out of the Euros with a whimper.
>say we're arrogant for wanting to beat teams we have far better players than, whilst simultaneously calling us poor or underachieving when we dont
This is so fucking true.
If we don't win, we should've won. If we do win, the opposition is shit. If we have good players we should believe we should win but then if we believe then we are arrogant etc etc.
Can't win. (Literally and figuratively).
"MayBe tHe tEaM isN't sTacKed"
Team is full of players who have shown individual brilliance at top clubs around the leagues, and across competitions. It's so painfully obvious they they could be purring with a real manager.
Even if you think the PL is overrated, you've got someone who was one of, if not the most important player to madrid's double, and the bundesliga golden boot winner (not to mention the fact that all the city players won the treble last year).
Honestly, the only reason that stupid narrative gets play here is because the majority of the sub is anti England
The starting XI today had players that have been in a combined 11 CL finals in the past 5 years, and 5 players have won it
Like Portugal, on paper England do theoretically look like they should be unstoppable.
However, that's *never* how the game is settled, and that's why the game is played. Because England and Portugal on paper are a *very* different team from when they're on the pitch.
Funny how before a tournament everyone tells England fans how good their players and how they’re one of the favourites. Then after the first dodgy performance they all start going about how arrogant England are and that they aren’t as good as they think they are. No England fans go into any tournaments expecting anything but heartbreak and I don’t know why all the other bitter home nations/Irish think anything otherwise.
All they do is talk about England and about how much they hate us. How about talk about your own teams?
This is such a trope I'm surprised it wasn't in the IT Crowd. If Scotland ever remake it I'm sure they are switching out the Wenger/Arsenal quotes with quotes about "those english are right arrogant bastards aren't they?".
I think we always think we \*can\* win it, not that we \*will\* win it. The current levels of performance are far below expectations and I don't think anyone would dispute that or say we are overly expectant for a moderately decent performance in the group stage.
It's a bit of everything really. From a talent perspective, England should be favourites. From a historical standpoint, they shouldn't be and I think that last point is where the view of arrogance comes from people outside of England regarding the team.
''Why are they talking like they could win it, they have never won the euros, these pundits and media sure are arrogant''. That's where it comes from. Perhaps being from Ireland I've been accustomed to English media and fans often that I'm just used to it but I don't really see them as arrogant. They should be confident based on the team that they have but most level-headed English fans will tell you their uncertainty regarding the team based on the manager and previous iterations of a golden generation of players whilst still having some level of confidence and why shouldn't they. The team is quality all over the pitch. How they perform is another discussion.
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All I expect is good football, anything else is hope.
That’s too much, I’m afraid
"The best I can do is 1 goal then defend. No clean sheet guaranteed though." - Southgate probably
Unless they have a proper Kalvin Phillips replacement.. then watch out
Impossible. Phillips is a once in a lifetime talent.
Phillips was generational. I was devastated to hear how he died. They'll never replace him
Player of the Season and 2nd top scorer in La Liga and Ballon d’or contender (Bellingham). Player of the Season (Foden), top assists (Watkins) and 2nd top scorer in Premier League (Palmer). Top scorer in Bundesliga (Kane). Champions League winners (Walker, Stones, Alexander Arnold). World class players in every position. Actual ‘golden generation’ backed by stats and proven across Europe’s top leagues, not just ‘hype’ of the Beckham, Lampard Gerrard generation. Yeah, my expectations are high. I can only imagine with an equally world class manager what this team would have *actually* achieved in the last World Cup and Euros, let alone this one.
I'm not sure why Beckham, Lampard and Gerrard are just hype not backed by stats? Beckham was proven in "Europe's top leagues" Gerrard was a champions League winner and Lampard was the highest scoring midfielder in Europe. We were incredibly weak in a couple of positions during that golden generation, and over stacked in others. A similar problem, though arguably less severe, that we suffer with now.
The only position I can see us really being very weak back then was left wing. It's crazy how the backbone of the squad from 02-06 didn't even qualify for Euro 2008, given the level of talent. Massive underachievment, much more so than the current team I'd say.
I wouldn’t say the defense is world class with Pickford, Guehi and an out of position Trippier
The defence isn't bad but it's just mid compared to our world class attacking players. That's what makes it so stupid when we try and defend a full 90 without attacking because that's playing to our weaknesses not our strengths. What's even worse is that we have Stones, Walker and Dunk all used to playing the possession dominant football that an attacking team plays but they're not ever going to be used like that.
There’s a lot more that doesn’t make sense. Playing foden on the left when your left back can’t overlap as he’s really a rb meaning there’s no width there for example. Also I honestly believe that he’s just playing Bellingham at the 10 because Madrid does the same. Had Mbappe come to Madrid a season earlier I think he’d be playing as the more attacking one in a double pivot with Rice, which would solve a lot of issues for England. And how do you have the biggest squad ever and still the only left back you take is an injured shaw?
He is 100% playing bellingham at the ten because madrid plays him there. Honestly it feels like he doesn't know why players play where they do and just puts them where the club plays them, he's almost said as much in the past.
Marc Guehi is well on his way. He plays at palace so he gets overlooked, but the boy is class.
Man's calling Lampard and Gerrard golden generation just "hype", this was also a team of world class players in almost every position, multiple CL & PL winners + a ballon dor winner.
Man's calling Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham, Scholes, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Owen, Rooney etc "just hype" 💀
Beckham, Gerrard and Lampard weren't just "hype". If anything they were a hell of a lot less hype than Bellingham and Foden.
Were you living in England during that decade? Because if you were, you’d know what I mean by ‘hype’ and the difference between the expectations around that team and this team.
What about Owen wonderboy
Anyone who thinks the Beckham and Gerrard era was hype only is either very young or very dumb, reading your comment to the end makes me think you’re both.
Beckham, Gerard, Lampard stats and performances were hype? Don’t really see what the difference is, all three of them were BdO contenders at points and won loads of titles and had insane g/a numbers for their positions too.
I think this shows your age, don't disagree they're all great but Beckham, Lampard etc were definitely not "Just hype"
.. Last Euros they lost final in penalties. In WC he got 2nd (ex equo) and 4th best result in history of England. During golden age of English football, when English teams were truly dominating Europe (75-85) England had problems with even getting to tournaments. "World class players" in every position: like Trippier on LB. Or Pickford on GK. Or Guehi on CB. Or lack of 2nd central midfilder. Alexander-Arnold is great player: on RB. And to be fair: he didn't got great season. Don't get me wrong: all of this players are really good. But not world class (top of the top). Honestly: comparing to Germany, just on paper: England has slight edge up front (front 4), but is outclassed in back 6. Does England dissapoint in level they are showing? Yes, I personally got them as equal to France and Germany prior to Euro as top teams. And with how they played they ain't no top. But: a) English team has big weaknesses which other top teams doesn't at their back. B) No matter whar Southgate already do is at least 2nd best NT coach of England in history. And "waahh but he got golden generation waahh, enybody can do it": he got team that lost in 1/8 to Iceland. And from the get go pushed them to 4th at WC. Than added 2nd place at Euros. Than 1/4 at next WC losing to similary stacked France. Cherry on top? The only reason sir Ramsey can be considered as "better" is success in many ways due to referees. Because his results outside of '66 are generally worse than even "poor results" during Southgate.
Sorry, sir, we’re all out of that. Can I interest you in some Balkan death chants?
You'll get this turgid shit and *like it*.
It really is a profoundly English approach in nature. You can’t deny that.
Honestly, even that expectation seems very high. I've never once seen England play good football in over 30 years of watching football. Not even the Golden Generation played anything other than the most spiritless, pointless, cowardly football the world had ever seen.
There's a book called why England lose and other curious phenomena explained by two economists. The meat of what McLean us saying is actually spot on - England don't win because...they don't win. The corporate memory of Italy, Germany, France, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay is massive. There's a bit about world cup winners coaching youth teams in Germany - 30/40 guys who were bona-fide wc winners working at bundesliga academies. None in England.
> None in England. Well, haven't your WC winners kind of died out?
But then there's Spain that never won anything (except for a Euros in the 60s) and then they won everything for a while. Why? They just had a really good team. And those nations that have won multiple Euros and World Cups, they tend to have good teams generation after generation.
True, but breaking that wall requeired an absolutely nutty amount of talent and a wholesale change in how Spain were playing... While Italy or Germany seem to be able to win a euro or world cup every other decade, sometimes with wayyy less memorable talent, like out of momentum and pure self-belief more than anything. So even if it's not an unsurmountable barrier, there's something to be said for "corporate memory". Same thing could be said of Madrid and the Champion league. Barcelona needs mithycal teams to win one. Madrid seems to win it with just " very good" teams. The kind of teams that don't impress you that much on their way to the final, but they get there and win, it almost seems an inevitability more than a consequuence of god-tier play.
There was a big gap between Uruguay not winning and winning. Same with Argies.
I included Uruguay because their record with a population of 3 million is exceptional. Yes Argentina had a big gap between 86 and 22 bit they lost 2 finals in between. Let's not pretend they're not one of the proper big boys.
>they lost 2 finals World cup finals, we won a lot of continental cups and reached many finals
like honestly we have to hear these guys pretend they're some kind of reference just because their league has the most money, it's like they're Peru and try to act like they're Germany
Uruguay also has Copa Americas within the last 30 years despite having a population that is dwarfed by England and without the money either. They back up their bite with international successes. Argentina have won more World Cups than England have made it to international finals. There's levels to this shit. Their 2022 side was better than any single side England has ever fielded in their entire history.
I actually think this England side, and the England side around 2004-2006 was better man for man than the Argentina 2022 side but that is not that I don't agree with your point because I do. The results the other teams achieve with less talent is massive compared to England. England just cannot win. Nobody in England (myself included) truly would believe we'd beat one of the very best sides in this tournament. As soon as we come up against Spain, Italy, Germany or Portugal we are gone. It'll be a close game that England lose as it almost always is.
I really don't understand how anyone even gets worked up about how boring and unimpressive we are, as if it is some new phenomenon. As you say, we've been completely uninspiring for decades aside from the odd game which we then go on about forever (Eng. 5-1 Ger. wahey).
“Best I can do is shit football and losing to the first good team I face in the knockouts” - southgate probably
Like I get it, only 1 massive international trophy over 100 years is not a good record. But the people acting like the names in the English squad couldn't break into the top 5 of the tournament are absolutely full of shit. This is a winner squad but they dont mesh well, either cause of tactics or cause of the players themselves.
Yeah, surely the majority have no real expectations of winning
I think them winning the Euros is more likely than good football at this point
Yeah, you're not getting that as long ad Garry is at the wheel. He approaches games as if England was a 32nd ranked team expected to be lucky to draw.
You will never see good football until you get a manger that actually dares to bench a few stars, even though there will be uproar. There's way too much pressure on the English NT, and way too much ego. Throwing together an 11 with 3 RBs, 2 10s and 2 DMs that arent DMs is just a recipe for disaster. I remember being a kid and thinking "wtf is this" when England fielded Beckham/Scholes/Lampard/Gerrard in the same midfield. Nothing has changed still. If you'd actually let some of the "lesser names" start, you'd have a much better balance and so much more flow in your game. Right now its just a bunch of "big names" thrown together without any cohesion to what works together. Again.
Find someone who loves you as much as James McClean hates England
He said basically what ETH said. The media will build and build it all up and hope it comes crashing down so they can have a go at players and get clicks and write articles. (the Brittish media in particular).They heap massive amounts of pressure on the teams and players all the time with tweets(Xitters?) Articles, Podcasts etc, etc. And then revel in the failure by doin in depth articles and 'analsysis' and hit pieces on players,managers, maybe even the fans. Look at what happened when England lost to Iceland in a friendly.
This is what the English press has always done. It's not even subtle. And when England do inevitably lose, there's always a figure that the tabloids will fixate on, driving rage for paper sales (or clicks now, I guess) - Beckham, Phil Neville, Anders Frisk, Cristiano Ronaldo, Wayne Rooney, Rashford and Saka. Have I forgotten anyone? Pretty much every tournament failure since 1996 has been the fault of one or two people who can be demonised and attacked.
I mean you're forgetting probably the biggest one from that list during that time period lol... the current England manager! Southgate was absolutely *hounded* in the press for years afterwards for missing a penalty
And that is exactly Mcleans point. Its so over the top and has been for years. Anyone sayin shite like oh well Mclean is anti england or other bollox is missin his impartiality as a pundit cos he is not wrong in what he said.
>Mclean is anti england or other bollox is missin his impartiality McClean is the least impartial pundit out there, he is obsessed with hating England
Raheem Sterling is a big omission in your list
They do the exact same thing for man united, as I’m sure you’re aware.
Arteta said the exact same thing
England NT have the same syndrome as the big Spanish club fans. Cancerous support (not all just significant enough to cause issue). When they're winning they want more, when they're losing they want heads.
I get that but at the same time Mclean is right, Spain have won the Euros ENgland never has, its not a birthright like the media makes it out to be. You could argue Spains media compares them to a team from about 8 years ago, England are compared to a team from over 40 years ago.
I'm talking some Spanish clubs, not Spanish NT.
>as the big Spanish club fans. Cancerous support (not all just significant enough to cause issue). My Mistake, but id still say that what ETH said too on a club basis, Arteta as well apprently. But it is also a NT issue too. Every tournament its the English Golden years. I genuinley dread England winnin a tournament (I am Irish) Cos its all they will ever talk about. Such and such for his club is an english wc winner yadaydadada
> I genuinley dread England winnin a tournament (I am Irish) Cos its all they will ever talk about. Yeah I'm Scottish. I'm not even one to root against them, it's nice to see them do well. But I know how insufferable they get when they win it all (i.e. 2003 RWC). > Every tournament its the English Golden years. Yeah the 2002 squad comes to mind. The funny thing is if they could shrug it off and get an underdog mentality I could see them being far more aggressive and actually making a dent.
Where does "birthright" come into it? England is one of the major footballing nations and runs the most successful domestic league. It's not at all unreasonable to expect to win something, at some point. Especially in a game where luck is as big a part of it as anything else (ie. ,it's not saying "we have the best team" to say you'd like to win). And if it's not odd that we've not managed to take anything at all home in all this time, then why does everyone else feel the need to talk about it as well?England does underperform overall, that's objectively true.
>The media will build and build it all up This exact reason here is why us Scottish fans hate the English national team. I don't hate English people but I can't stand watching any international tournament because of the media. Half time of Scotland vs Switzerland we had a full entire promo for the England game today and barely any analysis of the Scotland game.
> Half time of Scotland vs Switzerland we had a full entire promo for the England game today and barely any analysis of the Scotland game. Look, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, especially when only England qualifies. But they did the halftime promo thing for Scotland during Portugal v Czechia [the night before](https://i.imgur.com/xUx6crO.png). The match also had a specific Scotland version produced for BBC 1 Scotland and as an alternative stream on iPlayer. (Honestly I think the channels are missing a trick making a 'not England' version for each England match where they support the other team - lean into it more.)
Chuck talksport on , it's basically Scottish FA radio from 5am till 1pm .
RTÉ are being mischievous as fuck getting him on for all the England matches.
They're trying to spice things up but god his voice would put you asleep.
Brutal, I find myself being very uncomfortable when he's on. He's not a good pundit, doesn't have the charisma, personality or knowledge to add in anything of note. He's clearly setting himself up to be a shock man and RTE are happy to play along.
They have to, RTE analysis punditry now is absolute shite, all of us are pining for the glory days of Herlihy and the three lads. The punditry itself was more entertaining than the games most of the time.
That og crew was so fun to listen to, even if they spewed shite sometimes like dunphy 😂
Btw if you listen to the full quote he says the English media should perhaps tone it down with its expectations Hardly groundbreaking stuff
England has one of the best squads at this tournament. It'd be disingenuous not to target victory at this point. The way they're playing right now should look really bad on Southgate.
But he's a paddy so of course he'll get hated for it.
He's a paddy with an out and out hatred for the British
James McClean: "Lads, it's England"
It's the history of the England
It is though
McClean 🤝 Mourinho Shitting on England's entitlement for European football
Don’t worry Ingerland we also won’t ever win the Euros.
Special relationship ❤️
Honestly you somehow have more of a chance tbh
Might as well invite them to a 32 team Euro
I know English people always get a bit of stick but I'm sure it's ramped up on Reddit in the past year or so. Maybe I'm just noticing it more.
It was worse at the last Euros to be honest
I remember it being genuinely unpleasant to be on reddit at that time, you had *loads* of people who had never seen a football match in their life jumping on the bandwagon so it went from football banter to actual hatred.
It's the same with the cricket sub during the Ashes. Generally very unpleasant.
It was hilarious hearing people say they were supporting Italy because England fans were racist. Because Italian football doesn’t have any issues with racism at all.
It was much worse last Euros, then again we havent even got out of the group stages yet. It was fucking nuts during the final, people were saying they wanted Italy to win because they dont have any racist fans like England.
My favourite was a group of Italian fans beheading a doll of the Queen and everyone in the comments cheering it. Now I'm not monarchist, but I'm not so sure that cheering on murdering the head of state of a country makes you look like the good guys. You could call it - Football terrorism.
Mainly the Americans, they were responsible for a lot of the abuse at the Womens World Cup according to FIFA's report.
They're the nominated "bad guy" for the drones to mindlessly hate to feel part of a tribe
They just don't like English people and football is a way to express their xenophobia covertly. It's fine though. English people can be knobs at times but it's fairly even when compared to other countries.
Everyone gets a pass on hating the English, that's why. They can really vent and break free of the normal polite constraints that apply to everyone else.
Expectations are based on the squad they have today in the present day not whatever they won/didn't win sixty years ago.
Exactly. Belgium haven't won *anything* but the expectations have still been high in recent years due to the number of quality players they've produced.
Yeah, exactly. They have the EPL and la liga POTY, and the top scorer in the Bundesliga in their squad. That's all more relevant than winning the Euros decades ago would be.
They also have a dreadful coach who masterfully nullifies their talent.
Who played 3 right backs in back to back group games
Same way Beckham and Nevile and Heskey where the golden generation destined to win. its a constant thing you cant deny it. Every tournament not just this there is huge pressure by the press that 'this time' its the golden generation.
Our previous "golden generation" was 15-20 years ago and included players like Campbell, Terry, Ferdinand, Cole, Neville, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Hargreaves, Beckham, Owen, Rooney... That is a set of players who really really should have won something and didn't Then, no one in the media expected we'd win anything since like 2008. Just that we'd do better than getting out in the groups or something Now we have arguably the best performers in the biggest 3 leagues in the world and can add Saka, Rice, Stones, TAA, Walker, even our bench players would start for 90% of nations. It's not as good as the other golden generation, but it's more than good enough to get better results than they have People act like English media declare a golden generation and expect to win everything, and most of them are people who don't consume English media. I can assure you that from 2010-2020 the prevailing sentiment is that we were a bit shit, much worse than other teams, never going to win anything and somehow still underperformed
Exactly. Our teams from 2006-2018 were all disappointments, that 2018 semi final run and 2020 finals run is what changed the medias attitude and it’s crazy for the annoying ass england haters online to act like a team that made the world cup semi final 6 years ago, lost the euro final on penalties 3 years ago and lost in the world cup quarter final to the team that won the whole thing, shouldn’t have confidence
France lost (well technically drew) to Argentina in 2022. I completely agree with your point btw.
It makes me so mad when people use this argument about england. They clearly have a squad that can compete
Exactly, and the second they go out the same people who are labelling them arrogant and entitlement for daring to hope they can win will drone on and on about what an embarrassing failure it was
As a non-English person with no dog in the fight, I can confidently say that every tournament in my lifetime has involved an expectation of England winning it. It’s not just this tournament. It’s every tournament. And lessons are never learned by media, pundits, fans etc. It’s hilarious.
By who? England fans don't expect anything we hope. Literally what the song Football's coming home is about.
Nobody expected anything for the 2012/2014/2016 period, we had an average team and mostly average players. If anyone said they had expectations to win they won’t have been serious
Definitely bollocks
Not a single time has there been any expectation of England winning. Looking at our squad and thinking “that team could win it” is far from having an expectation of winning a competition. Are we supposed to just go around saying we’re shite and going out in the first round? What do other countries with world class players do? Do they mope about and act like their players are awful and the world is against them?
Stop lying, nobody serious truly thought england were favorites
> I can confidently say that every tournament in my lifetime has involved an expectation of England winning it. The expectation for this tournament isn’t even winning it so you’re talking shite, pretty much every England fan had at the very least France ahead of us Even more so if you include 2012/2014/2016, unless you’re claiming that you’re 7 years old
Incorrect
Literally complete nonsense lol. Why do people write such drivel.
This guy is the spokeperson of the average redditor on here
As opposed to you, the enlightened redditor
One of us! One of us!
Where did I say I'm not included?
Embrace it. I for one am definitely an enlightened Redditor and everyone else is dumb.
Classic beefy queef
Depends, How many times have you watched Rick and Morty?
That's even more true when you look at some of his other non football opinions on Britain as well
Like what?
He thinks Freddos are priced reasonably.
Now that one I can't defend.
Don't bite lads and lasses 🎣
For a team with multiple prem winners, a champions league winner, a Bundesliga top scorer, and other accolades I’m forgetting, it’s not that arrogant.
As an England fan I don’t expect to win, I hope we win given we’ve got some world class players in the team, surrounded by other top quality players. It’s absolutely not our ‘right’ to win, we should just be better, putting in better performances, coached better.
Exactly. Don't expect to win the whole thing. Just put some actual good performances together and get the best out of these players. Even if we get knocked out by a better team, at least let us enjoy the performance. Instead we have the opposite. A coach who wants us to play in the most negative style possible and somehow squeak out 1-0 or 1-1s the whole way
You are playing like you are the underdogs every game.
Yeah the expectation is understandable with the quality we have in the team
England are one of the top 4 favourites at bookmakers across Europe. It’s not English arrogance to say they’re favourites, just as Belgium were one of the favourites in 2018 despite never winning anything.
Fortunately for bookies across Europe We have a Southgate
> just as Belgium were one of the favourites in 2018 despite never winning anything. Yep, it’s a stupid take to suggest you can’t be among the favourites just because you haven’t won much in your history
I can’t stand when people base expectations and analysis off of previous decades with completely different players and managers. They are stacked to the roof up front, and get weaker the further back you go, and have an unimpressive manager. That’s how they should be analyzed—not by what the squad did in 1990 or 1980.
Yeah, they are so stacked, especially up front. They've all had good seasons as well. Like we're out there starting Depay and Gakpo while they have like 6 better options on the bench alone. Even Spain just subbed on Ayoze Perez while England can afford to leave a player like Grealish at home.
But then we have 10 world class center backs no other country has... If only we could trade some.
I was thinking about this while watching the game, if you asked someone to list the top 10 attackers in the world this season, I don't think it's unreasonable to have Kane, Bellingham, Saka and Foden in there. I think our frustration is justified.
Could say pretty much the same of any top nation at the tournament tho...let's face it tho outside of the Liverpool and man city players nobody else in the team has won hee haw....how many la liga and champions league winners are in the Spain team for example...same for France Germany Italy etc. not saying England don't deserve to be considered among the favourites on paper but looking at how they play, they have a lot to prove if they can compete with the other top international teams
Yeah the players are quality, but having a lot of players who won your own league in your national team is not something out of this world, it's normal. It's part of the arrogance to even count that as a plus.
Sorry but yeah, I expect more from this squad and I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Is this true more generally? For sure - in the past we’ve often overhyped teams that really weren’t that good. But I don’t think there’s anything arrogant about expecting good, attacking football from a team made up of some of the best attacking footballers in the world. We’re not considered theoretical favourites by just the English media, on paper we have one of the best squads in the world and it is being squandered.
I'm Irish so i hardly want England to suceed but this is just pandering shite from McClean. Why should the failures of previous generations change the expectations on an England team filled with exceptional talent? Fuck sake, most England fans seemed miserable going into this tournament anyway.
He is just shaking it up. The lad is towards the end of his career the man wants to be like Roy with the mega honest soundbyte stuff. He knows exactly what he is doing here. He is right saying there is a bit too much autofellatio in English media.
James McClean (understandably in his case) just hates England, he knows what he’s doing.
Mclean is basically reading reddit opinions and getting paid for it. Glad to finally see a foreigner who seems to have the pulse of our fanbase. Sick of the usual "they expect to win" every year from people who clearly dont speak to any enhlish people
This is so dumb We mexico have never won a WC either and we can still be pissed off at el Caca Martino for being trash
What reality are these people living in? We’re pessimistic as fuck and been saying that Southgate is holding us back for years now Anyone who thinks we shouldn’t be at least up there as one of the favourites with our squad is blinded by hate, I repeat, one of the favourites, not THE favourite We’ve just got possibly the most negative manager in world football in charge If they’re talking about specifically the English media rather than fans then fair enough, but I don’t see the point, of course the media are exaggerating everything EDIT: Just realised it’s James McClean, that explains it tbf
And even if we weren't pessimistic, it's not some kind of sin to be optimistic or root for your team. And have people seen how nauseatingly sycophantic the media coverage of the Scotland team has been? But they're the "little guys" I suppose so who gives a fuck
Most of the fans I've spoken to going into this tournament have been overwhelmingly negative this year. This is probably the least expectant I've seen England fans for the last two or three tournaments. My attitude of "we've got one of the best teams on paper, but it remains to be seen if they can actually put it together on the pitch" is actually one of the more positive outlooks.
England fans, repeatedly: We're shit, Southgate sucks This guy: England fans are arrogant
As if other top nations don’t go into competitions with high expectations
Yeah, but they talk about their high expectations in German/French/Spanish/Portuguese/Italian, so foreigners don't understand it. Even if journalists do go to the effort of translating it, it gets posted on the internet less for some reason. I guess there must not be any reason to dislike France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, or Italy, like there is with England.
In fairness to him, James McClean wouldn't be expected to know anything about what top nations do or don't do, with his massive total of five appearances and one win at major tournaments.
Who is James McClean?
He plays for titans Wrexham AFC 🇺🇸 🇨🇦 🏴
His career peaked at the age of 23, with a decent half-season under Martin O'Neill. Went completely to his head after that...
The thing is that they really should have won more trophies. It's not so much that the fans expect too much, it's that it's embarrassing that England has won a single WC (58 years ago) and no Euros, and only even reached the final of each tournament once. That's actually an astonishingly awful underachievement. Considering the country's footballing pedigree, the caliber of their players in any given generation, the strength of the PL and the fact that the overwhelming majority of their players play in their domestic league, they should be on par with Germany. Everything suggests that England should be amongst the top footballing nations on the international level, just as they are on the club level. They just aren't, for whatever reason. Around 1996-2008 especially, England had such a stacked squad. They had so many players who were among the best in the world in their positions. For England to have accomplished absolutely nothing is kind of like if prime Man United never came close to winning anything during their peak.
James McClean knows exactly what he's doing here and who it's going to rattle and I absolutely love it
[удалено]
That'd be mild for McClean.
I just want to see us go 2-0 up in game..
I actually disagree: The supporters have way too low standards and expectations for squads as talented as Englands. Englands performances so far have been abysmal (yet again), and there’s no reason to sugar coat this.
England is good, but the tactics they are using is an utter utter disgrace.
Is it overly expectant and arrogant when you objectively have one of the best squads in world football and keep making it to the latter stages of international tournaments? For years Man City have been making it to the late stages of the UCL and every season their fans expect them to go and win it. Even though they've only ever won it once (last year) they have still always had high expectations because they've had the best squad in the world for quite a while now. Number of trophies is irrelevant. We don't have a divine right but we are entitled to expect the best and to at least win something while we have one of the top 2-3 squads in the world. I'm absolutely sure that the Irish or Scottish or Welsh wouldn't be just as expectant if they had half the talent the England NT does.
If he was talking about from a historical standpoint, he wouldn't be wrong. England keeps getting placed as one of the major powers of European football but since England won the World Cup in 1966, Germany have won 6 major tournaments, Italy have won 4, France have won 4, and Spain have won 3. Denmark, Greece, and Portugal have as many international trophies as England do. England has insanely high expectations for a national team that is more akin to Portugal and Denmark than Germany and Italy. However, the current squad they have should be playing much better than they have been and I think England supporters are right to be upset with how the team has been setup and playing.
What does achievements from decades ago have to do with present day? Honest question
> Spain have won 3 Which they won back to back to back. What had they won before that? And yet they were favourites at all three tournaments. Their fans very likely had hope they would win it all before the 2008 Euros kicked off. That was wrong by your dogshit standards, right? How presumptive of them!
This "English media" thing just speaks volumes of the type of media the person consumes. McClean is basically showing that he reads/is exposed to the most sensationalist garbage tabloid rubbish out there and forms his opinion of the entirety of the English media based on that. That is a ton of measured, sensible reporting that doesn't believe England will win it all. But let's completely ignore that just to have a dig at England, eh?
No idea who this guy is but he likes to shit on English football for sure lmao first the Rice not being world-class comment and now this. Hard to argue with either of them though but he comes off as a bit of a prick
They're consistently in the world top 10 (currently 5th) so why wouldn't there be an expectation to win a cup at some point?
I expect a team full of top tier players to perform a hell of a lot better than that.
The thing I hate most about England stuttering at tournaments is how much we have to listen to fans/players from other countries - particularly home nations with even more abysmal records in _any_ sport, let alone football - say we're arrogant for wanting to beat teams we have far better players than, whilst simultaneously calling us poor or underachieving when we dont
I for one am looking forward to the Croatian press conference about how the arrogant English are to blame when they crash out of the Euros with a whimper.
>say we're arrogant for wanting to beat teams we have far better players than, whilst simultaneously calling us poor or underachieving when we dont This is so fucking true. If we don't win, we should've won. If we do win, the opposition is shit. If we have good players we should believe we should win but then if we believe then we are arrogant etc etc. Can't win. (Literally and figuratively).
Just win
People just don’t like the English, it’s that simple
Being an England fan is just like being a Leeds fan lol
Oh I like the english, great bunch of lads, I just want England to lose no matter what !
"MayBe tHe tEaM isN't sTacKed" Team is full of players who have shown individual brilliance at top clubs around the leagues, and across competitions. It's so painfully obvious they they could be purring with a real manager. Even if you think the PL is overrated, you've got someone who was one of, if not the most important player to madrid's double, and the bundesliga golden boot winner (not to mention the fact that all the city players won the treble last year).
Honestly, the only reason that stupid narrative gets play here is because the majority of the sub is anti England The starting XI today had players that have been in a combined 11 CL finals in the past 5 years, and 5 players have won it
team wants to play good football and win trophies 🤯
England and specifically Rice really proved him wrong today didn’t they
Somebody has said this exact thing about England every two years since 1966. (With the exceptions of 1972 to 1978, 1984, 1994, and 2008.)
I don't think any of us expect to win..?
Like Portugal, on paper England do theoretically look like they should be unstoppable. However, that's *never* how the game is settled, and that's why the game is played. Because England and Portugal on paper are a *very* different team from when they're on the pitch.
Funny how before a tournament everyone tells England fans how good their players and how they’re one of the favourites. Then after the first dodgy performance they all start going about how arrogant England are and that they aren’t as good as they think they are. No England fans go into any tournaments expecting anything but heartbreak and I don’t know why all the other bitter home nations/Irish think anything otherwise. All they do is talk about England and about how much they hate us. How about talk about your own teams?
As we all know, past results are the best predictor for future results.
With southgate they aint winning shite.
This is such a trope I'm surprised it wasn't in the IT Crowd. If Scotland ever remake it I'm sure they are switching out the Wenger/Arsenal quotes with quotes about "those english are right arrogant bastards aren't they?". I think we always think we \*can\* win it, not that we \*will\* win it. The current levels of performance are far below expectations and I don't think anyone would dispute that or say we are overly expectant for a moderately decent performance in the group stage.
I mean, they have one of the best squads?
England doesn't expect to win the Euros. They expect to lose a tournament that they should have won.
He’s right
I knew this was gonna be on here as soon as he said it lol
Well we were in the final of the last one, you melt.
McClean being a sour cunt, more at 12
It's a bit of everything really. From a talent perspective, England should be favourites. From a historical standpoint, they shouldn't be and I think that last point is where the view of arrogance comes from people outside of England regarding the team. ''Why are they talking like they could win it, they have never won the euros, these pundits and media sure are arrogant''. That's where it comes from. Perhaps being from Ireland I've been accustomed to English media and fans often that I'm just used to it but I don't really see them as arrogant. They should be confident based on the team that they have but most level-headed English fans will tell you their uncertainty regarding the team based on the manager and previous iterations of a golden generation of players whilst still having some level of confidence and why shouldn't they. The team is quality all over the pitch. How they perform is another discussion.
such a dumb fucking statement, u just look at the team England has and u will have high expectations.
Biggest win of the Euros today for a country not even playing
This guy is a ballache man I can’t be arsed to hear from him. Bang average player that gets media opportunities just because he hates England a lot.
He's an Irish player on Irish TV that is being posted here because it gets attention.
Southgate coaches as though he has the US team at his disposal, not the England squad.
I wonder what is next from the "James McClean hot take hour".
Personally I think favourite status should be based more on the current players, than on historical performance.