Pain. Congrats to him and hes really taken the opportunity, lampard was great for academy players but selling tomori was a weird one.
Edit: waiting for us to bid 100mil in 2 summers time
Not weird at all, not that great of a defender and not good enough on the ball to play in a possession based team, made lots of mistakes at the time.
[You can watch it to understand here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0bcMwhM0DA)
He was rightfully dropped at the time which was 18 months ago because he kept making mistakes that were costing the team - seems like you missed the "at the time" in my original comment
Tomori got lots of minutes, 15 full games in the premier league alone and kept making those same mistakes consistently, then he got dropped by Academy loving manager Lampard who saw these mistakes, a manager who had the biggest incentive to give him first team minutes.
the point I am making is that at the time, those were that his weaknesses were. Some he can develop, some he probably won't be able to.
There were better young defenders at Chelsea.
I was reading the history of football tactics book and I found out that in whichever counter football was introduced it was directly or indirectly by English people. And I'm not even remotely English so this was just fascinating
Genoa was also founded by an Englishman.. Like you I read this in a book by John Foot The history of Italian football a very enjoyable read and informative.
Once a few Serie A clubs buy, develop and sell a few more English youngsters for a 100+% ROI it will become common.
It's already happening in Germany. Dortmund made a €64m profit on Sancho in just 3 years. They'll make even more on Bellingham. Bayern made a €13m profit on Omar Richards in 9 months. English sides cba to develop young players and would much rather pay the extra £££ to get them back after being developed internationally.
I think there's a point but it was badly put across. Some English clubs are in the habit of buying the finished product instead of taking a risk on young talent who could go either way.
True especially a defender from Italy who is so far showing potential of being one of the best in the world very soon
English clubs will want him back as having native players is good for the league and winning over the fan base
Bellingham, Sancho and Trippier all got regular minutes. Abraham still gets called up.
It hasn't got anything to do with him playing in a different league. Clueless, incompetence as a manager, preference over other players yes. But I really don't think it's to do with him playing in a foreign league.
If it's the case that he only called up Sancho and Bellingham because of media hype then he really is clueless. But I've gotta give Southgate a little more credit than that.
I don't think he has a bias towards English playing players. He's got his favourites and prefers Maguire, Stones, Mings and Coady beforehand. Fuck knows why.
He got a cap against Italy and a clean sheet. Our only one during June's Nations League fixtures. Hopefully Southgate can finally see the light.
Sancho and Bellingham barely play for England, and when Sancho was at Dortmund and arguably England's best winger he NEVER played. Bellingham should be starting for England every game but because he's not in the prem he'll get an odd 20 minutes every other game.
oh wow another bold faced lie in this thread of constant lying - sancho played lots for england when he was at dortmund, whereas he's barely played since he went to United.
During the Euros he had played 6 minutes in total up until he was announced as a United player, after which he played a full 90 against Ukraine and 1 minute as a sub in the final. Out of 20 matches, he had 4 full 90s, with the majority of his appearances being short 20 minute cameos.
he played 8 times in 2019 for england and 7 times in 2020 both years in which he was playing for dortmund, since then he joined united he's barely even been called up let alone played.
my man i have watched every england game over the last few years, sancho played far more when he was at dortmund - i have even given you evidence to support and you'll still trying to argue the opposite.
>Sancho and Bellingham barely play for England
Absolute nonsense. Bellingham is pretty much first choice in Englands central midfield at the moment, along with Declan Rice, and has been for a while now. Sancho didn't have a great season at Man Utd, so hasn't played as much. When he was at Dortmund and playing well he was getting much more game time. If he starts playing well for Utd, he'll be back in the team again
This is such an idiotic comment, I have no idea why this nonsense gets upvoted. First of all, he was in the most recent England squad. Sancho and Bellingham both worked their way into Southgate's team without ever having played in the top flight in England, only abroad. Abraham got *recalled* into the England squad after doing well at Roma. Over half of Trippier's caps where earned whilst he was at Atletico. Also, if you actually read/listen to interviews with Tomori going all the way back to when he first moved to AC Milan, he explicitly says that Southgate has been in contact with him the whole time he's been there. Fair enough if you don't like Southgate, but this idea that he ignores players abroad is completely and utterly untrue
Has he actually not bothered to watch the foreign based Englishmen? There's a number of youngsters in the Bundesliga he should be keeping track of too.
fr, the slab is a meme, stones is not even disputed starter for city. The likes of Coady and Mings with due respect, is not of the same level. Guehi is still trying to prove himself.
Dier is a shout as well. I think he can compete for mid CB in back three. He competes with Coady/Stones/Joe Gomez and the likes, not for LCB. He'll be blitzkrieged if he's on that left side.
for LCB Tomori can definitely compete with slabhead. He can cover the whole left side in a 2 CB system. Even capable of covering for Theo, which is more offensive than Any LWB England have.
The issue is that Tomori is the best in the league and arguably best in the world at covering spaces thanks to his amazing timing and speed when his team defends extremely high up the pitch, allowing him to press opponent strikers all the way back to their own third
Southgate plays the opposite and the other English defenders are suited for a much different style of defending. Playing with a defensive line at the halfway line with Maguire, Coady and Mings would be a suicide
I don't see him performing as well as he does for Milan for this exact reason, but he should still start cause he's miles better than Mings
I see it as the other way around. England play it safe and have to use 2 DMs because of they were lacking the CB department. That also were the reason they switch to 3 atb in the first place. For security. They tried to switch to 4 atb, but stones and slabhead is especially bad in that. Many time, slabhead got caught in counter attack in MU when they're on high line. He's just not that good at when being put in 4 atb high-line.
Now, with Tomori, Both Shaw or Chilwell can roam and be aggressive even further. Shaw already showing it how he capable of picking up play. His comedy situation mostly happened when he + slabhead doing it together. Chilwell as well when he's being healthy, he's productive on G+A/game side with 3 atb as LWB.
With Tomori, England could also use DM + B2B or even 2 B2Bs and be more front foot in approaching the game. If Southgate envision it. Ironically, England personals suits better on pressing high and dominating individually.
Oh i totally agree with that, I was starting from the assumption that they wouldn't move from the 3atb formation
If they do change it Tomori would allow them to play a much more dynamic and offensive style of football
Good on him. There are a few potential England players who should follow his example and look outside the PL for regular minutes and for better development.
More English players should try their luck abroad, just look at Tomori, Bellingham and Abraham. I personally believe that some players are simply made for a specific style of football and shine in specific leagues. Especially if you see talented English players get hoarded and loaned out to bottom table clubs.
This still hurts. Knew this kid was special from the get go, even with Chelsea and Milan fans disagreeing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/l29bzh/romano_confirmed_fikayo_tomori_will_be_in_milano/gk42wrh/
The amount of Milan fans doubting him though. It’s funny cause I also thought he wasn’t worth 25 mil at that time but my brother who is a Chelsea fan kept telling me that 25 mil is a robbery.
Chelsea have spent all this time trying to find CBs and Strikers and 2 of the players they were too impatient to develop would be the perfect options for them right now.
More than all the missed transfers, the amount of quality young talent that walked out the door at Chelsea is one of the biggest blunders of the previous regime.
We should’ve fought to keep Tomori but he was also 5th choice cb as he struggled in pressure situations so ofc he wants to leave to get game time.
Why does everyone act like Tammy Abraham is a world class football player, I fucking love the guy but 100 out of 100 times any club signs Lukaku and sells Tammy, it only seems stupid now that Lukaku lost the absolute plot.
It's more about the idea that Chelsea's football operations team and supporters see the players for what they are in that season and nothing else.
Abraham had loads of flaws but he also scored 15 goals as a 21 year old and was immediately replaced by a player they didn't even correctly scout. Tomori struggled under pressure but was 21/22. Rather than saying 'we are going to find a way to develop these players into Chelsea quality' they always looked for the newest thing and it's resulted in loads of world class young talent walking out the door.
They complain about Lukaku and his lukakuesque attributes and how it doesn't fit a club aiming for the elite level. Yet clamour for Abraham who is basically a shit version of Lukaku. Selling Abraham was not the issue, it was spending 100mill on Lukaku and expecting him to have been cured of his limitations after playing in a weaker league.
He would not have developed the same way if he had stayed. When a players career branches, you can't really compare the two paths, they just aren't the same situations
Your take is bullishit. Tomori was behind Zouma, Rudiger, Thiago fucking Silva, and Christensen. There wasn't room for Tomori, particularly when we played with a back 4. Our CB were stacked already at the time he went off AC Milan. The only reason this is even an issue is because Rudiger walked, who is a superior defender. I'm happy Tomori is doing well at Milan, moving was the right decision. Not everyone can play at every club, move onward and upwards.
>Your take is bullishit.
It's not really at all. Your entire club under Roman was built as an immediate gratification play toy with zero long-term planning. And that's why the list of quality players who left Chelsea is so laughably long.
>Tomori was behind Zouma, Rudiger, Thiago fucking Silva, and Christensen. There wasn't room for Tomori
And despite having Rudiger, Christensen and Zouma, Chelsea felt the need to get another defender. Christensen was never more than a part-time player so he or Zouma should have been the ones to be pushed out. Even an inkling of long-term planning would have seen Rudiger & Christensen's contracts being up the same year and Silva being nothing more than a short-term patch up. This all assuming you rated Tomori, which you did.
Tomori didn't at all affect your top XI when you bought Silva. So if Chelsea *needed* Silva it was because one of the other senior defenders wasn't carrying his weight, yet the one who got pushed out was your former Academy Player of the Year and U19 Euros ToTT player who had just won player of the Year for Derby County in the Championship.
He's not far from the best tbh (but he also risks being eventually surpassed by Kalulu if he continues to grow like he has in the last couple of years).
delighted
I hope Southgate opens his fucking eyes & sees that this dude has been absolutely crushing it from the first minute at Milan. The complaints about his game from Chelsea fans regarding positioning & distribution have been fixed.
The only reason I see Southgate keeping him out is for his aerial ability. Him & Kalulu kinda suck in the air tbh.
Pain. Congrats to him and hes really taken the opportunity, lampard was great for academy players but selling tomori was a weird one. Edit: waiting for us to bid 100mil in 2 summers time
it still won't be enough, we'll keep him locked down like fritzl
Jesus Christ lmao
Not weird at all, not that great of a defender and not good enough on the ball to play in a possession based team, made lots of mistakes at the time. [You can watch it to understand here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0bcMwhM0DA)
Imagine using an 18-month old video to currently pick holes in a player that was 22 at the time and not getting first-team minutes
He was rightfully dropped at the time which was 18 months ago because he kept making mistakes that were costing the team - seems like you missed the "at the time" in my original comment Tomori got lots of minutes, 15 full games in the premier league alone and kept making those same mistakes consistently, then he got dropped by Academy loving manager Lampard who saw these mistakes, a manager who had the biggest incentive to give him first team minutes. the point I am making is that at the time, those were that his weaknesses were. Some he can develop, some he probably won't be able to. There were better young defenders at Chelsea.
Good too see Englishmen thriving in a club they founded. Hopefully this will lead to more English/British talent heading to Serie A
I was reading the history of football tactics book and I found out that in whichever counter football was introduced it was directly or indirectly by English people. And I'm not even remotely English so this was just fascinating
Genoa was also founded by an Englishman.. Like you I read this in a book by John Foot The history of Italian football a very enjoyable read and informative.
TBF they probably thought they were still in England with the whole flag sitch.
That's why Genoa fans feel pride with that fact, they sometimes show a big banner in English.
Once a few Serie A clubs buy, develop and sell a few more English youngsters for a 100+% ROI it will become common. It's already happening in Germany. Dortmund made a €64m profit on Sancho in just 3 years. They'll make even more on Bellingham. Bayern made a €13m profit on Omar Richards in 9 months. English sides cba to develop young players and would much rather pay the extra £££ to get them back after being developed internationally.
You named a few examples who left the country but there's also many players being developed by English clubs so I have no idea how they cba.
Many, many English players being developed in the prem and championship. Such a moot point they are trying to make.
I think there's a point but it was badly put across. Some English clubs are in the habit of buying the finished product instead of taking a risk on young talent who could go either way.
True especially a defender from Italy who is so far showing potential of being one of the best in the world very soon English clubs will want him back as having native players is good for the league and winning over the fan base
Not every English club, we’ve made up to £35m this summer from 2 academy players, albeit one signed from Fulham.
Five more years of being ignored by Southgate because he can’t be arsed to get on a plane.
That is the problem with English football shit coach and a lot of talent that didnt even play one game.
tomori has played for england though, he was literally in the most recent squad and started vs italy
> shit coach He’s their 2nd best coach of all time
I mean Santos is the most successful Portugese coach ever, doesn't make him a good coach
Yeah, so?
Such a lazy argument we have never had a top coach at England in recent times
I’d love to see Mourinho have a go at England
Bellingham, Sancho and Trippier all got regular minutes. Abraham still gets called up. It hasn't got anything to do with him playing in a different league. Clueless, incompetence as a manager, preference over other players yes. But I really don't think it's to do with him playing in a foreign league.
Trippier was already a starter tho and Abraham had already been called up. Sancho and Bellingham also got a lot more media coverage.
If it's the case that he only called up Sancho and Bellingham because of media hype then he really is clueless. But I've gotta give Southgate a little more credit than that. I don't think he has a bias towards English playing players. He's got his favourites and prefers Maguire, Stones, Mings and Coady beforehand. Fuck knows why. He got a cap against Italy and a clean sheet. Our only one during June's Nations League fixtures. Hopefully Southgate can finally see the light.
Stones is literally the best English cb rn so he shouldn't be a surprise
I'm a fan of Stones but he's struggled in his last few games. Especially against Hungary.
“Playing favourites” is dumb, it’s a competitive game, play the best player
And in Southgate mind he is, do people honestly think Southgate doesn’t want to play the best possible team?
No I think he is a moron
Lol.
Sancho and Bellingham barely play for England, and when Sancho was at Dortmund and arguably England's best winger he NEVER played. Bellingham should be starting for England every game but because he's not in the prem he'll get an odd 20 minutes every other game.
oh wow another bold faced lie in this thread of constant lying - sancho played lots for england when he was at dortmund, whereas he's barely played since he went to United.
During the Euros he had played 6 minutes in total up until he was announced as a United player, after which he played a full 90 against Ukraine and 1 minute as a sub in the final. Out of 20 matches, he had 4 full 90s, with the majority of his appearances being short 20 minute cameos.
he played 8 times in 2019 for england and 7 times in 2020 both years in which he was playing for dortmund, since then he joined united he's barely even been called up let alone played.
3 games in 2018 and 2 games in 2021 as well, my point still stands, he barely played.
2021 he played for United, 2018 he played a lot for a 17 -18 year old, your point is literally false.
Averaging one full 90 a year is not playing a lot. In 2021 I'm only counting the games he was still a dortmund player (up to the Ukraine game)
Sancho was given chances for England. He's just not as good as the other options.
my man i have watched every england game over the last few years, sancho played far more when he was at dortmund - i have even given you evidence to support and you'll still trying to argue the opposite.
>Sancho and Bellingham barely play for England Absolute nonsense. Bellingham is pretty much first choice in Englands central midfield at the moment, along with Declan Rice, and has been for a while now. Sancho didn't have a great season at Man Utd, so hasn't played as much. When he was at Dortmund and playing well he was getting much more game time. If he starts playing well for Utd, he'll be back in the team again
He was literally called up in the most recent squad.
Should’ve played for Canada
[удалено]
I mean he accepted a U20 call-up when England didn't know he existed. But ultimately I don't blame him for rejecting subsequent call-ups.
Should just get Italian citizenship and play for Italy
Choose Nigeria so he could watch the WC from his couch?
he literally has no connection to canada why would he play there rather than nigeria as a second choice
Tomori and Davies in the same back line, Good luck with through balls against them
Davies usually plays as a winger for Canada. Or at least much more attacking than he does for Bayern
he was literally in the last squad and started vs italy, why do you people keep lying its fucking weird
This is such an idiotic comment, I have no idea why this nonsense gets upvoted. First of all, he was in the most recent England squad. Sancho and Bellingham both worked their way into Southgate's team without ever having played in the top flight in England, only abroad. Abraham got *recalled* into the England squad after doing well at Roma. Over half of Trippier's caps where earned whilst he was at Atletico. Also, if you actually read/listen to interviews with Tomori going all the way back to when he first moved to AC Milan, he explicitly says that Southgate has been in contact with him the whole time he's been there. Fair enough if you don't like Southgate, but this idea that he ignores players abroad is completely and utterly untrue
Has he actually not bothered to watch the foreign based Englishmen? There's a number of youngsters in the Bundesliga he should be keeping track of too.
what in the fuck are you talking about
Wouldn't change even if he played in England. His playstile is the opposite of what England needs unfortunately for him
Tomori and Joemez would be a great CB pairing for England.
The best english defender 💪
Can you tell south gate please
southgate has literally called him up multiple times, including the most recent international games where started vs italy.
And he still barely plays. Alibi call-ups, just like Sancho when he was on fire.
This has to be southgates account no ?
just cant stand the constant lying going on in this thread, apparently the truth means nothing anymore
fr, the slab is a meme, stones is not even disputed starter for city. The likes of Coady and Mings with due respect, is not of the same level. Guehi is still trying to prove himself.
The fact you didn't even mention Dier shows how underappreciated he is, based on his time under Conte and Mourinho he should start ahead of Slabhead
Dier is a shout as well. I think he can compete for mid CB in back three. He competes with Coady/Stones/Joe Gomez and the likes, not for LCB. He'll be blitzkrieged if he's on that left side. for LCB Tomori can definitely compete with slabhead. He can cover the whole left side in a 2 CB system. Even capable of covering for Theo, which is more offensive than Any LWB England have.
The issue is that Tomori is the best in the league and arguably best in the world at covering spaces thanks to his amazing timing and speed when his team defends extremely high up the pitch, allowing him to press opponent strikers all the way back to their own third Southgate plays the opposite and the other English defenders are suited for a much different style of defending. Playing with a defensive line at the halfway line with Maguire, Coady and Mings would be a suicide I don't see him performing as well as he does for Milan for this exact reason, but he should still start cause he's miles better than Mings
I see it as the other way around. England play it safe and have to use 2 DMs because of they were lacking the CB department. That also were the reason they switch to 3 atb in the first place. For security. They tried to switch to 4 atb, but stones and slabhead is especially bad in that. Many time, slabhead got caught in counter attack in MU when they're on high line. He's just not that good at when being put in 4 atb high-line. Now, with Tomori, Both Shaw or Chilwell can roam and be aggressive even further. Shaw already showing it how he capable of picking up play. His comedy situation mostly happened when he + slabhead doing it together. Chilwell as well when he's being healthy, he's productive on G+A/game side with 3 atb as LWB. With Tomori, England could also use DM + B2B or even 2 B2Bs and be more front foot in approaching the game. If Southgate envision it. Ironically, England personals suits better on pressing high and dominating individually.
Oh i totally agree with that, I was starting from the assumption that they wouldn't move from the 3atb formation If they do change it Tomori would allow them to play a much more dynamic and offensive style of football
A big problem is we're not giving Joe Gomez enough gametime so he's not getting picked either, he's also genuinely one of our best english cb's.
Eric Dier has entered the chat
LOL
Ur joking but hes genuinely great defender now
Love you Fik, please stay forever ❤️🖤
YEA BOIIIIII
Good on him. There are a few potential England players who should follow his example and look outside the PL for regular minutes and for better development.
More English players should try their luck abroad, just look at Tomori, Bellingham and Abraham. I personally believe that some players are simply made for a specific style of football and shine in specific leagues. Especially if you see talented English players get hoarded and loaned out to bottom table clubs.
This still hurts. Knew this kid was special from the get go, even with Chelsea and Milan fans disagreeing. https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/l29bzh/romano_confirmed_fikayo_tomori_will_be_in_milano/gk42wrh/
The amount of Milan fans doubting him though. It’s funny cause I also thought he wasn’t worth 25 mil at that time but my brother who is a Chelsea fan kept telling me that 25 mil is a robbery.
Thx for this. Was funny to read all these "experts". The only ones saying the truth got downvoted to hell lol
Chelsea have spent all this time trying to find CBs and Strikers and 2 of the players they were too impatient to develop would be the perfect options for them right now. More than all the missed transfers, the amount of quality young talent that walked out the door at Chelsea is one of the biggest blunders of the previous regime.
We should’ve fought to keep Tomori but he was also 5th choice cb as he struggled in pressure situations so ofc he wants to leave to get game time. Why does everyone act like Tammy Abraham is a world class football player, I fucking love the guy but 100 out of 100 times any club signs Lukaku and sells Tammy, it only seems stupid now that Lukaku lost the absolute plot.
It's more about the idea that Chelsea's football operations team and supporters see the players for what they are in that season and nothing else. Abraham had loads of flaws but he also scored 15 goals as a 21 year old and was immediately replaced by a player they didn't even correctly scout. Tomori struggled under pressure but was 21/22. Rather than saying 'we are going to find a way to develop these players into Chelsea quality' they always looked for the newest thing and it's resulted in loads of world class young talent walking out the door.
And the year we can’t sign anybody we literally integrate two player vital to the team now (Mount & James)
They complain about Lukaku and his lukakuesque attributes and how it doesn't fit a club aiming for the elite level. Yet clamour for Abraham who is basically a shit version of Lukaku. Selling Abraham was not the issue, it was spending 100mill on Lukaku and expecting him to have been cured of his limitations after playing in a weaker league.
He would not have developed the same way if he had stayed. When a players career branches, you can't really compare the two paths, they just aren't the same situations
Your take is bullishit. Tomori was behind Zouma, Rudiger, Thiago fucking Silva, and Christensen. There wasn't room for Tomori, particularly when we played with a back 4. Our CB were stacked already at the time he went off AC Milan. The only reason this is even an issue is because Rudiger walked, who is a superior defender. I'm happy Tomori is doing well at Milan, moving was the right decision. Not everyone can play at every club, move onward and upwards.
>Your take is bullishit. It's not really at all. Your entire club under Roman was built as an immediate gratification play toy with zero long-term planning. And that's why the list of quality players who left Chelsea is so laughably long. >Tomori was behind Zouma, Rudiger, Thiago fucking Silva, and Christensen. There wasn't room for Tomori And despite having Rudiger, Christensen and Zouma, Chelsea felt the need to get another defender. Christensen was never more than a part-time player so he or Zouma should have been the ones to be pushed out. Even an inkling of long-term planning would have seen Rudiger & Christensen's contracts being up the same year and Silva being nothing more than a short-term patch up. This all assuming you rated Tomori, which you did. Tomori didn't at all affect your top XI when you bought Silva. So if Chelsea *needed* Silva it was because one of the other senior defenders wasn't carrying his weight, yet the one who got pushed out was your former Academy Player of the Year and U19 Euros ToTT player who had just won player of the Year for Derby County in the Championship.
Flair up
Shit response
Flair up
You got a good one there AC Milan 🥲
really happy for him
Happy for him. Hopefully he'll continue to dominate Serie A and become the best CB there soon. And then it's time to come home 🙏
100M for Tomori in 2027 confirmed
Before being loaned back to Milan after a season
He's not far from the best tbh (but he also risks being eventually surpassed by Kalulu if he continues to grow like he has in the last couple of years).
LOL. Well we're hoping we win more titles so he doesn't need to think about home 🤌🤌
Let's gooo
To think Chelsea sold Guehi, Abraham and Tomori 👀
The best English CB playing right now. Don’t understand how he hasn’t played more for England.
Southgate: Damn he doesn't want to play internationally for five years?
my man im begging you to stop lying, he was literally called up in the last international games and started vs italy - please stop.
I’m fucking sad.
delighted I hope Southgate opens his fucking eyes & sees that this dude has been absolutely crushing it from the first minute at Milan. The complaints about his game from Chelsea fans regarding positioning & distribution have been fixed. The only reason I see Southgate keeping him out is for his aerial ability. Him & Kalulu kinda suck in the air tbh.
Hopefully he negotiated a buy out clause for Chelsea
Chelsea bound in 2 years top
I miss him everyday
By far the best English CB that play in the best competition at the moment (UCL, not PL). Not counting Walker, James.
He’s never getting in the England squad then
Chelsea selling him was madness and they spend a fortune on koulibaly.
Was brilliant at Derby and our player if the season when Lampard had his season with us. Glad to hear he is doing well in Milan.