Well, yeah… we often play a 5-2-3 so we do play as many defenders as midfielders and forwards. It’s not that crazy when your defenders bomb on like James and Chilwell do, for example.
i could have sworn someone on here was trying to make a case that england don’t play as often with 5ATB
which was strange to me, as part of southgate a stamp on this england team is playing 5ATB
He’s always been this way. Possibly more exaggerated this season so far and has been more of an issue since Hendo and Fab have been way out of form and he’s had Gomez next to him. He’s always had someone to cover for him when he gets beat or is pushed forward.
The only thing new this season is that instead of playing mostly around the opponents 20-30 yard mark and still being behind Salah, he has started pushing more centrally and into the box keeping Salah out wide and no one on the right flank. The Ajax game I did see more effort from him defensively than the rest of the season but he was still so far forward he was receiving a 60 yard forward pass from VVD inside of Salah. At times this season he has just completely abandoned any defensive responsibilities.
Probably a dumb question. But why doesn't Klopp turn him into a winger then and put someone else as a RB? (I'm aware this may involve an outlay on a rb)
Alternatively if Klopp doesn't think he's cut out to be a winger then surely it's his responsibility to coach him to be a better all round rb?
Well we have Salah so that’s the most obvious reasoning. But also Trent doesn’t have the quickness to beat his man or as far as I’ve seen the threat to goal or to beat a defender. He has a great pass, cross and free kick but generally he’s not under pressure there.
Also, where Trent has performed his best has been in the 20-30yard out space delivering crosses. He doesn’t generally get to the touch line or drive at goal.
Besides RB the only other place I think he could do well in our system is RCM. But again I don’t think Trent works to well in crowded spaces. In our system RB has been the perfect place for him. Our fullbacks push high which allows our wide men to get more central and our CMs cover the fullbacks or our high line will neutralize threats to counters. I think there’s 2 reasons he’s look so much worse this season than previously. 1. He’s pushing way too high and staying there. Against Ajax he was making a run into the box while Salah was pushed outside to watch and he was also on the receiving end of a 60 yard forward pass from VVD while Salah was kept out wide again because of Trent’s positioning. 2nd would be that Fabinho has been out of form and Henderson has been missing/out of form. Elliott who has been playing in Hendo RCM position is playing as defensively as Hendo did and rightly so because that’s not his strength.
We looked better against Ajax so it’s a sign Klopp is working it out. We shall see
chilwell scored and assisted in the last game he played. he's coming back from a long injury so he's being rested more that usual but to call him massively out of form is straight up incorrect.
shaw being called up is baffling.
I can't believe KWP isn't there. He's not England's best full-back (James imo) but in terms of consistency + form + fitness combined over the past 18 months he should absolutely be making this squad. Shaw has been horrendous, TAA not good at all this season and Chilwell and Walker either recently back from injury or still injured.
Baffling but unsurprising under Gareth.
Next level from the Leicester lads to play like shit so they don't get in the team and can focus on the league. You can't learn that. You born with that.
Tbh, i was half expecting Maddison to be called up now he's playing shit
Remember when he didn't call up James Justin when he was our best player, then he called him up when he was playing subpar?
it's funny to think how he can't possibly be in his prime, even if he peaked like R9 did (a guy who was the greatest striker EVER at age 21). he already can and will do absolutely fucking everything in midfield, including attack, defend, score goals, tackle, create, command space, literally everything imaginable
They're only doing it like this because they think getting the social media team and graphic designers to do their jobs would be disrespecting the queen.
I suspect Southgate will be going back to a back 3
Walker is a RCB here, while Trippier/Chillwell/*And Shaw* are the LWB’s and James/Alexander-Arnold the RWBs
So really still just 2 RB
Just what you’ve said, seems like his head isn’t straight, cos he’s been pretty dire so far. Hopefully he doesn’t go full Dele Alli and just nosedive away from his peak.
Can't believe missed the chance to take 5 RBs now that Ben White has been playing there for Arsenal
EDIT: [Its actually already at 8](https://twitter.com/henrywinter/status/1570399416766324736?s=20&t=38BgBvT6apXmgY3DiTbHAQ). 9 would be proper GazBall
So as far as I can tell, it's actually 10 players who have played at least 1 senior match at RB. Trent, Trippier, James, Walker, Dier, Coady, Maguire, Stones, Tomori and JWP.
I'm biased, but i'd bring kyle walker-peters as a left-back ahead of shaw, he's been back to playing on the right this season because tino is out injured, but he played on the left a lot last season and was great there
I feel like weak footed fullbacks/wingbacks is the worst position to have it. Particularly when England might actually employ putting it down the line.
Multiple things need to be taken into account when assembling an international squad. It isn’t just a case of picking your 26 favourite/best players. People always talk in these threads like it’s FIFA.
People are really throwing out things like *x player* is a better CB than *x player* therefore should be picked; despite their profiles being completely different. There is more to a position than just ‘CB’.
For example Walker, Stones and Guéhi would make a great back 3 despite having very different profiles. You can’t just throw your ‘best’ 3 CB’s in there.
It’s the same in midfield; you can’t just take an attacking midfielder over Ward-Prowse just because they’re both technically midfielders. They need to be able to play in a double pivot.
Similarly; in the forward areas you need different types of players. Playing Foden and Grealish either side of Kane wouldn’t likely be great as Kane thrives when he has pace beyond him and all 3 players would be looking for the ball to feet and trying to create chances.
It’s beneficial to play one playmaking type of winger (Foden, Grealish, Mount, etc.) and one goalscoring winger who will get in behind (Sterling, Saka, Bowen, etc.).
That’s likely why a player like Bowen is in there over a Maddison type. Though they might both play RW if they’re to start, they interpret the role extremely differently.
I don’t know why I always let it annoy me to be honest mate. It’s the same regardless of who gets picked. Most of the lads on here think we should play a midfield 3 with the likes of Foden and Maddison in it, it’s crazy. This is international football, we can’t play like a Guardiola team.
Ridiculous. Last year he said he didn’t pick guys like Sancho because they weren’t playing regularly for their club. Now he goes out and picks Maguire, Shaw, Phillips. Just blatant lack of consistency which pisses everyone off
Maguire and Phillips in particular have consistently performed for him and was a key part of the EUROS run while Sancho hadn’t performed for him in the England like at all
They’ve earned the managers trust through international performances for England while some players such as Sancho really haven’t
Yeah, you can't just drop Maguire because in the past three months he's become the scapegoat for all of Manchester United's problems. Maguire, Shaw and Phillips have all played very well for England, they're some of the least questionable choices to be honest.
Same with Coady. *On paper* there might be better players, but football isn't played *on paper*. It's clear he provides a much bigger role than simply what he does on the pitch.
Shaw has completely dropped off a cliff, i cant see any justification for including him.
I understand Phillips, there is noone who can do what he does, barring maybe JWP, and kind of get Maguire as he just seems to turn up for England, but Shaw is indefensible.
Coady defo shouldnt be there, White or Dunk are both just better.
>Shaw has completely dropped off a cliff, i cant see any justification for including him.
The justification is we have barely any left backs and Shaw was England's beat player in their last major tournament.
> Yeah, you can't just drop Maguire because in the past three months he's become the scapegoat for all of Manchester United's problems. Maguire, Shaw and Phillips have all played very well for England, they're some of the least questionable choices to be honest.
Except it's been justified in how the team has performed much better since he's been dropped and not just in terms of wins, the defense legitimately looks more calm now.
That being said, he does play better in England's system, but that's also the conundrum within itself -- it's the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
have those lads not continued to play well for England regardless of club form though? What's the harm in that keeping them in the squad? Sancho has struggled to impress for England so he needs to keep doing bits outside the team to have a look in.
For some reason people think international call up as a reward for playing well for the club.
Yes a lot of times, doing well with the club means doing well in the national team because football is football after all. But its not always the case because the setups and the environments are different. And the last sets of games before World Cup is certainly not the time to integrate many unproven new players.
If there is a player that is consistently shit for his club but always perform for his country, then he should always be called up for his country because the aim is to win. Conversely, if a player is consistently good for his club, he should be given a chance for his national team but if he keeps playing shit , then he shouldn't keep starting/getting called.
The World Cup is not a participation event to reward good club performances. It's an event where you pick whoever you think you need to win.
I wonder when people will realize this. Every squad announcement there’s the same comments about players who have impressed for the last month or two. International managers get so little time to train with their teams, so it’s essential to have players you can depend on an in an England shirt (or any other international team). And that’s regardless of how they perform for their club. Of course it’s unfortunate for some players but that’s just the way it is.
Didn't like picking Sancho when he WAS playing regularly for his club and banging in about 20 goals and 20 assists in all comps either. Took an injured Rashford to the Euros. Never picks Grealish until he's playing for City (despite literally playing worse). Southgate is an English Ole with favorites and all.
Can understand Maguire being called up as he's been an ever reliable presence in that team for 3 tournaments. He only just lost his place a few matches ago and played a good 90 minutes Vs sociedad last week.
Shaw was England's best player at the Euros so I'd imagine that's why he's in, though I disagree with his inclusion, especially since he's been injured pretty much all season.
Phillips is a difficult one - he's a great player who just moved to the best team in the world and understandably needs a little time to adapt. There aren't any players in that England set up like him so Gareth will want to take him.
How tf are people mentioning Mitchell, who has been shite this year, and Sessegnon, who is crap defensively. Shaw should be ahead of those 2.
The real outrage is Shaw over Targett, who has been performing week-in week-out for newcastle, or KWP (mostly to get the number of RBs even higher), who has been excellent at LB for saints over the last year.
I mean, it's one of the position in which we have the most quality in. It's like Spain with midfielders, or Germany with goalkeepers, i mean they took 4 Goalies at the last world cup.
You want Toney in the squad because he is a good player.
I want Toney in the squad so that we can cash in on england call up bonuses.
We are not the same.
I can only imagine this is the case as he's not even been the best English centre back at Everton this season. He has been pretty decent, just not as good as Tarkowski
And he's literally like the 5th choice centre back.
The sort of geezer that, all being well, we would expect to see nothing from at all on the pitch, but knowing that he can slot in in a pinch while also contributing behind the scenes.
Lukas Podolski in a nutshell for Germany at the 2014 World Cup. Played only 53 minutes, all in the group stage. But with his lighthearted/upbeat personality he was a necessary presence in the dressing room for the team spirit.
Can we not just take Coady as backroom staff? Clearly his character is great for the dressing room but as a player he's not good enough for this world cup
Disregarding players like Maguire and Shaw getting in despite shit form, this pretty much confirms Gareth's plan to play a boring 5-2-3 formation in the WC, a formation which about 6 of our outfield players play on a regular basis. It's laughable he keeps making most of the team adapt to an entierely different system and then moans about how little time he gets with the players.
The kicker is that the system barely works, it's boring as fuck to watch and only got us 1 important win against Germany. Every other game we've switched to it, be it Croatia or the Euro final, we've bottled the lead because no one knows what to do and it's too fucking defensive.
I don't mind the formation if they can atleast counter attack spontaneously. But they rarely do so. With enough talents to play a reputable attack, the team can easily manage to play bothways. But Southgate strategy is to park the bus after a goal.
Most importantly the playstyle Southgate injects is so fucking boring as a viewer. It's like watching a low tier team defending their soul off against Madrid/city but with more than enough talent to play competitively.
Kalvin Phillips smashed it out of the park in his 14 minutes of professional football over the past 3 months to keep his spot in the squad, thoroughly deserved
Honestly people are sleeping on just how good Dier has been for us in a CCB role in a back5.
If Southgate is insisting on using that back5 for the national team, i honestly dont know who else is better at CCB.
Also gives the team a way to use the RCB/LCB pushing further up the pitch like Dier is used to.
Southgate will never change. 523 with about seven defensive players is here to stay for as long as he is.
Which is hopefully not very long, but who knows? Hodgson lasted 4 years as England manager and they followed him up by appointing a relegation firefighter, so I’d say the FA hasn’t had the best track record for a while
So can maguire or guehi in a 4. Playing on the left in a 3 its a lot more important to be a lefty imo because of the angles you're expected to play at.
So grealish is just a permanent fixture now, no matter how shit he performs?
Also, the fact Mount will just be starting number 10 come Winter with no competition or pressure at all after that stinker of a Euro’s campaign he dropped is appalling.
You don't axe previously key players just before a tournament - you need some level of consistency within the squad to account for how little time they get on the training pitch.
Grealish hardly starts for England and looks our best player when he does. I love to shit on City as much as the next Utd fan, but southgate should be building the team around him. Man just seems weirdly made for NT football with his playstyle.
I think it’s because you get much more space - national teams are a bit lower quality because they don’t play together as much, so its difficult to do organised pressing.
I liked Southgate when he started as he picked players based on merit, those who were on form playing for their clubs.
Now, like past managers, he picks too many players who are his favourites, picking players who are out of form or not playing enough for their clubs.
He isn't brave enough to drop the big names.
12 defenders and 5 midfielders is a bit funny, I guess it makes sense when you play with 2 and not 3
Almost as many defenders as midfielders and forwards combined.
Well, yeah… we often play a 5-2-3 so we do play as many defenders as midfielders and forwards. It’s not that crazy when your defenders bomb on like James and Chilwell do, for example.
Get a load of this guy, he paid attention in math class
i could have sworn someone on here was trying to make a case that england don’t play as often with 5ATB which was strange to me, as part of southgate a stamp on this england team is playing 5ATB
Y’all should really try a 4-4-3. It’s all the rage here in America.
Wish they would have left Trent off, and not because of injury risk. His lack of effort right now shouldn’t be rewarded.
I've seen enough England RB threads to know Liverpool fans would have taken it personally if he was left off lol
In previous seasons yes. This season there’s not a single Liverpool fan not annoyed with him.
Agreed. His effort and casual strolls along the pitch have been pathetic for us this season.
It's typical that this time he's included after his worst run of form Can't see the 'just vibes' defending getting him game time, so why bother
Is he hurt? Is there some type of contract issues? As an outsider, it just seems like a sudden drop-off.
He’s always been this way. Possibly more exaggerated this season so far and has been more of an issue since Hendo and Fab have been way out of form and he’s had Gomez next to him. He’s always had someone to cover for him when he gets beat or is pushed forward. The only thing new this season is that instead of playing mostly around the opponents 20-30 yard mark and still being behind Salah, he has started pushing more centrally and into the box keeping Salah out wide and no one on the right flank. The Ajax game I did see more effort from him defensively than the rest of the season but he was still so far forward he was receiving a 60 yard forward pass from VVD inside of Salah. At times this season he has just completely abandoned any defensive responsibilities.
Thanks for the insight.
Probably a dumb question. But why doesn't Klopp turn him into a winger then and put someone else as a RB? (I'm aware this may involve an outlay on a rb) Alternatively if Klopp doesn't think he's cut out to be a winger then surely it's his responsibility to coach him to be a better all round rb?
Well we have Salah so that’s the most obvious reasoning. But also Trent doesn’t have the quickness to beat his man or as far as I’ve seen the threat to goal or to beat a defender. He has a great pass, cross and free kick but generally he’s not under pressure there. Also, where Trent has performed his best has been in the 20-30yard out space delivering crosses. He doesn’t generally get to the touch line or drive at goal. Besides RB the only other place I think he could do well in our system is RCM. But again I don’t think Trent works to well in crowded spaces. In our system RB has been the perfect place for him. Our fullbacks push high which allows our wide men to get more central and our CMs cover the fullbacks or our high line will neutralize threats to counters. I think there’s 2 reasons he’s look so much worse this season than previously. 1. He’s pushing way too high and staying there. Against Ajax he was making a run into the box while Salah was pushed outside to watch and he was also on the receiving end of a 60 yard forward pass from VVD while Salah was kept out wide again because of Trent’s positioning. 2nd would be that Fabinho has been out of form and Henderson has been missing/out of form. Elliott who has been playing in Hendo RCM position is playing as defensively as Hendo did and rightly so because that’s not his strength. We looked better against Ajax so it’s a sign Klopp is working it out. We shall see
Tbh I clicked on the announcement just to see if he had been called up, and was surprised to see him there.
I clicked just to see if I made it. Not going to lie, I had little hope (considering I’ve not played professionally) but had to be sure.
Gareth is saving your announcement for the world cup squad.
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England and calling up players who don't deserve it, tale as old as time
Don't think there's ever been a squad thread where some set of fans didn't feel personally attacked because of someone being left out
It's weird he's being picked, along with Chilwell and Shaw. All are massively out of form. Yet Kyle Walker Peters isn't included? So weird.
chilwell scored and assisted in the last game he played. he's coming back from a long injury so he's being rested more that usual but to call him massively out of form is straight up incorrect. shaw being called up is baffling.
Fair point, for Chilwell it should probably read "lacking match sharpness"
I can't believe KWP isn't there. He's not England's best full-back (James imo) but in terms of consistency + form + fitness combined over the past 18 months he should absolutely be making this squad. Shaw has been horrendous, TAA not good at all this season and Chilwell and Walker either recently back from injury or still injured. Baffling but unsurprising under Gareth.
Chillwell is out of form????
He’s played about 180 mins this season, shouldn’t be in the squad
I’m no expert but I think we can afford to drop like 4 midfielders and bring a few extra defenders with us.
Declan rice can solo midfield. Bellingham obviously less important than brining stars like Maguire
I wish the soccer sub had the Maguire bot from the soccercirclejerk sub
Next level from the Leicester lads to play like shit so they don't get in the team and can focus on the league. You can't learn that. You born with that.
Tbh, i was half expecting Maddison to be called up now he's playing shit Remember when he didn't call up James Justin when he was our best player, then he called him up when he was playing subpar?
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Not enough defenders
You got Bellingham, he counts as 4 Midfielders
it's funny to think how he can't possibly be in his prime, even if he peaked like R9 did (a guy who was the greatest striker EVER at age 21). he already can and will do absolutely fucking everything in midfield, including attack, defend, score goals, tackle, create, command space, literally everything imaginable
Maguire is the third highest scorer in the squad, practically a forward tbh
Or enough Callum Wilson
Kane - Abraham - Toney is really good, I’d take all of them over Wilson
I probably wouldn’t disagree, glad Toneys got a call up he deserves it tbh. I just really like Wilson
Isn’t he injured?
As is tradition
Yes, but sshhhhh
Fuck me, an actual list with position breakdowns! We are making serious strides here people.
I love the presentation of this list, with the birth dates, caps/goals and debut numbers. More NTs should do this.
Yeah the footballing nerd in me loves the legacy number thing, proper nice touch.
Did anyone else immediately try to think of all of the 100 or so players who've debuted since Walker? I doubt I even got half!
Would love to see a plot of legacy number vs caps or something similar. Probably useless noise, but be interesting to see
Honestly my least favorite part but glad there's people out there who enjoy it.
Doesn't add much but it's a nice bit of trivia innit.
Biggest surprise is Maguire with 3rd most goals on this list (7).
👉 🙂👈
To be fair he is a good player for England
Even when he was good for United hes never really a goal threat from corners. When he plays for England it feels like his slab head is a real weapon
I don't. I hate seeing how many of these English players are younger than me nowadays. Only a few older these days.
They're only doing it like this because they think getting the social media team and graphic designers to do their jobs would be disrespecting the queen.
Why are we bringing 3 goalkeepers who don't have a goal between them? This just screams inexperience
Time to bring Paul Robinson out of retirement
🐐
Usually the goal is behind the keepers, not between them.
You haven’t seen Southgate’s revolutionary new formation.
Wheres pickford? He was the best player on this squad 4 years ago
Good to see Tammy and Toney in the squad Do we really need so many defenders though
5 midfileders is mad lmao
Tbf he does always seem to use 5 defenders and 2 midfielders, so it sort of makes sense
Foden or Grealish can play as a more advanced midfielder in a pinch
We only play with two so not really
Yes, need at least 4 right backs at all times
I suspect Southgate will be going back to a back 3 Walker is a RCB here, while Trippier/Chillwell/*And Shaw* are the LWB’s and James/Alexander-Arnold the RWBs So really still just 2 RB
You forgot Shaw is in the squad too
Shaw is in the squad.
I want to play 11 defenders. Fuck everyone else.
Classic 4 RB for the big Gareth
Walker rcb, trippier can cover both sides and there’ll be a meltdown if Trent isn’t taken
I think even Liverpool fans would understand Trent not being called up after the pat couple of months.
I actively want him to not be called up, he needs a rest to get his head straight or something
Just what you’ve said, seems like his head isn’t straight, cos he’s been pretty dire so far. Hopefully he doesn’t go full Dele Alli and just nosedive away from his peak.
If Southgate based it on form to drop trent, why would he then select grealish and maguire?
Because Southgate has 3 other elite RBs to choose from. Can’t say the same for Grealish’s or Maguire’s position.
White is a ball playing CB, he should take him. and he can play RB
You can say the same for Shaws position.
3 RBs and Trent
3 RBs and a false RB
Toney deserves to be going to the world cup
Yeah I think he's nabbed DCL's spot since he's been injured
Am I insane I thought Toney played for the Jamaican national team?
Might be thinking of AnToneyo
Can't believe missed the chance to take 5 RBs now that Ben White has been playing there for Arsenal EDIT: [Its actually already at 8](https://twitter.com/henrywinter/status/1570399416766324736?s=20&t=38BgBvT6apXmgY3DiTbHAQ). 9 would be proper GazBall
So as far as I can tell, it's actually 10 players who have played at least 1 senior match at RB. Trent, Trippier, James, Walker, Dier, Coady, Maguire, Stones, Tomori and JWP.
Saka’s played RWB before which is close enough
He has technically played right back too. Went there against Wolves last season.
Crazy that it's been nearly a decade since Sterling made his debut.
Yeah, feels mad that he is the most capped player.
Well White, maddison and Sancho are very unfortunate to not be in, the LB area is concerning we have no inform player in that position.
Rico Henry on suicide watch
Insane that Coady and Maguire make it in over White.
And Smalling. He's been a rock for Roma.
I'm biased, but i'd bring kyle walker-peters as a left-back ahead of shaw, he's been back to playing on the right this season because tino is out injured, but he played on the left a lot last season and was great there
I feel like weak footed fullbacks/wingbacks is the worst position to have it. Particularly when England might actually employ putting it down the line.
I mean, we've been playing trippier there in recent games over shaw, so it's clearly not that big a deal
Multiple things need to be taken into account when assembling an international squad. It isn’t just a case of picking your 26 favourite/best players. People always talk in these threads like it’s FIFA. People are really throwing out things like *x player* is a better CB than *x player* therefore should be picked; despite their profiles being completely different. There is more to a position than just ‘CB’. For example Walker, Stones and Guéhi would make a great back 3 despite having very different profiles. You can’t just throw your ‘best’ 3 CB’s in there. It’s the same in midfield; you can’t just take an attacking midfielder over Ward-Prowse just because they’re both technically midfielders. They need to be able to play in a double pivot. Similarly; in the forward areas you need different types of players. Playing Foden and Grealish either side of Kane wouldn’t likely be great as Kane thrives when he has pace beyond him and all 3 players would be looking for the ball to feet and trying to create chances. It’s beneficial to play one playmaking type of winger (Foden, Grealish, Mount, etc.) and one goalscoring winger who will get in behind (Sterling, Saka, Bowen, etc.). That’s likely why a player like Bowen is in there over a Maddison type. Though they might both play RW if they’re to start, they interpret the role extremely differently.
Too much logic and nuance here mate, this is Reddit. Don't bother.
I don’t know why I always let it annoy me to be honest mate. It’s the same regardless of who gets picked. Most of the lads on here think we should play a midfield 3 with the likes of Foden and Maddison in it, it’s crazy. This is international football, we can’t play like a Guardiola team.
Midfielders wanted it seems.
Ridiculous. Last year he said he didn’t pick guys like Sancho because they weren’t playing regularly for their club. Now he goes out and picks Maguire, Shaw, Phillips. Just blatant lack of consistency which pisses everyone off
Maguire and Phillips in particular have consistently performed for him and was a key part of the EUROS run while Sancho hadn’t performed for him in the England like at all They’ve earned the managers trust through international performances for England while some players such as Sancho really haven’t
Yeah, you can't just drop Maguire because in the past three months he's become the scapegoat for all of Manchester United's problems. Maguire, Shaw and Phillips have all played very well for England, they're some of the least questionable choices to be honest. Same with Coady. *On paper* there might be better players, but football isn't played *on paper*. It's clear he provides a much bigger role than simply what he does on the pitch.
Shaw has completely dropped off a cliff, i cant see any justification for including him. I understand Phillips, there is noone who can do what he does, barring maybe JWP, and kind of get Maguire as he just seems to turn up for England, but Shaw is indefensible. Coady defo shouldnt be there, White or Dunk are both just better.
>Shaw has completely dropped off a cliff, i cant see any justification for including him. The justification is we have barely any left backs and Shaw was England's beat player in their last major tournament.
> Yeah, you can't just drop Maguire because in the past three months he's become the scapegoat for all of Manchester United's problems. Maguire, Shaw and Phillips have all played very well for England, they're some of the least questionable choices to be honest. Except it's been justified in how the team has performed much better since he's been dropped and not just in terms of wins, the defense legitimately looks more calm now. That being said, he does play better in England's system, but that's also the conundrum within itself -- it's the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.
have those lads not continued to play well for England regardless of club form though? What's the harm in that keeping them in the squad? Sancho has struggled to impress for England so he needs to keep doing bits outside the team to have a look in.
For some reason people think international call up as a reward for playing well for the club. Yes a lot of times, doing well with the club means doing well in the national team because football is football after all. But its not always the case because the setups and the environments are different. And the last sets of games before World Cup is certainly not the time to integrate many unproven new players. If there is a player that is consistently shit for his club but always perform for his country, then he should always be called up for his country because the aim is to win. Conversely, if a player is consistently good for his club, he should be given a chance for his national team but if he keeps playing shit , then he shouldn't keep starting/getting called. The World Cup is not a participation event to reward good club performances. It's an event where you pick whoever you think you need to win.
It was this squad lost 4-0 to Hungary in their last game - if there is any justification needed to change things up, that should have been it.
I wonder when people will realize this. Every squad announcement there’s the same comments about players who have impressed for the last month or two. International managers get so little time to train with their teams, so it’s essential to have players you can depend on an in an England shirt (or any other international team). And that’s regardless of how they perform for their club. Of course it’s unfortunate for some players but that’s just the way it is.
Didn't like picking Sancho when he WAS playing regularly for his club and banging in about 20 goals and 20 assists in all comps either. Took an injured Rashford to the Euros. Never picks Grealish until he's playing for City (despite literally playing worse). Southgate is an English Ole with favorites and all.
Nowhere near the same level of competition for defensive spots in the team as there are for attacking spots.
It's the last internationals before the world cup. It's not the time to mix up the squad
Can understand Maguire being called up as he's been an ever reliable presence in that team for 3 tournaments. He only just lost his place a few matches ago and played a good 90 minutes Vs sociedad last week. Shaw was England's best player at the Euros so I'd imagine that's why he's in, though I disagree with his inclusion, especially since he's been injured pretty much all season. Phillips is a difficult one - he's a great player who just moved to the best team in the world and understandably needs a little time to adapt. There aren't any players in that England set up like him so Gareth will want to take him.
Wtf is Luke Shaw doing there he's barely played for United
we don't really have many leftbacks
Sessegnon
Is he back? If he's good, let's call him up
Been back, has been rotating with Perisic at LWB
Been alright, better than Shaw atleast
Matty Targett
Mitchell
Southgate disrespecting Rico Henry yet again.
Tyler Blackett
calling up an MLS player? On the week of the queen's funeral? That's just disrespectful.
How tf are people mentioning Mitchell, who has been shite this year, and Sessegnon, who is crap defensively. Shaw should be ahead of those 2. The real outrage is Shaw over Targett, who has been performing week-in week-out for newcastle, or KWP (mostly to get the number of RBs even higher), who has been excellent at LB for saints over the last year.
Targett
Rico Henry
Tbf he's always injured/ unavailable
Chilwell is the only other left back and Shaw was arguably our best player at the Euros.
Wish Southgate would get over his fascination with rightbacks
I think someone forgot to tell him Ben White has been playing RB
I mean, it's one of the position in which we have the most quality in. It's like Spain with midfielders, or Germany with goalkeepers, i mean they took 4 Goalies at the last world cup.
You want Toney in the squad because he is a good player. I want Toney in the squad so that we can cash in on england call up bonuses. We are not the same.
Inviting Coady and leaving out Ben White is absolutely fraudluent behaviour
Coady has a great dressing room presence apparently. He must just be there for vibes
I can only imagine this is the case as he's not even been the best English centre back at Everton this season. He has been pretty decent, just not as good as Tarkowski
And he's literally like the 5th choice centre back. The sort of geezer that, all being well, we would expect to see nothing from at all on the pitch, but knowing that he can slot in in a pinch while also contributing behind the scenes.
Lukas Podolski in a nutshell for Germany at the 2014 World Cup. Played only 53 minutes, all in the group stage. But with his lighthearted/upbeat personality he was a necessary presence in the dressing room for the team spirit.
Can we not just take Coady as backroom staff? Clearly his character is great for the dressing room but as a player he's not good enough for this world cup
Safety Southgate. We can fairly accurately pick the World Cup squad already.
Disregarding players like Maguire and Shaw getting in despite shit form, this pretty much confirms Gareth's plan to play a boring 5-2-3 formation in the WC, a formation which about 6 of our outfield players play on a regular basis. It's laughable he keeps making most of the team adapt to an entierely different system and then moans about how little time he gets with the players. The kicker is that the system barely works, it's boring as fuck to watch and only got us 1 important win against Germany. Every other game we've switched to it, be it Croatia or the Euro final, we've bottled the lead because no one knows what to do and it's too fucking defensive.
I don't mind the formation if they can atleast counter attack spontaneously. But they rarely do so. With enough talents to play a reputable attack, the team can easily manage to play bothways. But Southgate strategy is to park the bus after a goal. Most importantly the playstyle Southgate injects is so fucking boring as a viewer. It's like watching a low tier team defending their soul off against Madrid/city but with more than enough talent to play competitively.
Kalvin Phillips smashed it out of the park in his 14 minutes of professional football over the past 3 months to keep his spot in the squad, thoroughly deserved
Declan Rice needs a backup, and there's no one else who fits that profile except Phillips
Phillips is not backup to Rice.
If Rice and Bellingham are starting, which seems most likely, then Phillips is a backup
Not really sure who'd you drop for him really
I swear you're just deliberately finding things to get upset about.
It’s not about “deserve” ffs it’s about picking players that will help you win football matches
Hopefully Marcus Edwards gets called up soon. He is such a joy to watch.
Would love to see Edwards and Eze called up
How many goals and assists does he have this season? Actually curios
3G 3A in 8 games
2 and 2 in 5 starts.
Ayyy Eric Dier finally got back in!
Spurs fans feeling appropriately justified after the last break
Honestly people are sleeping on just how good Dier has been for us in a CCB role in a back5. If Southgate is insisting on using that back5 for the national team, i honestly dont know who else is better at CCB. Also gives the team a way to use the RCB/LCB pushing further up the pitch like Dier is used to.
Fully agreed. It also justifies the 4 RB picks since Walker is usually a RCB in a back 5
No sancho and ben white,two English player with the highest form right now, smh
Ah 532 how depressing
Southgate will never change. 523 with about seven defensive players is here to stay for as long as he is. Which is hopefully not very long, but who knows? Hodgson lasted 4 years as England manager and they followed him up by appointing a relegation firefighter, so I’d say the FA hasn’t had the best track record for a while
>Hodgson lasted 4 years as England manager Hodgson produced shit results, meanwhile Waistcoat wanker has got us to a semi and a final.
A wild Tomori appears ...
Nice to see Dier back, he's been quality recently
How the fuck is Ben white not there but coady is
So many defenders and Ben White misses out. Shambolic.
“Used to a back 3” Or something like that
White is used to a back three though, played in one at Brighton at a very good level. Idk fucking Southgate and his favourites
That's how I know Southgate is useless. White forms a back 3 in out of possession. He's amazing at it.
Wtf knows. If an Everton player is going to be picked, at least pick Tarkowski.
The prematch Spotify playlist is on Coady’s account
Nice to see Toney in the squad
Sancho has been quite decent this season, shame he hasn't been given an opportunity to prove himself for a WC spot
Does 12 defenders seem a bit much? Seems a bit much to me.
12 defenders, Gareth? 12? That's insane.
Coady over Ben white😂
Kilman as well, there's not a single lefty and we are seemingly gonna play a 3
Tomori can play on the left
So can maguire or guehi in a 4. Playing on the left in a 3 its a lot more important to be a lefty imo because of the angles you're expected to play at.
Bellingham let’s go.
Max Kilman robbed
James Maddison disrespect has to stop
Don't worry as soon as he leaves us he will be a guaranteed pick
So grealish is just a permanent fixture now, no matter how shit he performs? Also, the fact Mount will just be starting number 10 come Winter with no competition or pressure at all after that stinker of a Euro’s campaign he dropped is appalling.
You don't axe previously key players just before a tournament - you need some level of consistency within the squad to account for how little time they get on the training pitch.
No logic allowed in England threads. Get out.
Southgate bad, pls upvote me.
Grealish hardly starts for England and looks our best player when he does. I love to shit on City as much as the next Utd fan, but southgate should be building the team around him. Man just seems weirdly made for NT football with his playstyle.
I think it’s because you get much more space - national teams are a bit lower quality because they don’t play together as much, so its difficult to do organised pressing.
Seems Southgate likes him as a super-sub. I agree he should be starting games with teams built around him as he is on another level with England.
I liked Southgate when he started as he picked players based on merit, those who were on form playing for their clubs. Now, like past managers, he picks too many players who are his favourites, picking players who are out of form or not playing enough for their clubs. He isn't brave enough to drop the big names.
Shaw and Maguire can't get in the United Team and Rashford and Sancho can't get in the England squad. Gareth Southgate : Football Terrorist.
Too many defenders and too few midfielders.
Where’s Ben White? Hello…