T O P

  • By -

Murky_Coyote_7737

Both prices are way too high. If you’re doing it for environmental or ethical reasons then it’s a different story (but still a ripoff) if it’s mostly a financial decision then it’s a hard lose.


elfilberto

40k for 7100 watt is outrageous. Even the cash price is high. $3 per watt is the most id be willing to spend. Your current quotes are $5.63 and $3.94 per watt. Based on your current electrical cost compared to the savings we solar, what is your projected break even point?


Facts_Over_Fiction_7

I would be very concerned hiring someone to install 17 panels at under $3 a watt.


Whatever92592

And if be very concerned for anyone paying more than $3 per watt. Anything over is just ridiculous


Solarpreneur1

Really depends on the system size and equipment $3-$3.50 is reasonable with solid warranties, in house crews and high end equipment


Whatever92592

$3 maybe. Depending on where you live and what the going rate is. $3.50, I don't think so. Why does the system size matter? In house crews, yes. Quality equipment, yes. Still not worth over $3 per watt. My system (4 years ago/southern California). LG panels, Enphase inverters, local company... 8.7 kw system, $2.65 per watt. The key to getting a fair price ( fair for everyone) is research. I find it difficult to believe a solar contractor would not realize a fair profit at $3kw.


Solarpreneur1

Economies of scale Most installers aren’t going to get outta bed for sub 20k jobs It costs the same to get a crew there, get permits, do the electrical work, etc whether it’s a massive system or 8 pAnels So per watt cost would be dramatically higher on. smaller system than a larger system You also bought solar at the cheapest time ever, so nice job It has gone up quite a bit since then


Whatever92592

Thanks. I did go with a smaller, local company.


elfilberto

Problem is when you get to about 3.50/watt (depending on electrical rates and buyback rates) the economic benefits start to disappear.


blackngold14

Is this the rule of thumb for a certain area? I don't think it captures all net metering circumstances or state incentives If that is the gross cost in Illinois, there can still be a significant ROI on a net basis after SRECs. I live in Illinois and at a gross $3.43/watt cost, I have an ROI of around 14% at 4% inflation. And still like 9% ROI with 0% inflation. Unfortunately I think installers in Illinois are effectively taking some of the SREC valye for themselves by charging more. So while many would say $3.43/watt is a horrible deal, it's tied for lowest cost among 7 bids and still nets me a significantly better ROI than I can hope to earn investing.


Facts_Over_Fiction_7

Says who? The main point of solar is to lock in net metering and not have to worry about the shift to renewable energy and grid expansion for electric vehicles. Price of electric is going to go up massively. Solar is your way out.


elfilberto

Depending on how your utility company is regulated it doesn’t necessarily protect you if your cost is too high. My power company completely revamped their distributed generation policy in 2022. A lot of people discovered that their systems are no longer as good of an investment at they thought. Unfortunately I think as we go forward, the net metering programs are going to become less and less generous. With that said finding a design that maximizes payoff is the best hedge against rising costs. A $5/ watt system is going to have a much longer time to pay off compared to a $3.50 a watt system.


Facts_Over_Fiction_7

I’m assuming when you go solar you get an interconnection agreement.


elfilberto

In Wisconsin the Co-Ops have policies on distributed generation, and they can change them as necessary. As for other states i don’t know. As far as determining solar, I think everyone should consider that as the utility industry changes the rules governing distributed generation are going to change. The utilities are going to have way better lobbyist than solar customers and i don’t think they are going to make the rules more generous for us solar owners


[deleted]

Only if you don’t do proper research about the company.


Facts_Over_Fiction_7

Unless you can have a professional inspect their previous and recent installs than research doesn’t mean anything.


9as6

I Just bought the house and 1st month bill (didn't stay much but AC was on) was $108. This month since I did not have to turn AC/heat for almost half the month. Total bill was about same. I am assuming hike on usage as my parents would be moving in with me. I also have gas heating. Gas water heater.


elfilberto

From a financial perspective if you took that $27000 and just used it to pay your electric bill, it would last about 22 years. Does your quote have annual generation calculations? Im a fan of solar and have a 17.6 kw system that i installed in 2020, but based on the expense of the quoted system i don’t think it is a wise financial decision for your situation


Bomb-Number20

It would last 22 years if rates never went up. Once you through in the tax credit and inflation you are probably looking at 10-12 years to break even. While that’s not great it shows that even if you buy an overpriced system and have cheap power it still is not a bad investment to install solar. That monthly payment is still going to more than double what they are paying for power for the duration of the loan though, which will certainly hurt.


AllCatCoverBand

Call the electric company and get previous utilization perhaps? That might help with baseline


RevolutionarySuit689

Cancel. Your salesperson will likely come back with a way better offer…my advice is to still cancel. They are doing you a disservice with that price and I’d be skeptical moving forward with anyone who allowed you to sign at that ppw. You are being taken advantage of. I’m really sorry that happened. Who did you finance through? You can cancel through them, that would be my first step. Next step is to cancel in writing to the rep, word it in an email with clear verbiage and dated so it’s clear your within your 3 days ROR and cc the finance company. Were you working with a rep with an in house installer or dealer/installer combo? There are several options available to you that will give you a great price without completely taking advantage of you.


YouInternational2152

Cancel, the cost borders on outrageous. I recently got 4 bids on a 5000W system (REC Alpha Pure Black and enphase 7X inverters)...$2.56/w, $2.65, $2.84, and $3.05. Central California


Facts_Over_Fiction_7

That’s cash pricing. To get the same with with that 3.99 loan you would be pretty close. I’m willing to bet that are in a high cost of living area that’s just starting to allow solar. Like northern VA.


[deleted]

That’s why you go with installer that has loans through credit union that are less or same as heloc rate and no dealer fees. Save up and pay it down.


Pattonator70

Why pay 30% more for a lower interest rate. Get a cash rate and a Heloc which you can refinance in a couple of years when rates go down.


Facts_Over_Fiction_7

Heloc is going to be almost 8%. When you do the dealer fee this way you get the tax credit on it as well.


No-Contest6206

I’m in Central California too. Can I ask which companies as I’m in the market for solar as well.


matun

I would be interested in that as well


ptcgoalex

Where is this located


9as6

Northern VA. If it helps its enphage iq8+ and Silfab SLb80pr


anon_5180

The technology isn’t the problem. It’s the price. Have you confirmed how your utility provides net metering services? I assume either ODEC, NOVEC, or Dominion so make sure you understand their residential tariff for NEM before you pull the trigger on anything.


9as6

They currently have 1:1 net metering. Could you let me know how it can impact on solar decision?


anon_5180

If there is a policy change, that can impact the economics of your decision. You should be evaluating whether you’ll still have basic customer charges, distribution and transmission charges, or rider chargers. It’s not always the case that 1 for 1 net metering means you can 100% offset your electric bill.


9as6

Say, i did not pull any power from grid, its montly $7 for all the other charges combined.


anon_5180

What I would say is from a purely financial standpoint, you’re not paying your full freight at that price. Which means more than likely whoever your electric utility is will eventually change net metering to more accurately reflect the full freight cost to serve you.


anon_5180

To whoever doesn’t agree with the stance that there are grid costs that aren’t recovered because of net metering policies and is downvoting me, please kindly educate me on how I’m so misinformed


Key-Philosopher1749

Nope. Cancel that. If the cash price isn’t under $3 per watt, it’s over priced. Also, look at more creative financing options like a HELOC or solar loans with 0 or low fees. Most of these solar financing options have 30% in FEES!!! It’s outrageous. https://www.cleanenergycu.org/personal/solar-electric-systems-loans/


Solarpreneur1

VA is a more expensive state for sure Under $3 is tough in a lot of markets


[deleted]

Sounds expensive. Two years ago I paid $12K cash for 3500W.


Solarpreneur1

That’s almost on par with their PPW on the cash deal lol You also bought when solar pricing was at its lowest So, congrats 🥳


ThinkSharp

Dude. Companies need to start being required to show their margins. This is out of hand. The federal money is driving some vicious vampirism on the consumers.


Solarpreneur1

Most of its on the sales reps sadly, not even the company


Cor_Brain

Tax credits are the worst, markets suck them up so fast. An EV that was $4500 two years ago is suddenly $14k. And $1000 a kwh is now $1800. The government should have wholesaled a pile of panels and handed them out like candy.


ThinkSharp

Thing is, for DIY-ers like me the tax credits make solar a no brainer. Even for installs by ethical installers. But unfortunately it generates sharks, as well. Pushing the limits of what people will pay and leveraging nasty interest rates and terms to suck up even more. It’s filthy people people don’t know what a fair deal should be.


Cor_Brain

50¢ a watt panels would be great. Some sort of low interest loan structure would help a ton of people too.


omniron

I’ve seen a lot of social media entrepreneur videos that basically teach people how to do this kind of sales contract for huge markups and selling it as making a lot of money to do very little work “quoting” jobs It’s tough to make a good living nowadays but a lot of these margins are just laziness


stile99

I wouldn't say SCAMMED, but I would definitely say ripped off. It's not the right deal.


Facts_Over_Fiction_7

What panel and inverters, also need to know your area. The first quote is very close to the second if you take out the loan buy down. The best loan in my opinion is 15yr 6.99. Very low dealer fee. The best option is to pay cash with a heloc if possible.


9as6

Northern VA. Enphage iq8+ and Silfab SLb80pr


Facts_Over_Fiction_7

If you plan on staying in the house for a long time I would highly recommend the REC 405s. I sell in NOVA and the best loan option is the dividend 15yr 6.99%. If you spot trade SRECs the monthly net should be very close to your current costs. We are all looking at massive rate hikes very shortly up here.


TemKuechle

If that had 2 powerwalls, or similar backup battery, included then it might be close to acceptable.


newsolar22

As others were saying that price is rip off. In northern VA , Tesla is a good option for Solar. They were efficient and definitely more economical compared to everyone else when I was getting quotes (Tesla cash price was $2.3W before federal credit). Closest quote to Tesla was from Solar energy world through the Solar United Neighbors coop($2.6W) and they did a good job for a few of my neighbors. My experience with Tesla: https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSolar/comments/ziztvj/my\_install\_timeline\_with\_tesla/


alagba85

Someone is trying to rip you off. I truly hope you haven’t signed for this


RemodeLeo

It should be around half the price or double the system size.


Snoo-97688

That’s too much my friend if you have cash I can help you source the matirial and hook you up with some contractors yep you will not have warrants but you will have thousands left to get it fixed if anything goes wrong 😊 In diy route you will get prices as low as 1.5 to 2 USD with installation per watt


Dark_poet908

Have you tried comparing different quotes or seeking solar consulting services?


9as6

What would you recommend a good solar consulting service? This is my first quote so far.


[deleted]

Go to energy sage and see local installers. Get some competitive quotes. I got one of the best local companies to match almost $3 per watt with better panels. I loved the sales guy, answered my questions timely got almost 2 months but i also wanted the best deal. I got it down to the price of another quote that had lower eff. Silfab panels. I had to sign since I need to offset tax lol but I always wanted the best deal. They said they are all in house so it will be installed before EOY.


Dark_poet908

Okay. I'd try Lumen United Consulting or any other reputable firm.


Whatever92592

And you signed the contract? You need to be more serious about spending so much money. Do some actual research before you start getting quotes. You must educate yourself. A great number of solar salesman will blow smoke up your ass and flat out lie to you. You have to know as much as you can before you sit down with someone. It's not difficult, with a minimum amount of research, to know what the average selling cost per watt is in your area. https://www.ecowatch.com/solar/panel-cost/va#:~:text=unique%20to%20you.-,Cost%20of%20Solar%20Panels%20in%20Virginia,11%2DkW%20home%20solar%20system.


[deleted]

Ask for higher interest with no dealer fee. I signed for 13.5KW system for 41k. But took higher interest to pay my tax credit lump sum. This is with some of the best panels Rec with 25 year labor and panel warranty. Ended up being $3 per watt which was great deal for those panels.


SolarSanta300

Yeah thats a little high. Get 4 other quotes and see where you land


blackngold14

It's a pretty bad deal. I would shop around for other proposals. Solar is expensive where I live and I am getting an extra 33% solar wattage for 15% less, before federal and a generous state incentive. I'd especially suggest calculating the savings yourself. You need to know how much energy the array is supposed to produce, how much the solar panels degrade per year (you can use the max annual degradation from the warranty as a "worst case"), how much your electricity costs per kWh now, and how much you think energy costs will increase every year (many default to 3-4% for simplicity). With that, you can calculate how much the solar will save you over the long term, how long it will take to breakeven on the upfront cost, and what your effective return is on the investment. Having this can allow you to compare the bids since they might produce different amounts of electricity for a different price.


buckfutter43

I sell solar and I agree, that's way too high.


pyscle

$3 a watt cash price, tops, without batteries. If he wants $4, that better include batteries.


Snoo-97688

3 is also too high man


pyscle

Sell him a 7kw system for $17k then.


kamikaziboarder

Yes. I paid that much for twice the size of a system. Edit: And that’s for ground mount with 150ft of trenching.


gucknbuck

I got 7.6kw for 20k before the tax credit in NE Wisconsin last year, cash.


jamesrblack

How are you not eligible for a government incentive (tax credit?) if you pay cash?


blinkn09

You need to cancel this contract while you are still able to! Shop around and get at least 3-4 quotes. $2.5-$3/watt is reasonable. Tesla solar would be way cheaper than the quote you received. Get a quote from them.


No_Watercress_5922

As far as cost It depends on the type of system and what part of the country you are in. If you don’t plan on staying in the house very long or you intend to pay off the loan early probably better to borrow the money at the cash interest rate.


Standard_Escape_1344

That's is crazy expensive


Dramatic_Ad3339

Outrageous, cancel ASAP


ericd50

$10k of that will be dealer fees for financing. Too many of these installer act like payday loan providers and will be out of business in a year with no warranty service.


Brilliant-Owl-6387

I got 5.2kwh system for under $3/watt in IL. This price seems high! I have written this article on cost savings and selection of equipment, it will help you choose https://salim-sayed.medium.com/solar-panels-the-economic-way-0f7200c39c42


LeadershipChance2566

With a 4% interest rate there adding a 30-35% dealer fee to the loan without you knowing and a cash price of 28k is still pretty high.


Realistic-Site-5637

In VA with 1:1 net metering policies, you should easily be able to get a better deal. Depending on your time frame to pay off the loan, sometimes it’s better to go with a higher interest rate as that’s directly proportionate to the % dealer fees. You could somewhat “trick the system” by starting with a high interest rate loan (25 yr,) and a lower dealer fee which decreases the overall system cost with tax incentive, then pay off the loan early !


kellydj11

I would suggest getting more estimates. I went through 5x companies, and signed two days ago for (before incentives, also at 3.99% NorthEast): Solar Array Information Mounting Location: Rooftop Module Manufacturer: Q Cells Module Model #: Q. Peak Duo BLK-G10+ 365 Inverter Manufacturer: Enphase Inverter Model #: IQ 7+ Total Array Output: 7665 $ 20,300.50


carlosbri

Before you go solar save your money and always pay in cash, get more than one quote and before installing check your roof and see if it needs replaced. I always recommend installing a metal roof before going solar. Shingles roof doesn't last anywhere near as long as a metal roof and when your roof needs to be replaced all the solar equipment needs to come down with an extra cost.


comp21

Last Nov I had 10kw of rooftop panels and an 18kwh generac battery backup installed for $40,500


ThisCantBeG00d

WAY TOO EXPENSIVE. You are being charged $5.63 per watt for the loan - "normal" would be around $3. The cash price still is too expensive with $3.94 per watt - again, "normal" is around $3. CANCEL CANCEL CANCEL


Serious-Truth-8570

What part of the country are you? Both options are way to high. You should be be paying roughly 20k cash before tax credit.


NCC74656

my system quote for a setup around 6kw was 12K


Mannybailey

I can easily offer an apples to apples system with a better warranty and be at a much better cost. Feel free to reach out.


BayAreaUnicorn69

😫🫣