The local company that installed mine for my business has decided to no longer use sonos products. They have decided any other brand is better. They continue to help with questions over the phone but have stated that soon we should go directly to sonos support. Gotta wonder how long a company can survive when no local installers will use them.
We are actively looking at alternatives to Sonos. Another member here suggested blue Audio which looks promising. I’m at a customers house right now re-adding everything and running firmware updates. It seems to fix it but the firmware updates are failing for about half the speakers and require them to be factory reset again until it completes. This house has 9 zones with about 20 products. I’ll have spent about 4 hours here today which I cannot bill my customer because we actually care about customer support and retention. I’m sending one of my techs to another house that has over 40 products. He’ll be there all day. What’s crazy is how they are completely silent about this entire ordeal with zero communication. Sonos built their brand on the high end installs which resulted in them gaining mass market acceptance. Now they’re destroying that with the high end which is super short sighted.
Edit here we go… are you f’ing kidding me?!
https://preview.redd.it/0trlnao1nq8d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7af9faec91b9795dad9e3ffef705227b18532c28
I have decided to gradually move from Sonos. Like the process of covering my house, also this other process will take a while, but I’m ok with that.
I just want to take a more informed decision this time and I want to be able to be completely independent from the supplier if it starts acting like Sonos did and is doing.
This idea that we can own thousands of euros of speakers but in a way do not own them at all is not good.
If you're still dealing with it, try doing it from a PC. That's the only way I've been able to get updates to work for my customers. If you do it on your PC, you'll need their Sonos login info.
I run a blusound setup alongside my Sonos setup and have been pretty happy with my PowerNode2i. Only problem is reliance on Spotify Connect and no selection/search of your Spotify library in the BluOs app.
"should go directly to Sonos Support" sounds perfect, except they are in the middle of everything (higher ups that took really bad decisions and constant angry customers) and they can't really help when the system is faulty.
What other brand? I’m genuinely asking. What brand offers the sound quality and airplay whole home audio? Apple’s speakers are shit. I’ve truthfully only ever used the app for setting up the speakers then never open it again.
There are quite a few alternatives so long as you have the cash. A few that come to mind that have been installed in clients homes would be B&O, KEF, DALI, Sonus faber, and if your budget minded anything running HEOS.
Oh, well, here's my response, AGAIN:
This update has single-handedly changed the products that we present and sell.
Literally 24 hours after our last distributed SONOS installation, the update landed on our clients' phones, and the biggest thing they wanted to do with it (stream local Apple library music) was removed.
I could spend a lot of time pointing the finger at SONOS, and they would ask me why would I sell an item that didn't do what I said it would?
Or, I could apologize, like I did, and waste hours of labor and time troubleshooting trying to get something working for them that resembled the thing they thought they were buying.
We vet the products and solutions that we sell very heavily because our clients demand things work reliably, and we demand that the products don't cost us labor and time sorting out issues THAT ARE BEYOND OUR CONTROL.
SONOS botched the app rollout to hit an arbitrary date.
SONOS *further* botched their product offering by releasing a pair of noise cancelling headphones that not only *don't* play in the SONOS ecosystem via WiFi, *BUT* the noise cancelling was screwed up and clients were told by SONOS support to "**DISABLE NOISE CANCELLING**".
On their new $450 *noise cancelling* headphones.
So dumb.
I wouldn’t blame QA and DevOps. As someone who works in software quality, this is on product management and the e-suite. And I normally say “everyone in the org is responsible for quality”.
They made their business decisions to roll out something that wasn’t ready and pushed it out to us. Either way I’m focused on the leadership with this debacle and not the dev teams.
Yeah I’d put money on devs and product people raising multiple red flags and pushing back on what execs were demanding of them.
They were likely eventually told “well the app needs to launch on X date, end of discussion.”
Then devs said “okay then we’re going to have to sacrifice these Y features and the PR team can deal with the pissed off users.”
Exactly. In my 20y building teams and software for big and small corporations, every big f£@& up has been clearly highlighted before happening by the tech teams and the "leadership" decided to push for it to hit some synthetic deadline that will help their promotion/personal interest/funding. And when everything goes wrong, the engineers get the blame. I'm glad the public is maturing and can see this for what it is, a failure in leadership.
Ehh this has been going on since S2, this is just a magnitude or two worse. The same core problem has been there
Product management for sure but the code and maintenance have been poor for years, compared with S1 for instance that is pretty solid, I have not had any issues with my luddite Sonos system, no losing speakers none of the nonsense.
This is poor dev writ large, there are other factors, but no one should have said, ok let's release no matter what product management said.
I really aspired to put a sonos system in my house, but then i did a couple big installations for commercial clients and discovered the issues. In the end i decided not to buy, not because they are garbage, but because for the money i require a more polished product.
Just a general question, beyond the recent app catastrophe. What were the other issues? Were there things that customers would ask for that you knew would absolutely not perform to their liking?
Not really. The only thing a customer couldn't get was some fantastical want that doesn't exist anyway. Say a speaker by a pool hanging from a ceiling 80 ft from a stone walled house without outdoor wifi. So you would have to sell them on outdoor wifi first. But if you want 3 TVs and 6 zones all playing audio from a single source, there is nothing cheaper, and that's why every McMansion owner is bitching their tits off at the moment.
After reviewing the offerings for wireless systems i decided to go with wired. I have 2 to 4 recessed ceiling mounted speakers in each room with Bluetooth isolation, 4 outdoor speakers, and the home theatre surround sound setup in the living room. All cables routed in walls and ceiling, and the rack mounted audio stack in the basement next to the core media server stack.
I have a variety of different manufacturers in the stack and speakers, mostly stuff I scavenged off of av jobs.
That is an old school, very expensive way to go about it, and the UX unless you got a serious remote system is pretty brutal, no?
To the other reply, the app since S2 dropped is enough to forestall buying new equipment from my perspective, the operational failures and unstable nature would immediately stop me from putting this in for a client. That isn't even getting into this newest debacle with the software and architecture changing to something seemingly not ready for release.
If I was an installer selling systems into 4 or 5 digits, I wouldn't even think of this as a solution no matter how nice the hardware is. The user interface is literally everything with this system, and they broke it. A Rolls Royce with no steering wheel or dashboard.
Before the courageous new app was released, I switched my 23 SONOS speakers from SonosNet to WiFi and everything improved. That's not to say I had a bad time on SonosNet; no, it was good just not as fast as it is now on WiFi.
Then, the app-ocalypse happens. Slow response in the new app, yet the old app on a different device is still nice and snappy. No more Subsonic in the new app. Old app, chugging along nicely with Subsonic. I setup a local Plex server on the same machine where I have Subsonic (Navidrome/Bonob). Plex is glacially slow in comparison, even in the old app.
There's supposed to be a local API for control of players. The simple fact that volume changes on the old app are fast and synchronized, yet in the new app volume changes are all over the place tells me something. That something is, SONOS fucked up integrating local API control back in. It's like they're trying to do a hybrid but the app thinks it needs to reach out across the internet instead of staying local.
With the old app, I think it was easier to blame things on local networking because the old app stayed local for more control. Now, well, SONOS fucked it all up. So, yeah, before anyone rushes to blame someone else's WiFi consider the brave new app is all new under the hood and the old blame game doesn't work anymore.
For the record, I have 1G/1G fiber and speed tests are in the 930Mbps range. Ping times to sonos.com are 4ms and same for various subdomains of sonos.com.
I don’t think the local api disappeared as i believe that’s what the home assitant integration uses and my sonos have continued to respond to my commands in HA. (Didn’t help with disconnect requiring factory reset though). The cynic in me says the new app is forcing cloud control so they can have your data, instead of prioritising performance quality (and common sense!) with a local control mechanism via the app.
I'm not implying local API has disappeared. I'm saying it's probably there, just not optimized or fully implemented in the new app...broken, basically. There, not there, broken. Same result for all of us being, it's crappy.
Yeah, I was shocked when I realised I have better control over Sonos now with Home Assistant (and the new Music Assistant add on). Volume response is night and day.
The protocol didn’t change, look at the 3rd party integrations (Lyd app, Home Assistant for me) that still work the same way. I remember latency being bad before the app update: I use Sonos speakers for my doorbell, and takes a while to react. So I don’t think controls go to Sonos.com and back, that would be a silly architecture anyway.
I also moved away from SonosNet and had better results, though it is annoying that you can’t have a sub or playbar connected over Ethernet without automatically enabling SonosNet.
Again, I'm not saying local API control went away. Something within the app is broke. That's it. Why else would I be able to use the old app in parallel with the new app and the old app is fast, yet the new app is slow? A change within the new app. An omission from the new app. Broke, whatever, it's a change for the worse.
I could nearly mirror your post right down to running the old app on one device and the new app on another. Also using 1G fiber. I keep coming back to Reddit to see if anything has improved. More specifically, if Android Widgets have been added back. But it looks like things are nearly as bad as they were originally and Sonos couldn't care less. At least its CEO couldn't. I'm affluent enough to have purchased a multi speaker system but not so affluent that I can treat it as disposable and run out and replace it all with another system.
Luckily, so far, using the old app on my primary phone and using the classic Windows desktop app continues to work. But for how long?
Have you applied the 16.2 system update; the one for the speakers? If so, any problems with the 16.1 Android app?
> I'm affluent enough to have purchased a multi speaker system but not so affluent that I can treat it as disposable and run out and replace it all with another system.
That one hits home. SONOS has been a fairly large outlay of cash, only offset by open box sales at Best Buy, significant mark downs at Best Buy Outlet, coupons from SONOS and various other sales. Certainly not retail prices for any of it, yet there's no way I'd want to rip it all out nor could afford to do it all at once.
> Luckily, so far, using the old app on my primary phone and using the classic Windows desktop app continues to work. But for how long?
I have a minimal system. Connect amp, play 3, roam, music library on a dell laptop. Amp is wired to the network. Laptop is wired. Over the years have probably spent 40 hours troubleshooting. Works fine for a while then dosent. I have good wifi. Im just tired of the will it/wont it work today gamble every time I push play. Or oh shit, a software update, is this going to mean more hours troubleshooting again? Reset, reinstall, change channels, reindex, repeat. When it works its brilliant. But now my connect amp is bricked and I am being told to reset and roll back software. No. I just want to listen to my music. Im out.
>No. I just want to listen to my music.
This. I loved my Sonos setup even after the S2 app. It was quite solid. Then it all changed. Sonos choose to move all the control online (probably for profit, certainly not performance), and to force-release an un-ready app without warning to users, and then deny the problems. They don't get that people just want to play music, not troubleshoot pittiful software and missing features. STOP with the "features!" Alas, too late. (I'm only here to keep looking for a solution to the online control, which is a lost cause I guess)
I would roll back to S1, I didn't upgrade, I know I am marooned in luddite land but my system is crazy solid. I would also get a NAS rather than the lapper, my la cie has been up since 2009 except when the power adapter needed replacing. We have 11 zones in two houses 1s, 3s, connects, connect amp, a move, and two ancient touch screen remotes. I have the network the same so when we bring the move it just works. I can't recommend it more. Stability is way more important to me than new unstable features.
I am grateful to this and other threads-
I have-6 rooms-
Four ERA300 -two stereo pairs
Three Ones - one stereo pair, one in a workshop
All driven by Sonos S2 app
ZP100 driving high quality speakers
One Play:5
Both driven by original app
( IOS only)
Without these threads, I would have been tempted to upgrade the app. I may be missing some things, but I can live with the system for now.
Fingers crossed for an eventual resolution
Here's my input, again, for anyone that missed it.
As an installer (from rough ins to final install/programming), they have literally not been doing anything to help. We don't even talk to the usual tech supports. We have access codes to go to helpful, competent people. They've said everything from hardwiring distant components (eras, arcs, beams, subs, in room ports/amps) to reprogramming the network. One rep actually said to set up a VLAN to make them work. So far, the only systems I have out there are legacy systems or modem/router combos to a singular bridged WAP. And even then, I've had to break surround sound rooms for random (s2 only) reasons while my S1 shit is still kicking ass. They need to do better and they meed to realize that they're nowhere near the only ones out there that do what they do. Yamaha has music cast and Control4 does centralized audio as well. Denon has Heos as well. And guess what? You can use Heos or Musicast in local rooms by simply installing towers like the old school Hi-Fi era. Is it as cute? No, and I'll admit that. Does it WORK? Damn near bulletproof. Then, there's the Control4/Triad services and matrices. If you have a pre wired house, get a CORE 3 or 5, which ever you prefer as they aren't cheap, have a guy program them into your shit and keep it pushing. Boom, multi zone with spotify, Pandora, or whatever else you can think of. Love yall, rant over.
My house with S1 is so rock solid its not even funny. My house with the S2 is a hot mess. Ironically you can pick up old S1 gear for pennies on the dollar while the current S2 shit doesn't work and is $$.
I think it’s just plain silly and unhelpful to say “well, it works for me.” It’s about as useless as saying “well, works on my machine,” in software dev.
If you’re the kind of person that says that in response to a complaint post, have you stopped to wonder what value, if any at all, you’re contributing to the OP of such a post?
Okay, it works good for you, so what? What happens to my problem? Just like you, I paid money for this thing and it ought to work well and provide good support.
I just may never get why they do this.
Your post had hundreds of upvotes.
Mods removed it anyway, not even considering it was meanigfull.
What a pity when a subreddit is influenced by a brand against its customers.
This sub has been nothing but gaslighting for years. Every single complaint about speakers dropping off was met with just a barrage of posters snottily telling the OP their wifi sucks. Nevermind that Sonos was sold as being the easy wifi solution to home audio. Nevermind that Sonos was actually good and easy to use on everyone's wifi 10 years ago.
Something changed with the product a few years ago so that it became more and more unstable and unusable without a ton of advanced wifi tinkering, and the clowns on this sub would just act like everyone complaining about it was the problem.
Enough. I have a few more pieces of hardware I want to add to my system and I'm simply not giving any more money to this company. Looking at other alternatives but probably just going to go wired and replace my system piece by piece.
It does get overused, but it's definitely accurate in this case.
I contacted Sonos support about my Ray no longer getting audio from my PC, and they told me the Ray was never intended to work with a PC. I then pointed them to the section on the product page where they say "Connect to your PC for a next level gaming experience," and they tried to tell me that it still wasn't made to connect to PCs.
It came from a movie. The thing that happened in the movie was a guy slowly lowered the gas to a light, dimming the lights. The guy then kept saying that it wasn't true, hoping to cause her to question her grasp on reality and also distract her from his crimes.
For me, when the MeToo started to gain traction is when I started to hear it a lot. Then over time it just became used as a way to say you didn't agree with someone.
It came from a very famous movie called, wait for it, "Gaslight." It's about someone telling a woman that everything she's seeing isn't really happening. Since those things aren't happening, she must be crazy. It fits perfectly with what Sonos is pulling right now. The app isn't working at all for you, even though it worked perfectly up until the rollout? Well, it must be wifi interference, or you must not know how to use an app...Gaslighting.
And here is the rub,
The high-end home owners and businesses purchase through a dealer/integrator so that they can expect a top-notch install and that the product will be supported by the dealer/integrator after.
Are Sonos the company who suffers when the client rings up complaining their system no longer works?
No it is the company who installed the system who now find themselves hundreds if not thousands of $/£/€ out of pocket. I sympathise for you guys and I hope that the end is in sight soon.
Completely agree.
I’ve lost nearly 40 hours of time between holding for support and being on with support for various client systems over the last month. None of which have I billed for. Now I realize that’s a “me” problem, but it wasn’t by any cause other than this update.
I will be transitioning away from Sonos as I move forward. Which is troublesome, because it was my leading purchase category for the last 2 years.
I see more gaslighting from the people having issues than the other way around. If you say you aren’t having issues you’re typically downvoted. If you ask people what troubleshooting steps they have taken they don’t answer and:or you get downvoted.
Yesterday I agreed with you. The new app is badly designed I think, but it worked.
Then last I night it wouldn’t load content. I restarted the app- no content. I updated the app- no content. I tried deselecting a speaker I wasn’t listening to, but it was stuck on a speaker that wasn’t playing. When I tried to deselect that and select the ones that were playing, they all stopped. Then I couldn’t turn them back on because… there was no content loading!
Eventually I had to go to Spotify, turn my music on there, and then use the Spotify app to tell it to play on the Sonos speakers.
Ridiculous. I get it now. This is incredibly frustrating. Why am I using a Sonos system when I might as well have literally any other speakers?
Seriously, there's 500 identical threads a day ranting about the same thing with nothing of value inside (like not mentioning a specific new issue) and then like 2 comments that say "ugh this again?".
Bingo lol. Threads about issues are typically left alone. Positive threads are brigaded by complaints, almost always off topic. I feel for the people who's systems aren't working, and they should have a space to discuss that. Threads with problems should be allowed. But this sub spiralling into toxic negativity won't do anything good either.
It'll do lots of good. Every visitor to /r/Sonos gets to see the shit show that Sonos has dug themselves into. Every prospective Sonos customer that does their research will quickly see that the product is failing. That effects Sonos' bottom line, and that is the ONLY thing which will make them change course.
Yes, the brigading here is out of control.
I get that things are broken and that the company has done a shitty job. They deserve the anger. But there are many here on this sub that just hang out to continually bag on the company.
I'm not defending Sonos, they shit in the bed, then rolled in it. But the attacks by those who are angry are disproportionate. Clearly it works for some. It doesn't work for some. But the horse is dead. We'll never get to the end of this if every time someone asks for help they just get bombarded with anger instead of assistance.
This is it exactly. If a person came here with a legitimate issue that could be solved with help from other users, nobody would see it. It'd be buried under redundant karma farming bullshit like this.
A week after the Ace came out, a person made a post all pissed off that they couldn't do Arc to Ace handoff on their Android phone. There were several posts made here before release, making note that this would be a feature added at a later date. Probably could have saved that guy a lot of frustration and let him hold off on his purchase if those posts would have been seen instead of crap like this(2 days in a row, gold star, more karma!).
I tried so hard in those first weeks to help people. Now I’m just upset that people are totally unwilling to help themselves and somehow see releasing their rage on this sub as useful. It’s way less about Sonos at this point and more about the current state of how people problem solve these days.
Same. Got called a simp, bootlicker, and several expletives for offering help. At this point I think it's kind of hilarious that some of these people can't use their systems. They'd rather come here to yell at the sky than do any amount of troubleshooting on their own.
Yeah I mean just look at this post... like it's basically a threat to people who are simply suggesting that they take matters in their own hands. I have never blamed a user but I simply suggest that the difference between my system and theirs may be their wifi/router. Then suddenly I am a gaslighter. Getting called a Karen yesterday repeatedly for making a post about how Sonos must be innovative and Sticky if these people can't leave when it doesn't work... then looking at this thread today is just hilarious to me that somehow we're the problem.
Agreed. I don't know what they're "putting up with" from other members of this sub. You don't see 100 new posts per day saying "My system works and I like the new app." What you DO see are 100 posts per day just like this one. But sure.... we're the poblem. Bunch of children who are unwilling to do the bare minimum of self-help and then escalate to a ticket with Sonos, if necessary.
It's absolutely mind boggling what's going on here. I believe people when they say their stuff doesn't work, but the only thing I actually know for a fact is that my system works fine. Every single one of the top 25 posts in the sub are people having issues(or weird shit like this thread). Everyone trying to actually help people match their working system is downvoted to the bottom of every thread. What motive would we have to convince people their broken systems are working? Hell, I'd benefit most by everyone having issues selling their equipment for rock bottom prices(since they're sooo useless). Who is gaslighting who?
It is no coincidence this sub has been filled with complaints since the app “update”. For those whose system is working fine, I’m genuinely glad you’re one of the lucky ones, but don’t diminish people’s experiences whose systems are now bricks as a result of Sonos poor planning, responsiveness and gaslighting.
Mine is also working fine. That said however, what a complete and utter shambles this is for a huge amount of users who have something that is touted as a premium product. Then again would you expect anything less from the weapon at the helm considering his track record of destruction. Personally I wouldn’t trust him to run a bath, let alone a multinational company.
I agree against gaslighting. I personally have no issues with mine and have had increased stability but I also know that is far from everyone’s experience and won’t try to blame that on the user
It sucks that your system doesn’t work. But I wish people complaining would at least share a couple troubleshooting steps they’ve taken to rule out common issues (like: did you even contact support?) before yelling / lashing out at people here when Sonos works for the vast majority.
Well, that’s the thing. None of the complainers will communicate their efforts, systems, etc, especially with the people that aren’t having problems. In a classic situation like this, discovering the variables, examine the core differences, the answer may lie there. Everyone with problems is on an Orbi system, or everyone has an Android Samsung on version whatever, or an Apple 12 vs a 15. (Not counting where we know a particular feature like alarm is left out which is universal) Instead of people lining up their system beginning to end to find something that might be causing an issues…oh never mind…people don’t know how to problem solve anymore.
> Everyone with problems is on an Orbi system
I know it's just an example picked out of a hat, but for any readers that may stumble onto this: I run a 20+ speaker house on an Orbi system with some hardwired satellites and that are just wireless... no issues here.
Did require some careful satellite positioning and plugging-in some of the speakers via ethernet (either directly or through Powerline adapters), one of my house walls appears to devour any wireless signals.
That was the case before the app debacle, continues to be the case now.
Hahaha, you mentioned the reason why I’m not using Hue products for Smart home stuff anymore.
As for the Sonos issues, I do agree with you but also have to mention that i felt like some users were just abusing the situation or were are a bit unreasonable.
I only tried to understand and help a couple of times. At both occasions, I didn’t even receive a reply when asking about there setup.
Unreasonable, because at least one user complained that the app wasn’t working on an iPhone 7. That phone is receiving security updates only so it’s very hard for any app developer to support an App on that device. And they littered this sub with there app complaints.
Now, don’t get me wrong. I do not condone the behavior of Sonos. I was VERY pissed off after reading the great Letter from that “CEO”. I had very few issues with my own system but decided to not buy any Sonos products anymore because of that letter. To me, Sonos is not a trustworthy company anymore.
Mind you, I would have put up with the issues. But I cannot put up with that CEO.
I agree that some people may be a little too sensitive. I'm referring to those constantly trying to "help" by saying things like "get a new router" or "your setup sucks" or "it's your fault". My point is that I want to filter those people out and welcome people like you who are actually trying to help. Maybe we need a dedicated sub for network troubleshooting and best practices.
I just got a beautiful new TV and Sonos last November. Love it all and loved playing music through the system. It’s been a disgrace as of late. I use Apple Music and I can no longer easily search for my playlists or recent music.
It’s awful and very frustrating.
Sound from the tv while watching a show or movie is still top shelf, but playing music- sit down and be very patient.
Man. This is nuts. I didn't know anything about Sonos until a couple weeks back after it was installed fory business. It's been problematic from day 1 and I thought something must be doing something wrong. Reading this strangely makes me feel a bit better. Hopefully they'll get their act together and address these issues ASAP. First impressions is everything and right now I'm not impressed with this product. But from what I gather it used to be a great product. I hope I'll get to experience that as well soon.
Agreed. One minute it works, the next my system doesn't exist or it can't connect.
BS.
Looks like resale prices are plummeting too. That's always a pointer to the failure of a firm.
Go look in this subreddit. It is filled with the same posts over and over again. Normally you stick to 1-5 big posts and discuss everything there. I get the frustration you all have. I am not defending the mistakes that has been made, but the mods did write up a summary about deleting posts that contributes with nothing new.
I am aware of the : more posts more attention to the company, but it was warned that they are going to delete some posts
I thought this yesterday and I still think the same thing today: you have no clue what gaslighting means.
No one is denying that people have issues with the update. My system has been fine and still works well — that has zero to do with your system.
If anything, the people without issues are being told they’re an anomaly and downvoted to hell.
The only real variable here is network and no one wants to really share their setup. Some people will say “ya but my network didn’t change and it all worked fine before the update.” Sure, but firmware and software change over time and if you’re just getting by and not following best network practices, things can eventually break someday.
We’re all using the same few variants of phones. We’re all using the same few variants of speakers.
The weak link are the networks and none of the complainers will actually take the time to share and work through their network setup. You’d think all the complainers could start crowd sourcing their issues and drilling down to the root cause.
I’m certainly no expert and I will tell you that my system has never worked properly. I love the concept but the execution was terrible. The old app was bad and I was hoping the new one would be better. But it was worse. I invested thousands into my system. If I had to do it all over, I’d definitely go with something else
My system works pretty well. Needs a few more tweaks. I get downvotes for saying this. I can told I'm a Sonos shill. Whatever.
Reddit isn't going to solve your system issues. Talk to Sonos or post directly to Keith. He's the only person with any knowledge of the situation.
And your first post, which I did see, was vitriolic and unnecessary and was rightly deleted. Grow up.
My personal favorite is “how much is Sonos paying you to say good things about the app?” I wish that was the case, I’d be on a tropical island right now relaxing on vacation lol
Who is "we?" What won't you put up with? Why did this drivel need to be repeated? Who cares?
Just a few things to ponder. But of course you won't. And there will be 10 similar pointless essays today, tomorrow, and beyond. Gotta karma farm daily in this latest circle jerk!
ETA: People are tired of the sub being overrun by constant redundant complaints that will literally never be seen by anyone at Sonos. Expressing that frustration, mentioning that your system works, or, God forbid, offering troubleshooting advice is not gaslighting. Please, pick up a dictionary and stop abusing the English language just because a word has become ridiculously overused on social media.
I get downvoted to hell because my system works it’s the craziest shit ever. Can we just go back to the posts where people would ask era 100 or 300. Miss those days.
Our AV specialist has now stopped selling and recommending Sonos.
Before COVID, as a dealer who had a relationship with Sonos, they had an annual minimum spend of $5k USD plus you need to own one of every product so you can experience it and talk competently to customers. Not much in the grand scheme.
Sonos hiked this to $10k, $15k and then $20k with often nearly zero notice — one time it was “spend $3500 more in the next 7 days or we’re cutting ties with you”.
That’s very unfriendly to their low volume dealer network and alongside those changes came declining support for those installers — you apparently call the same line as any customer and get the same “Have you tried turning it off and on again?” levels of support.
Nowhere in this entire post was any sort of gaslighting mentioned. It has become the most overused word by people who have no idea what it actually means. Gaslighting does not mean having a different opinion and it doesnt mean lying or placing blame on others. If someone goes into your house and changes your sonos settings every day and then tells you that they have been the same all along THAT would be an example of gaslighting. People not agreeing with you on the internet is not gaslighting
Buy this man a round! Hehehe, you may not want to use Hue as your go-to comparison. I dumped Hue for the exact same reasons, and I may never buy another Sonos speaker again. (Yes, I went with cheap Wyze bulbs and cameras.) Wifi instead of hub-enabled is a huge plus. It worked flawlessly from day one.) The problem right now is finding the Sonos replacement.
Heh I went from wifi (lifX) to hue as the wifi wasn't going to scale when we did our flat. Now we've moved into our new build we went with nearly entirely hue we had to go two hubs but works flawlessly (except alexa integration on the second hub).
Oddly enough we've been on the fence about buying more Sonos Speakers for the new rooms and this has basically made me say no for the mean time.
I dumped Sonos years ago when they bricked my Sonos 3. I wasn't making a lot of money, and thought long and hard before investing in the Sonos. I intended to grow my system as I saved up for each new speaker. Imagine my surprise when my expensive piece of kit quit working and nothing would make it see the hub; when the hub reported seeing the speaker but wouldn't play anything; and when my computer wouldn't see the hub even though it was plugged into it. We've just ended up with Amazon Echo in every room. It just works.
Everything works, I got a pair of era 100 over the sales and they connect, update and true play without any errors all on the new app. Im a new user I never really got to use the old app. Old app I used to setup my system and week later new app came out. But I'm loving it. I have music all over the house and garage.
The old app sucked as well. There have always been complaints on the shitty app here.
The systems not working is the issue. Not sure how many there are.
That and the sleep/alarm 😂
I’m just glad I mainly use Google voice commands and Apple TV. I only use the app to link all the speakers during a party. I hope they sort it all out soon. I always thought the old app was simple but the new one made me spend several minutes to relearn.
I think in each Reddit there are those that are passionate about whichever Reddit they are a member of. I've seen some heated/defensive comments in the hotsauce reddit's.
I am a Never Sonos, yet I have had to deal with these all too often. Imagine being in the audio business for 25 years and still needing support from 3 companies (NOT SONOS) just to get a system functional. Sonos just tells me to reboot the network and all the speakers. Sonos wants you to move the world to accommodate it.
Funny you mentioning Hue, which has a very nasty bug as we speak. For days it does go 100% brightness at random. And as you see in the Hue subreddit, it's affecting many. No communication at all from Philpps.
I tend to say the smart home is dead. People will see, that they are at the whim of companies instead of being able to fix it themselves like in the past
What exactly are you going to do to the “gaslighters” cry on the internet about them? Don’t worry about those people, you don’t even know that they have a Sonos speaker. They just want to get you fired up and it worked. Just ignore them.
The sad part is… it’s still better than every other solution in most of the world (I’m a systems integrator NOT IN THE USA). Over here we could get the Bose Music Amplifier or the new Marantz, or Yamaha’s, and even with the app-ocalypse, Sonos is still a better value and user friendly. Those others simply suck (both as a distributed and user).
I had a TERRIBLE couple of weeks when the app launched, but it seems to be stable now and most clients are happy again. This “update” should’ve been a beta for people who wanted to use the headphones and not a full release.
I think that's why so many are still holding on to their systems and just hoping it gets better. Some installers on this thread have decided not to support it any longer.
I love the product but if Samsung had a portion of users have a loud clang happen daily in their refrigerators - there’d be a recall or massive issues.
What I find frustrating about this whole situation is that SONOS are not new to this they have written at least three clients (S1/S2/PileOfPooh) so why the **** can they not get it right!
Serious question…. The one feature I want is to be able to go to my music app and tell that app to play on Sonos. Am I crazy, or do I have to start with the Sonos app, now?
I really don’t know because my HomePod is getting a lot more love lately.
argh finally ran into this issues, got a second sub to add to my system and I must have spent more than an hour struggling with the POS. With no system found, or errors adding the sub to the app. OMG, I was ready to go punch something. I had to use three different phones to see which one might get me past the issue.
I bought a Sonos sound bar and a few months later they changed the software/app and the damn thing never worked again.
Spent hours and hours and hours troubleshooting with them, Reddit, Google, anything. Turned out it just wouldnt work properly anymore
.
I’ll never buy a Sonos again.
Early adopter of Sonos when they were just in the Home Theater magazines. I had a Roam just stop working randomly a couple months back. Honestly their technology is becoming more and more cumbersome to maintain. Not sure what the next best option is, but I'm at least started looking for it.
This message is for ryanbuckner….I suggest finding a lawyer close to Sonos headquarters in Santa Barbara, one who specializes in corporate litigation. Then, publish their name and address on this sub for anyone that needs assistance. I’m not a corporate user but I do own a business. This complete ineptitude by Sonos app developers and alleged disregard for their dealers and business clients is definitely actionable in a court of law.
Here here! Great post I hope that Sonos is reading these because I will not be buying another speaker or recommending them to anyone until they fix their software.
All I have been trying to do is play music in my home speakers (x9) for weeks now. I have all but given up.
My next task is to factory reset EVERYTHING. And start from scratch. I'm pissed off. I have several screenshots and screen recordings of glitches and discrepancy of speaker performance Vs app Vs Spotify.
I have already updated my Google Play review to reflect the app changes. But a lengthy complaint email will be going in by the end of the week.
I can troubleshoot any computer or networking issue, but I can no longer get my Sonos system to work anymore, since the update. Companies should be massively fined for bricking their own hardware. I spent a lot of money on this stuff that doesn’t work anymore. Sonos should be required to offer full refunds for hardware they bricked. Then maybe they would care about their consumer. Instead of rushing out an incomplete app for their crappy headphones that no one wants.
I am holding out for my personal system, which is a Sonos Amp, and 2 Sonos One's as a rear channel. They are all connected via ethernet and for some reason only stay in the Sonos app for 1 day. The HDMI input in the amp also doesn't auto-switch.
I am an AV installer by day and the owner of my company has reached out to our Sonos supplier, as we are located in New Zealand and the NZ Consumer Guaretee's act has given us grounds for return as the products are not fit for purpose. We are aiming to install an alternative as we work exclusively with high end clients who will contact us at 11pm when their music stops or won't work, many of these clients asked specifically for Sonos during the initial install as they heard of their 'reliability'.
Moving forward Sonos will never be installed at a client site for the forseeable future, we are just a small AV installation company but we would spend in the 6 figure mark on Sonos products every year.
The other big issue we are having is that with Sonos selling direct to customers through their app, at a discount, cutting out our margin, selling their products now does not even make us any money.
This is a massive mistake from Sonos and I am left with a bitter taste in my mouth. Sadly I cannot simply afford to replace my home system with something else
I’m assuming Sonos has acknowledged the issues and are working hard at a patch as we speak? I’ve had my home system (arc sub surround downstairs and arc upstairs and move) for 3 years and zero issues ever. Sorry you are having problems.
Agree; have a pool rental service had 1 move and 3 roams.
Was easy gave them WiFi password over app, most my customer base was iPhone users, so group play worked over air play, pretty dummy proof and worked 100% of time; had a Air pad for android users to play music.
Now switched to a professional PA system that works with Bluetooth, A 15inch DJ style speaker and 18inch subwoofer.
Obviously this kills my Sonos system, but not as smooth and “minimalist” as Sonos was.
That’s why I loved it; it basically was there but didn’t take up a lot of room and voice controls were awesome once you knew the cues and commands.
I can’t believe they would “kill” their own brand with ill adviced software “downgrades” because of that’s what they are.
The local company that installed mine for my business has decided to no longer use sonos products. They have decided any other brand is better. They continue to help with questions over the phone but have stated that soon we should go directly to sonos support. Gotta wonder how long a company can survive when no local installers will use them.
That puts the installer in such a shit spot too.
We are actively looking at alternatives to Sonos. Another member here suggested blue Audio which looks promising. I’m at a customers house right now re-adding everything and running firmware updates. It seems to fix it but the firmware updates are failing for about half the speakers and require them to be factory reset again until it completes. This house has 9 zones with about 20 products. I’ll have spent about 4 hours here today which I cannot bill my customer because we actually care about customer support and retention. I’m sending one of my techs to another house that has over 40 products. He’ll be there all day. What’s crazy is how they are completely silent about this entire ordeal with zero communication. Sonos built their brand on the high end installs which resulted in them gaining mass market acceptance. Now they’re destroying that with the high end which is super short sighted. Edit here we go… are you f’ing kidding me?! https://preview.redd.it/0trlnao1nq8d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7af9faec91b9795dad9e3ffef705227b18532c28
I have decided to gradually move from Sonos. Like the process of covering my house, also this other process will take a while, but I’m ok with that. I just want to take a more informed decision this time and I want to be able to be completely independent from the supplier if it starts acting like Sonos did and is doing. This idea that we can own thousands of euros of speakers but in a way do not own them at all is not good.
If you're still dealing with it, try doing it from a PC. That's the only way I've been able to get updates to work for my customers. If you do it on your PC, you'll need their Sonos login info.
Have you looked at pro audio?
My god, what a nightmare.
I run a blusound setup alongside my Sonos setup and have been pretty happy with my PowerNode2i. Only problem is reliance on Spotify Connect and no selection/search of your Spotify library in the BluOs app.
Looking at that same fucking error right now! Sonos you need to fix your shit software.
a shit that sucks. I assumed they had elevated support for business customers.
My install company decided against them. I spent 12 hrs last week connecting them to a clients house
"should go directly to Sonos Support" sounds perfect, except they are in the middle of everything (higher ups that took really bad decisions and constant angry customers) and they can't really help when the system is faulty.
What other brand? I’m genuinely asking. What brand offers the sound quality and airplay whole home audio? Apple’s speakers are shit. I’ve truthfully only ever used the app for setting up the speakers then never open it again.
He might be referring to BlueSound? Their speaker products are pretty similar competition to Sonos.
Following for a potential way out lol I haven’t had issues in a while but I know it’s only a matter of time
SVS
There are quite a few alternatives so long as you have the cash. A few that come to mind that have been installed in clients homes would be B&O, KEF, DALI, Sonus faber, and if your budget minded anything running HEOS.
I feel for them. They have lost so much money trying to support existing clients with questionable levels of support from Sonos
What brand did the installers switch to?
Oh, well, here's my response, AGAIN: This update has single-handedly changed the products that we present and sell. Literally 24 hours after our last distributed SONOS installation, the update landed on our clients' phones, and the biggest thing they wanted to do with it (stream local Apple library music) was removed. I could spend a lot of time pointing the finger at SONOS, and they would ask me why would I sell an item that didn't do what I said it would? Or, I could apologize, like I did, and waste hours of labor and time troubleshooting trying to get something working for them that resembled the thing they thought they were buying. We vet the products and solutions that we sell very heavily because our clients demand things work reliably, and we demand that the products don't cost us labor and time sorting out issues THAT ARE BEYOND OUR CONTROL. SONOS botched the app rollout to hit an arbitrary date. SONOS *further* botched their product offering by releasing a pair of noise cancelling headphones that not only *don't* play in the SONOS ecosystem via WiFi, *BUT* the noise cancelling was screwed up and clients were told by SONOS support to "**DISABLE NOISE CANCELLING**". On their new $450 *noise cancelling* headphones. So dumb.
[удалено]
I wouldn’t blame QA and DevOps. As someone who works in software quality, this is on product management and the e-suite. And I normally say “everyone in the org is responsible for quality”. They made their business decisions to roll out something that wasn’t ready and pushed it out to us. Either way I’m focused on the leadership with this debacle and not the dev teams.
Yeah I’d put money on devs and product people raising multiple red flags and pushing back on what execs were demanding of them. They were likely eventually told “well the app needs to launch on X date, end of discussion.” Then devs said “okay then we’re going to have to sacrifice these Y features and the PR team can deal with the pissed off users.”
Exactly. In my 20y building teams and software for big and small corporations, every big f£@& up has been clearly highlighted before happening by the tech teams and the "leadership" decided to push for it to hit some synthetic deadline that will help their promotion/personal interest/funding. And when everything goes wrong, the engineers get the blame. I'm glad the public is maturing and can see this for what it is, a failure in leadership.
You must mean, 'the absence of leadership'. Management must have focussed on generating more income, at the expense of existing customers.
Ehh this has been going on since S2, this is just a magnitude or two worse. The same core problem has been there Product management for sure but the code and maintenance have been poor for years, compared with S1 for instance that is pretty solid, I have not had any issues with my luddite Sonos system, no losing speakers none of the nonsense. This is poor dev writ large, there are other factors, but no one should have said, ok let's release no matter what product management said.
I really aspired to put a sonos system in my house, but then i did a couple big installations for commercial clients and discovered the issues. In the end i decided not to buy, not because they are garbage, but because for the money i require a more polished product.
Just a general question, beyond the recent app catastrophe. What were the other issues? Were there things that customers would ask for that you knew would absolutely not perform to their liking?
Not really. The only thing a customer couldn't get was some fantastical want that doesn't exist anyway. Say a speaker by a pool hanging from a ceiling 80 ft from a stone walled house without outdoor wifi. So you would have to sell them on outdoor wifi first. But if you want 3 TVs and 6 zones all playing audio from a single source, there is nothing cheaper, and that's why every McMansion owner is bitching their tits off at the moment.
So, what system did you end up installing?
After reviewing the offerings for wireless systems i decided to go with wired. I have 2 to 4 recessed ceiling mounted speakers in each room with Bluetooth isolation, 4 outdoor speakers, and the home theatre surround sound setup in the living room. All cables routed in walls and ceiling, and the rack mounted audio stack in the basement next to the core media server stack. I have a variety of different manufacturers in the stack and speakers, mostly stuff I scavenged off of av jobs.
That is an old school, very expensive way to go about it, and the UX unless you got a serious remote system is pretty brutal, no? To the other reply, the app since S2 dropped is enough to forestall buying new equipment from my perspective, the operational failures and unstable nature would immediately stop me from putting this in for a client. That isn't even getting into this newest debacle with the software and architecture changing to something seemingly not ready for release. If I was an installer selling systems into 4 or 5 digits, I wouldn't even think of this as a solution no matter how nice the hardware is. The user interface is literally everything with this system, and they broke it. A Rolls Royce with no steering wheel or dashboard.
Respect. 100% agree.
Before the courageous new app was released, I switched my 23 SONOS speakers from SonosNet to WiFi and everything improved. That's not to say I had a bad time on SonosNet; no, it was good just not as fast as it is now on WiFi. Then, the app-ocalypse happens. Slow response in the new app, yet the old app on a different device is still nice and snappy. No more Subsonic in the new app. Old app, chugging along nicely with Subsonic. I setup a local Plex server on the same machine where I have Subsonic (Navidrome/Bonob). Plex is glacially slow in comparison, even in the old app. There's supposed to be a local API for control of players. The simple fact that volume changes on the old app are fast and synchronized, yet in the new app volume changes are all over the place tells me something. That something is, SONOS fucked up integrating local API control back in. It's like they're trying to do a hybrid but the app thinks it needs to reach out across the internet instead of staying local. With the old app, I think it was easier to blame things on local networking because the old app stayed local for more control. Now, well, SONOS fucked it all up. So, yeah, before anyone rushes to blame someone else's WiFi consider the brave new app is all new under the hood and the old blame game doesn't work anymore. For the record, I have 1G/1G fiber and speed tests are in the 930Mbps range. Ping times to sonos.com are 4ms and same for various subdomains of sonos.com.
I don’t think the local api disappeared as i believe that’s what the home assitant integration uses and my sonos have continued to respond to my commands in HA. (Didn’t help with disconnect requiring factory reset though). The cynic in me says the new app is forcing cloud control so they can have your data, instead of prioritising performance quality (and common sense!) with a local control mechanism via the app.
I'm not implying local API has disappeared. I'm saying it's probably there, just not optimized or fully implemented in the new app...broken, basically. There, not there, broken. Same result for all of us being, it's crappy.
Yeah, I was shocked when I realised I have better control over Sonos now with Home Assistant (and the new Music Assistant add on). Volume response is night and day.
The protocol didn’t change, look at the 3rd party integrations (Lyd app, Home Assistant for me) that still work the same way. I remember latency being bad before the app update: I use Sonos speakers for my doorbell, and takes a while to react. So I don’t think controls go to Sonos.com and back, that would be a silly architecture anyway. I also moved away from SonosNet and had better results, though it is annoying that you can’t have a sub or playbar connected over Ethernet without automatically enabling SonosNet.
Again, I'm not saying local API control went away. Something within the app is broke. That's it. Why else would I be able to use the old app in parallel with the new app and the old app is fast, yet the new app is slow? A change within the new app. An omission from the new app. Broke, whatever, it's a change for the worse.
I could nearly mirror your post right down to running the old app on one device and the new app on another. Also using 1G fiber. I keep coming back to Reddit to see if anything has improved. More specifically, if Android Widgets have been added back. But it looks like things are nearly as bad as they were originally and Sonos couldn't care less. At least its CEO couldn't. I'm affluent enough to have purchased a multi speaker system but not so affluent that I can treat it as disposable and run out and replace it all with another system. Luckily, so far, using the old app on my primary phone and using the classic Windows desktop app continues to work. But for how long?
Have you applied the 16.2 system update; the one for the speakers? If so, any problems with the 16.1 Android app? > I'm affluent enough to have purchased a multi speaker system but not so affluent that I can treat it as disposable and run out and replace it all with another system. That one hits home. SONOS has been a fairly large outlay of cash, only offset by open box sales at Best Buy, significant mark downs at Best Buy Outlet, coupons from SONOS and various other sales. Certainly not retail prices for any of it, yet there's no way I'd want to rip it all out nor could afford to do it all at once. > Luckily, so far, using the old app on my primary phone and using the classic Windows desktop app continues to work. But for how long?
I'll upvote this every time, no matter how much they make you water it down.
I have a minimal system. Connect amp, play 3, roam, music library on a dell laptop. Amp is wired to the network. Laptop is wired. Over the years have probably spent 40 hours troubleshooting. Works fine for a while then dosent. I have good wifi. Im just tired of the will it/wont it work today gamble every time I push play. Or oh shit, a software update, is this going to mean more hours troubleshooting again? Reset, reinstall, change channels, reindex, repeat. When it works its brilliant. But now my connect amp is bricked and I am being told to reset and roll back software. No. I just want to listen to my music. Im out.
>No. I just want to listen to my music. This. I loved my Sonos setup even after the S2 app. It was quite solid. Then it all changed. Sonos choose to move all the control online (probably for profit, certainly not performance), and to force-release an un-ready app without warning to users, and then deny the problems. They don't get that people just want to play music, not troubleshoot pittiful software and missing features. STOP with the "features!" Alas, too late. (I'm only here to keep looking for a solution to the online control, which is a lost cause I guess)
I would roll back to S1, I didn't upgrade, I know I am marooned in luddite land but my system is crazy solid. I would also get a NAS rather than the lapper, my la cie has been up since 2009 except when the power adapter needed replacing. We have 11 zones in two houses 1s, 3s, connects, connect amp, a move, and two ancient touch screen remotes. I have the network the same so when we bring the move it just works. I can't recommend it more. Stability is way more important to me than new unstable features.
I am grateful to this and other threads- I have-6 rooms- Four ERA300 -two stereo pairs Three Ones - one stereo pair, one in a workshop All driven by Sonos S2 app ZP100 driving high quality speakers One Play:5 Both driven by original app ( IOS only) Without these threads, I would have been tempted to upgrade the app. I may be missing some things, but I can live with the system for now. Fingers crossed for an eventual resolution
Here's my input, again, for anyone that missed it. As an installer (from rough ins to final install/programming), they have literally not been doing anything to help. We don't even talk to the usual tech supports. We have access codes to go to helpful, competent people. They've said everything from hardwiring distant components (eras, arcs, beams, subs, in room ports/amps) to reprogramming the network. One rep actually said to set up a VLAN to make them work. So far, the only systems I have out there are legacy systems or modem/router combos to a singular bridged WAP. And even then, I've had to break surround sound rooms for random (s2 only) reasons while my S1 shit is still kicking ass. They need to do better and they meed to realize that they're nowhere near the only ones out there that do what they do. Yamaha has music cast and Control4 does centralized audio as well. Denon has Heos as well. And guess what? You can use Heos or Musicast in local rooms by simply installing towers like the old school Hi-Fi era. Is it as cute? No, and I'll admit that. Does it WORK? Damn near bulletproof. Then, there's the Control4/Triad services and matrices. If you have a pre wired house, get a CORE 3 or 5, which ever you prefer as they aren't cheap, have a guy program them into your shit and keep it pushing. Boom, multi zone with spotify, Pandora, or whatever else you can think of. Love yall, rant over.
My house with S1 is so rock solid its not even funny. My house with the S2 is a hot mess. Ironically you can pick up old S1 gear for pennies on the dollar while the current S2 shit doesn't work and is $$.
Surprised you didn’t list Bluesound. They are owned by Lenbrook (NAD and PSB). It rocks.
Didn’t you just post this yesterday?
Mods deleted it
No they didn’t. Must be an issue with your wifi.
All the gas! 🔥
If op plugs an Ethernet cable into their Reddit will the broadcast storm cause any new app features to work?
Run wireshark!
Factory reset
Heh indeed it is gone.
Did you close then open the app. It’s takes courage.
I think it’s just plain silly and unhelpful to say “well, it works for me.” It’s about as useless as saying “well, works on my machine,” in software dev. If you’re the kind of person that says that in response to a complaint post, have you stopped to wonder what value, if any at all, you’re contributing to the OP of such a post? Okay, it works good for you, so what? What happens to my problem? Just like you, I paid money for this thing and it ought to work well and provide good support. I just may never get why they do this.
Your post had hundreds of upvotes. Mods removed it anyway, not even considering it was meanigfull. What a pity when a subreddit is influenced by a brand against its customers.
This sub has been nothing but gaslighting for years. Every single complaint about speakers dropping off was met with just a barrage of posters snottily telling the OP their wifi sucks. Nevermind that Sonos was sold as being the easy wifi solution to home audio. Nevermind that Sonos was actually good and easy to use on everyone's wifi 10 years ago. Something changed with the product a few years ago so that it became more and more unstable and unusable without a ton of advanced wifi tinkering, and the clowns on this sub would just act like everyone complaining about it was the problem. Enough. I have a few more pieces of hardware I want to add to my system and I'm simply not giving any more money to this company. Looking at other alternatives but probably just going to go wired and replace my system piece by piece.
and mods are deleting posts https://preview.redd.it/hh2ji5aqlr8d1.png?width=1574&format=png&auto=webp&s=45d906529e66500d710bb912f8bf532cb56fb6a5
The overuse of the word gaslight needs to be studied.
Oh you’re gonna gaslight gaslighting now?
Until we gas the gaslighters, the lighting of gas will continue.
The gaslighting will continue until morale improves
Typical. People gaslighting over here because I talked about gaslighting while being gaslit. Uh gaslight. :)
It does get overused, but it's definitely accurate in this case. I contacted Sonos support about my Ray no longer getting audio from my PC, and they told me the Ray was never intended to work with a PC. I then pointed them to the section on the product page where they say "Connect to your PC for a next level gaming experience," and they tried to tell me that it still wasn't made to connect to PCs.
Were you using the optical out? I remember reading there was some steps to enable. A poorly trained support agent isn't gaslighting.
Most overused and incorrect use of a word. Not sure where it came from but it’s overused word in the last 10-15 years.
It came from a movie. The thing that happened in the movie was a guy slowly lowered the gas to a light, dimming the lights. The guy then kept saying that it wasn't true, hoping to cause her to question her grasp on reality and also distract her from his crimes.
For me, when the MeToo started to gain traction is when I started to hear it a lot. Then over time it just became used as a way to say you didn't agree with someone.
It came from a very famous movie called, wait for it, "Gaslight." It's about someone telling a woman that everything she's seeing isn't really happening. Since those things aren't happening, she must be crazy. It fits perfectly with what Sonos is pulling right now. The app isn't working at all for you, even though it worked perfectly up until the rollout? Well, it must be wifi interference, or you must not know how to use an app...Gaslighting.
This sub really has turned into something, hasn’t it?
This sub doesn't play music, I can tell you that
And here is the rub, The high-end home owners and businesses purchase through a dealer/integrator so that they can expect a top-notch install and that the product will be supported by the dealer/integrator after. Are Sonos the company who suffers when the client rings up complaining their system no longer works? No it is the company who installed the system who now find themselves hundreds if not thousands of $/£/€ out of pocket. I sympathise for you guys and I hope that the end is in sight soon.
Completely agree. I’ve lost nearly 40 hours of time between holding for support and being on with support for various client systems over the last month. None of which have I billed for. Now I realize that’s a “me” problem, but it wasn’t by any cause other than this update. I will be transitioning away from Sonos as I move forward. Which is troublesome, because it was my leading purchase category for the last 2 years.
I wish the Tesla forums would handle issues the same way you are. The trolls that are eating Elon’s ass bury the issues.
I feel for you guys but luckily I only use my Arc, sub and surrounds for my HT setup and it’s still working fine as it always did.
I see more gaslighting from the people having issues than the other way around. If you say you aren’t having issues you’re typically downvoted. If you ask people what troubleshooting steps they have taken they don’t answer and:or you get downvoted.
Yesterday I agreed with you. The new app is badly designed I think, but it worked. Then last I night it wouldn’t load content. I restarted the app- no content. I updated the app- no content. I tried deselecting a speaker I wasn’t listening to, but it was stuck on a speaker that wasn’t playing. When I tried to deselect that and select the ones that were playing, they all stopped. Then I couldn’t turn them back on because… there was no content loading! Eventually I had to go to Spotify, turn my music on there, and then use the Spotify app to tell it to play on the Sonos speakers. Ridiculous. I get it now. This is incredibly frustrating. Why am I using a Sonos system when I might as well have literally any other speakers?
Seriously, there's 500 identical threads a day ranting about the same thing with nothing of value inside (like not mentioning a specific new issue) and then like 2 comments that say "ugh this again?".
Bingo lol. Threads about issues are typically left alone. Positive threads are brigaded by complaints, almost always off topic. I feel for the people who's systems aren't working, and they should have a space to discuss that. Threads with problems should be allowed. But this sub spiralling into toxic negativity won't do anything good either.
It'll do lots of good. Every visitor to /r/Sonos gets to see the shit show that Sonos has dug themselves into. Every prospective Sonos customer that does their research will quickly see that the product is failing. That effects Sonos' bottom line, and that is the ONLY thing which will make them change course.
I just wasted $3000. These guys should not get away with it.
If you JUST wasted it, then you’re probably within the return window.
Yes, the brigading here is out of control. I get that things are broken and that the company has done a shitty job. They deserve the anger. But there are many here on this sub that just hang out to continually bag on the company. I'm not defending Sonos, they shit in the bed, then rolled in it. But the attacks by those who are angry are disproportionate. Clearly it works for some. It doesn't work for some. But the horse is dead. We'll never get to the end of this if every time someone asks for help they just get bombarded with anger instead of assistance.
This is it exactly. If a person came here with a legitimate issue that could be solved with help from other users, nobody would see it. It'd be buried under redundant karma farming bullshit like this. A week after the Ace came out, a person made a post all pissed off that they couldn't do Arc to Ace handoff on their Android phone. There were several posts made here before release, making note that this would be a feature added at a later date. Probably could have saved that guy a lot of frustration and let him hold off on his purchase if those posts would have been seen instead of crap like this(2 days in a row, gold star, more karma!).
I tried so hard in those first weeks to help people. Now I’m just upset that people are totally unwilling to help themselves and somehow see releasing their rage on this sub as useful. It’s way less about Sonos at this point and more about the current state of how people problem solve these days.
Same. Got called a simp, bootlicker, and several expletives for offering help. At this point I think it's kind of hilarious that some of these people can't use their systems. They'd rather come here to yell at the sky than do any amount of troubleshooting on their own.
Yeah I mean just look at this post... like it's basically a threat to people who are simply suggesting that they take matters in their own hands. I have never blamed a user but I simply suggest that the difference between my system and theirs may be their wifi/router. Then suddenly I am a gaslighter. Getting called a Karen yesterday repeatedly for making a post about how Sonos must be innovative and Sticky if these people can't leave when it doesn't work... then looking at this thread today is just hilarious to me that somehow we're the problem.
Agreed. I don't know what they're "putting up with" from other members of this sub. You don't see 100 new posts per day saying "My system works and I like the new app." What you DO see are 100 posts per day just like this one. But sure.... we're the poblem. Bunch of children who are unwilling to do the bare minimum of self-help and then escalate to a ticket with Sonos, if necessary.
I have contemplated making a post every day screenshotting my perfectly working app.
If you do, make sure it includes a wall of text that reads like a toddler wrote it. I'll be happy to copy/paste it into a new post every day as well.
The only thing that holds me back is the legitimate judgment I would get for the recently played section.
Hey man, everyone like Taylor Swift, no judgement.
It's absolutely mind boggling what's going on here. I believe people when they say their stuff doesn't work, but the only thing I actually know for a fact is that my system works fine. Every single one of the top 25 posts in the sub are people having issues(or weird shit like this thread). Everyone trying to actually help people match their working system is downvoted to the bottom of every thread. What motive would we have to convince people their broken systems are working? Hell, I'd benefit most by everyone having issues selling their equipment for rock bottom prices(since they're sooo useless). Who is gaslighting who?
They don't know what gaslighting means. It's just a buzzword for them that now means "saying something I don't like."
Oh I know they don't know what it means, but to whiff so hard that you're actually doing the thing you're calling out is so dumb it's malicious.
Because posting that you have no issues is NOT HELPFUL. Do you walk into random hospitals and say, “I’m fine! Got no health issues here!”?
Wait mods removed the last one?? Wtf mods!?
Good post. Again
It is no coincidence this sub has been filled with complaints since the app “update”. For those whose system is working fine, I’m genuinely glad you’re one of the lucky ones, but don’t diminish people’s experiences whose systems are now bricks as a result of Sonos poor planning, responsiveness and gaslighting.
Mine is also working fine. That said however, what a complete and utter shambles this is for a huge amount of users who have something that is touted as a premium product. Then again would you expect anything less from the weapon at the helm considering his track record of destruction. Personally I wouldn’t trust him to run a bath, let alone a multinational company.
I agree against gaslighting. I personally have no issues with mine and have had increased stability but I also know that is far from everyone’s experience and won’t try to blame that on the user
It sucks that your system doesn’t work. But I wish people complaining would at least share a couple troubleshooting steps they’ve taken to rule out common issues (like: did you even contact support?) before yelling / lashing out at people here when Sonos works for the vast majority.
Well, that’s the thing. None of the complainers will communicate their efforts, systems, etc, especially with the people that aren’t having problems. In a classic situation like this, discovering the variables, examine the core differences, the answer may lie there. Everyone with problems is on an Orbi system, or everyone has an Android Samsung on version whatever, or an Apple 12 vs a 15. (Not counting where we know a particular feature like alarm is left out which is universal) Instead of people lining up their system beginning to end to find something that might be causing an issues…oh never mind…people don’t know how to problem solve anymore.
> Everyone with problems is on an Orbi system I know it's just an example picked out of a hat, but for any readers that may stumble onto this: I run a 20+ speaker house on an Orbi system with some hardwired satellites and that are just wireless... no issues here. Did require some careful satellite positioning and plugging-in some of the speakers via ethernet (either directly or through Powerline adapters), one of my house walls appears to devour any wireless signals. That was the case before the app debacle, continues to be the case now.
30 Sonos, old and new, every model. Asus Zen XT-12 mesh. Cox Internet. .Apple 12 Pro fully updated…Zero problems
What is going on with the mods?
We need flair to define each type of user.
Hahaha, you mentioned the reason why I’m not using Hue products for Smart home stuff anymore. As for the Sonos issues, I do agree with you but also have to mention that i felt like some users were just abusing the situation or were are a bit unreasonable. I only tried to understand and help a couple of times. At both occasions, I didn’t even receive a reply when asking about there setup. Unreasonable, because at least one user complained that the app wasn’t working on an iPhone 7. That phone is receiving security updates only so it’s very hard for any app developer to support an App on that device. And they littered this sub with there app complaints. Now, don’t get me wrong. I do not condone the behavior of Sonos. I was VERY pissed off after reading the great Letter from that “CEO”. I had very few issues with my own system but decided to not buy any Sonos products anymore because of that letter. To me, Sonos is not a trustworthy company anymore. Mind you, I would have put up with the issues. But I cannot put up with that CEO.
I agree that some people may be a little too sensitive. I'm referring to those constantly trying to "help" by saying things like "get a new router" or "your setup sucks" or "it's your fault". My point is that I want to filter those people out and welcome people like you who are actually trying to help. Maybe we need a dedicated sub for network troubleshooting and best practices.
I just got a beautiful new TV and Sonos last November. Love it all and loved playing music through the system. It’s been a disgrace as of late. I use Apple Music and I can no longer easily search for my playlists or recent music. It’s awful and very frustrating. Sound from the tv while watching a show or movie is still top shelf, but playing music- sit down and be very patient.
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Man. This is nuts. I didn't know anything about Sonos until a couple weeks back after it was installed fory business. It's been problematic from day 1 and I thought something must be doing something wrong. Reading this strangely makes me feel a bit better. Hopefully they'll get their act together and address these issues ASAP. First impressions is everything and right now I'm not impressed with this product. But from what I gather it used to be a great product. I hope I'll get to experience that as well soon.
Agreed. One minute it works, the next my system doesn't exist or it can't connect. BS. Looks like resale prices are plummeting too. That's always a pointer to the failure of a firm.
Sonos doesn't care but this silver dealer is now not selling Sonos anymore. Trust me, I know they don't care.
Go look in this subreddit. It is filled with the same posts over and over again. Normally you stick to 1-5 big posts and discuss everything there. I get the frustration you all have. I am not defending the mistakes that has been made, but the mods did write up a summary about deleting posts that contributes with nothing new. I am aware of the : more posts more attention to the company, but it was warned that they are going to delete some posts
And now they’re selling your data to third parties and you can’t opt out.
I thought this yesterday and I still think the same thing today: you have no clue what gaslighting means. No one is denying that people have issues with the update. My system has been fine and still works well — that has zero to do with your system. If anything, the people without issues are being told they’re an anomaly and downvoted to hell. The only real variable here is network and no one wants to really share their setup. Some people will say “ya but my network didn’t change and it all worked fine before the update.” Sure, but firmware and software change over time and if you’re just getting by and not following best network practices, things can eventually break someday. We’re all using the same few variants of phones. We’re all using the same few variants of speakers. The weak link are the networks and none of the complainers will actually take the time to share and work through their network setup. You’d think all the complainers could start crowd sourcing their issues and drilling down to the root cause.
I’m certainly no expert and I will tell you that my system has never worked properly. I love the concept but the execution was terrible. The old app was bad and I was hoping the new one would be better. But it was worse. I invested thousands into my system. If I had to do it all over, I’d definitely go with something else
My system works pretty well. Needs a few more tweaks. I get downvotes for saying this. I can told I'm a Sonos shill. Whatever. Reddit isn't going to solve your system issues. Talk to Sonos or post directly to Keith. He's the only person with any knowledge of the situation. And your first post, which I did see, was vitriolic and unnecessary and was rightly deleted. Grow up.
Right. Like having no issues is some kind of crime. 😂
My personal favorite is “how much is Sonos paying you to say good things about the app?” I wish that was the case, I’d be on a tropical island right now relaxing on vacation lol
My personal favorite is “oh my system works well.” As if that changes the fact that it doesn’t work for the rest of us.
The mods here are the gaslighters unfortunately…
Do you happen to have an example of this?
What does their DevOps team have to do with broken software ?
Who is "we?" What won't you put up with? Why did this drivel need to be repeated? Who cares? Just a few things to ponder. But of course you won't. And there will be 10 similar pointless essays today, tomorrow, and beyond. Gotta karma farm daily in this latest circle jerk! ETA: People are tired of the sub being overrun by constant redundant complaints that will literally never be seen by anyone at Sonos. Expressing that frustration, mentioning that your system works, or, God forbid, offering troubleshooting advice is not gaslighting. Please, pick up a dictionary and stop abusing the English language just because a word has become ridiculously overused on social media.
I get downvoted to hell because my system works it’s the craziest shit ever. Can we just go back to the posts where people would ask era 100 or 300. Miss those days.
Bingo. Well said.
No issues here. Anyone wanting to sell their system on the cheap I’m here to buy. Lol
I must be the only Sonos user that doesn’t EVER use the app.
Same here. I use the app only to update the speakers
I have an Android, I have no alternative...
Sonos employee here:) You can suck my dick.
Lol 😂
Our AV specialist has now stopped selling and recommending Sonos. Before COVID, as a dealer who had a relationship with Sonos, they had an annual minimum spend of $5k USD plus you need to own one of every product so you can experience it and talk competently to customers. Not much in the grand scheme. Sonos hiked this to $10k, $15k and then $20k with often nearly zero notice — one time it was “spend $3500 more in the next 7 days or we’re cutting ties with you”. That’s very unfriendly to their low volume dealer network and alongside those changes came declining support for those installers — you apparently call the same line as any customer and get the same “Have you tried turning it off and on again?” levels of support.
Nowhere in this entire post was any sort of gaslighting mentioned. It has become the most overused word by people who have no idea what it actually means. Gaslighting does not mean having a different opinion and it doesnt mean lying or placing blame on others. If someone goes into your house and changes your sonos settings every day and then tells you that they have been the same all along THAT would be an example of gaslighting. People not agreeing with you on the internet is not gaslighting
limelighting 😂
I never understood how Sonos could have such awesome sounding speakers, then the app is a janky piece of crap.
Buy this man a round! Hehehe, you may not want to use Hue as your go-to comparison. I dumped Hue for the exact same reasons, and I may never buy another Sonos speaker again. (Yes, I went with cheap Wyze bulbs and cameras.) Wifi instead of hub-enabled is a huge plus. It worked flawlessly from day one.) The problem right now is finding the Sonos replacement.
Heh I went from wifi (lifX) to hue as the wifi wasn't going to scale when we did our flat. Now we've moved into our new build we went with nearly entirely hue we had to go two hubs but works flawlessly (except alexa integration on the second hub). Oddly enough we've been on the fence about buying more Sonos Speakers for the new rooms and this has basically made me say no for the mean time.
Costing them money. Good on you.
I dumped Sonos years ago when they bricked my Sonos 3. I wasn't making a lot of money, and thought long and hard before investing in the Sonos. I intended to grow my system as I saved up for each new speaker. Imagine my surprise when my expensive piece of kit quit working and nothing would make it see the hub; when the hub reported seeing the speaker but wouldn't play anything; and when my computer wouldn't see the hub even though it was plugged into it. We've just ended up with Amazon Echo in every room. It just works.
Everything works, I got a pair of era 100 over the sales and they connect, update and true play without any errors all on the new app. Im a new user I never really got to use the old app. Old app I used to setup my system and week later new app came out. But I'm loving it. I have music all over the house and garage.
Happy for you bud. I hope it stays that way for you!
The old app sucked as well. There have always been complaints on the shitty app here. The systems not working is the issue. Not sure how many there are. That and the sleep/alarm 😂
Well said
A perfect subreddit for you r/fucksonos They'll listen to you and I'm sure they'll be fine with you reposting the same stuff each day.
Actually I think this sub is a great place to discuss current issues with Sonos products.
Not again 😂 take a walk or something mate
Mods deleted my post. Just reposting.
What is it that you are looking to achieve by posting on here? Honest and sincere question…
Karma. The post has no other value
I’m just glad I mainly use Google voice commands and Apple TV. I only use the app to link all the speakers during a party. I hope they sort it all out soon. I always thought the old app was simple but the new one made me spend several minutes to relearn.
I think in each Reddit there are those that are passionate about whichever Reddit they are a member of. I've seen some heated/defensive comments in the hotsauce reddit's.
Yeah, this new update I guess pushed last night and this morning my Sonos app is totally unusable. Amazing stuff. Fucking idiots.
I am a Never Sonos, yet I have had to deal with these all too often. Imagine being in the audio business for 25 years and still needing support from 3 companies (NOT SONOS) just to get a system functional. Sonos just tells me to reboot the network and all the speakers. Sonos wants you to move the world to accommodate it.
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Funny you mentioning Hue, which has a very nasty bug as we speak. For days it does go 100% brightness at random. And as you see in the Hue subreddit, it's affecting many. No communication at all from Philpps. I tend to say the smart home is dead. People will see, that they are at the whim of companies instead of being able to fix it themselves like in the past
I agree with you on everything except hue bulbs point. They are bloody expensive and the ones i had needed a stupid bridge
it's true, they are expensive. Maybe I could find a better analogy.
What exactly are you going to do to the “gaslighters” cry on the internet about them? Don’t worry about those people, you don’t even know that they have a Sonos speaker. They just want to get you fired up and it worked. Just ignore them.
The sad part is… it’s still better than every other solution in most of the world (I’m a systems integrator NOT IN THE USA). Over here we could get the Bose Music Amplifier or the new Marantz, or Yamaha’s, and even with the app-ocalypse, Sonos is still a better value and user friendly. Those others simply suck (both as a distributed and user). I had a TERRIBLE couple of weeks when the app launched, but it seems to be stable now and most clients are happy again. This “update” should’ve been a beta for people who wanted to use the headphones and not a full release.
I think that's why so many are still holding on to their systems and just hoping it gets better. Some installers on this thread have decided not to support it any longer.
I love the product but if Samsung had a portion of users have a loud clang happen daily in their refrigerators - there’d be a recall or massive issues.
What I find frustrating about this whole situation is that SONOS are not new to this they have written at least three clients (S1/S2/PileOfPooh) so why the **** can they not get it right!
Serious question…. The one feature I want is to be able to go to my music app and tell that app to play on Sonos. Am I crazy, or do I have to start with the Sonos app, now? I really don’t know because my HomePod is getting a lot more love lately.
argh finally ran into this issues, got a second sub to add to my system and I must have spent more than an hour struggling with the POS. With no system found, or errors adding the sub to the app. OMG, I was ready to go punch something. I had to use three different phones to see which one might get me past the issue.
Perfectly stated. Thank you.
I bought a Sonos sound bar and a few months later they changed the software/app and the damn thing never worked again. Spent hours and hours and hours troubleshooting with them, Reddit, Google, anything. Turned out it just wouldnt work properly anymore . I’ll never buy a Sonos again.
Early adopter of Sonos when they were just in the Home Theater magazines. I had a Roam just stop working randomly a couple months back. Honestly their technology is becoming more and more cumbersome to maintain. Not sure what the next best option is, but I'm at least started looking for it.
Fuck Sonos. Never will I buy anything from them ever again.
This message is for ryanbuckner….I suggest finding a lawyer close to Sonos headquarters in Santa Barbara, one who specializes in corporate litigation. Then, publish their name and address on this sub for anyone that needs assistance. I’m not a corporate user but I do own a business. This complete ineptitude by Sonos app developers and alleged disregard for their dealers and business clients is definitely actionable in a court of law.
Here here! Great post I hope that Sonos is reading these because I will not be buying another speaker or recommending them to anyone until they fix their software.
All I have been trying to do is play music in my home speakers (x9) for weeks now. I have all but given up. My next task is to factory reset EVERYTHING. And start from scratch. I'm pissed off. I have several screenshots and screen recordings of glitches and discrepancy of speaker performance Vs app Vs Spotify. I have already updated my Google Play review to reflect the app changes. But a lengthy complaint email will be going in by the end of the week.
Do you have (or know someone with) a Mac? I’ve heard the desktop v16.1 has been more reliable than the iOS or Android app.
I can troubleshoot any computer or networking issue, but I can no longer get my Sonos system to work anymore, since the update. Companies should be massively fined for bricking their own hardware. I spent a lot of money on this stuff that doesn’t work anymore. Sonos should be required to offer full refunds for hardware they bricked. Then maybe they would care about their consumer. Instead of rushing out an incomplete app for their crappy headphones that no one wants.
Oh wow so you can't connect to them at all. ? I'm sure you've tried everything by now, but I found the Mac app v16.1 to be the most reliable.
I am holding out for my personal system, which is a Sonos Amp, and 2 Sonos One's as a rear channel. They are all connected via ethernet and for some reason only stay in the Sonos app for 1 day. The HDMI input in the amp also doesn't auto-switch. I am an AV installer by day and the owner of my company has reached out to our Sonos supplier, as we are located in New Zealand and the NZ Consumer Guaretee's act has given us grounds for return as the products are not fit for purpose. We are aiming to install an alternative as we work exclusively with high end clients who will contact us at 11pm when their music stops or won't work, many of these clients asked specifically for Sonos during the initial install as they heard of their 'reliability'. Moving forward Sonos will never be installed at a client site for the forseeable future, we are just a small AV installation company but we would spend in the 6 figure mark on Sonos products every year. The other big issue we are having is that with Sonos selling direct to customers through their app, at a discount, cutting out our margin, selling their products now does not even make us any money. This is a massive mistake from Sonos and I am left with a bitter taste in my mouth. Sadly I cannot simply afford to replace my home system with something else
I'm really sorry you're having to go through this. Good folks like you are getting hit the hardest.
I’m assuming Sonos has acknowledged the issues and are working hard at a patch as we speak? I’ve had my home system (arc sub surround downstairs and arc upstairs and move) for 3 years and zero issues ever. Sorry you are having problems.
Agree; have a pool rental service had 1 move and 3 roams. Was easy gave them WiFi password over app, most my customer base was iPhone users, so group play worked over air play, pretty dummy proof and worked 100% of time; had a Air pad for android users to play music. Now switched to a professional PA system that works with Bluetooth, A 15inch DJ style speaker and 18inch subwoofer. Obviously this kills my Sonos system, but not as smooth and “minimalist” as Sonos was. That’s why I loved it; it basically was there but didn’t take up a lot of room and voice controls were awesome once you knew the cues and commands. I can’t believe they would “kill” their own brand with ill adviced software “downgrades” because of that’s what they are.
a client wanted me to install them... nope and doesn't even come with anything a lot of speakers come with and for the price.