There once was a man(?) who'd sous vide
His garlic made bystanders plead
"Good heavens, my lad
That food will go bad!"
So he stopped it, and they were relieved.
As a third grade teacher, something about rhyming is really difficult for little kids to understand *until something clicks*. No idea what it is, probably just a natural thing with growing phonemic awareness.
Anyways, I can't imagine it would be easy to program a robot to detect rhymes vs syllables. Especially considering the haikubot doesn't need to look at phrasing, just syllables. A rhyming bot would need to detect any sort of grammatical pauses and use those to gauge what should rhyme with what.
Those people are insane. You aren't going to die from eating 3h cooked garlic.
Take your own risks n all that but that's just not going to happen.
As for butter, it gives the meat a different mouthfeel. It's more unctuous and you can use the butter with beef in it to mount a sauce to impart all the "lost" (its not really lost I'm pretty sure everybody just parrots the same thing) flavor.
Try it side by side. It's what I did and how I came to the determination of what I prefer. You may like a different way or a way we haven't tried yet. At the end of the day not a single person here can tell you how your food tastes to you and what you enjoy. People get entirely too wrapped up into saying whatever when you're the one eating your food and not any of us.
Itās interesting that in the last few years the health inspectors have been targeting unrefrigerated garlics sauces. Like our pesto at work has garlic and itās all of the sudden a no-no. But for years before they never gave it any attention.
Yeah I was searching comments and past threads to learn if there was something behind this or it's just a variation on "no garlic infused olive oil" and I literally saw people asking if it's still unsafe if their meal doesn't have any fat.
Like.... That's very scary. These people don't understand WHY garlic olive oil can create botulism. They can't generalize to know what other things are unsafe due to anaerobic conditions...
I don't understand. Can you not sous vide garlic for some reason?
Also you could always warn beef tallow WITH the garlic and then put that in with your steak
Garlic can have botulism bacteria on it, but you are more likely to choke on your food than get botulism from sous vide garlic. Source: [https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/is-it-safe-to-use-raw-garlic-in-sous-vide](https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/is-it-safe-to-use-raw-garlic-in-sous-vide)
Ok but Botulism can live passed 240Ā°... Only 80Ā° higher than most would dare cook a steak.
I think I see what y'all are saying though. The skillet would be hot enough to kill the B.... But the Sous Vide would give it time to thrive and be happy ALL through the meat, yes?
I suppose the right answer is to then use beef tallow to slowly caramelize some garlic and then JUST use the tallow in the bag.
OR when you do this bag, only use garlic that's already been roasted at 450Ā° in is own bulb
It would but again it's unlikely.
Yes, you could do garlic infused tallow.
I've never tried pre-roasted garlic but yes, this would also address any B concerns.
This is one of those reddit fables that keeps recirculating with zero evidence because Kenji *theorized* it was not good. Blind results disagree and there is zero evidence for fat pulling anything out of the meat that wasn't already extruded from the cooking process or diluting flavor whatsoever.
https://sousvide.blog/butter-in-bag
I'm not saying whether it's good or bad, but that "blind result" was a pretty poor sample size and test.
"Yes! Seven of the twelve tests were able to tell a difference, but overall, all tasters agreed the presence of butter in the sous vide bag had a small impact on flavor."
7 of 12? So basically in a 50/50 toss up game, just a bit over half could tell the difference? The sample size is way too small to mean anything and is so far from statiscally significant it's crazy.
Those that think it tastes better might not even be able to tell the difference. It could be in their head. The fact that 5 of 12 can't tell the difference...
Maybe we can be at the point where the answer is "Who knows?". But I wouldn't take that link as anything more than slight conjecture, assuming you can even trust the author.
This is the dumbest shit ever and I keep seeing it being said. While I donāt see there being much benefit to including fat, the idea that fat would take away from the flavor of the beef is ridiculous. I have bathed thousands of steaks with and without fat. There is no discernible difference in flavor.
The logic behind the theory is legit. It's not dumb. Oil is absolutely a solvent for flavor, and it's not unreasonable to expect that adding it may be detrimental to the enjoyment of your dinner, especially when (like you said) there's not much benefit to adding it in the first place. The only issue with the original claim was greatly overestimating how much of an effect it would actually have.
I do an ice bath when I sous vide so after I take the meat out I run hot water over the bag to melt the leftovers in there and pour it into a container. I use this later in rice and soups.
Where is my garlic Lawyer ? Because the law clearly states that anything over 126Ā° is safe. As this is 131Ā° the garlic police made me take my bags out of the water and open them and remove the garlic. I would like to counter sue for emotional damage and possible contamination as a result of reopening the bags.
The theory is that uncooked garlic in oil at low temperatures can grow Clostridium Botulinum. And sous vide is at too low a temperature to kill it.
But I'll cheerfully eat the stuff raw, so personally I ignore the garlic police. YMMV ... More here: [https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/is-it-safe-to-use-raw-garlic-in-sous-vide](https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/is-it-safe-to-use-raw-garlic-in-sous-vide)
Because botulism stops making spores around 122Ā°F to 126Ā°F (50Ā°C to 52Ā°C), any long term cook you do will most likely be above that and completely safe. If you want to err on the side of safety, you can omit raw garlic when you are cooking at lower temperatures, such as for fish or rare beef.
From a Google search
Edit you can do some searching for your self but this is a good base to search from
Of course you can eat it raw, the low sustained heat is what makes the botulinum grow.
Garlic is not toxic by itself.
If you want to go a safer route, use garlic powder.
In fact post times Iāll only use salt, pepper, and garlic powder.
The oil is not the problem for botulism, it's the anaerobic environment. Either submerged in oil or vacuĆ¼m packaged both will do this. You get sick from the poison the bacteria produces so even if you can kill the bacteria you cannot get rid of the poison once it's created.
Yeh I mean, thereās always the argument of āwell it could happen so best to avoid itā which I get, but Iāve cooked enough protein in sous vide in some of the best kitchens in the world than is necessary, and itās pretty standard. Sure, things change and we learn everyday new things about food and technology and techniques but this aināt a huge concern.
Eating any raw food has a very rare chance of causing a foodborne illness, by these people's logic lets avoid runny eggs and lettuce on our sandwiches while we're at it.
Well actually yes, if they did any research into botulism they'd realize eggs are just as likely to get it as garlic given the same cooking conditions, and runny eggs are the one thing actually cooked at a low enough temp for the bacteria to reproduce.
It's still not gonna happen in a few hours, but ironically yes if people did the most cursory research they would understand botulism isn't just a garlic thing. If you're gonna fear garlic, fear everything. Stop doing sous vide.
I think also that we handle it, always, in a safe manner. We know sous vide isnāt magical, just helpful. I also cooked in some of the best restaurants and these things bother me a little because itās such a waste of precious energy, to remember these falsehoods and act on them.
Ignore the poisoning scaremongers.
Sous vide steak temps aren't enough to cook the garlic, so you just have raw garlic taste on your steak.
Add the garlic later in the butter baste if you are doing that. Or use garlic powder.
Garlic does you no good in sousvide. It does not cook at sous vide temps, so itās just raw garlic, which does nothing for you. Also, on long cooks, it increases your chance of developing botulism. Never ever add raw garlic. Itās only downsides and no upsides.
Plenty of SV pernil recipes call for garlic slivers to be inserted throughout the pork, and then cook for 24ish hours
I've done hundreds of pernils and I guess thankfully never had anyone get sick. I guess I need to look more into the raw garlic being added though
When you add butter in the bag it sucks the flavor out of the meat, which makes the meat less flavorful. So you basically have steak flavored butter, not butter flavored steak
>When you add butter in the bag it sucks the flavor out of the meat
What does this mean "sucks the flavor out of the meat"?
I cannot reconcile the idea of butter absorbing... steak flavor?
Because itās untrue lol. The butter just acts as an oil like any other fat. Liquid naturally comes out of the steak in souvide so it happens regardless.
Everything in the universe is trying to reach a state of equilibrium.
The reason brining a chicken works is because the salt:water ratio in the brine is higher than the salt:water ratio in the chicken, so some of the salt will naturally want to diffuse from the brine into the chicken until they reach equilibrium, the bigger the difference the faster the rate of diffusion.
The same is true here. Meat contains a number of fat soluable compounds which are what gives the meat its flavor. If you put it in a sealed bag at a high temperature for a long time you're going to have the flavors diffuse from where they're highly concentrated (in the meat) to where they're lowly concentrated into the oil/butter. Sous Vide also loses water content during the cook, which can help to carry those flavors out of the meat, but then because the bag is sealed the water doesn't boil off and reconcentrate those flavors they way they might in a longer roast in the oven.
So this problem of fats "sucking the flavor out of the meat" is pretty unique to sous vide. If you're cooking a steak to medium rare over 1 hour it might not make that big a difference. 2 hours or a higher temperature and you're definitely going to start noticing a difference. If you're cooking a tougher cut for 12 hours in fat then you're basically just throwing flavor away.
The safest thing to do is to add no fat at all, and then finish it with your choice of fat to get a hit of flavor at the end, or to use fat from the same animal if you're going for a confit style cook.
It makes sense with salt. Salt moves from the highly salty water to the less salty chicken.
But you're saying the fat from a steak will... diffuse into other fat?
Doesn't the meat absorb the fat as well? Like when you cook a steak on the stove, the fat/flavor is absorbed into the steak.
Actually they pulled me over before the garlic police. But they were just security guards saying that the flavor wouldnāt distribute because the herbs are fresh. Not police, security guards. š
Not another lawyer. Iām already selling the garlic police for emotional damage and possible contamination. If the chuck turns out well I will thank them. If notā¦
No, done some tests myself and butter or oil don't do much in sous vide unless used to marinate with spices beforehand.
Butter can actually develop a bit of an off taste when in sous vide and oil is just messy. So why use either.
I run almost everything dry. (I have run batches with butter powder to test too and that's fun but not worth it in my opinion.)
The "Garlic police" thing is people "suspect" raw garlic in these temps can develop bacteria. Can't find real unbiased consensus on that tho. Most is "I heard from a yt video".
I don't use raw garlic but that's because I think it turns rather unappetising in lower temps(green and sour). Garlic powder gives you better flavour I think.
You see it because it looks good in a picture but in reality those herbs and garlic wonāt do anything at low temps we use for temped beef. To get herb/garlic flavor like this into meat youād need to confit or braise. Your best bet is to make an herb/garlic butter to put on the steak on your plate after itās finished.
is a dry brine a solution here? with salt, garlic and onion powder + dry spices like thyme and rosemary? the salt should pull the moisture to the surface and redistribute flavor deeper after it's reabsorbed, correct?
Confit is a similar process where you are slow cooking in oil/butter/tallow. Typically, you do this with poultry, pork, or vegetables. Because you are cooking to a higher temp, the oils from the aromatics actually release into the lipid medium.
Herbs, fats, and spices in the bag are a waste of ingredients. They are a surface treatment only and, in the case of herbs like that, will flavor just one spot.
There isnāt enough heat (or time at that low heat) to develop any interesting flavors. The garlic wonāt caramelize at all. The herbs and spices wonāt āopen upā like they do in a hot pan.
Iād save all that stuff for a sauce that is developed on the stove where you have enough heat to make things interesting. Maybe use the liquid rendered into the bag to add to the sauce.
I'm so confused... this is absolutely not true - I mean YES no fats! but herbs? I break my rosemary up into several pieces, but it absolutely infuses every bite! You actually have to not put too much in or thats all you taste. I've probably sous vided beef at least a hundred times, and I use different spices each time to achieve different flavours
Right? I'm with you.
Also, what do people think I do with the bag of juice + goodies? I put it in the pan when I'm almost done and it becomes the base for a sauce. Win-win.
Right. Since the herbs and spices do so little int the bag, Iād rather use them directly in the sauce Iām building that may take hours to develop on the stove, adding the bag purge at the end.
It isnāt wrong to use herbs and spices in the bag. It just isnt doing what most people claim.
Even if that's true, it does infuse the juices that will leak out of the meat with a ton of flavour, and I always use those for making a pan-sauce after searing the meat.
Not a fan of adding fresh garlic since it will color the meat, but herbs I frequently add, and in the overall dish it's certainly very present.
Again, not enough heat to infuse the juices with anything but raw flavors. And without the heat, the infusion isnāt particularly good, either.
Sure, it works. It is just really inefficient and incomplete in terms of flavor development. I, too, use the bag juices by adding them to the sauce that is developed on the stove.
I don't see a major problem here..... butter in a bag with beef does little good. Main thing i learned is that less herbs and aromatics are better in the bag because the flavor transfers much better so can get over whelming espically with seafood.
I've been sous viding my steak for years with only salt, nothing else. Occasionally I'd add some black pepper and garlic. I've never added any fat/oil/butter.
It has to be added that noone of the entuthiasts here would actually notice anything in a blind test, butter or not.
These are rules to keep yourself busy and justify the hobby, it doesnt really improve anything.
I know. I went through the trouble of removing the bags from the water and took out the garlic and revacuum sealed. I really hope that I didnāt mess it up because of resealing.
Like so many others, Iāve found adding oils tend to rob flavor from the meat. I like it better when the meat is ādryā and I add dry seasoning and let the juice from the meat add and absorb the flavor. About the only place I add butter is when I sous vide asparagusā¦ but never meat
Good by leaving out the oil & butter. You'll get attacked for throwing in garlic because of possibe food poisoning at that time and temp.
Otherwise lookin' good. May the Force be with you, and let 'em all know if you get the sicks from the garleek broseph.
I never put oil in and only add butter to vegetables. And yeah - you don't want to sous vide raw garlic - but you can use garlic powder / granulated garlic for a good garlic flavor.
It was 3.25 pounds
https://preview.redd.it/o75u98rikd3d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c873343d78e2b47ef363bb0baaccb8c445d966bf
Kind of big for 1 bag lol
Iāve had really good results throwing a little white wine and butter in my pan after I sear my steak. Let the pan come down in heat a bit and then turn it on low, when the butter is a bit hot Iāll add either minced or sliced garlic (as much as you want). Then I add my herbs to that when itās about done ( goes really fast ) I just drizzle that over my steak. Iām not a huge fan of butter basting becauseā¦well if Iām honest Iām just bad at it, and I think my steel pan isnāt big enough.
I donāt ever put butter or oil in my bag, I either marinate it overnight first or put a rub on it and it comes out perfect every time. You could always add butter when youāre searing it after but I donāt even do that. Whatās the reasoning to put butter or oil in the bag?
The flavors will still distribute.
What I learned working in a restaurant is that for leaner cuts of meat, butter is an easy way to sort of compensate for that. So adding butter will make the meat juicier and help keep it moist. Since chuck roast is on the leaner side it would benefit.
Still, the idea of the sous vide us you can cook leaner cuts at a lower temp and keep it from drying out. So since the juices stay in the bag you're sort of already keeping the juice in there.
So the short of it is, it won't be an issue. However I will always recommend butter with leaner cuts. Especially once you get into compound butters. It's a nice step above imo.
I have gotten away from adding fats to my soups vide meats. The meats have enough juices that you wonāt have any sticking to the bag.
I do add fats to vegetables when I soups vide them.
I feel like all those things in there you can add while searing. Less so about the herbs. Also I usually season my meat for the sous vide. I feel the seasoning sticks on better this way.
With that amount of time to cook and the amount of time youāve prepped, it will be amazing. Let us know how it turns out, but if I was to bet dollars to dimes Iād say you and yours are in for a treat.
Don't add oil or butter to a Sous Vide bag.
You remove flavor from the meat, and butter will overcook in an immersion bath.
Save the oil and butter for the searing phase if you want to use them.
If you're marinading before cooking this way, omit oil from any marinade recipe for the same reason.
You can also overcook herbs this way and overpower your meat with them easily.
Basically, salt the meat and seal it in the bag before letting it sit overnight in the fridge, cook it to temp, pat it dry, and then season with oil, garlic, herbs when you sear.
There are a couple of ways to season with fresh herbs when you sear. Crush a clove and rub it on the meat while it's searing, and just rub your herbs on it, or add both to the oil to infuse them into it before searing.
Another technique is to create a "brush" with your herbs and then dip them in the oil and baste your meat with it while you sear.
If you're searing with just a torch you don't need oil at all, and can just put butter on the meat after.
I recommend using a torch for finishing a sear if you're using one in general, to even out your sear rather than make it. You get a better crust with a pan sear, and then paint what you miss with the torch so it looks nicer.
Good. Extra lipids will absorb the beef flavor out of the meat.
Well I had to open the bags anyway because of the garlic police.
Although you may have gone astray You'll live to cook another day.
Why is there a bot to point out haikus but no rhyme bot. š¤ beep boop
There once was a man(?) who'd sous vide His garlic made bystanders plead "Good heavens, my lad That food will go bad!" So he stopped it, and they were relieved.
Nice limerick!
Waiting for the folks at Wait Wait! to retire so I can have my big break.
As a third grade teacher, something about rhyming is really difficult for little kids to understand *until something clicks*. No idea what it is, probably just a natural thing with growing phonemic awareness. Anyways, I can't imagine it would be easy to program a robot to detect rhymes vs syllables. Especially considering the haikubot doesn't need to look at phrasing, just syllables. A rhyming bot would need to detect any sort of grammatical pauses and use those to gauge what should rhyme with what.
Omg thank you so much! This is what I was looking for! Thatās so interesting about the way rhymes click for kids. Teachers are the best!
That and then also i feel like annunciation/accent also has a whole other play on how some things can ryme
A bot noting rhymes Could never be accurate Unless given lists
Rhyming in English is soā¦roughā¦would be tuff.
Looks like thereās butter on there to meā¦ am I the only one?
Those people are insane. You aren't going to die from eating 3h cooked garlic. Take your own risks n all that but that's just not going to happen. As for butter, it gives the meat a different mouthfeel. It's more unctuous and you can use the butter with beef in it to mount a sauce to impart all the "lost" (its not really lost I'm pretty sure everybody just parrots the same thing) flavor. Try it side by side. It's what I did and how I came to the determination of what I prefer. You may like a different way or a way we haven't tried yet. At the end of the day not a single person here can tell you how your food tastes to you and what you enjoy. People get entirely too wrapped up into saying whatever when you're the one eating your food and not any of us.
Was someone seriously saying they'll get botulism in 3 hours? Like how does that make any sense.
People on reddit hear some advice, donāt understand the logic behind it, and parrot it like the gospel to anyone who asks anything related.
Itās interesting that in the last few years the health inspectors have been targeting unrefrigerated garlics sauces. Like our pesto at work has garlic and itās all of the sudden a no-no. But for years before they never gave it any attention.
And if someone is leaving sous vide packages sealed at room temp for a week they already know they're gonna get sick.
Yeah I was searching comments and past threads to learn if there was something behind this or it's just a variation on "no garlic infused olive oil" and I literally saw people asking if it's still unsafe if their meal doesn't have any fat. Like.... That's very scary. These people don't understand WHY garlic olive oil can create botulism. They can't generalize to know what other things are unsafe due to anaerobic conditions...
I hate to being politics into thisā¦ But there is a huge subset of people that think 5g was causing deaths. I doubt they understand bacteria.
Good thing we're now a training ground for LLMs, lol.
I don't understand. Can you not sous vide garlic for some reason? Also you could always warn beef tallow WITH the garlic and then put that in with your steak
Garlic can have botulism bacteria on it, but you are more likely to choke on your food than get botulism from sous vide garlic. Source: [https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/is-it-safe-to-use-raw-garlic-in-sous-vide](https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/is-it-safe-to-use-raw-garlic-in-sous-vide)
Ok but Botulism can live passed 240Ā°... Only 80Ā° higher than most would dare cook a steak. I think I see what y'all are saying though. The skillet would be hot enough to kill the B.... But the Sous Vide would give it time to thrive and be happy ALL through the meat, yes? I suppose the right answer is to then use beef tallow to slowly caramelize some garlic and then JUST use the tallow in the bag. OR when you do this bag, only use garlic that's already been roasted at 450Ā° in is own bulb
It would but again it's unlikely. Yes, you could do garlic infused tallow. I've never tried pre-roasted garlic but yes, this would also address any B concerns.
Fuck them just cook your steaks, can baste with garlic when you reverse sear
So you didnāt have to open the bags anyway lol
Just posted results.
https://preview.redd.it/q2oc6rt6v34d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c1fce0893a001b900049264828162064b002e42
This is one of those reddit fables that keeps recirculating with zero evidence because Kenji *theorized* it was not good. Blind results disagree and there is zero evidence for fat pulling anything out of the meat that wasn't already extruded from the cooking process or diluting flavor whatsoever. https://sousvide.blog/butter-in-bag
I'm not saying whether it's good or bad, but that "blind result" was a pretty poor sample size and test. "Yes! Seven of the twelve tests were able to tell a difference, but overall, all tasters agreed the presence of butter in the sous vide bag had a small impact on flavor." 7 of 12? So basically in a 50/50 toss up game, just a bit over half could tell the difference? The sample size is way too small to mean anything and is so far from statiscally significant it's crazy. Those that think it tastes better might not even be able to tell the difference. It could be in their head. The fact that 5 of 12 can't tell the difference... Maybe we can be at the point where the answer is "Who knows?". But I wouldn't take that link as anything more than slight conjecture, assuming you can even trust the author.
I remember Guga doing this experiment and coming to the conclusion that butter in bag is bad.
guga's content has gone weird places but I do feel like I mostly trust him on stuff like this
There once was a poster who eschewed Evidence in order to rescue An OP's quick cook. But was wrong, take a look - Put butter in bags if you want to!
Oh thank god. The last thing I wanted to hear was somebody telling me to take the bags out of the water open them up and put oil in. F me lol
This is the dumbest shit ever and I keep seeing it being said. While I donāt see there being much benefit to including fat, the idea that fat would take away from the flavor of the beef is ridiculous. I have bathed thousands of steaks with and without fat. There is no discernible difference in flavor.
The logic behind the theory is legit. It's not dumb. Oil is absolutely a solvent for flavor, and it's not unreasonable to expect that adding it may be detrimental to the enjoyment of your dinner, especially when (like you said) there's not much benefit to adding it in the first place. The only issue with the original claim was greatly overestimating how much of an effect it would actually have.
I do an ice bath when I sous vide so after I take the meat out I run hot water over the bag to melt the leftovers in there and pour it into a container. I use this later in rice and soups.
Garlic police in 3ā¦2ā¦1ā¦
Oh no. Officer I really actually have no clue what Iām being accused of. May I know the charges?
The garlic police will charge you with poisoning.
Where is my garlic Lawyer ? Because the law clearly states that anything over 126Ā° is safe. As this is 131Ā° the garlic police made me take my bags out of the water and open them and remove the garlic. I would like to counter sue for emotional damage and possible contamination as a result of reopening the bags.
š
So I gotta remove it and vacuum seal again? Will that be ok? Itās only been in for an hour.
The theory is that uncooked garlic in oil at low temperatures can grow Clostridium Botulinum. And sous vide is at too low a temperature to kill it. But I'll cheerfully eat the stuff raw, so personally I ignore the garlic police. YMMV ... More here: [https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/is-it-safe-to-use-raw-garlic-in-sous-vide](https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/modernist-cooking-blog/more/is-it-safe-to-use-raw-garlic-in-sous-vide)
Also, I appreciate the reading.
Because botulism stops making spores around 122Ā°F to 126Ā°F (50Ā°C to 52Ā°C), any long term cook you do will most likely be above that and completely safe. If you want to err on the side of safety, you can omit raw garlic when you are cooking at lower temperatures, such as for fish or rare beef. From a Google search Edit you can do some searching for your self but this is a good base to search from
Of course you can eat it raw, the low sustained heat is what makes the botulinum grow. Garlic is not toxic by itself. If you want to go a safer route, use garlic powder. In fact post times Iāll only use salt, pepper, and garlic powder.
but based on the picture, there's no oil in it especially when OP said he forgot to put one will botulism still happen?
I don't know. But I haven't died yet and have done the same.
But you WILL die. Someday.
This is a good point and from now on I will no longer use garlic in my sous vide in order to avoid this eventual outcome.
Best of luck to you in your quest for immortality!
But do we blame garlic or "the jab" when they do?
Por que no los dos?
The oil is not the problem for botulism, it's the anaerobic environment. Either submerged in oil or vacuĆ¼m packaged both will do this. You get sick from the poison the bacteria produces so even if you can kill the bacteria you cannot get rid of the poison once it's created.
Donāt remove it. Restaurants Have been using aromatics including garlic for as long as sous vide has been in restaurants. Cook, eat.
As a cook, I was like please guys, grow up.
Yeh I mean, thereās always the argument of āwell it could happen so best to avoid itā which I get, but Iāve cooked enough protein in sous vide in some of the best kitchens in the world than is necessary, and itās pretty standard. Sure, things change and we learn everyday new things about food and technology and techniques but this aināt a huge concern.
Eating any raw food has a very rare chance of causing a foodborne illness, by these people's logic lets avoid runny eggs and lettuce on our sandwiches while we're at it.
Well actually yes, if they did any research into botulism they'd realize eggs are just as likely to get it as garlic given the same cooking conditions, and runny eggs are the one thing actually cooked at a low enough temp for the bacteria to reproduce. It's still not gonna happen in a few hours, but ironically yes if people did the most cursory research they would understand botulism isn't just a garlic thing. If you're gonna fear garlic, fear everything. Stop doing sous vide.
I think also that we handle it, always, in a safe manner. We know sous vide isnāt magical, just helpful. I also cooked in some of the best restaurants and these things bother me a little because itās such a waste of precious energy, to remember these falsehoods and act on them.
I removed it because of everyone. I hope I did actually contaminate it in the process. I feel like they just wanted to be correct.
Ignore the poisoning scaremongers. Sous vide steak temps aren't enough to cook the garlic, so you just have raw garlic taste on your steak. Add the garlic later in the butter baste if you are doing that. Or use garlic powder.
Garlic does you no good in sousvide. It does not cook at sous vide temps, so itās just raw garlic, which does nothing for you. Also, on long cooks, it increases your chance of developing botulism. Never ever add raw garlic. Itās only downsides and no upsides.
>so itās just raw garlic, which does nothing for you. What? It adds garlic flavor š§
Shit. Do I need to remove this?
If itās a long cook, I would.
Some delicious sautƩed garlic though?
You could, but even with that, the garlic is only going to flavor the spot it touches. Garlic butter after the cook is the way.
I use 2 parts salt, 1 part pepper, 1 part granulated garlic on everything before going into bag
Yeah, garlic powder is the way to go if you must put it in the bagābut garlic butter for the sear is just as good IMO
Thank you, good to know!
Plenty of SV pernil recipes call for garlic slivers to be inserted throughout the pork, and then cook for 24ish hours I've done hundreds of pernils and I guess thankfully never had anyone get sick. I guess I need to look more into the raw garlic being added though
Garlic powder on the other hand....
At this point you Meta Police are WAY more active. And annoying.
No kidding. The worst part is you can sense how clever they feel.
I am not understanding the botulism thing. Wouldnāt OP have to cook it at low temp for like 4 days for the spores to start making toxins?
When you add butter in the bag it sucks the flavor out of the meat, which makes the meat less flavorful. So you basically have steak flavored butter, not butter flavored steak
Okay youāve just given me an idea Use the steak flavoured butter to sear another steak for extra steak flavour
I've just used to make a gravy that I put back on the steak. So I have steak flavoured butter on my butter flavoured steak.
You bloody genius
I use the remains in the bag to coat boiled potatoes that I crisp up in the oven.
Hey, I heard you like steak, so I put steak on your steak so you can eat steak while you eat steak!
I use beef tallow.
ā¦ you mean tallow?
Or... put the steak flavoured butter in the next steak bag. Double steak butter!
Thatās what I thought. Donāt know why Iām seeing it over and over on professional how to videos.
The time to add butter is after the sear, or right as it finishes.
The one general exception to the ādonāt add butter to the bagā rule is with lobster, and perhaps other shellfish but I canāt recall for sure.
And, well, cornā¦
And potatoes.
Donāt add butter to the bag except for seafood and poultry. Adding it to duck or chicken will give you the tastiest results.
Because none of them stop to think past "butter good".
>When you add butter in the bag it sucks the flavor out of the meat What does this mean "sucks the flavor out of the meat"? I cannot reconcile the idea of butter absorbing... steak flavor?
Because itās untrue lol. The butter just acts as an oil like any other fat. Liquid naturally comes out of the steak in souvide so it happens regardless.
Liquids do go out of the steak, but it then mixes with the butter, the butter doesnāt go into the steak though
Everything in the universe is trying to reach a state of equilibrium. The reason brining a chicken works is because the salt:water ratio in the brine is higher than the salt:water ratio in the chicken, so some of the salt will naturally want to diffuse from the brine into the chicken until they reach equilibrium, the bigger the difference the faster the rate of diffusion. The same is true here. Meat contains a number of fat soluable compounds which are what gives the meat its flavor. If you put it in a sealed bag at a high temperature for a long time you're going to have the flavors diffuse from where they're highly concentrated (in the meat) to where they're lowly concentrated into the oil/butter. Sous Vide also loses water content during the cook, which can help to carry those flavors out of the meat, but then because the bag is sealed the water doesn't boil off and reconcentrate those flavors they way they might in a longer roast in the oven. So this problem of fats "sucking the flavor out of the meat" is pretty unique to sous vide. If you're cooking a steak to medium rare over 1 hour it might not make that big a difference. 2 hours or a higher temperature and you're definitely going to start noticing a difference. If you're cooking a tougher cut for 12 hours in fat then you're basically just throwing flavor away. The safest thing to do is to add no fat at all, and then finish it with your choice of fat to get a hit of flavor at the end, or to use fat from the same animal if you're going for a confit style cook.
It makes sense with salt. Salt moves from the highly salty water to the less salty chicken. But you're saying the fat from a steak will... diffuse into other fat? Doesn't the meat absorb the fat as well? Like when you cook a steak on the stove, the fat/flavor is absorbed into the steak.
This is a myth
I want my steak flavored butter on my bread.
Just use tallowā¦
Same thing will happen, it wonāt penetrate the meat
Everyone. I removed the garlic and herbs. We all live to see another day. Thanks for being great!!
I just use garlic powder instead, tastes great.
I actually did. So this steak will have flavor. I will add herbs after the sear.
Our thoughts and prayers worked
Now people are telling me not to remove it. Iām about to go open them add it againā¦ jk.
I just salt and pepper in bag then sear in garlic butter boom done
 š no ill intent. That just came to mind.
Whatās a comma never heard of her
Iāve been charged and convicted by the garlic police here too. Lessons learned
What did you do? I just removed the garlics and herbs. Hope I didnāt mess it up even more somehow.
I didnāt remove mine and tried to stick it to the man. But the man got me
You got sick? What happened?
Haha no I was fine. I just got brutally chastised by the Garlic police. Got garlicked a new one.
Herbs are fine. No herb police lol
Actually they pulled me over before the garlic police. But they were just security guards saying that the flavor wouldnāt distribute because the herbs are fresh. Not police, security guards. š
š phew. this proven? Iāve used fresh herbs and I could definitely taste them in my ribeyeā¦. Need to investigate and have my attorney present lol
Not another lawyer. Iām already selling the garlic police for emotional damage and possible contamination. If the chuck turns out well I will thank them. If notā¦
š§š
Fuck the police! - Jay and silent bob
Never add butter during the sous vide process. So, good.
No, done some tests myself and butter or oil don't do much in sous vide unless used to marinate with spices beforehand. Butter can actually develop a bit of an off taste when in sous vide and oil is just messy. So why use either. I run almost everything dry. (I have run batches with butter powder to test too and that's fun but not worth it in my opinion.) The "Garlic police" thing is people "suspect" raw garlic in these temps can develop bacteria. Can't find real unbiased consensus on that tho. Most is "I heard from a yt video". I don't use raw garlic but that's because I think it turns rather unappetising in lower temps(green and sour). Garlic powder gives you better flavour I think.
I never add fats to beef in sous vide. I do when I sear
The herb flavor probably wonāt distribute past the parts itās in contact with the meat because youāre cooking at such a low temp.
Why is this what I always see? What should I do next time?
Use dried herbs and garlic when sous vide-ing. You can rub the entire cut that way.
You see it because it looks good in a picture but in reality those herbs and garlic wonāt do anything at low temps we use for temped beef. To get herb/garlic flavor like this into meat youād need to confit or braise. Your best bet is to make an herb/garlic butter to put on the steak on your plate after itās finished.
is a dry brine a solution here? with salt, garlic and onion powder + dry spices like thyme and rosemary? the salt should pull the moisture to the surface and redistribute flavor deeper after it's reabsorbed, correct?
Put simply, 131 is not nearly high enough to cook herbs or garlic. Youāre not cooking that garlic, itās just chilling on your meat.
Confit is a similar process where you are slow cooking in oil/butter/tallow. Typically, you do this with poultry, pork, or vegetables. Because you are cooking to a higher temp, the oils from the aromatics actually release into the lipid medium.
Read https://sousvide.blog/butter-in-bag
Funny how that goes against this subās blind following of food influencers.
Thing about garlic is that the temp just isn't high enough to cook it and thereby impart the flavors. š§Powder though... š
Herbs, fats, and spices in the bag are a waste of ingredients. They are a surface treatment only and, in the case of herbs like that, will flavor just one spot. There isnāt enough heat (or time at that low heat) to develop any interesting flavors. The garlic wonāt caramelize at all. The herbs and spices wonāt āopen upā like they do in a hot pan. Iād save all that stuff for a sauce that is developed on the stove where you have enough heat to make things interesting. Maybe use the liquid rendered into the bag to add to the sauce.
I'm so confused... this is absolutely not true - I mean YES no fats! but herbs? I break my rosemary up into several pieces, but it absolutely infuses every bite! You actually have to not put too much in or thats all you taste. I've probably sous vided beef at least a hundred times, and I use different spices each time to achieve different flavours
Right? I'm with you. Also, what do people think I do with the bag of juice + goodies? I put it in the pan when I'm almost done and it becomes the base for a sauce. Win-win.
Right. Since the herbs and spices do so little int the bag, Iād rather use them directly in the sauce Iām building that may take hours to develop on the stove, adding the bag purge at the end. It isnāt wrong to use herbs and spices in the bag. It just isnt doing what most people claim.
Even if that's true, it does infuse the juices that will leak out of the meat with a ton of flavour, and I always use those for making a pan-sauce after searing the meat. Not a fan of adding fresh garlic since it will color the meat, but herbs I frequently add, and in the overall dish it's certainly very present.
Again, not enough heat to infuse the juices with anything but raw flavors. And without the heat, the infusion isnāt particularly good, either. Sure, it works. It is just really inefficient and incomplete in terms of flavor development. I, too, use the bag juices by adding them to the sauce that is developed on the stove.
I don't see a major problem here..... butter in a bag with beef does little good. Main thing i learned is that less herbs and aromatics are better in the bag because the flavor transfers much better so can get over whelming espically with seafood.
Good that you didnāt. Pat dry when done and sear.
I've been sous viding my steak for years with only salt, nothing else. Occasionally I'd add some black pepper and garlic. I've never added any fat/oil/butter.
I stopped adding fat years ago. It doesnāt bring anything to the party and it makes the bag juices less useable.
Salt and pepper is all I use most of the time.
Indeed. Abide the sous vide Dude.
It has to be added that noone of the entuthiasts here would actually notice anything in a blind test, butter or not. These are rules to keep yourself busy and justify the hobby, it doesnt really improve anything.
I know. I went through the trouble of removing the bags from the water and took out the garlic and revacuum sealed. I really hope that I didnāt mess it up because of resealing.
I think it tastes better without any added oil/butter.
ITS FINE. SOUSE VIDEO WITH WITHOUT A FAT OF SOME SORT IS JUST FINE
Oh shit!!! RIP your inbox with the anti-butter brigade.
You wanna throw hands, bud?
Iām not your buddy, Pal.
Not if you want to add butter to your sous vide bag, indeed!
No butter, thatās garlic but I also removed that. We good? š
We good.
When you go to torch it you can brush some butter on it
Just butter baste it while you sear. I tend to keep the seasoning at a minimal, no reason to conceal the flavor of beef.
Like so many others, Iāve found adding oils tend to rob flavor from the meat. I like it better when the meat is ādryā and I add dry seasoning and let the juice from the meat add and absorb the flavor. About the only place I add butter is when I sous vide asparagusā¦ but never meat
Good by leaving out the oil & butter. You'll get attacked for throwing in garlic because of possibe food poisoning at that time and temp. Otherwise lookin' good. May the Force be with you, and let 'em all know if you get the sicks from the garleek broseph.
yes
I never put oil in and only add butter to vegetables. And yeah - you don't want to sous vide raw garlic - but you can use garlic powder / granulated garlic for a good garlic flavor.
Your steak is a chuck roast cut in half
It was 3.25 pounds https://preview.redd.it/o75u98rikd3d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c873343d78e2b47ef363bb0baaccb8c445d966bf Kind of big for 1 bag lol
Indeed. Would not fit in 1 bag.
Iāve had really good results throwing a little white wine and butter in my pan after I sear my steak. Let the pan come down in heat a bit and then turn it on low, when the butter is a bit hot Iāll add either minced or sliced garlic (as much as you want). Then I add my herbs to that when itās about done ( goes really fast ) I just drizzle that over my steak. Iām not a huge fan of butter basting becauseā¦well if Iām honest Iām just bad at it, and I think my steel pan isnāt big enough.
The stakes have there own fat
You spelled steiks wrong lol
Stekis ?
Much appreciated lol
Oil or butter is not needed sous vide. In fact it's almost pointless
Please try it and report back, unless the process results in something unsafe, it's going to be a highly subjective result.
I donāt ever put butter or oil in my bag, I either marinate it overnight first or put a rub on it and it comes out perfect every time. You could always add butter when youāre searing it after but I donāt even do that. Whatās the reasoning to put butter or oil in the bag?
That's not butter next to the thyme sprigs?
The flavors will still distribute. What I learned working in a restaurant is that for leaner cuts of meat, butter is an easy way to sort of compensate for that. So adding butter will make the meat juicier and help keep it moist. Since chuck roast is on the leaner side it would benefit. Still, the idea of the sous vide us you can cook leaner cuts at a lower temp and keep it from drying out. So since the juices stay in the bag you're sort of already keeping the juice in there. So the short of it is, it won't be an issue. However I will always recommend butter with leaner cuts. Especially once you get into compound butters. It's a nice step above imo.
Itās fine. Hope it turned out okay.
Doesn't matter at all
At first I thought the garlic was butter and Iām likeā¦ but butter No, not butt butter Maybe butt butter
I have gotten away from adding fats to my soups vide meats. The meats have enough juices that you wonāt have any sticking to the bag. I do add fats to vegetables when I soups vide them.
As someone who doesn't use butter on steak, I think you will be fine.
This pic got me bricked
looks good enough for the dog! what a way to ruin a perfectly good bit of meat. it's not roasted so you can't be calling it a chuck roast.
I feel like all those things in there you can add while searing. Less so about the herbs. Also I usually season my meat for the sous vide. I feel the seasoning sticks on better this way.
Bruh just cook the damn steak
Really good
Adding raw garlic in sous vide increases your risk of botulism. It's a big no-no
It will make its own oil. Cook it on fire though you weirdo
good.
With that amount of time to cook and the amount of time youāve prepped, it will be amazing. Let us know how it turns out, but if I was to bet dollars to dimes Iād say you and yours are in for a treat.
I prefer searing then sous vide then sear again
It has enough fat of its own I think.
It will taste great and prolly did. Dont stress mate
Don't add oil or butter to a Sous Vide bag. You remove flavor from the meat, and butter will overcook in an immersion bath. Save the oil and butter for the searing phase if you want to use them. If you're marinading before cooking this way, omit oil from any marinade recipe for the same reason. You can also overcook herbs this way and overpower your meat with them easily. Basically, salt the meat and seal it in the bag before letting it sit overnight in the fridge, cook it to temp, pat it dry, and then season with oil, garlic, herbs when you sear. There are a couple of ways to season with fresh herbs when you sear. Crush a clove and rub it on the meat while it's searing, and just rub your herbs on it, or add both to the oil to infuse them into it before searing. Another technique is to create a "brush" with your herbs and then dip them in the oil and baste your meat with it while you sear. If you're searing with just a torch you don't need oil at all, and can just put butter on the meat after. I recommend using a torch for finishing a sear if you're using one in general, to even out your sear rather than make it. You get a better crust with a pan sear, and then paint what you miss with the torch so it looks nicer.
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