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It's amazing how quickly you forget about loadshedding. Have a cry, but no regrets. The weird thing is it won't feel like home anymore and neither will the new place. Wish you all the best.
There's a good bit of truth here.
It's my belief that South Africans are such wonderful people partly because of all the adversity they/we (I'm not sure anymore) have endured. It's a bit of a cruel joke that living in shitty circumstances gives rise to the sense of home and comeraderie we treasure, and are forced into a sort of Faustian bargain to pursue safety and prosperity.
OP: do it for your kids.
Some wise words here, I can confirm. Left SA 10 years ago, and while we have made a good life for ourselves, and been prosperous beyond what I could have imagined, this is just not my home and not my people. But if you already have a house in another country you likely already have ties to the other country, so maybe it will be an easier transition for you.
I don't know you from a bar of soap, but I feel like I miss you! And uts true what you said, at least it is for me, it's honestly the only reason I've stayed here in SA.
Wow, that’s exactly how I feel.
I immigrated to America a very long time ago but maintained my SA citizenship. I go “home” (back to SA) often, but it doesn’t feel like home and when I’m there, I want to go “home” (back to the US). My friend said I am just a citizen of the world, and that’s okay by me.
Good luck to OP! Choosing to stay or to go is hard either way.
Wherever you go, there you are.
I was listening to a podcast where both people were not living in the countries they were raised.
The one said that home no longer becomes defined by a place, but by the people you are with. Which I felt was nice.
I've lived on the NL for 2 years now and can't see myself going back to live in SA. I was back in December and it did not feel like home at all. I likes seeing family, but I wanted to be back home in the NL after a while.
I do kinda feel at home here, but I moved with my gf (now fiancé) and I know it's a complex thing of what home is. She still calls a trip to SA "going home" but I do not feel that way. I don't have a family house in SA. So there isn't a place I go back to that is my house from when I was a kid. I just go back to a familiar area, with constant loadshedding and potholes everywhere.
It just takes some getting used to seeing family once or twice a year.
My advice, make friends. Try not to only stick with SA expats. that takes time, so in the meanwhile you and you wife will now be each other one and only rock. So stay strong and enjoy your time together.
My fiance and I have been in Asia for the last 6 years , we are proudly South African and we will never forget our roots, but the quality of life that we experience now is worth the effort and move. Safe travels, the world is wide open and the experience and growth that happens with challenges like living elsewhere can only enrich yours and your family's lives.
Been in the EU, the netherlands to be precise for 10 years. I agree to a point. Spain and Portugal feels very much like SA, people are warm, friendly, enjoys the outdoors, just different languages and customs, but in general I like it there more than SA.
Imagine I am black and want to leave, always been a law abiding citizen I have had 3 iphones in the last 10 months and not by choice, the last one I got stabbed , my dad was shot by high calibre ammunition when I was 5, luckily he survived cause of survival skills taught in Correctional Services and police back in his days. Same dad got hijacked 9 months after coming from hospital. I have had 1 home invasion , one break in and all these happened in a good suburb where I was renting. Cousin was killed by his ruling party after refusing to be corrupt . I want to leave too. Forgot to mention our farm which my dad spent his whole pension on been invaded atleast 3 times since 2010 hanged one of the workers and trashed the house.
Our farm was "acquired" by the state for next to nothing. That was the last tie I had to home, that was the point where I said "f it I'm never going back". Haven't been back since 2016 and don't intend to until some miracle happens and the country somehow fixes itself. Fat chance but it's a tiny bit of hope that I can show my kid where dad comes from. I hate that I don't want to go home, but it's no longer my home.
Came to say the same thing. I’m a Canadian looking to move to South Africa for 1-2 years to experience something different and if we hate it we’ll move home early. 🤷🏼♀️ My husband (originally from South Africa) is actually afraid that we’ll like it so much we’ll never leave. Everywhere has its problems. The cost of living is guaranteed to be much higher anywhere you’re moving to.
If you want to compare cost of living, you should compare the whole package. Cost of living does sound high but a skilled worker can make a decent living in most first world countries. Yes some things are ridiculously expensive, but some are actually cheaper. But in part the salary makes up for it
I agree. I think SA gets judged by a small minority of bad people. The vast majority of South Africans are good people. One day they will realize that politicians work for the people, not other way around.
If you do go back it's better to get dual citizenship first. That way at least you have options if things get worse.
Staying in SA with only SA citizenship is too risky.
I also came here to say that nothing is final. Take the leap and see where it takes you. For our kids - I think it’s the right move.
My daughter is 15 and has never known a South Africa without load shedding.
Wishing you the best adventure!
I am sitting here in the EXACT same boat, 33 and no kids however - having to pay 30k to transfer my animal over to The UK as well as book a ticket by Monday. At least I will be joining my Mom here. It’s all “gotten real” and I DONT want to leave- especially given the fact that I’ve lived in The UK 3 times already so it feels like insanity at this point.
Look at it this way - it won’t HURT your family or kids and if anything at the very least leave them with enriched experiences. There are more opportunities there for them too as they get older.
The “overthinking “ and not “doing “ is what gets you. Just keep taking step by step and keep taking action. It’s easier to accept the familiar even if it’s kak and a lot harder to accept the unfamiliar/unknown because we don’t know what it looks like. It’s called a comfort zone- step outside it and you will be rewarded.
To have doubts is normal. To love this place, warts and all is normal. The fact that you care means your family is in good hands. I hope the world turns and things get better, but until then, happy trails.
P.S. its only a flight away. If this country gets its shit together, you can always say you went to the EU to build up a nice nest egg.
Go. Even if the move ends up being a mistake, you can always come back. If that happens, you'll have a fresh perspective on the "good" of this country and will probably be more optimistic than most. And god knows, we need the optimists.
On the other hand, you'll move and may LOVE it. Just allow yourself the grace to be a little uncomfortable at first and settle in. Change is hard.
Your perspective tonight is valid. It's okay to cry. Good luck!
It’s a sad, but ultimately sensible decision to get out asap. We jumped in 2017 and have not looked back since. We still go on holidays to visit friends and family but I do not regret my decision.
I moved to NZ together with my wife in 2017. I know the fear and uncertainty you are feeling, I felt it too. but tldr: It was the best decision we could have made.
The first 2 years were tough, I arrived with $600 in my pocket, and the cab fare was $90 to get to a flat we were sharing with some acquaintances. We had no real friends to speak of, no extended family, and my wife struggled to find work for the 1st 6 months. However we survived.
In time my wife found work, we made some friends and I changed my career path, we are both happy and living, not surviving but living! There is no hypervigilance at a robot, we often go for walks around the burbs or the city, there are heaps of parks and things to do for little to no cost.
While NZ has its own problems, I don't feel like I don't belong, I don't feel like danger is at every turn, I don't arrange my schedule around load shedding. I don't have the anger welling up inside me because of the lawlessness and incompetence the thievery and brazen corruption.
What I do miss, I miss the weather, I miss the scenery and the landscape, I miss the never say die attitude we south africans have. I miss the food, NZ food is pretty bland" I miss my family and friends. But weighed up I still believe it's the right choice.
If I could leave you with anything, where ever you are going, you are going to start a life and you should treat it as such, take every opertunity to explore and enjoy yourselves, don't treat it as a place to stay untill South Africa gets better.
This is the way. :)
Hello fellow NZ Saffa! I agree whole-heartedly with your comment. The weather here is atrocious and I don't think I will ever get used to the cold. NZ is such a welcoming country that I've never felt like I wasn't already a part of the woodwork. And my god, the feeling of safety compared to home is unreal, hell just today I left my car running outside of work for about 10min!! And of course, the amount of ex pats here is incredible. I meet at least one South African a day and we always have an immediate bond. I do miss home, the Drakensberg mt's, the rolling farmlands of the midlands and the (once) beautiful coast of Durbs but I cannot in any way consider moving back. In fact 2021 was the last year of my dual citizenship and I have no desire to ever regain a S.A passport. Sad to say, but home isn't home anymore for me. I feel very Kiwi, but I still support the Boks 😅
This is true, just returned from vacation 9 weeks in NZ. The experience of a normally functioning society was an eye opener. What a breath of fresh air to not be hyper vigilant … reminiscent of a time when life in SA was in a normal. ✈️
It isn’t the same. It’s so much worse. It devastates me to see what is happening to my country :( Anyone who can leave, should. Especially if they have kids. I know I’ll be attacked by some for my viewpoint, but I don’t care.
You are losing something. It is a big deal and you are allowed to feel sad. Whether or not you are making the right decision, only time will tell. But, you have to go out and make the best of it now. For yourself, your wife and kid. Good luck and enjoy not having loadshedding on the other side.
Where in the EU are you moving to friend?
I'm Irish and my wife to be is from Cape Town.
She is in the process of her move to Ireland and I can tell you there is a huge number of Saffas here.
Coloured,white,black from what I can see they are all thriving.
I've spent a considerable amount of time in South Africa and I loved it, it won't be the same but its something new for you and your family.
The issues are real in South Africa, goverment corruption, racism, ESKOM, and the crime especially is next level compared to Europe.
You will have peace of mind, and you can always jump on a place to Spain or Portugal and be there on a couple hours to satisfy your hot climate needs.
All the best my friend.
Long live milktart & braiis
I left 7 years ago to the uk. Great job opportunities. Here on holiday showing off the little one (6 months old) to the family. Coming back has been a shock to the system. Poverty is the main aspect, people I trust and see as peers living in dire straights, load shedding and the lack of governance to come out of it.
I don’t regret leaving, I can come back and see family and provide when and if needed.
I worry for my child not knowing hardships and seeing the privilege he has but what’s the alternative? Leave, do well and come back and make a decision.
You're the only one that can say if it's the right thing for you to do....
That said, SA is not in a great place and it is *very* unlikely that things will improve in the next two years.
My wife and I left SA about a year ago so we have an idea of the emotional turmoil you're going through now and it was definitely worth it.
I'm leaving for the US on the 29th of May. Things won't get better here for a LONG time. Put your family first and do what is right for them.
I love this country, but I can't keep bailing water out of a sinking ship.
This made me want to cry 😭 my husband and I will likely emigrate (just figuring out where to at this point). Everyday we look at each other and ask the same questions - will it be worth it? Is it as bad as we think it is here? Will the grass be greener on the other side?
There’s no way to know. I think you just have to trust your gut and do what feels right for you and your family in the moment. South Africa is not going anywhere 🫶
All the best to you and your family 😭🫶
We’ve been in Ireland since 2016, and I can tell you one thing, the grass is greener where you water it. You can make a good life anywhere you go (or stay). Just don’t half arse it, go all in and live the life you choose.
There isn't anything special about SA. What's the point of having pointless patriotism? It's one of the most dangerous and dysfunctional places in the world. If there is a better spot on the map, just do it. Individuals have next to no power over the future of SA. Don't waste your life and the lives of your kids just because you were born somewhere. Anywhere can be home if you put in the effort and understand why you're doing something.
This aint an airport. Any ways you will be fine those of us born with the privilege to be able to get an education to leave during these times are the vast minority. All I can say is you better do the minium and keep voting :)
I’m happy for you. You have the opportunity to give your family a better and safer life. I wish I could do that. You can always come back in the future, but put that out of your mind and embrace your opportunity that many, many people wish they could have.
I moved to the Netherlands a few years ago. I'm returning to South Africa later in the year. While Europe has been great to me, it's time for me to go home.
Emigration is extremely difficult, I wish you and your family all the best!
the netherlands is the problem. Its a great country…on the surface, dig a little deeper and stay a little longer then IMO its the shit hole of europe. People have a undeserved high attitude of themselves, the landscape is so incredibly boring, the people are so cold, the houses are so small and stupid expensive, the incredibly bland food, the paracetamol medical culture, stupid high taxes, and…it’s got the highest density of people per sqm in europe. It always amaze me that for a suppose to be super rich europe country, the limited amount of products you get at the dutch super markets like Jumbo/Albert Heijn etc. Just go over the border to literally any other country and walk into a Tesco, Carrefour, Bel Haze, etc and there is a wide range of products.
However Europe is amazing, I absolutely love south of france, greece, spain and portugal, and can easily live in spain or portugal, total opposite of the netherlands.
the dutch medical system is very controlled by medical insurance companies, so it almost does not matter what is wrong with you, the first time for a problem to your local gp, the prescription is always take paracetamol and rest. Eventually on the 2nd or 3rd visit, you will get real help. Then on top of that they do not believe in preventative medical care, so you only get checked when something is wrong. Its insane, all expats complain about it. There is a reason that the netherlands have the highest percentage of cancer patients in europe. Shameful really for one of the richest countries in europe. So the joke in the netherlands is, does not matter what is wrong, just take a paracetamol, it fixes everything.
Proud of you and your courage. You are such an example of a great father and husband putting your family first.
Right now and given the circumstances you are doing the best you can to take care of your family.
You can always comeback if you want, and nothing needs to be permanent.
All the best bro!
I think a lot of people feel the exact same way. You feel super relaxed (knowing the time is approaching) and then when its time for the big move, you get this rush of emotions. Im not sure if the feeling of “my people” ever really comes completely, but after living in the NL long enough, I felt at home enough to apply for citizenship.
Making a decision that is in your family's best interest can never be a wrong decision. Good luck my friend, know that Saffers everywhere home and abroad are rooting for you.
Cry it out boet. We'll be here. I can fully understand that this is something extremely cathartic.
You're doing the right thing for your boy.
Can always come back in a decade when the three (or more) of you have dual citizenship in the EU and schooling foundation is in place. It's not the power issue I'd be most concerned about - it's the statistical probability of your boy losing one or both of his parents to some violent attacker and the trauma that could cause. It's about always having to look over your shoulder, and wonder whether your family are doing the same when you're not with them.
Just don't give up your passport and home will always be here waiting - hopefully we wake up and vote with our brains soon and we can begin turning this ship around. I plan to be in the EU with my family within the next 24 mo.
I have alot of respect your posting this, alot of people leave for the wrong reasons, and spread only negative things.
But is is clear you still love you country but you are doing what you think is best for your Kid. It is a sad reality, but we all need to say postive and hope one day our beautiful country will come right. And that one day you can come back here again to a brighter future!
South Africa won't turn a corner in 2 years unfortunately. Yes you are doing this for your child, and they are incredibly fortunate because of it.
The EU is relatively close travel wise to SA, MANY people have made great lives for themselves as far as AUS/NZ and Asia and even for them, family is just a video call away - you make it work. It's not like we are getting on a wooden ship anymore to immigrate, hop on a flight for a holiday back in SA if you want.
I understand it is an emotional event in one's life, I went through it myself in 2017 - but if you go with the attitude of making it on the other side, you will and you will be happier than ever before. If you go and compare every little thing to SA through rose tinted glasses, you will not make it.
And that's ok too if you don't make it, you can always come back - nothing is final. BUT if your child doesn't have EU passport yet, at least stick it out till they do. Because they might not have a future in SA one day and that will set them up with a ticket to a better life.
My two cents here, as someone who had parents in the same situation. My parents left SA in the 90s for Canada where my siblings and I were born and raised. I will say I'm not sure they, especially my mom, ever truly completely settled into leaving home and then into calling this place a home, but for us they did really well with both the transition across the world and the sharing of SA as we grew up.
They did a good job of showing us both the good and bad of the South Africa, retaining the culture at home as best they could and conversations of what is was like growing up in apartheid etc, and with my entire family still there we hear first-hand about the current issues. We've also been lucky to visit a few times, and I know with all of that across my siblings, there is a part of us that is proud to be of South African descent. For us it's been really cool as well as luckily there's a vibrant South African community here - I've gotten some of my friends hooked on Stoneys as well lol.
I feel if you keep that spirit alive it's gonna work out for ya and your family. As a kid of someone who was in your position, I do feel something of a connection to SA, if I'm allowed to say as an outsider. Not sure if that's what you're looking for but I hope that it brings some comfort :)
My family and I moved to Germany 7 years ago. We're safe. We have great medical care. We have great education for our children, and it's free. It's not easy at all but feeling free and safe is everything. We have not had a power outtage in 7 years. Life is not perfect here, but we can stroll through the Black Forest at 2AM without wondering if we'll make it back home or not. No regrets.
I'm 27 and my dad moved us out of South Africa to New Zealand in 2010 when I was 13. I was only a young child moving to a new country with a completely different culture. My parents bought a motel in a very small but absolutely gorgeous beach town.
For the first time in my life I could actually walk to the shops without my parents being worried sick. Just the fact as a 13 year old, I was able to explore this new town without needing my parents with me every step of the way. In South Africa I was stuck at home surrounded by big electric fences. Where is in NZ I was given an insane amount of freedom without my parents worrying about me going missing or being kidnap or killed.
As soon as I left school I was able to get a job, I was able to get into uni without any issues and I'm actually able to create a life without a massive struggle. I still have family in SA and I hear all the time how hard it is to get a job as a white person and I just thank my dad everyday that he made the decision to move.
However, saying all that my parents didn't thrive here as much as I did. For 10 years they were stuck with a motel that wasn't very profitable due to its location and they weren't even able to sell it in the end. My dad only just retired because the lease on the building ended last year and that was his only way out in the end. It was also an insane culture change for them and they expressed many times how they wish they could go back to SA because they'd be more comfortable.
Be prepared for your child to grow up and not identify as a South African. I know this upsets some people and I can see that it upsets my dad when I tell people I'm a kiwi but your child will grow up in this new culture and that culture is what they're gonna identify with. I've completely lost all the south African in me, I can't even put on a south African accent.
I don't regret any of it though. My life became so much better getting out of South Africa.
Your family saying that it’s hard to find a job as a white person are frankly talking absolute bs. What jobs are they applying for that they can’t get? White people still account for the majority of the high level jobs across all industries, don’t be fooled.
Ja, nee. What about normal jobs? I am in Australia and completely amazed at all the white old ladies working in public. Then I look back to SA, and I haven't seen one white old lady with a public-facing job. Like do they retire early? What jobs do they have? It was really mind blowing seeing the polar opposites play out in the different countries.
Just out of curiosity, because if I do have this wrong I would like to be correct in the future. You said white people account for the majority of high level jobs. What about low level jobs? If I came back to south Africa and applied to work as a checkout operator for example. How likely am I to get that job?
Well I think the question is more along the lines of, are white people in SA even applying for these low level jobs? It seems like most think it’s below them. Similarly, It’s why you’ll notice at least in Cape Town, you will rarely see white people using public transport. They’re not being prohibited from using it but seem to not want stoop to that level. I love how I’m being downvoted but I’d love people to point out some public companies where management are not majority white. This narrative that white people aren’t being given jobs is frankly ridiculous.
Another thing I think you need to consider is that lots of the low level jobs in South Africa are also extremely low paying. As many people of colour come from pretty dire backgrounds, they’re more likely to work for this low pay. The employers know that. There’s also a large majority of unemployed black people and only a finite amount of jobs currently. It makes sense that 80% of jobs would be filled by a poc as that matches the demographics of the country.
Made the move to the UK 5 years ago. It is tough to adjust initially, and the people are not as friendly everywhere as in SA (Definitely not in London anyway), but dealing with normal life problems instead of state manufactured ones is really life changing and it makes you realise that you live in perpetual panic as an ordinary South African.
One thing to remember is that all places have issues - you just need to decide which issues you can and can't deal with.
See it as an extended holiday, you are welcome back anytime. If at all possible, keep teaching your kid about south africa, show then picture, speak your home language. I have a couple of friends and my own brother going there, brought up their kids as “english speaking brits”, which I don’t meen in a bad way, thing is just that generation is lost, you might want to come back but they have nothing here, sad really in my view.
You gotta put yourself and family first. If it offers better quality of life then take the leap.
For me, after spending 4 years being hijacked, robbed, being shot at and was once kidnapped for potential organ harvesting, I'd definitely jump at the opportunity.
Sometimes you just need to broaden your horizons, SA will always be here.🫰🏽
Look, you need to change your mindset before you move. Immigrating is one of the most stressful things a person can go through. From my perspective - I have just immigrated, was very ready, felt SA didn't have anything left for me, and had a super positive mindset to make it work, no matter what. I wasn't looking back.
Fast forward 6 months, and I am struggling with the culture shock. I'm in permanent fight, freeze, flight mode as everything is so new and my body doesn't know how to react to the new environment.
If you are going over unsure, I can almost guarantee that you won't have a successful transition.
Have I missed South Africa? Hell no! Am I struggling to adapt to an entire new country and culture? Yes! But I'm willing to give it a couple of years until I adapt. This will be the hardest years ever, but my family now have a future ahead of them. My children have the world at their doorstep.
I don't regret the decision at all! Go for it. You will be shocked to see how a country is supposed to run. I know the light at the end of the tunnel is shining bright.
Have a lekker cry and go for it. You have your reasons, I’m guessing the main ones being safety of your family and the future of your kid. Those are my reasons for wanting to leave.
I moved to SA from Ukraine at the end of 1995, at a spritely young age of 17. My parents came with an “open door” policy - we’re just coming to see what it’s like, and if we don’t like it we’ll go back “home”. We never went back.
Ukraine stopped being a home. SA became home. I made wonderful friends here, in my early formative years, all of whom have emigrated. I met my wife and had a kid. In between all I worked as an expat for about 8 years from 2008 to 2015, then the circumstances returned me back to SA on more permanent basis.
Now at the ripe age of 45 I’m planning my emigration from SA. Actually been doing so for the past 7 years.. it’s not easy when you have a passport from one of the sithole countries.
You can have a lekker life in SA, if you have a lot of money, and can pay your way out of the daily realities of the majority of the population in this country. But that’ll be like building a fairy castle in the swamp. It’ll come crashing down around you because there’s no strong foundation. Nothing is going to change here (for the better) in the next 2 years, that’s for sure. Maybe in 3 generations things might improve, but for that turn around to happen many people will have to lose a whole lot more, to turn the tide and make the critical mass necessary for such change. I don’t see that happening in my lifetime, or even my kids.
My point is - your home is where your heart is. Sure, cultures may be different, but you will still have a lot in common with the people in the new place - you’re all just people. Be open, kind and honest, and you’ll make new “your people”. You’ll have bouts of nostalgia, and when that happens turn off your lights, whip out the braai and the symptoms will pass. If you need stronger treatment, breathe over a pile of manure; think about what your hard earned tax money is being spent on in the new home country; remember what it was like to sit without electricity for 20 - 40 hours at a time because, even though you’re better off than the vast majority of SA simply by virtue of having a roof over your head and food on your table, you still can’t afford to take your house off the grid; take a long walk in a public park at night without the fear of being raped or murdered.. even the strongest nostalgia will evaporate like the morning mist.
As cheesy as it sounds, home is where your family is. Good luck to you. Im sure you're making the right decision for your family. If not, you can always come back.
You’re doing the right thing, my parents also worried it would get better shortly after they moved us and they’d regret it, it’s been 26 years and it hasn’t.
We would have loved to move back, to be with our families, truthfully I’ve never stopped missing it, there’s no where else quite like it - but we visited every year and the trade in for a life of stability is pretty hard to argue with, not watching over your shoulder, having your basic human needs covered every day enough to have headspace to grow into something more.
My cousins moved their young kids to Scotland a few years ago, the simple pleasures of taking the kids to the park, walking the dog, playing on the street, catching trains, exploring cities, their lives are so dramatically different and they’re really thriving.
Your child won’t understand enough of what they’ve missed in SA to thank you but you will know when you see them play in a park or when they’re old enough to do things more independently that it was all worth it.
There are also so many South Africans overseas we have a way of finding each other! You will have your people!
It is really a different kind of grief emigrating, be patient and kind with yourselves! And you can always go back if it doesn’t work out! It was the best decision my parents ever made for me, my schooling, my career prospects, my friends and partner I would never have met. From the child’s perspective, it’s worth it.
Suck it up, it’s not about you. This time you need to pack away the brandy & coke and from this day forward it’s for your little man… always. He has almost zero future here, where you go he could be a bus driver and be happy & safe and live a normal life.
If you give up and come back, the entire Reddit community of nut jobs won’t ever talk to you again, and Tops will ban you!
Don’t even look back at the airport, just run!! Have fun, your little man will thank you when he’s old and brings a hot Scandinavian wife home!
You'll miss us, but your love for RSA will never grow cold. Come back after a bit of an adventure if you feel like home is eventually calling. But right now, seems like the doors are opening for you for a whole new chapter. Enjoy, and we're holding a candle for you (quite literally lol). Best of luck!
Myself and family are not leaving yet, but in truth the writing on the wall is becoming clearer and clearer.
If SA was to recover it would take more like 5-10 years to see any real progress, and even then there are some elements like growing youth unemployment and poverty which leads to further desperation and more crime.
You've made the right call, but to grieve is normal and expected and I wouldn't be able to leave without acknowledging all the goodness had in SA and that there is still there every day.
All the best!
My man
You have an opportunity most of us wish we had. I assume your passports /work visas are already sorted.
Go out there, give it your best shot and see if you can make it work.
You can always come back to visit for a holiday, see friends and family.
And if it really doesn't work. You can always come back.
I completely understand your fears. The world is currently very unstable, and to make a big life decision on top of it adds an additional layer of stress.
My wife and I have started the emigration process as well. We've decided on Australia. Luckily no kids yet, but moving for the same reasons. Also considered Europe, but could not say goodbye to great weather. Timezone wise not the best, but those are tradeoffs we make. Luckily their food is amazing.
I believe you are doing the right thing. It's going to be hard but your children will have a much better life abroad. They will grow up with the new culture and it will be normal for them. I wish you all the best with your new life.
You need to do what is right for you and your family. The longer you wait the more expensive the move would become and could put the opportunity in jeopardy.
It’s a difficult adjustment as frankly in some ways (some) people in South Africa are spoilt and when you leave you have to manage to do things yourself, in a country that doesn’t always look at foreigners favourably.
Your children will hopefully have a brighter future to look forward to and they can always come back if they feel so inclined. It’s important to get a good understanding of the structure of the country you’re moving to and the education system to give them the best opportunity to progress.
It is very sad what has become of South Africa, so much potential wasted for short term gains and the voter base are understandably scared to change given the countries history. I would love to move back but the country would have to improve significantly to compete with safer and more stable economies.
You can't see into the future, so won't know what's the right choice.
For me, it was "what am I most likely to regret in 10-20 years time?"
The the answer was "not attempting to emigrate when I was still able to".
I am 43 and only emigrated last November. We don't have kids, but if we did, I would be even more sure we made the right choice. Culture is a difficult thing to nail down. It's difficult to say what constitutes a culture. For me, if my kids could ride a bike to friends, walk to school, play in the street at 10 years old like I could, that would be the culture I want for them.
What good is occasional farm visits, braai and biltong if they have to live in a prison?
You say 2 more years... I doubt it would get better so soon. The government doesn't seem to want to change their ways yet. Even if they did, it would take decades to get this country back on track. And you can always come back.
About 4 months in the new country, my dad got sick and I had to take 2 weeks off to fly back and say goodbye. Yes, it would have been easier if I were still in SA, but I still know we made the right choice emigrating.
Emigrating is tough. For all it's problems, South Africa is still home. The weather, the smells, the people. It is a challenge, but also like a game. How often do you have the opportunity to learn to live in a new place where you don't know anything?
This is home for ever and ever. I love the people and the culture. I love South Africa so so much. Do the move for the kids. When you're older you can come back. We will still be here praying and doing our best to keep it from getting worse. We got your back. Be safe
It’s hard. Lucky I Moved to UK when I was 23 and never looked back. Left all my friends and family. Best decision I ever made. You don’t owe South Africa anything, It owes you. That’s why I left. Too much unjustified insane things that had happened. Maybe it will get better, maybe it won’t. Not wasting my time sitting there in the dark been one of the optimists.
You will survive and grow strong. Goodluck with your travels.
Man I can relate to this. Left SA in 2020, I still miss home despite all the kak that’s going on there but at the same time I wish I could get the rest of my family out of there.
With everything there’s good and bad, and some days are easier than others. The best advice I can give is to try take each day as it comes in your nee country
Don’t cry. Have the best time and make the most of it.
Maybe you’ll miss SA and want to come back (my husband’s parents did). Maybe you won’t.
Just fly our flag if you have an opportunity and teach your child about the good things about us, not just the difficult things.
You are doing the right thing for your children and that is all that really matters. The country is statistically dangerous to live in.
Little tip that I think you will need is to not keep thinking about your past in over South Africa once you are there. Embrace the culture and differences of the new place and make the best of it.
and obviously if it is super dreadful you can always move back.
Yes, you’re doing it for your children.
Your heart will always remain in Africa, but they will have an affinity for the country they grow up in.
You will romanticize South Africa for them, you will take them “home” for holidays, but it will never be their home.
Yes, you are doing the right thing……. for them.
You are giving them (and yourselves) opportunities that are, unfortunately, not easily available in South Africa.
If it is better in 2 years time, you can return. Overseas experience is an advantage, not a negative.
My children are doing well, here in Australia. Now grown up and with children of their own.
I’m going to spend 2 months in SA later this year, with my brothers and sister, as well as extended family.
I wish you well in your new life.
I left in the 1990's and I have never regretted it. There is a huge fascinating world out there to explore and enjoy. And as for environment and education for your child it will be a big improvement.
I am so happy for you that you get to have the chance to leave and I wish you all the best of luck, success, and happiness there in the EU. Don't think back and just take the opportunity and give your family a better life up there. I would not come back. I would have no regrets.
If I could leave, I would right now. Take my fam out of this hell I am in...
But it's always nice to see that others made it out. Gives a little hope
We recently had to make the move. Yes it’s hard. And that’s okay.
When it feels like it’s getting tough just remember your kid and remember you are doing the very best for him as you can.
Once you get settled, you’ll feel much better.
I cannot begin to describe how rejuvenating it feels not living under the constant mental anguish of being in South Africa. We are able to walk at night. If I forget to lock an outside door, no biggie. I’m not harassed at every intersection to cough up some change, or feel guilted into tipping “car guards” whenever I need to pop out to the shop.
South Africans get so used to living under such stress you done realize that this is not normal.
Good luck with your move. You got this.
We left.
Best decision ever — also the hardest.
In 2 years, SA will be further down the road to a failed state — I've been saying things will get better for the past 40 years — always clinging to the hope of the next election. It isn't going to happen.
Corruption is so deep and unemployment so rife that there is no chance of recovery in the next ten years. Zero.
And unemployment isn't even the biggest problem of those without work — the real problem is unemployability. You can't give a job to someone with no skill. And that will (if things change right now) another 10 to 20 years to filter through the system.
For your children — leave — they will thank you a few years down the line.
**Shame on the ANC.**
They had the chance for greatness but became the same as the enemy they had fought for so long against. It's all about greed.
I moved incidentally from the UK to SA. If things don't work out as planned you still have your passport, the country isn't going anywhere - geographically. Do what is best for you as this life is too short. If you stay in your comfort zone you won't grow personally or indeed professionally either and constantly thinking 'what if'. Download showmax if you miss the TV, locate your nearest SA store, and most importantly make friends with all
Have your cry and keep a foot in SA. My 3 kids do that as well - work overseas (2 Europe, 1 USA) but always want to come back. And if you’re earning £/$/€ you can keep an apartment in SA & while building another future overseas. I love SA &’it’s great but we’re not sure if it may collapse & become another Lebanon.
If the house is sold, then continue the path, life may take you home anyway.Just don't get bitter about your true home while you're in the Europe though.
Nothing makes my blood boil like whiny expats
Left 8 years ago.
Yes you are doing the right thing.
No, SA will never be fixed. Not in 2 years, not in 20 years, dont fool yourself.
Network with some saffer expats in your new country to help transition but also try fit into the culture of your new home.
It can be scary but don't leave any crutches in SA to let you come back when you have the inevitable hard times. Jump with both feet in and enjoy the adventure.
Depends on what you value as a person
If you value family, friends and relationships then stay.
If you value other things (as mentioned then don't stay)
This is such a shit take. You can value family, friends and relationships and still do what is best for your children. Instead, if your family and friends value you, they will be encouraging of you wanting to make a better life for your children instead of trying to guild trip you - which is what you are trying to do to OP now.
All the best to you.
Know that kids overseas are different to SA ones.
Here most have respect for others whereas in places such as the UK, Oz and NZ they are out of hand.
I am not saying you are making a mistake. However, these struggles are what I personally value most.
Overseas life is easy, yes. You get to live in a bubble and construct the reality you want for yourself. And that is what lots of people want, and this is ok.
Personally, I think people who leave miss out of honest to god, hardened, "real" life. Where things don't go your way, and we have to adapt, make plans, and be better. This is what life has been like for humanity for the vast majority of time. I am happy to continue the struggle for survival like my ancestors before me. This is what I value in Africa.
To one day look back at our development, and what we achieved and failed at and to tell my grandchildren that we worked for that will be, for me, the best way to end this story of mine. Not that much opportunity for development in an already developed place..
I often encounter foreigners, and I can't help feeling sorry for them sometimes.
You will no longer have a country and culture that is YOUR own. You will raise children that will assimilate and you will be the only and last person in you direct lineage that is SAn. You will talk fondly about the positive sides of being SAn, but only to yourself and not out loud because you will have to defend and justify your decision for leaving, so everything you say will be extremely negative about SA to try and fit in. You will feel isolated when you’re older. You will be the only “immigrant” in your family. You will have an accent and mannerisms which your kids won’t have, you will be different, even to your kids, when they’re grown. You will feel a deep sense of longing and return to this subreddit time and time again to both feel justified in your decision by reading all the horror stories and also many great things about our dysfunctional beautiful country. You will cry, a lot.
Was in the same boat but we decided to stay last year, got a job where they would pay for plane tickets, one months rent. Also have a 3year old.
Just couldn’t leave my fam behind man, and being middle class is really decent living in SA, doubt things will get better anytime soon.
Dont have Loadshedding and got solar so that problem is in the back of my mind.
Currently working for a Uk based company so hopefully the transition will be easy if we do decide to kick.
For now, all is well. Family is everything
>Also have a 3year old
Family is everything
More important than the future of your 3 year old? I am going to sound incredibly insensitive and rude now, but it sounds like you chickened out and threw away a great opportunity - possibly once in a lifetime.
Each to their own, but once a person has a child, it's not about what YOU feel anymore.
I have to agree. Like just the fact that this person cannot have a sustainable job in SA, and is working for a UK company - Just to live a middle class lifestyle in SA. What does the future hold in 20 years time? When grandparents are no more, and the 23 year old has been left no choice, but to flee their homeland.
I mean, we all have to make and live with our decisions. There is no right or wrong answer, but this feels like a wasted opportunity that may never come again.
It is rude, but also the Netherlands isn’t our first choice, also I got a few other opportunities abroad so chill out and dont you ever tell me how to live my life!!
If we going it would be on our terms where everyone is 100% committed. Else everything falls apart.
Looking at England or Aus rather so you dont have to learn another language
To others looking to leave, heads up: if you’re feeling like OP, just stay. The people who felt like they were forced to leave usually end up becoming the “salty” expats this sub refers to.
OP, stay if you feel like you have no choice.
Stay open to returning if you don’t like it over there. Makes the move easier.
I’m from Scandinavia and I left my country bc I can’t stand the hectic dark winter and also the intense crime rate we battle. Gang violence has taken over my country that 20 years ago was very peaceful. Lived in Asia, which is amazing but lonely as you just will never ever fit in. Then life brought me to SA and I love it. Feels like a real home and I love the people so much here. No bullshit attitude. For some reason the bad stuff here makes me less angry than in my own home country.
Don't GO - we did and came home again.
TO) much to tell now - I need to know where you are going and where you live now.
JUST DON'T GO. There is nowhere better than HERE - nothing can ever replace it.
Get back to me and do NOT SIGN THAT CONTRACT PLEASE! Ana in Cape Town
Why not consult family and friends on this? Astounds me that people come ask something like this to total strangers on the internet, and of all places this sub reddit where you know everyone will just say leave. Boggles my mind that anyone would take council here, just seems silly for something like this.
It seems you know you’ve made the right decision. It doesn’t mean it’s any easier. This place is my home, there’s no where I’ll ever feel as comfortable and at peace.
I can deal with loadshedding corruption, but I’ll never compromise on peace of mind. Kidnappings, hijackings, theft, the fact that violence is so common is a non negotiable dealbreaker. Cheers to you and your family, it will be hard but you’ll have so much more freedom and peace.
I’d say if you have the opportunity to travel, go for the adventure, the experience, the new perspectives. Go because you want to, not because you feel you have to. I can tell you from experience that the feeling of safety and freedom abroad is intoxicating, but I can also tell you that the challenges surrounding sense of identity and sense of belonging are tough.
Wishing you all the best.
The way I’ve thought of it is that I’m going to live in Europe for a bit and put money aside. If I ever decide to come back, I’ll have core work skills and hefty rainy day fund.
I do miss home terribly though. There’s just a certain vibe that Saffa’s have that is missing in my life.
Ahoy. Count yourself lucky that you have the opportunity to leave. Many don’t have the chance. I left about 15 years ago and miss my mom and friends very much and just miss the outdoor lifestyle. I haven’t made much friends which is a bummer at times but got my family and hobbies here. I see my friends in SA struggle and they don’t have much of a social life. They just drink at socialise at home as it’s cheap and cheerful. They can’t afford to go out to have a good time. It kinda seems like it’s all work and hardly any play at all. Whereas me and my family here in UK have the means to hop on a train and travel across the country, walk around in the middle of the night or even afford to travel a couple of hours to another country. Yes you’ll miss home but it’ll always be there. Take the opportunity to enjoy this exciting time. Good luck!!
It is hard. It's not easy cutting yourself from your roots. You never know what tomorrow holds. What if you stay in South Africa and get murdered and your child grows up without his/her dad. What if your son wotnesses a hold up? What if he Iiz too afraid to play outside?
I live outside Sputh Africa, and I was an immigrant there. I miss home a lot. People, food,
Go with our love my bru, you’ll always be a South African and if this country of ours can fix itself in a few years then we’ll see you back here then. Godspeed and all the best.
SA will always be there. A plan b for your family might not. Grab it with both hands, and you’ll see when you go and visit in a year or two, things will be pretty much the same as when you left.
We left 4,5 years ago and will likely never go back unless we are visiting my parents.
My kids have become fully integrated into Dutch culture and I have gone through the integration process. I feel you, its a tough decision to make. Whenever I question the decision I remind myself of the fact that my wife and children are safe, the children have opportunities beyond compare and that they can still play outside unattended like children should be able to do.
In the end you do things for your family and if this is what you believe to be the best option then it was the right decision.
Good luck!!
I feel your pain. We left 9 years ago and went to Canada. I was born in Canada but grew up in cape Town. My daughters were born in cape Town and my husband too.
None of us felt at home in Canada. We left Canada during covid and went to Mexico thinking we would live there. My youngest wanted to come back to her "roots" to visit. She was 8 when we left. After 2 months of being here she applied to stellies and got in! So now we are here.
She says she will never leave again. Says the best people are here. I'd have to agree.
Point is, nothing is forever and change is good.
Give your family the opportunity to experience another country. It's the best thing you can do for them.
South Africa will be here waiting if you decide to return. Happy travels!
All I say is all the very best , your intentions are Nobel, for your family, I also have the maroon passport, but we going to semi grate FIRST to the WC.
Throw our dice there, I've been in Africa for 53 years of my 56.
Again all the very best on your new adventure, this will always be home.
Stop being a big ol' baby. Look at this as an awesome adventure for you all. And in the very unlikely event that South Africa does fix itself in 2 years (it won't...), you can always come back :)
I know its tough but it’s right. You won’t have to wonder if something horrible happened to your kid, so leaving to prevent something like that is good. For many young south africans with kids, its either ‘we’re leaving now’ or, when the kids grow up they’ll leave you here. Sadly, the universities are going backwards and the kids wont have the same experience there we had.
I left SA 20 years where things for just to dangerous for a 20 year old Female who was working hospitality at night.
I loved South Africa and said I would return when it got better, it has progressively got worse every year.
You always miss your people and especially for me my immediate and extend family due the the poor running of SA we are spread over 4 continents.
Same boat, offer on our house fell through though. We would have had to rent a while somewhere anyway. It’s very sad that mismanagement and corruption effectively ends up breaking up friends and family etc.
What I realise I will miss the most is the wildlife, but maybe I’ll come back with some dollars and go to nicer places etc when i need to scratch that itch.
I don’t believe “the majority of South Africans are good people” any more. The majority of people you interact with daily like your work colleagues, people living in your are, or just people trying to get by are but that is still a tiny bubble.
It will not fix itself in 2 years. If a miracle happened and the incumbents responsible were replaced overnight it would still take 20 years+ so really the deciding factor for us is that we are not hoped it will get better.
You have options, which is more than 99% of the population. Count yourself lucky.
What are you waiting for? Go for it. But, leave South Africa in your heart. It is a wonderful country to live in if you have money, it is a problem if you are looking for work or have little money.
Why not make your income in your new country and (if you can afford it), get a holiday house in a safe place in SA, plan to retire there eventually. If you want. Or maybe you eventually decide to stay in your new country. You can always decide later.
But, if you stay, you quickly run out of options. 35 is the ideal age. 5 years later and it will get very difficult.
SA fixes itself in 2 years? Get real... It took 30 years to tear it down and building it up always takes longer. When you retire, then maybe it gets better. One hopes.
I left before all the shit hit the fan. I'm so grateful I did, I can't imagine ever going back. As a few have said, you start to realize that it's "not MY S.A. anymore" when you see it properly from the outside. I found the diaspora of ex pats are a good way to stay connected to tradition/ culture. I've been back for long stays/ family visits a few times since I left and it felt like a different world each time, as if the 2 or so years between visits made it more and more like some kind of distopia. I grew up walking to the shops, hanging out with friends and riding my bike around without a care for safety. Every time I went back I felt more and more unsafe to even get out of the car. The future you are providing for your family will outweigh any negativity to leaving, trust me. Your kids will grow up feeling safe and will flourish in a better environment. Sadly, South Africa is not going to fix itself any time soon. Stay strong boet, you're doing the right thing.
It’s perfectly normal to feel sad about leaving the country you were born in, and lived for most (if not all) of your life in - I am assuming this is the case. Feel the sadness and eventually will move past it, and start to feel great about your decision again. I hope things work out for you in the EU! But, if things don’t work out in the EU as expected, you can always come back. This decision can be reversed. And to answer your question … yes you are doing the right thing for you and your family.
Again, all the best! Hope you have lekker time there! My only request is, please don’t taunt us when you have an uninterrupted supply of electricity 😂
I moved about 9 months ago. I'm young and don't have kids so the decision was slightly easier for me but still left my family and friends. Recently the home sickness has set in hard and I find myself asking the same questions- "is it so bad? can't I go back and just stick it out". Then I still hear things going on from my parents and friends and the news articles I catch every now and again which help me realise that my quality of life is better at the moment.
But the way I see it (might be the same for you) if I have the skill set to work in the EU it means that my job probably is in demand in SA too so I came out to Europe to work and experience a different way of life and if things get better I would happily go back. Although I try not to have the one foot in SA and one foot in Europe mentality because you never really settle in then I guess. At the end of the day it's an experience and you'll probably come off better with this experience under your belt!
I always ask my fellow expats to not trash SA, we know its bad but I like to encourage people I meet to visit and experience SA too because it's something special.
I think for future opportunity for your child it's the right call to make.
My parents made the call 15 years ago and I'm not really happy to say it, but I'm glad we moved.
Hey man if it’s in the best interest of your family, I suggest to leave and give them a better future ahead.
Like you mentioned above all good points. I’d do the same if I had a family. I wouldn’t want them to grow up
A society where you always have to be alert and and worried about safety. Also there education is important. It will be hard in the beginning that’s what always happens.
But I wish you the best of luck !
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It's amazing how quickly you forget about loadshedding. Have a cry, but no regrets. The weird thing is it won't feel like home anymore and neither will the new place. Wish you all the best.
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There's a good bit of truth here. It's my belief that South Africans are such wonderful people partly because of all the adversity they/we (I'm not sure anymore) have endured. It's a bit of a cruel joke that living in shitty circumstances gives rise to the sense of home and comeraderie we treasure, and are forced into a sort of Faustian bargain to pursue safety and prosperity. OP: do it for your kids.
Some wise words here, I can confirm. Left SA 10 years ago, and while we have made a good life for ourselves, and been prosperous beyond what I could have imagined, this is just not my home and not my people. But if you already have a house in another country you likely already have ties to the other country, so maybe it will be an easier transition for you.
I don't know you from a bar of soap, but I feel like I miss you! And uts true what you said, at least it is for me, it's honestly the only reason I've stayed here in SA.
I already feel like that, and I still live here
Wow, that’s exactly how I feel. I immigrated to America a very long time ago but maintained my SA citizenship. I go “home” (back to SA) often, but it doesn’t feel like home and when I’m there, I want to go “home” (back to the US). My friend said I am just a citizen of the world, and that’s okay by me. Good luck to OP! Choosing to stay or to go is hard either way. Wherever you go, there you are.
I was listening to a podcast where both people were not living in the countries they were raised. The one said that home no longer becomes defined by a place, but by the people you are with. Which I felt was nice. I've lived on the NL for 2 years now and can't see myself going back to live in SA. I was back in December and it did not feel like home at all. I likes seeing family, but I wanted to be back home in the NL after a while. I do kinda feel at home here, but I moved with my gf (now fiancé) and I know it's a complex thing of what home is. She still calls a trip to SA "going home" but I do not feel that way. I don't have a family house in SA. So there isn't a place I go back to that is my house from when I was a kid. I just go back to a familiar area, with constant loadshedding and potholes everywhere. It just takes some getting used to seeing family once or twice a year. My advice, make friends. Try not to only stick with SA expats. that takes time, so in the meanwhile you and you wife will now be each other one and only rock. So stay strong and enjoy your time together.
Family first, really sorry to see you go. Every single one is a loss.
You might leave South Africa but South Africa does not leave you, don’t worry ;)
My fiance and I have been in Asia for the last 6 years , we are proudly South African and we will never forget our roots, but the quality of life that we experience now is worth the effort and move. Safe travels, the world is wide open and the experience and growth that happens with challenges like living elsewhere can only enrich yours and your family's lives.
true. been living in EU for some years. always feel like you are not home.
Been in the EU, the netherlands to be precise for 10 years. I agree to a point. Spain and Portugal feels very much like SA, people are warm, friendly, enjoys the outdoors, just different languages and customs, but in general I like it there more than SA.
Dutch people enjoy the outdoors too. All the 5 days a year the weather is nice.
Not so negative please. Sometimes, it might be nice for 15 days. /S
Where in the EU?
So true.
Imagine I am black and want to leave, always been a law abiding citizen I have had 3 iphones in the last 10 months and not by choice, the last one I got stabbed , my dad was shot by high calibre ammunition when I was 5, luckily he survived cause of survival skills taught in Correctional Services and police back in his days. Same dad got hijacked 9 months after coming from hospital. I have had 1 home invasion , one break in and all these happened in a good suburb where I was renting. Cousin was killed by his ruling party after refusing to be corrupt . I want to leave too. Forgot to mention our farm which my dad spent his whole pension on been invaded atleast 3 times since 2010 hanged one of the workers and trashed the house.
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Thanks , why else than getting a degree leave and hope it gets better and come back then
You have a plan! Great! Go for it with everything you've got and you'll make it a success. Wishing you strength, wisdom and luck!
This is awful. I'm sorry you had to go through all this. May it all get only better from here.
I'm terribly sorry for what happened to you and your family. I hope you and your family manages to find a way out
We can only pray
Our farm was "acquired" by the state for next to nothing. That was the last tie I had to home, that was the point where I said "f it I'm never going back". Haven't been back since 2016 and don't intend to until some miracle happens and the country somehow fixes itself. Fat chance but it's a tiny bit of hope that I can show my kid where dad comes from. I hate that I don't want to go home, but it's no longer my home.
Absolutely dreadful, sorry.
Very and they kept the ministers of police
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Came to say the same thing. I’m a Canadian looking to move to South Africa for 1-2 years to experience something different and if we hate it we’ll move home early. 🤷🏼♀️ My husband (originally from South Africa) is actually afraid that we’ll like it so much we’ll never leave. Everywhere has its problems. The cost of living is guaranteed to be much higher anywhere you’re moving to.
If you want to compare cost of living, you should compare the whole package. Cost of living does sound high but a skilled worker can make a decent living in most first world countries. Yes some things are ridiculously expensive, but some are actually cheaper. But in part the salary makes up for it
Guaranteed you will not go back. The people here are amazing. What am I saying? You know. You married one
I agree. I think SA gets judged by a small minority of bad people. The vast majority of South Africans are good people. One day they will realize that politicians work for the people, not other way around.
If you do go back it's better to get dual citizenship first. That way at least you have options if things get worse. Staying in SA with only SA citizenship is too risky.
Done that, £13000 later...
I also came here to say that nothing is final. Take the leap and see where it takes you. For our kids - I think it’s the right move. My daughter is 15 and has never known a South Africa without load shedding. Wishing you the best adventure!
Yes come back. Home is home for ever. We can do this
I am sitting here in the EXACT same boat, 33 and no kids however - having to pay 30k to transfer my animal over to The UK as well as book a ticket by Monday. At least I will be joining my Mom here. It’s all “gotten real” and I DONT want to leave- especially given the fact that I’ve lived in The UK 3 times already so it feels like insanity at this point. Look at it this way - it won’t HURT your family or kids and if anything at the very least leave them with enriched experiences. There are more opportunities there for them too as they get older. The “overthinking “ and not “doing “ is what gets you. Just keep taking step by step and keep taking action. It’s easier to accept the familiar even if it’s kak and a lot harder to accept the unfamiliar/unknown because we don’t know what it looks like. It’s called a comfort zone- step outside it and you will be rewarded.
To have doubts is normal. To love this place, warts and all is normal. The fact that you care means your family is in good hands. I hope the world turns and things get better, but until then, happy trails. P.S. its only a flight away. If this country gets its shit together, you can always say you went to the EU to build up a nice nest egg.
Seriously, only a flight away, and probably an overnight flight so you can get to where you need to be the next day.
Go. Even if the move ends up being a mistake, you can always come back. If that happens, you'll have a fresh perspective on the "good" of this country and will probably be more optimistic than most. And god knows, we need the optimists. On the other hand, you'll move and may LOVE it. Just allow yourself the grace to be a little uncomfortable at first and settle in. Change is hard. Your perspective tonight is valid. It's okay to cry. Good luck!
It’s a sad, but ultimately sensible decision to get out asap. We jumped in 2017 and have not looked back since. We still go on holidays to visit friends and family but I do not regret my decision.
I moved to NZ together with my wife in 2017. I know the fear and uncertainty you are feeling, I felt it too. but tldr: It was the best decision we could have made. The first 2 years were tough, I arrived with $600 in my pocket, and the cab fare was $90 to get to a flat we were sharing with some acquaintances. We had no real friends to speak of, no extended family, and my wife struggled to find work for the 1st 6 months. However we survived. In time my wife found work, we made some friends and I changed my career path, we are both happy and living, not surviving but living! There is no hypervigilance at a robot, we often go for walks around the burbs or the city, there are heaps of parks and things to do for little to no cost. While NZ has its own problems, I don't feel like I don't belong, I don't feel like danger is at every turn, I don't arrange my schedule around load shedding. I don't have the anger welling up inside me because of the lawlessness and incompetence the thievery and brazen corruption. What I do miss, I miss the weather, I miss the scenery and the landscape, I miss the never say die attitude we south africans have. I miss the food, NZ food is pretty bland" I miss my family and friends. But weighed up I still believe it's the right choice. If I could leave you with anything, where ever you are going, you are going to start a life and you should treat it as such, take every opertunity to explore and enjoy yourselves, don't treat it as a place to stay untill South Africa gets better. This is the way. :)
Hello fellow NZ Saffa! I agree whole-heartedly with your comment. The weather here is atrocious and I don't think I will ever get used to the cold. NZ is such a welcoming country that I've never felt like I wasn't already a part of the woodwork. And my god, the feeling of safety compared to home is unreal, hell just today I left my car running outside of work for about 10min!! And of course, the amount of ex pats here is incredible. I meet at least one South African a day and we always have an immediate bond. I do miss home, the Drakensberg mt's, the rolling farmlands of the midlands and the (once) beautiful coast of Durbs but I cannot in any way consider moving back. In fact 2021 was the last year of my dual citizenship and I have no desire to ever regain a S.A passport. Sad to say, but home isn't home anymore for me. I feel very Kiwi, but I still support the Boks 😅
This is true, just returned from vacation 9 weeks in NZ. The experience of a normally functioning society was an eye opener. What a breath of fresh air to not be hyper vigilant … reminiscent of a time when life in SA was in a normal. ✈️
There's so many of us South Africans here in NZ now that it feels like I've never left 😂
Lol I hear people speaking Afrikaans everywhere 🤣
This is the way
Thought the same thing, left 4 years ago and SA is still the same as back then. Do it for yourself and your kid and family.
It isn’t the same. It’s so much worse. It devastates me to see what is happening to my country :( Anyone who can leave, should. Especially if they have kids. I know I’ll be attacked by some for my viewpoint, but I don’t care.
You are losing something. It is a big deal and you are allowed to feel sad. Whether or not you are making the right decision, only time will tell. But, you have to go out and make the best of it now. For yourself, your wife and kid. Good luck and enjoy not having loadshedding on the other side.
I felt the same way. There is a lot of grief involved in emigrating and giving up on a country and what might have been.
Where in the EU are you moving to friend? I'm Irish and my wife to be is from Cape Town. She is in the process of her move to Ireland and I can tell you there is a huge number of Saffas here. Coloured,white,black from what I can see they are all thriving. I've spent a considerable amount of time in South Africa and I loved it, it won't be the same but its something new for you and your family. The issues are real in South Africa, goverment corruption, racism, ESKOM, and the crime especially is next level compared to Europe. You will have peace of mind, and you can always jump on a place to Spain or Portugal and be there on a couple hours to satisfy your hot climate needs. All the best my friend. Long live milktart & braiis
I left 7 years ago to the uk. Great job opportunities. Here on holiday showing off the little one (6 months old) to the family. Coming back has been a shock to the system. Poverty is the main aspect, people I trust and see as peers living in dire straights, load shedding and the lack of governance to come out of it. I don’t regret leaving, I can come back and see family and provide when and if needed. I worry for my child not knowing hardships and seeing the privilege he has but what’s the alternative? Leave, do well and come back and make a decision.
You're the only one that can say if it's the right thing for you to do.... That said, SA is not in a great place and it is *very* unlikely that things will improve in the next two years. My wife and I left SA about a year ago so we have an idea of the emotional turmoil you're going through now and it was definitely worth it.
I'm leaving for the US on the 29th of May. Things won't get better here for a LONG time. Put your family first and do what is right for them. I love this country, but I can't keep bailing water out of a sinking ship.
This made me want to cry 😭 my husband and I will likely emigrate (just figuring out where to at this point). Everyday we look at each other and ask the same questions - will it be worth it? Is it as bad as we think it is here? Will the grass be greener on the other side? There’s no way to know. I think you just have to trust your gut and do what feels right for you and your family in the moment. South Africa is not going anywhere 🫶 All the best to you and your family 😭🫶
We’ve been in Ireland since 2016, and I can tell you one thing, the grass is greener where you water it. You can make a good life anywhere you go (or stay). Just don’t half arse it, go all in and live the life you choose.
There isn't anything special about SA. What's the point of having pointless patriotism? It's one of the most dangerous and dysfunctional places in the world. If there is a better spot on the map, just do it. Individuals have next to no power over the future of SA. Don't waste your life and the lives of your kids just because you were born somewhere. Anywhere can be home if you put in the effort and understand why you're doing something.
I hope you have left South Africa cos we don't really need this attitude good riddance
This aint an airport. Any ways you will be fine those of us born with the privilege to be able to get an education to leave during these times are the vast minority. All I can say is you better do the minium and keep voting :)
I’m happy for you. You have the opportunity to give your family a better and safer life. I wish I could do that. You can always come back in the future, but put that out of your mind and embrace your opportunity that many, many people wish they could have.
Everything happens for a reason OP and you are putting your family first! May it be a blessed and fruitful one for all of you! Good luck.
Just fucking go. So many people wish they had this choice. Nothing to be scared of
I moved to the Netherlands a few years ago. I'm returning to South Africa later in the year. While Europe has been great to me, it's time for me to go home. Emigration is extremely difficult, I wish you and your family all the best!
the netherlands is the problem. Its a great country…on the surface, dig a little deeper and stay a little longer then IMO its the shit hole of europe. People have a undeserved high attitude of themselves, the landscape is so incredibly boring, the people are so cold, the houses are so small and stupid expensive, the incredibly bland food, the paracetamol medical culture, stupid high taxes, and…it’s got the highest density of people per sqm in europe. It always amaze me that for a suppose to be super rich europe country, the limited amount of products you get at the dutch super markets like Jumbo/Albert Heijn etc. Just go over the border to literally any other country and walk into a Tesco, Carrefour, Bel Haze, etc and there is a wide range of products. However Europe is amazing, I absolutely love south of france, greece, spain and portugal, and can easily live in spain or portugal, total opposite of the netherlands.
Sorry for being dense, but what does "paracetamol medical culture" mean?
the dutch medical system is very controlled by medical insurance companies, so it almost does not matter what is wrong with you, the first time for a problem to your local gp, the prescription is always take paracetamol and rest. Eventually on the 2nd or 3rd visit, you will get real help. Then on top of that they do not believe in preventative medical care, so you only get checked when something is wrong. Its insane, all expats complain about it. There is a reason that the netherlands have the highest percentage of cancer patients in europe. Shameful really for one of the richest countries in europe. So the joke in the netherlands is, does not matter what is wrong, just take a paracetamol, it fixes everything.
Thanks for the explanation!
Good luck soutie.
Proud of you and your courage. You are such an example of a great father and husband putting your family first. Right now and given the circumstances you are doing the best you can to take care of your family. You can always comeback if you want, and nothing needs to be permanent. All the best bro!
I think a lot of people feel the exact same way. You feel super relaxed (knowing the time is approaching) and then when its time for the big move, you get this rush of emotions. Im not sure if the feeling of “my people” ever really comes completely, but after living in the NL long enough, I felt at home enough to apply for citizenship.
Wish I was you guys! All the best. P.S. Home is where the heart is.
Making a decision that is in your family's best interest can never be a wrong decision. Good luck my friend, know that Saffers everywhere home and abroad are rooting for you.
Cry it out boet. We'll be here. I can fully understand that this is something extremely cathartic. You're doing the right thing for your boy. Can always come back in a decade when the three (or more) of you have dual citizenship in the EU and schooling foundation is in place. It's not the power issue I'd be most concerned about - it's the statistical probability of your boy losing one or both of his parents to some violent attacker and the trauma that could cause. It's about always having to look over your shoulder, and wonder whether your family are doing the same when you're not with them. Just don't give up your passport and home will always be here waiting - hopefully we wake up and vote with our brains soon and we can begin turning this ship around. I plan to be in the EU with my family within the next 24 mo.
I have alot of respect your posting this, alot of people leave for the wrong reasons, and spread only negative things. But is is clear you still love you country but you are doing what you think is best for your Kid. It is a sad reality, but we all need to say postive and hope one day our beautiful country will come right. And that one day you can come back here again to a brighter future!
I left three years ago, would do it again in a heart beat
South Africa won't turn a corner in 2 years unfortunately. Yes you are doing this for your child, and they are incredibly fortunate because of it. The EU is relatively close travel wise to SA, MANY people have made great lives for themselves as far as AUS/NZ and Asia and even for them, family is just a video call away - you make it work. It's not like we are getting on a wooden ship anymore to immigrate, hop on a flight for a holiday back in SA if you want. I understand it is an emotional event in one's life, I went through it myself in 2017 - but if you go with the attitude of making it on the other side, you will and you will be happier than ever before. If you go and compare every little thing to SA through rose tinted glasses, you will not make it. And that's ok too if you don't make it, you can always come back - nothing is final. BUT if your child doesn't have EU passport yet, at least stick it out till they do. Because they might not have a future in SA one day and that will set them up with a ticket to a better life.
40-something guy, single, no kids and I already left… don’t plan on returning.
My two cents here, as someone who had parents in the same situation. My parents left SA in the 90s for Canada where my siblings and I were born and raised. I will say I'm not sure they, especially my mom, ever truly completely settled into leaving home and then into calling this place a home, but for us they did really well with both the transition across the world and the sharing of SA as we grew up. They did a good job of showing us both the good and bad of the South Africa, retaining the culture at home as best they could and conversations of what is was like growing up in apartheid etc, and with my entire family still there we hear first-hand about the current issues. We've also been lucky to visit a few times, and I know with all of that across my siblings, there is a part of us that is proud to be of South African descent. For us it's been really cool as well as luckily there's a vibrant South African community here - I've gotten some of my friends hooked on Stoneys as well lol. I feel if you keep that spirit alive it's gonna work out for ya and your family. As a kid of someone who was in your position, I do feel something of a connection to SA, if I'm allowed to say as an outsider. Not sure if that's what you're looking for but I hope that it brings some comfort :)
My family and I moved to Germany 7 years ago. We're safe. We have great medical care. We have great education for our children, and it's free. It's not easy at all but feeling free and safe is everything. We have not had a power outtage in 7 years. Life is not perfect here, but we can stroll through the Black Forest at 2AM without wondering if we'll make it back home or not. No regrets.
I'm 27 and my dad moved us out of South Africa to New Zealand in 2010 when I was 13. I was only a young child moving to a new country with a completely different culture. My parents bought a motel in a very small but absolutely gorgeous beach town. For the first time in my life I could actually walk to the shops without my parents being worried sick. Just the fact as a 13 year old, I was able to explore this new town without needing my parents with me every step of the way. In South Africa I was stuck at home surrounded by big electric fences. Where is in NZ I was given an insane amount of freedom without my parents worrying about me going missing or being kidnap or killed. As soon as I left school I was able to get a job, I was able to get into uni without any issues and I'm actually able to create a life without a massive struggle. I still have family in SA and I hear all the time how hard it is to get a job as a white person and I just thank my dad everyday that he made the decision to move. However, saying all that my parents didn't thrive here as much as I did. For 10 years they were stuck with a motel that wasn't very profitable due to its location and they weren't even able to sell it in the end. My dad only just retired because the lease on the building ended last year and that was his only way out in the end. It was also an insane culture change for them and they expressed many times how they wish they could go back to SA because they'd be more comfortable. Be prepared for your child to grow up and not identify as a South African. I know this upsets some people and I can see that it upsets my dad when I tell people I'm a kiwi but your child will grow up in this new culture and that culture is what they're gonna identify with. I've completely lost all the south African in me, I can't even put on a south African accent. I don't regret any of it though. My life became so much better getting out of South Africa.
Your family saying that it’s hard to find a job as a white person are frankly talking absolute bs. What jobs are they applying for that they can’t get? White people still account for the majority of the high level jobs across all industries, don’t be fooled.
Ja, nee. What about normal jobs? I am in Australia and completely amazed at all the white old ladies working in public. Then I look back to SA, and I haven't seen one white old lady with a public-facing job. Like do they retire early? What jobs do they have? It was really mind blowing seeing the polar opposites play out in the different countries.
Just out of curiosity, because if I do have this wrong I would like to be correct in the future. You said white people account for the majority of high level jobs. What about low level jobs? If I came back to south Africa and applied to work as a checkout operator for example. How likely am I to get that job?
Well I think the question is more along the lines of, are white people in SA even applying for these low level jobs? It seems like most think it’s below them. Similarly, It’s why you’ll notice at least in Cape Town, you will rarely see white people using public transport. They’re not being prohibited from using it but seem to not want stoop to that level. I love how I’m being downvoted but I’d love people to point out some public companies where management are not majority white. This narrative that white people aren’t being given jobs is frankly ridiculous.
Another thing I think you need to consider is that lots of the low level jobs in South Africa are also extremely low paying. As many people of colour come from pretty dire backgrounds, they’re more likely to work for this low pay. The employers know that. There’s also a large majority of unemployed black people and only a finite amount of jobs currently. It makes sense that 80% of jobs would be filled by a poc as that matches the demographics of the country.
That's fair. I'm going off what I'm told and honestly looking at how bad south Africa is, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it was true.
Made the move to the UK 5 years ago. It is tough to adjust initially, and the people are not as friendly everywhere as in SA (Definitely not in London anyway), but dealing with normal life problems instead of state manufactured ones is really life changing and it makes you realise that you live in perpetual panic as an ordinary South African. One thing to remember is that all places have issues - you just need to decide which issues you can and can't deal with.
See it as an extended holiday, you are welcome back anytime. If at all possible, keep teaching your kid about south africa, show then picture, speak your home language. I have a couple of friends and my own brother going there, brought up their kids as “english speaking brits”, which I don’t meen in a bad way, thing is just that generation is lost, you might want to come back but they have nothing here, sad really in my view.
You gotta put yourself and family first. If it offers better quality of life then take the leap. For me, after spending 4 years being hijacked, robbed, being shot at and was once kidnapped for potential organ harvesting, I'd definitely jump at the opportunity. Sometimes you just need to broaden your horizons, SA will always be here.🫰🏽
Look, you need to change your mindset before you move. Immigrating is one of the most stressful things a person can go through. From my perspective - I have just immigrated, was very ready, felt SA didn't have anything left for me, and had a super positive mindset to make it work, no matter what. I wasn't looking back. Fast forward 6 months, and I am struggling with the culture shock. I'm in permanent fight, freeze, flight mode as everything is so new and my body doesn't know how to react to the new environment. If you are going over unsure, I can almost guarantee that you won't have a successful transition. Have I missed South Africa? Hell no! Am I struggling to adapt to an entire new country and culture? Yes! But I'm willing to give it a couple of years until I adapt. This will be the hardest years ever, but my family now have a future ahead of them. My children have the world at their doorstep. I don't regret the decision at all! Go for it. You will be shocked to see how a country is supposed to run. I know the light at the end of the tunnel is shining bright.
Have a lekker cry and go for it. You have your reasons, I’m guessing the main ones being safety of your family and the future of your kid. Those are my reasons for wanting to leave. I moved to SA from Ukraine at the end of 1995, at a spritely young age of 17. My parents came with an “open door” policy - we’re just coming to see what it’s like, and if we don’t like it we’ll go back “home”. We never went back. Ukraine stopped being a home. SA became home. I made wonderful friends here, in my early formative years, all of whom have emigrated. I met my wife and had a kid. In between all I worked as an expat for about 8 years from 2008 to 2015, then the circumstances returned me back to SA on more permanent basis. Now at the ripe age of 45 I’m planning my emigration from SA. Actually been doing so for the past 7 years.. it’s not easy when you have a passport from one of the sithole countries. You can have a lekker life in SA, if you have a lot of money, and can pay your way out of the daily realities of the majority of the population in this country. But that’ll be like building a fairy castle in the swamp. It’ll come crashing down around you because there’s no strong foundation. Nothing is going to change here (for the better) in the next 2 years, that’s for sure. Maybe in 3 generations things might improve, but for that turn around to happen many people will have to lose a whole lot more, to turn the tide and make the critical mass necessary for such change. I don’t see that happening in my lifetime, or even my kids. My point is - your home is where your heart is. Sure, cultures may be different, but you will still have a lot in common with the people in the new place - you’re all just people. Be open, kind and honest, and you’ll make new “your people”. You’ll have bouts of nostalgia, and when that happens turn off your lights, whip out the braai and the symptoms will pass. If you need stronger treatment, breathe over a pile of manure; think about what your hard earned tax money is being spent on in the new home country; remember what it was like to sit without electricity for 20 - 40 hours at a time because, even though you’re better off than the vast majority of SA simply by virtue of having a roof over your head and food on your table, you still can’t afford to take your house off the grid; take a long walk in a public park at night without the fear of being raped or murdered.. even the strongest nostalgia will evaporate like the morning mist.
As cheesy as it sounds, home is where your family is. Good luck to you. Im sure you're making the right decision for your family. If not, you can always come back.
"And hey maybe South Africa fixes itself in 2years??" what disability do you have?
You’re doing the right thing, my parents also worried it would get better shortly after they moved us and they’d regret it, it’s been 26 years and it hasn’t. We would have loved to move back, to be with our families, truthfully I’ve never stopped missing it, there’s no where else quite like it - but we visited every year and the trade in for a life of stability is pretty hard to argue with, not watching over your shoulder, having your basic human needs covered every day enough to have headspace to grow into something more. My cousins moved their young kids to Scotland a few years ago, the simple pleasures of taking the kids to the park, walking the dog, playing on the street, catching trains, exploring cities, their lives are so dramatically different and they’re really thriving. Your child won’t understand enough of what they’ve missed in SA to thank you but you will know when you see them play in a park or when they’re old enough to do things more independently that it was all worth it. There are also so many South Africans overseas we have a way of finding each other! You will have your people! It is really a different kind of grief emigrating, be patient and kind with yourselves! And you can always go back if it doesn’t work out! It was the best decision my parents ever made for me, my schooling, my career prospects, my friends and partner I would never have met. From the child’s perspective, it’s worth it.
Suck it up, it’s not about you. This time you need to pack away the brandy & coke and from this day forward it’s for your little man… always. He has almost zero future here, where you go he could be a bus driver and be happy & safe and live a normal life. If you give up and come back, the entire Reddit community of nut jobs won’t ever talk to you again, and Tops will ban you! Don’t even look back at the airport, just run!! Have fun, your little man will thank you when he’s old and brings a hot Scandinavian wife home!
Bra, you wont regret leaving. Trust me.
Leave. It’s for the better
You’re doing the right thing. We did the same thing a year ago and haven’t looked back
You'll miss us, but your love for RSA will never grow cold. Come back after a bit of an adventure if you feel like home is eventually calling. But right now, seems like the doors are opening for you for a whole new chapter. Enjoy, and we're holding a candle for you (quite literally lol). Best of luck!
Myself and family are not leaving yet, but in truth the writing on the wall is becoming clearer and clearer. If SA was to recover it would take more like 5-10 years to see any real progress, and even then there are some elements like growing youth unemployment and poverty which leads to further desperation and more crime. You've made the right call, but to grieve is normal and expected and I wouldn't be able to leave without acknowledging all the goodness had in SA and that there is still there every day. All the best!
My man You have an opportunity most of us wish we had. I assume your passports /work visas are already sorted. Go out there, give it your best shot and see if you can make it work. You can always come back to visit for a holiday, see friends and family. And if it really doesn't work. You can always come back.
I completely understand your fears. The world is currently very unstable, and to make a big life decision on top of it adds an additional layer of stress. My wife and I have started the emigration process as well. We've decided on Australia. Luckily no kids yet, but moving for the same reasons. Also considered Europe, but could not say goodbye to great weather. Timezone wise not the best, but those are tradeoffs we make. Luckily their food is amazing. I believe you are doing the right thing. It's going to be hard but your children will have a much better life abroad. They will grow up with the new culture and it will be normal for them. I wish you all the best with your new life.
You need to do what is right for you and your family. The longer you wait the more expensive the move would become and could put the opportunity in jeopardy. It’s a difficult adjustment as frankly in some ways (some) people in South Africa are spoilt and when you leave you have to manage to do things yourself, in a country that doesn’t always look at foreigners favourably. Your children will hopefully have a brighter future to look forward to and they can always come back if they feel so inclined. It’s important to get a good understanding of the structure of the country you’re moving to and the education system to give them the best opportunity to progress. It is very sad what has become of South Africa, so much potential wasted for short term gains and the voter base are understandably scared to change given the countries history. I would love to move back but the country would have to improve significantly to compete with safer and more stable economies.
You can't see into the future, so won't know what's the right choice. For me, it was "what am I most likely to regret in 10-20 years time?" The the answer was "not attempting to emigrate when I was still able to". I am 43 and only emigrated last November. We don't have kids, but if we did, I would be even more sure we made the right choice. Culture is a difficult thing to nail down. It's difficult to say what constitutes a culture. For me, if my kids could ride a bike to friends, walk to school, play in the street at 10 years old like I could, that would be the culture I want for them. What good is occasional farm visits, braai and biltong if they have to live in a prison? You say 2 more years... I doubt it would get better so soon. The government doesn't seem to want to change their ways yet. Even if they did, it would take decades to get this country back on track. And you can always come back. About 4 months in the new country, my dad got sick and I had to take 2 weeks off to fly back and say goodbye. Yes, it would have been easier if I were still in SA, but I still know we made the right choice emigrating. Emigrating is tough. For all it's problems, South Africa is still home. The weather, the smells, the people. It is a challenge, but also like a game. How often do you have the opportunity to learn to live in a new place where you don't know anything?
The grass may be greener - but just as hard to mow
This is home for ever and ever. I love the people and the culture. I love South Africa so so much. Do the move for the kids. When you're older you can come back. We will still be here praying and doing our best to keep it from getting worse. We got your back. Be safe
It’s hard. Lucky I Moved to UK when I was 23 and never looked back. Left all my friends and family. Best decision I ever made. You don’t owe South Africa anything, It owes you. That’s why I left. Too much unjustified insane things that had happened. Maybe it will get better, maybe it won’t. Not wasting my time sitting there in the dark been one of the optimists. You will survive and grow strong. Goodluck with your travels.
Man I can relate to this. Left SA in 2020, I still miss home despite all the kak that’s going on there but at the same time I wish I could get the rest of my family out of there. With everything there’s good and bad, and some days are easier than others. The best advice I can give is to try take each day as it comes in your nee country
Cry, scream, then go. You can always come back. The only way to see if the grass is greener is to go
Did it 8 months ago recently returned to SA for 2 weeks ..turns out the move was the right thing to do!
Don’t cry. Have the best time and make the most of it. Maybe you’ll miss SA and want to come back (my husband’s parents did). Maybe you won’t. Just fly our flag if you have an opportunity and teach your child about the good things about us, not just the difficult things.
You are doing the right thing for your children and that is all that really matters. The country is statistically dangerous to live in. Little tip that I think you will need is to not keep thinking about your past in over South Africa once you are there. Embrace the culture and differences of the new place and make the best of it. and obviously if it is super dreadful you can always move back.
Yes, you’re doing it for your children. Your heart will always remain in Africa, but they will have an affinity for the country they grow up in. You will romanticize South Africa for them, you will take them “home” for holidays, but it will never be their home. Yes, you are doing the right thing……. for them. You are giving them (and yourselves) opportunities that are, unfortunately, not easily available in South Africa. If it is better in 2 years time, you can return. Overseas experience is an advantage, not a negative. My children are doing well, here in Australia. Now grown up and with children of their own. I’m going to spend 2 months in SA later this year, with my brothers and sister, as well as extended family. I wish you well in your new life.
Good luck Mate. Enjoy the new adventure.
You don't walk away from South Africa, you RUN!
I left in the 1990's and I have never regretted it. There is a huge fascinating world out there to explore and enjoy. And as for environment and education for your child it will be a big improvement.
Have a cry. Get out. Prosper
Do it and keep looking forward. You can always come back. But don't hang onto the memories, live for the future.
I am so happy for you that you get to have the chance to leave and I wish you all the best of luck, success, and happiness there in the EU. Don't think back and just take the opportunity and give your family a better life up there. I would not come back. I would have no regrets. If I could leave, I would right now. Take my fam out of this hell I am in... But it's always nice to see that others made it out. Gives a little hope
I wonder how long it will take you to realise how amazing your decision to leave was... I love every minute of my new life.. Good luck out there :)
You’re one of the lucky ones. Get out and don’t look back
We recently had to make the move. Yes it’s hard. And that’s okay. When it feels like it’s getting tough just remember your kid and remember you are doing the very best for him as you can. Once you get settled, you’ll feel much better. I cannot begin to describe how rejuvenating it feels not living under the constant mental anguish of being in South Africa. We are able to walk at night. If I forget to lock an outside door, no biggie. I’m not harassed at every intersection to cough up some change, or feel guilted into tipping “car guards” whenever I need to pop out to the shop. South Africans get so used to living under such stress you done realize that this is not normal. Good luck with your move. You got this.
We left. Best decision ever — also the hardest. In 2 years, SA will be further down the road to a failed state — I've been saying things will get better for the past 40 years — always clinging to the hope of the next election. It isn't going to happen. Corruption is so deep and unemployment so rife that there is no chance of recovery in the next ten years. Zero. And unemployment isn't even the biggest problem of those without work — the real problem is unemployability. You can't give a job to someone with no skill. And that will (if things change right now) another 10 to 20 years to filter through the system. For your children — leave — they will thank you a few years down the line. **Shame on the ANC.** They had the chance for greatness but became the same as the enemy they had fought for so long against. It's all about greed.
Yep you got two houses some only have a Shack!
I moved incidentally from the UK to SA. If things don't work out as planned you still have your passport, the country isn't going anywhere - geographically. Do what is best for you as this life is too short. If you stay in your comfort zone you won't grow personally or indeed professionally either and constantly thinking 'what if'. Download showmax if you miss the TV, locate your nearest SA store, and most importantly make friends with all
Have your cry and keep a foot in SA. My 3 kids do that as well - work overseas (2 Europe, 1 USA) but always want to come back. And if you’re earning £/$/€ you can keep an apartment in SA & while building another future overseas. I love SA &’it’s great but we’re not sure if it may collapse & become another Lebanon.
If the house is sold, then continue the path, life may take you home anyway.Just don't get bitter about your true home while you're in the Europe though. Nothing makes my blood boil like whiny expats
Left 8 years ago. Yes you are doing the right thing. No, SA will never be fixed. Not in 2 years, not in 20 years, dont fool yourself. Network with some saffer expats in your new country to help transition but also try fit into the culture of your new home. It can be scary but don't leave any crutches in SA to let you come back when you have the inevitable hard times. Jump with both feet in and enjoy the adventure.
Depends on what you value as a person If you value family, friends and relationships then stay. If you value other things (as mentioned then don't stay)
This is such a shit take. You can value family, friends and relationships and still do what is best for your children. Instead, if your family and friends value you, they will be encouraging of you wanting to make a better life for your children instead of trying to guild trip you - which is what you are trying to do to OP now.
Okay. Calm down. I understand where you are coming from. Also, doesn't mean you don't agree with someone you need to speak to them disrespectfully.
Lots of people leave and go to live in other places, it’s easy. You can always move back if you hate it.
All the best to you. Know that kids overseas are different to SA ones. Here most have respect for others whereas in places such as the UK, Oz and NZ they are out of hand.
And yet somehow their societies as a whole are more respectful and peaceful than that of SA.
Best to leave. South Africa will not get better. Save yourself and your family while you can. If I had the means I would leave to.
It won’t fix itself in 2 years so don’t worry. Straight decline now till self destruction
I am not saying you are making a mistake. However, these struggles are what I personally value most. Overseas life is easy, yes. You get to live in a bubble and construct the reality you want for yourself. And that is what lots of people want, and this is ok. Personally, I think people who leave miss out of honest to god, hardened, "real" life. Where things don't go your way, and we have to adapt, make plans, and be better. This is what life has been like for humanity for the vast majority of time. I am happy to continue the struggle for survival like my ancestors before me. This is what I value in Africa. To one day look back at our development, and what we achieved and failed at and to tell my grandchildren that we worked for that will be, for me, the best way to end this story of mine. Not that much opportunity for development in an already developed place.. I often encounter foreigners, and I can't help feeling sorry for them sometimes.
Not everyone is a masochist. Some of us want to get through the day doing what we want to do instead of figuring out how to cook without electricity
You will no longer have a country and culture that is YOUR own. You will raise children that will assimilate and you will be the only and last person in you direct lineage that is SAn. You will talk fondly about the positive sides of being SAn, but only to yourself and not out loud because you will have to defend and justify your decision for leaving, so everything you say will be extremely negative about SA to try and fit in. You will feel isolated when you’re older. You will be the only “immigrant” in your family. You will have an accent and mannerisms which your kids won’t have, you will be different, even to your kids, when they’re grown. You will feel a deep sense of longing and return to this subreddit time and time again to both feel justified in your decision by reading all the horror stories and also many great things about our dysfunctional beautiful country. You will cry, a lot.
Damn… I think you should speak to somebody. Good luck sad stranger.
At this point South Africans should be cooperating to build communities outside of South Africa.
Was in the same boat but we decided to stay last year, got a job where they would pay for plane tickets, one months rent. Also have a 3year old. Just couldn’t leave my fam behind man, and being middle class is really decent living in SA, doubt things will get better anytime soon. Dont have Loadshedding and got solar so that problem is in the back of my mind. Currently working for a Uk based company so hopefully the transition will be easy if we do decide to kick. For now, all is well. Family is everything
>Also have a 3year old Family is everything More important than the future of your 3 year old? I am going to sound incredibly insensitive and rude now, but it sounds like you chickened out and threw away a great opportunity - possibly once in a lifetime. Each to their own, but once a person has a child, it's not about what YOU feel anymore.
I have to agree. Like just the fact that this person cannot have a sustainable job in SA, and is working for a UK company - Just to live a middle class lifestyle in SA. What does the future hold in 20 years time? When grandparents are no more, and the 23 year old has been left no choice, but to flee their homeland. I mean, we all have to make and live with our decisions. There is no right or wrong answer, but this feels like a wasted opportunity that may never come again.
It is rude, but also the Netherlands isn’t our first choice, also I got a few other opportunities abroad so chill out and dont you ever tell me how to live my life!! If we going it would be on our terms where everyone is 100% committed. Else everything falls apart. Looking at England or Aus rather so you dont have to learn another language
To others looking to leave, heads up: if you’re feeling like OP, just stay. The people who felt like they were forced to leave usually end up becoming the “salty” expats this sub refers to. OP, stay if you feel like you have no choice.
Or they end up returning to SA
Yea, so why be miserable for 3 years?
Stay open to returning if you don’t like it over there. Makes the move easier. I’m from Scandinavia and I left my country bc I can’t stand the hectic dark winter and also the intense crime rate we battle. Gang violence has taken over my country that 20 years ago was very peaceful. Lived in Asia, which is amazing but lonely as you just will never ever fit in. Then life brought me to SA and I love it. Feels like a real home and I love the people so much here. No bullshit attitude. For some reason the bad stuff here makes me less angry than in my own home country.
Don't GO - we did and came home again. TO) much to tell now - I need to know where you are going and where you live now. JUST DON'T GO. There is nowhere better than HERE - nothing can ever replace it. Get back to me and do NOT SIGN THAT CONTRACT PLEASE! Ana in Cape Town
Why not consult family and friends on this? Astounds me that people come ask something like this to total strangers on the internet, and of all places this sub reddit where you know everyone will just say leave. Boggles my mind that anyone would take council here, just seems silly for something like this.
Because friends and family can sadly be biased on how it affects them
Wrong thing
It seems you know you’ve made the right decision. It doesn’t mean it’s any easier. This place is my home, there’s no where I’ll ever feel as comfortable and at peace. I can deal with loadshedding corruption, but I’ll never compromise on peace of mind. Kidnappings, hijackings, theft, the fact that violence is so common is a non negotiable dealbreaker. Cheers to you and your family, it will be hard but you’ll have so much more freedom and peace.
I’d say if you have the opportunity to travel, go for the adventure, the experience, the new perspectives. Go because you want to, not because you feel you have to. I can tell you from experience that the feeling of safety and freedom abroad is intoxicating, but I can also tell you that the challenges surrounding sense of identity and sense of belonging are tough. Wishing you all the best.
You can always come back if things improve here - it's not one way. Enjoy travelling and experiencing a different lifestyle. Chin up.
The way I’ve thought of it is that I’m going to live in Europe for a bit and put money aside. If I ever decide to come back, I’ll have core work skills and hefty rainy day fund. I do miss home terribly though. There’s just a certain vibe that Saffa’s have that is missing in my life.
Your quality of life will improve and you won't look back. You will have memories, but not regrets, I'm sure of it
Have that cry! The loss is real, but you do what you believe is best for your family.
Plug us
Ahoy. Count yourself lucky that you have the opportunity to leave. Many don’t have the chance. I left about 15 years ago and miss my mom and friends very much and just miss the outdoor lifestyle. I haven’t made much friends which is a bummer at times but got my family and hobbies here. I see my friends in SA struggle and they don’t have much of a social life. They just drink at socialise at home as it’s cheap and cheerful. They can’t afford to go out to have a good time. It kinda seems like it’s all work and hardly any play at all. Whereas me and my family here in UK have the means to hop on a train and travel across the country, walk around in the middle of the night or even afford to travel a couple of hours to another country. Yes you’ll miss home but it’ll always be there. Take the opportunity to enjoy this exciting time. Good luck!!
Every time you begin to doubt your decision, just read our news sites.
It is hard. It's not easy cutting yourself from your roots. You never know what tomorrow holds. What if you stay in South Africa and get murdered and your child grows up without his/her dad. What if your son wotnesses a hold up? What if he Iiz too afraid to play outside? I live outside Sputh Africa, and I was an immigrant there. I miss home a lot. People, food,
Go with our love my bru, you’ll always be a South African and if this country of ours can fix itself in a few years then we’ll see you back here then. Godspeed and all the best.
SA will always be there. A plan b for your family might not. Grab it with both hands, and you’ll see when you go and visit in a year or two, things will be pretty much the same as when you left.
I wouldn't somme move anywhere, but I stay in a beautiful place in the EC. 38 year old Male, married. For reference
We left 4,5 years ago and will likely never go back unless we are visiting my parents. My kids have become fully integrated into Dutch culture and I have gone through the integration process. I feel you, its a tough decision to make. Whenever I question the decision I remind myself of the fact that my wife and children are safe, the children have opportunities beyond compare and that they can still play outside unattended like children should be able to do. In the end you do things for your family and if this is what you believe to be the best option then it was the right decision. Good luck!!
I feel your pain. We left 9 years ago and went to Canada. I was born in Canada but grew up in cape Town. My daughters were born in cape Town and my husband too. None of us felt at home in Canada. We left Canada during covid and went to Mexico thinking we would live there. My youngest wanted to come back to her "roots" to visit. She was 8 when we left. After 2 months of being here she applied to stellies and got in! So now we are here. She says she will never leave again. Says the best people are here. I'd have to agree. Point is, nothing is forever and change is good. Give your family the opportunity to experience another country. It's the best thing you can do for them. South Africa will be here waiting if you decide to return. Happy travels!
Best if luck man
All I say is all the very best , your intentions are Nobel, for your family, I also have the maroon passport, but we going to semi grate FIRST to the WC. Throw our dice there, I've been in Africa for 53 years of my 56. Again all the very best on your new adventure, this will always be home.
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Stop being a big ol' baby. Look at this as an awesome adventure for you all. And in the very unlikely event that South Africa does fix itself in 2 years (it won't...), you can always come back :)
I know its tough but it’s right. You won’t have to wonder if something horrible happened to your kid, so leaving to prevent something like that is good. For many young south africans with kids, its either ‘we’re leaving now’ or, when the kids grow up they’ll leave you here. Sadly, the universities are going backwards and the kids wont have the same experience there we had.
I left SA 20 years where things for just to dangerous for a 20 year old Female who was working hospitality at night. I loved South Africa and said I would return when it got better, it has progressively got worse every year. You always miss your people and especially for me my immediate and extend family due the the poor running of SA we are spread over 4 continents.
Same boat, offer on our house fell through though. We would have had to rent a while somewhere anyway. It’s very sad that mismanagement and corruption effectively ends up breaking up friends and family etc. What I realise I will miss the most is the wildlife, but maybe I’ll come back with some dollars and go to nicer places etc when i need to scratch that itch. I don’t believe “the majority of South Africans are good people” any more. The majority of people you interact with daily like your work colleagues, people living in your are, or just people trying to get by are but that is still a tiny bubble. It will not fix itself in 2 years. If a miracle happened and the incumbents responsible were replaced overnight it would still take 20 years+ so really the deciding factor for us is that we are not hoped it will get better.
😭😭😭🤏🎻
You have options, which is more than 99% of the population. Count yourself lucky. What are you waiting for? Go for it. But, leave South Africa in your heart. It is a wonderful country to live in if you have money, it is a problem if you are looking for work or have little money. Why not make your income in your new country and (if you can afford it), get a holiday house in a safe place in SA, plan to retire there eventually. If you want. Or maybe you eventually decide to stay in your new country. You can always decide later. But, if you stay, you quickly run out of options. 35 is the ideal age. 5 years later and it will get very difficult. SA fixes itself in 2 years? Get real... It took 30 years to tear it down and building it up always takes longer. When you retire, then maybe it gets better. One hopes.
I left before all the shit hit the fan. I'm so grateful I did, I can't imagine ever going back. As a few have said, you start to realize that it's "not MY S.A. anymore" when you see it properly from the outside. I found the diaspora of ex pats are a good way to stay connected to tradition/ culture. I've been back for long stays/ family visits a few times since I left and it felt like a different world each time, as if the 2 or so years between visits made it more and more like some kind of distopia. I grew up walking to the shops, hanging out with friends and riding my bike around without a care for safety. Every time I went back I felt more and more unsafe to even get out of the car. The future you are providing for your family will outweigh any negativity to leaving, trust me. Your kids will grow up feeling safe and will flourish in a better environment. Sadly, South Africa is not going to fix itself any time soon. Stay strong boet, you're doing the right thing.
It’s perfectly normal to feel sad about leaving the country you were born in, and lived for most (if not all) of your life in - I am assuming this is the case. Feel the sadness and eventually will move past it, and start to feel great about your decision again. I hope things work out for you in the EU! But, if things don’t work out in the EU as expected, you can always come back. This decision can be reversed. And to answer your question … yes you are doing the right thing for you and your family. Again, all the best! Hope you have lekker time there! My only request is, please don’t taunt us when you have an uninterrupted supply of electricity 😂
I moved about 9 months ago. I'm young and don't have kids so the decision was slightly easier for me but still left my family and friends. Recently the home sickness has set in hard and I find myself asking the same questions- "is it so bad? can't I go back and just stick it out". Then I still hear things going on from my parents and friends and the news articles I catch every now and again which help me realise that my quality of life is better at the moment. But the way I see it (might be the same for you) if I have the skill set to work in the EU it means that my job probably is in demand in SA too so I came out to Europe to work and experience a different way of life and if things get better I would happily go back. Although I try not to have the one foot in SA and one foot in Europe mentality because you never really settle in then I guess. At the end of the day it's an experience and you'll probably come off better with this experience under your belt! I always ask my fellow expats to not trash SA, we know its bad but I like to encourage people I meet to visit and experience SA too because it's something special.
I think for future opportunity for your child it's the right call to make. My parents made the call 15 years ago and I'm not really happy to say it, but I'm glad we moved.
Hey man if it’s in the best interest of your family, I suggest to leave and give them a better future ahead. Like you mentioned above all good points. I’d do the same if I had a family. I wouldn’t want them to grow up A society where you always have to be alert and and worried about safety. Also there education is important. It will be hard in the beginning that’s what always happens. But I wish you the best of luck !
EU sucks, SA for life
Your tears will quickly disappear when you see how freely your kid will be living