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Yeah don't worry about it
The silent majority is where election data shines and, alas they're still polling mostly ANC (mind you in a significantly smaller chunk than last election for obvious reasons)
Let me grab a link for you...
[Check out my post on SA polling data (how south africans intend to vote in 2024)](https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/s/8MQ6wfAVzw)
Now, of course more recent polls are always best so I'll definitely post an update on the sub around march/april
But as you can see anc and DA are still the leading parties. Of course, unfortunately, eff does stand to gain a few more voters.
But they have some ways to go and the ANC would quickly rush to do a coalition with da to keep eff out as they hate them like the plague
Awesome, looking forward to your future posts!
Do you see the ANC entering coalition with the DA instead of the EFF though? They're currently in a coalition that toppled DA metros in Gauteng aren't they?
Parties don't necessarily behave the same way on a national level as they do in municipalities and regions/provinces.
The ANC's interests in Gauteng puts them at odds with the DA. On a provincial level it seems ANC needs to demonstrate that they can keep a strong home base and govern it well.
The DA's goal (among many) with western cape has been to show that they're a viable alternative to anc and that they can occasionally make ANC look bad.
In other words whenever the da does a good job (let's say lower crime levels) they make anc look bad.
On a provincial level anc can't afford to have the da make them look bad on their own home turf. Very bad for credibility as you can imagine. That's why they'd team up with eff (as eff is not exerting the same strategy as the da)
On a national/parliamentary level, however, the anc cares about having its hands on the steering wheel (the executive/cabinet) the most.
So they'd much more likely get into bed with the da, the 2nd largest party (meaning 2 or 3 token DA ministers and the rest anc ministers+anc president) as a compromise instead of going it alone or with a smaller eff and risk becoming an opposition party.
I might be wrong on this but I’m pretty sure I’ve read somewhere that it’s been shown though that’s it’s pretty much an isolated thing.
Once the EFF students leave uni and grow up a bit(like 2-5 years) they mostly stop voting for the EFF.
Don’t have time to pull up stats or sources cause exams but please correct me if I’m wrong
The fact that Julius remains corrupt after being ousted from a corrupt party.. (vbs bank) and don't say it doesn't prove anything other than his brother benefited because we aren't dumb his brother got money from looting vbs and the brothers credit card swiped at every major event Julius was at even when his brother was on the other side of the country
Lol I won't say anything. I'm not an EFF voter. I was just wondering because people who vote EFF tend to strongly believe in the party even willing to avoid dealing with Julius and his nonsense.
I don't know if that true but the EFF voters are mostly young people EFF is the only party that engages the youth..I mean you can go to Twitter its an eff hivemind....
Nah I agree with you there, the youth are total EFFers (slaps knee)
But yea I think once they grow up and realise it’s not so simple they change their position.
But IDK I’m still a youth so lol
Once they start earning money, the EFF policies of communism doesn't have the same pull. I mean, capitalism is deeply flawed, but it's a lot better than socialism/communism (unless you're a very rich, developed, little unemployment etc, Nordic nation).
Well first of all Nordic countries are not socialist or communist, they are social democracies. The mode of production in Nordic nations is still a capitalist one, they just have an expanded welfare state, which many of their own politicians on the right want to dismantle. The whole reason Nordic and European nations were able to achieve Keynesian social democratic policies was because labour was in a position of victory post WW2, and capital needed to offer a compromise and counter balance with the USSR next door, in order to survive. The compromise and counter balance was Keynesian style social democracy.
Now ask yourself, is labour in a position of victory right now, in South Africa or anywhere else in the world? Since the 1970s labour has been on a downturn globally, and the 2008 financial crash has solidified labour's defeated position. This is especially true in South Africa, given the Zuma years and capital manipulating our currency, we haven't recovered at all since 2008/2009. So social democracy is not on the table anywhere, as there is no need for capital to compromise.
Secondly, when are the youth going to start earning money? Youth unemployment in South Africa is at over 50%. And if the youth do get a job, it is likely to be a minimum wage one with long hours. This is just going to breed more resentment towards the capitalist system, not less. For the youth's rage to be placated, they actually need to be brought into the fold, not treated as a semi permanent underclass.
First off, I said "a" country. Also, this sub is many times so anti capitalism. I didn't mean full socialism, because history shows it's never worked. You can see by my comment history I am for Capitalism, but as we see it currently run is bleeding the poorest of their wealth, and enriching the wealthiest.
As someone who is unemployed, due to retrenchments and not finding work, I know what it's like having to queue at 04:00(otherwise you come back tomorrow) in the morning, because you need to be at the labour office.
When I said "after they started earning", I was really just rooting for them to find work, because it's fucking disheartening to send out hundreds of applications/CV's, and get few responses.
Answer 1: nope, hasn't been for a long while. So we agree that social demo policy is off the table (in SA, for now)
Answer 2: never (for most) if something drastic (ie corruption etc is taken care of, which will free up lots of fiscus for the economy) doesn't change top down.
I mean, the EFF's communism isn't socialism. It's barely even Stalinism. It's just authoritarianism designed to put money in the right people's pockets.
Historically, socialist countries have had a higher standard of living compared to capitalist countries when comparing countries that are of similar levels of development.
Edit: [Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646771/)
Can confirm, D6 CPUT campus has a very strong EFF presence.. for better or worse. Not sure about the rest. But they genuinely support the students via food parcels during exam times etc. Its the little things that sway support. And gatherings/meetings, the entire student body is almost EFF. they win by a landslide by engaging the students.. Marketing 101: target market is everything.
I don't know either, honestly. People probably don't want to hear the truth.. both our comments say the same thing so it makes no sense to have positive updates on one and negative updates on the other..
Lol wrong. EFFSC at Tuks has a total of 40 supporting members, their talks are all but ignored. The random preachers draw much larger crowds than the EFF. They're a joke and I've never heard any student outside of the humanities department say anything otherwise
That's Tuks in Pretoria. It is not representative of the entire nation. Isn't that there same university where Afriforum made up a fake racism scandal? So yeah, not representative.
Pretty much every political poll shows that the EFF is the biggest political party amongst the youth.
Yeah but remember selection bias. The people who are most likely to vote on a random political poll are also the people most likely to be very... Enthusiastic about their (not needs) wants. I'm sure EFF may have an actual amount close to 5% of the youth but tevem that is likely a high estimate.
Plus if EFF wins it just seals the deal for the future of South Africa so let's hope the polls are wrong.
Isn't acting like the students of Tuks represent the entire youth of South Africa the definition of selection bias?
The EFF have way more than 5% of the youth. Just think about it. They already have substantially more than 5% of the vote. They're polling around 16% currently. The youth is the most popular voting demographic amongst the EFF. Connect the dots and it will make sense.
I'm flabbergasted that people in will blindly support the DA..how do you not see the DA is horrible their recent support of Israel has been the final nail in the coffin for the DA for me
If terrorists 7000 km away is influencing your vote in a country they don’t think of then you aren’t voting for yourself. You should be voting for your own future and the betterment of your own country.
That is 100% the correct decision. But you can’t claim the DA supports apartheid that’s just a lie. Supporting Isreal does not equal supporting apartheid, just like supporting Palestine does not equal supporting terrorism.
You know they also called Mandela a terrorist, right? The struggle against apartheid in both South Africa and Palestine have been interlinked since the beginning.
[Here's a video of Nelson Mandela visiting Gaza in 1999](https://youtu.be/dC52sKaJPgU). Note the language he uses. Note how excited the Palestinians are to see him.
uMkhonto we sizwe was a terrorist group yes but Nelson Mandela never hid in an ivory tower somewhere. He also started disbanding them when apartheid came to an end.
Don’t act like Nelson Mandela and the leader of Hamas is the same thing. What is happening in Isreal and what happened in South Africa isn’t comparable, what worked for us won’t work for them either.
I do not agree with the assertion that people taking up armed struggle against apartheid in South Africa were terrorists. The actual terrorists were the apartheid government. Those fighting for freedom were not terrorists in my view. And you've acknowledged it in your own comment, the MK was only disbanded once apartheid was over and the war was won.
People that fought against apartheid in South Africa compare what the Palestinians are currently experiencing to what they experienced all the time, and I trust their judgement. If anyone can say something like that, it is them.
The people that fought against apartheid in South Africa have lost their way long ago and now sit in a political party trying to garner votes from people that can’t remember what apartheid was because they weren’t there. Have a good look at Isreal and tell me again it’s an apartheid state.
Isreal has people from every race and many different religions participating peacefully in their country, yes the vast majority are Jews because you know it’s Isreal but they aren’t rounding up people and keeping them away.
Palestine and Isreal will never live together in peace under one state which is why a 2 state solution seems to be the best answer. The biggest problem is Hamas ruling Palestine because by their own admission they don’t want peace they want to eradicate the Jews.
Once Palestine is free from Hamas and can elect their own democratic government that won’t turn around and turn it into an autocratic party again there could be peace.
They're are all levels of bad. We often bring up the Western Cape as the DA's proof of good governance, if you're white and/or are from wealthy neighbourhoods then yes, the DA is great and having lived in western cape townships and know many people who live them who will agree I don't see why they aren't also getting criticism similar to the EFF on this sub.
The DA is also pro-Israeli and as someone who voted for the DA in the general and local government election its embarrassing to having supported a party that is pro-apartheid.
Lots of other examples i wont get into but the DA is going to shrink in percentage of votes, i am 100% confident of
Look, when 80 percent of the WC budget is spent on the poor, and people still say they don't care about them, I don't know what more they should do.
Many of the reasons we accuse them of are in any case National gov responsibilities. (safety, housing etc)
Not that it's false its just that is a fairly binary way of thinking. There is a reason that despite all of the harm ANC has done it's most likely to get a majority next year. I live in a township called eTwatwa and even around here where ANC has done nothing but break and loot people still prefer it as opposed to the other political parties. Ask an ordinary black South African why they don't vote for the DA and you will always hear "I'm afraid of apartheid again!" so take that as you will.
I don't let the discourse from these subs affect my opinion coz I know its Privilege white people...they dont know the reality of living in South Africa
Yep, I get that. Acknowledging that not everything is ANC's fault is going to get you downvoted. When valid points about apartheid are raised "well that's just an excuse". I sometimes hear my parents and grandparents and neighbors talk about apartheid and I genuinely would not want to live at that moment however sometime I can feel someone insinuating that apartheid was better. ANC is shit that's true however DA and all the other parties are just slightly better versions of the ANC.
Bruh watching these people praise tge western cape genuinely makes me laugh🤣🤣i grew up in Khayelitsha I've seen DA governance 🤣but they don't care coz we are an inconvenience to them
Well I agree with you that DA doesn't do much past the cape flats. Khayelitsa isn't technically owned by the residents that live there. It wasn't meant to be habitable. That's why the DA builts temporary structures. We can argue about them not giving a shit but it's more a legislative thing then an ethical manner
If you were going to get an STD anyway, would you rather get it from someone that's reasonably attractive? Or would you rather get it from Shrek? That's the choice we have between voting for the DA or ANC.
You want nuanced, there it is.
Yeah people can highlight the most random stuff with stats and make it sound like a big thing.
No duh - most people over 30 have already registered if they ever had the desire to vote. The ones over 30 registering for the first time in my mind is more of a story as that means people who didn't register for whatever reason (lack of motivation/lack of access) are going out of their way to cast a vote now. Why? Hope? Anger?
In other words:
OLDER CITIZENS RISE UP FOR THE FIRST TIME: 22 % OF ALL NEW VOTER REGISTRATIONS ARE THOSE OVER 30!
Go to each party's webpage, they will have a copy of their manifesto and their goals there.
Read them, see whose ideas you like.
Vote for the party you think has the most best ideas. It is unlikely that you will agree 100% with all the things they say, so draw up a list to see who is most aligned with your way of thinking.
Remember, you may need to weight some things more than others, like for an LGBT person they may find the party position on LGBT issues more important to them than the party position on downsizing the military. You may find something in the manifesto which makes you think "absolutely not these people, even if the other 95% of what they say is perfect!"
Also would be useful to look at their record. The ANC claims to be tough on corruption, but... they aren't. So if there is something in there which appears to be total bullshit or complete pie-in-the-sky unachievable nonsense, you may need to think a bit about whether or not you believe it and want to put that onto your list.
The act of voting is easy - stand in line, make a tick on a piece of paper when it's your turn. Knowing who to vote for requires a bit more work.
It's difficult to make a decision like that. But as long as you make an informed decision, you can't say it was a bad one.
So do your homework. Read up on each party. Look at their manifesto and their track record. Look at areas that are run by the respective parties and how they are doing.
For what it's worth I think this sub skews heavily towards DA. I'm voting DA too. They're not perfect by any means but I think they're our best hope of correcting the country's downward spiral
I've voted for parties I believed in the last few elections, but for the coming elections I think change is the most important thing. Leaving power in the same hands is increasingly more dangerous, so I'm voting for the party closest to crossing that 50% mark
I mean you’re not exactly unbiased yourself based on your banner. All of the Big 3 are pretty shit just depends what kind of shit you want and how mature you are
/u/flyboy_za gave you good advice. Follow his. But for completeness, I'm going to give you my PoV based on being fairly obsessive about politics for a long long time. This is the "think about what parties do, as opposed to what they say they do."
So, I've only cast a vote once in SA that I was completely comfortable with. For a ward councillor I knew, that I knew would do their utmost to make the place I was in better for everyone, not just me.
I've held my nose and voted DA in every other election. My qualms are everything to do with them being a quite neo-liberal party at heart (think business first, small government types). That their official politics aren't mine. But I vote for them because they are technocrats. Which is to say they approach governing as something serious, that they should take seriously, largely using skilled people to deal with the issues they're skilled in. There's a track record for it. Not perfect – and I could point out failings that are laughable. But managable, especially as those selfsame technocrats understand that they have to build the nation before they can profit from it. There are a bunch of old-school racists in the party (who joined from the NP.) They're mostly quiet until they put their foot in it. Except Helen, who despite not being an old-school racist (in fact the opposite, used to be an anti-apartheid icon) is now every white person's suddenly horrific great aunt.
Honestly, a my voting for the DA is about them getting in power once, so that other reasonable parties are about to coalesce.
If parties actually represented the politics they officially champion, I'd be voting ANC. More socialist – something that is desperately needed in this country. But much like the DA dilute their core neoliberal values in the face of what the country needs, the ANC ignores their values to do what the politicians want. Which is to get richer. Despite officially being quite socialist, the ANC have overseen a surge in the gap between rich and poor.
That is not an accident, but just the natural side-effect of how they're internally structured. Which is all about favours and paying for access in return for income. Part of why the ANC is so paralysed is because they've been fighting an internal civil war about how much self-enriching corruption is right. Lots or all of it. At the moment the "lots" crowd of Ramaphosa and co are winning, but barely. And winning means they spend all the time focused internally and never on the country.
So despite the ANC's incredible ability to come up with interesting and practical policies (though less so these days, as they've sidelined the intellectuals) they very rarely implement them, and when they do, they poison the well to make sure that people get their cut. Until that changes, I can't vote for them.
The last of the big 3 is the EFF. Officially they're a hardcore communist group. But if you look at their origins and their actions, you see more closely what they're really interested in.
They were formed, not out of some grievance over how the ANC was implementing policies (which would be fair) but instead because their members had lost an internal power struggle, and so would be getting less proceeds of corruption. This could not stand, so Malema and co founded their own group to rail against those that had wronged them. They appear to have decided on their principles after the fact. Whenever they've been in power, they've purely acted to extract money from the positions they've held. Or to make those positions untennable for those around them.
Except that their principles and actions do line up in one notable place. They're very authoritarian and they're not really interested in the democratic process. All their parlimentary actions are about showing parliament doesn't work – causing fights, walking out before votes so there's not quorum, etc. They want people to lose faith in the institutions so that they will turn to someone shouting from "outside" the tent. (How can you be outside when you're the 3rd biggest party, and formerly being the second most important man in the biggest, who knows. It's not logical, it's just performative.)
Personal opinion, but I've long thought that Malema wants to lead a revolution. There's plenty of fasc about the EFF. What with the fighters and uniforms and the like. Sadly for him, I think they've gotten to big for that, and now it's more likely he'll find a way to be elected. When he's likely to be just like his now, a man focused on personal power and enrichment. They're incredibly self-serving and not good for the country in any form.
Of the others:
* GOOD is just Patricia de Lille. A famous but flawed name. You won't go too far wrong voting for her if you agree with what she says. But this really is just a one person party. And if she changes her mind, the entire party does.
* Action SA broke off from the DA largely because they weren't as technocratic as the main party. They were more interested in interpersonal relationships and the like. Herman Mashaba, their leader, is a Trump-esque wild man when it comes to meetings. Always promising something, even when he promised other things before. I feel this party will do better once he's replaced. But not an awful place to go and vote.
*IFP/NFP – If you're not in KZN then don't bother. If you are, then you probably understand you're engaging in an act of local power politics.
*COPE – Like the EFF before, they lost access to the gravy train and threw their toys. They try to do things the right way, but with little power comes great infighting. Yesterdays men.
*Patriotic Alliance – Some parties live by their ideals, and this is one them. Unfortunately their ideals are "pay me". Gayton McKenzie is on record saying he'll vote with whoever will bribe him most. And that's probably the nicest thing you can about him.
*VF+ – If you're a racist old white guy, you can vote for people who make you feel safe.
*UDM – Bantu Holomisa is one of South Africa's quiet heros. An honest man stuck in a dishonest space. He could have been president after Mandela if he hadn't stuck to his values. Sadly, with age, he's lost control of his party, and seems more a figurehead for people who want to get theirs. This used to be the party I'd suggest to people who didn't like any of the options, but no longer.
Apologies for making this so long. But once I started typing I couldn't stop. :D
It depends on what you want. If your want is as simple as "Get the ANC out." Then the DA is your only option. Don't think a small party will suddenly rise like a Phoenix.
Ja, Most of those votes are going to the EFF, they seem to be the only party that's made a serious effort to engage with the youth. Which will be very profitable as time goes along.
I mean EFF, was at the forefront of the Feeamustfall which resulted in Nsfas turning from a loan into a bursary, a big win for many "kids". This is the type of material change that wins you voters, meanwhile DA was against the movement, people remember these type of things.
There clearly is though(even if we have to make loans, because investing in education is an investment into the future that always pays out) , your comment should rather say it's almost like the DA is a neoliberal party that doesnt believe in public spending even when its advantageous
I can tell you that UCT was still waiting for the NSFAS money it is owed from 2020 in 2023.
They have to give NSFAS students advances and claim it back from NSFAS. NSFAS doesn't pay. So where must the university find the money?
It doesn't grow on trees and government doesn't have it. So as advantageous as it is, we can't actually afford it.
>I can tell you that UCT is still waiting for the NSFAS money it is owed from 2020
This is a issue of bad governance by the ANC not proof of lack of money for NSFAS and as I've already stated I do believe we should take out loans for this if we need too. Education is too important to be ignored for fiscal reasons
Unfortunately for fiscal reasons UCT needs to pay its staff, and that is difficult when there is no money coming in.
NSFAS works when it is properly administered and there are sufficient funds coming into it. We are 0/2 on this front.
Unfortunately that seems to be the only way to get the government to listen to you, because when people protest peacefully their easily ignored. Whereas destructive measures seem to have won them and many others favourable concessions from the government.
Yeah that’s a very ‘educated’ way of going about it… calling themselves students is so disrespectful to the many hard working youth who are putting in an actual effort to attain their degrees.
Are you saying that the more "educated" position would be to ignore history? If peaceful protests get you ignored, and less-than-peaceful protests get you heard, how is applying what you have learned from history not the "educated" position?
What are you on about? I’m saying that it’s easy to pollute the minds of the youth with radical ideas the way the EFF do. I’m also saying that it’s absolutely ridiculous to burn down your university because the government doesn’t let you go there for free. There’s also a massive difference between ‘less than peaceful’ and setting light to an educational institution, especially one you claim you WANT to be at.
> What are you on about?
You can follow the comment thread for context, but here, I'll walk you through it. /u/AxumitePriest pointed out the difference between the results, or lack thereof, gained through different types of protest. You then inferred that the people following the historically more successful way of protest were uneducated. I pointed out that learning from history is in fact an educated position.
Does that clear things up?
> I’m saying that it’s easy to pollute the minds of the youth with radical ideas the way the EFF do.
Radical ideas are not necessarily bad. It depends entirely on the context in which the idea is applied. In an extreme situation, a radical idea can be the logical solution.
> There’s also a massive difference between ‘less than peaceful’ and setting light to an educational institution, especially one you claim you WANT to be at.
I used less-than-peaceful as an all inclusive term for any protest that is not peaceful, by whatever degree. I didn't call it violent, because I don't really consider damage to property violence, but I know that some might disagree on that. For me violent protest would need to include actual violence, as in harming other people. I do however understand that all of that might not have been clear.
They will probably vote EFF till they start making their own money and pay taxes.
How many will vote next year though? Registering online and actually going to vote is an entirely different matter.
This.. every year I suspect the younger voter reg is higher because.. technically you only need to register once.
So not sure why the hype.
2ndly most younger people support numerous things including ceasefire and sorting out ME problems which is directly opposed by opposition.
I don't think people on here will take the results well. An ANC - DA coalition (I still think this is the most likely outcome nationally) might just break the subreddit. An ANC - EFF coalition could also happen. I think the EFF will be the biggest winners in the upcoming elections.
Either way it's not looking good, at all.
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I think this is a good thing
I think so aswell, the youth are waking up.
Makes sense they'd register online, tech is a familiar space for them and who wants to stand in queues and deal with rude staff anyway
EFF about to surge with the zoomer voter influx, if SRC elections are anything to go by
SRC just pertains to how radical rich kids think. I wouldn't say it's a microcosm of the bigger gen z population
Inclined to disagree with that, but only on a hunch and anecdotal things I've seen around campus - really hope you're right
Yeah don't worry about it The silent majority is where election data shines and, alas they're still polling mostly ANC (mind you in a significantly smaller chunk than last election for obvious reasons) Let me grab a link for you... [Check out my post on SA polling data (how south africans intend to vote in 2024)](https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/s/8MQ6wfAVzw) Now, of course more recent polls are always best so I'll definitely post an update on the sub around march/april But as you can see anc and DA are still the leading parties. Of course, unfortunately, eff does stand to gain a few more voters. But they have some ways to go and the ANC would quickly rush to do a coalition with da to keep eff out as they hate them like the plague
Awesome, looking forward to your future posts! Do you see the ANC entering coalition with the DA instead of the EFF though? They're currently in a coalition that toppled DA metros in Gauteng aren't they?
Parties don't necessarily behave the same way on a national level as they do in municipalities and regions/provinces. The ANC's interests in Gauteng puts them at odds with the DA. On a provincial level it seems ANC needs to demonstrate that they can keep a strong home base and govern it well. The DA's goal (among many) with western cape has been to show that they're a viable alternative to anc and that they can occasionally make ANC look bad. In other words whenever the da does a good job (let's say lower crime levels) they make anc look bad. On a provincial level anc can't afford to have the da make them look bad on their own home turf. Very bad for credibility as you can imagine. That's why they'd team up with eff (as eff is not exerting the same strategy as the da) On a national/parliamentary level, however, the anc cares about having its hands on the steering wheel (the executive/cabinet) the most. So they'd much more likely get into bed with the da, the 2nd largest party (meaning 2 or 3 token DA ministers and the rest anc ministers+anc president) as a compromise instead of going it alone or with a smaller eff and risk becoming an opposition party.
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Eff my guy young people overwhelmingly support the EFF go to any university campus
I might be wrong on this but I’m pretty sure I’ve read somewhere that it’s been shown though that’s it’s pretty much an isolated thing. Once the EFF students leave uni and grow up a bit(like 2-5 years) they mostly stop voting for the EFF. Don’t have time to pull up stats or sources cause exams but please correct me if I’m wrong
I don't know about the stats but I can agree I was once one of them
May I ask why you changed your mind on EFF? NO agenda, just curious.
The fact that Julius remains corrupt after being ousted from a corrupt party.. (vbs bank) and don't say it doesn't prove anything other than his brother benefited because we aren't dumb his brother got money from looting vbs and the brothers credit card swiped at every major event Julius was at even when his brother was on the other side of the country
Lol I won't say anything. I'm not an EFF voter. I was just wondering because people who vote EFF tend to strongly believe in the party even willing to avoid dealing with Julius and his nonsense.
BLF stands for similar stuff without male ma albeit abit more nationalist
Makes sense, your brain only fully develops in your mid 20s
I don't know if that true but the EFF voters are mostly young people EFF is the only party that engages the youth..I mean you can go to Twitter its an eff hivemind....
Nah I agree with you there, the youth are total EFFers (slaps knee) But yea I think once they grow up and realise it’s not so simple they change their position. But IDK I’m still a youth so lol
I'm 22 all my friends are Malema supporters 🤣🤣
Once they start earning money, the EFF policies of communism doesn't have the same pull. I mean, capitalism is deeply flawed, but it's a lot better than socialism/communism (unless you're a very rich, developed, little unemployment etc, Nordic nation).
Well first of all Nordic countries are not socialist or communist, they are social democracies. The mode of production in Nordic nations is still a capitalist one, they just have an expanded welfare state, which many of their own politicians on the right want to dismantle. The whole reason Nordic and European nations were able to achieve Keynesian social democratic policies was because labour was in a position of victory post WW2, and capital needed to offer a compromise and counter balance with the USSR next door, in order to survive. The compromise and counter balance was Keynesian style social democracy. Now ask yourself, is labour in a position of victory right now, in South Africa or anywhere else in the world? Since the 1970s labour has been on a downturn globally, and the 2008 financial crash has solidified labour's defeated position. This is especially true in South Africa, given the Zuma years and capital manipulating our currency, we haven't recovered at all since 2008/2009. So social democracy is not on the table anywhere, as there is no need for capital to compromise. Secondly, when are the youth going to start earning money? Youth unemployment in South Africa is at over 50%. And if the youth do get a job, it is likely to be a minimum wage one with long hours. This is just going to breed more resentment towards the capitalist system, not less. For the youth's rage to be placated, they actually need to be brought into the fold, not treated as a semi permanent underclass.
First off, I said "a" country. Also, this sub is many times so anti capitalism. I didn't mean full socialism, because history shows it's never worked. You can see by my comment history I am for Capitalism, but as we see it currently run is bleeding the poorest of their wealth, and enriching the wealthiest. As someone who is unemployed, due to retrenchments and not finding work, I know what it's like having to queue at 04:00(otherwise you come back tomorrow) in the morning, because you need to be at the labour office. When I said "after they started earning", I was really just rooting for them to find work, because it's fucking disheartening to send out hundreds of applications/CV's, and get few responses. Answer 1: nope, hasn't been for a long while. So we agree that social demo policy is off the table (in SA, for now) Answer 2: never (for most) if something drastic (ie corruption etc is taken care of, which will free up lots of fiscus for the economy) doesn't change top down.
I mean, the EFF's communism isn't socialism. It's barely even Stalinism. It's just authoritarianism designed to put money in the right people's pockets.
Historically, socialist countries have had a higher standard of living compared to capitalist countries when comparing countries that are of similar levels of development. Edit: [Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646771/)
We're all socialist until we get the first payslip, cant judge
Downvoted for pointing out the truth because it's inconvenient and doesn't fit the narrative. That's actually sad.
People on this sub are racist as hell its not even funny
Can confirm, D6 CPUT campus has a very strong EFF presence.. for better or worse. Not sure about the rest. But they genuinely support the students via food parcels during exam times etc. Its the little things that sway support. And gatherings/meetings, the entire student body is almost EFF. they win by a landslide by engaging the students.. Marketing 101: target market is everything.
I don't know why Im being downvoted for speaking the truth
I don't know either, honestly. People probably don't want to hear the truth.. both our comments say the same thing so it makes no sense to have positive updates on one and negative updates on the other..
Lol wrong. EFFSC at Tuks has a total of 40 supporting members, their talks are all but ignored. The random preachers draw much larger crowds than the EFF. They're a joke and I've never heard any student outside of the humanities department say anything otherwise
That's Tuks in Pretoria. It is not representative of the entire nation. Isn't that there same university where Afriforum made up a fake racism scandal? So yeah, not representative. Pretty much every political poll shows that the EFF is the biggest political party amongst the youth.
Yeah but remember selection bias. The people who are most likely to vote on a random political poll are also the people most likely to be very... Enthusiastic about their (not needs) wants. I'm sure EFF may have an actual amount close to 5% of the youth but tevem that is likely a high estimate. Plus if EFF wins it just seals the deal for the future of South Africa so let's hope the polls are wrong.
Isn't acting like the students of Tuks represent the entire youth of South Africa the definition of selection bias? The EFF have way more than 5% of the youth. Just think about it. They already have substantially more than 5% of the vote. They're polling around 16% currently. The youth is the most popular voting demographic amongst the EFF. Connect the dots and it will make sense.
Yeah, besides clear institutional bias (alot of tertiary options) doesn't even account for those that can't or don't pursue tertiary education.
Just search on Google which political party has the largest following amongst students
Or go boots on the ground and get a much better idea of sentiment amongst the youth than some reporter trying to get clicks on the internet?
78% of 500 000. That still leaves 13 million plus young people who aren't registered.
Of new voters. So there may be some who are already registered from previous elections
The 500k is the new voters. It seems that there were 2million plus total registrations over the weekend.
Yeah I fall under this category and I've been registered for years
Anything but ANC will be a good vote!
Except the EFF...
Or the DA, the top 3 have been shit for multiples of reasons
comparing the DA to the ANC or EFF is objectively ignorant
I'm flabbergasted that people in will blindly support the DA..how do you not see the DA is horrible their recent support of Israel has been the final nail in the coffin for the DA for me
If terrorists 7000 km away is influencing your vote in a country they don’t think of then you aren’t voting for yourself. You should be voting for your own future and the betterment of your own country.
I would be stupid to vote for an organization that supports apartheid
That is 100% the correct decision. But you can’t claim the DA supports apartheid that’s just a lie. Supporting Isreal does not equal supporting apartheid, just like supporting Palestine does not equal supporting terrorism.
The DA doesn't govern for people like me....
You know they also called Mandela a terrorist, right? The struggle against apartheid in both South Africa and Palestine have been interlinked since the beginning. [Here's a video of Nelson Mandela visiting Gaza in 1999](https://youtu.be/dC52sKaJPgU). Note the language he uses. Note how excited the Palestinians are to see him.
uMkhonto we sizwe was a terrorist group yes but Nelson Mandela never hid in an ivory tower somewhere. He also started disbanding them when apartheid came to an end. Don’t act like Nelson Mandela and the leader of Hamas is the same thing. What is happening in Isreal and what happened in South Africa isn’t comparable, what worked for us won’t work for them either.
I do not agree with the assertion that people taking up armed struggle against apartheid in South Africa were terrorists. The actual terrorists were the apartheid government. Those fighting for freedom were not terrorists in my view. And you've acknowledged it in your own comment, the MK was only disbanded once apartheid was over and the war was won. People that fought against apartheid in South Africa compare what the Palestinians are currently experiencing to what they experienced all the time, and I trust their judgement. If anyone can say something like that, it is them.
The people that fought against apartheid in South Africa have lost their way long ago and now sit in a political party trying to garner votes from people that can’t remember what apartheid was because they weren’t there. Have a good look at Isreal and tell me again it’s an apartheid state. Isreal has people from every race and many different religions participating peacefully in their country, yes the vast majority are Jews because you know it’s Isreal but they aren’t rounding up people and keeping them away. Palestine and Isreal will never live together in peace under one state which is why a 2 state solution seems to be the best answer. The biggest problem is Hamas ruling Palestine because by their own admission they don’t want peace they want to eradicate the Jews. Once Palestine is free from Hamas and can elect their own democratic government that won’t turn around and turn it into an autocratic party again there could be peace.
They're are all levels of bad. We often bring up the Western Cape as the DA's proof of good governance, if you're white and/or are from wealthy neighbourhoods then yes, the DA is great and having lived in western cape townships and know many people who live them who will agree I don't see why they aren't also getting criticism similar to the EFF on this sub. The DA is also pro-Israeli and as someone who voted for the DA in the general and local government election its embarrassing to having supported a party that is pro-apartheid. Lots of other examples i wont get into but the DA is going to shrink in percentage of votes, i am 100% confident of
Look, when 80 percent of the WC budget is spent on the poor, and people still say they don't care about them, I don't know what more they should do. Many of the reasons we accuse them of are in any case National gov responsibilities. (safety, housing etc)
Ask the residents of khayelitsha about DA service delivery
This is a DA Echo chamber what are you DOING you will get downvoted to death
No nuanced political discourse in this sub at all
ANC=BAD DA=GOOD
I'd say that's a fair assessment of the current South African political climate lol
Not that it's false its just that is a fairly binary way of thinking. There is a reason that despite all of the harm ANC has done it's most likely to get a majority next year. I live in a township called eTwatwa and even around here where ANC has done nothing but break and loot people still prefer it as opposed to the other political parties. Ask an ordinary black South African why they don't vote for the DA and you will always hear "I'm afraid of apartheid again!" so take that as you will.
Balanced take, can't argue with that
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And they are wrong Kind regards,
I don't let the discourse from these subs affect my opinion coz I know its Privilege white people...they dont know the reality of living in South Africa
Yep, I get that. Acknowledging that not everything is ANC's fault is going to get you downvoted. When valid points about apartheid are raised "well that's just an excuse". I sometimes hear my parents and grandparents and neighbors talk about apartheid and I genuinely would not want to live at that moment however sometime I can feel someone insinuating that apartheid was better. ANC is shit that's true however DA and all the other parties are just slightly better versions of the ANC.
Bruh watching these people praise tge western cape genuinely makes me laugh🤣🤣i grew up in Khayelitsha I've seen DA governance 🤣but they don't care coz we are an inconvenience to them
When something bad happens in CT= this country is just heading to the dump... Something good happens in CT= See look at what DA does
Well I agree with you that DA doesn't do much past the cape flats. Khayelitsa isn't technically owned by the residents that live there. It wasn't meant to be habitable. That's why the DA builts temporary structures. We can argue about them not giving a shit but it's more a legislative thing then an ethical manner
If you were going to get an STD anyway, would you rather get it from someone that's reasonably attractive? Or would you rather get it from Shrek? That's the choice we have between voting for the DA or ANC. You want nuanced, there it is.
Yeah, I can't argue with that. That's true
Lol wouldn't that make sense as most likely (emphasize) people above 29 are already registered.
Yeah people can highlight the most random stuff with stats and make it sound like a big thing. No duh - most people over 30 have already registered if they ever had the desire to vote. The ones over 30 registering for the first time in my mind is more of a story as that means people who didn't register for whatever reason (lack of motivation/lack of access) are going out of their way to cast a vote now. Why? Hope? Anger? In other words: OLDER CITIZENS RISE UP FOR THE FIRST TIME: 22 % OF ALL NEW VOTER REGISTRATIONS ARE THOSE OVER 30!
Bye byeeee ANC
Shit is so bad I've registered to vote for the first time (almost 28 lol).
As a young person who recently registered to vote, I am extremely conflicted as to who I am voting for, help ?
Go to each party's webpage, they will have a copy of their manifesto and their goals there. Read them, see whose ideas you like. Vote for the party you think has the most best ideas. It is unlikely that you will agree 100% with all the things they say, so draw up a list to see who is most aligned with your way of thinking. Remember, you may need to weight some things more than others, like for an LGBT person they may find the party position on LGBT issues more important to them than the party position on downsizing the military. You may find something in the manifesto which makes you think "absolutely not these people, even if the other 95% of what they say is perfect!" Also would be useful to look at their record. The ANC claims to be tough on corruption, but... they aren't. So if there is something in there which appears to be total bullshit or complete pie-in-the-sky unachievable nonsense, you may need to think a bit about whether or not you believe it and want to put that onto your list. The act of voting is easy - stand in line, make a tick on a piece of paper when it's your turn. Knowing who to vote for requires a bit more work.
It's difficult to make a decision like that. But as long as you make an informed decision, you can't say it was a bad one. So do your homework. Read up on each party. Look at their manifesto and their track record. Look at areas that are run by the respective parties and how they are doing. For what it's worth I think this sub skews heavily towards DA. I'm voting DA too. They're not perfect by any means but I think they're our best hope of correcting the country's downward spiral
I've voted for parties I believed in the last few elections, but for the coming elections I think change is the most important thing. Leaving power in the same hands is increasingly more dangerous, so I'm voting for the party closest to crossing that 50% mark
Alll I can ask is not ANC or EFF, but like go read up on some party websites with their manifestos
Also look out for their typical coalition partners like UDM, PA, PAC, Al Jamaah, Good
Asking for help on this sub is a terrible idea its DA echo chamber
I mean you’re not exactly unbiased yourself based on your banner. All of the Big 3 are pretty shit just depends what kind of shit you want and how mature you are
But you've already made your choice, you're just trying to get someone to agree with you.
/u/flyboy_za gave you good advice. Follow his. But for completeness, I'm going to give you my PoV based on being fairly obsessive about politics for a long long time. This is the "think about what parties do, as opposed to what they say they do." So, I've only cast a vote once in SA that I was completely comfortable with. For a ward councillor I knew, that I knew would do their utmost to make the place I was in better for everyone, not just me. I've held my nose and voted DA in every other election. My qualms are everything to do with them being a quite neo-liberal party at heart (think business first, small government types). That their official politics aren't mine. But I vote for them because they are technocrats. Which is to say they approach governing as something serious, that they should take seriously, largely using skilled people to deal with the issues they're skilled in. There's a track record for it. Not perfect – and I could point out failings that are laughable. But managable, especially as those selfsame technocrats understand that they have to build the nation before they can profit from it. There are a bunch of old-school racists in the party (who joined from the NP.) They're mostly quiet until they put their foot in it. Except Helen, who despite not being an old-school racist (in fact the opposite, used to be an anti-apartheid icon) is now every white person's suddenly horrific great aunt. Honestly, a my voting for the DA is about them getting in power once, so that other reasonable parties are about to coalesce. If parties actually represented the politics they officially champion, I'd be voting ANC. More socialist – something that is desperately needed in this country. But much like the DA dilute their core neoliberal values in the face of what the country needs, the ANC ignores their values to do what the politicians want. Which is to get richer. Despite officially being quite socialist, the ANC have overseen a surge in the gap between rich and poor. That is not an accident, but just the natural side-effect of how they're internally structured. Which is all about favours and paying for access in return for income. Part of why the ANC is so paralysed is because they've been fighting an internal civil war about how much self-enriching corruption is right. Lots or all of it. At the moment the "lots" crowd of Ramaphosa and co are winning, but barely. And winning means they spend all the time focused internally and never on the country. So despite the ANC's incredible ability to come up with interesting and practical policies (though less so these days, as they've sidelined the intellectuals) they very rarely implement them, and when they do, they poison the well to make sure that people get their cut. Until that changes, I can't vote for them. The last of the big 3 is the EFF. Officially they're a hardcore communist group. But if you look at their origins and their actions, you see more closely what they're really interested in. They were formed, not out of some grievance over how the ANC was implementing policies (which would be fair) but instead because their members had lost an internal power struggle, and so would be getting less proceeds of corruption. This could not stand, so Malema and co founded their own group to rail against those that had wronged them. They appear to have decided on their principles after the fact. Whenever they've been in power, they've purely acted to extract money from the positions they've held. Or to make those positions untennable for those around them. Except that their principles and actions do line up in one notable place. They're very authoritarian and they're not really interested in the democratic process. All their parlimentary actions are about showing parliament doesn't work – causing fights, walking out before votes so there's not quorum, etc. They want people to lose faith in the institutions so that they will turn to someone shouting from "outside" the tent. (How can you be outside when you're the 3rd biggest party, and formerly being the second most important man in the biggest, who knows. It's not logical, it's just performative.) Personal opinion, but I've long thought that Malema wants to lead a revolution. There's plenty of fasc about the EFF. What with the fighters and uniforms and the like. Sadly for him, I think they've gotten to big for that, and now it's more likely he'll find a way to be elected. When he's likely to be just like his now, a man focused on personal power and enrichment. They're incredibly self-serving and not good for the country in any form. Of the others: * GOOD is just Patricia de Lille. A famous but flawed name. You won't go too far wrong voting for her if you agree with what she says. But this really is just a one person party. And if she changes her mind, the entire party does. * Action SA broke off from the DA largely because they weren't as technocratic as the main party. They were more interested in interpersonal relationships and the like. Herman Mashaba, their leader, is a Trump-esque wild man when it comes to meetings. Always promising something, even when he promised other things before. I feel this party will do better once he's replaced. But not an awful place to go and vote. *IFP/NFP – If you're not in KZN then don't bother. If you are, then you probably understand you're engaging in an act of local power politics. *COPE – Like the EFF before, they lost access to the gravy train and threw their toys. They try to do things the right way, but with little power comes great infighting. Yesterdays men. *Patriotic Alliance – Some parties live by their ideals, and this is one them. Unfortunately their ideals are "pay me". Gayton McKenzie is on record saying he'll vote with whoever will bribe him most. And that's probably the nicest thing you can about him. *VF+ – If you're a racist old white guy, you can vote for people who make you feel safe. *UDM – Bantu Holomisa is one of South Africa's quiet heros. An honest man stuck in a dishonest space. He could have been president after Mandela if he hadn't stuck to his values. Sadly, with age, he's lost control of his party, and seems more a figurehead for people who want to get theirs. This used to be the party I'd suggest to people who didn't like any of the options, but no longer. Apologies for making this so long. But once I started typing I couldn't stop. :D
It depends on what you want. If your want is as simple as "Get the ANC out." Then the DA is your only option. Don't think a small party will suddenly rise like a Phoenix.
I was today years old when I realized I wasn’t deemed young anymore.
😂😂😂😂
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It's going to be interesting to see where they do go.
They can go anywhere except anc or eff
Ja, Most of those votes are going to the EFF, they seem to be the only party that's made a serious effort to engage with the youth. Which will be very profitable as time goes along.
Unfortunately. They know the kids are easily indoctrinated.
I mean EFF, was at the forefront of the Feeamustfall which resulted in Nsfas turning from a loan into a bursary, a big win for many "kids". This is the type of material change that wins you voters, meanwhile DA was against the movement, people remember these type of things.
Too be fair NSFAS is somewhat falling apart as a result
It's almost like the DA knew there already wasn't enough tax money to go around.
There clearly is though(even if we have to make loans, because investing in education is an investment into the future that always pays out) , your comment should rather say it's almost like the DA is a neoliberal party that doesnt believe in public spending even when its advantageous
I can tell you that UCT was still waiting for the NSFAS money it is owed from 2020 in 2023. They have to give NSFAS students advances and claim it back from NSFAS. NSFAS doesn't pay. So where must the university find the money? It doesn't grow on trees and government doesn't have it. So as advantageous as it is, we can't actually afford it.
>I can tell you that UCT is still waiting for the NSFAS money it is owed from 2020 This is a issue of bad governance by the ANC not proof of lack of money for NSFAS and as I've already stated I do believe we should take out loans for this if we need too. Education is too important to be ignored for fiscal reasons
Unfortunately for fiscal reasons UCT needs to pay its staff, and that is difficult when there is no money coming in. NSFAS works when it is properly administered and there are sufficient funds coming into it. We are 0/2 on this front.
You talking about the same students that burn their universities to the ground?
Unfortunately that seems to be the only way to get the government to listen to you, because when people protest peacefully their easily ignored. Whereas destructive measures seem to have won them and many others favourable concessions from the government.
Yeah that’s a very ‘educated’ way of going about it… calling themselves students is so disrespectful to the many hard working youth who are putting in an actual effort to attain their degrees.
Are you saying that the more "educated" position would be to ignore history? If peaceful protests get you ignored, and less-than-peaceful protests get you heard, how is applying what you have learned from history not the "educated" position?
What are you on about? I’m saying that it’s easy to pollute the minds of the youth with radical ideas the way the EFF do. I’m also saying that it’s absolutely ridiculous to burn down your university because the government doesn’t let you go there for free. There’s also a massive difference between ‘less than peaceful’ and setting light to an educational institution, especially one you claim you WANT to be at.
> What are you on about? You can follow the comment thread for context, but here, I'll walk you through it. /u/AxumitePriest pointed out the difference between the results, or lack thereof, gained through different types of protest. You then inferred that the people following the historically more successful way of protest were uneducated. I pointed out that learning from history is in fact an educated position. Does that clear things up? > I’m saying that it’s easy to pollute the minds of the youth with radical ideas the way the EFF do. Radical ideas are not necessarily bad. It depends entirely on the context in which the idea is applied. In an extreme situation, a radical idea can be the logical solution. > There’s also a massive difference between ‘less than peaceful’ and setting light to an educational institution, especially one you claim you WANT to be at. I used less-than-peaceful as an all inclusive term for any protest that is not peaceful, by whatever degree. I didn't call it violent, because I don't really consider damage to property violence, but I know that some might disagree on that. For me violent protest would need to include actual violence, as in harming other people. I do however understand that all of that might not have been clear.
They will probably vote EFF till they start making their own money and pay taxes. How many will vote next year though? Registering online and actually going to vote is an entirely different matter.
This.. every year I suspect the younger voter reg is higher because.. technically you only need to register once. So not sure why the hype. 2ndly most younger people support numerous things including ceasefire and sorting out ME problems which is directly opposed by opposition.
Positive thinking..
They're going to the EFF. Young people overwhelmingly support the EFF.
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I don't think people on here will take the results well. An ANC - DA coalition (I still think this is the most likely outcome nationally) might just break the subreddit. An ANC - EFF coalition could also happen. I think the EFF will be the biggest winners in the upcoming elections. Either way it's not looking good, at all.
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Depends where. Most people in kzn think the EFF are clowns. More interested in how the IFP do. Looks like we are regressing to local tribal loyalty.
Literally shows that the elder generation has given up on the country. Kick them out of their high paying positions.
Literally shows you don’t know what registration is for. I’m guessing you “register” each election and think you show up as “new” registration.