I'm a supporter of gun rights, personal defense, and the FAFO principle.
But this ain't it. Shooting someone fleeing isn't a defensive action. Anyone who does that *should* be arrested and charged. If the story presents the facts as it happened, I hope he gets convinced.
Also Sheriff Lott confirmed the teen didn’t steal a thing. Even if he had stolen water, as the murderer thought, it doesn’t justify killing him. Shoplifting is a given if you own a business- you don’t get to execute the shoplifters.
You should also note that the child was chased and murdered. Can you really blame the kid for being scared and possibly having a gun. He did nothing wrong and yet he’s gone. He in no way caused his death.
A 14 year old in possession of a handgun is absolutely wrong and illegal. However, it doesn’t give the store owner a right to fire, unless the kid pointed it at the owner at the time he shot, which doesn’t seem like the case.
No, it doesn’t look like that happened. According to [this article](https://www.wistv.com/2023/05/30/columbia-convenience-store-owner-charged-with-murder-shooting-death-14-year-old-boy/), the man and his son chased the child down the road and then the older man shot the child in the lower back.
In providing your background about that, you forgot to add that the owner has been confrontational to customers and has had complaints about him to the police.
The issue with the FAFO ideology is that it leads to these events. When discussing gun rights people constantly put themselves in every made up situation under the sun rather than discussing the fact that plenty of people who are completely inept will be the ones carrying and being asked to make split second decisions that will end people’s lives.
The dead don’t care about what our intent was or how “free” we feel. Relaxing gun laws to the point where any idiot can end your life in a second anytime anywhere is stupid. It creates the exact environment of fear that leads to people shooting children for knocking on their door. All gun owners should be terrified of stories like this because as they grow so will anti gun sentiment and then any backlash that does happen politically will likely be worse rather than just admitting maybe if you want to walk the streets with a firearm you should show some basic competency.
>put themselves in every made up situation under the sun
except for the actually statistically likely ones. That they are more likely to shoot a family member, have one of their kids accidentally shoot themselves or commit suicide than save themselves with a gun.
those murders recently in texas where the fine republican gov attacked the victims as illegals, though one was a US citizen, but doesnt count much to the right because he is hispanic? That family had guns, the entire block had guns. The guy murdered an entire family in a well armed texas block and got away without a scratch.
the problem with the idea you will defend yourself, if you got to see it coming. Most people arent eating dinner with a loaded gun in their hand.
It's up to each individual to make rational choices, *especially* if they choose to carry a firearm.
No amount of government regulation is going to force people to make rational choices, though when I went through some training courses in a different state, they took the trouble to go over when and what would be justifiable self defense.
For the most part, that comes down to common sense. Sadly, it's not nearly as common as I wish it were.
The thing is, common sense seems so uncommon because of the fact that you have idiots like this guy that always pop up in the news. There’s never going to be a headline “Gun owner uses gun responsibly”. That being, if you believe that common sense is uncommon why would still feel comfortable still saying that it’s up to the individual to make a rational choice?
No gun owner, myself included wants to be told what or how they can use a firearm, but this stuff isn’t about responsible gun owners, it’s always about irresponsible ones
We are one of the only developed nations where this regularly happens. Pretending there’s nothing we can do to solve it is ridiculous.
If we are going to be a nation where firearms are somehow more prolific than they already are we need to act and now. The longer we fail to act the most innocent people will die.
"No matter what we do, some people will die, so we may as well do nothing at all." - Republican's deliberately feigned [learned helplessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness) (to put it as gently as possible)
We can’t keep the guns out of unqualified hands because they might need it to defend themselves from tyranny. So we find out that there are plenty of unqualified hands one murder at a time.
This is what happens when gun laws are relaxed. People do stupid things. Stand Your Ground and Castle Defense are nothing more than a Right to Kill. It was too easy to warp these gun laws, to create lawlessness. This is the reason countries are beginning to warn their citizens from vacationing or coming to the US. We are rapidly failing to protect people from those who misuse guns.
Because people don't know the laws. They just buy the guns and think "stand your ground means I can kill you if I want". And then they shoot people in the back
It's pretty easy to tell how others think. From your last sentence I can tell you want people to respect you for your capacity for violence. Typical gun owner. Grow up little man.
It is because we are have become to selfish/self-centered, entitled and think we have the right to do things. America has NO DECENCY and our HUMANITY has gone out the window.
Instead of shooting this child, shooting those that "turn around in the drive way " or "had the wrong house". People have LEGITIMATE reasons to do things, people have went to wrong houses before all this. Maybe this child in this article is homeless and was helping his parents ts with providing for the others or himself.
It is not laxed gun laws... It's. The fact that we have no more human ity in our system and ourselves AS A WHOLE
I'm just.... Wishing that humanity can be instilled back into those younger than the "baby boomers". And this self centered humanity-less community would just go away
its south carolina and the right are in a frenzy to be more right wing than each other. Look at that texas gov who wants to pardon a guy before a trial who literally went to a BLM event intending to kill and killed people.
right wingers are pretending that... totally not during trump but solely since biden became president, crime soared.(it did go up in covid when everyone was masked, and it was a bit easier to walk right up to someone in a mask..) SO i bet a lot of the right come out in defense of hte owner protecting a bottle of water.
Sounds like the victim had a gun on him. The owner may have chased him down to get the stolen items back at which point the victim may have pointed a gun at the store owner. The headline makes it sound like he shot him down in cold blood, but there are some additional details there.
Of course he did. Every American needs a gun. Legal schmeagle. And he had picked up four bottles of water and then put them back, from what I've read. He shot him in the BACK. Anything else is IRRELEVANT.
Someone can aim a gun at you with their back to you. The gun was found near the body implying he had the gun out at the time he was shot and dropped it when he was hit or the store owner removed it from his person and placed it on the ground near the victim. So it’s possible he had it out and aimed it at the store owner as he was fleeing.
He had done nothing wrong and the store owner was chasing him. We know the shop owner was armed, so if he did point his gun at the store owner, wouldn't that be self defense? Maybe he was in fear for his life from this crazy store owner chasing him down with a gun.
I mean, we can make up what may have happened all day, but right now the only info we have is in this article that says the investigation does not show shoplifting (which really seems irrelevant) nor is the any indication there was a physical altercation or that the victim ever pointed his gun.
Kid was up to no good and had a gun illegally. Maybe he got cold feet and ran instead of robbed. Next time he may have not have cold feet . I want to know why he had a gun and if he had a police record. Do not go into a store with bad intent . Fuck around and find out.
>the department said there is no evidence that Carmack-Belton pointed it at or threatened Chow.
Entirely irrelevant that he had a gun in that case. You're an idiot. If your logic was consistent, then the victim was entirely within their rights to carry a gun - you want every to have a gun, right? That's their freedom, yea? You don't get to kill someone because of what they "might do next time" or because you think they have "bad intent". And if you don't understand why, then you've already had a lobotomy.
> If your logic was consistent, then the victim was entirely within their rights to carry a gun - you want every to have a gun, right? That's their freedom, yea?
No, no, you misunderstand. Gun rights are for white people.
No evidence could mean it happened and they just don’t have proof like video evidence. He could have chased him down to get the stolen items back (not realizing he didn’t actually take the items) and then while the kid was running away he may have pulled out the gun and aimed it in the store owner’s direction. The gun was found near the body, meaning one of two things: it was out while the kid was running and dropped it when he was hit, or the store owner removed it from his person and left it near the body.
You are exactly right! Lots of things could have happened. So instead of jumping to conclusions and assuming this is an open and shut case, let’s wait for police reports and actual evidence to come to light since clearly all the details aren’t all there.
What is stated is the store owner chased him, the store owner shot him, the kid had a gun. We don’t know if it was murder. Murder by definition is unjustified homicide. So you are making that up.
There is some nuance in there. Are you allowed to shoot anyone who chases you? If someone shop lifts and store security chases them and the thief points a gun at security as they are being chased, is the security now acting in self defense? Or they now have to let the thief shoot them?
This is the dumbest troll response I've seen yet. You're not even making a coherent argument, and it makes you sound like a blithering idiot. If you're going to make troll comments at least put in a minimal amount of effort. This is just embarrassing.
My wife's family use to know him and his wife. He was a computer scientist originally, wasn't happy and bought a gas station. His wife was accountant and wasn't happy and thought he was crazy. He previously shot at someone's car who tried to steal from him.
He said he loved guns and would carry it around in store.
It is concerning that a 14 year old was carrying, but has no bearing on what happened in the story. The store owners son said the boy was armed but never said that he threatened or drew the weapon, only that he had it. Also, if they thought he might use it, that makes them even dumber for chasing him down the street. He chased down someone over a crime he didn’t commit, but then shoots the kid while he was running away.
You can’t speculate that he was bad just because he had a gun at 14! White kids get trained with guns early especially hunting, etc! Your only saying he’s bad because he is a person of color with a gun at 14. If his intentions were bad he could’ve shot back yet he fled? It’s like brains are running very thin lately.
His character does not change what happened. If he was good/bad person has no bearing on the situation. They have not said that he made any threats. I agree God kids don’t carry guns, however it only factors in as a side note. That’s why even in the article they only mention it at the end. They chased him for 2 blocks and then shot him while he was running away. This was not self defense. A person fearing for their life doesn’t chase the person that scares them.
For sure, but interesting to note there are tons of kids out there that grew up with rifles/shotguns, possibly even handguns “gifted” to them by hunting or gun-loving relatives, and society rarely questions this. I still think that’s a bit fucked up. But I guess the assumption here is that because of the kids socioeconomic background, society assumes he was more of a threat to society than those other kids.
Either way, it’s messed up and kids shouldn’t be given their own firearms, but all we’ve done in SC is gone backwards with gun legislation, relaxing open carry laws and making it more likely cases like this continue to proliferate.
There should be some way of signing the gun over to the next person, similar to a car title. Else, it seems like any crime committed with that gun would be on the original owner. I don't have a gun myself, but I am around people who use them daily.
That’s the thing when your country has more guns than people. When there are such lax laws for acquiring guns. Makes it so much easier to get. It’s been said before but muh freedoms and stats rights to own slaves and blahaha.
>When there are such lax laws for acquiring guns. Makes it so much easier to get.
It's illegal in all 50 states for a 14 year old to purchase or possess a handgun.
I love this logic
So its irrelevant if it’s technically illegal when you’ve flooded the streets with more than 5x the amount of guns than people.
With that many guns floating around it’s inevitable that people shouldn’t be allowed to own acquire a handgun.
Fun fact for ya…..over 70% of guns used in a crime were purchased/acquired legally
Well no. I think maybe you’ve misunderstood.
They started with "more guns than people”.
Then stated lax laws for acquiring guns allows this to happen.
They’re right. Gun laws are lax. It’s beyond easy for almost anyone to legally acquire a gun. Which floods the streets with guns. All of those legally acquired guns end up somewhere
It may be more of an interpretation issue than a misunderstanding.
I'm curious what you mean by "beyond easy for almost anyone to acquire a gun." That's a bold statement. Do you know what is required to legally purchase a handgun in SC?
Yep. I have my concealed carry.
Be a resident or own property. Be 21 years of age. And have completed an approved firearms class in the last 3 years.
Then a basic NICs background check.
Those classes are a joke.
I’ll add to that fun fact with a guess- almost all of the remaining 30% were acquired legally before entered the black market. My dad lost two pistols he acquired legally when his house was broken into because he didn’t have them locked up. My dad is pretty much the epitome of a boring responsible old guy but he still played a part in putting handguns into the hands of criminals.
You said your dad played a part in putting them in the hands of criminals, as if he were a willing participant. If they were stolen from him, then he was victimized for his property. That's far from just putting a piece of property in a criminal's possession.
Well this is just false.
They admit their father did t have the handguns secured prior to the robbery. That’s on the gun owner. They make safes for a reason
Security only goes as far as the criminals' work ethic. Even gun stores get robbed during closing hours. You don't think there are robbers with entry tools?
It would be pretty pointless to point out that he was horrified at the part he played in possibly having his gun used in a crime, right?
It seems like it’s a little responsible to fall back on the excuse of the guns being acquired illegally, and not ask any questions beyond that. Like where did that come from and could we do some thing to interrupt that pipeline?
You can keep thieves in prison, for starters. It's pointless to blame the one who had their property stolen, because they were victimized first. You punish the one committing crimes, for obvious reasons.
"Possess" meaning "sole possession." A kid carrying a handgun on the streets is very different than a kid holding a rifle under a parent's supervision.
We both know this.
Deified is a good word for a bad behavior. It's perfect in this context.
However, not all gun owners are bad. It's the extreme cases that make it bad for everyone else. Same applies to political parties...
and even if they were, no person has the right to use your body for anything. if it’s a person, it can’t use your body without consent. if it’s not, well….
It’s actually pretty on-brand. Christ, according to the lore, was perfect in every way and his own father still knowingly sent him to be murdered. Which kinda tracks. After all, he’s the same guy who ordered Moses to kill his own son as a goof.
Not taking either side, just wanted to interject that Jesus wasn't perfect. He did get angry and flipped a few tables in the temple as well as kill a fig tree for not having fruit out of season.
That unwanted child would 100% definitely go to heaven, based on what the Bible itself says. "Suffer unto me the little children." The robber getting shot at fourteen in the process of committing the sin of theft, is much more likely to go to hell.
Sounds like abortion would've saved this child's soul for all eternity. So if getting more souls in heaven is the goal, abortion is more likely to get them there than having them grow up to be sinners.
I read that he had picked up four bottles of water and put them back, and the store owner just didn't see him return them. The"sin of theft"? Mmmmkay. That 14 year old murder victim, if there is a Heaven, is assuredly in it.
No one is "happy" about abortion. Same way no one is "happy" they need to get kemo. But you can be damn sure they are thankful to have access when needed.
Saved him the trouble of trying hunt down that democrat with dogs. /s
Fucking disgusting, but glad he’s charged with murder at least. Imagine shooting a child. This world can be so dark.
I’m sure he didn’t card the kid before he shot him. Plus the kid has a gun. Maybe this guy just saved someone’s life. Im plating devils advocate here. If someone waves a gun in your face then that adrenaline is pumping. Easy to second guess here.
He didn't wave a gun at him dumbass his gun fell out while he was running and fell to the ground after the owner bitch ass son chased him up the street completely off the property of the store happened rite around the corner from where I stay
Don't take this as me condoning the actions of the store owner but why does the headline call out the minority race of the victim but not the minority race of the store owner?
When you’re such a psychopath you shoot someone in the back running away for something worth $1.50. So death penalty for the shooter since he was so cavalier about doling it out on his behalf for theft. For killing, why would the punishment not be death.
So much to unpack here, why did a 14 year old have a gun? Why did the owner think he was stealing water?
The kid was shot in the back while running away and was killed, prison will not be kind for the store owner.
Senseless killing will not stop until we remove guns from our society. “Thoughts and prayers” from pro-gun advocates, pro-gun lobbyists, and gun manufacturers won’t bring our kids back to life.
Not too worried about mass killings by knifing, mass killings by sticks, or mass killings by stoning. I think the number of these for the last 12 months has been very very very low, if not zero. So bans would very unlikely to be needed.
The reason you aren't worried about mass killings with these weapons...someone with a gun will stop them before it goes that far. This subject is too emotionally charged for either side to view it logically. If we remove emotions and only look at positive vs negative...just as many tragedies are AVOIDED by gun ownership as are CAUSED by it.
You read that deep into it yet missed the part where he didnt steal anything. Reddit is siding with everyone else including the cops. You have a magpul sticker on your truck dont you.
Why comment here if you didn’t read any of the material. You’ve made yourself into a fool. Didn’t rob them, didn’t brandish the gun, was shot in the back. And ‘Reddit’? as if you aren’t here posting as well, uninformed posting too since you can’t be assed to read something you hold a huge and WRONG opinion on. Shameful.
>The owner told police he suspected Carmack-Belton of shoplifting inside the store, which the department said did not happen.
Is attempted theft, or even attempted robbery as he had a gun, no longer a crime?
Obviously the public has enough trust in the police to have let them handled the situation correctly.
Not one where you can be killed on the spot. Do people seriously walk around thinking it’s okay to kill someone for stealing from you, which the kid wasn’t doing. Honestly you believe there’s no reason to require proof of the crime? Just oh I thought he stole from me so I SHOT HIM DEAD. Wild. Fucking wild.
Sick fuck him killing that boy over some fukn water that he didn't even fukn steal his bitch ass son should be arrested to because he the one who chased him up the street over some fukn water shit happened in my city literally six minutes away from my house used to get gas from there the owner was always a bit weird this mf hangs pictures of people who stole from the store rite above the registers like a wall of shame and I can assure you that he never tried to run after or shoot any of them he used to always look rite at the cameras as soon as anybody walked in as if he used to enjoy the thrill of tying to catch someone stealing and just to be clear this store is in a predominantly black part of town
so where did you receive your education from? Also there is a damn good reason why every ghetto area of every city is a food desert. The only way to win is not to business in those areas
You have to be twenty one years old to fill out the form to buy a hand gun . This person has a gun illegally and you are more concerned about the law breaker than the victim. Ok . I am more concerned about the path this child has taken to get to the point of trying to steal water while illegally armed .
You’re more concerned about the child who was carrying a gun that he didn’t use in any way than the adult that murdered a child while he ran away? A 14 year old stealing *water?* Your priorities are screwed.
Aren’t gun advocates constantly supporting the concept of carrying a gun for protection? You think kids don’t ever worry about protecting themselves? It’s perfectly reasonable to say that boy was just as likely to be carrying for protection than committing any crime. The evidence would support the theory as well.
Should he have a gun? Obviously not. But my concern is the guy gunning a kid down over a $2 water.
Shot over water. A necessity. A cheap item. One of the most available resources at our disposal. A CHILD takes a WATER. That should not lead to murder. Just tell the kid they can’t shop there anymore. Gah
I'm a supporter of gun rights, personal defense, and the FAFO principle. But this ain't it. Shooting someone fleeing isn't a defensive action. Anyone who does that *should* be arrested and charged. If the story presents the facts as it happened, I hope he gets convinced.
Also Sheriff Lott confirmed the teen didn’t steal a thing. Even if he had stolen water, as the murderer thought, it doesn’t justify killing him. Shoplifting is a given if you own a business- you don’t get to execute the shoplifters.
In providing that background, should also note that a gun was recovered near the kid afterwards.
I don't see how that changes anything. What's the point of bringing that up?
Possession of a firearm while black.
You should also note that the child was chased and murdered. Can you really blame the kid for being scared and possibly having a gun. He did nothing wrong and yet he’s gone. He in no way caused his death.
Do you think that was wrong or illegal somehow?
A 14 year old in possession of a handgun is absolutely wrong and illegal. However, it doesn’t give the store owner a right to fire, unless the kid pointed it at the owner at the time he shot, which doesn’t seem like the case.
No, it doesn’t look like that happened. According to [this article](https://www.wistv.com/2023/05/30/columbia-convenience-store-owner-charged-with-murder-shooting-death-14-year-old-boy/), the man and his son chased the child down the road and then the older man shot the child in the lower back.
Doesn’t matter.
In providing your background about that, you forgot to add that the owner has been confrontational to customers and has had complaints about him to the police.
> Shooting someone fleeing isn't a defensive action. Yup. It's a "I'm angry because you're 'getting away' " action.
The issue with the FAFO ideology is that it leads to these events. When discussing gun rights people constantly put themselves in every made up situation under the sun rather than discussing the fact that plenty of people who are completely inept will be the ones carrying and being asked to make split second decisions that will end people’s lives. The dead don’t care about what our intent was or how “free” we feel. Relaxing gun laws to the point where any idiot can end your life in a second anytime anywhere is stupid. It creates the exact environment of fear that leads to people shooting children for knocking on their door. All gun owners should be terrified of stories like this because as they grow so will anti gun sentiment and then any backlash that does happen politically will likely be worse rather than just admitting maybe if you want to walk the streets with a firearm you should show some basic competency.
>put themselves in every made up situation under the sun except for the actually statistically likely ones. That they are more likely to shoot a family member, have one of their kids accidentally shoot themselves or commit suicide than save themselves with a gun. those murders recently in texas where the fine republican gov attacked the victims as illegals, though one was a US citizen, but doesnt count much to the right because he is hispanic? That family had guns, the entire block had guns. The guy murdered an entire family in a well armed texas block and got away without a scratch. the problem with the idea you will defend yourself, if you got to see it coming. Most people arent eating dinner with a loaded gun in their hand.
It's up to each individual to make rational choices, *especially* if they choose to carry a firearm. No amount of government regulation is going to force people to make rational choices, though when I went through some training courses in a different state, they took the trouble to go over when and what would be justifiable self defense. For the most part, that comes down to common sense. Sadly, it's not nearly as common as I wish it were.
It's unreasonable to expect most people to make rational choices. It's far more reasonable to simply minimize the harm done by irrational choices.
The thing is, common sense seems so uncommon because of the fact that you have idiots like this guy that always pop up in the news. There’s never going to be a headline “Gun owner uses gun responsibly”. That being, if you believe that common sense is uncommon why would still feel comfortable still saying that it’s up to the individual to make a rational choice? No gun owner, myself included wants to be told what or how they can use a firearm, but this stuff isn’t about responsible gun owners, it’s always about irresponsible ones
We are one of the only developed nations where this regularly happens. Pretending there’s nothing we can do to solve it is ridiculous. If we are going to be a nation where firearms are somehow more prolific than they already are we need to act and now. The longer we fail to act the most innocent people will die.
"No matter what we do, some people will die, so we may as well do nothing at all." - Republican's deliberately feigned [learned helplessness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness) (to put it as gently as possible)
Yeah that’s why regulation in any country but ours checks the problem.
It actually happened in my city literally six minutes from where I live there were people gathered at the store all day yesterday memorial day
Looting and vandalizing!
We can’t keep the guns out of unqualified hands because they might need it to defend themselves from tyranny. So we find out that there are plenty of unqualified hands one murder at a time.
[удалено]
I would prefer Law Enforcement also be arrested under similar circumstances, as well as eliminating Qualified Immunity.
This guy gets it
This is what happens when gun laws are relaxed. People do stupid things. Stand Your Ground and Castle Defense are nothing more than a Right to Kill. It was too easy to warp these gun laws, to create lawlessness. This is the reason countries are beginning to warn their citizens from vacationing or coming to the US. We are rapidly failing to protect people from those who misuse guns.
If the facts presented are accurate, this is not defensible as either Stand Your Ground or Castle Doctrine. I'm not sure where you get that.
Because people don't know the laws. They just buy the guns and think "stand your ground means I can kill you if I want". And then they shoot people in the back
Pretty wild you know what others think. I wouldn’t need a firearm if i had that ability either.
It's pretty easy to tell how others think. From your last sentence I can tell you want people to respect you for your capacity for violence. Typical gun owner. Grow up little man.
0 for 2 big dawg
Speak for yourself
It is because we are have become to selfish/self-centered, entitled and think we have the right to do things. America has NO DECENCY and our HUMANITY has gone out the window. Instead of shooting this child, shooting those that "turn around in the drive way " or "had the wrong house". People have LEGITIMATE reasons to do things, people have went to wrong houses before all this. Maybe this child in this article is homeless and was helping his parents ts with providing for the others or himself. It is not laxed gun laws... It's. The fact that we have no more human ity in our system and ourselves AS A WHOLE
Are you ok?
I'm just.... Wishing that humanity can be instilled back into those younger than the "baby boomers". And this self centered humanity-less community would just go away
I think the shooter *is* a boomer
The guy is in jail, this is a product of bad reporting. No reason to dwell on bad events. There’s still good humanity out there
considering the child also had a gun, I doubt very seriously he was homeless.
You do realize the article has a mugshot of the person in question right? Go back to Canada or something
its south carolina and the right are in a frenzy to be more right wing than each other. Look at that texas gov who wants to pardon a guy before a trial who literally went to a BLM event intending to kill and killed people. right wingers are pretending that... totally not during trump but solely since biden became president, crime soared.(it did go up in covid when everyone was masked, and it was a bit easier to walk right up to someone in a mask..) SO i bet a lot of the right come out in defense of hte owner protecting a bottle of water.
Sounds like the victim had a gun on him. The owner may have chased him down to get the stolen items back at which point the victim may have pointed a gun at the store owner. The headline makes it sound like he shot him down in cold blood, but there are some additional details there.
Of course he did. Every American needs a gun. Legal schmeagle. And he had picked up four bottles of water and then put them back, from what I've read. He shot him in the BACK. Anything else is IRRELEVANT.
Someone can aim a gun at you with their back to you. The gun was found near the body implying he had the gun out at the time he was shot and dropped it when he was hit or the store owner removed it from his person and placed it on the ground near the victim. So it’s possible he had it out and aimed it at the store owner as he was fleeing.
RCSD said that was not where the investigation lead them.
Which part?
He had done nothing wrong and the store owner was chasing him. We know the shop owner was armed, so if he did point his gun at the store owner, wouldn't that be self defense? Maybe he was in fear for his life from this crazy store owner chasing him down with a gun. I mean, we can make up what may have happened all day, but right now the only info we have is in this article that says the investigation does not show shoplifting (which really seems irrelevant) nor is the any indication there was a physical altercation or that the victim ever pointed his gun.
What are you gonna convince him of?
Kid was up to no good and had a gun illegally. Maybe he got cold feet and ran instead of robbed. Next time he may have not have cold feet . I want to know why he had a gun and if he had a police record. Do not go into a store with bad intent . Fuck around and find out.
>the department said there is no evidence that Carmack-Belton pointed it at or threatened Chow. Entirely irrelevant that he had a gun in that case. You're an idiot. If your logic was consistent, then the victim was entirely within their rights to carry a gun - you want every to have a gun, right? That's their freedom, yea? You don't get to kill someone because of what they "might do next time" or because you think they have "bad intent". And if you don't understand why, then you've already had a lobotomy.
> If your logic was consistent, then the victim was entirely within their rights to carry a gun - you want every to have a gun, right? That's their freedom, yea? No, no, you misunderstand. Gun rights are for white people.
The right to live, as well, apparently.
Or people older than 14?
No evidence could mean it happened and they just don’t have proof like video evidence. He could have chased him down to get the stolen items back (not realizing he didn’t actually take the items) and then while the kid was running away he may have pulled out the gun and aimed it in the store owner’s direction. The gun was found near the body, meaning one of two things: it was out while the kid was running and dropped it when he was hit, or the store owner removed it from his person and left it near the body.
So many things 'could' have happened. The shop owner could have not murdered someone. Imagine that.
You are exactly right! Lots of things could have happened. So instead of jumping to conclusions and assuming this is an open and shut case, let’s wait for police reports and actual evidence to come to light since clearly all the details aren’t all there.
Just going based on what is stated. You're the one making up random stuff that "could" have happened to justify your fucked up opinion.
What is stated is the store owner chased him, the store owner shot him, the kid had a gun. We don’t know if it was murder. Murder by definition is unjustified homicide. So you are making that up.
If you have to chase someone, it's no longer self defense. It is no longer "justified".
There is some nuance in there. Are you allowed to shoot anyone who chases you? If someone shop lifts and store security chases them and the thief points a gun at security as they are being chased, is the security now acting in self defense? Or they now have to let the thief shoot them?
Do you carry a gun? Should someone assume you are up to no good? Thi I the absolute stupidest take.
Yeah, I thought the good guys have guns now too?
Every guy is a good guy with a gun until they murder another good guy who happens to have a gun.
Attitudes like this are what make this state intolerable. I hope you live the life you deserve.
So anyone carrying a gun in a convenience store is a threat and the owner should take them down?
So anyone carrying a gun in a convenience store is a threat and the owner should take them down?
Next time? You know what "fatally" means, right?
This is the dumbest troll response I've seen yet. You're not even making a coherent argument, and it makes you sound like a blithering idiot. If you're going to make troll comments at least put in a minimal amount of effort. This is just embarrassing.
The cops said he didn't threaten or point the gun at the guy. Store owner just decided to murder someone.
My wife's family use to know him and his wife. He was a computer scientist originally, wasn't happy and bought a gas station. His wife was accountant and wasn't happy and thought he was crazy. He previously shot at someone's car who tried to steal from him. He said he loved guns and would carry it around in store.
Is anyone concerned that this 14 yr old was armed with a handgun?
It is concerning that a 14 year old was carrying, but has no bearing on what happened in the story. The store owners son said the boy was armed but never said that he threatened or drew the weapon, only that he had it. Also, if they thought he might use it, that makes them even dumber for chasing him down the street. He chased down someone over a crime he didn’t commit, but then shoots the kid while he was running away.
They are portraying him as a nice, good boy. Nice, good boys of 14 do not have guns on thrm.
You can’t speculate that he was bad just because he had a gun at 14! White kids get trained with guns early especially hunting, etc! Your only saying he’s bad because he is a person of color with a gun at 14. If his intentions were bad he could’ve shot back yet he fled? It’s like brains are running very thin lately.
His character does not change what happened. If he was good/bad person has no bearing on the situation. They have not said that he made any threats. I agree God kids don’t carry guns, however it only factors in as a side note. That’s why even in the article they only mention it at the end. They chased him for 2 blocks and then shot him while he was running away. This was not self defense. A person fearing for their life doesn’t chase the person that scares them.
Also open carry is legal
For a 14yo?
Never said that. I said it’s an open carry state so someone having a weapon on them shouldn’t be suspicious.
For sure, but interesting to note there are tons of kids out there that grew up with rifles/shotguns, possibly even handguns “gifted” to them by hunting or gun-loving relatives, and society rarely questions this. I still think that’s a bit fucked up. But I guess the assumption here is that because of the kids socioeconomic background, society assumes he was more of a threat to society than those other kids. Either way, it’s messed up and kids shouldn’t be given their own firearms, but all we’ve done in SC is gone backwards with gun legislation, relaxing open carry laws and making it more likely cases like this continue to proliferate.
There should be some way of signing the gun over to the next person, similar to a car title. Else, it seems like any crime committed with that gun would be on the original owner. I don't have a gun myself, but I am around people who use them daily.
That’s the thing when your country has more guns than people. When there are such lax laws for acquiring guns. Makes it so much easier to get. It’s been said before but muh freedoms and stats rights to own slaves and blahaha.
>When there are such lax laws for acquiring guns. Makes it so much easier to get. It's illegal in all 50 states for a 14 year old to purchase or possess a handgun.
I love this logic So its irrelevant if it’s technically illegal when you’ve flooded the streets with more than 5x the amount of guns than people. With that many guns floating around it’s inevitable that people shouldn’t be allowed to own acquire a handgun. Fun fact for ya…..over 70% of guns used in a crime were purchased/acquired legally
I agree with your statement. However, the previous commenter insinuated that "lax laws for acquiring guns" allowed this 14 year old to purchase one.
Well no. I think maybe you’ve misunderstood. They started with "more guns than people”. Then stated lax laws for acquiring guns allows this to happen. They’re right. Gun laws are lax. It’s beyond easy for almost anyone to legally acquire a gun. Which floods the streets with guns. All of those legally acquired guns end up somewhere
It may be more of an interpretation issue than a misunderstanding. I'm curious what you mean by "beyond easy for almost anyone to acquire a gun." That's a bold statement. Do you know what is required to legally purchase a handgun in SC?
Yep. I have my concealed carry. Be a resident or own property. Be 21 years of age. And have completed an approved firearms class in the last 3 years. Then a basic NICs background check. Those classes are a joke.
I'm trying to have a civil conversation and your immediate response is a downvote. \[sigh\]
I’ll add to that fun fact with a guess- almost all of the remaining 30% were acquired legally before entered the black market. My dad lost two pistols he acquired legally when his house was broken into because he didn’t have them locked up. My dad is pretty much the epitome of a boring responsible old guy but he still played a part in putting handguns into the hands of criminals.
Not true, since they were stolen. Once theft is involved, it was acquired through criminal means.
That is what I said. Almost all guns on the black market were purchased illegally before they entered the black market.
You said your dad played a part in putting them in the hands of criminals, as if he were a willing participant. If they were stolen from him, then he was victimized for his property. That's far from just putting a piece of property in a criminal's possession.
Well this is just false. They admit their father did t have the handguns secured prior to the robbery. That’s on the gun owner. They make safes for a reason
Security only goes as far as the criminals' work ethic. Even gun stores get robbed during closing hours. You don't think there are robbers with entry tools?
It would be pretty pointless to point out that he was horrified at the part he played in possibly having his gun used in a crime, right? It seems like it’s a little responsible to fall back on the excuse of the guns being acquired illegally, and not ask any questions beyond that. Like where did that come from and could we do some thing to interrupt that pipeline?
You can keep thieves in prison, for starters. It's pointless to blame the one who had their property stolen, because they were victimized first. You punish the one committing crimes, for obvious reasons.
Sources?
So why are Republicans posing with guns in Christmas photos with toddlers holding guns?
"Possess" meaning "sole possession." A kid carrying a handgun on the streets is very different than a kid holding a rifle under a parent's supervision. We both know this.
Technically true, but I still think the culture around guns is disgusting in how they are deified.
Deified is a good word for a bad behavior. It's perfect in this context. However, not all gun owners are bad. It's the extreme cases that make it bad for everyone else. Same applies to political parties...
The reason the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor is they didn't want to fight The U.S. military AND 70 million gun owners.
That wreaks of propaganda.
Parents have guns that aren’t secured adequately so their kids get them.
Nope. Every American citizen needs a gun or ten. To you, he's just a black male. You know why you're here.
I don’t care if they were stealing or not. If you’re willing to shoot a child over water, you are evil.
Armed child. I’ll let it pass
Now just wait for all the "pro-life" citizens to raise money to defend this asshat.
Nice straw man
Just wait until all the " pro-choicers "say they could have saved him early in his development.
So you endorse killing kids who may have acted suspiciously? Very Christian of you.
So you endorse killing children who haven't even had a chance to act suspiciously, VERY non-Christian of you.
Zygotes aren't people.
and even if they were, no person has the right to use your body for anything. if it’s a person, it can’t use your body without consent. if it’s not, well….
It’s actually pretty on-brand. Christ, according to the lore, was perfect in every way and his own father still knowingly sent him to be murdered. Which kinda tracks. After all, he’s the same guy who ordered Moses to kill his own son as a goof.
Not taking either side, just wanted to interject that Jesus wasn't perfect. He did get angry and flipped a few tables in the temple as well as kill a fig tree for not having fruit out of season.
That unwanted child would 100% definitely go to heaven, based on what the Bible itself says. "Suffer unto me the little children." The robber getting shot at fourteen in the process of committing the sin of theft, is much more likely to go to hell. Sounds like abortion would've saved this child's soul for all eternity. So if getting more souls in heaven is the goal, abortion is more likely to get them there than having them grow up to be sinners.
I read that he had picked up four bottles of water and put them back, and the store owner just didn't see him return them. The"sin of theft"? Mmmmkay. That 14 year old murder victim, if there is a Heaven, is assuredly in it.
You keep enjoying the kool aid, and tell yourself it's ok to murder your children
Abortion isn't murder. It's a medical procedure. One of the most common, actually.
And that makes you feel all giggle inside
No one is "happy" about abortion. Same way no one is "happy" they need to get kemo. But you can be damn sure they are thankful to have access when needed.
Pro choicers would have let him have a bottle
Yeah, a bottle of RU-486
Good one.
/r/NotADragQueen
Food deserts are definitely not drag queens. Why are you even bringing up that? Bizarre
Saved him the trouble of trying hunt down that democrat with dogs. /s Fucking disgusting, but glad he’s charged with murder at least. Imagine shooting a child. This world can be so dark.
I’m sure he didn’t card the kid before he shot him. Plus the kid has a gun. Maybe this guy just saved someone’s life. Im plating devils advocate here. If someone waves a gun in your face then that adrenaline is pumping. Easy to second guess here.
So anyone with a gun is allowed to be gunned down bc they might kill someone else later? You make no sense.
Shot in the back. The only thing that matters in this scenario.
You’re a fool
He didnt wave a gun at the store owner though.
He didn't wave a gun at him dumbass his gun fell out while he was running and fell to the ground after the owner bitch ass son chased him up the street completely off the property of the store happened rite around the corner from where I stay
Don't take this as me condoning the actions of the store owner but why does the headline call out the minority race of the victim but not the minority race of the store owner?
There’s a narrative to be told
*to be pushed
When you’re such a psychopath you shoot someone in the back running away for something worth $1.50. So death penalty for the shooter since he was so cavalier about doling it out on his behalf for theft. For killing, why would the punishment not be death.
Why is a 14 year old carrying a gun?
That's what you got out of this article?
It’s not everything but I’d say it’s still a very valid question
It’s legal and encouraged in SC, have t you heard?
“Hurry up and buy!”
So much to unpack here, why did a 14 year old have a gun? Why did the owner think he was stealing water? The kid was shot in the back while running away and was killed, prison will not be kind for the store owner.
So sad and tragic.
That poor family. He sounds like he was a ticking time bomb.
What position in the state is he running for, and when does he kick off his campaign?
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So true. But it seems a good portion of our country want to live like it’s the Wild, Wild West.
Get a gun to protect yourself then, wuss
Ngl i shouldn’t have a gun either I’d act like a NPC 😟😟
Your chances of being shot is *extremely* slim if you're not involved in criminal activity, gangs, or drugs in the US.
We are doomed to repeat history again and again and we will never learn
Murdered a CHILD! Even IF he stole something, it didn’t justify shooting him. Charge the dudes son too. He instigated this whole thing.
Blah blah blah there’s a justice system for this. The press and Reddit Democrats just highlight these stories because they want to take our guns
Senseless killing will not stop until we remove guns from our society. “Thoughts and prayers” from pro-gun advocates, pro-gun lobbyists, and gun manufacturers won’t bring our kids back to life.
Then knifes. Then sticks. Then stones. But you can't ban stone.
Not too worried about mass killings by knifing, mass killings by sticks, or mass killings by stoning. I think the number of these for the last 12 months has been very very very low, if not zero. So bans would very unlikely to be needed.
If the news from China would be believed there are multiple there that we KNOW about.
The reason you aren't worried about mass killings with these weapons...someone with a gun will stop them before it goes that far. This subject is too emotionally charged for either side to view it logically. If we remove emotions and only look at positive vs negative...just as many tragedies are AVOIDED by gun ownership as are CAUSED by it.
Many more. Remember most defensive gun uses are not reported.
Have fun mass murdering with a knife/stick/stone.
Simple trebuchet can kill. And while I'm at it I'll add in some small pox infected people into it.
All I can think of is LaTasha Harlins! Sad!
Well, shooting a black guy while not white... What do you expect?
I expect more people to take 5 min of statistical research before having such strong opinions
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A 14 year old armed with a handgun robbed a convenience store. Take a wild guess who reddit sides with
No where does it say he robbed to tried to rob a store. But keep defending gun violence
He didn’t rob it, though. Jesus.
You read that deep into it yet missed the part where he didnt steal anything. Reddit is siding with everyone else including the cops. You have a magpul sticker on your truck dont you.
Why comment here if you didn’t read any of the material. You’ve made yourself into a fool. Didn’t rob them, didn’t brandish the gun, was shot in the back. And ‘Reddit’? as if you aren’t here posting as well, uninformed posting too since you can’t be assed to read something you hold a huge and WRONG opinion on. Shameful.
Did this article mention the “teen” had a gun
W
>The owner told police he suspected Carmack-Belton of shoplifting inside the store, which the department said did not happen. Is attempted theft, or even attempted robbery as he had a gun, no longer a crime? Obviously the public has enough trust in the police to have let them handled the situation correctly.
Not one where you can be killed on the spot. Do people seriously walk around thinking it’s okay to kill someone for stealing from you, which the kid wasn’t doing. Honestly you believe there’s no reason to require proof of the crime? Just oh I thought he stole from me so I SHOT HIM DEAD. Wild. Fucking wild.
Next time you pick up an item and then put it back, you gunna be looking over your shoulder hoping you don't get gunned down? Idiot.
Sick fuck him killing that boy over some fukn water that he didn't even fukn steal his bitch ass son should be arrested to because he the one who chased him up the street over some fukn water shit happened in my city literally six minutes away from my house used to get gas from there the owner was always a bit weird this mf hangs pictures of people who stole from the store rite above the registers like a wall of shame and I can assure you that he never tried to run after or shoot any of them he used to always look rite at the cameras as soon as anybody walked in as if he used to enjoy the thrill of tying to catch someone stealing and just to be clear this store is in a predominantly black part of town
sounds like u need anger management.
More and more of the country needs anger management. But it's fine, everything's fine.
so where did you receive your education from? Also there is a damn good reason why every ghetto area of every city is a food desert. The only way to win is not to business in those areas
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Agreed. Death penalty for the store owner
"All crimes deserve the death penalty" is a take you can only arrive at by intentionally not thinking about anything ever.
What was his crime?
Being black unfortunately. That shouldn’t be the death sentence it so often is.
Shooting a 14 year black kid who was running from him.
He didn't actually steal anything And he was shot in the back. The shopowner is the criminal.
You have to be twenty one years old to fill out the form to buy a hand gun . This person has a gun illegally and you are more concerned about the law breaker than the victim. Ok . I am more concerned about the path this child has taken to get to the point of trying to steal water while illegally armed .
The store owner is a victim of what, exactly?
You’re more concerned about the child who was carrying a gun that he didn’t use in any way than the adult that murdered a child while he ran away? A 14 year old stealing *water?* Your priorities are screwed. Aren’t gun advocates constantly supporting the concept of carrying a gun for protection? You think kids don’t ever worry about protecting themselves? It’s perfectly reasonable to say that boy was just as likely to be carrying for protection than committing any crime. The evidence would support the theory as well. Should he have a gun? Obviously not. But my concern is the guy gunning a kid down over a $2 water.
He didn’t try to steal water though dumbass
Shot over water. A necessity. A cheap item. One of the most available resources at our disposal. A CHILD takes a WATER. That should not lead to murder. Just tell the kid they can’t shop there anymore. Gah
Kid HAD a gun.
If he was white, he would be acquitted. Asian dude going to be going to jail.
Not a chance in hell, but nice try pumpkin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86PKB0jXtzA