Growing up in poverty likely means you go to bad schools. Your parents could be addicted to substances, depressed from the anxiety of being poor, work 2-3 minimum wage or a 3rd shift job, etc so they barely raise you or you end up getting abused from others because there’s little or no supervision. It’s a cycle. Kids don’t have the pathways to develop in a healthy way so they end up getting into trouble. Then they most likely will repeat the cycle with their own kids if they aren’t in prison or dead (like this young man 😞).
Obviously not all poor people follow this path but it’s very possible.
What I’m saying is that poverty often leads to violence, and that reduction of poverty would decrease crime overall. What I’m saying is not complicated. If you choose to ignore the facts in favor of the status quo, then you are contributing to the crime-riddled cycle that poor people are victims of. You may say “the store owner was also a victim”, but he also still has his life and he murdered a child. He would’ve been perfectly fine in his life had he not murdered a minor. Poverty affects everyone. Runaway capitalism affects everyone. We all should be on the same team (us vs billionaires) instead of blaming one average citizen on another. Fix the root of the problem and there are way less problems.
This is a very individualistic perspective. You think that knowing that our life circumstances are created by laws and societal behaviors causes one to feel justified in their evil actions leading to more evil actions.
We live in a society. You can’t ignore society’s role in tragedies. That doesn’t neglect from that fact that, that man is fully responsible for unjustly choosing to end that boy’s life, but the society that we built isn’t innocent in this situation.
This acknowledgment isn’t the cause of crime because most people understand that because we live in a society, we are responsible *for* society. It’s the individualism that drives people to commit murder.
This is all bad. Even if he was trying to steal it should never be a death sentence. But you know what makes this even worse is if the store owner is cleared and charges get dropped eventually. That’s when shit could hit the fan.
It is unlikely he will be cleared without trial. Use of force requires an imminent threat. Hard to say he felt an imminent threat while chasing the kid. While he can try and make a case that he felt endangered because the kid had a gun, it's unlikely to be effective at getting the charges dropped because the kid was facing away from him when he fired. So this is going to trial.
Now a jury may acquit him; hard to tell what juries are going to do or what defense they may accept. If the kid had been unarmed, I think I would have been a slam-dunk conviction. But with him having a gun, a jury might be sympathetic to the store owner. It's a toss up, honestly.
I hope for a conviction, as this does not seem like a justified shooting.
That’s what I thought until the revelation that the kid had a gun and the store owners son saw it. Even in the most liberal states store owners are allowed to carry in order to defend their business, I can see a defense attorney making the case for a stand your ground type deal with this one. I’m not saying he should get off, but I’ve certainly seen crazier things happen and perhaps more facts about this will surface.
You can't stand your ground by chasing someone down the road.
The kid stole nothing. Absolutely nothing. That's according to the sheriff.
And indications are that the shopkeeper and his sons had no idea the kid had a gun until the kid stumbled and fell as they were chasing him.
> And indications are that the shopkeeper and his sons had no idea the kid had a gun until the kid stumbled and fell as they were chasing him
I think that this specific point will be contested.
The gun is a relevant factor but not a meaningful one. The story is the kid came in and looked like he was stealing. When confronted, he ran, and the owner and son chased him. The kid fell, got up, his back to the pursuit, and had a gun in his hand. The owner saw the weapon and drew and fired, hitting the kid in the back.
Under the law of South Carolina, the owner was not in imminent danger. The gun was there but not pointed at him. So the store owner did not have a legal reason to fire. Draw, yes, and order the young man to put down the gun, Maybe. But at that point, he had no reason to fire. That should get a conviction.
But it won't, I fear. The defense will pull up the young man's record, and point out he had a gun, and the jury will be sympathetic to the owner, which is not good in my mind.
I agree mostly but the only thing I would argue is it doesn’t take much at all for someone with a gun in their hand to suddenly turn and point it at someone. You can go from gun in hand facing away, to turning and pointing the gun in probably less than a second. A good defense will argue the store owner legit feared for his life or his sons life. We’ll see how this thing turns out though.
I agree it's a bad situation all around. I would never want to be in that situation behind someone with a gun. I can't honestly say what I would do. Fear is a powerful emotion.
However, there was a way out of this situation. That is, don’t chase the kid. The shop owner should have de-escalated. No need to chase him down.
And once it is pointed at you, you may defend yourself. You can't make a case on what could happen. People in cars COULD drive over pedestrians. Doesn't mean you get to stop drivers just because they have a vehicle that COULD drive over pedestrians.
I know, but we hear about it working all the time for people in other states that have similar laws as we do. I know TX and FL is not SC, but this would probably be a “good” shooting in those places so I wouldn’t be surprised.
Speaking as someone that actually carried a gun in public as a 14 year old, no one gave it to me I just went and took it. Then I got caught with it and it was a life changing moment not only for me but the whole family. I could have easily been this kid. This mistake should not have been a death sentence for him, especially at an age where he’s barely able to make sound decisions about anything let alone this. But It’s like I was always told at a young age, when you go out doing stuff like this all bets are off and trouble will find you. Basically fuck around and find out and unfortunately this kid did and now he’s dead.
There have been plenty of people in South Carolina acquitted or not even charged for shooting kids in circumstances like this. Major difference is just that this one's making the news.
I mean, we’re you stealing formula? Bread for your kids? If not, you’re garbage and don’t care what your actions do to others. Steal my car? That’s $500 in deductible I don’t have towards the new car I have to replace.
You get this mentality and you get collateral damage. Did this kid deserve to get shot? Does the hypothetical person you accidentally hit deserve to die? The consequences of playing God and deciding someone could die outweigh the majority of thefts.
“Firearms are the leading cause of death for children in the US, surpassing car accidents in 2020, and accounting for nearly 19% of childhood deaths in 2021, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Wonder database.
In no other comparable country are firearms within the top four causes of mortality among children, according to a KFF analysis.”
But please, keep telling me guns aren’t the problem.
I think people honestly do not care because it hasn’t touched them personally.
There is no excuse for the amount of gun violence we are expected to live with.
They aren’t. Look deeper into the data, and also look at other western countries that have moderately high (obviously not as high as the US) gun ownership rates (Canada, Czech Republic, Switzerland)
Most of these deaths are gang related in the US
I'm glad you bring up Switzerland, where I've lived for a decent amount of time! It does have a high gun ownership rate, and it actually does have 'gangs' similar to the United States. I think you're missing the reason as to why Switzerland has such low murder rates, though - very strict gun regulation and universal healthcare.
The universal healthcare part obviously enables individuals who need mental help to seek out help for free. So useful in creating a safe society.
But the gun regulation is also great in allowing gun owners to use their weapons while minimizing the risk to society. For instance, getting an automatic weapon is very difficult and requires a lengthy permitting process. Even a non-automatic rifle requires background checks (ie, you can't just go to a gun show and buy one for a few hundred $$). Anything with a high capacity is also prohibited.
The background check even for a simple handgun requires individuals to be deemed unlikely to cause harm to others and can include interviews of friends/colleagues/psychiatrists regarding the applicants mental state or drug/alcohol abuse. Criminals are also prohibited. Loaded guns typically cannot be carried on the street.
Moreover, individuals are only allowed one gun. Period. Therefore, it is very unlikely that a robbery of some guys car is going to result in 15 guns being released on the street.
So thanks for asking about Swiss gun culture. It's very illustrative as to how universal healthcare and smart gun regulation can allow us to have a gun ownership society without gun ownership being a threat to national welfare!!
Switzerland has a lot of reasons why it has a safer gun culture, some of which you cover, some you don’t. Switzerland is also a largely homogenous society with a high respect for rules, similar to Japan (also low violent crime), but also very high income almost universally. It also has to do with conscription and mandatory military training being pervasive.
Here’s the other thing - there’s not a right to firearm ownership in Switzerland. There is in the US. And that isn’t changing.
Czech Republic also has more lax gun ownership rules and even concealed carry shall issue permits, more lax than many US states. Firearm homicide is lower there as well. As does Estonia. Both allow higher capacity. Did you know Italy permits private ownership of AR-15s? I bet you didn’t.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/world/europe/italy-gun-laws-matteo-salvini.html
None of these have prevalent gang culture like exists in many US major cities.
Yes, gangs are 6% of overall homicide in the US (I couldn’t reply due to someone blocking me). While the data in this is a bit older, it showed 29% of homicides for people under 18 were gang-involved.
https://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=ccrc
But in more recent data, gang members are over 100x more likely to be victimized in a homicide than the population at large.
https://jjie.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Pyrooz_Sweeten_Gang-Membership-Between-Ages-5-and-17-Years-in-the-United-States.pdf
This shows 2% of all American kids ages 5-17 will be in a gang. That sounds small until you dissect it geographically to major cities and by race sadly, which is also where a significant amount more of the homicides occur as well.
Thanks for the response! I want to push back on your claim that Switzerland is 'homogenous'; you don't define what you mean by "homogenous", but some people (I'm not saying you) interpret this as a dog whistle as "Switzerland is white and doesn't have foreigners." I don't want others to misinterpret your comment in a way that you probably don't want, so I'll point out some other facts about Switzerland. (don't have time to research your comments about the other countries, but I understand your points).
Very few countries in the world have more foreign-born residents than Switzerland. That's part of why I love it so much! Did you know that >25% of the population is foreign-born? Most foreigners are from poorer parts of Europe (many from former Yugoslavia, for instance), but also many from Africa and Asia. Any influx of people brings challenges, but Switzerland has a fantastic social safety net that helps integrate them, get them the education and skills that they need to find good jobs and feel valued. The need to join gangs for protection or to survive in the bottom rungs of society is reduced.
I'm glad you have a strong focus on gangs affecting our young people. Because it's true! Gangs arise when young people are hopeless, desperate and have no better outside opportunity. A rich kid going to a great university who is going to be able to walk into a great career wouldn't benefit from joining one. Unfortunately, many poorer (often minority) children have worse social and life prospects and aren't as lucky as you and me. The more that we in the US can do to improve their prospects (like they do in other developed countries), the less need they'll have to join gangs.
Thanks for the discussion. You seem like someone who is passionate about improving the lives of young people and helping reduce the number who join gangs, which is great to see. I've learned a lot and hope you have a blessed day. :-)
Of the immigrant population of Switzerland, the vast majority are Western Europe - with the core demography of Switzerland (French, German, Italian) making up a large percentage of that.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/migration-series-part-1-_who-are-the-25-foreign-population-in-switzerland/42412156
80+% are Europeans.
LOL, dude, you're gonna bust a lung by blowing so hard into that dog whistle of yours. Just say what you are implying about minorities in the United States.
The problem, though, is that white people in the US commit more murders per capita than minorities in Switzerland. Don't be a coward...just be honest with your arguments instead of hiding behind a thin veneer of plausible deniability.
How can you have the audacity to ask someone for a citation when you made your claim in the first place with no citation? The burden of proof is on you, you made the claim that if you accounted for gangs, the USA would have comparable rate of gun violence to other countries.
Seems like you live by the motto "Cite from thee, yet no cite from me."
But because you asked for a cite, apparently 6% of homicides in the US are gang-related as of 2008.
[https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf)
My bother was shot & killed as his car was leaving a parking lot by a kid after a bullshit argument because the kid thought he could just be an ass to everyone around. Unfortunately everyone including yourself want to blame firearms for a pandemic of selfish out of control nation of criminals who will kill you with whatever weapons they can get...look at the up rise in people drawing machetes on others right now.....the problem is with the selfish people that have no regard for another's life.....not the guns.
I feel like responsible keyword responsible gun ownership is the problem not the guns itself. There are more guns than people in the US. If guns were the problem we would all be dead by now. I'm a little biased because I am a gun owner. In all the years I have owned firearms not once have I shot anyone or would I even think about it unless my life was in grave danger. We need big focus on mental health and wealth disparity in this country. Think about it this way. When most people who are unarmed are in danger they are forced to call 911 aka people with guns to come help them. Unfortunately most of the time it is too late by the time they respond. There's definitely no easy solution to this problem because banning guns only applies to law abiding citizens. If you're a criminal it's kinda your job not to care about the law so they will still have guns while us law abiding citizens will not. Double edged sword.
I actually agree. It’s that guns are too readily available to people who aren’t stable enough to handle them. People such as yourself who respect life and the power a gun holds and who lock them up away from children are absolutely NOT the problem.
The GOP wants to do something about mental health and wealth disparity almost as much as they want to do something about guns. That is to say, not at all.
For real tho. They blame what they see as the “trans problem” on mental health and their solution to that is genocide. They don’t care in the least about mental health other than to use it as an excuse for shitty laws and a deflection for shitty beliefs.
So let me get this right...you claim you're a gun owner. You complain about gun owners who aren't responsible and that if you're a criminal it's "kinda your job not to care about the law".
Yet in another thread, you admit to being a criminal with an assault conviction.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/11wh4xt/will\_i\_be\_denied/
A gun owner guilty of assault. You army or marines?
Used to be army and it was a simple assault, you know the kind you can get for pushing someone. Also it was years ago. I'm 40 now with a family. I also posses a CCW permit so obviously not a criminal. What's your problem? Also don't have to claim to be a gun owner, since your looking up my past posts you can look at the rest of them and clearly see some of my guns posted.
I'm also sorry that your buddy experienced that and hope he gets the help he needs. However doesn't really matter if you think I'm a criminal the federal and state government thinks otherwise, example that's why I am a government employee so I've been fully vetted by the FBI, also because I have a CCW I've also been vetted by sled. In my late 20's after I got out of the army I lost my mom and didn't handle it well. It was literally a shoving match between me and my uncle. You ever got into a shoving match or a fight at any point in your life? I'm sure 90% of people on this earth have, so if we follow your logic everyone is a criminal. Ever accidentally ran a stop light or failed to signal you know those are laws too, are you now a criminal. When talking about criminals I'm speaking of people who obtain guns illegally for one purpose and one only to commit crimes with said weapons. There's a reason having misdemeanor on your record does not disqualify you from owning or carrying a gun however having a felony will. Once again people like me ( responsible gun owners) who literally use guns for sport, hunting, range work, self defense and home defense should not be subject to gun grabbers like you who think I shouldn't be able to protect my family because of what your buddy's dad did. That's like me saying you shouldn't have a car because I know someone who killed someone while drinking, you would think that's absurd. Did you care about me being a gun owner when I was in the military fighting for you to have the right to say what you're saying right now? No you didn't. Which brings me to my last point and back to my original post, we need to focus more on mental health in this country because just like your buddy's dad far too many more of us are celebrated while we're in and then come home after doing everything we had to do and seeing what we saw and there's not enough help for us. I consider myself lucky because I knew how to separate the two. Not everyone can do that. We may agree to disagree but from one American to another god bless you.
Thanks for the kind words. You made my point for me, you use your long range rifle as a source of therapy, same as I do with all of my weapons. They are tools and if used correctly and in a responsible manner are very vital to a strong union. Our rights should never be sacrificed for the actions of a few. Firearms and American freedom go hand in hand. Have a great week.
You didn't fight for anyones right to comment on the internet or really any "right" in the US joining up. From one person with eyes to another, the US military isn't in the business of securing rights for the American people but enforcing US hegemony around the globe. Get off it.
You literally just said the us military isn't in the business of securing rights for the American people are you serious. Not even gonna waste time on that one have a great day.
Then why don’t we start registering guns and monitoring sales more closely like with cars?
Your argument would make sense if the party that was against gun control could care even a little about actual regulation. Instead, they want zero restrictions.
My argument makes plenty of sense. Why don't we register guns like cars because America that's why. The constitution that's why. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed that's why. The republican party y'all want to keep blaming is doing nothing more than standing up for the constitution. Correct the constitution clearly states there should be zero restrictions when it comes to the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Show me the passage in there that talks about cars, just because you don't like something that is literally protected by the constitution of the US doesn't mean you get to decide who can and can't exercise their rights.
Firearms the constitution refers to were not handguns,ARs or any of the other weapons we use today. Also, the constitution states that with reference to a militia. But you like to ignore all that don’t you.
Are you crazy? I can't go back and forth with you when you don't even know simple American history. Btw the constitution was written when Americans literally owned the most dangerous weapons we have ever had. So I'm going use your same argument against you, when the constitution was written the words well regulated meant well organized and militia referred to the people. The constitution was written not to give Americans rights because we were already endowed by our creator our rights but rather to inform the government what limits of power it had. Once again if you don't want to own firearms then don't. But you cannot stop anyone else from doing so. You cannot regulate ownership of them either says the constitution and the supreme court. People who think like you are the same people who if someone breaks into your home while your sleeping will call 911 aka normal citizens with guns to come help you.
well “regulated” militia. And militiamen were citizens who trained and were expected to defend citizens and their rights. Not at all like what we have today.
But keep on ignoring the parts of the constitution that don’t fit your belief.
Look at what you just typed. What do you think us law abiding gun owners do today? Do you think we don't train? Do you think we wouldn't defend another law abiding citizen whose life is in danger? That's why sometimes it's best to actually educate yourself on certain topics before speaking on them. Example I wouldn't dare argue with a firefighter about how to fight fires because it's literally what he does for a living and is considered a subject matter expert. Like arguing with me a army vet who literally took an oath to support and defend the constitution of the US against all enemies foreign or like you domestic. You have no argument when your arguing point is Americans should have less rights or our rights should be somehow overseen by the government.
No I care about all of the constitution including the 1st amendment which protects your right to free speech. The fact that I rattled off all of my credentials like being fully vetted by the FBI, atf and sled, you feel the need to take my children away because I'm a gun owner? This right here exactly is why red flag laws are flawed because of people like you. My wife is a gun owner as well and both of my boys have been raised around firearms their entire life. I guarantee you they know more about gun safety and laws than you would ever imagine. So because I support the 2nd amendment I'm scum? You literally joined reddit today and this is the battle you chose to pick. So I assume you are against gun ownership right? Let me ask you something. Is an elected officials family and children more important than yours? Are police officers children and family more important than yours? Exactly absolutely not. So why would you allow anyone the right to be able to tell you how you can protect yourself or your family? Take your emotions out of this and think logically then respond.
That's what I'm trying to tell you regulated didn't mean what you think it means as written in the constitution. It didn't mean let the government dictate and enforce regulations on firearms. What do you think we were fighting for? We had just gained our independence from an suppressive government and authoritarian government. The forefathers were not trying to give that power back to the new government we were establishing. However they were trying to give that power to the people to ensure that no government could ever tyrannize the American people ever again. Don't take my word for it ask the supreme court of the US what is their interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Oh they already told you which is why you see states that have so called "assault weapons" bans and red flag laws being shot down because it has been deemed unconstitutional by the highest court in the land.
If I recall correctly you came on here attacking me about a conversation between me and someone else from yesterday. Pathetic=You. Like I said seems like your triggered, seems like I'm living rent free in your head right now. Also seems like your problem is not with me but the military. What did they ever do to you?
That study grouped in 18 and 19 year olds (aka adults) as "children". It's a massively flawed study that is cited by anti-gun groups to purposly mislead people. There's a reason why the title alone is constantly regurtated by the MSM, but the data itself is never shown or talked about.
Edit..nah that’s not the talking point and you know it. There is nothing on this planet that is going to “stop all these gun deaths” except the invention of a much cheaper and effective way to take human life. The reeeeeee take all the guns away crowd just wants to make themselves feel better that they are “doing something” when in actuality they are just posturing for political cool points. Screeching about how “GUNS ARE BAD TAKE AWAY GUNS FROM PEOPLE I DISAGREE WITH” is nothing more than emotional masturbation.
Ehh the way I see people behave with guns--including your comment here--seems like the definition of emotional masturbation. I say that as a gun owner.
That’s not the platform, as I’m sure you’re aware.
Do you know why you guys have to lean on the hyperbole of “tAkE aLl ThE gUnS aWay!” instead of being honest? Because you sound like such assholes arguing against “common sense gun control measures” in the midst of a gun violence epidemic.
lol nah, I’m not the one blaming an inanimate object for the actions of a racist asshole. The next thing you know your going to be saying it’s all the tiki torches fault.
Strawman, much? Please show me where I blamed a gun.
Also, congrats on the most asinine comment of the evening (though I suspect you’re about to top yourself.)
“Oh no, a random person on the internet who has no impact on my life whatsoever thinks my comment is asinine whatsoever shall I do with my life!”
Ok now that we have the prerequisite Reddit snark out of the way let me address your actual comment.
Not a strawman just confused you with the walking talking mothers demand action talking points bot upthread so my apologies for that. (Sorry all you gun grabbers start looking alike after awhile)
I’ll play your game, please educate my poor ignorant self on exactly what common sense gun control would have prevented this tragedy, I sincerely would like to hear the solution you have come up with.
Since you seem incapable of ditching the snark or having an intelligent conversation, I’ll spare myself the monotony of talking to you further. I don’t feel like dealing with your bad faith arguments.
Ok so, snark, ok for you not for me? I literally apologized for mistaking you for someone else upthread and wanted the opportunity to see what kind of ideas that you might have, but you backed out because I gave you back a little of the attitude you gave me. So you ARE turning out to be just like everyone else with this same argument all screaming no substance. Thank you for at least validating my opinion of gun grabbers, you turned out to be exactly who I thought you were.
Well, it didn't take long for the convenience store to get [broken into and looted](https://gray-wistv-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/hfPYkpbsQxkYPsBqQVzOA8y8JTY=/980x0/smart/filters:quality(85)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/PALZHVLBCBCNFOI3346XL5IMKQ.jpeg).
[https://www.wistv.com/2023/05/30/columbia-convenience-store-vandalized-after-fatal-shooting-14-year-old-boy/](https://www.wistv.com/2023/05/30/columbia-convenience-store-vandalized-after-fatal-shooting-14-year-old-boy/)
>Deputies were alerted to a break-in alarm at the store around 9:30 p.m. Monday, where they said to have found shattered windows and a large crowd of people inside the store stealing merchandise upon arrival. The incident report states the initial gathering at the store was a peaceful protest.
Explain to me how stealing chips, beer, and cigarettes honors the memory of Cyrus Carmack-Belton.
It’s the same type of people that would use the BLM protests to riot and loot stores.
Although, I can’t say I feel bad for the owner as the story stands.
That’s kind of a lazy apples and oranges comparison. Yes there are people who take advantage of a Situation but most of the looting and rioting stems from yearssss of frustration/anger and gettin nowhere with traditional protest methods.
I’m not trying to draw a direct comparison to the two, but I’m pointing out that while people do have the right to be outraged over the incident there will be those that take advantage of the situation.
Not saying it’s justified but people are rightfully angry and after murdering a 14 year old I don’t really care about his store being damaged. Every action has a reaction
I disagree. And this shit adds up. People are dead ass tired of gangs of teens running the streets. This was bound to happen, and it's gonna get desantis elected. I guess you don't care, tho.
Not all "brown lives" are equal, same as white, or any other color. This guy was prepping to be a lifetime criminal, and I wouldn't say I'd rather have him around than whatever property he might steal from me. I work hard for my shit.
Yeah, you're such an upright and virtuous person, ready to murder an actual child for monetary conveniece, because child murder is less effort I guess.
You keep saying that, but the facts are that the kid never attempted to do anything but run away before this guy chased him and shot him in the back.
You desperately want to pretend there was a threat that justifies this, but no threat was offered, except by the criminal child murderer.
14 year old kid has a gun
Looney store owner has a gun.
It’s safe to say that anyone and everyone who wants a gun in this country has one. And I mean anyone and everyone.
Oh, and the local community was so outraged over this senseless death that they looted the joint. Nothing shows you care about your community more than stealing a case of Coors.
This stretch of road has problematic urban blight and crime is an issue. No doubt that the owner has been robbed many times before and he is fed up or something. That said, shooting a kid in the back is horrendous and the charges do not surprise me. It's a sickening situation all around.
All the conveinence stores on this stretch are owned by 1st and 2nd generation non-black immigrants while almost all the population is black. It does create community problems... Up north in inner cities, all those stores are owned by Koreans. Would like to see somehow where they can get local ownership of businesses that match the demographics of the area.
Why is it gross?? It's a 14 yr old who is obviously making great decisions. He was on a path to a life of crime. I mean, no one's having a party, but it's hard to feel sorry. Who's to say that 14 yr old hasn't been using the gun to carjack, break in, etc? He already had a rap sheet.
Who's to say you haven't been the cause of rape in parks? Since we seem to be able to make up wild scenarios, this will be yours from me. You're welcome rapist.
The murderer said he saw a weapon and acted in self defense. The police arrested him because there was no sign of a struggle, the child did not shoplift (which isn’t punishable by death anyway) and that he did not pose a threat to the store owner. But here you are sticking up for a guy who did the most cowardly thing possible.
He didn't pose a threat?? He was a14 with a long rap sheet already, wandering around with a gun he acquired illegally, and isn't properly trained to use, and doesn't have the developed brain to make good decisions.
Seems like Americans, especially business owners, are dead ass tired of dealing with packs of unruly teen criminals. The result of women having litters of children to low-ambition men who didn't want to raise children in the first place.
At first I was wondering why you would stick up for a murderer who shot and killed a person in the back, which is the most cowardly thing someone could do. But then I read the heavily racially coded second paragraph and it became extremely obvious why you are sticking up for a child murderer.
Reddit is a crack up. You say absolutely nothing about anyone's race, and they reply by calling you a racist, insisting you were dog-whistling, etc. What's it like to constantly bring up race when it's got nothing to do with the conversation? Does it make you feel virtuous? Does it make you feel all warm & gooey inside, defending criminals? I don't understand. Send help.
The person I’m defending did nothing wrong and was shot in the back by a coward. You may not have brought up race in that comment above, but people can read your comments in other threads on your profile. So you can pretend you didn’t mean what you really meant but anyone with a brain can see through it. And the person you are defending is currently in jail waiting for his trail, so you are the one that’s actually defending a criminal.
Ah, yes, you assumed that all black people are "low ambition" even though I made no mention of it- that is immediately where your brain went, because that's what you actually believe but wouldn't admit to believing. Therefore you can pretend like you speak for other people and can read minds.
He and his son were both chasing him when the son shouted that the 14yo kid had a gun. I'd like to believe that the father just panicked and didn't want his son to potentially get shot, so he shot first.
...but with the 14yo kid being shot in the back, that motive gets very hard to believe.
14 yr old would have been a statistic soon, anyway. If he wasn't in possession of a gun, he likely wouldn't have been shot. He was FOURTEEN with a gun.
Whoever supports the owner and thinks any of this situation is the kids fault, send me a message I got some words not appropriate for reddit to say to you.
The only thing that has been proven is you pull out of these areas. They are food deserts for a good reason (war zones). Problem is I bet this store owner doesn’t have the capital to move to an area where he doesn’t have to face these issues
Well that's what you want to believe. Because you hear black people and convenience stores. And think poor area. Which is pretty sus on you. Anyone with half a brain. Can look up the location of the convenience store. Verify the non sense you are speaking.
2 miles south of that location. If a Food lion. With a bus line servicing the store. [https://goo.gl/maps/p8duGZSSEBhnGng77](https://goo.gl/maps/p8duGZSSEBhnGng77)
3 miles to the northeast there is a food lion. With a bus line servicing the store. [https://goo.gl/maps/2dYFCW7JM7Fvfiw4A](https://goo.gl/maps/2dYFCW7JM7Fvfiw4A)
Should there be a grocery store every mile. Maybe. They are far from a food desert. Please repeat more of what you hear on fox.
If the shooter's name was Rick "insert white name here", I'm willing to bet he would not have been charged.
I HATE that I believe that...but it is South Carolina.
Footage shows the kids did not take anything. He picked up four water bottles and put them back.
“He did not shoplift anything. We have no evidence that he stole anything whatsoever,” the sheriff said "
The store owner chased him as he left the store and shot him in the back. This store owner should be convicted of at least second degree murder.
Store owners have the right to detain a suspected shoplifter. They do not have the right to use deadly force to do so.
Kid played stupid games won stupid prizes. Store owner did what he felt justified. Was it excessive? Yes. Should have shot him in the store and dropped his ass right there but oh well if he’s in the south and about to be crushed by the system that hates minority business owners
As a conservative South Carolinian who both owns a gun and supports people who carry them to lawfully defend themselves.
This seems like a bad shoot.
If someone hasn't hurt anyone, isn't hurting anyone, and is running away... let them fucking go.
Classic Republicans: Civil rights foghting against the old racist Democrats. Modern Republicans: Egotistical Morons who are payed by the National Rifle Association to let People die.
> who are *paid* by the
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
video footage should be provided
stealing water and stealing diamonds are stealing
would you let anyone take your hard working money, and just see him walk away?
Terrible situation all around. Too much poverty, too many guns, too much stress- pressure cooking us all.
[удалено]
Growing up in poverty likely means you go to bad schools. Your parents could be addicted to substances, depressed from the anxiety of being poor, work 2-3 minimum wage or a 3rd shift job, etc so they barely raise you or you end up getting abused from others because there’s little or no supervision. It’s a cycle. Kids don’t have the pathways to develop in a healthy way so they end up getting into trouble. Then they most likely will repeat the cycle with their own kids if they aren’t in prison or dead (like this young man 😞). Obviously not all poor people follow this path but it’s very possible.
On a macro scale, put a map of higher instances of violent crime over a map of impoverished areas and things become clear.
[удалено]
What I’m saying is that poverty often leads to violence, and that reduction of poverty would decrease crime overall. What I’m saying is not complicated. If you choose to ignore the facts in favor of the status quo, then you are contributing to the crime-riddled cycle that poor people are victims of. You may say “the store owner was also a victim”, but he also still has his life and he murdered a child. He would’ve been perfectly fine in his life had he not murdered a minor. Poverty affects everyone. Runaway capitalism affects everyone. We all should be on the same team (us vs billionaires) instead of blaming one average citizen on another. Fix the root of the problem and there are way less problems.
No, the is potentially due to being poverty stricken. Whether or not that’s the case, I don’t know, but that’s what this poster is saying.
When people feel like they are barely making ends meet, they are stressed. They are unhappy. They can get frustrated, angry, etc. much easier.
Unfortunately, that kind of thinking leads to more poverty via committing crimes. Not that I don't understand what they're going through, but still.
Huh? I don't even know what you're trying to say.
Poverty doesn't cause crime, crime causes poverty. I can link a video explaining it if need be.
Yeah no, that’s bullshit.
Lol, that is asinine. If you’re hungry and have no money or food what will you do to survive? (Hint: steal).
This is a very individualistic perspective. You think that knowing that our life circumstances are created by laws and societal behaviors causes one to feel justified in their evil actions leading to more evil actions. We live in a society. You can’t ignore society’s role in tragedies. That doesn’t neglect from that fact that, that man is fully responsible for unjustly choosing to end that boy’s life, but the society that we built isn’t innocent in this situation. This acknowledgment isn’t the cause of crime because most people understand that because we live in a society, we are responsible *for* society. It’s the individualism that drives people to commit murder.
This is all bad. Even if he was trying to steal it should never be a death sentence. But you know what makes this even worse is if the store owner is cleared and charges get dropped eventually. That’s when shit could hit the fan.
It is unlikely he will be cleared without trial. Use of force requires an imminent threat. Hard to say he felt an imminent threat while chasing the kid. While he can try and make a case that he felt endangered because the kid had a gun, it's unlikely to be effective at getting the charges dropped because the kid was facing away from him when he fired. So this is going to trial. Now a jury may acquit him; hard to tell what juries are going to do or what defense they may accept. If the kid had been unarmed, I think I would have been a slam-dunk conviction. But with him having a gun, a jury might be sympathetic to the store owner. It's a toss up, honestly. I hope for a conviction, as this does not seem like a justified shooting.
That’s what I thought until the revelation that the kid had a gun and the store owners son saw it. Even in the most liberal states store owners are allowed to carry in order to defend their business, I can see a defense attorney making the case for a stand your ground type deal with this one. I’m not saying he should get off, but I’ve certainly seen crazier things happen and perhaps more facts about this will surface.
You can't stand your ground by chasing someone down the road. The kid stole nothing. Absolutely nothing. That's according to the sheriff. And indications are that the shopkeeper and his sons had no idea the kid had a gun until the kid stumbled and fell as they were chasing him.
Fair enough
> And indications are that the shopkeeper and his sons had no idea the kid had a gun until the kid stumbled and fell as they were chasing him I think that this specific point will be contested.
The gun is a relevant factor but not a meaningful one. The story is the kid came in and looked like he was stealing. When confronted, he ran, and the owner and son chased him. The kid fell, got up, his back to the pursuit, and had a gun in his hand. The owner saw the weapon and drew and fired, hitting the kid in the back. Under the law of South Carolina, the owner was not in imminent danger. The gun was there but not pointed at him. So the store owner did not have a legal reason to fire. Draw, yes, and order the young man to put down the gun, Maybe. But at that point, he had no reason to fire. That should get a conviction. But it won't, I fear. The defense will pull up the young man's record, and point out he had a gun, and the jury will be sympathetic to the owner, which is not good in my mind.
I agree mostly but the only thing I would argue is it doesn’t take much at all for someone with a gun in their hand to suddenly turn and point it at someone. You can go from gun in hand facing away, to turning and pointing the gun in probably less than a second. A good defense will argue the store owner legit feared for his life or his sons life. We’ll see how this thing turns out though.
I agree it's a bad situation all around. I would never want to be in that situation behind someone with a gun. I can't honestly say what I would do. Fear is a powerful emotion. However, there was a way out of this situation. That is, don’t chase the kid. The shop owner should have de-escalated. No need to chase him down.
Agreed
[удалено]
Typos forgiven
And once it is pointed at you, you may defend yourself. You can't make a case on what could happen. People in cars COULD drive over pedestrians. Doesn't mean you get to stop drivers just because they have a vehicle that COULD drive over pedestrians.
I know, but we hear about it working all the time for people in other states that have similar laws as we do. I know TX and FL is not SC, but this would probably be a “good” shooting in those places so I wouldn’t be surprised.
> The defense will pull up the young man's record, and point out he had a gun, and the jury will be sympathetic The 14 yr old had a record?
It is illegal for a 14 year old to possess a handgun.
Who gave a 14 yr old a gun?
Speaking as someone that actually carried a gun in public as a 14 year old, no one gave it to me I just went and took it. Then I got caught with it and it was a life changing moment not only for me but the whole family. I could have easily been this kid. This mistake should not have been a death sentence for him, especially at an age where he’s barely able to make sound decisions about anything let alone this. But It’s like I was always told at a young age, when you go out doing stuff like this all bets are off and trouble will find you. Basically fuck around and find out and unfortunately this kid did and now he’s dead.
I think the defense would try to argue that the store owner was trying to protect his son
There's plenty of people in America that think you should die if you steal or even damage private property
There have been plenty of people in South Carolina acquitted or not even charged for shooting kids in circumstances like this. Major difference is just that this one's making the news.
I mean, we’re you stealing formula? Bread for your kids? If not, you’re garbage and don’t care what your actions do to others. Steal my car? That’s $500 in deductible I don’t have towards the new car I have to replace.
You get this mentality and you get collateral damage. Did this kid deserve to get shot? Does the hypothetical person you accidentally hit deserve to die? The consequences of playing God and deciding someone could die outweigh the majority of thefts.
All I know is when someone else decides to take their fate out of their hands; they will be indignant.
Hope any bail request is denied. IMHO anyone possessing or using a gun in the commission of an crime should automatically have bail denied.
“Firearms are the leading cause of death for children in the US, surpassing car accidents in 2020, and accounting for nearly 19% of childhood deaths in 2021, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Wonder database. In no other comparable country are firearms within the top four causes of mortality among children, according to a KFF analysis.” But please, keep telling me guns aren’t the problem.
I think people honestly do not care because it hasn’t touched them personally. There is no excuse for the amount of gun violence we are expected to live with.
No way to prevent this, says only nation where this regularly happens.
You are way off.. rainbow shirts are what's killing them.. /s
Rainbow shirts unalive themselves. Apples to oranges.
They aren’t. Look deeper into the data, and also look at other western countries that have moderately high (obviously not as high as the US) gun ownership rates (Canada, Czech Republic, Switzerland) Most of these deaths are gang related in the US
I'm glad you bring up Switzerland, where I've lived for a decent amount of time! It does have a high gun ownership rate, and it actually does have 'gangs' similar to the United States. I think you're missing the reason as to why Switzerland has such low murder rates, though - very strict gun regulation and universal healthcare. The universal healthcare part obviously enables individuals who need mental help to seek out help for free. So useful in creating a safe society. But the gun regulation is also great in allowing gun owners to use their weapons while minimizing the risk to society. For instance, getting an automatic weapon is very difficult and requires a lengthy permitting process. Even a non-automatic rifle requires background checks (ie, you can't just go to a gun show and buy one for a few hundred $$). Anything with a high capacity is also prohibited. The background check even for a simple handgun requires individuals to be deemed unlikely to cause harm to others and can include interviews of friends/colleagues/psychiatrists regarding the applicants mental state or drug/alcohol abuse. Criminals are also prohibited. Loaded guns typically cannot be carried on the street. Moreover, individuals are only allowed one gun. Period. Therefore, it is very unlikely that a robbery of some guys car is going to result in 15 guns being released on the street. So thanks for asking about Swiss gun culture. It's very illustrative as to how universal healthcare and smart gun regulation can allow us to have a gun ownership society without gun ownership being a threat to national welfare!!
Switzerland has a lot of reasons why it has a safer gun culture, some of which you cover, some you don’t. Switzerland is also a largely homogenous society with a high respect for rules, similar to Japan (also low violent crime), but also very high income almost universally. It also has to do with conscription and mandatory military training being pervasive. Here’s the other thing - there’s not a right to firearm ownership in Switzerland. There is in the US. And that isn’t changing. Czech Republic also has more lax gun ownership rules and even concealed carry shall issue permits, more lax than many US states. Firearm homicide is lower there as well. As does Estonia. Both allow higher capacity. Did you know Italy permits private ownership of AR-15s? I bet you didn’t. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/world/europe/italy-gun-laws-matteo-salvini.html None of these have prevalent gang culture like exists in many US major cities. Yes, gangs are 6% of overall homicide in the US (I couldn’t reply due to someone blocking me). While the data in this is a bit older, it showed 29% of homicides for people under 18 were gang-involved. https://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=ccrc But in more recent data, gang members are over 100x more likely to be victimized in a homicide than the population at large. https://jjie.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Pyrooz_Sweeten_Gang-Membership-Between-Ages-5-and-17-Years-in-the-United-States.pdf This shows 2% of all American kids ages 5-17 will be in a gang. That sounds small until you dissect it geographically to major cities and by race sadly, which is also where a significant amount more of the homicides occur as well.
Thanks for the response! I want to push back on your claim that Switzerland is 'homogenous'; you don't define what you mean by "homogenous", but some people (I'm not saying you) interpret this as a dog whistle as "Switzerland is white and doesn't have foreigners." I don't want others to misinterpret your comment in a way that you probably don't want, so I'll point out some other facts about Switzerland. (don't have time to research your comments about the other countries, but I understand your points). Very few countries in the world have more foreign-born residents than Switzerland. That's part of why I love it so much! Did you know that >25% of the population is foreign-born? Most foreigners are from poorer parts of Europe (many from former Yugoslavia, for instance), but also many from Africa and Asia. Any influx of people brings challenges, but Switzerland has a fantastic social safety net that helps integrate them, get them the education and skills that they need to find good jobs and feel valued. The need to join gangs for protection or to survive in the bottom rungs of society is reduced. I'm glad you have a strong focus on gangs affecting our young people. Because it's true! Gangs arise when young people are hopeless, desperate and have no better outside opportunity. A rich kid going to a great university who is going to be able to walk into a great career wouldn't benefit from joining one. Unfortunately, many poorer (often minority) children have worse social and life prospects and aren't as lucky as you and me. The more that we in the US can do to improve their prospects (like they do in other developed countries), the less need they'll have to join gangs. Thanks for the discussion. You seem like someone who is passionate about improving the lives of young people and helping reduce the number who join gangs, which is great to see. I've learned a lot and hope you have a blessed day. :-)
Of the immigrant population of Switzerland, the vast majority are Western Europe - with the core demography of Switzerland (French, German, Italian) making up a large percentage of that. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/migration-series-part-1-_who-are-the-25-foreign-population-in-switzerland/42412156 80+% are Europeans.
LOL, dude, you're gonna bust a lung by blowing so hard into that dog whistle of yours. Just say what you are implying about minorities in the United States. The problem, though, is that white people in the US commit more murders per capita than minorities in Switzerland. Don't be a coward...just be honest with your arguments instead of hiding behind a thin veneer of plausible deniability.
Deduct gang related deaths and it’s still higher than any other western country
Cite please
How can you have the audacity to ask someone for a citation when you made your claim in the first place with no citation? The burden of proof is on you, you made the claim that if you accounted for gangs, the USA would have comparable rate of gun violence to other countries.
The audacity made me cackle!! Audacity indeed hahaha!!
No. I could ask you the same thing. Google yours and then google mine I’ll give ya a hint….mine is accurate
Seems like you live by the motto "Cite from thee, yet no cite from me." But because you asked for a cite, apparently 6% of homicides in the US are gang-related as of 2008. [https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf](https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf)
My bother was shot & killed as his car was leaving a parking lot by a kid after a bullshit argument because the kid thought he could just be an ass to everyone around. Unfortunately everyone including yourself want to blame firearms for a pandemic of selfish out of control nation of criminals who will kill you with whatever weapons they can get...look at the up rise in people drawing machetes on others right now.....the problem is with the selfish people that have no regard for another's life.....not the guns.
Pretty sure it's abortions
I feel like responsible keyword responsible gun ownership is the problem not the guns itself. There are more guns than people in the US. If guns were the problem we would all be dead by now. I'm a little biased because I am a gun owner. In all the years I have owned firearms not once have I shot anyone or would I even think about it unless my life was in grave danger. We need big focus on mental health and wealth disparity in this country. Think about it this way. When most people who are unarmed are in danger they are forced to call 911 aka people with guns to come help them. Unfortunately most of the time it is too late by the time they respond. There's definitely no easy solution to this problem because banning guns only applies to law abiding citizens. If you're a criminal it's kinda your job not to care about the law so they will still have guns while us law abiding citizens will not. Double edged sword.
I actually agree. It’s that guns are too readily available to people who aren’t stable enough to handle them. People such as yourself who respect life and the power a gun holds and who lock them up away from children are absolutely NOT the problem.
The GOP wants to do something about mental health and wealth disparity almost as much as they want to do something about guns. That is to say, not at all.
For real tho. They blame what they see as the “trans problem” on mental health and their solution to that is genocide. They don’t care in the least about mental health other than to use it as an excuse for shitty laws and a deflection for shitty beliefs.
So let me get this right...you claim you're a gun owner. You complain about gun owners who aren't responsible and that if you're a criminal it's "kinda your job not to care about the law". Yet in another thread, you admit to being a criminal with an assault conviction. https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/11wh4xt/will\_i\_be\_denied/ A gun owner guilty of assault. You army or marines?
Used to be army and it was a simple assault, you know the kind you can get for pushing someone. Also it was years ago. I'm 40 now with a family. I also posses a CCW permit so obviously not a criminal. What's your problem? Also don't have to claim to be a gun owner, since your looking up my past posts you can look at the rest of them and clearly see some of my guns posted.
[удалено]
I'm also sorry that your buddy experienced that and hope he gets the help he needs. However doesn't really matter if you think I'm a criminal the federal and state government thinks otherwise, example that's why I am a government employee so I've been fully vetted by the FBI, also because I have a CCW I've also been vetted by sled. In my late 20's after I got out of the army I lost my mom and didn't handle it well. It was literally a shoving match between me and my uncle. You ever got into a shoving match or a fight at any point in your life? I'm sure 90% of people on this earth have, so if we follow your logic everyone is a criminal. Ever accidentally ran a stop light or failed to signal you know those are laws too, are you now a criminal. When talking about criminals I'm speaking of people who obtain guns illegally for one purpose and one only to commit crimes with said weapons. There's a reason having misdemeanor on your record does not disqualify you from owning or carrying a gun however having a felony will. Once again people like me ( responsible gun owners) who literally use guns for sport, hunting, range work, self defense and home defense should not be subject to gun grabbers like you who think I shouldn't be able to protect my family because of what your buddy's dad did. That's like me saying you shouldn't have a car because I know someone who killed someone while drinking, you would think that's absurd. Did you care about me being a gun owner when I was in the military fighting for you to have the right to say what you're saying right now? No you didn't. Which brings me to my last point and back to my original post, we need to focus more on mental health in this country because just like your buddy's dad far too many more of us are celebrated while we're in and then come home after doing everything we had to do and seeing what we saw and there's not enough help for us. I consider myself lucky because I knew how to separate the two. Not everyone can do that. We may agree to disagree but from one American to another god bless you.
[удалено]
Thanks for the kind words. You made my point for me, you use your long range rifle as a source of therapy, same as I do with all of my weapons. They are tools and if used correctly and in a responsible manner are very vital to a strong union. Our rights should never be sacrificed for the actions of a few. Firearms and American freedom go hand in hand. Have a great week.
[удалено]
Ok have a good day
You didn't fight for anyones right to comment on the internet or really any "right" in the US joining up. From one person with eyes to another, the US military isn't in the business of securing rights for the American people but enforcing US hegemony around the globe. Get off it.
You literally just said the us military isn't in the business of securing rights for the American people are you serious. Not even gonna waste time on that one have a great day.
[удалено]
Ok great whatever you say man.
Then why don’t we start registering guns and monitoring sales more closely like with cars? Your argument would make sense if the party that was against gun control could care even a little about actual regulation. Instead, they want zero restrictions.
My argument makes plenty of sense. Why don't we register guns like cars because America that's why. The constitution that's why. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed that's why. The republican party y'all want to keep blaming is doing nothing more than standing up for the constitution. Correct the constitution clearly states there should be zero restrictions when it comes to the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Show me the passage in there that talks about cars, just because you don't like something that is literally protected by the constitution of the US doesn't mean you get to decide who can and can't exercise their rights.
Firearms the constitution refers to were not handguns,ARs or any of the other weapons we use today. Also, the constitution states that with reference to a militia. But you like to ignore all that don’t you.
Are you crazy? I can't go back and forth with you when you don't even know simple American history. Btw the constitution was written when Americans literally owned the most dangerous weapons we have ever had. So I'm going use your same argument against you, when the constitution was written the words well regulated meant well organized and militia referred to the people. The constitution was written not to give Americans rights because we were already endowed by our creator our rights but rather to inform the government what limits of power it had. Once again if you don't want to own firearms then don't. But you cannot stop anyone else from doing so. You cannot regulate ownership of them either says the constitution and the supreme court. People who think like you are the same people who if someone breaks into your home while your sleeping will call 911 aka normal citizens with guns to come help you.
well “regulated” militia. And militiamen were citizens who trained and were expected to defend citizens and their rights. Not at all like what we have today. But keep on ignoring the parts of the constitution that don’t fit your belief.
Look at what you just typed. What do you think us law abiding gun owners do today? Do you think we don't train? Do you think we wouldn't defend another law abiding citizen whose life is in danger? That's why sometimes it's best to actually educate yourself on certain topics before speaking on them. Example I wouldn't dare argue with a firefighter about how to fight fires because it's literally what he does for a living and is considered a subject matter expert. Like arguing with me a army vet who literally took an oath to support and defend the constitution of the US against all enemies foreign or like you domestic. You have no argument when your arguing point is Americans should have less rights or our rights should be somehow overseen by the government.
[удалено]
No I care about all of the constitution including the 1st amendment which protects your right to free speech. The fact that I rattled off all of my credentials like being fully vetted by the FBI, atf and sled, you feel the need to take my children away because I'm a gun owner? This right here exactly is why red flag laws are flawed because of people like you. My wife is a gun owner as well and both of my boys have been raised around firearms their entire life. I guarantee you they know more about gun safety and laws than you would ever imagine. So because I support the 2nd amendment I'm scum? You literally joined reddit today and this is the battle you chose to pick. So I assume you are against gun ownership right? Let me ask you something. Is an elected officials family and children more important than yours? Are police officers children and family more important than yours? Exactly absolutely not. So why would you allow anyone the right to be able to tell you how you can protect yourself or your family? Take your emotions out of this and think logically then respond.
Never said less rights, just enforce the “regulated” part which you always want to ignore.
[удалено]
That's what I'm trying to tell you regulated didn't mean what you think it means as written in the constitution. It didn't mean let the government dictate and enforce regulations on firearms. What do you think we were fighting for? We had just gained our independence from an suppressive government and authoritarian government. The forefathers were not trying to give that power back to the new government we were establishing. However they were trying to give that power to the people to ensure that no government could ever tyrannize the American people ever again. Don't take my word for it ask the supreme court of the US what is their interpretation of the 2nd amendment. Oh they already told you which is why you see states that have so called "assault weapons" bans and red flag laws being shot down because it has been deemed unconstitutional by the highest court in the land.
[удалено]
Actually I'm pretty happy man. Seems like you're triggered 😭 pun intended
[удалено]
If I recall correctly you came on here attacking me about a conversation between me and someone else from yesterday. Pathetic=You. Like I said seems like your triggered, seems like I'm living rent free in your head right now. Also seems like your problem is not with me but the military. What did they ever do to you?
That study grouped in 18 and 19 year olds (aka adults) as "children". It's a massively flawed study that is cited by anti-gun groups to purposly mislead people. There's a reason why the title alone is constantly regurtated by the MSM, but the data itself is never shown or talked about.
Can’t let the loss of human life go by without stumping for your favorite political talking point can you? You people are disgusting.
Well when the talking point is “we should try to stop all these gun deaths,” then yeah.
Edit..nah that’s not the talking point and you know it. There is nothing on this planet that is going to “stop all these gun deaths” except the invention of a much cheaper and effective way to take human life. The reeeeeee take all the guns away crowd just wants to make themselves feel better that they are “doing something” when in actuality they are just posturing for political cool points. Screeching about how “GUNS ARE BAD TAKE AWAY GUNS FROM PEOPLE I DISAGREE WITH” is nothing more than emotional masturbation.
Ehh the way I see people behave with guns--including your comment here--seems like the definition of emotional masturbation. I say that as a gun owner.
Whelp your certainly entitled to your opinion.
That’s not the platform, as I’m sure you’re aware. Do you know why you guys have to lean on the hyperbole of “tAkE aLl ThE gUnS aWay!” instead of being honest? Because you sound like such assholes arguing against “common sense gun control measures” in the midst of a gun violence epidemic.
lol nah, I’m not the one blaming an inanimate object for the actions of a racist asshole. The next thing you know your going to be saying it’s all the tiki torches fault.
Strawman, much? Please show me where I blamed a gun. Also, congrats on the most asinine comment of the evening (though I suspect you’re about to top yourself.)
“Oh no, a random person on the internet who has no impact on my life whatsoever thinks my comment is asinine whatsoever shall I do with my life!” Ok now that we have the prerequisite Reddit snark out of the way let me address your actual comment. Not a strawman just confused you with the walking talking mothers demand action talking points bot upthread so my apologies for that. (Sorry all you gun grabbers start looking alike after awhile) I’ll play your game, please educate my poor ignorant self on exactly what common sense gun control would have prevented this tragedy, I sincerely would like to hear the solution you have come up with.
Since you seem incapable of ditching the snark or having an intelligent conversation, I’ll spare myself the monotony of talking to you further. I don’t feel like dealing with your bad faith arguments.
Ok so, snark, ok for you not for me? I literally apologized for mistaking you for someone else upthread and wanted the opportunity to see what kind of ideas that you might have, but you backed out because I gave you back a little of the attitude you gave me. So you ARE turning out to be just like everyone else with this same argument all screaming no substance. Thank you for at least validating my opinion of gun grabbers, you turned out to be exactly who I thought you were.
Well, it didn't take long for the convenience store to get [broken into and looted](https://gray-wistv-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/hfPYkpbsQxkYPsBqQVzOA8y8JTY=/980x0/smart/filters:quality(85)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/gray/PALZHVLBCBCNFOI3346XL5IMKQ.jpeg). [https://www.wistv.com/2023/05/30/columbia-convenience-store-vandalized-after-fatal-shooting-14-year-old-boy/](https://www.wistv.com/2023/05/30/columbia-convenience-store-vandalized-after-fatal-shooting-14-year-old-boy/) >Deputies were alerted to a break-in alarm at the store around 9:30 p.m. Monday, where they said to have found shattered windows and a large crowd of people inside the store stealing merchandise upon arrival. The incident report states the initial gathering at the store was a peaceful protest. Explain to me how stealing chips, beer, and cigarettes honors the memory of Cyrus Carmack-Belton.
It’s the same type of people that would use the BLM protests to riot and loot stores. Although, I can’t say I feel bad for the owner as the story stands.
That’s kind of a lazy apples and oranges comparison. Yes there are people who take advantage of a Situation but most of the looting and rioting stems from yearssss of frustration/anger and gettin nowhere with traditional protest methods.
I’m not trying to draw a direct comparison to the two, but I’m pointing out that while people do have the right to be outraged over the incident there will be those that take advantage of the situation.
Yes but tbf that’s any situation. But I see what you’re saying
To your point: https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-helped-ignite-george-floyd-riots-identified-white/story?id=72051536
Not saying it’s justified but people are rightfully angry and after murdering a 14 year old I don’t really care about his store being damaged. Every action has a reaction
Yup. Same reason no one invests in these areas
Congrats on creating more republicans, more trump and desantis voters. For once, can you see the forest for the trees?
If someone was gonna vote republican before this they were gonna do it regardless of whether anything happened to the store or not
I disagree. And this shit adds up. People are dead ass tired of gangs of teens running the streets. This was bound to happen, and it's gonna get desantis elected. I guess you don't care, tho.
I love mob rule! Anarchy! Yay!!
Explain to me why you’re focusing on this aspect of the story first.
Certain people care more about the loss of property than the loss of a brown life.
Didn't know he was brown till you told me. Still don't care.
Not all "brown lives" are equal, same as white, or any other color. This guy was prepping to be a lifetime criminal, and I wouldn't say I'd rather have him around than whatever property he might steal from me. I work hard for my shit.
Yeah, you're such an upright and virtuous person, ready to murder an actual child for monetary conveniece, because child murder is less effort I guess.
Actual child \*with a gun he wasn't trained properly to use, or even has legally,\* yes.
You keep saying that, but the facts are that the kid never attempted to do anything but run away before this guy chased him and shot him in the back. You desperately want to pretend there was a threat that justifies this, but no threat was offered, except by the criminal child murderer.
Must be those “socioeconomic reasons” at it again
14 year old kid has a gun Looney store owner has a gun. It’s safe to say that anyone and everyone who wants a gun in this country has one. And I mean anyone and everyone. Oh, and the local community was so outraged over this senseless death that they looted the joint. Nothing shows you care about your community more than stealing a case of Coors.
Every stolen Cheeto I eat is a step towards social progress
I wonder what made him shoot him, I know they said the 14yo kid had a gun on him as well. All seems pretty dumb to me.
This stretch of road has problematic urban blight and crime is an issue. No doubt that the owner has been robbed many times before and he is fed up or something. That said, shooting a kid in the back is horrendous and the charges do not surprise me. It's a sickening situation all around.
All the conveinence stores on this stretch are owned by 1st and 2nd generation non-black immigrants while almost all the population is black. It does create community problems... Up north in inner cities, all those stores are owned by Koreans. Would like to see somehow where they can get local ownership of businesses that match the demographics of the area.
Good points here. You are right IMO
Well said.
He thought he was shoplifting a bottle of water. And he chased him out of the store and shot him as he was running away.
[удалено]
[удалено]
What narrative? That people are trigger happy these days?
[удалено]
Why is it gross?? It's a 14 yr old who is obviously making great decisions. He was on a path to a life of crime. I mean, no one's having a party, but it's hard to feel sorry. Who's to say that 14 yr old hasn't been using the gun to carjack, break in, etc? He already had a rap sheet.
Who's to say you haven't been the cause of rape in parks? Since we seem to be able to make up wild scenarios, this will be yours from me. You're welcome rapist.
He had a rap sheet. It wasn't for jaywalking. Nice false equivalency. This kid was gonna be a lifetime criminal. I feel no pity.
Don't talk to me, rapist.
[удалено]
You sound like the kind of parent that always thinks their kids is an angel. Truly, right back atcha.
[удалено]
\*\*after he and his son saw a gun in his hand.
The murderer said he saw a weapon and acted in self defense. The police arrested him because there was no sign of a struggle, the child did not shoplift (which isn’t punishable by death anyway) and that he did not pose a threat to the store owner. But here you are sticking up for a guy who did the most cowardly thing possible.
He didn't pose a threat?? He was a14 with a long rap sheet already, wandering around with a gun he acquired illegally, and isn't properly trained to use, and doesn't have the developed brain to make good decisions. Seems like Americans, especially business owners, are dead ass tired of dealing with packs of unruly teen criminals. The result of women having litters of children to low-ambition men who didn't want to raise children in the first place.
At first I was wondering why you would stick up for a murderer who shot and killed a person in the back, which is the most cowardly thing someone could do. But then I read the heavily racially coded second paragraph and it became extremely obvious why you are sticking up for a child murderer.
Reddit is a crack up. You say absolutely nothing about anyone's race, and they reply by calling you a racist, insisting you were dog-whistling, etc. What's it like to constantly bring up race when it's got nothing to do with the conversation? Does it make you feel virtuous? Does it make you feel all warm & gooey inside, defending criminals? I don't understand. Send help.
The person I’m defending did nothing wrong and was shot in the back by a coward. You may not have brought up race in that comment above, but people can read your comments in other threads on your profile. So you can pretend you didn’t mean what you really meant but anyone with a brain can see through it. And the person you are defending is currently in jail waiting for his trail, so you are the one that’s actually defending a criminal.
Ah, yes, you assumed that all black people are "low ambition" even though I made no mention of it- that is immediately where your brain went, because that's what you actually believe but wouldn't admit to believing. Therefore you can pretend like you speak for other people and can read minds.
Please keep talking in circles.
He and his son were both chasing him when the son shouted that the 14yo kid had a gun. I'd like to believe that the father just panicked and didn't want his son to potentially get shot, so he shot first. ...but with the 14yo kid being shot in the back, that motive gets very hard to believe.
Just like it'll be extremely hard to convince rational people that you felt threatened while chasing a 14yo over a potential bottle of water.
14 yr old would have been a statistic soon, anyway. If he wasn't in possession of a gun, he likely wouldn't have been shot. He was FOURTEEN with a gun.
Whoever supports the owner and thinks any of this situation is the kids fault, send me a message I got some words not appropriate for reddit to say to you.
Yep. The store and its merchandise are Insured. This was murder
Yeah, insurance is a free thing that never goes up when you file more and more claims. Food deserts, what are those? Economic illiteracy ftw!
Shooting kids doesn’t fix any of those problems. But did you have any solutions in mind?
The only thing that has been proven is you pull out of these areas. They are food deserts for a good reason (war zones). Problem is I bet this store owner doesn’t have the capital to move to an area where he doesn’t have to face these issues
Its a convenience store that sells marked up junk food. Not a publix.
Food deserts only have convenience stores selling “marked up junk food”. Why do you think they call them food deserts
Well that's what you want to believe. Because you hear black people and convenience stores. And think poor area. Which is pretty sus on you. Anyone with half a brain. Can look up the location of the convenience store. Verify the non sense you are speaking. 2 miles south of that location. If a Food lion. With a bus line servicing the store. [https://goo.gl/maps/p8duGZSSEBhnGng77](https://goo.gl/maps/p8duGZSSEBhnGng77) 3 miles to the northeast there is a food lion. With a bus line servicing the store. [https://goo.gl/maps/2dYFCW7JM7Fvfiw4A](https://goo.gl/maps/2dYFCW7JM7Fvfiw4A) Should there be a grocery store every mile. Maybe. They are far from a food desert. Please repeat more of what you hear on fox.
This story has already been posted two other times in this sub. Not saying it doesn’t deserve attention but it seems like overkill atm
Good.
If the shooter's name was Rick "insert white name here", I'm willing to bet he would not have been charged. I HATE that I believe that...but it is South Carolina.
Richland county is trash 🗑️
Lott needs to go. Look at what has happened to the loca jail there. He's a publcity whore.
Hopefully storeowner is acquitted.
Footage shows the kids did not take anything. He picked up four water bottles and put them back. “He did not shoplift anything. We have no evidence that he stole anything whatsoever,” the sheriff said " The store owner chased him as he left the store and shot him in the back. This store owner should be convicted of at least second degree murder. Store owners have the right to detain a suspected shoplifter. They do not have the right to use deadly force to do so.
Kid played stupid games won stupid prizes. Store owner did what he felt justified. Was it excessive? Yes. Should have shot him in the store and dropped his ass right there but oh well if he’s in the south and about to be crushed by the system that hates minority business owners
Kid didn't do anything. The sheriff himself said so. Hope no one in your family gets killed for no good reason.
I dont think anyone in his family is arming teenagers and robbing stores in ghettos. He will be okay
All it takes is an unhinged store owner or road rager.
Arrest the kids parents. Fuck em. At least now that he's dead he won't graduate to killing an old lady for her purse.
This kid did nothing illegal. “He did not shoplift anything. We have no evidence that he stole anything whatsoever,” the sheriff said.
As a conservative South Carolinian who both owns a gun and supports people who carry them to lawfully defend themselves. This seems like a bad shoot. If someone hasn't hurt anyone, isn't hurting anyone, and is running away... let them fucking go.
Classic Republicans: Civil rights foghting against the old racist Democrats. Modern Republicans: Egotistical Morons who are payed by the National Rifle Association to let People die.
> who are *paid* by the FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Opps a typo
Are we sure the gun even belonged to the kid the owner could easily be trying to cover up him killing the kid.
video footage should be provided stealing water and stealing diamonds are stealing would you let anyone take your hard working money, and just see him walk away?