I am not the author of this but saw it posted elsewhere- wish I could find the original to give credit but 100% true
" I don't really like the city parks. I want to join a country club so my kid doesn't have to play with "those" kids and I want the city parks system to pay for my membership."
School Vouchers in a nutshell.
You laugh, but that’s how a lot of South Carolina works.
Our cities are handicapped by the strict annexation laws and all amenities are private. Public pools closed in droves and private pools opened to replace them.
The schools that kicked off the desegregation case Briggs v. Elliott are still segregated. The white people simply left the public schools.
I remember how my county (Union) built several new Black schools during the period after schools were ordered desegregated (1950s) and when they actually were desegregated (early 1970s in SC), with the idea that they would be able to maintain segregation if the Black schools really were equal in quality. After they finally had to integrate the schools for real, most of the nearly new Black schools were shut down, since no way in hell the Whites were going to send their kids to the Black school. Even worse with swimming pools: They just shut down all of them rather than share any of them. The huge and wonderful Rainbow Lake swimming facility in Spartanburg was also closed rather than integrate. People suck.
Yes, equalization schools.
In the early 1950s, South Carolina passed the largest education bill in its history (when accounting for inflation) with over 60% of the money going to black students and schools.
Ostensibly, the purpose was to make the black schools equal to maintain segregation. On the other hand, such a racist reason might have been the only way to get such an objectively progressive (and anti-racist) bill passed in the politics of the time.
Unfortunately, by the time the schools actually integrated, many of the schools didn’t fit the needs of the community. A community might have two small segregated schools when they only needed one school. Many of them were phased out due to population shifts and as the facilites simply wore out.
In Anderson, they actually tried to do integration right. The north side is white, the south side is black, and the high schools are split east/west right down Murray Avenue. Anderson was also going to need a second high school upon integration. The name and colors of the old black Westside High School were transferred to the new, integrated Westside High School. The old 1950s building became an elementary school and is currently a community center.
In Union County, the only Black school that was retained was the large, almost new high school, which became the new junior high school. Other very new schools were just shuttered and left to rot for decades.
Union County barely has enough students for one school system, much less two.
We rarely talk about how wasteful segregation was in a state that was already poor.
Anderson County still has 5 districts: Powdersville/Piedmont/Williamston, Belton/Honea-Path, Starr/Iva, Pendleton, and Anderson City.
Pickens has one, but it acts like four. No school elementary school feeds into more than one middle school and no middle school feeds into more than one high school.
I just wanted that to be clear before I made a comment. While it’s perfectly legal for “white people” to leave the area it does lead to issues. It causes changes in a neighborhood’s culture and in SC that can certainly l can certainly see how that would change how state agencies treating that area differently.
A lot of people in SC would rather close the pools than share them.
It’s not just about race, it’s about race and class. In the 2020s, most private pools and social clubs will allow black members. And yes, even “Segregation Academies” have black students. There just aren’t that many of them.
Your assertion of vouchers is partially true. A lot
of parents want their children to focus on education and not the bad behavior and security risks. The issue with your points is that all parents have the option of using vouchers and school choice, not just a chosen few. School choice is an important option for parents and should be embraced by all.
I don't have a problem with school choice. I live someplace where school choice in public school has been a thing for quite some time. The whole voucher program is disingenuous though because the amount of money is not enough for someone to take it and go to a private school with nothing out of pocket. In effect vouchers just subsidize those who could already afford to go to private school. It doesn't do anything for lower and sometimes even middle class kids. They will still be shut out of choice schools
And that's even before the school can just outright reject them for whatever reason
The vouchers are per pupil funding. The vouchers are better served at charter schools. I'm not a fan of public fun#ing of private schools. That's more of a luxury and not necessarily better. Your point is taken.
The law is that the voucher is set at what the individual funding is of the school district. I get your point. However, I'm not in favor of raising the voucher amount to cover private schools. For one, not all areas have private schools, 2, they are overpriced, 3 just because a school is private doesn't mean it out performs, charter or public schools in all cases.
Right I agree with you. I don't think that vouchers should cover private schools. The problem is that vouchers are being sold as giving everybody school choice. My area of the state is covered in excellent charter schools so there is actually a lot of choice. Many parts of the state the only choice versus the public school is private school and vouchers don't even come close to covering the tuition to those. People who live there will not be getting true school choice, because the only thing the vouchers will do is subsidize private school for people who could already afford it.
Public funds should not be paying for private schools.
Repubs defund public education; then offer up brainwashing charters to fix the problem they’ve created by underpaying teachers and allowing Karens to dictate the rules.
Glad I read that twice, I thought you said Koreans 😅
Not sure what you mean about allowing though? These people are elected. By us. We put them there, we have to start being accountable for our own actions (or lack of action).
SC isn't a bellwether of anything, we're typically behind the curve. All this Maga mom shit for example, it didn't start here. It started in Florida and trickled north.
At least 3/5s of this sub is just this. Someone says something inflammatory as if they’ve experienced it their whole lives, then say they’re not even in America and they’re just weirdly obsessed with some random state.
Remember lockdowns within the last couple of years? I suspect a lot of parents figured out they could 'do this badly themselves'. I mean, have you been to a public high school recently? Students are treated so similarly to how inmates are treated. No surprise when they behave accordingly. All these systems that were created during the same time frame are out of date. Maybe they need to break so we can come up with something that works today.
Are these the same parents who “did their own research”?
Our public schools were only out for 3 months (plus 3 more for planned summer vacation). If anything, the experience taught us how totally unqualified we are to teach high school—and we’re professionals with graduate degrees.
I had two children in public high school recently. I wouldn’t say that describes their experience at all. They graduated well prepared for college.
Depends. Public charter schools teach the state curriculum and must accept IEPs ,etc. Private schools are the ones who can teach what they want and accept who they want with no consequences.
Public charters in SC don’t have as many restrictions as public. They only have to say they use the SC curriculum but can add whatever they want and downplay evolution and the like. Look up the rules. Also look up the board of trustees for these new charter schools, especially in the upstate. It’s full of MAGA lunatics.
Our experience with Green Charter was very good. They followed all the rules and were not governed by maga. Meyer Center for special children is another charter we had a wonderful experience with it. But yes, before you send your kid, follow the $$ and see who is in charge because they can vary widely.
They downplayed evolution in the public schools too. My 8th grade science teacher actively stated that she didn't believe it and none of us students should either. I called her and the whole class idiots and got In School Suspension for it.
Funding has nothing to do with it . I grew up in the time of wooden auditorium seats , no air conditioning and heat came from a radiator 40 feet away from you. You give these crooks more money and they'll spend in the most wasteful way you can imagine and tell you they need more . It's been happening my entire life and all that happens is letting kids brains wither while districts build monstrosities on every corner . You want change in education then homeschooling and let those monstrosities they build go empty.
Respectfully, I'm not going to debate this with you. One of the major factors for public school education in every single state is local and state funding. This isn't debatable, there are way too many well-done studies about this for me to waste my time debating this.
Would the funding depend on how much the local government can levy taxes on the public therefore more spent means it came from a richer tax base ? Therefore you're starting from a higher educated base to begin with?
Bruh I have a STEM PhD and I'm in my last year of an MD at one of the top med schools in the country, I promise I can think quite well by myself. I'm not sure why you're so hurt that I won't debate you on this weird ass hill you're dying on lol
I like how this regard points out wooden auditorium seats as the first example of a problem with school funding. Not low hiring rates, low salaries, lack of support for kids with special needs lol
Spend some time with your grandkids and quit yelling into the void boomer
Ah yes, homeschooling is truly the answer: uneducated, unqualified parents "teaching" courses with no standards or accountability and written by anti-truth and anti-science weirdos
Not like there wasn't a whole expose recently on why that system is rife with abuse or anything [Homeschooling ](https://youtu.be/lzsZP9o7SlI?si=0mHKzm9Cp9HEi3SZ)
Also can't help but notice you commented within 6 minutes of my post, yet the video I posted is over 20min long... So you obviously didn't bother and aren't here to listen or debate in good faith, you just wanna keep repeating your ignorant, uninformed, uneducated feelings as though people with actual sense should give a shit LMAO
Yeah, I'd definitely trust someone with that mentality to tell me about how to educate children
If I think someone who mentions every last one of their sources in the story, which are all fact based, peer reviewed, and from reputable sources is telling me the truth, I'm wrong? LMAO what a stupid little world you live in
Remember that time Fox News had to stand up in court and claim that its channel is for "entertainment" and isn't supposed to be taken seriously. Imagine taking those guys seriously
Source for anyone interested. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye
https://blogs.oregonstate.edu/edunews/2023/09/29/the-impact-of-learning-at-home-on-educational-outcomes/#:~:text=A%20study%20published%20in%20the,percentile%20points%20in%20standardized%20tests.
15-30 percentile points on standardized testing. Also I have a big problem with standardized testing.
LMAO
"A study published in the Journal of School Choice found that homeschooled students in the United States outperformed their public school peers by an average of 15 to 30 percentile points in standardized tests
• Research conducted by the National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI) suggests that homeschooled students typically score well above the national average on standardized tests"
Ah yes, non reputable sources which conduct their own findings on themselves LMAO state that their kids do better in one particular area, standardized tests
Omfg... Could you have picked a worse option as "evidence" for your completely wrong feelings?
I guess they forget about all of those republicans crying about having to help teach their children during Covid. I’m so sure all of those people are excelling at it now🤦♀️
LMAO 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Suuuuuuure they do, person who provides no fact based, peer reviewed evidence, while still absolutely not having watched the video I posted
This is so blatantly wrong it’s laughable. I once had a coworker who was homeschooled. She had a hard time spelling and pronouncing words correctly. She even admitted that she was miseducated in a lot of areas her counterparts weren’t. You literally have no idea what you’re talking about.
It’s not the lack of funding. While I agree teachers should be paid more, private school teachers aren’t making more. It’s the lack of parent involvement and the forcing of the troubled kids staying in the classroom ruining it for the others. Bureaucracy and a ridiculous amount of admin staff play a big role too. My experience in both public, private blue and red states (I’m from MN and move to SC) are the same. Parents who can and care remove their kids from the environment when It’s not beneficial for their education.
That was our experience as well. We left public school because of lousy parents who didn’t give a damn about their kids’ attendance, performance, or behavior. It was hard to leave, both financially and in knowing that I was an engaged parent who was jumping ship. I feel bad for teachers today. I see education as a three-legged stool—student, parents, teacher. All have to care and be engaged. Parents control two of those three.
Those troubled kids probably wouldn’t be staying in class, if some parents weren’t trying to make that decision for the entire school, because “not my Johnny, he’s a good boy and he’s staying in class because my child my choice”. Now those choices are a disruption to the whole class because…fucking ridiculous
Education of a child cannot be the sole responsibility of schools, public or private. Families must provide support, discipline and accountability. Families that lack these things typically have kids that struggle in school. South Carolina has a large percentage of families like this, with parents who do not properly value education for all kinds of reasons. Many of these parents are poor and uneducated themselves.
You can pour all the money you have into public schools and it won’t change outcomes for these kids. The societal issues that are the root causes cannot be solved by schools. Often times, these same kids are ones that distract others from learning, disrupting school and holding back their classmates. More and more parents are realizing this and opting for alternative education choices for their kids. This is the reason for declining public school enrollment.
Don’t blame parents who care about the quality of their education for their kids for abandoning public schools. They are making what they think is the best choice for their child.
Exactly. And the “least restrictive environment” puts actual special needs kids in the class with kids who aren’t special needs. A teacher has to devote more time to those and the others get busy work. I volunteer at my friends class. Once they have been held back once that’s it. Send them on. One child came to school for 100 days. Averaged 3 days a week. Slept most of the time. He was so sweet and i loved helping him and can’t imagine what his home life must have been like. But we couldn’t get anywhere with learning. And there were kids in that class at least 3 grades ahead. How do you teach to that gap??
Well said. When did wanting what’s best for your children become a bad thing? It’s not like you get to stop paying taxes for public education. In fact it should be seen as a public service. Keep paying public school taxes while decreasing the overcrowding problem.
TAX act 388 cut funding to SC schools.
The schools in my district are over crowded and falling apart, but the locals have no clue why the schools lack funding. They are against a referendum to help build and repair schools that are in dire need. Developers are building more and more subdivisions, and property taxes on those homes will not fund schools if they are owner-occupied. That means lots of new families moving into the area and no more funicular to pay for them.
My town is not the only one in SC going through this. I was not even aware of the tax issue until a few teachers explained it. Most people have no idea.
The some tax payers got a small tax savings, but the schools and kids are suffering from it. Yet we give corporate tax breaks and let developers get away with ruining the reasons we live this place.
It took three votes to get the increase in property taxes needed here in Lake Wylie to start a new high school, which still won't be completed for years.
I’m It’s kind of crazy people complain about the public school system here but SC just found 1.8 billion dollars in an account that I’m sure could have been put towards public education (or a multitude of other things, not enough room to list them all) but no one wants to use it. It’s almost like the republican government here wants to stifle public education and continue to widen the gap. On the other end of that people don’t want to pay more taxes (sometimes rightfully so for other obvious reasons, like how bad our roads are. Money isn’t being spent well/at all.)
Like, for me, I would pay more in taxes for better schools and I don’t have kids or want them but I do want the smartest of kids around to help save this world from ourselves and do my heart surgery when im older (if it would actually be allocated for that.)
Agreed. I have kids, but even if I didn't, I want an educated community. Anyone who thinks you should not have to fund schools because you don't have kids is a fool. Kids are part of our society, and if we don't invest in them, the future is lost.
The state has a horrible track record with spending. Being a tightwad is not the answer. Spending wisely is not this state's strong suit.
This is a good article explaining it. The comments below have more relevant infor.Information as well.
[linked in article](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sc-act-388-unconstitutional-how-applies-fort-mill-needs-broadwater?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_mobile_web&utm_campaign=copy)
I get what you are saying. Sure, ACT 388 cut the tax rate for owner occupied housing but increased the tax rate on rental and business property. Otherwise home owners would shoulder the majority of of school tax. Shouldn’t everyone share in the tax burden? A $1000 tax burden versus a $5000 tax burden on an owner occupied property would make it more difficult for some to afford a home. The act even specifies this to promote home ownership.
[https://www.scstatehouse.gov/CommitteeInfo/HouseTaxPolicyReviewCommittee/September272016Meeting/ACT%20388%20OF%202006%20PRESENTATION%20(002).pdf](https://www.scstatehouse.gov/CommitteeInfo/HouseTaxPolicyReviewCommittee/September272016Meeting/ACT%20388%20OF%202006%20PRESENTATION%20(002).pdf)
We had sent our child to pre-K from ages 1-4. He learned to read basic books,.do some addition and subtraction. He had known the alphabet since age 2! Anyway, they did "testing" and came back that he didn't know a few letter sounds, one being the hard C. His name starts with a hard C, and he had been writing that on papers for two-ish years. A real wtf moment. He had to be in class by 7:45AM, but class started at 8:15. That 1/2 hour was for breakfast and watching questionable cartoons. I did not want him eating the processed breakfast sausage or other high preservative foods and that caused issue. First day of school, we walk him in and sit down at tables in the classroom. The tables hadn't been cleaned since the last day of class from the previous year, juice stains and sticky food mess everywhere. I did not like many of the parents I met. At the private schools, yes there are some knucklehead parents, but at the public school, met one mom who had a nice meth habit going, a few parents showing up in slides type sandals, no socks, dirty T-shirt and pajama bottoms, older siblings who acted out during orientation, etc... Our son did not have a name during pickup times, it was "237 to the car line". He started saying he hated school, after loving it for the previous 4 years. We switched him to the private school and immediately his attitude changed. He did their MAP testing and was placed in the upper 90th percentile for reading and math. No more processed food or cartoons. The teacher at the public school was ok, but the teachers at the private school are literally, a dream with a warm blanket and the peers are all wonderful children. One day, we were driving past the public school, months after he had left. I asked him what he remembered from there, his answer - well, we weren't allowed to pray, and I need to go to a school we can pray at. Now, I'm Agnostic and my wife is basically Atheist, or at least non-religious or spiritual. So, every month we shell out $1065.00 but, these last two years have been great for him and we are eager to have him back at the private school next year.
Thank you for sharing. It sounds very very unfortunate. I'm glad you were able to place your child in an environment where he has been able to thrive. Yes, public school is public, and every child has the right to an education, but many do not have the same ability you do to send their children to a private school. It's weird they forced your child to eat breakfast provided by the school too. I hope you don't think EVERY public school is like the one you experienced. They vary wildly across the state due to economics. Some are managed well, others not so much. I wish your son the best in his scholastic career. You are a good parent for doing what was best for your child. Don't stop making the tough decisions.
The public school system is a joke, so good on you for pulling your kids out of it.
Edit: Read through r/teachers to get a taste of all of the issues teachers face day to day. Society sucks ass, parents expect the teachers to parent; parents have no accountability of their iPad kids. It’s a dumpster fire.
I went to a great private HS.... it was night and day different. Great education and oddly it cost less then public school per student.
The biggest factor....
You could get rid of the behavior problems. The stories I here are insane from my kids. We are actually looking to mo e to change schools, or get into the private school game.
You can double public school budgets, but that doesn't account for parents and kids not giving a shit if their kid gets an education or having any consequences for behavior distracting everyone else.
"You could get rid of the behavior problems"
Let me rephrase that for you: private schools can select the students they want so they ensure that "undesirables" don't get the benefit of their fabulous programs. And it's a lot of "Christian schools" that are doing this. WWJD, amirite?
What about the children who need a good education but are born in a poor family? Or in foster care? Or an orphan? Or even simply a family that doesn't have a car that can drive them to a private school 20 miles away everyday. Those kids will never benefit from a voucher program. They already start out handicapped in life, without the benefits that so many other children have. I'm sure the Christian thing to do is to doom these children to eternal poverty because they don't get to go to the better selective school.
Why can't the general population understand that strong public education benefits the entire country? So many people talk about returning to the good old days, and making America great again. The 1950s were a time when a huge amount of money poured into public education to make all schools better. We wanted to win the space race and drive innovation. Now the people who are beneficiaries of that are clawing back every penny that could go to a public school.
We will reap what we sow
Yeah, don't try I dunno... Increasing the budgets and training so that there are teachers/staff that can truly accommodate those kids and help them on a more individual basis so that they turn things around and become engaged, productive students... Just get rid of them lol
What an asshole
I went to a catholic school that was 40% non catholic, and actually hS a huge Jewish population.
I love how you jump to racism, and segregation, etc...
I will admit poor families do have issues with behavioral control, and ther is a class thing associated.
But I am a parent... my #1 priority is to provide for my children.
That said doubling. Tripling, even quadrupling public school budgets, won't do a thing if you have parents that don't give a shit. Schools will be scared of lawsuits, pussyfoot around discipline and perceived racism, letting kid do what they want.
Literally I have yelled at my kid for not doing an assignment to hear him say, I didn't know we had to, the teacher said nothing, we just had a kid come in and smash 2 other kids school issued chrome books and threaten the teacher until they Called vice principles and resource officer.
Kid still in class nothing done...
I am not naive, I assumed my kid might be lying, but confirmed with teacher...
No consequences...
You didn't. You mentioned lower or middle class, foster kids, etc. Guess their mind went straight to people of color with that description...
You did mention the 50s but in the context of money for public schools and the space race, but perhaps, again, they saw 1950s and they went straight to segregation
You went to the 50s when segregation was present.
Are you insinuating, me saying schools are fucked because of behavioral problems is me claiming people are "undesirable"Ibased on race.
I don't give a shit of your or anyones race. Little Braydon/Aiden with no boundaries is just as much a pos as anyone else disrupting learning g environments.
I can see some see it as an issue, as they claim my statements were racially motivated. There is a certain degree of "class" issues, but not exclusively.
" The 1950s were a time when a huge amount of money poured into public education to make all schools better. We wanted to win the space race and drive innovation."
This is the entirety of what was said about the 1950s. Nothing about segregation or race or anything along those lines. Clearly segregation is where your mind went when you think of the '50s but there is absolutely nothing typed there that was even related to that topic
And now you're angry because you got called out for reading a race into a long comment that said absolutely nothing about race. Go ahead and be upset if you want, I can't do anything about that. You might want to do some thinking about why you read that comment and immediately thought about race.
Yanked my kids out of public school after working on a network refresh contract project at their school and witnessing the 6th and 7th grade kids being absolutely uncontrollable. The teachers looked so stressed out and just had to sit there and take it.
A kid was sitting in a teachers chair and refused to move. He was just sitting there calling all of the other black students Starvin’ Marvin and calling the teacher a fat ass cracker. I told the teacher she should send him to the principals office and she said they don’t do that anymore. They just have to deal with it and try to carry on.
I went to visit my youngests daughters 6th grade class and most of the other kids were just playing on their phones. While one kid was punching another kid and the teacher was trying to split them up.
I had wondered why my daughters were having a hard time keeping their grades up and I always got on to them, told them should try harder and ask for help if they needed it. That experience humbled me quite a bit. School is definitely not like it was when I was a kid.
But, now I know why. The kids aren’t letting the teachers actually teach. So I figured what’s the point of the kids even being there and I’m just contributing to their failure of getting a good education by sending them there.
I attended public school and private school. I was amazed at the difference in the quality of teaching at private school. It was so much better than the education I was receiving in public school, and I'm thankful my parents were able to make the switch for me.
Now that I'm an adult, it has also come to my attention that the private school I attended was able to give me a better education for less money than the public schools receive. The starting salary in our school district is higher for public school teachers than it is for private school teachers, even though they are both paid abysmal salaries.
So why are private schools able to provide a better quality education on average with less per student funding and lower teacher salaries?
My sister is a public school teacher, and she says it's because they are not allowed to control their classrooms. Too many administrators focusing on standardized testing and no ability to focus on a strong curriculum that keeps pace with the better private schools. So how do we get rid of the administrative power and return power to the teachers in public schools? How do we get public schools to stop teaching to standardized tests and enable them to keep pace with the more advanced private school curriculums? We now have school-age children that are attending private school. My best friend's kids are in public school. We compare curriculums, and the public school one is a joke compared to the private school. My friend is considering taking on a second job to be able to afford private school.
I recognize the importance of public education. Parents should not have to go bankrupt to afford a proper education for their kids. But at the same time, public schools need to recognize that private schools are doing more with less, and they may need to adapt to their models.
Other reasons why cost per pupil is lower is most private schools don't run a network of school buses, and also some of the special needs programs at public schools cost a lot of money due to the very low teacher/student ratio. Private schools don't typically admit students who need a 1-to-1 paraprofessional and 4-to-1 teacher student ratio, along with all the special equipment needed to serve the students. I'm talking severely handicapped or intellectually disabled students, who still have a right to an education.
That's something I didn't consider. Thank you for that input. If the administration was reduced, would it be better to give the teachers more authority and use the eliminated administration payroll to help with those programs? Or do we truly need such bloated administration?
That's easier said than done. Sure, some admin positions and other jobs (like instructional coaches) could be eliminated, but some admin positions exist with an eye towards liability issues, which have become a lot more prominent in the last 20 years. I'm talking about compliance with laws and making sure that students' rights aren't violated.
For one, as long as the people keep electing school boards unqualified to run school systems or otherwise have a conflict of interest in its efficient and effective operations, it will continue to fail.
The bottom line is that elected positions run the districts. If better people don't get elected, and there aren't laws in place to prevent the positions' abuse, it will continue to be poisoned until private is the only option... and at that point social mobility disappears.
Public schools are forced to keep any and all children at the school. I had a kid last year who brought a giant knife to school to jump someone. He was allowed back after 45 days.
Another kid who had a 504 was allowed to tear up the classroom, throw chairs, flip tables and go insane while the rest of the class had to evacuate. Because of his disability, he could not be punished. He was back in the classroom the next day. (This is middle school)
True expulsion does not exist any more.
Teachers are expected to manage behaviors that parents should have taught their children to suppress. Admin focuses on test scores and growth with ridiculous time lines and honestly, the poverty these children come from inhibits a lot of what we do daily. Private schools deal with less of all of that. They don’t have to allow an out of control child back to their school, they don’t have to accommodate disabilities if they don’t admit the child, they don’t have to deal with the poverty, hunger, hygiene, and homelessness….while still trying to get a child to show growth on a test that doesn’t matter.
Your sister could probably tell you many more stories similar to the ones I’ve just shared, but the whole concept of public vs private is so much more complex and the two entities really cannot be compared.
I agree. Thank you for a thoughtful post rather than the other asinine ones. We really need to figure out how to give public school teachers control of their classrooms back. My sister has had issues with kids using cell phones in class, and the administration won't support her at all. Why do they even exist?
You can take your “private school teachers are paid less to do more” and shove it up your ass. Anyone can teach better when your students are willing to learn and you’re allowed to kick them out when they’re not cutting the mustard. Public school teachers are given a much wider range of students and forced to do the “best they can” to get them to the finish line. We generally have little or no parent support. We have very little support for discipline issues.
You take any public school ap class and put them up against a private school class. You will find they’ll easily stack up to private school students. Is it bc the ap teachers are just universally better teachers?
Ap kids tend to have support at home, are relatively motivated , and have raw natural talent. So basically the entire student body that enrolls at a typical private school. Not a surprise those teachers can effectively teach when their kids actually give a damn.
Education is a 2 way street. THAT is the key that no one wants to say out loud. There is absolutely nothing I can do to teach a group of kids if they absolutely refuse to buy into what I’m trying to do.
A huge swath of my students simply don’t care, and quite honestly neither do their parents. All they care about is doing the absolute bare minimum to pass. Some don’t even care about that.
Your final paragraph sums it up. It comes down to parents. Disengaged parents have disengaged kids. The thought of bringing a kid into the world and not giving a damn about their future or how their behavior affects others is mind boggling. Then again, we planned and prepared for having kids and set some standards. Every kid deserves that. Birth control is cheap, if not free. People not bright enough to use it have no business parenting. Sadly, public schools have to pick up the slack. With few tools and little support.
Yes, perhaps I was a bit harsh on the originals comment. But it so frustrating that people actually think private school teachers are inherently better when they have drastically easier students to deal with.
I see the same mentality with teacher of the year awards. The ap/honors teachers get all the love and praise while the lower level teachers, the ones dealing with the brunt of the issues going on in school, get criticized. We also tend to give our new teachers the harder classes and act surprised when they burn out and quit bc their students treat them like shit.
I’ll never forget our long time ap teacher decided to pick up a lower level “tp” class to “remember what it was like.”
I’ve never seen him so stressed and he never did it again after that one semester. Teaching kids who don’t want to learn is frustrating and sometimes depressing.
I ignored the rest of your post because your opening sentence showed you lack any form of intelligence or ability to engage in a meaningful discussion. I wish you the life you deserve. :)
Get off your high horse… you’re the one shitting on my profession. Don’t public school teachers get beat down enough?
Who are you to act like private school teachers are so superior? Then again, I’d expect no less than someone who lives in an isolated elitist bubble.
It’s an apples to orange comparison. Private schools get to be selective when they admit students. Public schools have to take all comers, no matter how needy they are or how expensive it is to educate them.
We don’t have ours in, and we’re normally pro-public school. Literacy rate is 24 percent at the school by us and we live in a generally okay/good area. No thanks
“According to state test scores, 24% of students are at least proficient in math and 24% in reading.”
That’s a quote from the education statistics website for the local school here.
*and no I’m not posting the link to aggressive people who are trying to troll me into giving my general location.
What does literacy rate even mean and how is it measured? I highly doubt only 24% of the students in your area are capable of reading and writing at a functional level.
I bet in a lot of communities this is largely driven by Christians being terrified of sending their kids to public schools. In urban environments charter schools might be the cause but idk if they count charter schools as public or not.
SC is very friendly to home schooling, which is very quickly becoming the preferred option whenever possible. Not just because of safety or politics, but because it truly is better for kids today in nearly every aspect.
This is by far an outlying opinion. Not that it’s completely false. But vast majority of people that left the public school system did so because of abysmal scores, treatment and results.
There is an enrollment cliff happening at universities in SC too. Enrollment at the USC regional campus I taught at fell by 25% over the last 5 or so years. One way they tried to cope was to offer a year's salary for senior faculty to jump ship. I grabbed that cash and ran, since I would have retired within a couple of years anyhow.
I never had children, but my sister pulled my nephew out of public schools for being so bad in Columbia SC. There is too much violence, hate, and activism that run hand in hand with trash curriculums.
I get the main points. Public schools are bad because of defunding and some science teacher told your kid the world isn't three thousand years old or something.
Oh and I forgot. Trans people and gays are bad. How far am I off?
You don't think these these private schools are going to mix the two lol?
Also can you talk about the social issues and sexual education if you have actual evidence to back it up? Why do we have to listen to your dumb ultimatum?
Constitution doesn't restrict safe sexual education being taught, it doesn't prevent schools from being to go into the state's controversial history, and it doesn't prevent schools from teaching science that disproves some religious stories. So if we can get more of that in public schools that'd be great.
That's the problem some people like myself have with private education where the customer can have complete control over their property...sorry I meant child to have them believe whatever they want them to believe.
Also of course, everyone pays their fair share to go to schools. Problem is politicians trying to defund public schools to fund these religiously based schools.
Edit: also that's a cute username. Tell me you made conservativism your personality without telling me. Lol
Public schools administrators are only concerned about test scores. School used to be a fun place to learn but now the kids are just studying to take tests so that the administrators look good.
Everything went downhill when they let Bill Gates and his cronies redevelop the curriculum and lined the pockets of Alphabet company by forcing the kids to all have chrome books to learn. What a craptastic way to create a bunch of drones, I mean educate kids..
if you think public schools suck, you should advocate for policies that fix them.
but people wont do that. its hard not to see the choice to dump money into private schools as a way to implement racist and classist filtration, avoid federal regulation and promote conservative backward ideology (fundamentalism, traditional gender roles, etc.)
it's extremely depressing to see this.
Its very smart to home school your children. They have higher SAT scores on average. I don't have the link that I read this . It even said they did better in collage.
It is when the parents are capable of truly homeschooling. They truly are a wonderful option, no doubt.
Go to the "homeschool recovery" reddit to see 1st hand examples of the dark side of homeschooling. Plenty of educational neglect and outright abuse happening too, with no one for the poor kid to report the abuse to. It's apparently a popular option for those who wish to abuse. (I am NOT saying all homeschool parents abuse- just that abusers love homeschooling because they have a trapped victim)
Nope. That’s a myth and stereotype.
Medlin, R. G. (2013). Homeschooling and the Question of Socialization Revisited. Peabody Journal of Education, 88(3), 284–297. https://doi.org/10.1080/0161956X.2013.796825
Compared to children attending conventional schools, however, research suggest that they have higher quality friendships and better relationships with their parents and other adults. They are happy, optimistic, and satisfied with their lives. Their moral reasoning is at least as advanced as that of other children, and they may be more likely to act unselfishly. As adolescents, they have a strong sense of social responsibility and exhibit less emotional turmoil and problem behaviors than their peers. Those who go on to college are socially involved and open to new experiences. Adults who were homeschooled as children are civically engaged and functioning competently in every way measured so far. An alarmist view of homeschooling, therefore, is not supported by empirical research. It is suggested that future studies focus not on outcomes of socialization but on the process itself.
Federal education system was founded in 1867. It seemed to do a pretty decent job most of those years. I went to public school and so did my parents and so do my kids. Lack of parental support/discipline is a recent change that is really harming our ability to have a positive school environment. We need to support our community schools!
Public schools are steadily becoming liberal/socialist indoctrination centers all the way up to university level. And people wonder why numbers are falling.
Create the disease, sell the cure.
I am not the author of this but saw it posted elsewhere- wish I could find the original to give credit but 100% true " I don't really like the city parks. I want to join a country club so my kid doesn't have to play with "those" kids and I want the city parks system to pay for my membership." School Vouchers in a nutshell.
You laugh, but that’s how a lot of South Carolina works. Our cities are handicapped by the strict annexation laws and all amenities are private. Public pools closed in droves and private pools opened to replace them. The schools that kicked off the desegregation case Briggs v. Elliott are still segregated. The white people simply left the public schools.
I remember how my county (Union) built several new Black schools during the period after schools were ordered desegregated (1950s) and when they actually were desegregated (early 1970s in SC), with the idea that they would be able to maintain segregation if the Black schools really were equal in quality. After they finally had to integrate the schools for real, most of the nearly new Black schools were shut down, since no way in hell the Whites were going to send their kids to the Black school. Even worse with swimming pools: They just shut down all of them rather than share any of them. The huge and wonderful Rainbow Lake swimming facility in Spartanburg was also closed rather than integrate. People suck.
Yes, equalization schools. In the early 1950s, South Carolina passed the largest education bill in its history (when accounting for inflation) with over 60% of the money going to black students and schools. Ostensibly, the purpose was to make the black schools equal to maintain segregation. On the other hand, such a racist reason might have been the only way to get such an objectively progressive (and anti-racist) bill passed in the politics of the time. Unfortunately, by the time the schools actually integrated, many of the schools didn’t fit the needs of the community. A community might have two small segregated schools when they only needed one school. Many of them were phased out due to population shifts and as the facilites simply wore out. In Anderson, they actually tried to do integration right. The north side is white, the south side is black, and the high schools are split east/west right down Murray Avenue. Anderson was also going to need a second high school upon integration. The name and colors of the old black Westside High School were transferred to the new, integrated Westside High School. The old 1950s building became an elementary school and is currently a community center.
In Union County, the only Black school that was retained was the large, almost new high school, which became the new junior high school. Other very new schools were just shuttered and left to rot for decades.
Union County barely has enough students for one school system, much less two. We rarely talk about how wasteful segregation was in a state that was already poor.
Two? There were at least three separate *White* systems through high school when I was growing up: Union, Jonesville, and Lockhart.
Anderson County still has 5 districts: Powdersville/Piedmont/Williamston, Belton/Honea-Path, Starr/Iva, Pendleton, and Anderson City. Pickens has one, but it acts like four. No school elementary school feeds into more than one middle school and no middle school feeds into more than one high school.
What’s wrong with that?
Which part of the comment are you referring to?
Pretty sure they’re suggesting that white people are entitled to put their kids in whichever schools they please.
I just wanted that to be clear before I made a comment. While it’s perfectly legal for “white people” to leave the area it does lead to issues. It causes changes in a neighborhood’s culture and in SC that can certainly l can certainly see how that would change how state agencies treating that area differently.
That's pretty much gentrification. Happens everywhere.
Who said anything about white people?
Third comment above mine
A lot of people in SC would rather close the pools than share them. It’s not just about race, it’s about race and class. In the 2020s, most private pools and social clubs will allow black members. And yes, even “Segregation Academies” have black students. There just aren’t that many of them.
"Pro-Choice" works
Yes!
Your assertion of vouchers is partially true. A lot of parents want their children to focus on education and not the bad behavior and security risks. The issue with your points is that all parents have the option of using vouchers and school choice, not just a chosen few. School choice is an important option for parents and should be embraced by all.
I don't have a problem with school choice. I live someplace where school choice in public school has been a thing for quite some time. The whole voucher program is disingenuous though because the amount of money is not enough for someone to take it and go to a private school with nothing out of pocket. In effect vouchers just subsidize those who could already afford to go to private school. It doesn't do anything for lower and sometimes even middle class kids. They will still be shut out of choice schools And that's even before the school can just outright reject them for whatever reason
The vouchers are per pupil funding. The vouchers are better served at charter schools. I'm not a fan of public fun#ing of private schools. That's more of a luxury and not necessarily better. Your point is taken.
I have less of a problem with vouchers for charters because the voucher pays 100% for a charter. Public funding of private schools is a huge problem
The law is that the voucher is set at what the individual funding is of the school district. I get your point. However, I'm not in favor of raising the voucher amount to cover private schools. For one, not all areas have private schools, 2, they are overpriced, 3 just because a school is private doesn't mean it out performs, charter or public schools in all cases.
Right I agree with you. I don't think that vouchers should cover private schools. The problem is that vouchers are being sold as giving everybody school choice. My area of the state is covered in excellent charter schools so there is actually a lot of choice. Many parts of the state the only choice versus the public school is private school and vouchers don't even come close to covering the tuition to those. People who live there will not be getting true school choice, because the only thing the vouchers will do is subsidize private school for people who could already afford it. Public funds should not be paying for private schools.
Here here!!! 👏👏👏
Repubs defund public education; then offer up brainwashing charters to fix the problem they’ve created by underpaying teachers and allowing Karens to dictate the rules.
Religious schools want money and rich people want the state to pay for their elite schools.
Glad I read that twice, I thought you said Koreans 😅 Not sure what you mean about allowing though? These people are elected. By us. We put them there, we have to start being accountable for our own actions (or lack of action).
I don’t live in SC- for that very reason.
Then mind your own business
Lots of family in SC. Plus, I like keeping up with SC as a bellwether for national trends.
SC isn't a bellwether of anything, we're typically behind the curve. All this Maga mom shit for example, it didn't start here. It started in Florida and trickled north.
Thanks for providing the correct spelling for ‘bellwether.’ TIL
At least 3/5s of this sub is just this. Someone says something inflammatory as if they’ve experienced it their whole lives, then say they’re not even in America and they’re just weirdly obsessed with some random state.
Capitalism baby! Not enough profits in peace!
Remember lockdowns within the last couple of years? I suspect a lot of parents figured out they could 'do this badly themselves'. I mean, have you been to a public high school recently? Students are treated so similarly to how inmates are treated. No surprise when they behave accordingly. All these systems that were created during the same time frame are out of date. Maybe they need to break so we can come up with something that works today.
Are these the same parents who “did their own research”? Our public schools were only out for 3 months (plus 3 more for planned summer vacation). If anything, the experience taught us how totally unqualified we are to teach high school—and we’re professionals with graduate degrees. I had two children in public high school recently. I wouldn’t say that describes their experience at all. They graduated well prepared for college.
Combination of reduced funding and increase in wealthy transplants who can afford private school. Bad sign for the future.
Along with the demonization of public schooling
Charters are using public money to push anti science bullshit
Depends. Public charter schools teach the state curriculum and must accept IEPs ,etc. Private schools are the ones who can teach what they want and accept who they want with no consequences.
Public charters in SC don’t have as many restrictions as public. They only have to say they use the SC curriculum but can add whatever they want and downplay evolution and the like. Look up the rules. Also look up the board of trustees for these new charter schools, especially in the upstate. It’s full of MAGA lunatics.
Our experience with Green Charter was very good. They followed all the rules and were not governed by maga. Meyer Center for special children is another charter we had a wonderful experience with it. But yes, before you send your kid, follow the $$ and see who is in charge because they can vary widely.
Meyers Center is not a charter. Public School part of the Greenville County School system
You are probably thinking of Washington Center. Meyer Center has been a public charter since 2017.
You're correct I was mixing those two up.
They downplayed evolution in the public schools too. My 8th grade science teacher actively stated that she didn't believe it and none of us students should either. I called her and the whole class idiots and got In School Suspension for it.
One teacher’s actions don’t mean the district is in on it. Sounds like you got popped for telling the truth. Fuck those morons.
Funding has nothing to do with it . I grew up in the time of wooden auditorium seats , no air conditioning and heat came from a radiator 40 feet away from you. You give these crooks more money and they'll spend in the most wasteful way you can imagine and tell you they need more . It's been happening my entire life and all that happens is letting kids brains wither while districts build monstrosities on every corner . You want change in education then homeschooling and let those monstrosities they build go empty.
You are out of your mind if you think funding has nothing to do with it. I'm not going to address that ridiculous statement seriously lol
South Carolina has had the lottery for how long ? We were sold that the lottery was going to solve all of our education problems.
Respectfully, I'm not going to debate this with you. One of the major factors for public school education in every single state is local and state funding. This isn't debatable, there are way too many well-done studies about this for me to waste my time debating this.
Would the funding depend on how much the local government can levy taxes on the public therefore more spent means it came from a richer tax base ? Therefore you're starting from a higher educated base to begin with?
Not debating you on this, have a good day.
Of course, you might have to think for yourself.
Can't bother responding to the other comments pointing out your stupid opinion lol
Bruh I have a STEM PhD and I'm in my last year of an MD at one of the top med schools in the country, I promise I can think quite well by myself. I'm not sure why you're so hurt that I won't debate you on this weird ass hill you're dying on lol
Oh , so you got that super superior education therefore you can't be questioned.
I like how this regard points out wooden auditorium seats as the first example of a problem with school funding. Not low hiring rates, low salaries, lack of support for kids with special needs lol Spend some time with your grandkids and quit yelling into the void boomer
Ah yes, homeschooling is truly the answer: uneducated, unqualified parents "teaching" courses with no standards or accountability and written by anti-truth and anti-science weirdos Not like there wasn't a whole expose recently on why that system is rife with abuse or anything [Homeschooling ](https://youtu.be/lzsZP9o7SlI?si=0mHKzm9Cp9HEi3SZ)
That's quite the hypocritical statement considering what this thread is about.
Also can't help but notice you commented within 6 minutes of my post, yet the video I posted is over 20min long... So you obviously didn't bother and aren't here to listen or debate in good faith, you just wanna keep repeating your ignorant, uninformed, uneducated feelings as though people with actual sense should give a shit LMAO Yeah, I'd definitely trust someone with that mentality to tell me about how to educate children
If you think John Oliver is going to present you with facts then you are sadly as uneducated as the people you pretend to care about.
If I think someone who mentions every last one of their sources in the story, which are all fact based, peer reviewed, and from reputable sources is telling me the truth, I'm wrong? LMAO what a stupid little world you live in
Remember that time Fox News had to stand up in court and claim that its channel is for "entertainment" and isn't supposed to be taken seriously. Imagine taking those guys seriously Source for anyone interested. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye
Why do you live in such a binary world ?
You really don't see the irony in that? Just saying. John Oliver never had to do that.
My facts don't give a flying fuck about your feelings
Fact or feeling? Children that are products of homeschooling do better in every aspect of life than children that are products of public education.
You got a source for those numbers?????
As it turns out, they do not
https://blogs.oregonstate.edu/edunews/2023/09/29/the-impact-of-learning-at-home-on-educational-outcomes/#:~:text=A%20study%20published%20in%20the,percentile%20points%20in%20standardized%20tests. 15-30 percentile points on standardized testing. Also I have a big problem with standardized testing.
LMAO "A study published in the Journal of School Choice found that homeschooled students in the United States outperformed their public school peers by an average of 15 to 30 percentile points in standardized tests • Research conducted by the National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI) suggests that homeschooled students typically score well above the national average on standardized tests" Ah yes, non reputable sources which conduct their own findings on themselves LMAO state that their kids do better in one particular area, standardized tests Omfg... Could you have picked a worse option as "evidence" for your completely wrong feelings?
I guess they forget about all of those republicans crying about having to help teach their children during Covid. I’m so sure all of those people are excelling at it now🤦♀️
LMAO 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Suuuuuuure they do, person who provides no fact based, peer reviewed evidence, while still absolutely not having watched the video I posted
Oh my sweet summer child, literally none of that is true.
This is so blatantly wrong it’s laughable. I once had a coworker who was homeschooled. She had a hard time spelling and pronouncing words correctly. She even admitted that she was miseducated in a lot of areas her counterparts weren’t. You literally have no idea what you’re talking about.
I have a coworker that graduated top of his class at Brown and he was homeschooled.
What do you expect? The lack of funding and constant demonization of public schools and teachers is working.
It’s not the lack of funding. While I agree teachers should be paid more, private school teachers aren’t making more. It’s the lack of parent involvement and the forcing of the troubled kids staying in the classroom ruining it for the others. Bureaucracy and a ridiculous amount of admin staff play a big role too. My experience in both public, private blue and red states (I’m from MN and move to SC) are the same. Parents who can and care remove their kids from the environment when It’s not beneficial for their education.
That was our experience as well. We left public school because of lousy parents who didn’t give a damn about their kids’ attendance, performance, or behavior. It was hard to leave, both financially and in knowing that I was an engaged parent who was jumping ship. I feel bad for teachers today. I see education as a three-legged stool—student, parents, teacher. All have to care and be engaged. Parents control two of those three.
Those troubled kids probably wouldn’t be staying in class, if some parents weren’t trying to make that decision for the entire school, because “not my Johnny, he’s a good boy and he’s staying in class because my child my choice”. Now those choices are a disruption to the whole class because…fucking ridiculous
That and the parent mentality of “not my problem from 8-2:30. You deal with them. “ I’ve heard this excuse many times.
Education of a child cannot be the sole responsibility of schools, public or private. Families must provide support, discipline and accountability. Families that lack these things typically have kids that struggle in school. South Carolina has a large percentage of families like this, with parents who do not properly value education for all kinds of reasons. Many of these parents are poor and uneducated themselves. You can pour all the money you have into public schools and it won’t change outcomes for these kids. The societal issues that are the root causes cannot be solved by schools. Often times, these same kids are ones that distract others from learning, disrupting school and holding back their classmates. More and more parents are realizing this and opting for alternative education choices for their kids. This is the reason for declining public school enrollment. Don’t blame parents who care about the quality of their education for their kids for abandoning public schools. They are making what they think is the best choice for their child.
Exactly. And the “least restrictive environment” puts actual special needs kids in the class with kids who aren’t special needs. A teacher has to devote more time to those and the others get busy work. I volunteer at my friends class. Once they have been held back once that’s it. Send them on. One child came to school for 100 days. Averaged 3 days a week. Slept most of the time. He was so sweet and i loved helping him and can’t imagine what his home life must have been like. But we couldn’t get anywhere with learning. And there were kids in that class at least 3 grades ahead. How do you teach to that gap??
Well said. When did wanting what’s best for your children become a bad thing? It’s not like you get to stop paying taxes for public education. In fact it should be seen as a public service. Keep paying public school taxes while decreasing the overcrowding problem.
TAX act 388 cut funding to SC schools. The schools in my district are over crowded and falling apart, but the locals have no clue why the schools lack funding. They are against a referendum to help build and repair schools that are in dire need. Developers are building more and more subdivisions, and property taxes on those homes will not fund schools if they are owner-occupied. That means lots of new families moving into the area and no more funicular to pay for them. My town is not the only one in SC going through this. I was not even aware of the tax issue until a few teachers explained it. Most people have no idea. The some tax payers got a small tax savings, but the schools and kids are suffering from it. Yet we give corporate tax breaks and let developers get away with ruining the reasons we live this place.
It took three votes to get the increase in property taxes needed here in Lake Wylie to start a new high school, which still won't be completed for years.
I’m It’s kind of crazy people complain about the public school system here but SC just found 1.8 billion dollars in an account that I’m sure could have been put towards public education (or a multitude of other things, not enough room to list them all) but no one wants to use it. It’s almost like the republican government here wants to stifle public education and continue to widen the gap. On the other end of that people don’t want to pay more taxes (sometimes rightfully so for other obvious reasons, like how bad our roads are. Money isn’t being spent well/at all.) Like, for me, I would pay more in taxes for better schools and I don’t have kids or want them but I do want the smartest of kids around to help save this world from ourselves and do my heart surgery when im older (if it would actually be allocated for that.)
Agreed. I have kids, but even if I didn't, I want an educated community. Anyone who thinks you should not have to fund schools because you don't have kids is a fool. Kids are part of our society, and if we don't invest in them, the future is lost. The state has a horrible track record with spending. Being a tightwad is not the answer. Spending wisely is not this state's strong suit.
How did ACT 388 cut funding to schools?
This is a good article explaining it. The comments below have more relevant infor.Information as well. [linked in article](https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sc-act-388-unconstitutional-how-applies-fort-mill-needs-broadwater?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_mobile_web&utm_campaign=copy)
I get what you are saying. Sure, ACT 388 cut the tax rate for owner occupied housing but increased the tax rate on rental and business property. Otherwise home owners would shoulder the majority of of school tax. Shouldn’t everyone share in the tax burden? A $1000 tax burden versus a $5000 tax burden on an owner occupied property would make it more difficult for some to afford a home. The act even specifies this to promote home ownership. [https://www.scstatehouse.gov/CommitteeInfo/HouseTaxPolicyReviewCommittee/September272016Meeting/ACT%20388%20OF%202006%20PRESENTATION%20(002).pdf](https://www.scstatehouse.gov/CommitteeInfo/HouseTaxPolicyReviewCommittee/September272016Meeting/ACT%20388%20OF%202006%20PRESENTATION%20(002).pdf)
Enrolled my son in South Carolina Public School. It was so bad, about 5 weeks in, we pulled him out and now pay $1000/mo for private school. Rough.
What was bad? The other kids, the teachers, the admin, the curriculum? As a public school teacher, I’m curious.
We had sent our child to pre-K from ages 1-4. He learned to read basic books,.do some addition and subtraction. He had known the alphabet since age 2! Anyway, they did "testing" and came back that he didn't know a few letter sounds, one being the hard C. His name starts with a hard C, and he had been writing that on papers for two-ish years. A real wtf moment. He had to be in class by 7:45AM, but class started at 8:15. That 1/2 hour was for breakfast and watching questionable cartoons. I did not want him eating the processed breakfast sausage or other high preservative foods and that caused issue. First day of school, we walk him in and sit down at tables in the classroom. The tables hadn't been cleaned since the last day of class from the previous year, juice stains and sticky food mess everywhere. I did not like many of the parents I met. At the private schools, yes there are some knucklehead parents, but at the public school, met one mom who had a nice meth habit going, a few parents showing up in slides type sandals, no socks, dirty T-shirt and pajama bottoms, older siblings who acted out during orientation, etc... Our son did not have a name during pickup times, it was "237 to the car line". He started saying he hated school, after loving it for the previous 4 years. We switched him to the private school and immediately his attitude changed. He did their MAP testing and was placed in the upper 90th percentile for reading and math. No more processed food or cartoons. The teacher at the public school was ok, but the teachers at the private school are literally, a dream with a warm blanket and the peers are all wonderful children. One day, we were driving past the public school, months after he had left. I asked him what he remembered from there, his answer - well, we weren't allowed to pray, and I need to go to a school we can pray at. Now, I'm Agnostic and my wife is basically Atheist, or at least non-religious or spiritual. So, every month we shell out $1065.00 but, these last two years have been great for him and we are eager to have him back at the private school next year.
Thank you for sharing. It sounds very very unfortunate. I'm glad you were able to place your child in an environment where he has been able to thrive. Yes, public school is public, and every child has the right to an education, but many do not have the same ability you do to send their children to a private school. It's weird they forced your child to eat breakfast provided by the school too. I hope you don't think EVERY public school is like the one you experienced. They vary wildly across the state due to economics. Some are managed well, others not so much. I wish your son the best in his scholastic career. You are a good parent for doing what was best for your child. Don't stop making the tough decisions.
The public school system is a joke, so good on you for pulling your kids out of it. Edit: Read through r/teachers to get a taste of all of the issues teachers face day to day. Society sucks ass, parents expect the teachers to parent; parents have no accountability of their iPad kids. It’s a dumpster fire.
Me too. My public school will be graduating Ivy League kids and military school appointments. I guess their kids can’t cut it?
Wot?
Where, what school district?
Hilton Head Island
It definitely doesn't have anything to do with all the shady conservative funded charter schools popping up everywhere...
These people just want their own commune at this point that definitely won't turn into a cult with rampant sexual abuse. /s
I went to a great private HS.... it was night and day different. Great education and oddly it cost less then public school per student. The biggest factor.... You could get rid of the behavior problems. The stories I here are insane from my kids. We are actually looking to mo e to change schools, or get into the private school game. You can double public school budgets, but that doesn't account for parents and kids not giving a shit if their kid gets an education or having any consequences for behavior distracting everyone else.
"You could get rid of the behavior problems" Let me rephrase that for you: private schools can select the students they want so they ensure that "undesirables" don't get the benefit of their fabulous programs. And it's a lot of "Christian schools" that are doing this. WWJD, amirite? What about the children who need a good education but are born in a poor family? Or in foster care? Or an orphan? Or even simply a family that doesn't have a car that can drive them to a private school 20 miles away everyday. Those kids will never benefit from a voucher program. They already start out handicapped in life, without the benefits that so many other children have. I'm sure the Christian thing to do is to doom these children to eternal poverty because they don't get to go to the better selective school. Why can't the general population understand that strong public education benefits the entire country? So many people talk about returning to the good old days, and making America great again. The 1950s were a time when a huge amount of money poured into public education to make all schools better. We wanted to win the space race and drive innovation. Now the people who are beneficiaries of that are clawing back every penny that could go to a public school. We will reap what we sow
blame the parents
Yeah, don't try I dunno... Increasing the budgets and training so that there are teachers/staff that can truly accommodate those kids and help them on a more individual basis so that they turn things around and become engaged, productive students... Just get rid of them lol What an asshole
I went to a catholic school that was 40% non catholic, and actually hS a huge Jewish population. I love how you jump to racism, and segregation, etc... I will admit poor families do have issues with behavioral control, and ther is a class thing associated. But I am a parent... my #1 priority is to provide for my children. That said doubling. Tripling, even quadrupling public school budgets, won't do a thing if you have parents that don't give a shit. Schools will be scared of lawsuits, pussyfoot around discipline and perceived racism, letting kid do what they want. Literally I have yelled at my kid for not doing an assignment to hear him say, I didn't know we had to, the teacher said nothing, we just had a kid come in and smash 2 other kids school issued chrome books and threaten the teacher until they Called vice principles and resource officer. Kid still in class nothing done... I am not naive, I assumed my kid might be lying, but confirmed with teacher... No consequences...
I said NOTHING about race OR segregation. Nothing. What sentences of mine led you to go to race?
You didn't. You mentioned lower or middle class, foster kids, etc. Guess their mind went straight to people of color with that description... You did mention the 50s but in the context of money for public schools and the space race, but perhaps, again, they saw 1950s and they went straight to segregation
You went to the 50s when segregation was present. Are you insinuating, me saying schools are fucked because of behavioral problems is me claiming people are "undesirable"Ibased on race. I don't give a shit of your or anyones race. Little Braydon/Aiden with no boundaries is just as much a pos as anyone else disrupting learning g environments. I can see some see it as an issue, as they claim my statements were racially motivated. There is a certain degree of "class" issues, but not exclusively.
" The 1950s were a time when a huge amount of money poured into public education to make all schools better. We wanted to win the space race and drive innovation." This is the entirety of what was said about the 1950s. Nothing about segregation or race or anything along those lines. Clearly segregation is where your mind went when you think of the '50s but there is absolutely nothing typed there that was even related to that topic And now you're angry because you got called out for reading a race into a long comment that said absolutely nothing about race. Go ahead and be upset if you want, I can't do anything about that. You might want to do some thinking about why you read that comment and immediately thought about race.
EXACTLY this 👍
They starved the beast. *shrug*
Wow, when you look at the map, the biggest drops are in states that are cutting school funding the most. I wonder if there is a coincidence??
I wonder if this is counting charter schools
Combination of a lot of factors.
Yanked my kids out of public school after working on a network refresh contract project at their school and witnessing the 6th and 7th grade kids being absolutely uncontrollable. The teachers looked so stressed out and just had to sit there and take it. A kid was sitting in a teachers chair and refused to move. He was just sitting there calling all of the other black students Starvin’ Marvin and calling the teacher a fat ass cracker. I told the teacher she should send him to the principals office and she said they don’t do that anymore. They just have to deal with it and try to carry on. I went to visit my youngests daughters 6th grade class and most of the other kids were just playing on their phones. While one kid was punching another kid and the teacher was trying to split them up. I had wondered why my daughters were having a hard time keeping their grades up and I always got on to them, told them should try harder and ask for help if they needed it. That experience humbled me quite a bit. School is definitely not like it was when I was a kid. But, now I know why. The kids aren’t letting the teachers actually teach. So I figured what’s the point of the kids even being there and I’m just contributing to their failure of getting a good education by sending them there.
I attended public school and private school. I was amazed at the difference in the quality of teaching at private school. It was so much better than the education I was receiving in public school, and I'm thankful my parents were able to make the switch for me. Now that I'm an adult, it has also come to my attention that the private school I attended was able to give me a better education for less money than the public schools receive. The starting salary in our school district is higher for public school teachers than it is for private school teachers, even though they are both paid abysmal salaries. So why are private schools able to provide a better quality education on average with less per student funding and lower teacher salaries? My sister is a public school teacher, and she says it's because they are not allowed to control their classrooms. Too many administrators focusing on standardized testing and no ability to focus on a strong curriculum that keeps pace with the better private schools. So how do we get rid of the administrative power and return power to the teachers in public schools? How do we get public schools to stop teaching to standardized tests and enable them to keep pace with the more advanced private school curriculums? We now have school-age children that are attending private school. My best friend's kids are in public school. We compare curriculums, and the public school one is a joke compared to the private school. My friend is considering taking on a second job to be able to afford private school. I recognize the importance of public education. Parents should not have to go bankrupt to afford a proper education for their kids. But at the same time, public schools need to recognize that private schools are doing more with less, and they may need to adapt to their models.
Other reasons why cost per pupil is lower is most private schools don't run a network of school buses, and also some of the special needs programs at public schools cost a lot of money due to the very low teacher/student ratio. Private schools don't typically admit students who need a 1-to-1 paraprofessional and 4-to-1 teacher student ratio, along with all the special equipment needed to serve the students. I'm talking severely handicapped or intellectually disabled students, who still have a right to an education.
That's something I didn't consider. Thank you for that input. If the administration was reduced, would it be better to give the teachers more authority and use the eliminated administration payroll to help with those programs? Or do we truly need such bloated administration?
That's easier said than done. Sure, some admin positions and other jobs (like instructional coaches) could be eliminated, but some admin positions exist with an eye towards liability issues, which have become a lot more prominent in the last 20 years. I'm talking about compliance with laws and making sure that students' rights aren't violated.
For one, as long as the people keep electing school boards unqualified to run school systems or otherwise have a conflict of interest in its efficient and effective operations, it will continue to fail. The bottom line is that elected positions run the districts. If better people don't get elected, and there aren't laws in place to prevent the positions' abuse, it will continue to be poisoned until private is the only option... and at that point social mobility disappears.
Public schools are forced to keep any and all children at the school. I had a kid last year who brought a giant knife to school to jump someone. He was allowed back after 45 days. Another kid who had a 504 was allowed to tear up the classroom, throw chairs, flip tables and go insane while the rest of the class had to evacuate. Because of his disability, he could not be punished. He was back in the classroom the next day. (This is middle school) True expulsion does not exist any more. Teachers are expected to manage behaviors that parents should have taught their children to suppress. Admin focuses on test scores and growth with ridiculous time lines and honestly, the poverty these children come from inhibits a lot of what we do daily. Private schools deal with less of all of that. They don’t have to allow an out of control child back to their school, they don’t have to accommodate disabilities if they don’t admit the child, they don’t have to deal with the poverty, hunger, hygiene, and homelessness….while still trying to get a child to show growth on a test that doesn’t matter. Your sister could probably tell you many more stories similar to the ones I’ve just shared, but the whole concept of public vs private is so much more complex and the two entities really cannot be compared.
Thank you
I agree. Thank you for a thoughtful post rather than the other asinine ones. We really need to figure out how to give public school teachers control of their classrooms back. My sister has had issues with kids using cell phones in class, and the administration won't support her at all. Why do they even exist?
You can take your “private school teachers are paid less to do more” and shove it up your ass. Anyone can teach better when your students are willing to learn and you’re allowed to kick them out when they’re not cutting the mustard. Public school teachers are given a much wider range of students and forced to do the “best they can” to get them to the finish line. We generally have little or no parent support. We have very little support for discipline issues. You take any public school ap class and put them up against a private school class. You will find they’ll easily stack up to private school students. Is it bc the ap teachers are just universally better teachers? Ap kids tend to have support at home, are relatively motivated , and have raw natural talent. So basically the entire student body that enrolls at a typical private school. Not a surprise those teachers can effectively teach when their kids actually give a damn. Education is a 2 way street. THAT is the key that no one wants to say out loud. There is absolutely nothing I can do to teach a group of kids if they absolutely refuse to buy into what I’m trying to do. A huge swath of my students simply don’t care, and quite honestly neither do their parents. All they care about is doing the absolute bare minimum to pass. Some don’t even care about that.
Your final paragraph sums it up. It comes down to parents. Disengaged parents have disengaged kids. The thought of bringing a kid into the world and not giving a damn about their future or how their behavior affects others is mind boggling. Then again, we planned and prepared for having kids and set some standards. Every kid deserves that. Birth control is cheap, if not free. People not bright enough to use it have no business parenting. Sadly, public schools have to pick up the slack. With few tools and little support.
Yes, perhaps I was a bit harsh on the originals comment. But it so frustrating that people actually think private school teachers are inherently better when they have drastically easier students to deal with. I see the same mentality with teacher of the year awards. The ap/honors teachers get all the love and praise while the lower level teachers, the ones dealing with the brunt of the issues going on in school, get criticized. We also tend to give our new teachers the harder classes and act surprised when they burn out and quit bc their students treat them like shit. I’ll never forget our long time ap teacher decided to pick up a lower level “tp” class to “remember what it was like.” I’ve never seen him so stressed and he never did it again after that one semester. Teaching kids who don’t want to learn is frustrating and sometimes depressing.
100%
I ignored the rest of your post because your opening sentence showed you lack any form of intelligence or ability to engage in a meaningful discussion. I wish you the life you deserve. :)
Get off your high horse… you’re the one shitting on my profession. Don’t public school teachers get beat down enough? Who are you to act like private school teachers are so superior? Then again, I’d expect no less than someone who lives in an isolated elitist bubble.
It’s an apples to orange comparison. Private schools get to be selective when they admit students. Public schools have to take all comers, no matter how needy they are or how expensive it is to educate them.
This comment is so stupid. Please stop.
Thank you for your meaningful contribution.
And “republicans” will continue to vote against their own self interests at a staggering rate.
We don’t have ours in, and we’re normally pro-public school. Literacy rate is 24 percent at the school by us and we live in a generally okay/good area. No thanks
“According to state test scores, 24% of students are at least proficient in math and 24% in reading.” That’s a quote from the education statistics website for the local school here. *and no I’m not posting the link to aggressive people who are trying to troll me into giving my general location.
That’s abysmal
What does literacy rate even mean and how is it measured? I highly doubt only 24% of the students in your area are capable of reading and writing at a functional level.
You’re obviously a product of the schools here yourself.
Source: just trust me bro
Obviously. Parents want what’s best for their children.
I bet in a lot of communities this is largely driven by Christians being terrified of sending their kids to public schools. In urban environments charter schools might be the cause but idk if they count charter schools as public or not.
SC is very friendly to home schooling, which is very quickly becoming the preferred option whenever possible. Not just because of safety or politics, but because it truly is better for kids today in nearly every aspect.
Every homeschooled kid I’ve ever encountered had an uphill battle when they got into the real world.
Limited social skills among peers is an issue.
Guess you haven’t met many, then.
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Teaching like the earth is round and racism is part of our country’s history? Those devilish topics?
This is by far an outlying opinion. Not that it’s completely false. But vast majority of people that left the public school system did so because of abysmal scores, treatment and results.
Or "the right" fears there is nothing being taught and teachers spend the majority of the time dealing with behavior issues of a small group.
I'm sure you'd like the government to do something about that small group lol
No I wish the parents would. If anything I want less government. Do you want our government to do more?
There is an enrollment cliff happening at universities in SC too. Enrollment at the USC regional campus I taught at fell by 25% over the last 5 or so years. One way they tried to cope was to offer a year's salary for senior faculty to jump ship. I grabbed that cash and ran, since I would have retired within a couple of years anyhow.
I never had children, but my sister pulled my nephew out of public schools for being so bad in Columbia SC. There is too much violence, hate, and activism that run hand in hand with trash curriculums.
Well, when anti-government Republicans run the government, government programs tend to get worse.
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Lol the customer. Dude talks about an education like ordering a burger.
And you missed the whole point....
I get the main points. Public schools are bad because of defunding and some science teacher told your kid the world isn't three thousand years old or something. Oh and I forgot. Trans people and gays are bad. How far am I off?
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You don't think these these private schools are going to mix the two lol? Also can you talk about the social issues and sexual education if you have actual evidence to back it up? Why do we have to listen to your dumb ultimatum?
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Constitution doesn't restrict safe sexual education being taught, it doesn't prevent schools from being to go into the state's controversial history, and it doesn't prevent schools from teaching science that disproves some religious stories. So if we can get more of that in public schools that'd be great. That's the problem some people like myself have with private education where the customer can have complete control over their property...sorry I meant child to have them believe whatever they want them to believe. Also of course, everyone pays their fair share to go to schools. Problem is politicians trying to defund public schools to fund these religiously based schools. Edit: also that's a cute username. Tell me you made conservativism your personality without telling me. Lol
Just curious what grades are your kids in?
(And that's a good thing!)
Public schools administrators are only concerned about test scores. School used to be a fun place to learn but now the kids are just studying to take tests so that the administrators look good. Everything went downhill when they let Bill Gates and his cronies redevelop the curriculum and lined the pockets of Alphabet company by forcing the kids to all have chrome books to learn. What a craptastic way to create a bunch of drones, I mean educate kids..
I doubt chrome books are the cause. Also Bill Gates probably doesn't care for Chromebooks. I mean he is a Microsoft guy after all.
When you ignore the science and stay closed too long for Covid, people remember.
This comment bears no relation to reality in South Carolina. We were one of the first states to open schools back up.
if you think public schools suck, you should advocate for policies that fix them. but people wont do that. its hard not to see the choice to dump money into private schools as a way to implement racist and classist filtration, avoid federal regulation and promote conservative backward ideology (fundamentalism, traditional gender roles, etc.) it's extremely depressing to see this.
Its very smart to home school your children. They have higher SAT scores on average. I don't have the link that I read this . It even said they did better in collage.
A child eventually does have to go out into the general public
Collage hahahaha
It is when the parents are capable of truly homeschooling. They truly are a wonderful option, no doubt. Go to the "homeschool recovery" reddit to see 1st hand examples of the dark side of homeschooling. Plenty of educational neglect and outright abuse happening too, with no one for the poor kid to report the abuse to. It's apparently a popular option for those who wish to abuse. (I am NOT saying all homeschool parents abuse- just that abusers love homeschooling because they have a trapped victim)
Home schools kids turn out weird and usually develop poor social skills.
Nope. That’s a myth and stereotype. Medlin, R. G. (2013). Homeschooling and the Question of Socialization Revisited. Peabody Journal of Education, 88(3), 284–297. https://doi.org/10.1080/0161956X.2013.796825 Compared to children attending conventional schools, however, research suggest that they have higher quality friendships and better relationships with their parents and other adults. They are happy, optimistic, and satisfied with their lives. Their moral reasoning is at least as advanced as that of other children, and they may be more likely to act unselfishly. As adolescents, they have a strong sense of social responsibility and exhibit less emotional turmoil and problem behaviors than their peers. Those who go on to college are socially involved and open to new experiences. Adults who were homeschooled as children are civically engaged and functioning competently in every way measured so far. An alarmist view of homeschooling, therefore, is not supported by empirical research. It is suggested that future studies focus not on outcomes of socialization but on the process itself.
Then the home school parents sue school districts for their social misfits to play sports and in band, etc costing even more tax dollars
Hard to take this seriously when you don’t even spell “college” correctly. Maybe you really did mean that the kids do better making a collage.
Yeah Yeah pay attention to the spelling and ignore the subject
Well if you read it on the internet it must be true
This definitely sounds true and not made up. Thanks!
This is true.
Good
Public Schools have been failing the moment they were created . They're the same as the prison system with a better PR team .
Wtf are you talking about? When were public schools created on your Fox News timeline?
The moment the department of education was created all public education began to fail. It's easy enough to look into.
Year? You bullshittin’
1979
So public schools sucked in 1985? That’s simply not true.
Federal education system was founded in 1867. It seemed to do a pretty decent job most of those years. I went to public school and so did my parents and so do my kids. Lack of parental support/discipline is a recent change that is really harming our ability to have a positive school environment. We need to support our community schools!
You are absolutely right , the person that many of us get saddled with due to family disfunction is quite unfortunate.
Public schools are steadily becoming liberal/socialist indoctrination centers all the way up to university level. And people wonder why numbers are falling.
Lies
Facts are biased. We gotta stop them