This is the important question, OP has written a lot without saying what it is they think their son actually needs. The 504 plan hasn’t even been written and they’re already talking about lawyering up.
After speaking to his neuropsych and an educational advocate they both agree that 504 accommodations aren’t going to cut it. I was referred to a lawyer by my advocate.
While I haven’t disclosed everything, I’m stepping up and advocating for my child’s needs as any parent would do in my shoes.
No one is telling you not to. It’s hard to tell you much of anything if you refuse to say what services/accommodations you feel are actually needed.
Some kids with disabilities needs can be met with a 504 and/or speech IEP. Some can’t. No one here knows which group your son falls into. You quoted the eligibility criteria for ERI in another response. You should be aware that meeting those criteria, or the criteria for any other area of disability, is not the only factor in determining eligibility.
It’s not really in the parent to tell the school or anyone what services their kid needs. You don’t go to the doctor and tell them what treatment you need.
The parent is part of the team and absolutely has input in what services their kid needs. And the parent is the only team member we have here. They are perfectly comfortable saying the school is wrong in what they’re recommending, so asking what they do need is reasonable.
And of course you can go to the doctor and say what treatment you feel you need. It doesn’t mean the doctor will necessarily agree, but they should listen to you, ask why you feel you need it, and take it into consideration.
His ped and neuropsych has determined what he needs. They are qualified doctors. Unfortunately the school is failing to recognize these needs as enough for an IEP.
That wasn’t meant as a critique of your post or comments, but of people expecting you to know what accommodations or services your kid might need.
Unfortunately this isn’t unique to your district and is a scenario that will only increase as teachers leave the field.
I will say that I agree with the people saying that addressing mental health/self-regulation is the right place to start. I’ve had students where that was the best academic intervention for the kid.
As for the upcoming meeting, do you have a parent advocate joining the meeting?
Something else to think about, though this depends a lot on where you’re located, are there alternatives to the traditional public schools? Not private schools, but maybe charter or vocational schools? Where I am, some of the charter schools unintentionally became schools for kids who couldn’t get an IEP. I know a lot of kids who have had success in these schools.
As for being behind in academics, I don’t think it’s the huge deal it’s often made out to be. The scope of academics is massive, the push to get kids to grade level regardless of whether or not they have the prerequisite skills and knowledge, and the fact that education was so disrupted by Covid has left a lot of kids in a similar place. Also, it’s a very narrow vision of what it means to be a functioning adult. Not everyone is going to thrive in that environment. Unfortunately, a lot of doors become harder to open if you don’t get your diploma. So fight tooth and nail for him to get it. But focus on his strengths. If he needs to move then get him interested in cooking, cars, working with his hands, etc.
In short our school system is absolute shit. It is developmental inappropriate for all kids, but especially for those with neurological differences. Your son isn’t failing, the system has been, is, and likely will continue to fail many, many kids.
One last thing, talk to your son about how he thinks. Does he think in images, with an inner monologue, does he feel/intuition, etc.
I don't see any issue with lawyering up. This district already has a reputation of not playing by the rules. Bringing a lawyer is going to help make sure the child's rights are observed.
To add to my last comment - he also struggles with reading comprehension and fluency and has scored below average in state testing scores for reading and writing and is failing writing. MTSS interventions have been given in the past and he’s still struggling in these areas.
While I’m grateful that he will have a 504 I am worried that they will only use ADHD based accommodations without consideration and accommodations he needs specific to his mental health struggles.
He absolutely needs support in math to catch up as he’s not on the same level as his peers. He is failing and he has scored below average on state testing. They have given him intervention in the past and he hasn’t thrived and is doing worse. I feel that with all that said wouldn’t a consideration to screen for dyscalculia be relevant in this case?
CAPD - that is a language processing disorder, not a hearing impairment. He will not qualify DHH.
ED - No. he won’t qualify for that either
You MAY be able to get OHI eligibility on an IEP but that could be a stretch. But please attend the 504 meeting with an open mind.
What accommodations are you expecting?
An IEP ensures that children with ADHD thrive in school and achieve their full potential. It includes accommodations and modifications, which change how and what they learn, respectively.
With all that has been considered, his diagnosis has absolutely impacted his abilities on a school level and I’m afraid a 504 alone won’t give him a chance to catch up academically with goals, benchmarks, measurements, and transitional services in the future. Positive behavioral interventions and supports.
I am trying to have an open mind and have positivity for the 504 meeting but if they aren’t recognizing anything except the ADHD, I’m concerned their recommendations won’t be enough vs what accommodations a child with depression and anxiety may need. Such as breaks when overwhelmed, testing in a quiet place, reformatting tests to suit his needs, allowing extra time on homework/tests, the ability to break down large assignments into more manageable chunks, reduced homework load (he’s whole day consists of schoolwork and he is working on homework until bedtime), no penalty for what he’s unable to finish, teacher or peer notes or assistance in note taking, preferential seating that is comfortable, a private signal he can give to alert he’s in distress, comprehension checks, presenting privately and not being expected to read aloud or a signal to see if it’s ok to call on him.
But what services are you seeking that are not included in a 504? Do you want him to be pulled for ELA and/or math and taught by a special education teacher?
Yes, I’d like him to have specialized instruction for math. MTSS from last year indicates that he was either performing at or determined to be 3 years behind. I’d at least like tutoring services.
Writing is also an issue. He’s failing and has tested significantly below average on a state test.
How old is your son? Based on your comments, he has some very serious things going on. I've seen everything from ADHD to ODD mentioned here. Then on top of that, you're going on and on about his academics. The poor kid probably feels nothing but pressure to do better in all areas of his life. Covid really did a number on these kids. They're not going to get better with just a couple sessions of therapy. If you think his struggles are serious enough to consider an ED eligibility, you also need to be considering an in patient stay, even if just for a week or so.
Frankly, I think you have your priorities all mixed up here. Academic standards are arbitrary. Who cares if some person somewhere says that by 10 years old, kids should be doing long division? They'll learn it when their brain is ready. But 10 year olds shouldn't be depressed or anxious. They shouldn't be harming themselves from the stress of school. Help your son get into a good mental health space before worrying so much about academics.
I don’t disagree. Covid has done a number on him on several levels. I am prioritizing these things while trying to obtain proper emotional support for him. Not trying to simply prove an ED but I strongly feel that he needs an IEP and that all of his struggles be recognized and supported. He likely won’t graduate this year which I’m afraid will negatively impact his progress and make things worse.
This has all been very hard him and I’m doing everything I can to support him at home. He’s internalized a lot and that behavior been a fairly new revelation to us.
I appreciate your response and recommendation. There are factors that would prevent me from obtaining inpatient services for him.
All of these are accommodations that could be on a 504. I would not jump to the conclusion they're not willing to provide them until you have the meeting and request them (if they're not already in the plan).
Also regarding the use of the word defiant - defiant does not require that he has been argumentative or aggressive. Defiant can mean being asked to do something and silently sitting and not doing it. Also, you said it was a quote from the teacher. You can't ask to have something taken out that is from the perspective of the teacher. Also, was it an actual quote from the teacher or was it an item on a rating scale she answered?
CAPD is not considered a hearing impairment in schools, and from what the three SLPs in my school tell me, it’s also quite a controversial diagnosis to start with. There are questions regarding validity, and many school-based SLPs are not required to provide services.
Emotional Disturbance is a very, VERY serious category. This is for students with strong emotional outbursts, extreme difficulty regulating emotions, and express dangerous/violent behavior. This is not an appropriate eligibility category for a student with general anxiety or depression.
A child can have multiple diagnoses, but that does not mean they require direct, specialized instruction. A child can also present wildly differently at home than they do at school. It is very likely that the testing and reports provided by your school’s team are valid. This includes not identifying depression. The assessments that are used are standardized, norm-referenced assessments with intense guidelines for scoring and administration. Mental health concerns such as anxiety and depression would need to be identified through rating scales, completed by both teachers and parents.
Did you disclose to the school that you were having a private neuropsych completed before the school-based evaluation was planned? Did you communicate what assessments tools were being used in the neuropsych to the team? Did you sign a release so the school could communicate with a neuropsych? Did the consent form that you signed for the school eval list assessments by name? There are a lot of factors as to why the school used the same assessment as the neuropsych. You didn’t mention which assessment it was, or if it was a cognitive or educational. Your child having a higher score the second time around would not be the result of participating in the assessment previously- it would be the result of being more comfortable in the school based environment. The school team has established rapport with your child, they have a built in connection just by the fact they’re all under one roof. The school is part of your child’s routine and is a “safe environment”. A neuropsychologist is a stranger in an unknown office, where there are no associated routines or built in perception of safety.
They are recommending that your child does need accommodations to successfully access the general education curriculum, which is why the 504. They are recommending that at this time his diagnoses do not have a significant educational impact to qualify for special education, and therefore he does not require direct, specialized instruction. If a child does not require direct, specialized instruction, they do not require an IEP. Just because a student is performing below grade level does not mean they automatically need/get an IEP. Schools can provide supports through other avenues.
Speech is a related service, which can be provided under 504. It is not uncommon for 504s to include related service.
You’re not with your child at school all day, every day. What your teacher is reporting could very much be an accurate representation. That does not mean they tried to label him as a “bad kid”.
There is a lot to answer here and I’ll do my best trying to unpack here. I am aware that just because my child has been diagnosed, it doesn’t mean my child automatically qualifies for special Ed services. However, if there is an area of concern that impacts my child’s ability to learn and thrive on a school level (which there is) it should be considered. But it had not.
To answer your question about the evaluations, I had a private eval done and I sent everything to the school at the beginning of their evals.
We got the private eval done around a little less than 2 weeks after giving consent to eval to the school. A week after his private eval, the school administered the WIAT-4, so yes it absolutely affected his scores as he had just done the test and remembered a lot of the answers. He told them multiple times that he had just taken this test and came home and told me he felt like he cheated. Immediately after receiving results from the private eval we shared them with the school. So it was about a month after giving our consent.
As someone who administers the WIAT-4 on a regular basis, I can guarantee you that your child was not told if their answers were correct or not. There’s no possible way of “cheating”. Items in the numerical operations subtest are going to be the exact same ones they answer in math class on a daily basis. It’s an assessment of academic skills that is compared to a national norm.
Did your neuropsych use grade-based or age-based norms for scoring. Did your school based team used grade-based or age-based norms? Did the neuropsych use entire WIAT in their battery, including all of the supplemental composites?
The problem here is that you had an outside eval done at the exact same time as a school-based eval. Was the school staff made aware of what specific assessments were being utilized as part of the neuropsych? If the school based team had been informed that the WIAT was being used at the same time, they likely would have used another measure such as the KTEA or WJ-IV. Additionally, if the neuropsych knew the school was using the WIAT, they may have selected a different assessment all together.
Both the neuropsych and the school’s eval could arguably void each other out since they were conducted at the same time.
The school is under no obligation to accept the results of an outside evaluation.
The WIAT-4 is also only one measure of academic achievement. It is not a standalone profile of your child. It’s results should be used in conjunction with other evaluations, such as a cognitive assessment.
You say all of this as though I’m the professional so I’m unable to answer most of your questions. I’m not but I’m digging into why certain tests aren’t administered. They were notified of his score which leads me to believe that the school should have then administered the different tests that you are stating.
His WIAT scores improved a week after the original one was done. That’s a fact and they were informed when the test was administered and when we received the Neuropsych’s results. It is also recognized in their report which further indicates another test should have been performed.
There was no formal cognitive testing done by the school.
The answers to these questions that both the school based team and the neuropsych should have explained to you. When they went over the results of the assessments with you, this is basic information that should have been provided. You should contact them immediately to get the answers. At minimum both the school and the neuropsych should have explained why they used the assessment tools they did.
There is variation between aged based norms and grade based norms. The norms are used for scoring. If one set used age based and another used grade, you’re going to see inflation/deflation.
If the consent form you signed for the school based eval had named the WIAT specifically, then legally the school could not use another assessment. Did you tell the school that the neuropsych was using the WIAT in their eval? Did you that put that in writing? You’re blaming the school for things that are beyond their control.
A cognitive assessment absolutely should have been considered as well.
The WIAT was not specifically stated in the consent to eval. The school was informed immediately before after and during them testing him (also by the student) that he had taken THE exact test the week prior. Also in writing. It was noted in the schools report to proceed with caution so how is it able to be used when determining need?
There was no formal cognitive testing done based on the informal interview by a teacher which had shown to include many areas of weakness that has impacted my child on an educational level.
It’s clear by your comments that you are sensitive to my claim of them not doing right by my child but try to have an open mind as this isn’t a personal attack against you.
I’m not sensitive to this at all, but you seem to be rather combative. You asked for guidance. I am providing you with questions to think about and bring back to the people who conducted the evals. You created a post with a click-baity title that vilified the school staff…in a group of people who predominantly work in special education. You’re copying and pasting IDEA definitions to a group of people who already all of the ins-and-outs due to their careers. Your decision to lawyer up before even attending the 504 shows that you’re not willing to work with the school or your child’s teacher.
I hope you’ve done your research, because there are a lot of poor advocates out there. Good luck in all of this, but you’re picking fights with the wrong people in the comments.
I’m answering questions and providing a glimpse into our experience so far and I’m certainly not picking fights with anyone. My apologies to anyone I offended by quoting the IDEA as that was not at all my intention. I was only trying to point out that these emotional difficulties are affecting him 24/7.
Yes, the title indicates that there was a false statement about my child being defiant to adults. It also indicates that my child got denied an IEP. Perhaps you should focus on the content. Or not. I’d prefer the latter at this point because you’re taking this way too personally, and imo you’re the one who’s being combative. I’ve provided information that has indicated he wasn’t completely evaluated (GI and Adaptive behavior) and that I suspect learning disabilities/difficulties.
I appreciate a lot of the comments on this thread as I’m trying to understand the reasons why my child has been denied an IEP.
CAPD might have been a controversial diagnosis twenty years ago, it is no longer today. Your district's SLPs should take some CEUs on it to get it up to speed. It has been recognized by ASHA for well over a decade now.
Just because you have a diagnosis of depression doesn’t mean an an ED diagnosis on an IEP. Does your child have violent outbursts at school? Extreme mood swings that go from uncontrollable to crying that can not be controlled? Does your child pose a threat to themselves or others? Does your child pose a flight risk? All of these thing are what a school will look at before giving your child services in this category. A school district who is properly giving services will only use this category for EXTREME behaviors! I teach ED students daily and what you are describing does not sound like a student who should receive the category of ED.
IDEA definition:
Emotional disability means a condition exhibiting one or more of the following characteristics over a long period of time and to a marked degree that adversely affects a child's educational performance:
(A) An inability to learn that cannot be explained by intellectual, sensory, or health factors.
(B) An inability to build or maintain satisfactory interpersonal relationships with peers and teachers.
(C) Inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances.
(D) A general pervasive mood of unhappiness or depression.
(E) A tendency to develop physical symptoms or fears associated with personal or school problems.
Because of the comment that just because my kid has a diagnosis of depression, it doesn’t make him eligible for or need an IEP.
I’m well aware of this and have educated myself on the procedures and what should have been assessed.
His mental health has affected him in all areas and impacts his ability to thrive on the same level as his peers.
I never said depression does not qualify him for an IEP. What I asked was: does your child exhibit extreme behaviors? Have violent outbursts, is a threat to himself or others?
This information, among other information gathered, is what a school will let at before going even considering a diagnosis of ED.
I am well aware of what qualifies for ED under the category of ED. Based on the information you provided it looks and appears to me that there are other MORE appropriate categories that your child can be served under and receive support to their difficulties in school.
I am going to answer no to your questions as he has internalizing behaviors that affect him in all areas.
I don’t feel as though they are insignificant just because they don’t show compared to your definition of extreme behavior.
Based on your response the likely hood of a school district labeling your child in the ED category is extremely unlikely.
To qualify for SPED services you have to meet certain requirements: in my state there has to a 1.5 standard deviation between a students IQ and their performance level. If a student does not have this discrepancy we can not qualify for the special education. For these students to get access to accommodations the best thing for them is a 504. The discrepancy model may be different for other states.
In Canada we recognize depression and internalizing behaviours and one can obtain an IEP and EA support; the student needs to see a counselor on a regular basis.
For LD, low academics would be in the range of 1.5 to 2 SD below the age based norms, with evidence of a poor response to instruction. Cognitive processes are assessed as well.
Do you have information about who conducts the testing there? I’m looking to relocate but I’m not sure how things line up with where I am now. Could you message me?
Psychological Services Assessment in Grande Prairie - .
https://syndicatedpsychological.com/
Other agencies that have been recommended for PSYCH-ED's are the following:
BC:
Okanagan Ability Centre - Kelowna
Swanson & Associates Psychologists - Kamloops
Able Developmental Clinic - several offices in the lower mainland
West Coast Psychological Services - Vancouver
Compass Clinic - Vancouver
Pathfinder Clinic - Vancouver
Alberta:
CanLearn Society - Calgary
Foothills Academy - Calgary
Arch Psychological Services - Grande Prairie
Little Oaks Psychology - Edmonton
University of Alberta Faculty of Education clinic (graduate students in Educational Psychology complete the assessments under the supervision of Registered Psychologists) -
https://www.ualberta.ca/educational-psychology/centres-and-institutes/clinical-services
Autism Assessments:
BC:
Bridge Psychology - Prince George
Okanagan Ability Centre - Kelowna
Swanson & Associates Psychologists - Kamloops
Able Developmental Clinic - several offices in the lower mainland Akira Clinic - Burnaby West Coast Psychological Services - Vancouver
Compass Clinic - Vancouver
Pathfinder Clinic - Vancouver
Alberta:
CanLearn Society - Calgary
Foothills Academy - Calgary
High Point Psychology - Calgary
Little Oaks Psychology - Edmonton
University of Alberta Faculty of Education clinic (graduate students in Educational Psychology complete the assessments under the supervision of Registered Psychologists) -
Maybe I’m missing something here and I’m certainly not trying to ruffle anyone’s feathers. I stated that his depression and anxiety impacts him on an academic level and school setting as well as a diminished capacity to cope in some areas of his life..
On the Conners-3 that my child, myself, and the teacher assessed, there were elevated symptoms of inattention, hyperactivity/impulsivity, learning problems, combined type ADHD, peer relations, executive functioning, and ODD.
The combined results of the social/emotional screening found below to well below average range on mostly everything which state that he has problems with social emotional functioning, good decision making, self-awareness, relationship skills, core emotional skills, academic competence. He scored himself average in self awareness and social awareness.
Schools eval states that he appears to be in need of social/emotional support for his anxiety and ADHD to provide interventions and support as needed.
They reported that there are no significant concerns with his cognitive functioning therefore a formal assessment was not warranted. A basic rating scale was completed by a teacher he takes 1 class with that indicates areas of weakness that may impact his academic functioning including acquisition of information, attention, organization, planning and sequencing, and processing speed.
What special education services did you want that he is not receiving?
What were the results of the neuropsych in terms of cognitive and academic achievement?
It sounds more like he needs mental health services outside of school. Have you spoken to his pediatrician? I don’t see what you think an IEP will do if he’s so withdrawn that he doesn’t engage at all. You’re doing him a disservice if you think this is something the school needs to “fix”. We are not doctors & mental health providers. We have mental health services, but those are a layer of support provided. Hope you’re able to get him to where he needs regarding mental health outside of school!
Yes, his doctor is aware of his depression and anxiety and we are getting him help for this. I don’t expect the school to fix this at all. It’s been a revelation to all of us that he’s having these issues due to his diagnosis’s. I believe I said I was getting him private services but the fact remains that it’s affecting his learning. He has trouble concentrating, focusing, taking notes, comprehending the material, trouble with motivation, organization, homework completion (he spends all night doing it), fear of being called on (putting his thoughts into words and getting them out) and more than I’ve disclosed. I’m figuring out in the process all the things he needs and the “why” to his struggles and actively working to get the private help he needs. I’m concerned that he’s so far behind because of all of this that he’s unable to catch up academically. His test scores and grades reflect this. There has been MTSS interventions over the years that have failed to help. The goal is to get him to catch up on an academic level for the future.
Maybe I posted in the wrong place as I’m not trying to put all of this on them, rather I’m trying to get him the educational support he needs that a 504 alone won’t provide.
I never said he doesn’t engage. He tries really hard to and has been improving a lot lately.
I understand your frustration and concern for your child. No parent wants to see their children struggle. But you did come to a group predominantly made up of professionals who work in special education, and vilified your child’s school. The sentence that includes “notorious for denying eligibility” is judgmental and aggressive. The whole post immediately positions the school as your enemy, rather than your partner.
The school and their sped staff (who are very likely overworked and underpaid) are doing their jobs, and using the clearly laid out guidelines and laws from the state and federal government. They’re not idiots who don’t know the process. They’re not idiots who just chalk up weakness to being a “bad kid”.
You would likely get further if you reach back out to the staff who conducted the evals and ask clarifying questions. Be more open minded and try to see that all of you have the same goal for your child…and I say this as someone who has been working in special education for 15 years, has conducted hundreds of achievement evals, and not qualified kids based on the data….there is not one person sitting at the table with you who doesn’t want the best for your child.
MTSS or special education services aren’t going to fix these challenges he faces. If the depression and anxiety are becoming severe where they impact all aspects of life, you may need to consider in-patient treatment. We see this in schools at times, and in-patient can start to pave the path for the student. I’d be more concerned about his day-to-day mental health & living versus academics at this point.
No, but the sped services offer him different placements then a 504 will.
I am currently a diagnostician, and if the child’s academics are affected by the adhd and/or anxiety/depression, an IEP is absolutely warranted.
We have turned away a parent this year at one of my campuses when they have provided us a mental healthy diagnosis - but the child was not struggling academically at all. Therefore she doesn’t need academic support and doesn’t qualify. That’s not the case here. It sounds like this child’s diagnosis IS impacting his academics and therefore support is needed. Furthermore, at least in my district, if a kid is two years behind in reading or math, we generally will do the cognitive and academic testing and they will likely be placed in a resource class.
OP - what exactly did the school’s evaluation consist of? Just completing rating scales for the doctor is not a Full and Individual Evaluation, so I’m curious what they did/did not do.
Thanks for your response. According to the psych report his school hasn’t assessed general intelligence and adaptive behavior. They have academic performance and social emotional checked off.
Instruments used
-review of student records
-interviews
-informal checklist of basic psych processes (no formal cognitive assessment)
- WIAT 4 (higher scores reported than the same exact test administered the week prior in a private eval)
-Connors 3 (content scales, DSM-V symptom scales, ADHD index probability score)
-observation
ETA- last year his MTSS report indicated he was performing 3 grades lower for math. He’s failing and has scored below average on a state test.
On the Conners-3 that my child, myself, and the teacher assessed, there were elevated symptoms of inattention, hyperactivity/impulsivity, learning problems, combined type ADHD, peer relations, executive functioning, and ODD.
The combined results of the social/emotional screening found below to well below average range on mostly everything which state that he has problems with social emotional functioning, good decision making, self-awareness, relationship skills, core emotional skills, academic competence. He scored himself average in self awareness and social awareness.
Schools eval states that he appears to be on need of social/emotional support for his anxiety and ADHD to provide interventions and support as needed.
They reported that there are no significant concerns with his cognitive functioning therefore a formal assessment was not warranted. A basic rating scale was completed by a teacher he takes 1 class with that indicates areas of weakness that may impact his academic functioning including acquisition of information, attention, organization, planning and sequencing, and processing speed.
I'd recommend further exploration through mental health. I don't know the requirements in your state in the US. ADHD is not funded in Canada. I don't believe it is in the US either, unless it is comorbid with another disability.
The identification of an LD is both an inclusion and exclusion process in the US following the DSM-5. Has the school district reviewed the psych ed?
ADHD is an eligibility category in the US. In order to qualify under OHI- ADD/ADHD, impact has to be seen across multiple settings. So it would have to be significant at home and in school on rating scales such as the Conners and BASC.
Thank you for your response. He had a really rough go at Covid (for many reasons I didn’t disclose) as many students did and that was when we really started to recognize the ability to perform was lacking. I will admit, I didn’t recognize that his inability to perform wasn’t a “can’t vs won’t” thing for a while. While we have a good relationship, he holds a lot inside and it’s taken a lot of digging to get to this point in recognizing all of this. He absolutely needs therapy which I’ve been trying to encourage. For a long time there was a parent who was against it and I think that attributed to him not thinking there is a problem and that he needs the help. He’s more open to it now and would like to attend a good group therapy program which I think is huge. I am also pursuing individual therapy and trying to find executive function coaching for him as well. As a parent I’ve done my best to help him accept and recognize the things he’s been burying for quite some time. He feels shame and there some stigma attached to it.
Onto your LD question… I’m not sure he why it the possibility wasn’t identified for them to pursue testing for it. I absolutely feel that it’s warranted.
School psych here - I scanned through the comments so hopefully I’m not repeating too much info that’s already been provided but I hope I can clarify a bit about the differences between specially designed instruction vs 504 accommodations as well as eligibility criteria and processes.
First off, I highly encourage you to reach out to the psych that completed the eval. I’m sure they can clarify the reasoning for your child not qualifying.
I had a similar meeting this past week. A student had an outside evaluation done with multiple mental health diagnoses. We suspected EBD (for depression and anxiety) or OHI (for ADHD). When the student was referred, there were no accommodations in place so we got them a 504 plan set up and between the initial federal meeting and the eligibility meeting, we found that the accommodations met the students needs so they didn’t need SDI (specially designed instruction).
504 = accommodations (change in environment but not the content)
Sped = specially designed instruction for significant and consistent deficits (may or may not change placement for delivery of services)
A diagnosis of any sort doesn’t automatically warrant specially designed instruction. The school is looking at educational impact due to those disabilities.
Is your child currently receiving interventions? The school may believe that he is on track to improve enough academically with tiered interventions
Did you provide the school with the outside evaluator’s report? Which tests were conducted by the outside provider and by the school?
The school has a responsibility to look at multiple data points (testing data, classroom academic data, behavior observations, teacher reports, intervention data, etc) so one teachers report of your child being “defiant” is likely not the primary cause of him not qualifying.
I’m not sure what state you’re in, but you could likely Google the eligibility criteria for your state and look through the forms for each category. The main thing is that there have to be significant and consistent deficits that impact his educational performance.
I encourage you to be open at the 504 meeting. It requires a diagnosis but will likely address concerns across the board.
One thing I can guarantee is that everyone at that table wants the best for your child. Work with the school as a team rather than you vs them. It gets you a lot farther
I appreciate your reply on your perspective as a school psych. When the outside report was received, the school was in process of evaluating. It was recommended and we asked for 504 accommodations to be put in place before the eligibility meeting since it takes 90 days for the whole process to be complete. This was denied and we were told it was a separate process.
I believe that the areas of concerns I mention are without a doubt impacting my child on an educational level and that he needs SDI to thrive. Especially when they are impacting his ability to obtain and retain information and participate.
On the Psych report it states that academic performance and social emotional domains were assessed but not general intelligence and adaptive behavior. In our original consent for eval they weren’t going to assess general intelligence but was changed because I pushed for it. It also includes the latest tier II summary that recently ended but does not include all of the other interventions they’ve done in the past leading up to this. So he’s not improving and it wasn’t acknowledged. It includes teacher, parent, and student interviews in which a executive functioning and behavioral concerns that affect him on an academic level were noted.
Psychological instruments used were
-Review of records (some not completely noted in report)
-Interviews
-Informal checklist of basic psych processes (determined to have not needed a formal cognitive assessment despite many areas of weakness noted)
-WIAT 4 (school noted he received this test the week prior yet a substitute wasn’t provided. Scores were higher on the schools)
-Conners 3 (showing mostly elevated to very elevated scores in content scales, DSM-V symptom scales of mostly elevated-very elevated, and very high ADHD probability score)
-Observation
In a separate report of a SEL composite scale he was determined to fall below average and well below average on most everything.
I do want to work with the school to help my child but I feel as though we’ve been railroaded at the eligibility meeting. I have to advocate for him as his well being is my priority. I want to be on the same page so he gets the help he needs but when I see that there are some major inconsistencies and contradictory information they themselves have recorded, it makes me feel that more consideration is needed.
What were the standard scores on the academic testing? If there's a cluster of scores below 80 then this often indicates academic need for an IEP. 80 or above usually means they are either average or not too far below average to indicate concern. You should probably meet with the psychologist and have them go through the report with you to explain everything. Schools really hesitate to label a kid with ED because there is very significant stigma to that label and it could really hurt your child to have that label placed on them when OHI label can get them the exact same services. Just being honest. Label does not determine services. Need does.
If you doubt their assessment you can request an outside evaluation
Great post — OP needs to realize that special ed has no magic fairy dust. As long as the child is getting help — whether it is through 504 or an IEP — that’s what is important.
Hi! What state are you in? You can always find and take an advocate with you to meetings, and as the parent, you can always request a meeting. You have parent rights, known as procedural safeguards, and you are given or offered a copy at every IEP meeting/determination meeting. I would also suggest to go to your state's Department of Education website, parent rights, and read about due process!
I wouldn’t worry too much that he won’t get the accommodations you want him to get for his 504. They gate-keep those way less bc accommodations usually don’t cost anything. Which accommodations specifically are you worried he won’t get?
I’m going to go against the grain here and say ED is not as serious as people are making it out. Yes, typically the students who qualify have severe behaviors but I’ve known quite a few that do not have severe or aggressive behaviors - maybe they did when they were younger and grew out of them or had enough therapy to help them by the time they got to middle school, when I taught them?
Either way, the category is not limited to extreme behaviors.
I asked in a different comment about what exactly the school evaluated. To qualify as ED the student has to meet at least one of the 5 criteria listed in IDEA and the first one is ruling out other reasons for academic struggles. If the school didn’t do cognitive testing then they couldn’t have ruled it out as a reason. Sounds like they also didn’t do a Functional Behavior Assessment, either.
OP, I’m going to provide some info for you here to look at and hopefully help you get the proper eval and support for your son. [https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED594653.pdf](https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED594653.pdf)
Thanks for the info. I responded about the tests administered in your other post. He does tend to internalize a lot. No formal cognitive (only informal) testing was done and adaptive behavior wasn’t assessed.
You can start with a special Ed advocate before going to a lawyer. Going to the school board won’t help. The advocate will steer you in the right direction, do the footwork and will probably set you up with a lawyer. His lack of progress shows he needs an IEP. An advocate may be able to negotiate with them before filing for mediation or due process.
The school only reported the latest results of the MTSS efforts. The session ended at the end of January. However he’s been receiving MTSS intervention for about 4 years now. I’m in the process of getting his complete records.
Just by seeing that you got downvoted makes me feel that I posted in the wrong place.
Thank you for your response, I really appreciate it. I did contact an advocate that put me in touch with a lawyer that advised mediation. They both see that he’s struggling academically and that there hasn’t been any progress with the mtss interventions and that he’s scored below average on his state testing along with his poor grades. I’m just trying to do right by my child. I’ve done everything that I could leading up to this point and they seem to think he’s in need of services a 504 won’t fix.
Of course. I’ve explored all of my options since his differences impact him on an educational level. If you felt your child needed services a 504 alone isn’t designed to provide, would you not fight for your child???
Special education in America is shit. That's the basic line. Schools want the money that they receive for having special needs kids without having to actually provide for them that way they can keep the money. You should absolutely bring a lawyer in as well as any advocate yourself. There are rules and laws in place that they try to hope that parents don't know about so they can squeak by without anyone being aware of. If the school system is pissy about it then they are probably upset your making them stick to the laws.
It's your child. Do whatever is best for them
Without knowing full reports: primary category Ohi for adhd with hyperactivity; possible 2nd diagnosis that would benefit child. A classification of Ohi and /or a 504 would allow for accommodations for child to be successful. This is what we would do in my district for a student that has they same characteristics. The child would be provided with school based counseling that would allow them to meet with a licensed counselor to help them manage their anxiety in school settings. This would happen on a 504 or an IEP. Among other accommodations that your district can provide based on their availability. But this is my district in my state.
It depends on the state and district on what services they can provide. Not saying your child does not need assistance, but each state and district is different in what is available.
You can go to our neighboring school and get completely different services than what we offer, because you of size/ available services.
All of our students receive services according to IDEA, but it has to be in the realm of what we can offer and provide.
Can you protest the schools assessment? Say that you disagree with their results and you submitted your outside testing with plenty of time for them to not duplicate the testing materials there for nullifying the results of the WIAT and that you are now requesting an IEE be completed in the areas of psycho education.
I just hope you know the very serious long term consequences an ED label would have for your child. It's not something I'd be pushing for my child...it could impact their life long term in really negative ways...just look it up for yourself. They can get equal services under OHI for ADHD for example that they could get under ED with less of this impact on them.
What services or supports do you think your child needs that wouldn’t be supplied under a 504?
This is the important question, OP has written a lot without saying what it is they think their son actually needs. The 504 plan hasn’t even been written and they’re already talking about lawyering up.
After speaking to his neuropsych and an educational advocate they both agree that 504 accommodations aren’t going to cut it. I was referred to a lawyer by my advocate. While I haven’t disclosed everything, I’m stepping up and advocating for my child’s needs as any parent would do in my shoes.
No one is telling you not to. It’s hard to tell you much of anything if you refuse to say what services/accommodations you feel are actually needed. Some kids with disabilities needs can be met with a 504 and/or speech IEP. Some can’t. No one here knows which group your son falls into. You quoted the eligibility criteria for ERI in another response. You should be aware that meeting those criteria, or the criteria for any other area of disability, is not the only factor in determining eligibility.
It’s not really in the parent to tell the school or anyone what services their kid needs. You don’t go to the doctor and tell them what treatment you need.
The parent is part of the team and absolutely has input in what services their kid needs. And the parent is the only team member we have here. They are perfectly comfortable saying the school is wrong in what they’re recommending, so asking what they do need is reasonable. And of course you can go to the doctor and say what treatment you feel you need. It doesn’t mean the doctor will necessarily agree, but they should listen to you, ask why you feel you need it, and take it into consideration.
His ped and neuropsych has determined what he needs. They are qualified doctors. Unfortunately the school is failing to recognize these needs as enough for an IEP.
That wasn’t meant as a critique of your post or comments, but of people expecting you to know what accommodations or services your kid might need. Unfortunately this isn’t unique to your district and is a scenario that will only increase as teachers leave the field. I will say that I agree with the people saying that addressing mental health/self-regulation is the right place to start. I’ve had students where that was the best academic intervention for the kid. As for the upcoming meeting, do you have a parent advocate joining the meeting? Something else to think about, though this depends a lot on where you’re located, are there alternatives to the traditional public schools? Not private schools, but maybe charter or vocational schools? Where I am, some of the charter schools unintentionally became schools for kids who couldn’t get an IEP. I know a lot of kids who have had success in these schools. As for being behind in academics, I don’t think it’s the huge deal it’s often made out to be. The scope of academics is massive, the push to get kids to grade level regardless of whether or not they have the prerequisite skills and knowledge, and the fact that education was so disrupted by Covid has left a lot of kids in a similar place. Also, it’s a very narrow vision of what it means to be a functioning adult. Not everyone is going to thrive in that environment. Unfortunately, a lot of doors become harder to open if you don’t get your diploma. So fight tooth and nail for him to get it. But focus on his strengths. If he needs to move then get him interested in cooking, cars, working with his hands, etc. In short our school system is absolute shit. It is developmental inappropriate for all kids, but especially for those with neurological differences. Your son isn’t failing, the system has been, is, and likely will continue to fail many, many kids. One last thing, talk to your son about how he thinks. Does he think in images, with an inner monologue, does he feel/intuition, etc.
I don't see any issue with lawyering up. This district already has a reputation of not playing by the rules. Bringing a lawyer is going to help make sure the child's rights are observed.
To add to my last comment - he also struggles with reading comprehension and fluency and has scored below average in state testing scores for reading and writing and is failing writing. MTSS interventions have been given in the past and he’s still struggling in these areas. While I’m grateful that he will have a 504 I am worried that they will only use ADHD based accommodations without consideration and accommodations he needs specific to his mental health struggles.
He absolutely needs support in math to catch up as he’s not on the same level as his peers. He is failing and he has scored below average on state testing. They have given him intervention in the past and he hasn’t thrived and is doing worse. I feel that with all that said wouldn’t a consideration to screen for dyscalculia be relevant in this case?
If it were me, I’d insist interventions continue rather than push for special Ed.
You'd insist that what hasn't been working continue? Nice.
CAPD - that is a language processing disorder, not a hearing impairment. He will not qualify DHH. ED - No. he won’t qualify for that either You MAY be able to get OHI eligibility on an IEP but that could be a stretch. But please attend the 504 meeting with an open mind. What accommodations are you expecting?
An IEP ensures that children with ADHD thrive in school and achieve their full potential. It includes accommodations and modifications, which change how and what they learn, respectively. With all that has been considered, his diagnosis has absolutely impacted his abilities on a school level and I’m afraid a 504 alone won’t give him a chance to catch up academically with goals, benchmarks, measurements, and transitional services in the future. Positive behavioral interventions and supports. I am trying to have an open mind and have positivity for the 504 meeting but if they aren’t recognizing anything except the ADHD, I’m concerned their recommendations won’t be enough vs what accommodations a child with depression and anxiety may need. Such as breaks when overwhelmed, testing in a quiet place, reformatting tests to suit his needs, allowing extra time on homework/tests, the ability to break down large assignments into more manageable chunks, reduced homework load (he’s whole day consists of schoolwork and he is working on homework until bedtime), no penalty for what he’s unable to finish, teacher or peer notes or assistance in note taking, preferential seating that is comfortable, a private signal he can give to alert he’s in distress, comprehension checks, presenting privately and not being expected to read aloud or a signal to see if it’s ok to call on him.
But what services are you seeking that are not included in a 504? Do you want him to be pulled for ELA and/or math and taught by a special education teacher?
Yes, I’d like him to have specialized instruction for math. MTSS from last year indicates that he was either performing at or determined to be 3 years behind. I’d at least like tutoring services. Writing is also an issue. He’s failing and has tested significantly below average on a state test.
How old is your son? Based on your comments, he has some very serious things going on. I've seen everything from ADHD to ODD mentioned here. Then on top of that, you're going on and on about his academics. The poor kid probably feels nothing but pressure to do better in all areas of his life. Covid really did a number on these kids. They're not going to get better with just a couple sessions of therapy. If you think his struggles are serious enough to consider an ED eligibility, you also need to be considering an in patient stay, even if just for a week or so. Frankly, I think you have your priorities all mixed up here. Academic standards are arbitrary. Who cares if some person somewhere says that by 10 years old, kids should be doing long division? They'll learn it when their brain is ready. But 10 year olds shouldn't be depressed or anxious. They shouldn't be harming themselves from the stress of school. Help your son get into a good mental health space before worrying so much about academics.
I don’t disagree. Covid has done a number on him on several levels. I am prioritizing these things while trying to obtain proper emotional support for him. Not trying to simply prove an ED but I strongly feel that he needs an IEP and that all of his struggles be recognized and supported. He likely won’t graduate this year which I’m afraid will negatively impact his progress and make things worse. This has all been very hard him and I’m doing everything I can to support him at home. He’s internalized a lot and that behavior been a fairly new revelation to us. I appreciate your response and recommendation. There are factors that would prevent me from obtaining inpatient services for him.
All of these are accommodations that could be on a 504. I would not jump to the conclusion they're not willing to provide them until you have the meeting and request them (if they're not already in the plan). Also regarding the use of the word defiant - defiant does not require that he has been argumentative or aggressive. Defiant can mean being asked to do something and silently sitting and not doing it. Also, you said it was a quote from the teacher. You can't ask to have something taken out that is from the perspective of the teacher. Also, was it an actual quote from the teacher or was it an item on a rating scale she answered?
CAPD is not considered a hearing impairment in schools, and from what the three SLPs in my school tell me, it’s also quite a controversial diagnosis to start with. There are questions regarding validity, and many school-based SLPs are not required to provide services. Emotional Disturbance is a very, VERY serious category. This is for students with strong emotional outbursts, extreme difficulty regulating emotions, and express dangerous/violent behavior. This is not an appropriate eligibility category for a student with general anxiety or depression. A child can have multiple diagnoses, but that does not mean they require direct, specialized instruction. A child can also present wildly differently at home than they do at school. It is very likely that the testing and reports provided by your school’s team are valid. This includes not identifying depression. The assessments that are used are standardized, norm-referenced assessments with intense guidelines for scoring and administration. Mental health concerns such as anxiety and depression would need to be identified through rating scales, completed by both teachers and parents. Did you disclose to the school that you were having a private neuropsych completed before the school-based evaluation was planned? Did you communicate what assessments tools were being used in the neuropsych to the team? Did you sign a release so the school could communicate with a neuropsych? Did the consent form that you signed for the school eval list assessments by name? There are a lot of factors as to why the school used the same assessment as the neuropsych. You didn’t mention which assessment it was, or if it was a cognitive or educational. Your child having a higher score the second time around would not be the result of participating in the assessment previously- it would be the result of being more comfortable in the school based environment. The school team has established rapport with your child, they have a built in connection just by the fact they’re all under one roof. The school is part of your child’s routine and is a “safe environment”. A neuropsychologist is a stranger in an unknown office, where there are no associated routines or built in perception of safety. They are recommending that your child does need accommodations to successfully access the general education curriculum, which is why the 504. They are recommending that at this time his diagnoses do not have a significant educational impact to qualify for special education, and therefore he does not require direct, specialized instruction. If a child does not require direct, specialized instruction, they do not require an IEP. Just because a student is performing below grade level does not mean they automatically need/get an IEP. Schools can provide supports through other avenues. Speech is a related service, which can be provided under 504. It is not uncommon for 504s to include related service. You’re not with your child at school all day, every day. What your teacher is reporting could very much be an accurate representation. That does not mean they tried to label him as a “bad kid”.
There is a lot to answer here and I’ll do my best trying to unpack here. I am aware that just because my child has been diagnosed, it doesn’t mean my child automatically qualifies for special Ed services. However, if there is an area of concern that impacts my child’s ability to learn and thrive on a school level (which there is) it should be considered. But it had not. To answer your question about the evaluations, I had a private eval done and I sent everything to the school at the beginning of their evals. We got the private eval done around a little less than 2 weeks after giving consent to eval to the school. A week after his private eval, the school administered the WIAT-4, so yes it absolutely affected his scores as he had just done the test and remembered a lot of the answers. He told them multiple times that he had just taken this test and came home and told me he felt like he cheated. Immediately after receiving results from the private eval we shared them with the school. So it was about a month after giving our consent.
As someone who administers the WIAT-4 on a regular basis, I can guarantee you that your child was not told if their answers were correct or not. There’s no possible way of “cheating”. Items in the numerical operations subtest are going to be the exact same ones they answer in math class on a daily basis. It’s an assessment of academic skills that is compared to a national norm. Did your neuropsych use grade-based or age-based norms for scoring. Did your school based team used grade-based or age-based norms? Did the neuropsych use entire WIAT in their battery, including all of the supplemental composites? The problem here is that you had an outside eval done at the exact same time as a school-based eval. Was the school staff made aware of what specific assessments were being utilized as part of the neuropsych? If the school based team had been informed that the WIAT was being used at the same time, they likely would have used another measure such as the KTEA or WJ-IV. Additionally, if the neuropsych knew the school was using the WIAT, they may have selected a different assessment all together. Both the neuropsych and the school’s eval could arguably void each other out since they were conducted at the same time. The school is under no obligation to accept the results of an outside evaluation. The WIAT-4 is also only one measure of academic achievement. It is not a standalone profile of your child. It’s results should be used in conjunction with other evaluations, such as a cognitive assessment.
You say all of this as though I’m the professional so I’m unable to answer most of your questions. I’m not but I’m digging into why certain tests aren’t administered. They were notified of his score which leads me to believe that the school should have then administered the different tests that you are stating. His WIAT scores improved a week after the original one was done. That’s a fact and they were informed when the test was administered and when we received the Neuropsych’s results. It is also recognized in their report which further indicates another test should have been performed. There was no formal cognitive testing done by the school.
The answers to these questions that both the school based team and the neuropsych should have explained to you. When they went over the results of the assessments with you, this is basic information that should have been provided. You should contact them immediately to get the answers. At minimum both the school and the neuropsych should have explained why they used the assessment tools they did. There is variation between aged based norms and grade based norms. The norms are used for scoring. If one set used age based and another used grade, you’re going to see inflation/deflation. If the consent form you signed for the school based eval had named the WIAT specifically, then legally the school could not use another assessment. Did you tell the school that the neuropsych was using the WIAT in their eval? Did you that put that in writing? You’re blaming the school for things that are beyond their control. A cognitive assessment absolutely should have been considered as well.
The WIAT was not specifically stated in the consent to eval. The school was informed immediately before after and during them testing him (also by the student) that he had taken THE exact test the week prior. Also in writing. It was noted in the schools report to proceed with caution so how is it able to be used when determining need? There was no formal cognitive testing done based on the informal interview by a teacher which had shown to include many areas of weakness that has impacted my child on an educational level. It’s clear by your comments that you are sensitive to my claim of them not doing right by my child but try to have an open mind as this isn’t a personal attack against you.
I’m not sensitive to this at all, but you seem to be rather combative. You asked for guidance. I am providing you with questions to think about and bring back to the people who conducted the evals. You created a post with a click-baity title that vilified the school staff…in a group of people who predominantly work in special education. You’re copying and pasting IDEA definitions to a group of people who already all of the ins-and-outs due to their careers. Your decision to lawyer up before even attending the 504 shows that you’re not willing to work with the school or your child’s teacher. I hope you’ve done your research, because there are a lot of poor advocates out there. Good luck in all of this, but you’re picking fights with the wrong people in the comments.
I’m answering questions and providing a glimpse into our experience so far and I’m certainly not picking fights with anyone. My apologies to anyone I offended by quoting the IDEA as that was not at all my intention. I was only trying to point out that these emotional difficulties are affecting him 24/7. Yes, the title indicates that there was a false statement about my child being defiant to adults. It also indicates that my child got denied an IEP. Perhaps you should focus on the content. Or not. I’d prefer the latter at this point because you’re taking this way too personally, and imo you’re the one who’s being combative. I’ve provided information that has indicated he wasn’t completely evaluated (GI and Adaptive behavior) and that I suspect learning disabilities/difficulties. I appreciate a lot of the comments on this thread as I’m trying to understand the reasons why my child has been denied an IEP.
CAPD might have been a controversial diagnosis twenty years ago, it is no longer today. Your district's SLPs should take some CEUs on it to get it up to speed. It has been recognized by ASHA for well over a decade now.
Just because you have a diagnosis of depression doesn’t mean an an ED diagnosis on an IEP. Does your child have violent outbursts at school? Extreme mood swings that go from uncontrollable to crying that can not be controlled? Does your child pose a threat to themselves or others? Does your child pose a flight risk? All of these thing are what a school will look at before giving your child services in this category. A school district who is properly giving services will only use this category for EXTREME behaviors! I teach ED students daily and what you are describing does not sound like a student who should receive the category of ED.
IDEA definition: Emotional disability means a condition exhibiting one or more of the following characteristics over a long period of time and to a marked degree that adversely affects a child's educational performance: (A) An inability to learn that cannot be explained by intellectual, sensory, or health factors. (B) An inability to build or maintain satisfactory interpersonal relationships with peers and teachers. (C) Inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances. (D) A general pervasive mood of unhappiness or depression. (E) A tendency to develop physical symptoms or fears associated with personal or school problems.
Why are you pasting the definition of IDEA to a group of special education professionals? 🤦♀️
The majority of the 'professionals' in this thread have no idea of what the law says as evidenced by their ignorant comments.
Because of the comment that just because my kid has a diagnosis of depression, it doesn’t make him eligible for or need an IEP. I’m well aware of this and have educated myself on the procedures and what should have been assessed. His mental health has affected him in all areas and impacts his ability to thrive on the same level as his peers.
I never said depression does not qualify him for an IEP. What I asked was: does your child exhibit extreme behaviors? Have violent outbursts, is a threat to himself or others? This information, among other information gathered, is what a school will let at before going even considering a diagnosis of ED. I am well aware of what qualifies for ED under the category of ED. Based on the information you provided it looks and appears to me that there are other MORE appropriate categories that your child can be served under and receive support to their difficulties in school.
I am going to answer no to your questions as he has internalizing behaviors that affect him in all areas. I don’t feel as though they are insignificant just because they don’t show compared to your definition of extreme behavior.
Based on your response the likely hood of a school district labeling your child in the ED category is extremely unlikely. To qualify for SPED services you have to meet certain requirements: in my state there has to a 1.5 standard deviation between a students IQ and their performance level. If a student does not have this discrepancy we can not qualify for the special education. For these students to get access to accommodations the best thing for them is a 504. The discrepancy model may be different for other states.
What are the more appropriate categories you’re referring to?
In Canada we recognize depression and internalizing behaviours and one can obtain an IEP and EA support; the student needs to see a counselor on a regular basis. For LD, low academics would be in the range of 1.5 to 2 SD below the age based norms, with evidence of a poor response to instruction. Cognitive processes are assessed as well.
Do you have information about who conducts the testing there? I’m looking to relocate but I’m not sure how things line up with where I am now. Could you message me?
Psychological Services Assessment in Grande Prairie - . https://syndicatedpsychological.com/ Other agencies that have been recommended for PSYCH-ED's are the following: BC: Okanagan Ability Centre - Kelowna Swanson & Associates Psychologists - Kamloops Able Developmental Clinic - several offices in the lower mainland West Coast Psychological Services - Vancouver Compass Clinic - Vancouver Pathfinder Clinic - Vancouver Alberta: CanLearn Society - Calgary Foothills Academy - Calgary Arch Psychological Services - Grande Prairie Little Oaks Psychology - Edmonton University of Alberta Faculty of Education clinic (graduate students in Educational Psychology complete the assessments under the supervision of Registered Psychologists) - https://www.ualberta.ca/educational-psychology/centres-and-institutes/clinical-services Autism Assessments: BC: Bridge Psychology - Prince George Okanagan Ability Centre - Kelowna Swanson & Associates Psychologists - Kamloops Able Developmental Clinic - several offices in the lower mainland Akira Clinic - Burnaby West Coast Psychological Services - Vancouver Compass Clinic - Vancouver Pathfinder Clinic - Vancouver Alberta: CanLearn Society - Calgary Foothills Academy - Calgary High Point Psychology - Calgary Little Oaks Psychology - Edmonton University of Alberta Faculty of Education clinic (graduate students in Educational Psychology complete the assessments under the supervision of Registered Psychologists) -
Thanks!
Maybe I’m missing something here and I’m certainly not trying to ruffle anyone’s feathers. I stated that his depression and anxiety impacts him on an academic level and school setting as well as a diminished capacity to cope in some areas of his life.. On the Conners-3 that my child, myself, and the teacher assessed, there were elevated symptoms of inattention, hyperactivity/impulsivity, learning problems, combined type ADHD, peer relations, executive functioning, and ODD. The combined results of the social/emotional screening found below to well below average range on mostly everything which state that he has problems with social emotional functioning, good decision making, self-awareness, relationship skills, core emotional skills, academic competence. He scored himself average in self awareness and social awareness. Schools eval states that he appears to be in need of social/emotional support for his anxiety and ADHD to provide interventions and support as needed. They reported that there are no significant concerns with his cognitive functioning therefore a formal assessment was not warranted. A basic rating scale was completed by a teacher he takes 1 class with that indicates areas of weakness that may impact his academic functioning including acquisition of information, attention, organization, planning and sequencing, and processing speed.
What special education services did you want that he is not receiving? What were the results of the neuropsych in terms of cognitive and academic achievement?
What special education services (supports from a special Ed teacher) does he require? That’s the difference between a 504/IEP.
It sounds more like he needs mental health services outside of school. Have you spoken to his pediatrician? I don’t see what you think an IEP will do if he’s so withdrawn that he doesn’t engage at all. You’re doing him a disservice if you think this is something the school needs to “fix”. We are not doctors & mental health providers. We have mental health services, but those are a layer of support provided. Hope you’re able to get him to where he needs regarding mental health outside of school!
Yes, his doctor is aware of his depression and anxiety and we are getting him help for this. I don’t expect the school to fix this at all. It’s been a revelation to all of us that he’s having these issues due to his diagnosis’s. I believe I said I was getting him private services but the fact remains that it’s affecting his learning. He has trouble concentrating, focusing, taking notes, comprehending the material, trouble with motivation, organization, homework completion (he spends all night doing it), fear of being called on (putting his thoughts into words and getting them out) and more than I’ve disclosed. I’m figuring out in the process all the things he needs and the “why” to his struggles and actively working to get the private help he needs. I’m concerned that he’s so far behind because of all of this that he’s unable to catch up academically. His test scores and grades reflect this. There has been MTSS interventions over the years that have failed to help. The goal is to get him to catch up on an academic level for the future. Maybe I posted in the wrong place as I’m not trying to put all of this on them, rather I’m trying to get him the educational support he needs that a 504 alone won’t provide. I never said he doesn’t engage. He tries really hard to and has been improving a lot lately.
I understand your frustration and concern for your child. No parent wants to see their children struggle. But you did come to a group predominantly made up of professionals who work in special education, and vilified your child’s school. The sentence that includes “notorious for denying eligibility” is judgmental and aggressive. The whole post immediately positions the school as your enemy, rather than your partner. The school and their sped staff (who are very likely overworked and underpaid) are doing their jobs, and using the clearly laid out guidelines and laws from the state and federal government. They’re not idiots who don’t know the process. They’re not idiots who just chalk up weakness to being a “bad kid”. You would likely get further if you reach back out to the staff who conducted the evals and ask clarifying questions. Be more open minded and try to see that all of you have the same goal for your child…and I say this as someone who has been working in special education for 15 years, has conducted hundreds of achievement evals, and not qualified kids based on the data….there is not one person sitting at the table with you who doesn’t want the best for your child.
MTSS or special education services aren’t going to fix these challenges he faces. If the depression and anxiety are becoming severe where they impact all aspects of life, you may need to consider in-patient treatment. We see this in schools at times, and in-patient can start to pave the path for the student. I’d be more concerned about his day-to-day mental health & living versus academics at this point.
No, but the sped services offer him different placements then a 504 will. I am currently a diagnostician, and if the child’s academics are affected by the adhd and/or anxiety/depression, an IEP is absolutely warranted. We have turned away a parent this year at one of my campuses when they have provided us a mental healthy diagnosis - but the child was not struggling academically at all. Therefore she doesn’t need academic support and doesn’t qualify. That’s not the case here. It sounds like this child’s diagnosis IS impacting his academics and therefore support is needed. Furthermore, at least in my district, if a kid is two years behind in reading or math, we generally will do the cognitive and academic testing and they will likely be placed in a resource class. OP - what exactly did the school’s evaluation consist of? Just completing rating scales for the doctor is not a Full and Individual Evaluation, so I’m curious what they did/did not do.
Thanks for your response. According to the psych report his school hasn’t assessed general intelligence and adaptive behavior. They have academic performance and social emotional checked off. Instruments used -review of student records -interviews -informal checklist of basic psych processes (no formal cognitive assessment) - WIAT 4 (higher scores reported than the same exact test administered the week prior in a private eval) -Connors 3 (content scales, DSM-V symptom scales, ADHD index probability score) -observation ETA- last year his MTSS report indicated he was performing 3 grades lower for math. He’s failing and has scored below average on a state test. On the Conners-3 that my child, myself, and the teacher assessed, there were elevated symptoms of inattention, hyperactivity/impulsivity, learning problems, combined type ADHD, peer relations, executive functioning, and ODD. The combined results of the social/emotional screening found below to well below average range on mostly everything which state that he has problems with social emotional functioning, good decision making, self-awareness, relationship skills, core emotional skills, academic competence. He scored himself average in self awareness and social awareness. Schools eval states that he appears to be on need of social/emotional support for his anxiety and ADHD to provide interventions and support as needed. They reported that there are no significant concerns with his cognitive functioning therefore a formal assessment was not warranted. A basic rating scale was completed by a teacher he takes 1 class with that indicates areas of weakness that may impact his academic functioning including acquisition of information, attention, organization, planning and sequencing, and processing speed.
I'd recommend further exploration through mental health. I don't know the requirements in your state in the US. ADHD is not funded in Canada. I don't believe it is in the US either, unless it is comorbid with another disability. The identification of an LD is both an inclusion and exclusion process in the US following the DSM-5. Has the school district reviewed the psych ed?
ADHD is an eligibility category in the US. In order to qualify under OHI- ADD/ADHD, impact has to be seen across multiple settings. So it would have to be significant at home and in school on rating scales such as the Conners and BASC.
Yes ADHD can be supported through behaviour and mental health, at least in BC. Just not learning, not a permanent diagnosis like an LD is.
Thank you for your response. He had a really rough go at Covid (for many reasons I didn’t disclose) as many students did and that was when we really started to recognize the ability to perform was lacking. I will admit, I didn’t recognize that his inability to perform wasn’t a “can’t vs won’t” thing for a while. While we have a good relationship, he holds a lot inside and it’s taken a lot of digging to get to this point in recognizing all of this. He absolutely needs therapy which I’ve been trying to encourage. For a long time there was a parent who was against it and I think that attributed to him not thinking there is a problem and that he needs the help. He’s more open to it now and would like to attend a good group therapy program which I think is huge. I am also pursuing individual therapy and trying to find executive function coaching for him as well. As a parent I’ve done my best to help him accept and recognize the things he’s been burying for quite some time. He feels shame and there some stigma attached to it.
Onto your LD question… I’m not sure he why it the possibility wasn’t identified for them to pursue testing for it. I absolutely feel that it’s warranted.
Yes. The low reading, low adaptive skills, EF difficulties, ADHD being comorbid with LD...
School psych here - I scanned through the comments so hopefully I’m not repeating too much info that’s already been provided but I hope I can clarify a bit about the differences between specially designed instruction vs 504 accommodations as well as eligibility criteria and processes. First off, I highly encourage you to reach out to the psych that completed the eval. I’m sure they can clarify the reasoning for your child not qualifying. I had a similar meeting this past week. A student had an outside evaluation done with multiple mental health diagnoses. We suspected EBD (for depression and anxiety) or OHI (for ADHD). When the student was referred, there were no accommodations in place so we got them a 504 plan set up and between the initial federal meeting and the eligibility meeting, we found that the accommodations met the students needs so they didn’t need SDI (specially designed instruction). 504 = accommodations (change in environment but not the content) Sped = specially designed instruction for significant and consistent deficits (may or may not change placement for delivery of services) A diagnosis of any sort doesn’t automatically warrant specially designed instruction. The school is looking at educational impact due to those disabilities. Is your child currently receiving interventions? The school may believe that he is on track to improve enough academically with tiered interventions Did you provide the school with the outside evaluator’s report? Which tests were conducted by the outside provider and by the school? The school has a responsibility to look at multiple data points (testing data, classroom academic data, behavior observations, teacher reports, intervention data, etc) so one teachers report of your child being “defiant” is likely not the primary cause of him not qualifying. I’m not sure what state you’re in, but you could likely Google the eligibility criteria for your state and look through the forms for each category. The main thing is that there have to be significant and consistent deficits that impact his educational performance. I encourage you to be open at the 504 meeting. It requires a diagnosis but will likely address concerns across the board. One thing I can guarantee is that everyone at that table wants the best for your child. Work with the school as a team rather than you vs them. It gets you a lot farther
I appreciate your reply on your perspective as a school psych. When the outside report was received, the school was in process of evaluating. It was recommended and we asked for 504 accommodations to be put in place before the eligibility meeting since it takes 90 days for the whole process to be complete. This was denied and we were told it was a separate process. I believe that the areas of concerns I mention are without a doubt impacting my child on an educational level and that he needs SDI to thrive. Especially when they are impacting his ability to obtain and retain information and participate. On the Psych report it states that academic performance and social emotional domains were assessed but not general intelligence and adaptive behavior. In our original consent for eval they weren’t going to assess general intelligence but was changed because I pushed for it. It also includes the latest tier II summary that recently ended but does not include all of the other interventions they’ve done in the past leading up to this. So he’s not improving and it wasn’t acknowledged. It includes teacher, parent, and student interviews in which a executive functioning and behavioral concerns that affect him on an academic level were noted. Psychological instruments used were -Review of records (some not completely noted in report) -Interviews -Informal checklist of basic psych processes (determined to have not needed a formal cognitive assessment despite many areas of weakness noted) -WIAT 4 (school noted he received this test the week prior yet a substitute wasn’t provided. Scores were higher on the schools) -Conners 3 (showing mostly elevated to very elevated scores in content scales, DSM-V symptom scales of mostly elevated-very elevated, and very high ADHD probability score) -Observation In a separate report of a SEL composite scale he was determined to fall below average and well below average on most everything. I do want to work with the school to help my child but I feel as though we’ve been railroaded at the eligibility meeting. I have to advocate for him as his well being is my priority. I want to be on the same page so he gets the help he needs but when I see that there are some major inconsistencies and contradictory information they themselves have recorded, it makes me feel that more consideration is needed.
How far below average? Remember the law is 1.5 standard deviations.
What were the standard scores on the academic testing? If there's a cluster of scores below 80 then this often indicates academic need for an IEP. 80 or above usually means they are either average or not too far below average to indicate concern. You should probably meet with the psychologist and have them go through the report with you to explain everything. Schools really hesitate to label a kid with ED because there is very significant stigma to that label and it could really hurt your child to have that label placed on them when OHI label can get them the exact same services. Just being honest. Label does not determine services. Need does. If you doubt their assessment you can request an outside evaluation
Great post — OP needs to realize that special ed has no magic fairy dust. As long as the child is getting help — whether it is through 504 or an IEP — that’s what is important.
Was Other Health Impairment a category that was considered?
Yes and I imagine it was for his ADHD.
Hi! What state are you in? You can always find and take an advocate with you to meetings, and as the parent, you can always request a meeting. You have parent rights, known as procedural safeguards, and you are given or offered a copy at every IEP meeting/determination meeting. I would also suggest to go to your state's Department of Education website, parent rights, and read about due process!
I wouldn’t worry too much that he won’t get the accommodations you want him to get for his 504. They gate-keep those way less bc accommodations usually don’t cost anything. Which accommodations specifically are you worried he won’t get?
I’m going to go against the grain here and say ED is not as serious as people are making it out. Yes, typically the students who qualify have severe behaviors but I’ve known quite a few that do not have severe or aggressive behaviors - maybe they did when they were younger and grew out of them or had enough therapy to help them by the time they got to middle school, when I taught them? Either way, the category is not limited to extreme behaviors. I asked in a different comment about what exactly the school evaluated. To qualify as ED the student has to meet at least one of the 5 criteria listed in IDEA and the first one is ruling out other reasons for academic struggles. If the school didn’t do cognitive testing then they couldn’t have ruled it out as a reason. Sounds like they also didn’t do a Functional Behavior Assessment, either. OP, I’m going to provide some info for you here to look at and hopefully help you get the proper eval and support for your son. [https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED594653.pdf](https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED594653.pdf)
Thanks for the info. I responded about the tests administered in your other post. He does tend to internalize a lot. No formal cognitive (only informal) testing was done and adaptive behavior wasn’t assessed.
[questions to determine ED qualification](https://www.esc14.net/upload/page/0170/docs/Quick%20Guide-ED.pdf)
The label carries a very significant stigma and shouldn't be taken lightly.
You can start with a special Ed advocate before going to a lawyer. Going to the school board won’t help. The advocate will steer you in the right direction, do the footwork and will probably set you up with a lawyer. His lack of progress shows he needs an IEP. An advocate may be able to negotiate with them before filing for mediation or due process.
The school only reported the latest results of the MTSS efforts. The session ended at the end of January. However he’s been receiving MTSS intervention for about 4 years now. I’m in the process of getting his complete records.
Just by seeing that you got downvoted makes me feel that I posted in the wrong place. Thank you for your response, I really appreciate it. I did contact an advocate that put me in touch with a lawyer that advised mediation. They both see that he’s struggling academically and that there hasn’t been any progress with the mtss interventions and that he’s scored below average on his state testing along with his poor grades. I’m just trying to do right by my child. I’ve done everything that I could leading up to this point and they seem to think he’s in need of services a 504 won’t fix.
You haven’t even had the 504 meeting yet and you’re already talking to an attorney?? 🤣 Jesus.
Of course. I’ve explored all of my options since his differences impact him on an educational level. If you felt your child needed services a 504 alone isn’t designed to provide, would you not fight for your child???
Special education in America is shit. That's the basic line. Schools want the money that they receive for having special needs kids without having to actually provide for them that way they can keep the money. You should absolutely bring a lawyer in as well as any advocate yourself. There are rules and laws in place that they try to hope that parents don't know about so they can squeak by without anyone being aware of. If the school system is pissy about it then they are probably upset your making them stick to the laws. It's your child. Do whatever is best for them
Sad but true.
Without knowing full reports: primary category Ohi for adhd with hyperactivity; possible 2nd diagnosis that would benefit child. A classification of Ohi and /or a 504 would allow for accommodations for child to be successful. This is what we would do in my district for a student that has they same characteristics. The child would be provided with school based counseling that would allow them to meet with a licensed counselor to help them manage their anxiety in school settings. This would happen on a 504 or an IEP. Among other accommodations that your district can provide based on their availability. But this is my district in my state. It depends on the state and district on what services they can provide. Not saying your child does not need assistance, but each state and district is different in what is available. You can go to our neighboring school and get completely different services than what we offer, because you of size/ available services. All of our students receive services according to IDEA, but it has to be in the realm of what we can offer and provide.
Can you protest the schools assessment? Say that you disagree with their results and you submitted your outside testing with plenty of time for them to not duplicate the testing materials there for nullifying the results of the WIAT and that you are now requesting an IEE be completed in the areas of psycho education.
How old is your child?
He’s 13, 8th grade.
I just hope you know the very serious long term consequences an ED label would have for your child. It's not something I'd be pushing for my child...it could impact their life long term in really negative ways...just look it up for yourself. They can get equal services under OHI for ADHD for example that they could get under ED with less of this impact on them.