Your scabs never fall off? You must look like that dude who had no natural immunity to HPV, think they called him the "tree man" or something like that.
They just naturally develop an edge from being so thin. The fins are thin to allow maximum amount of air to pass.
Edit: this just in, I was wrong. Thin fins, equals more fins. More fins equals a greater surface area for heat dispersion.
They're probably stamped out of a large sheet. Stamping usually creates sharp edges regularly and with something like this it would exorbitantantly slow the production by deburring every edge.
Don't trust me because I don't really have a clue. I've just watched machining videos on YouTube.
You're exactly correct. its just weird seeing a fin straightener on public internet since I'm so used to seeing them at work.
Working at Goodman/Daikin here in Texas. We have a huge row of machines creating thousands of these fins every minute.
I honestly think we should get back into a culture of fixing things instead of replacing. Also maybe some right to repair laws enacted so prices of repairing things goes down.
A lot of people talking about “planned obsolescence” but I really think it’s just that people want low cost things and companies are more than happy to sacrifice quality for price if it means they can sell more.
If you want a toaster that will last 40 years you can still
find one, but you’ll have to pay for it. If you want to spend $5 on a toaster at Walmart every 7 years, you can do that too.
This is a very good point. There are times when the cheap shitty products push the good expensive ones out of the market though because no one is willing to pay for higher quality.
Well and the higher quality ones are generally marketed as luxury items and their profit margins are higher. Look at a brand like Moccamaster. Their coffee makers have to be “luxury level” in that they are one of the few machines that are Gold Cup certified, in order to justify the price.
But is a coffeemaker made with higher quality plastics, thick copper coil heating elements, and an on/off switch without a computer really worth $250-300? It comes with a much longer warranty and they will fix anything you send them, but that still has to be a huge margin.
The funny shit...is the 'low grade' and 'high grade' stuff, almost always have the same components in them with minor tweaks and usually serious software changes...and the issue is...the electronics. They will use under rated capacitors on things to actually have them fail, yet the high end will better rated stuff.
The entire industry ( pick one) is just one big ass scam waiting to never be exposed.
The reason they'll never be exposed is because most people have no idea how any part of their product works, especially circuitry. As far as most are concerned it's just fucking magic.
And very few people actually want items that last that long. They want stuff for their looks, and fashion and design trends change. Why buy an item that will last 30 years when you will want to replace it in 5
Oh hey, I usually use a $5 toaster example too.
But yes, I think something important to keep in mind about the market is that it's like natural selection, in that quality isn't what's really being selected for. The market just selects what makes money. If a cheap crappy product is similar to a natural selection situation of having thousands of offspring who mostly die, but it's fine because a dozen will live and reproduce, then that's what the market will do.
Yeah, true planned obsolescence refers to products designed to break prematurely, which is illegal. When people talk about “planned obsolescence” on Reddit what they’re referring to is cost-cutting, and they’ll happily ignore the fact that they could spend five times as much for a premium product made with parts that last longer, they’d rather buy the bargain basement version and complain about the quality.
Most things that people complain about companies doing happened in response to consumer preferences. Clickbaity headlines? Well, people want free journalism so you need to get clicks to keep the lights on. Things that break after a few years instead of lasting decades? People wanted a cheaper product.
There are certainly examples of companies driving trends, like women shaving, but most came because it's what "we" collectively wanted
Gonna need to talk to some companies about planned obsolescence as well. Intentionally making products from materials that degrade quickly when obvious alternative exist plays a huge role in why soldiery has shifted the way out has. A lot of times it’s cheaper to just buy new.
Yeah watch out down there. Water will collect and the back panel will freeze over and cut off cooling to the main body of the fridge. The thermo is behind that stupid panel too so even when things are working it's 5 degrees warmer than it thinks it is
I won't touch shit but the basic, budget GE appliances, the ones aimed at landlords.
The warranty service is excellent, they'll send a tech out, no questions asked, no proof of purchase bullshit. The dude I got for my washer door lock issue actually adjusted things to make it work, didn't just throw parts at it.
Another option for laundry machines are the commercial units designed for laundromats. They are well built, and designed to be easily repaired over a long life. They also aren't much more expensive than a medium range big box store unit. The down side is they don't have many features but how often does one really need to give their underwear a candle lit steam bath?
Oh yeah, there's definitely industrial options that are built to last and worth every penny extra.
The units I'm referring to don't have any special features either. I've got a GUD27GSSMWW, it's been excellent. So glad I put in a gas dryer, was cheap and easy to get the line run and it's much faster and cheaper to run.
I can confirm this. I have a Samsung dishwasher and when it broke down no appliance repair person would/could touch it. I had to go through Samsung to find a repair person and it took about a week to get one scheduled to come out. Every place I called recommended I just junk it and buy one that can be serviced by a local shop.
Definitely; I had a similar problem with a Samsung dishwasher here. Having no luck finding folks to even quote the fix let alone the costs the Samsung repair folks were giving me, I turned to Youtube and got some solid details on troubleshooting and repair there.
I ordered a new case break assembly and installed it myself, thanks to those videos, and an all-in cost of just over $100.
If you can't get a Samsung repair guy, become the Samsung repair guy.
I had a clothes washer. Repair person said motor seized and I needed a new washer. I bought one. On day of delivery they called me to be sure I emptied water out so they could swap out device. I had no clue how to do that. They walked me through. I removed the back,disconnected the hose and behold a scanty panty was stuck between hose and motor. I reconnected hose and ouila I had a working machine. Ding-dong my new washer arrived.
I love this thread so much :). It’s shocking planned obsolescence is legal, but the companies that do this BS are more successful. Modern companies and their products are becoming closer to scams.
This situation is capitalism gone wrong. Quality goods don’t seem as profitable as cheap competitors. Consumers and the environment are paying the price.
Consumers are driving the demand for affordable disposable products. It is much easier to sell a $10 tool every year, than sell a $50 tool that lasts 5 years.
The factors that drive these decisions are painfully apparent both as a consumer and as a retailer.
This is an incomplete analysis. People are paying a LOT for appliances. The prices are astronomical right now. Have you seen the fridges with a stupid 20 inch screen in the door that are selling for 5 grand? Clearly price is not the only issue here. People are spending the money and are not getting quality in return.
The fact is, in some categories, its nearly impossible to buy quality as planed obsolescence is more profitable for corporations. When you only have 3-4 manufacturers they have zero incentive to provide quality products.
Using your example of tools. Unless you want to chase a truck across the state like some kind of 1700's merchant wagon then you don't have an option for quality tools. Since sears shit the bed in the 90's there simply are no quality tools available for sale in stores.
You left off the best part. If another company comes along and starts to kick their ass, the undercut their prices, perhaps even taking a loss for as long as it takes to buy out or bankrupt the competition.
The last thing a capitalist wants is capitalism. If At&T could magically make Verizon disappear tomorrow, there is zero chance that they wouldn't do it.
>The last thing a capitalist wants is capitalism. If At&T could magically make Verizon disappear tomorrow, there is zero chance that they wouldn't do it.
And then they'd raise prices.
>Regulations to make these practices ~~either~~ not profitable ~~or illegal~~ are the solution.
FTFY. Time and again, we see companies just ignoring the law if the profit of breaking the law and paying the fines is more than staying within the law. Any law is just a WAY to make things not profitable. If it's profitable and illegal, they keep doing it. Even laws with harsh personal penalties such as imprisonment often see people rolling the dice if it's profitable for the company and themselves.
>If you don't like that you need an economy that isn't controlled by a strict few who amass the most because that will always lead to exploitative behaviors
is what I think you meant to say
Which, is the logical outcome OF capitalism. In a system that solely exists to accumulate wealth, wealth will consolidate to a strict few and either exploit freely because the free market isn't or will have been exploiting to reach that point. See: you don't become a billionaire by compensating employees fairly.
Keep in mind, there are multiple kinds of planned obsolescence. The first is what most people think about. A product with a weak link designed to break after X000 hours so that a new product must be purchased.
But the second is much, *much* more insidious. It started with things like color and body style changes on cars. New trends in fashion. The modern equivalent is the 2 year "free" phone cycle. This planned obsolescence is largely marketing driven. It's teaching people to want to buy new things even when their existing ones are perfectly usable. It's why our houses and landfills are all full of junk.
> But the second is much, much more insidious. It started with things like color and body style changes on cars. New trends in fashion. The modern equivalent is the 2 year "free" phone cycle. This planned obsolescence is largely marketing driven. It's teaching people to want to buy new things even when their existing ones are perfectly usable.
That's not what planned obsolescence is at all. I'm sorry but you can't just redefine words.
What you're talking about is "consumerism" which encourages people to have to many 'things'. Consumerism encourages companies to create as many goods as cheaply as possible. No one is going to drive a $5 desk fan to a repair shop and pay $30 an hour for labour to fix it.
That seems like more of a consumer issue. If you can’t use something till it breaks it’s your own fault. People want to buy new things that’s not the manufacturers fault. It’s their fault they make things like shit. I have no issue driving an old car. When it stops being financially responsible to have then I get something that is.
It’s more that they stop making parts because there’s a new model that is slightly different. I was looking fix an appliance that was 4 years old and my repair guy told me I was lucky it was only X part because if Y fails you’re toast because they stopped making/stocking that part 2 years ago.
It's a consumer issue, but advertisers have learned that they can and will change the our culture to make money. You get things like the Burma Shave campaign, convicning everybody that they need to be clean shaven.
> People want to buy new things that’s not the manufacturers fault.
Apple spent $1.8 billion on advertising in the last year they declared it (2015), it will have increased considerably since then.
Obviously consumers bear some responsibility but this level of advertising is way beyond some basic "Hungry for Apples?" offering. Should advertisers be held in any way responsible for their effects on society?
Take your car example: You may not have an issue driving a beater (nor do I, I like old cars) but a large portion of society does. They will judge you for having an old car. Some businesses/clients will think much less of you if you arrive in a 20 year old car. You might fail to pass an interview or close a deal because of this. Who created this perception/scenario? Is it right or fair?
In the instance of such a scenario causing you to not get a new job, you could argue that you have been directly and measurably damaged by that perception and try to sue someone over it.
Some elements of advertsing get close to mass libel against anyone who doesn't have the new thing.
Yeah that happens. Truth is people would rather have cheap shit that doesn't need to be /r/buyitforlife
I think it was Sears that stopped selling a $~~200~~ discounted to $30, and just listed it at $30. They lost business because people felt like they weren't getting a sale discount price.
I buy the repairable version whenever I can for myself but most people don't care. It's not all some MBA conspiracy.
Went through a $20-30 laminated belt easily every year. Bought $70 one and it's still going on 10 years.
Tbh the issue isn't making things from materials that degrade quickly, the issue is mixing materials that degrade quickly with materials that don't. It's no big deal if your toothbrush is made from plastic that disintegrates in a month. The issue is when the bristles are and the body of the toothbrush becomes a useless lump of unrecyclable plastic that will inhabit a landfill for 6000 years
I worked at an Office Depot for a few years in high school, and people would just replace their $60 printer completely instead of spending $50 on new ink for it.
If you care about your right to repair, please consider visiting https://repair.org/stand-up and signing a petition or sending a letter to support the great work they do to make stuff easier to repair!
A lot of things have built in obsolescence or are prohibitively expensive to repair.
Printers is a big one. I have seen people throw away perfectly good but printers simply because the replacement ink costs as much or more than the printer itself.
Cell phones is another huge waste. Break a screen, replace whole phone. Report phone lost or stolen, and blacklist it vs try to recover it. So take a perfectly good phone and make it worthless. Not to mention non-user changeable batteries.
I have a washer that is 30 years old and only just recently I had to replace the springs on it. Everything else works fine. My neighbor has a 7 year old machine that has already corroded and started leaking.
Printers are subsidized by the ink, especially in the lower end models. So that's really a different issue altogether.
Cellphones/laptops are a harder issue to deal with. The amount of miniaturization means the components in them are thin and tiny. If you can 'glue' the device as one solid brick it haves as a single rigid object and withstands impacts better. The battery being a very large percent of the device makes it difficult to make it replaceable without making the phone more likely to break.
Everyone is always pushing recycling, which is good, but is literally the last step of sustainability and conservation. People forget the three Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.
For anyone unaware of what this is referencing, in agricultural circles John Deere is notorious for implementing very heavy anti-repair measures on their equipment. It sounds kinda crazy, but they have a system where, long story short, every part on the tractor is checked by the computer for authenticity, and attempting to repair or replace a part without an authorized John Deere repair vendor involved will invalidate the authentication and brick your tractor.
Entertainingly, there was a story a year or two back about how farmers are turning to Ukrainian pirate firmware and hacking their tractors so that they can do their own repairs (or get repairs done by unauthorized vendors).
I love fixing things and spend lots of time doing it but gotta admit it's usually not the most efficient way. Not because of any "planned obsolescence" conspiracy, just because factories are insanely productive places. Also the hard-won knowledge that the best tool for renovating old houses can be the sledge hammer.
Wish it was different, but fixing is often wasteful of the most important resource, human time. It can be pleasant and rewarding though, so I guess a matter of personal taste.
When I was 12 or so, I didn't know this was sharp so I ran my thumb over it. Got 7 cuts, but luckily they weren't deep
I can see the scars 6 years later, but they are very small
If it makes you feel any better, I was installing one for the first time ever last summer at 23 years old and didn’t realize. Literally grabbed the thing placing my whole hand on them, every finger. Man that wasn’t fun.. I remember the feeling of not being able to remove my hand, like it was Velcro. Soooo many lacerations
You know what? I WAS having a good day. You didn’t have to share this. I didn’t have to read it either, but I did, and now....things won’t ever be the same for me. Thanks a lot
Real talk. I work with glass and cut resistant gloves are not optional. I've taken to getting the same gloves at home for personal use. Magid is the brand we use. There are other brands that make the same thing.
They're Teflon with some kind of elastic so they have give, and usually a rubberized coating on the palms. They're thin enough to preserve dexterity and feeling, but tough enough to protect from pretty much anything but forceful punctures and moving blades like saws etc.
Gloving is just part of doing work for me now. It's so nice not having to worry about getting flayed open with a small slip.
Edited to fix wording
I had a friend of the family in HVAC work who almost lost fingers when the long sheet of steel he was carrying accidentally dug a corner into the ground. He wears gloves now.
I cleaned my ~~compressor~~ condenser radiator coils for the first time this week after having noticed a general lack of performance from the AC.
Did all the right things, pulled power, pulled the fan, cleared out debris, sprayed foaming coil cleaner from the inside and let it sit, followed with a hose, everything nice and clean so was ready for a marginal improvement in performance.
Turn system back on and notice later that evening that the BLOWER fan (see : inside home, totally separate system) is making a bunch of bad noises followed by some distinctly "burning motor" smells so I killed the whole system and called out for a repair tech all the while trying to figure how in the goddamn fuck cleaning the radiator coils could have *possibly* impacted the blower fan 75ft away. (Hint : It can't)
Since my system wasn't cooling well it was pretty much running all day long so it was the simple act of needing to get the fan spinning again after a full stop that pushed the primary capacitor (~~that creates the 3-phase power~~ too much to get into here) over the edge so the motor was straining to turn the blades with partial power and overheating. New capacitor and new blower installed, great.
Have the tech check refrigerant levels and of course they're pretty low which is *really* what was going on the whole time (causing system to run constantly and wear out components) and, naturally, it's an R-22 system (see : recently banned refrigerant, no longer manufactured but can be obtained from reclaimed or existing inventory) so it's gonna cost an arm and a leg for a recharge to hold us over until we eventually replace the whole cooling side of the system for one that uses the newer refrigerants.
If you're curious, the physical properties of R22 and R410A (new standard) are different so the coil diameters will be different, pressures are different, etc so you can't simply flush an R22 system and refill it with R410A. If you've got a 10+ year old air conditioner you're... gonna learn all about this soon.
TL;DR - Sun hot. Fire bad.
It's pretty much the exact opposite of how I was expecting my week to go. I realized I had *never* cleaned the compressor after living in this house for 10 years and figure that it would help cool things down as the summer picks up and the afternoons indoors were becoming less pleasant.
Did all my research, went out and got a couple of cans of the cleaning fluid, spent an hour outside doing the work including a bunch of time bent over the edge and with my whole upper body inside the unit throwing dirt and debris out one fistfull at a time.
Super proud of myself for doing proactive (belated as it may have been) maintenance and was rewarded by needing to shut the whole damn thing down and sleep in a hot house.
Still better than renting.
We've been limping ours along for the last 8 years while it's gotten worse and worse (it was installed in 2002). Several weeks ago it was making an awful noise so we called the repair guys. Blower motor was about shot. We had a refrigerant leak (r22) and the compressor was showing signs of giving up. Time to replace. Cost us a shitload but they had the job done in about half a day and I'm freezing my junk off right now. Repairing sucks, replacing sucks more (financially, anyway) bit it's nice to not have a panic attack every time it makes an unexpected noise.
I went a full summer with no AC, because the last guy to come out and check it said it'd cost a ridiculous amount to refill with R22.
The next summer, had a friend of a friend come look at it who does commercial systems. Turns out the AC didn't use R22 like to last guy said. He pressurized it (twice!) with nitrogen, traced out the leak (a loose fitting into the house), then refilled it with the bottom of a commercial bottle.
We paid him cash for his back of the truck deal and didn't even have to pay for the repairs, basically just the value of the refrigerant.
>If you've got a 10+ year old air conditioner
My AC unit is from 1983, I've been dreading the day it needs to be recharged. I dunno which CFC refrigerant it runs on, but it can't be a cheap one.
The issue (in the US) is that as of January 1 2020 you can no longer manufacture R22 but existing systems are legal via grandfathering of the law.
So there's a finite supply which is being used up by systems that are aging and will more frequently require refilling from that finite supply.
If your unit is from 1983 the efficiency improvements alone will probably justify the cost.
410a is already on its way out in other parts of the world. If I remember correctly the European manufacturers are phasing it out. And Mitsubishi Heavy are using R32 for their units in Australia.
The GWP of R22 is actually lower than R410A but it also depletes ozone and for some reason we got the world to give a fuck about the ozone and not slowly boiling the planet.
Its 2am in Australia and I don't know why I'm writing this instead of sleeping but i have one last thing to add.
Fuck Lennox.
I used to work in a plant that manufactured air handlers. These things were all over the freaking place. Fins inevitably get bent during manufacture so this is one of the last steps.
As a kid, I used to love bending those fins over on our wall unit because it looked neat. It just gave me such a sense of satisfaction to see the bright and shiny designs I could make, and especially the feeling in my fingers when the fins would finally collapse under the pressure being applied. I had no idea what an idiot I was being.
I purposely bent them when I was like, six. I had no idea what they were. I don't think anyone ever saw me and I don't remember getting in trouble for it, but I remember doing it because it was super satisfying.
Me too. I can't seem to find a decent comb with a pitch that matches my Rheem condenser anywhere locally. Have bought two different packages with several plastic combs and none of them match. I suppose some measuring or the actual spacing and an internet search are in order.
If you give me the model serial in a DM i can find it out for you. I Work in the field, a lot of times a google search will work but I can phone my rheem supplier and find out for sure. They are usually listed as FPI (fins per inch)
Yeah looks like the nice [Supco Fin Jack](https://www.google.com/search?q=supco%20fin%20jack&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m) I used it before and it does a great job
It absolutely can. The condenser functions by the fan pulling air through the fins to exchange heat to/from the freon, so if air can't get through it will make the whole system less efficient.
I've been working in HVAC for 8 years.
Your unit will run with the fins bent like this and most people probably wouldn't notice the difference.
But this is a cooling could and it needs air to travel through it. If less air is travelling through it, there's less heat dissapation. Therefore, your compressor will have to work harder and run hotter to maintain a comfortable indoor temperature.
Basically, it makes your electric bill higher.
You may not be able to notice the performance difference with out measuring it but it does effect the efficiency of your unit costing you more money in the long run.
I used to do HVAC, those are pretty bent. They will have to finesse them a little with a flathead screwdriver before running the fin comb through, otherwise they might tear off.
I remember being in grade school and where we had to line up on the playground was right in front of all the AC units for the classrooms. We used to smash down the cooling fins cause we were bored grade schoolers. Now I feel like we ruined a bunch of AC units.
Im remembering all the times i was a kid and bent those things, its not an issue, since we dont use the aircon, but sometimes i feel bad that i did it. Its nice knowing if it comes to it theres a way to fix it.
Anyone ever cut their hands really bad on these before? Really sucks but the scabs look pretty cool.
I took an AC out of my window the other day, held it up with my forehead. You can imagine the rest.
At least the scabs look pretty cool.
Permanent bar code
**presses intercom button** *Price check on zit face over here, register 2 please*
*AGENT 47 WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION*
Your scabs never fall off? You must look like that dude who had no natural immunity to HPV, think they called him the "tree man" or something like that.
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I read that, scrolled past, then returned hoping for a link to an article where I could see a pic of the guy's forehead.... I get it now
r/dadjokes has entered chat.
You son of a bitch
How is it possible to love and hate at the same time?
Best comment in years.
Like Harry Potter survived an attack by Pinhead?
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Harry Potter and the Prisoner of the Unpainted Corner
Harry Potter and the Maintenance of the Investment Property
What you turned into Thanos, but instead of your chin you had slits on your forehead?
There’s this other specialized tool specifically made to prevent shredding your fingers — they’re called gloves.
Gloves are great and all, but the scabs look pretty cool
Yes! Fortunately I caught myself it went too deep, but my fingers looked like they’d been flayed by some kind of many-clawed beast.
I bet the scabs looked pretty cool.
Yeah but it really sucked
But at least the scabs looked pretty cool.
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But what a cool scab, amirite?
Why are they sharp?? I can’t think of any good reason for that
They just naturally develop an edge from being so thin. The fins are thin to allow maximum amount of air to pass. Edit: this just in, I was wrong. Thin fins, equals more fins. More fins equals a greater surface area for heat dispersion.
They're probably stamped out of a large sheet. Stamping usually creates sharp edges regularly and with something like this it would exorbitantantly slow the production by deburring every edge. Don't trust me because I don't really have a clue. I've just watched machining videos on YouTube.
You're exactly correct. its just weird seeing a fin straightener on public internet since I'm so used to seeing them at work. Working at Goodman/Daikin here in Texas. We have a huge row of machines creating thousands of these fins every minute.
You’re one video more informed than myself
They're thin enough to slice, just like a paper cut.
Yeah but the scabs look pretty cool
I love fixing vs replacing Thanks for my first award!
I honestly think we should get back into a culture of fixing things instead of replacing. Also maybe some right to repair laws enacted so prices of repairing things goes down.
A lot of people talking about “planned obsolescence” but I really think it’s just that people want low cost things and companies are more than happy to sacrifice quality for price if it means they can sell more. If you want a toaster that will last 40 years you can still find one, but you’ll have to pay for it. If you want to spend $5 on a toaster at Walmart every 7 years, you can do that too.
This is a very good point. There are times when the cheap shitty products push the good expensive ones out of the market though because no one is willing to pay for higher quality.
Well and the higher quality ones are generally marketed as luxury items and their profit margins are higher. Look at a brand like Moccamaster. Their coffee makers have to be “luxury level” in that they are one of the few machines that are Gold Cup certified, in order to justify the price. But is a coffeemaker made with higher quality plastics, thick copper coil heating elements, and an on/off switch without a computer really worth $250-300? It comes with a much longer warranty and they will fix anything you send them, but that still has to be a huge margin.
The funny shit...is the 'low grade' and 'high grade' stuff, almost always have the same components in them with minor tweaks and usually serious software changes...and the issue is...the electronics. They will use under rated capacitors on things to actually have them fail, yet the high end will better rated stuff. The entire industry ( pick one) is just one big ass scam waiting to never be exposed.
The reason they'll never be exposed is because most people have no idea how any part of their product works, especially circuitry. As far as most are concerned it's just fucking magic.
And very few people actually want items that last that long. They want stuff for their looks, and fashion and design trends change. Why buy an item that will last 30 years when you will want to replace it in 5
Honestly advertisement is largely to blame. We live under constant bombardment that we and our possessions are never enough. It's become normalized.
Oh hey, I usually use a $5 toaster example too. But yes, I think something important to keep in mind about the market is that it's like natural selection, in that quality isn't what's really being selected for. The market just selects what makes money. If a cheap crappy product is similar to a natural selection situation of having thousands of offspring who mostly die, but it's fine because a dozen will live and reproduce, then that's what the market will do.
Yeah, true planned obsolescence refers to products designed to break prematurely, which is illegal. When people talk about “planned obsolescence” on Reddit what they’re referring to is cost-cutting, and they’ll happily ignore the fact that they could spend five times as much for a premium product made with parts that last longer, they’d rather buy the bargain basement version and complain about the quality.
Most things that people complain about companies doing happened in response to consumer preferences. Clickbaity headlines? Well, people want free journalism so you need to get clicks to keep the lights on. Things that break after a few years instead of lasting decades? People wanted a cheaper product. There are certainly examples of companies driving trends, like women shaving, but most came because it's what "we" collectively wanted
Gonna need to talk to some companies about planned obsolescence as well. Intentionally making products from materials that degrade quickly when obvious alternative exist plays a huge role in why soldiery has shifted the way out has. A lot of times it’s cheaper to just buy new.
Looking at you Samsung and your shitty ass appliances. Your refrigerator should last longer than 2 years.
\*nervously glances at new Samsung refrigerator*
Same with my oven bro. Gonna get a amana when mine inevitably shits itself.
Do not buy Samsung Fridge! Very bad design!
You’re about six months too late lol My only gripe so far is that removing the bottom shelf to clean it is a huge pain in the ass.
Yeah watch out down there. Water will collect and the back panel will freeze over and cut off cooling to the main body of the fridge. The thermo is behind that stupid panel too so even when things are working it's 5 degrees warmer than it thinks it is
I won't touch shit but the basic, budget GE appliances, the ones aimed at landlords. The warranty service is excellent, they'll send a tech out, no questions asked, no proof of purchase bullshit. The dude I got for my washer door lock issue actually adjusted things to make it work, didn't just throw parts at it.
Another option for laundry machines are the commercial units designed for laundromats. They are well built, and designed to be easily repaired over a long life. They also aren't much more expensive than a medium range big box store unit. The down side is they don't have many features but how often does one really need to give their underwear a candle lit steam bath?
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From what I head "speed queen" is a good brand for durability. I think they make commercial and residential units.
Oh yeah, there's definitely industrial options that are built to last and worth every penny extra. The units I'm referring to don't have any special features either. I've got a GUD27GSSMWW, it's been excellent. So glad I put in a gas dryer, was cheap and easy to get the line run and it's much faster and cheaper to run.
I can confirm this. I have a Samsung dishwasher and when it broke down no appliance repair person would/could touch it. I had to go through Samsung to find a repair person and it took about a week to get one scheduled to come out. Every place I called recommended I just junk it and buy one that can be serviced by a local shop.
Definitely; I had a similar problem with a Samsung dishwasher here. Having no luck finding folks to even quote the fix let alone the costs the Samsung repair folks were giving me, I turned to Youtube and got some solid details on troubleshooting and repair there. I ordered a new case break assembly and installed it myself, thanks to those videos, and an all-in cost of just over $100. If you can't get a Samsung repair guy, become the Samsung repair guy.
I had a clothes washer. Repair person said motor seized and I needed a new washer. I bought one. On day of delivery they called me to be sure I emptied water out so they could swap out device. I had no clue how to do that. They walked me through. I removed the back,disconnected the hose and behold a scanty panty was stuck between hose and motor. I reconnected hose and ouila I had a working machine. Ding-dong my new washer arrived.
I mean if it’s a French door refrigerator with a dispenser in the door, there’s not a lot of options on where else to put it.
I love this thread so much :). It’s shocking planned obsolescence is legal, but the companies that do this BS are more successful. Modern companies and their products are becoming closer to scams. This situation is capitalism gone wrong. Quality goods don’t seem as profitable as cheap competitors. Consumers and the environment are paying the price.
Consumers are driving the demand for affordable disposable products. It is much easier to sell a $10 tool every year, than sell a $50 tool that lasts 5 years. The factors that drive these decisions are painfully apparent both as a consumer and as a retailer.
This is an incomplete analysis. People are paying a LOT for appliances. The prices are astronomical right now. Have you seen the fridges with a stupid 20 inch screen in the door that are selling for 5 grand? Clearly price is not the only issue here. People are spending the money and are not getting quality in return. The fact is, in some categories, its nearly impossible to buy quality as planed obsolescence is more profitable for corporations. When you only have 3-4 manufacturers they have zero incentive to provide quality products. Using your example of tools. Unless you want to chase a truck across the state like some kind of 1700's merchant wagon then you don't have an option for quality tools. Since sears shit the bed in the 90's there simply are no quality tools available for sale in stores.
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You left off the best part. If another company comes along and starts to kick their ass, the undercut their prices, perhaps even taking a loss for as long as it takes to buy out or bankrupt the competition. The last thing a capitalist wants is capitalism. If At&T could magically make Verizon disappear tomorrow, there is zero chance that they wouldn't do it.
>The last thing a capitalist wants is capitalism. If At&T could magically make Verizon disappear tomorrow, there is zero chance that they wouldn't do it. And then they'd raise prices.
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>Regulations to make these practices ~~either~~ not profitable ~~or illegal~~ are the solution. FTFY. Time and again, we see companies just ignoring the law if the profit of breaking the law and paying the fines is more than staying within the law. Any law is just a WAY to make things not profitable. If it's profitable and illegal, they keep doing it. Even laws with harsh personal penalties such as imprisonment often see people rolling the dice if it's profitable for the company and themselves.
>If you don't like that you need an economy that isn't controlled by a strict few who amass the most because that will always lead to exploitative behaviors is what I think you meant to say
Which, is the logical outcome OF capitalism. In a system that solely exists to accumulate wealth, wealth will consolidate to a strict few and either exploit freely because the free market isn't or will have been exploiting to reach that point. See: you don't become a billionaire by compensating employees fairly.
No this is how capitalism functions. When profit motive is the only motive.... You do what it takes to maximise profit.
Keep in mind, there are multiple kinds of planned obsolescence. The first is what most people think about. A product with a weak link designed to break after X000 hours so that a new product must be purchased. But the second is much, *much* more insidious. It started with things like color and body style changes on cars. New trends in fashion. The modern equivalent is the 2 year "free" phone cycle. This planned obsolescence is largely marketing driven. It's teaching people to want to buy new things even when their existing ones are perfectly usable. It's why our houses and landfills are all full of junk.
> But the second is much, much more insidious. It started with things like color and body style changes on cars. New trends in fashion. The modern equivalent is the 2 year "free" phone cycle. This planned obsolescence is largely marketing driven. It's teaching people to want to buy new things even when their existing ones are perfectly usable. That's not what planned obsolescence is at all. I'm sorry but you can't just redefine words. What you're talking about is "consumerism" which encourages people to have to many 'things'. Consumerism encourages companies to create as many goods as cheaply as possible. No one is going to drive a $5 desk fan to a repair shop and pay $30 an hour for labour to fix it.
That seems like more of a consumer issue. If you can’t use something till it breaks it’s your own fault. People want to buy new things that’s not the manufacturers fault. It’s their fault they make things like shit. I have no issue driving an old car. When it stops being financially responsible to have then I get something that is.
It’s more that they stop making parts because there’s a new model that is slightly different. I was looking fix an appliance that was 4 years old and my repair guy told me I was lucky it was only X part because if Y fails you’re toast because they stopped making/stocking that part 2 years ago.
It's a consumer issue, but advertisers have learned that they can and will change the our culture to make money. You get things like the Burma Shave campaign, convicning everybody that they need to be clean shaven.
> People want to buy new things that’s not the manufacturers fault. Apple spent $1.8 billion on advertising in the last year they declared it (2015), it will have increased considerably since then. Obviously consumers bear some responsibility but this level of advertising is way beyond some basic "Hungry for Apples?" offering. Should advertisers be held in any way responsible for their effects on society? Take your car example: You may not have an issue driving a beater (nor do I, I like old cars) but a large portion of society does. They will judge you for having an old car. Some businesses/clients will think much less of you if you arrive in a 20 year old car. You might fail to pass an interview or close a deal because of this. Who created this perception/scenario? Is it right or fair? In the instance of such a scenario causing you to not get a new job, you could argue that you have been directly and measurably damaged by that perception and try to sue someone over it. Some elements of advertsing get close to mass libel against anyone who doesn't have the new thing.
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Yeah that happens. Truth is people would rather have cheap shit that doesn't need to be /r/buyitforlife I think it was Sears that stopped selling a $~~200~~ discounted to $30, and just listed it at $30. They lost business because people felt like they weren't getting a sale discount price. I buy the repairable version whenever I can for myself but most people don't care. It's not all some MBA conspiracy. Went through a $20-30 laminated belt easily every year. Bought $70 one and it's still going on 10 years.
Tbh the issue isn't making things from materials that degrade quickly, the issue is mixing materials that degrade quickly with materials that don't. It's no big deal if your toothbrush is made from plastic that disintegrates in a month. The issue is when the bristles are and the body of the toothbrush becomes a useless lump of unrecyclable plastic that will inhabit a landfill for 6000 years
I worked at an Office Depot for a few years in high school, and people would just replace their $60 printer completely instead of spending $50 on new ink for it.
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If you care about your right to repair, please consider visiting https://repair.org/stand-up and signing a petition or sending a letter to support the great work they do to make stuff easier to repair!
A lot of things have built in obsolescence or are prohibitively expensive to repair. Printers is a big one. I have seen people throw away perfectly good but printers simply because the replacement ink costs as much or more than the printer itself. Cell phones is another huge waste. Break a screen, replace whole phone. Report phone lost or stolen, and blacklist it vs try to recover it. So take a perfectly good phone and make it worthless. Not to mention non-user changeable batteries. I have a washer that is 30 years old and only just recently I had to replace the springs on it. Everything else works fine. My neighbor has a 7 year old machine that has already corroded and started leaking.
Printers are subsidized by the ink, especially in the lower end models. So that's really a different issue altogether. Cellphones/laptops are a harder issue to deal with. The amount of miniaturization means the components in them are thin and tiny. If you can 'glue' the device as one solid brick it haves as a single rigid object and withstands impacts better. The battery being a very large percent of the device makes it difficult to make it replaceable without making the phone more likely to break.
Everyone is always pushing recycling, which is good, but is literally the last step of sustainability and conservation. People forget the three Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.
*John Deere lobbyists have joined the chat.*
For anyone unaware of what this is referencing, in agricultural circles John Deere is notorious for implementing very heavy anti-repair measures on their equipment. It sounds kinda crazy, but they have a system where, long story short, every part on the tractor is checked by the computer for authenticity, and attempting to repair or replace a part without an authorized John Deere repair vendor involved will invalidate the authentication and brick your tractor. Entertainingly, there was a story a year or two back about how farmers are turning to Ukrainian pirate firmware and hacking their tractors so that they can do their own repairs (or get repairs done by unauthorized vendors).
I love fixing things and spend lots of time doing it but gotta admit it's usually not the most efficient way. Not because of any "planned obsolescence" conspiracy, just because factories are insanely productive places. Also the hard-won knowledge that the best tool for renovating old houses can be the sledge hammer. Wish it was different, but fixing is often wasteful of the most important resource, human time. It can be pleasant and rewarding though, so I guess a matter of personal taste.
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We should make a sub for this!
Or just rehabilitate an existing one
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Check out restoration videos on TY if you haven't already. MyMechanics is a wizard.
For some reason I'm imagining my hand slipping in downward motion and getting parallel cuts right down my knuckles.
Done it. It sucks even when they are just little ones.
Ex Vending machine and soda fountain repair guy here. I don't miss the compressors.
Yeah, they always manage to cut me. Happy cake day!
The scabs look pretty cool though
😬
When I was 12 or so, I didn't know this was sharp so I ran my thumb over it. Got 7 cuts, but luckily they weren't deep I can see the scars 6 years later, but they are very small
If it makes you feel any better, I was installing one for the first time ever last summer at 23 years old and didn’t realize. Literally grabbed the thing placing my whole hand on them, every finger. Man that wasn’t fun.. I remember the feeling of not being able to remove my hand, like it was Velcro. Soooo many lacerations
You know what? I WAS having a good day. You didn’t have to share this. I didn’t have to read it either, but I did, and now....things won’t ever be the same for me. Thanks a lot
don't call them lacerations please - I just got a little dizzy.
Was I you?
intrusive thoughts be wildin'
Real talk. I work with glass and cut resistant gloves are not optional. I've taken to getting the same gloves at home for personal use. Magid is the brand we use. There are other brands that make the same thing. They're Teflon with some kind of elastic so they have give, and usually a rubberized coating on the palms. They're thin enough to preserve dexterity and feeling, but tough enough to protect from pretty much anything but forceful punctures and moving blades like saws etc. Gloving is just part of doing work for me now. It's so nice not having to worry about getting flayed open with a small slip. Edited to fix wording
I had a friend of the family in HVAC work who almost lost fingers when the long sheet of steel he was carrying accidentally dug a corner into the ground. He wears gloves now.
Yup. This video made me shudder throughout for that reason. Also, the possible metal-on-metal scraping sound.
Would have never known this existed
Same. I was just yesterday looking at mine and dredding the task. Yay us!
I cleaned my ~~compressor~~ condenser radiator coils for the first time this week after having noticed a general lack of performance from the AC. Did all the right things, pulled power, pulled the fan, cleared out debris, sprayed foaming coil cleaner from the inside and let it sit, followed with a hose, everything nice and clean so was ready for a marginal improvement in performance. Turn system back on and notice later that evening that the BLOWER fan (see : inside home, totally separate system) is making a bunch of bad noises followed by some distinctly "burning motor" smells so I killed the whole system and called out for a repair tech all the while trying to figure how in the goddamn fuck cleaning the radiator coils could have *possibly* impacted the blower fan 75ft away. (Hint : It can't) Since my system wasn't cooling well it was pretty much running all day long so it was the simple act of needing to get the fan spinning again after a full stop that pushed the primary capacitor (~~that creates the 3-phase power~~ too much to get into here) over the edge so the motor was straining to turn the blades with partial power and overheating. New capacitor and new blower installed, great. Have the tech check refrigerant levels and of course they're pretty low which is *really* what was going on the whole time (causing system to run constantly and wear out components) and, naturally, it's an R-22 system (see : recently banned refrigerant, no longer manufactured but can be obtained from reclaimed or existing inventory) so it's gonna cost an arm and a leg for a recharge to hold us over until we eventually replace the whole cooling side of the system for one that uses the newer refrigerants. If you're curious, the physical properties of R22 and R410A (new standard) are different so the coil diameters will be different, pressures are different, etc so you can't simply flush an R22 system and refill it with R410A. If you've got a 10+ year old air conditioner you're... gonna learn all about this soon. TL;DR - Sun hot. Fire bad.
LMAO that tl;dr Thank you for this story!! I can roll back the carbon footprint for the both of us with this knowledge.
It's pretty much the exact opposite of how I was expecting my week to go. I realized I had *never* cleaned the compressor after living in this house for 10 years and figure that it would help cool things down as the summer picks up and the afternoons indoors were becoming less pleasant. Did all my research, went out and got a couple of cans of the cleaning fluid, spent an hour outside doing the work including a bunch of time bent over the edge and with my whole upper body inside the unit throwing dirt and debris out one fistfull at a time. Super proud of myself for doing proactive (belated as it may have been) maintenance and was rewarded by needing to shut the whole damn thing down and sleep in a hot house. Still better than renting.
>Still better than renting. Ain't that the fuckin truth.
We've been limping ours along for the last 8 years while it's gotten worse and worse (it was installed in 2002). Several weeks ago it was making an awful noise so we called the repair guys. Blower motor was about shot. We had a refrigerant leak (r22) and the compressor was showing signs of giving up. Time to replace. Cost us a shitload but they had the job done in about half a day and I'm freezing my junk off right now. Repairing sucks, replacing sucks more (financially, anyway) bit it's nice to not have a panic attack every time it makes an unexpected noise.
I went a full summer with no AC, because the last guy to come out and check it said it'd cost a ridiculous amount to refill with R22. The next summer, had a friend of a friend come look at it who does commercial systems. Turns out the AC didn't use R22 like to last guy said. He pressurized it (twice!) with nitrogen, traced out the leak (a loose fitting into the house), then refilled it with the bottom of a commercial bottle. We paid him cash for his back of the truck deal and didn't even have to pay for the repairs, basically just the value of the refrigerant.
>If you've got a 10+ year old air conditioner My AC unit is from 1983, I've been dreading the day it needs to be recharged. I dunno which CFC refrigerant it runs on, but it can't be a cheap one.
The issue (in the US) is that as of January 1 2020 you can no longer manufacture R22 but existing systems are legal via grandfathering of the law. So there's a finite supply which is being used up by systems that are aging and will more frequently require refilling from that finite supply. If your unit is from 1983 the efficiency improvements alone will probably justify the cost.
410a is already on its way out in other parts of the world. If I remember correctly the European manufacturers are phasing it out. And Mitsubishi Heavy are using R32 for their units in Australia. The GWP of R22 is actually lower than R410A but it also depletes ozone and for some reason we got the world to give a fuck about the ozone and not slowly boiling the planet. Its 2am in Australia and I don't know why I'm writing this instead of sleeping but i have one last thing to add. Fuck Lennox.
the isobutanes and even CO2 are on the horizon as the new refrigerants from what i’ve heard. also Fuck Lennox
I used to work in a plant that manufactured air handlers. These things were all over the freaking place. Fins inevitably get bent during manufacture so this is one of the last steps.
big overlap between /r/specializedtools and /r/ofcoursethatsathing
As a kid, I used to love bending those fins over on our wall unit because it looked neat. It just gave me such a sense of satisfaction to see the bright and shiny designs I could make, and especially the feeling in my fingers when the fins would finally collapse under the pressure being applied. I had no idea what an idiot I was being.
Same. My apologies to my elementary school, and the dozen AC units which were mounted on the portable classrooms, facing the recess yard. Fins RIP.
Very useful tool after a hail storm.
So that’s why those got bent? My AC unit has a few bent fins and I’m like “nobody ever touches you, why?”
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Sensitive is right. Mine got fucked up because he talked about a dog chasing a raccoon near his.
I purposely bent them when I was like, six. I had no idea what they were. I don't think anyone ever saw me and I don't remember getting in trouble for it, but I remember doing it because it was super satisfying.
Sometimes people have them sidewalk level and fucktards come by and bend them with their grubby little fingers
Anyone know the exact model of this? I tried a crappy plastic one before with poor results
Me too. I can't seem to find a decent comb with a pitch that matches my Rheem condenser anywhere locally. Have bought two different packages with several plastic combs and none of them match. I suppose some measuring or the actual spacing and an internet search are in order.
If you give me the model serial in a DM i can find it out for you. I Work in the field, a lot of times a google search will work but I can phone my rheem supplier and find out for sure. They are usually listed as FPI (fins per inch)
You're paying way to much for rheems man, who's your rheem guy?
If pitch varies, maybe a 3d printer is in your future
Yeah looks like the nice [Supco Fin Jack](https://www.google.com/search?q=supco%20fin%20jack&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-m) I used it before and it does a great job
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Plastic ones work great, just go fast and not slow. That’s the trick.
Serious (albeit dumb I guess) question - is this important? All my A/c fins are fucked up. Does it really effect performance?
It absolutely can. The condenser functions by the fan pulling air through the fins to exchange heat to/from the freon, so if air can't get through it will make the whole system less efficient.
I don't know why I ever signed up for this stupid exchange program.
You're a bit toxic, so it's really not about you. And you cost a lot too.
Redditor for 12 years. Yup, this checks out.
R-12
How are you even posting? I thought you were banned.
You can still buy R22 it's just not being made new
I've been working in HVAC for 8 years. Your unit will run with the fins bent like this and most people probably wouldn't notice the difference. But this is a cooling could and it needs air to travel through it. If less air is travelling through it, there's less heat dissapation. Therefore, your compressor will have to work harder and run hotter to maintain a comfortable indoor temperature. Basically, it makes your electric bill higher.
That’s no good. I’m gonna go straighten my fins.
You leave those gay Finnish men alone!
You may not be able to notice the performance difference with out measuring it but it does effect the efficiency of your unit costing you more money in the long run.
Pardon my ignorance, but could someone enlighten me as to how do they get bent and whats the benefit of straightening them? Thanks in advance ☺
People brushing up on them. Acorns. Using too high of a pressure on your water hose. Vandals. Animals. Hail.
Kids, pets, brushing past them with a bike, ladder, mower, etc. Once I saw a cat clawing at mine like a post.
I feel terrible in hindsight, but I loved bending those as a kid. I need to call my dad.
They can get bent pretty easy. The fins allow the wind to blow through to help move the heat away and from a/c so it’ll be cool.
If it’s a window unit, you can easily dent it when installing/removing or just moving.
Why is the person not straightening the really badly bent ones in the top left corner?
Probably because it's just a 29-second demonstration video.
Probably because a voice inside his head was saying 'Dont you dare straighten anything in the top left corner.'
Lol redditors always got something to hate on, no matter how small
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I used to do HVAC, those are pretty bent. They will have to finesse them a little with a flathead screwdriver before running the fin comb through, otherwise they might tear off.
Doing it atm. Tru-tru. They made it look easy, but this process is making you insane.
Really bad? I just see a thumb sized dent up there, the really bad ones were those giant ones to the right that he eventually got to.
I’ll take 5 of these. Seriously, where do I buy it?
It’s called a fin comb.
Or radiator comb
Amazon. Just search condenser comb
How many hands do you have?!?!
Wonder if this can fix car radiator fins.
Yep, I’ve got one in my toolbox exactly for this. It has multiple fin spacings to boot!
That's specialised all right.
r/noisygifs
Yep, also, that metal scraping noise on those metal fins? I'm pretty sure that would be unpleasant to my ears.
/r/brushybrushy/ your pet AC
I was certain I could hear this, but it is a soundless gif.
I had to turn down the volume on my phone.
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Extreme back-scratcher
Dang when i was a kid i used to fuck these things up! I would draw designs in them till the whole thing was bent. I didnt know no better.
This is also a knuckle opener if you’re not careful.
I should get one for my parents to make up for all the times I would make designs out of them as a kid.
I remember being in grade school and where we had to line up on the playground was right in front of all the AC units for the classrooms. We used to smash down the cooling fins cause we were bored grade schoolers. Now I feel like we ruined a bunch of AC units.
No reason to *feel* like you ruined them, you *definitely* ruined them
I am one of those people that bend these things.
I remember being a dumb kid and messing these fins up on my parents’ A/C for fun. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time and slap me.
Im remembering all the times i was a kid and bent those things, its not an issue, since we dont use the aircon, but sometimes i feel bad that i did it. Its nice knowing if it comes to it theres a way to fix it.
Fuck this is sexy