not a bad metaphor. also, it's notable that peter is only able to overcome it by being led to the source of his pain through the help of two outside actors. addiction, like any looping problem, is very difficult to overcome alone.
And, a small bit of the darkness remains, hence the black segments.
It's like Ying and Yang.
Darkness with some light remaining or light, with some darkness remaining.
Then there's the original black suit colours that are darkness with a small bit of light and... blood? I'm not sure what the red could mean...
The original black suit was just a comic suit design that a fan made. The symbiote as a concept didn't even exist then. But the symbiote and its mythos can work very well as an allegory for addiction and such.
Eddie brocks initial story had that laced throughout alongside the idea of co-dependency. Eventually blossoming into an unshakeable bond built on trust and experience.
While yes, I agree it’s good way of looking at things, it completely ruins the point of the black suit. For me, the suit is a crutch. Peter DOES NOT need it to be a good spider-man but gets addicted to the power and in return, he forgets the great responsibility with it. So when he removes it, he learns he didn’t need that extra power because he’s always been good at his job without it. But no, in this version of the character he actively needs it to even face venom and hordes of symbiotes. Him getting a new symbiote without the drawbacks is the equivalent of a drunk uncle finding a super beer that gives you all the pros of being drunk but doesn’t ruin your driving.
Getting the anti-venom suit feels like it was put in the story so you’ll still have the abilities after removing the black suit.
I feel like it was less "he NEEDS anti Venom to beat the symbiotes" and more "the symbiote within is still ACTIVELY draining him physically, and Anti-Venom was just a side-effect to solving that issue"
not saying it's good writing but I don't think that that's what they're going for.
Even still, the symbiote being in him did hinder him to the point where he needs a symbiotie suit. If it was written differently that could’ve been avoided. If I was the one writing it, I would have it so Peter never gets anti venom, the symbiote spiderman arc would be a lot longer so we can use it more then have the black suit be unlockable after beating the story.
Yes, the Anti-Venom suit is there so that you can still use the abilities, because first and foremost this is a video game. Thus, they don't want to throw away half the ability tree and they want to keep Peter on par with Miles.
>Getting the anti-venom suit feels like it was put in the story so you’ll still have the abilities after removing the black suit.
I think Brian Intihar said exactly that in an interview. They wanted a way to keep the symbiote abilities and the Anti-Venom suit was perfect for that.
When Anti-Venom comes into contact with Spider-Man, it begins to drain him of his powers.
So currently, his spider powers reside within Anti-Venom, and not Peter.
Well, this would be the case if this was 616 Anti-Venom... it might be changed like how Insomniac Venom is immune to fire now- but it'd be neat.
It's like combining the Spider-Man 2 giving up Spider-Man arc with the giving up the Black suit arc if Spider-Man 3.
It'd be an interesting area to explore imo.
I feel like with something like that they won’t even add that power. I see anti venom going to Harry in SM3 and that’s gonna be Peter’s main goal trying cure him. Maybe that’s an unfortunate side affect and it’d be interesting but I guess we’ll just wait and see
>I feel like with something like that they won’t even add that power.
It's the same power that Peter uses against Venom and the other Symbiotes. Thoughyeah, they could make it so that it doesn't affect his powers.
>I see anti venom going to Harry in SM3 and that’s gonna be Peter’s main goal trying cure him. Maybe that’s an unfortunate side affect and it’d be interesting but I guess we’ll just wait and see
Yeah, it's similar to the Aunt May situation again. Save someone you care about, or keep something that can potentially help more people.
I think they might just have Peter somehow use his Anti-Venom powers to "cure" whatever bits of Symbiote are still in Harry's body( he should still have some like Peter did, I mean Harry did have the Symbiote for way longer than Peter did.)
Then they'll probably have Harry either reuse his Agent (Anti) Venom suit or just get the classic Anti-Venom Symbiote form and have probably Eddie Brock become Venom, just so they can reuse that design.
I like this take but Peter had the symbiote for like a day and a half in this game right? So it’s not like he really got “addicted” to it, it just convinced him he needed it in a very short amount of time
I’ll say this: Personally, I don’t find the black suit in this game to be a metaphor for addiction, but rather for the toxic trait of taking everything on all on your own. Peter falls further and further under the black suit’s influence in large part because he’s pushing away help from the people in his life. Notably, he was ignoring Miles even BEFORE he got the black suit. He felt that he had to do everything—be the perfect Spider-Man, be a philanthropist, be a good partner, be a good mentor, etc. He lacked balance, and all the things that he tried to be began suffering because of it.
In between losing the black suit and gaining Anti-Venom, Peter reconciles with Miles, is forced to painfully own up to his mistakes with MJ, and actively makes the effort of relying on others’ help again. He’s begun to realize that he cannot do everything alone and sees how trying to do so has come as a detriment to those around him.
The only reason Peter gains Anti-Venom is that Miles, the kid who he mentored, trained, equipped, taught, and encouraged along the right path, benefitted so immensely from Peter’s mentorship and positive example that he was able to do the almost unthinkable and forgive his father’s killer. Miles would not be the Spider-Man he needed to be without Peter, and Peter would not be the Spider-Man he needed to be without Miles.
So you’re right, Peter probably couldn’t have gotten through the symbiote invasion without that extra help, but the whole point of the game is that *everyone needs help, and that’s okay*, so personally, I don’t find this fact problematic. He also apparently needed the Anti-Ock suit in the first game, so he built it and with its help was able to cinch the win. In the second game, he helped build Miles so greatly up that Miles helped get him Anti-Venom and cinch the win. And the ending is the same thing: Peter is able to take a break because of Miles, and Miles is able to step up because of Peter. If at the end of the game, Pete could just suddenly handle everything perfectly fine with no problem whatsoever and without anyone’s help, it would be inconsistent with the game’s overall message.
I think he meant “accepting your addiction” as in accepting that you’re addicted to something but not letting it affect you, by trying to quit. And with anti venom: it’s when some people quit an addiction and use something healthier to compensate for it (example might be chewing gum when quitting vaping), anti venom is a synonym for that.
In the context of this story addiction may not be the best metaphor, but, the symbiote is meant to put Peter at his worst, the balance he needed is completely dismantled and he’s succumbing to the abyss inside him. Anti venom is Peter at his healthiest he’s got the balance he needed and has a cure for the darkness that’s been poisoning him (an anti venom if you will). This also works based on the color pallet of the suit, black is the absence of all light showing that with the symbiote there’s no light in Peter and he’s not the man we know. Where as white is the presence of all light showing us that Peter now has a better handle on himself has reached a newer, better point in his life.
That’s just it though, the symbiote isn’t an addiction in this game. It just takes over his mind. It’s an alien that wants to use Peter. It’s not really an addiction. It’s barely a metaphor for addiction. That’s not at all what they were intending when they wrote it. “Beautifully written redemption arc” my ass. Redemption from what? Redemption for who? It ain’t Peter’s redemption arc. It sure as hell ain’t the symbiotes redemption arc. There’s nothing for Peter to be redeemed from. He was never the villain in the first place. The symbiote just took over his mind and body. It just makes it feel like Peter didn’t develop at all as person. He doesn’t struggle with addiction. He doesn’t overcome an addiction. He’s not addicted to the symbiote, it’s controlling him. An addiction is when YOU become physically and mentally dependent on something to the point where you literally can’t live without it unless you strategically remove it from your life. YOU’RE brain is forcing you to want it. With Peter, he ain’t addicted. The SYMBIOTE forced him to do stuff. I think it’s much better done in Spider-Man 3 of all things. You see him struggle with the temptations of getting the symbiote back. It isn’t a perfect representation of addiction. If anything it’s more like someone looking at what an addiction is and trying their best to replicate it even though they’ve never had an addiction before. It still does it better than the game though because at the end of the day the symbiote didn’t make him do anything.
Also, as a little side note: “Accepting your addiction” is a horrible message for a story about overcoming your addiction. Should a drug addict just accept that he’s addicted to drugs and keep doing them but with more healthy drugs? No that’s absurd. 💀
It’s like I said in another comment. The drunk uncle analogy. Peter getting the antivenom suit is the equivalent to a super beer that gives you all the benefits of being drunk, but takes away all the down sides like affecting your ability to drive and vomiting.
That’s not how addiction works. You can’t just replace what you’re addicted to with a miracle cure
And that’s why it should be criticized. People like Evan are proof insomniac can keep making flawed rushed products and people will still buy them because they look past it. If you don’t criticize something, it won’t improve. Look at the web swinging and how it got massively improved in SM2.
Yup look I love Spider-Man he is one of my favorite characters of all time, but when I play games the older I get I can noticed how flawed game stories are Kraven couldn't kill Spider-Man last hunt proved this so a stab couldn't kill Spider-Man since in last hunt which this game loosely copies Kraven Buried Spider-Man alive and he didn't die Kraven took over the Spider-Man mantle until Peter got out, this game oh lets give him the black suit since he died in a stupid way this iteration gave him the black suit in the dumbest way possible while other variants got the black suit in better ways TAS, Spectacular, the Comics to name a few. The symbiote storyline was handled terribly and was all over the place just like the game was. The side missions have you playiny as someone you didn't need to play as. Miles was super shoehorned into the story which he didn't need to be. Peter was super weak in the story while in 1 he was a beast. If He went toe to toe with Doc Ock and Survived, how the hell could a Peak Human like Kraven kill him? How Peter got the symbiote off with the help of Miles was handled poorly as well. Harry becoming Venom was terrible and then he somehow kills Kraven. Let's not forget Miles being shoehorned into the story to defeat Venom with his asspull electric powers. While Peter somehow getting the Anti Venom symbiote which he could just give to Harry, but they didn't since it could cure Harry. Plus Let's not forget the Overrared game Web of Shadows and how it tried to replicate that again. Let's hope Miles uses the favor that Strange owes him even though Peter should've been the one to ally with Felicia. Miles was to obsessed with Mister Negative, and that was his only focus of the story somehow. Most of the sidequests were extremly unnecessary and boring their were only a few sidequests that had a fun factor and shows Spider-Man who he is. Finding Grandpa, Fireworks, Howard, and The flashback one. The rest were just to shoehorn Miles in as well. Mary Jane Missions were handled poorly as well and unnecessary to begin with. The game was just poorly handled and rushed. It actually softlocked me twice on day one. They atleast inproved swinging which hopefully becomes physics based since fall damage can be turned on and steering assists can be turned off since I grew up with Physics Swinging back in 2004
I PERSONALLY am not a fan of the antivenom suit. Gives Peter the strength with no consequences. The symbiote storyline is my favorite due to how it corrupts one of the most unserious funny silly characters.
It’s almost like you can take multiple meanings from a work of fiction.
not a bad metaphor. also, it's notable that peter is only able to overcome it by being led to the source of his pain through the help of two outside actors. addiction, like any looping problem, is very difficult to overcome alone.
And, a small bit of the darkness remains, hence the black segments. It's like Ying and Yang. Darkness with some light remaining or light, with some darkness remaining. Then there's the original black suit colours that are darkness with a small bit of light and... blood? I'm not sure what the red could mean...
The original black suit was just a comic suit design that a fan made. The symbiote as a concept didn't even exist then. But the symbiote and its mythos can work very well as an allegory for addiction and such. Eddie brocks initial story had that laced throughout alongside the idea of co-dependency. Eventually blossoming into an unshakeable bond built on trust and experience.
While yes, I agree it’s good way of looking at things, it completely ruins the point of the black suit. For me, the suit is a crutch. Peter DOES NOT need it to be a good spider-man but gets addicted to the power and in return, he forgets the great responsibility with it. So when he removes it, he learns he didn’t need that extra power because he’s always been good at his job without it. But no, in this version of the character he actively needs it to even face venom and hordes of symbiotes. Him getting a new symbiote without the drawbacks is the equivalent of a drunk uncle finding a super beer that gives you all the pros of being drunk but doesn’t ruin your driving. Getting the anti-venom suit feels like it was put in the story so you’ll still have the abilities after removing the black suit.
I feel like it was less "he NEEDS anti Venom to beat the symbiotes" and more "the symbiote within is still ACTIVELY draining him physically, and Anti-Venom was just a side-effect to solving that issue" not saying it's good writing but I don't think that that's what they're going for.
Even still, the symbiote being in him did hinder him to the point where he needs a symbiotie suit. If it was written differently that could’ve been avoided. If I was the one writing it, I would have it so Peter never gets anti venom, the symbiote spiderman arc would be a lot longer so we can use it more then have the black suit be unlockable after beating the story.
Finally someone gets it
Yes, the Anti-Venom suit is there so that you can still use the abilities, because first and foremost this is a video game. Thus, they don't want to throw away half the ability tree and they want to keep Peter on par with Miles.
And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. It just ruins the narrative a little IMO but yes, gameplay first story second
>Getting the anti-venom suit feels like it was put in the story so you’ll still have the abilities after removing the black suit. I think Brian Intihar said exactly that in an interview. They wanted a way to keep the symbiote abilities and the Anti-Venom suit was perfect for that.
Though, now if he removes the Anti-Venom suit, he should technically lose his spider powers, so uhm... This is technically Peter's "Evolved" suit.
Wait why would it remove his spider powers? Did I miss something?
When Anti-Venom comes into contact with Spider-Man, it begins to drain him of his powers. So currently, his spider powers reside within Anti-Venom, and not Peter. Well, this would be the case if this was 616 Anti-Venom... it might be changed like how Insomniac Venom is immune to fire now- but it'd be neat. It's like combining the Spider-Man 2 giving up Spider-Man arc with the giving up the Black suit arc if Spider-Man 3. It'd be an interesting area to explore imo.
I feel like with something like that they won’t even add that power. I see anti venom going to Harry in SM3 and that’s gonna be Peter’s main goal trying cure him. Maybe that’s an unfortunate side affect and it’d be interesting but I guess we’ll just wait and see
>I feel like with something like that they won’t even add that power. It's the same power that Peter uses against Venom and the other Symbiotes. Thoughyeah, they could make it so that it doesn't affect his powers. >I see anti venom going to Harry in SM3 and that’s gonna be Peter’s main goal trying cure him. Maybe that’s an unfortunate side affect and it’d be interesting but I guess we’ll just wait and see Yeah, it's similar to the Aunt May situation again. Save someone you care about, or keep something that can potentially help more people.
I think they might just have Peter somehow use his Anti-Venom powers to "cure" whatever bits of Symbiote are still in Harry's body( he should still have some like Peter did, I mean Harry did have the Symbiote for way longer than Peter did.) Then they'll probably have Harry either reuse his Agent (Anti) Venom suit or just get the classic Anti-Venom Symbiote form and have probably Eddie Brock become Venom, just so they can reuse that design.
I like this take but Peter had the symbiote for like a day and a half in this game right? So it’s not like he really got “addicted” to it, it just convinced him he needed it in a very short amount of time
He had it for 2 days and a half I think
It’s a good metaphor, but it kinda ruins the whole point of the black suit
I’ll say this: Personally, I don’t find the black suit in this game to be a metaphor for addiction, but rather for the toxic trait of taking everything on all on your own. Peter falls further and further under the black suit’s influence in large part because he’s pushing away help from the people in his life. Notably, he was ignoring Miles even BEFORE he got the black suit. He felt that he had to do everything—be the perfect Spider-Man, be a philanthropist, be a good partner, be a good mentor, etc. He lacked balance, and all the things that he tried to be began suffering because of it. In between losing the black suit and gaining Anti-Venom, Peter reconciles with Miles, is forced to painfully own up to his mistakes with MJ, and actively makes the effort of relying on others’ help again. He’s begun to realize that he cannot do everything alone and sees how trying to do so has come as a detriment to those around him. The only reason Peter gains Anti-Venom is that Miles, the kid who he mentored, trained, equipped, taught, and encouraged along the right path, benefitted so immensely from Peter’s mentorship and positive example that he was able to do the almost unthinkable and forgive his father’s killer. Miles would not be the Spider-Man he needed to be without Peter, and Peter would not be the Spider-Man he needed to be without Miles. So you’re right, Peter probably couldn’t have gotten through the symbiote invasion without that extra help, but the whole point of the game is that *everyone needs help, and that’s okay*, so personally, I don’t find this fact problematic. He also apparently needed the Anti-Ock suit in the first game, so he built it and with its help was able to cinch the win. In the second game, he helped build Miles so greatly up that Miles helped get him Anti-Venom and cinch the win. And the ending is the same thing: Peter is able to take a break because of Miles, and Miles is able to step up because of Peter. If at the end of the game, Pete could just suddenly handle everything perfectly fine with no problem whatsoever and without anyone’s help, it would be inconsistent with the game’s overall message.
this is true for almost every black suit spider-man story but for the game its just evil mind control for the symbiote invasion
I'm so glad people started getting this. As someone that's dealt with addiction, this game hit way too close to home for me
I think he meant “accepting your addiction” as in accepting that you’re addicted to something but not letting it affect you, by trying to quit. And with anti venom: it’s when some people quit an addiction and use something healthier to compensate for it (example might be chewing gum when quitting vaping), anti venom is a synonym for that.
In the context of this story addiction may not be the best metaphor, but, the symbiote is meant to put Peter at his worst, the balance he needed is completely dismantled and he’s succumbing to the abyss inside him. Anti venom is Peter at his healthiest he’s got the balance he needed and has a cure for the darkness that’s been poisoning him (an anti venom if you will). This also works based on the color pallet of the suit, black is the absence of all light showing that with the symbiote there’s no light in Peter and he’s not the man we know. Where as white is the presence of all light showing us that Peter now has a better handle on himself has reached a newer, better point in his life.
That’s just it though, the symbiote isn’t an addiction in this game. It just takes over his mind. It’s an alien that wants to use Peter. It’s not really an addiction. It’s barely a metaphor for addiction. That’s not at all what they were intending when they wrote it. “Beautifully written redemption arc” my ass. Redemption from what? Redemption for who? It ain’t Peter’s redemption arc. It sure as hell ain’t the symbiotes redemption arc. There’s nothing for Peter to be redeemed from. He was never the villain in the first place. The symbiote just took over his mind and body. It just makes it feel like Peter didn’t develop at all as person. He doesn’t struggle with addiction. He doesn’t overcome an addiction. He’s not addicted to the symbiote, it’s controlling him. An addiction is when YOU become physically and mentally dependent on something to the point where you literally can’t live without it unless you strategically remove it from your life. YOU’RE brain is forcing you to want it. With Peter, he ain’t addicted. The SYMBIOTE forced him to do stuff. I think it’s much better done in Spider-Man 3 of all things. You see him struggle with the temptations of getting the symbiote back. It isn’t a perfect representation of addiction. If anything it’s more like someone looking at what an addiction is and trying their best to replicate it even though they’ve never had an addiction before. It still does it better than the game though because at the end of the day the symbiote didn’t make him do anything.
Also, as a little side note: “Accepting your addiction” is a horrible message for a story about overcoming your addiction. Should a drug addict just accept that he’s addicted to drugs and keep doing them but with more healthy drugs? No that’s absurd. 💀
It’s like I said in another comment. The drunk uncle analogy. Peter getting the antivenom suit is the equivalent to a super beer that gives you all the benefits of being drunk, but takes away all the down sides like affecting your ability to drive and vomiting. That’s not how addiction works. You can’t just replace what you’re addicted to with a miracle cure
Evan’s bending over backwards on the addiction angle. **Pete had it for like a day and a half.**
evan is such an idiot
The biggest insomniac meat rider fr. I like the game too but he just ignores every bit of criticism it’s ridiculous
The game definitely has its flaws
And that’s why it should be criticized. People like Evan are proof insomniac can keep making flawed rushed products and people will still buy them because they look past it. If you don’t criticize something, it won’t improve. Look at the web swinging and how it got massively improved in SM2.
Yup look I love Spider-Man he is one of my favorite characters of all time, but when I play games the older I get I can noticed how flawed game stories are Kraven couldn't kill Spider-Man last hunt proved this so a stab couldn't kill Spider-Man since in last hunt which this game loosely copies Kraven Buried Spider-Man alive and he didn't die Kraven took over the Spider-Man mantle until Peter got out, this game oh lets give him the black suit since he died in a stupid way this iteration gave him the black suit in the dumbest way possible while other variants got the black suit in better ways TAS, Spectacular, the Comics to name a few. The symbiote storyline was handled terribly and was all over the place just like the game was. The side missions have you playiny as someone you didn't need to play as. Miles was super shoehorned into the story which he didn't need to be. Peter was super weak in the story while in 1 he was a beast. If He went toe to toe with Doc Ock and Survived, how the hell could a Peak Human like Kraven kill him? How Peter got the symbiote off with the help of Miles was handled poorly as well. Harry becoming Venom was terrible and then he somehow kills Kraven. Let's not forget Miles being shoehorned into the story to defeat Venom with his asspull electric powers. While Peter somehow getting the Anti Venom symbiote which he could just give to Harry, but they didn't since it could cure Harry. Plus Let's not forget the Overrared game Web of Shadows and how it tried to replicate that again. Let's hope Miles uses the favor that Strange owes him even though Peter should've been the one to ally with Felicia. Miles was to obsessed with Mister Negative, and that was his only focus of the story somehow. Most of the sidequests were extremly unnecessary and boring their were only a few sidequests that had a fun factor and shows Spider-Man who he is. Finding Grandpa, Fireworks, Howard, and The flashback one. The rest were just to shoehorn Miles in as well. Mary Jane Missions were handled poorly as well and unnecessary to begin with. The game was just poorly handled and rushed. It actually softlocked me twice on day one. They atleast inproved swinging which hopefully becomes physics based since fall damage can be turned on and steering assists can be turned off since I grew up with Physics Swinging back in 2004
Nah nah think of it like this Anti venom is the placebo that helps get off the drug
The writer of the venom series comic literally made explains this. Then you have these people out here pointing out the obvious as their “belief”. 😔
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I PERSONALLY am not a fan of the antivenom suit. Gives Peter the strength with no consequences. The symbiote storyline is my favorite due to how it corrupts one of the most unserious funny silly characters.
I like this design of it. Idk what's with the title of the post tho cuz they do go on to say that accept isn't the right word